The beauty of this Retail scenario is it's forcing us to look down different avenues for pieces where amazing bargains can be found. Now is the time to look for Discounts, to chase the outliers and pieces that are a few years old. Happy hunting!🥃

@Scout-nj7xj

6 ай бұрын

Indeed. A couple of weeks ago I managed to buy New the SEIKO Spb255j the night diver MM 200, limited edition, for what that's worth for a 50% discount from an authorised dealer. No alignment issues and the 6r35 runs at about +3secs per day. Retail was £1080.

@GCPlati85

6 ай бұрын

In 12-24 months, discounts are likely to be even greater on many models. What will AD’s do with unsold 17k carbon Panerais? These and many, many more will end up on the secondary market for half the price. The Swiss watch industry is nearing the precipice of a deep recession largely of their own making. The day of the enthusiast will return.

@davidinda5922

6 ай бұрын

That’s how I got my Tudor Northflag NOS , altough still a bit expensive but worth it !

@thegorn

6 ай бұрын

You can complain about prices all you like, but complaining about the market and Adam's Smith's "invisible hand" is very much like "old man yells at cloud". Basically if prices are high, then there are people richer than you who are buying them at those prices and stores are clearing their inventory. This will happen to all brands that rich folk who want status will go for - Rolex, Omega, Patek, even Tudor. You just have to accept this new reality. Think of the 5 stages of grief - denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. Maybe you are angry about it. Maybe you are at the "bargaining" stage telling yourself "if only I bought that Rolex (something) in 2015 when I had the chance", or maybe you are depressed about it all and just need to talk to us Internet folk for some copium. But I say - move onto acceptance. Accept that it is what it is and there's no going back. The best way to accept it is to look at the microbands. I moved on my former big boys toys of Omega, Rolex, Breitling, Tudor and JLC. All my watches now are from exciting microbrands, a few cool pieces from San Martin, and an old-school SKX007. And you know what? I couldn't be happier. Especially now I don't have to keep any pieces in a safety deposit. Fancy that - I actually get to keep the watches I love at home with me?! CRAZY!!

@perfectwrist23

6 ай бұрын

I just hope the ADs aren't too stubborn. Market has shifted 180 degrees and they need to absorb the hits to survive

Agree 100%. Omega is a prime example of a company that has, in my opinion, destroyed their brand in their efforts to raise it up with price hikes. What a shame. I turned to companies like Hamilton in the meantime.

@BulletBeena

6 ай бұрын

Indeed. Their sister brand Longines is the more attractive prospect right now.

@MrFrontsidebus

6 ай бұрын

All of the 3 are owned by Swatch 😂

@meagandempers7308

6 ай бұрын

​@@MrFrontsidebus😂😂🎉

@tomp3790

6 ай бұрын

⁠@@BulletBeena ofcourse. Because omega got out of their way in that price bracket. At the end of the day, the Swatch group makes strategic choices with their brands and this was one of them. They are simply just choosing a brand for each price bracket and they have moved omega up. This, so that people that could afford Rolex can now buy omega and people that could afford omega can now buy Longines. Double win for Swatch group.

@AvidUTuber

6 ай бұрын

Even Hamilton is extremely overrated

That IWC Ingenieur damn near broke me of watch collecting journey. Such a wonderfully done watch, incredibly elegant and well executed, but that price had me in utter disbelief.

@thegorn

6 ай бұрын

The fact that it came out with crown guards, upside-down bezel holes, over-sized dial pattern, and no 'IWC" for the 12 marker, and yet still had the hide to call it a Genta remake, even conning his wife into spruiking for it no-doubt with a bag of cash when Genta would have been rolling in his grave and hating it, is what damn near broke me with IWC and how bloody audaciously deceptive they are.

@ahmadghufran8117

6 ай бұрын

I actually managed to get hands on with it and it is an absolutely gorgeous watch in hand. The finishing and the dial design is really good. It’s such a nice watch but that sticker shock is real.

@urbanracer032

6 ай бұрын

@@ahmadghufran8117 Very much agreed! In the metal, it's amazing but that price was disappointing. I chose an Omega Connie Globemaster and couldn't be happier.

@wisamal-hakim5531

6 ай бұрын

I too have had a play with it. It’s a nice watch. But when the mark xx which has the same engine under the hood is less than half the price, at retail, it beggars belief and has really out me off IWC at the moment.

@slapjuice

6 ай бұрын

why? it's a luxury watch... most people shouldn't be able to afford it.

JLC is very much guilty of this. They continue to up their prices but havent updated most of their line up in years. Very dissapointing

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

Once that gold rotor disappeared the entire picture changed for JLC 🙄🥃

@Mike-dg9ib

6 ай бұрын

That's very true. It's embarrassing when you weigh up the price versus the specs.

