In the Netherlands the socialist Joop Deb Uyl closed the mines before all other countries. In the same time he had a program to compensate for the loss. The pension fund for government workers and the national bureau for statistics was moved to the area. A new university was started. And the mines were transformed in a chemical concern. There were problems in the beginning, but they disappeared over the years. The plan worked out really well. The area is thriving. Especially because the university is doing well. It has a unique teaching method, that attracts students from all over the world.

@ciaranReal

2 күн бұрын

Ye but this would never happen in the 🇬🇧

We didn't go from coal to green energy. We had to burn our gas and now we have to import it. There was no need to crash the coal industry at the same time as manufacturing was being crashed by insane interest rates.

@tropics8407

4 күн бұрын

Not only did you crash your own coal industry you turned around and supported coal industry in foreign countries by importing their product instead 😵‍💫

@SunofYork

4 күн бұрын

@@tropics8407 Not now...

@drmodestoesq

4 күн бұрын

@@tropics8407 The imported coal was much cheaper. So coal mining was subsidized by the British taxpayer and consumer. That's why the British public voted for Thatcherism.

@gordon1201

3 күн бұрын

Won't you think of the investors that NEEDED to make ungodly profits??

@tonysheerness2427

2 күн бұрын

Labour closed more mines than the Conservatives.

Any government would have had to stop subsidizing the Coal industry and later the shipbuilding industry. Thatcher however made it into a war against the unions with devastating consequences for thousands of families. The brutality was horrifying.

@georged220

19 сағат бұрын

It was the union leaders that turned this into a "war" by deciding to oppose all pit closures .Even non-viable pits now had be kept open at the expense of the rest of us. They took miners out against their will to join their fight to remove a government democratically elected on a promise to curb union power. How was it Thatchers fault?

A humane rundown of the industry over 15 years would not only have allowed those regions to readjust but also allow other energy industries to readjust to the challenges of a Non Coal powered market....

@drmodestoesq

4 күн бұрын

That's what happens when both sides are uncompromising.

@wotireckon

3 күн бұрын

​@@drmodestoesq Yeah this was a political strategy with the sole intention of grinding the unions into the dirt.

@madcockney

3 күн бұрын

@@drmodestoesq Maggie Thatcher never had any idea of what compromise was. When it came to coal her only thought was that it was cheaper to import, so why produce. The environment never came into play. Though I thought that we had to get out of coal, the wind down should have been slower and money put into attracting companies into those areas, and money for retraining as well as significant sums for those that lost their jobs. To me Maggie Thatcher was never a good Primeminister as she lacked compassion for those in situations like the miners, and also other industries. She was good for a very select number of the population. That does not mean everything she did was wrong, but a lot of it was, especially to me as a moderate that straddles the line on Centre Left and Centre Right.

@ross.venner

Күн бұрын

​@madcockney - For Maggie Thatcher's Conservatives, it was a fight to the death, but not initially, one they sought. Ted Heath's Conservative government had been destroyed be the NUM and Arthur Scargill. When he again attempted to destroy a Conservative government they had to fight back hard. I am no supporter of Thatcher, in fact I watched her interview when she dismissed contemptuously any suggestion of a sovereign wealth fund to accumulate North Sea oil revenue, and was going to spend (squander) the windfall, I decided it was essential to emigrate. Thank god I was able to do so.

Thatcher closed the coal industry and started importing coal from Poland because of her personal grudge against the NUM. It’s true that the transition from coal as an employer was badly managed - or rather not managed at all, the ppl were just stuck on benefits - but green energy was nowhere in sight at that time.

@auldfouter8661

4 күн бұрын

Heath met with the NUM in Downing street in 1972 to try to end that era of miners strike. When he asked Mick McGahey what he wanted the communist ( party member ) McGahey said " To get rid of your bloody government ! "! So despite Heath having won a working majority just 18 months earlier McGahey thought he had the right to overthrow that government undemocratically by using the industrial muscle of one group of workers. Don't try to tell me that was moral.

@juangomezfuentes8825

2 күн бұрын

Actually is because the Polish coal is a lot lot lot cheaper. Their open mines are super efficient and the reserves were huge.

@hughjohns9110

2 күн бұрын

@@juangomezfuentes8825 it was not just for that reason. The low price of Polish coal at that time enabled her to wage war on the NUM.

There’s nothing wrong with shifting away from coal, but the sudden closing left many communities without any job opportunities was, and still is, one of the worst things thatcher did.

@marumaru6084

4 күн бұрын

Labour shut more pits you know!

@davideyres955

4 күн бұрын

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Clement%20Attlee's%20Labour%20government,Conservative)%20closed%20115%20between%201979

@andrewsmith3760

2 күн бұрын

@@marumaru6084 This is a Tory BS story, the difference was these were negotiated closure and the NUM accepted that uneconnomic pits should close. In fact there had been very little industrial action from the miners in post war Britain. There was an unofficial strike in 1969 which concerned the conditions of the Surface workers who were to old work underground. Not only were there wages lower but they were expected to do longer hours. The Strike lasted 3 weeks and involved the Yorkshire Kent and Scottish miners. The fact is Thatcher lied about the number of pits closures and it was nothing to do with economic or not.. The minutes of the meeting with Thatcher Sir Kieth Joseph Ian MacGregor the butcher of the steal industry revealed they were pla planning to close 60 pits which is what Scargle had predicted. If you want to know when credibitlity of our MPs fell in to decline the rot started in 1979 when lying distorting figures and pure greed became the norm. Well we can see product of the Thatcher legacy our privatised water is pumping raw sewage into our rivers and sea the share holders are doing fine but the customers prices have increased by 40% in real terms. The electricity supplies will be dependentdent on the Chinese building our power stations and our Gas is a cash cow for the few. When you want to make your pathetic statements at least put them into context. The sad issue is the Labour Party today is no better than the Tories so do not hold much hope for normal working people what ever the outcome of the elections.

Up next: the dramatic death of the UK car industry. The dramatic death of UK steel industry The dramatic death of UK fishing industry The dramatic death of UK farming The dramatic death of uk High street The dramatic death of [name anything]. Brexit must be a gift for youtubers trying to make a living from the platform. Good luck.

@mark4lev

3 күн бұрын

Don’t forget shipbuilding

@ab-ym3bf

3 күн бұрын

@@mark4lev true

@royvirafayet6687

3 күн бұрын

The dramatic death of queen Elizabeth

@ab-ym3bf

3 күн бұрын

@@royvirafayet6687 what is dramatic about 96 year old person dying?

@patdbean

3 күн бұрын

@@ab-ym3bf it was just about as predictable as the end of coal.

Scargill walked those poor people into a complete disaster She laid the trap and he walked right into it

@drmodestoesq

4 күн бұрын

I've heard similar sentiments. Both sides wanted to go to war. And Thatcher won.

@Wee_Langside

Күн бұрын

​@@drmodestoesqThatcher spent years preparing for it. The stockpile of coal along Mega Watt Valley could have kept Ratcliffe and the rest going for a couple of years or more. Then between them the classic divide and conquer came into play when Nottingham miners didn't come out on strike.

@patdbean

21 сағат бұрын

@@Wee_Langside and they were stupid enough to go on strike in spring , giving the government all summer to stock up on coal, get the old oil fired stations ready and make sure the new 2gw interconnect from France is working at full tilt.

The structural problems in the UK Economy are so longstanding that this channel underlines the importance of Economic History as a subject we should be more familiar with. If we were, and if we learned the lessons from the past, and kept that memory fresh, we might be in a better position now and in the future.

@GeneralCormy

3 күн бұрын

Do you think the fact we effectively have feudal laws and hierarchys still, hamper the deep rooted problems in this country?

@simonengland6448

2 күн бұрын

Learn lessons like Nixon pulling the plug on the gold standard? Like the US exporting inflation to us? I often see these cries about learning from history, but the real reasons are never discussed. You get dyed-in-the-wool types chanting out-of-date slogans, like our friend here, but not one jot of understanding about our vassalage and the harm it does us.

@georgesdelatour

Күн бұрын

The historian AJP Taylor said the problem wasn’t that people didn’t learn from history, but that they almost always learned the wrong lessons from it. In 1938 Neville Chamberlain thought that the Czechoslovak crisis was a repeat of the Belgian crisis of 1830. In 1830 the British government was worried that appeasing France over Belgium would lead to a resurgence of Bonapartism, but they appeased France anyway and everything turned out fine. The problem was, the Austrian Painter wasn’t anything like Louis-Philippe.

@simonengland6448

Күн бұрын

@georgesdelatour Godwins Law. Have you never wondered why all comparisons on the net are just with one man? That only one version of him exists in the modern profile? There are far worse. So perhaps your lesson is more apposite than you realise?

I don't think it can be realistically claimed that the motives of Thatcher's government were green or even economic, and having endured two winters without heating, I wouldn't agree that the results have been economically beneficial either. The video seems like an endorsement of economic central-planning.

@martywestywood6004

3 күн бұрын

It was a political murder that can be retrospectively green washed.

Mrs Thatcher didn't close ALL the mines and Brown and Darling noticeably pushed forward the " dash for gas". The labour government of 1997 didn't do anything for the mining industry. Nicola Sturgeon closed the last coal fired power stations in Scotland EARLY and that ended open cast mining in Scotland. Those were the best paying manual jobs in former deep mining areas like mine. The health problems experienced by miners even in those who made it to retirement were just awful.

In china they use coal to make solar panels the irony of it

This would and could not have occurred were it not for North Sea oil. Because North Sea oil raised our economy it had the effect of masking relative under-performance and now with its own demise it has left the British economy, now dependent on services, lop-sided and with poor productivity. Hence, the manner of coal's decline and the method by which we used oil revenues (as a recurring cost rather than for investment a la Norway), the UK economic performance is rather a Cinderella. It looks goods until you strip out oil and when you do you see its problems. Oil revenues peaked in the wake of the GFC. Our performance since then has been poor. I believe it wrong to be now comparing coal vs solar etc., It is undoubtedly true were the coal industry still around now it would be uncompetitive and likely to close. It is whether we could have used the oil money better than for social security for the many laid off and artificially cutting the headline rate of tax. Arguably had we placed the money in a fund we could have paid for better infrastructure over the period. The real question is whether you can inflict such damage to areas of your country that 40 years on you are still talking about it and its effects on the people and places. In fact many of these areas had the perverse irony of voting for Brexit in 2016. The legacy of North Sea oil is perverse.