@martinesquivel5434

6 ай бұрын

Yes I really wanted the master chronograph calendar and have seem it go up in price twice to the point where I do not feel it is justified now

@jchong416

6 ай бұрын

They have even gotten worse in certain respects. They don't put deployant clasps on a lot of their watches on leather anymore.

@thegorn

6 ай бұрын

@@ID-Guy What's the story with the gold rotor. My JLC that I need to get around to selling has one. Do they not ship that on their stainless steel pieces anymore?

On the other hand, this may be the Golden Age for micro brands and independents, offering watches with incredible specs, interesting innovations and/or compelling designs at well below the inflated prices of the major brands.

@verynormalman

6 ай бұрын

Yes. I have bought 3 microbrand watches in 2023. And I am happy with all of them. And they are super value.

@aaronyong8029

6 ай бұрын

⁠@@verynormalmancongrats!! Very curious to hear what the 3 brands are :)

@jeanlefranc3817

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely. Now is also the time for Sinn, Longines, Formex to shine.

@bigg2838

6 ай бұрын

And Christopher Ward

@roycedot

6 ай бұрын

Facts. The democratization of watch manufacturing. So many quality offerings below $1k.

As others have said, JLC and IWC are the main culprits. They’ve timed massive price increases right in line with a significant drop off of interest in luxury watches. As a result, I think their sales will suffer. This was confirmed to me by a Sales Associate at an AD, who told me that interest in JLCs has really cooled and she cannot sell many of them. These price increases will undoubtedly drive many of us away from retail purchases, and towards the secondary market and other brands. Brands like Longines, Oris and micros could be the winner here.

@alexz3493

6 ай бұрын

Lange did a 40% increase in one year across several model families. Honestly, any brand owned by Swatch or Richemont has lost their minds pricing wise

@richardwarren2024

6 ай бұрын

@@alexz3493 wow. And it’s not like Lange started at an “affordable” level.

@perfectwrist23

6 ай бұрын

Are they allowed much room to discount ?

@Franzino

6 ай бұрын

I wanted a JLC Reverso also; but with these prices they are not worth it anymore for me.

I was close to buying a GO SeaQ but it is now 3k € more expensive than when I first looked at it. One AD told me that GO is not selling enough pieces anymore…

You nailed the situation perfectly. The price hikes have frozen my spending… and, I am looking for microbrand bargains.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

It's actually such a good time to be exploring different avenues. I just found a Breitling (one I've been eyeing for 3 years) and all in, it'll cost me the equivalent of a microbrand watch. There's plenty of fantastic opportunity out there for us 😉 Enjoy the hunt brother!

@masqueman01

6 ай бұрын

@@ID-Guy Congrats on your Breitling. I cannot wait to see the future video on that one. As the retail costs rise, I will become more stubborn and picky saving my money until the perfect situation arrives.... and it will. I know it. That I why I pre visualize my future collection with a nerdy database of current street prices so I will know a good deal when I see one! This may make me look impulsive to onlookers, but every sale is really months (or years) in the making. Thanks for the great videos!

Perfectly said. JLC and Omega have pushed up their prices so much that they are no longer a value proposition and are just over priced. Rolex have always slowly slowly crept their prices up so it feels “okay” plus they hold their value so you can feel less taken advantage of. JLC though. That increase of 40% recently. Absolute joke.

@garyboyle695

6 ай бұрын

I love how you give Rolex a free pass on the pretext that they hold their value.

@skzion2

6 ай бұрын

Rolex holds its value ... until the bubble bursts.

@ivanharlokin

6 ай бұрын

@@garyboyle695 In the UK, Rolex prices have gone up 5%...which is the rate of inflation. JLC price rises have nothing to do with that, and are an attempt at 'market repositioning' - hiking the price up so that people perceive them as more desirable.

All well said. Dropped my JLC Master Control calendar off for servicing this week at a JLC boutique. Was aghast that the price is now roughly 125% higher than what I remember paying 7 or 8 years ago. Gorgeous watch but I wouldn’t pay that! Bought a Zenith Defy Skeleton at another AD later that day - they just got one in 2 days earlier and hadn’t had one in stock for 3 months. Love the watch, but told them they need to be competitive and while I didn’t expect them to meet prices on Chrono 24, I expected a material discount. Got the discount and bought it, but without it I would’ve walked out with nothing. Even then, pricey but I love the watch 😊

I think the simple fact is that as working class people these brands don't want our money any more. They don't need it. They are happy to sell fewer units at much higher margins to exclusive clients and make higher profits that way. I'm sure in the next decade the vast majority of people will be completely priced out of the "luxury" watch market and our only choices will be microbrands, Japanese brands and AliExpress specials.