Apologies for the essay but please read this as someone who is directly employed in the energy industry. I did my work experience at a coal power station which then propelled me into the wider energy industry as an electrical and power system engineer. Within the industry, National Grid etc we all said and accepted coals days were numbered but we urged and cautioned the government NOT to close down the coal stations until replacement nukes or other dispatchable units were built like CCGTs. Fast forward, we have some of the highest wind renewables installed in the world but the highest energy bills in Europe. Internittency is not managed and Grid costs are out of control. We should have kept these stations opened for strategic and national security reasons, plus they would have kept our energy bills lower. We should have phased out coal in a controlled and sustained manner taking energy security and manufacturing trajectory into account. Too late now. But they were warned many many times. Within the industry we are also now sounding the alarm about banning ICE cars by setting hard dates without the correct infrastructure being in place. Again, nobody listens. Energy is a political football used by wealthy politicians and I am so sick of it. Also to address your comment on batteries replacing coal to manage intermittentcy, I categorically and vehemently disagree as someone with over a decade in the industry. In fact, national grid ESO even published a report that said using BESS to manage Curtailment in Scotland was a waste of capital. Think about it, how long can a battery store energy?? 1 or 2 hours maximum? Whereas coal could output non stop for months if needed. Long duration energy storage has not been replaced and FYI there has been a collapse in confidence in the UK BESS market due to negative pricing. In fact, we had a frequency event around 4 days ago where the French interconnector tripped. 80% of power used to save the system were GAS and pumped hydro. The Grid is being used as guinea pig and we are all paying for it.

@wotireckon

4 күн бұрын

The collapse of confidence in renewable auctions is entirely down to the way that that sector is priced. Renewable energy is by definition fickle, so there is a balance between generating capacity and storage capacity (whatever form that takes) to be struck. Once there's enough of each to get the country through the worst period in winter when it's freezing and the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing (obviously nuclear is in the mix), then can you imagine the potential for massive over capacity on a sunny, windy day in summer? A great deal of thought is needed to establish the best uses for this over-supply; whether exporting, or producing hydrogen/ammonia, water desalination or countless other uses. The Contract For Difference scheme needs an overhaul that recognises this incredible potential and puts us firmly on the path towards it, instead of encouraging generators to switch off their wind farms when the price inevitably turns negative.

@Daytona2

4 күн бұрын

"Think about it, how long can a battery store energy?? 1 or 2 hours maximum?" Wrong. It can store energy for as long as any other Lithium battery - years with some discharge loss. You're confusing the discharge duration - the time it can deliver the rated power. Most current BESS are designed for short term supply and have the capacity to supply for between half to four hours.

@HK.Builds

4 күн бұрын

​@@Daytona2 semantics. That's exactly what I meant. The point was, if you needed power during high demand periods you could draw on coal. BESS units will exhaust themselves after 2 hours and are only good for frequency response. Not long duration energy storage. We have not developed a viable alternative to piles of coal stores and we have paid the price for this, which is clearly reflected in the costs of our energy bills, a large part of which are made up of system operation costs.

@HK.Builds

4 күн бұрын

​@@wotireckonI completely agree with you. We are not coherent in our strategy to deploying this technology. CfDs gave us massive windfarms but the Grid was not built out to transport the power across Scotland and won't be resolved in 2035 which is insanity. There is also question marks around the cap and floor regime for interconnectors and whether it is wise to depend on European HVDC for energy security if prices become volatile. Paying billions to keep wind switched off is incredibly wasteful and thr government exploring locational pricing doesn't address what will happen to people with CfDs, and build out rates. The whole market needs a massive overhaul.

@drmodestoesq

4 күн бұрын

Thank you for the essay. But make sure you copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Because the KZread censorship algorithm will just remove it without a trace.

When the costs of green energy is computed, it never includes the cost of having to have back up for the base load. We simply don't have the technology to store green energy at present. So we have to incur the costs of having that back up, potentially to provide 100% of our energy needs.

@tip0019

2 күн бұрын

Yeah, it's a scam it's not talked about in the context of total network power needs and costs. You have that everywhere. When did you ever see a knowledgable network specialist on TV, never. And all the so-called research papers are not to be trusted, most are strongly biased.

Uk might not be the leader in manufacturing, science, education, technology, AI, quality of living but surely it’s the leader in cost of living, taxes, regulations and being a nanny state. 😂 and shortly we are going to have even more of those goodies 👍💪⚒️

But it was not the "dramatic death" it was the slow "predictable" death. 1,000,000+ in the 1920s 250,000 in the 1970 140,000 by 1984

The coal industry was replaced by cleaner and more efficient energy sources such as Natural Gas, Solar, Nuclear and Wind technology. Thatcher was right; change is always hard and painful.

After the miners strike Thatcher closed viable pits early out of spite. The council house sales were a plan that people with mortgages can not afford to strike as they would lose their home . Sale of energy decreased the tax take, the new companies reduced staff and used tax avoidance schemes to reduce their liability, offshore ownership flowed money out the country.

@graemelake657

4 күн бұрын

Yep. I worked at Cresswell in Derbyshire from 1989-1991. It made £10m profit in its last year. Albeit without development costs. It was never about economics only spite to the num and then the scab union ( udm)

@garyb455

4 күн бұрын

Labour closed as many mines as the Tories did and thank God they did. Saved many miners lives

@graemelake657

4 күн бұрын

@@garyb455 the classic no idea response. Labour did close mines to either exhaustion or severe conditions around faults. The tories closed for political reasons. Big difference. Chap, my father and I were there.....!

@peterwait641

3 күн бұрын

@@garyb455 Polish miners lives are valued less ?

The bonus scheme drove a wedge between the high earning miners in places like Nottinghamshire, and the older pits in Wales and other areas like Durham, where all the big seams were worked out. Then along came Arthur Scargill who refused to give everyone a vote on a national strike, so therefore the scene was set from within the mining workforce, setting miner against miner. Thatcher was clever and the stage was set for the demise of the coal industry, by a clash of ideologies. I was a coal miner and I am aged 68 and healthy, which would not have been the case had I carried on with my job as a tailgate ripper. Yes the wages were good, and when the bonus came in I was lucky that our pit in Doncaster was one of the big pits with 8ft seams of coal, but I do not miss the, dust or heat. Also I observed men who were broken by coal face work, losing money by being put on light work or a button job and therefore their wage scale decreased, as did their life expectancy, so no I don’t mourn the industry, but I do mourn what’s happened to my town and surrounding villages, where after the pits closed, no one had a pot to piss in.

These videos are so well made and interesting, great work Tejvan.

rapid improvement in battery technology allows for a few seconds of backup, and as it is now and how it looks to be for some years in the future unless there is an unexpected breakthrough you might keep your computer on for a few hours but not a steel plant or a lathe

Good watch..ex riccall mine and kellingley here . Also worked at drax . Seeing biomass burned where it actually creates more co2

Hi, if you start interviewing a network-specialist about the real costs and needs of the grid I am in. This is just propaganda about renewables which were not even present in the 1980-2000. Try not to cheap out on quality. I like your presentation in general, thank you.

The same fate awaits us after banning fuel engines. Transportation costs will soar even higher than they are now and average families will struggle to live.

@piccalillipit9211

4 күн бұрын

Transport is £15 a month where I live. It will only skyrocket if you missmanage it. Which obviously you will its the UK. But is not necessary.

@reggie69.

4 күн бұрын

I really doubt that seeing as charging costs of an electric car always been cheaper by like 60% less than fuel cars if anything I'd be more worried about prices for the cars not going down it looks like Chinese electric vehicles are going to solve that because if they can charge only 12K for electric car that is amazing we just need to hope the UK doesn't put tarrifs like the eu or usa because we don't have a car industry so there's no point in making everyone poorer

@ciaranReal

2 күн бұрын

​@@reggie69.We do have a car industry, wtf are you on about

@reggie69.

2 күн бұрын

@ciaranReal I swear they're all luxury car markers, and Mini Cooper doesn't count, I only just realised they exist

@GonzoTehGreat

2 күн бұрын

​@@reggie69.ICE cars are manufactured in the UK, but not by UK owned companies.

bs. Renewables are much more expensive if you do not burden for free thermal generation with guaranteed reserve. No battery can provide coverage for the whole network for several days. And 24/mwh (2.4c/kwh) is directly lie, it is only operational expenses. Coal in UK had absolutely other problem - it is very bad, expensive and dangerous. Underground deep mines, thin seams, water, gas. When it was the single available power source - it lived. When it started to compete with gas, oil, coal from overseas open cuts and so on, when miners began to demand reasonable life level, not 12h/6d work for food, - British coal collapsed. And it happened long before all this green bs even started.

@ivancho5854

2 күн бұрын

Well said. 👍

One part of this debate that gets utterly ignored is the pay scale of the miners. The idea that they were impoverished and starving is a myth. If we compare their paychecks to those of the average British working stiff we see that they were making good money. And that's why people went to the voting booths saying they were voting labour. And when they actually marked their ballot they were voting for Thatcher.

Thatcher was the biggest sleaze in UK history.

We are still paying for Thatchers legacy to this day and will continue to do so for decades to come. Shameful!

Coal mining supported thousands of jobs in the Midlands, and power generation thousands more. Both have now gone and nothing has replaced them except retail, housing and Amazon warehousing and distribution. Even small nuclear stations which could replace the old coal stations will be placed on the coast.