@K_j_M

6 ай бұрын

Hard to beat a AliEx special with an ETA movement tho. No one gets in to that market as an investment opportunity so, why now give the middle finger to those brands that are deliberately pricing people out

@fatboy7385

6 ай бұрын

What is wrong with Japanese brands?

@mickeylickey123

6 ай бұрын

They could make far greater profit if they brought the price down and sold more units. Simple economics. The fact is, most don't want us regular consumers to own their watches. They want them to be more exclusive and to only be seen on a ceo's wrist.

@dri1811ya

6 ай бұрын

... And apple watches and timex (I have nothing against them)

@acewings221

6 ай бұрын

GS is overpriced too

Very well said. Hopefully many other influencers in the community will call out the price hike and buyers refrain from buying this year. Social media communities have given watch manufacturers a lot visibility and vested interest from new hobbyists in the last years. However I fear it transformes the craft in luxury arrogance.

@perfectwrist23

6 ай бұрын

Used prices of Rlx are cooling hugely. They don't want it broadcast

The saddest thing is seeing so many of these watch enthusiasts last year having to sell their pieces due to financial emergencies like medical bills. I've stopped all consideration of any purchases above $500 because I would never want to be in that situation. I am more than satisfied with my Helm, Signum (from South Africa btw!) and other budget pieces.

@jamesjoyce2528

6 ай бұрын

Smart. Very smart. None of these watches are worth the four-and-five digit prices. The current cheapest Apple Watch model today? A stunningly low $399 US, or 449 Euros. Incredible value. When you go to turn it in, you'll get a significant percentage back from Apple in trade-in value to put towards your next Apple Watch. You can get a *lifetime* of new Apple Watches for a FRACTION of the price of a single cheap new Rolex or Patek.

@stevepick9527

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, but in the end it’s still just an Apple Watch … basically a mini computer wrapped in plastic on your wrist. And they all look the same, you can’t even compare with mechanical watches then like apples and oranges

Prices increases in MSRP, due to the past 5 years highs in the grey market. Now when the grey market is taking a hit, people will think twice before paying the increased retail prices if they can get a discount somewhere else. Thanks brother for the great analysis and video 👍🏽

In Canada Rolex prices just all went up 8 percent across the board . The only innovation from the large watch brands are new ways to price gouge us

Excellent content! Very true for today's 'luxury' watch market prices. We're starting to see the price hike rush from all brands while having us buyers being put off by it and looking to smart watches now. Love it when you said 'something has to go' with regards to the price hike and enticing people to buy.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

I think of it like a sports stadium in poorer countries. Charge massive amounts per ticket and have less people in the stands OR offer tickets for a third of the price and fill the stadium to capacity. To bring in new buyers... man they're going to have to play with the numbers🥃

The message conveyed here could not have been more succinctly stated; thank you sir for doing this. Sadly, you described me--I have stayed out of the watch purchase market as my way of railing against the current price structures resulting from these recent outrageous increases. I'm trying to avoid buying less expensive models than those I want because I don't want to fall into the trap of looking at my wrist and saying "well, I bought this watch, but really wanted a ..."

Checked out the Skipper of Tag Huer yesterday, nice watch but its price of 6,470 US dollars its ridiculous . No wonder I have seen that beautiful watch getting older on the same shelf for months.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

When that price heads to $4950 and less, then we'll take it more seriously 😉 Fantastic piece though... the Glassbox range is looking sweeter and sweeter by the day! 🥃

Best commentary I've heard in a long time. Pretty soon the only people wearing these will be basketball/football/F1 players and rappers. Even CEOs rock Apple watches nowadays.

Well said it's shocking how expensive every brand has become.....back in December 2018 I was in an omega AD and was offered a seamster 300m current model black dial for 3.5k and a hesalite speedmaster for 3.2k and if I took both we agreed on 6.2k......5 years later 5.6k for the 300m and over 6k for the speedy and yes I know the speedy had an upgrade but that's a ridiculous rise !!

I am mostly looking in the neo-vintage market these days. 20 odd years back is where the value is now. Many brilliant overlooked watches from this period.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

Well said here Simon! I really enjoy the hunt now (going after pieces 3-5 years old) and finding bargains 😉 It's so much fun...

Brands over inflating their prices is one issue. The fact that many hype models are still selling above msrp on the secondary market is mind boggling.

@thegorn

6 ай бұрын

It's not if you did economics in your 8 at high school and understand supply vs demand and how price brings them both into alignment.