Nottinghamshire County Council had a policy of supporting local industry, which meant supporting the coal mines in the area. Hence, all the council buildings were heated by solid fuel boilers. However, before this strike, coal was being imported from Russia simply because the cost of local coal was too high. Year on year, the miners had pushed for higher and higher wages and, inorder to achieve this, had virtually held the country to ransom.

The London finance sector really is carrying the entire country at this point it seems. I'm trying to imagine the US if everywhere else was struggling apart from the NY metro area

@GonzoTehGreat

2 күн бұрын

They're not. The success of London's financial sector benefits only those who work in it, their customers and those who live in/near London. The rest of the country doesn't see any of this wealth.

If renewables are so economically viable why are India ,China and most developing countries building coal fired power stations surely renewables such as solar would be there first choice? are is it just the massive government subsidies that make them viable ,just like the massive subsidies that bailed the city of London out in 2009

@GonzoTehGreat

2 күн бұрын

Because coal mining is a cheaper, older technology, which is readily available to these industrializing countries, allowing them to meet their rapidly growing energy demand without investing in the technologies and infrastructure needed by renewables, such as developing solar and wind farms, but also a comprehensive, high capacity electricity grid, which they currently lack. Also, both these countries have substantial coal reserves, so using them reduces the energy they need to import from abroad, making them more energy secure. Having said that, China has been building more Renewable & Nuclear capacity than Coal mines for sometime now and India will likely also start doing the same in a decade from now, once they industrialize enough.

In Spain happened something similar. Coal was not profitable anymore so it had to be helped by the government to survive. And it wasnt only unprofitable because we were using less coal but because the coal in the international market was a lot cheaper that the one produced internally. It is not a good idea to artificially maintain companies that produce nothing but looses. It is bad for the country as a whole and for the rest of the profitable companies that have to pay more taxes just to maintain the coal industry. Reality always catch you, so we need to re-invent ourselves every time it is necessary, including moving to other cities (or countries) or learning new stuff.

Do we need to make steel from a strategic point of view, is a more relevant question, in my opinion. If so then yes we need coal. Or at leas some skill to restart it if needed.... Yes there are lots of modern super materials but ulitmately in war you always end up using heavy metal.

Needed to close, but the Tories failed to provide a replacement industry for all the workers.

@mark4lev

3 күн бұрын

What if one didn’t exist?

@GonzoTehGreat

2 күн бұрын

​​@@mark4lev There's always something else to produce, but it required government initiative and commitment (via investment) to retrain the miners and attract other industries to the area. In this case, the obvious choice would've been manufactured goods.

I would disagree with the battery storage. It's not so much technology, it's technologically feasible to add enough storage, it's the cost, materials available, land, and labour needed to build enough of it. When you sit down and do the maths, the amount of energy storage required by a country like the UK, with a very large seasonal variation in solar and wind being very unpredictable, is gargantuan. It would require over 100 times the amount of energy storage we have currently, more like 150-200 times when you consider increasing demand due to electrification. Storage has gotten cheaper, but the costs haven't fallen nearly as fast as green generation, mainly because all options need a lot of raw materials, be it concrete for pumped storage or lithium/sodium for batteries. That's fine for countries where seasonal variation is small or non existent and the sun shines a lot more than it does here, but at 50 degrees north under a sky that is often overcast, it means you need at least a weeks worth of energy storage to maintain a reliable grid.

For someone who grew up under Thatcher I can say a huge no.My family gave donations to tge miners.

Battery storage isn’t going to make renewables reliable. There is a huge environmental cost to these lithium batteries. And the scale of generation will be too great for batteries to handle. Nuclear is the only option.

@alexgreenwood3179

3 күн бұрын

Who says the batteries will be using Lithium Ion? More likely to be Sodium Ion for stationary battery storage

@freedomwatch3991

3 күн бұрын

@@alexgreenwood3179 Yeah, but sodium batteries have even lower energy density than lithium. And renewables also have low energy density. Nuclear is the only high density option. I think sodium batteries will have a larger role to play in transportation - possibly hydrogen too.

@nothereandthereanywhere

3 күн бұрын

@@freedomwatch3991 You don't need a high density storage in the household. Most households can spare a space outdoor, or indoor under the stairs and have a battery there to keep a good energy stored when the sun isn't fully shining.

@freedomwatch3991

3 күн бұрын

@@nothereandthereanywhere You definitely don’t want to be keeping a lithium battery in or around your house; they’re not safe. Sodium ones are safer, but their capacity is around 30-40% lower I think but they also have a longer life. Not sure how recyclable they are compared to lithium (which is toxic). Anyways, if you want to generate at scale, nuclear is the way to go and you still need large generators for grid stabilisation. But yeah, technology landscape can change very quickly. Anything is possible.

Hard, dirty and dangerous.....sounds like the description of a river swimmer in England lol

Battery storage is a mirage. Daily demand 900GWh, a week of no wind in Europe means you need 6TWh (Terra Watt hours) storsge. Good luck with that. We've export manufacturing to China who burn coal to make stuff we import. The dangerous mining jobs have been exported to mines in Africa with child workers with all the pollution related to that just dumped into the environment. The profits going to China. Oil bonanza paid for 3 million unemployed. Renewable electricity is heavily subsidised, the only people getting royalties for off shore wind are the Royal Family.

*I WENT TO SCHOOL IN A BLACK BIN BAG* too poor to afford a coat, our neighbours burned their furniture to keep their newborn baby AL!V3 through winter. My sister can still not bring herself to throw coats and shoes away to this day, she has some that are 30 years old and with counselling is starting to give them to charity. *NO - THATCHER WAS NOT RIGHT* she was a terrible terrible human who destroyed the fabric of the UK to make rich people richer.

Awesome.

Despite price abatement, current energy bills have skyrocketed compared to pre-pandemic levels. Coal once a reliable source of generating electricity has gradually depleted and therefore, filthy coal mines have been shuttered. Thousands of jobs were inevitably lost but the more crucial thing is this has kickstarted a seismic and consequential shift towards renewables. This transition reverberates amongst every UK industry.

@piccalillipit9211

4 күн бұрын

What about the millions of people decimated by the vindictive action???

Coal wasn't dethroned by wind turbines. It was dethroned by modern minerals, things like lithium. We could still mine for things like that in the UK but we don't even look for it...

@Croz89

Күн бұрын

Coal was dethroned by cheap gas. Half the CO2, much less pollution and power plants are very simple and cheap to build.

@InquisitiveBaldMan

23 сағат бұрын

@@Croz89 Its the same fossilised junk. Fossils belong in the past.

Thatcher was wrong!!

Can see some similarities with further introduction of AI to replace labour 🙄

@drmodestoesq

4 күн бұрын

I'm surprised the KZread censorship AI program didn't delete that comment. We'll see if this one stays up.

How do you manage a transition? Easy! Allow the free market to do it. The most efficient will be the cheapest and we aren't subsidizing inefficient energy like solar, wind etc.

@drmodestoesq

4 күн бұрын

Does that mean importing cheap coal from abroad? Is that part of the free market? And requiring emission controls on coal powered stations? Is that part of the free market? And unions? Are unions part of the free market?

@ProfoundFamiliarity

3 күн бұрын

​@drmodestoesq yes, importing cheap coal from abroad is an example of free market economics.

@GonzoTehGreat

2 күн бұрын

There are no free markets. Regardless, unfettered capitalism is horrible, as the industrial revolution proved. Nobody wants a repeat of that.

No. Thatcher was very, very, very wrong. A wrecking ball.

@inbb510

2 күн бұрын

But why delay the inevitable? Especially in the age of climate crisis?

@GonzoTehGreat

2 күн бұрын

​@@inbb510 _"Especially in the age of climate crisis?"_ Climate Change played no role in shaping govt policy at the time.

@inbb510

2 күн бұрын

@@GonzoTehGreat , that doesn't change the fact that it was inevitable. The coal unions should have worked with the government to establish a smooth transition period where they can secure jobs in the energy industry that doesn't rely on coal. But they decided to put the whole country to ransom instead and they still would have done in the face of the climate crisis.

@GonzoTehGreat

Күн бұрын

@@inbb510 You claimed there was a climate crisis at the time, which is false. Neither the government nor the unions factored climate change into their policies. Your implication that it's entirely the miners fault is naive, your expectations as to what should've happened are unrealistic and your speculation about a "what if" scenario is irrelevant. The unions could've (and should've) been more cooperative, but the government (under Thatcher) also mishandled the closure of the mines.

@inbb510

Күн бұрын

@@GonzoTehGreat , I really don't think the union would have ceded their jobs in the coal industry. It would have pretty much been the UK version of the Koch Brothers if they were retained as the way they were - where they would use their powerful unions to spread climate skeptic misinformation about how coal would have been "clean". They would have abused their powers to frustrate the green energy transition by any means necessary. You only have to look at the tactics they used in the 70s which were constant power cuts in the event of strikes so much so that Britain had to have a 3 day work week. They were never going to be cooperative with Thatcher nor agreeing to any smooth transition with jobs. It really was coal or go bust for these strikers.

Thatcher closed 160 pits in her time -11yrs. Wilson closed 290 pits in his two terms-10 years. Many of these were made by Tony Benn as energy secretary. So why is Thatcher hated more?

@andrewcarter7503

3 күн бұрын

Because it's the myth the left spin. "Thatcher destroyed the coal industry". No she didn't. It had been in decline since the late 1940s when nearly 500k were employed in it. In 1979 it was 160k. "It was Thatcher v the people of Britain". No it wasn't. Not a single union went on sympathy strike to support the miners. Not even all the miners went on strike to support the striking miners. Midlands coal mines carried on working. Leftists who weren't even born at the time "know" what happened. It's not that those on the left know nothing. It's that they know so much that isn't true.

@peteroneill2991

3 күн бұрын

Lets get some perspective.Dept. for energy figures. NCB jobs 1947 = 707,000 1994 privatisation year 7,000, Jobs lost 700.000. Breakdown (1951 695,000) job losses (L) 12,000, (1965 455,000) loses (C) 240,000. (1970 290,000) loses (L) 165,000. (1974 253,000) loses (C) 37,000. (1979 242,000) loses (L) 11,000. 1994 7,000 jobs remaining 235,000 jobs loses under Thatcher/Major. Total job loses conservatives 512,000, Labour 188,000. Dept of energy figures NCB mines 1947 (958) 1951 (pits 896) Labour 62 closures 1965 (pits 545) tory closures 351 1970 (pits 293) labour closures 252 1974 (pits 261) 32 tory closures 1979 (pits219) 42 labour closures 1994 Privatised (pits 16) 203 tory closures. Labour closures 356, tory closures 586 total closed 942.

@peteroneill2991

3 күн бұрын

lets get some perspective. Clean air act 1956 Coal decline late 50’s and 60’s. Switch to other forms of energy. I was born on a council estate in 1953, we had a coal fire for heating and cooking was done by town (coal) gas. Coal was delivered weekly by a coal merchant and stored in our coal house. During my school years this was replaced by natural gas this happened in millions of homes across the UK. What a delight no more starting a coal fire on a cold winter morning, no more toxic fumes in the house, no more smog. Whilst I am sorry for the loss of coal jobs and the devastated mining communities during this transition period. The responsibility of a government is to the health of its citizens and not to one of its power bases, I think most people recognized this at the time. Thatcher closed the mines for revenge.

@georged220

20 сағат бұрын

@@peteroneill2991 Thanks for your reply. I can relate to those times very well and the reasons for the switch away from coal. I'm still sensing a double standard here though in that it was perfectly ok for Labour to close pits down but evil for the Tories have done the same..

When the miners destroyed Ted Heath's Conservative government, they acted against democracy and there was a wide belief their leaders were affiliated to Soviet objectives. In failing to mention that violent precursor strike, you deny context. When Arthur Scargill again sought to exert the miners' illegitimate veto, it was hardly surprising that the Conservatives fought back with little sympathy. From their perspective, democratic government itself was on the line.

Academic Agent talked about this in this video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/n2eFr7eEXcmwctI.htmlsi=pLRYtQ1jGBKv1xG7

It's impossible to come to a just conclusion without examining how other countries like Germany, France, the USA and Russia dealt with the same circumstances. In the US, we also had a powerful mine workers' union, yet the concomitant transformation of heavy industry crippled entire cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Chicago. As for the USSR, the devastation was appalling. In 2000, a journey down the Nevá river in Petersburg revealed both banks lined with the remains of heavy industry - and not a person in sight. So what did Thatcher get right - or wrong? My impression as an outsider is that Thatcher's policies were at once a symptom of and a contributor to the fault lines in the British class system. In that respect, she was a precursor of the UK Tories and US Democrats of today, who represent a degreed, highly educated class over against the 80% not degreed.

@andrewsmith3760

2 күн бұрын

German coal mining is still strong strangly enouth Germany decided to kill it own economy with the sanctions that are hurting it more than Russia When a country ignores to ask the qustion of who was responsible for the detruction of the the nord stream pipe line you have to question to whom there Government care about. It own people, being a puppet for the USA or being used by an inexeperienced Green party which seems to be more interested in waging war in Ukraine than the welfare of its own people. Th is also using more coal to generate power which is the most un Green energy providers. We do live in strange times. BTW I am not anti green and do agree we have a global warming problem. I just have suspicions about the motivations of some of the green representative in Europe. Also I would like to add that if your constituency is lacking a good alternative to Labour vote green.

It probably went too far.

The principle issue for the pit closures was that the industry was replaced after a nearly year long strike that pushed everyone involved and on the sidelines with precisely *nothing*. This smashed the communities, society and economy of pit villages some of which have never recovered. A kinder approach that would have been more thoughtful is to have transitioned into another energy source or businesses that replaced the jobs which were ultimately lost. It is typical of what we should always come to expect by Tory government, thoughtless smashing things up followed by no activity coupled with leaving others to pick up the bits.

She was very right but I'm not sure that she was correct.

CO2 is not a pollutant, it is the gas of life.

@nothereandthereanywhere

3 күн бұрын

Pretty sure it is O2 - without it, we wouldn't live. But if you have too much CO2 in the air, you choke on it.

@ivancho5854

2 күн бұрын

🤫

Was cheaper to import coal than the UK digging it, by a huge factor hence the UK was paying for very expensive energy, the longer it was left the worse the issue would become. Remember the wapping printing press 12 employees for every job

Thatcher was wrong, she spent her retirement in the USA lol 😂

If coal had received the same subsidies as nuclear things would gave been so different

@fern8580

4 күн бұрын

@graem great observation ! is it time to look at coal with different eyes?There are 400 years of coal consumption left in the ground, and less than 100 years for uranium...

@graemelake657

4 күн бұрын

@@fern8580 I think that ship long sailed. But two points, Thatcher stopped research into clean coal technologies in the 80s. Also shutting pits was fine if they were exhausted but the lack of control devastated communities. In the place where I live the colliery shut in 1994., it's still not recovered. The German approach where all workers were retrained and new industries given subsidies to locate ensured continuity. I lived in WestPhalia Germany and that's exactly what happened when their coal industry began decline.

@inbb510

2 күн бұрын

​@@graemelake657, "clean coal" is an oxymoron. Coal can never be clean. Why do you think photos of many buildings in Liverpool or Manchester in the 1970s were black. It's because of soot coming down from smoke exhaled by coal mines. And coal mines can only operate like as such.

She didnt do any of the things she did for the reasons stated in this video, just look at all the other industries she destroyed. It was about social engineering, destroying the solidarity of the working class and shifting power back in to the hands of the few with the introduction of Neoliberalism and the age of rugged individualism, the same agenda Reagan was implementing at the time in the US. No one can argue that coal was on the decline but we only have to look to how France and Germany handled their transitions to know there was a much fairer way of going about it.

@inbb510

2 күн бұрын

Don't think so somehow. Germany is having Britain's 1980s at the moment with the Russian gas debacle.

I fought the coal miners in the 1972 (Heath) strike as a West Yorkshire Police Officer.. I kept Thorpe Marsh Power Station open so that hospitals could get electricity. I was spat on daily, and shoved under moving articulated lorries. Coal Mining communities were rife with drunkenness and incest.

The problem with the coal industry was not a question of whether it had to close, but how it was handled. Thatcher was a warmonguerer and only knew how to create enemies and fight. France under Mitterrand, facing the same problem with coal at the same time, instead of just trying to smash unions and destroy livelihoods in the coal areas, created a system of concessions and tax breaks to attract new businesses to the area and create new employment. Some of those companies, ironically enough, came from the north of England. Which politician did the best thing for their people? No need for compensation, just a need for some basic intelligent thinking.

Grid scale battery storage doesn't exist. Fairytales and bad maths. 👎👎

More like apology for Thatcherism. Whole vid is concentrating on fossil fuel transition instead of talking about closing often only employer and industry in region without thinking about consequences or having prepared policy mitigating and combatting effects of such decision, violently breaking legal unions and taking away any real power from employees leading to todays prevalence of zero hour contracts and minimal wage agency work replacing employment contacts leading to impoverishment of all regions and cities with no hope for reversal for majority of ppl. decently paid jobs, decent employers and job opportunities simply left whole swathes of UK overnight and they wont ever return unless we actually adopt policies to attract them and allowing their return and for that we first have to end the neoliberal ideological madness, and stop this apologism for Thatchers turning economy into one big financial casino for the sole benefit of one square mile in middle of London( and already rich top one percent of country) while siphoning money and opportunities from rest of the country and slowly but steadily turning remaining 99% ppl into paupers.

For a start, Thatcher was despicable individual. As for the miner strike, she sort to destroy not only the hard working men in the coalfields but also Scargill.

@inbb510

2 күн бұрын

Did you watch the video?

Scargill was an arsehole of the highest order .Strike after strike the same with the car industry .The power stations were going over to gas .But as usual in this country instead of looking further a field the mines were closed down We have some of the best coal in the world and instead of concentrating on selling our coal abroad nothing done because you had the likes of scargill who even turned on the miners union when he was asked to leave his union paid flat in London he did the miners no favour or the government of that time .most say the tories did the damage .But the don't talk about what labour did

@andrewsmith3760

Күн бұрын

First of all in 1972 and 74 stike it was Joe Gormley who was the leader of the miners. 1974 saw huge inflation more due to the oil crisis and this was not just limited to UK. It is was exacerbatedby Edward Heath iressponsible economic policies that overheated the economy further. The FACT IS normal working People were far better of in real terms at the end of the 70s that what they were at the start. I left school at fifteen in 1972 I eventually started as apprentice electrician in in October 1973. I remember the miners strikes and the issues of the motor industry Luton had the Vauxhall plant Commer cars Skefco and Dunstable had Bedford trucks Chrysler AC Delco, none of that exists now. Skefco by the way had very good idustrial relations and very few strikes. Just out of interest what did you do for a living in the 70s. My memories of the union bashes whom some were close relatives were also the first to run to the union when they wanted to make claims. A family member was exactly that, always complaining about the unions; when the person had a very minor injury which i suspect now days would have been thrown out by the HSE for numerous reason went running of to the Union to make a claim and received £600 compensation which at that time was a substantial amont. My issue was not the validity of the claim but the pure hypocritical stance she took with unions. So i ask again what job did you do in the late 70s early 80s.

@martinphipps5777

23 сағат бұрын

@@andrewsmith3760 well you wanted to know left school 1969 started work in the dockyards as apprentice marine fitter finished my time went to sea Came back to England in the 80s youngest shop steward in the AEUW so when it comes to knowing about the unions I've had my fill the one's today are I'm alright jack .And as for injured union men its the biggest stich up going .in the last 5years I've had six major operations and spinal and still on going where are the union solicitors you can't find them with a fxxkin telescope nore were with you brother does that answer your question