In addition to the price the attitude of some of the retail store seem to think exclusive equals being rude and arrogant. The combination of higher prices and decreased experience is pushing me in other directions

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. Bought my Casio Duro when the market was low, I could sell it now and score a $15 profit.

@jeanlefranc3817

6 ай бұрын

That is financially a much better outcome than selling a Girard Perregaux 40% less than MSRP on the grey market.

Richemont group seems to be the leader in this massive slap in the face to their customers, but surely they are seeing fewer sales and perhaps their strategy is to sell fewer at a higher cost. Look at JLC with absurn 35 to 40% hikes in the most basic Reversos. They are cutting off their "entry" buyers.

Nicely timed.. ‘ Getting too big for their own boots’. So true, you’re hit the nail squarely on the head. Let’s hope that for some of these companies the penny drops, together with their prices. Otherwise their secondary prices will drop, which would not do them any favours..The market is finding its own level as demand for overpriced watches seems to be grinding to a holt..

Great values are still readily available for those who are willing to stray away from the herd. For example, just last month I purchased a like new Breguet Classique 5207 (retrograde seconds) in white gold for less than the grey market cost of a steel submariner. Too many collectors fail to understand the difference between cost and value.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

Agree 100% Jeffrey. Absolutely beautiful Retro... one of my all time favourites from Breguet. And in my case, just found a very special Breitling (launched in 2020) that all-in, I'll be paying £2,500 for. Love it when this hobby works out for us 🥃

@DWilliam1

6 ай бұрын

Yup, Breguet is still under the radar. Just picked up a Breitling SOH II, 42mm blue face, mint condition on the mesh with 3 years left on its factory warranty for $3195.

@atl3630

6 ай бұрын

Breguet is not for everyone. The designs simply don’t match modern clothing styles. And many are plain ugly.

@SuperMAYUSAMA

6 ай бұрын

I bought Cartier Pasha 42 in white gold and Red Gold Omega Aquaterra annual calender 38.5mm both with solid gold bracelets and both are cheaper than Steel Submarina.... We live in a crazy world.

I’ve noticed this for years now. I’ve also been in the process of purchasing an Omega watch with the salesperson telling me that if I don’t buy it now it will increase by 5% approx in the next few weeks. All the brands do it its standard practice. What concerns me is they can have a watch built in say 2022, sit there in the window for 2 years, each year having the 5% pay rise added to its rrp. So Joe Bloggs comes along thinking he is buying a brand new watch straight out of the factory when in reality he is buying a 2 year old watch at 10% more price. Also hype comes into it a lot. Look at Grand Seiko and Bremont as examples. Because of hype these watch brands have increased their price points by 30% - 40% over the last few years to a point they are not worth purchasing

@skzion2

6 ай бұрын

GENERALLY with Grand Seiko you are getting new movements or something different for the higher price, and existing models generally don't increase much. Certain new high beat watches are about 15% more expensive than the norm from two years ago. That said, their pricing for sports watches is weirdly high. But I don't care about those models.

I have walked into several AD's in the last few days and tried on some watches I have had my eye on. (Omega and Breitling) I walked out of each retailer with a NO SALE on their register.. I think many brands have priced out their watches beyond what they should be worth and more are greedily following suit Timely video brother. be well 🥃

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

A sad reality man... but hey! Tonnes of opportunity elsewhere 😉 Nothing we enjoy more than "the hunt" and finding pieces that maybe others never picked up on (for a bargain) Again, hope you had an excellent Christmas and New Year m'boy and thank you! 🥃

@thegorn

6 ай бұрын

Be a trendsetter and wear great-value microbrands. "Heritage" is for suckers.

A brand new Omega Seamaster on the steel bracelet will set you back 6500 €. Around 6 years ago, when the current Seamaster was launched, it cost 4500 € if I'm not mistaken. It's the same watch yet it now costs 2000 € more 🤯.

@randomnameindeed

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's just insane.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

I remember that time fondly... 2015-2017 was the time when I really started paying attention to prices of pieces (Omega especially) and man... it's changed so radically years on 🥃

@thedriver08

6 ай бұрын

@@ID-Guy It's borderline ridiculous in my humble opinion. Let's take the 36mm Explorer (124270) as another example. Back in 2021 it cost 5950 €. Now, with the new price increase, you're paying exactly 7500 €. Mark my words, one day a 6000 € Black Bay (at retail ) will be considered cheap compared to the other options on the market.

@thedriver08

6 ай бұрын

@@randomnameindeed Agreed 👍, when I think about the term insane, the price of the new Ingenieur instantly come to my mind.

@Jofuish

6 ай бұрын

I can't afford it but like the look of it but the local jeweller hiked up the price of the seamaster by 1000 in the last year and a half. Was around £5500 in October last year is now £6800.

I am so glad that I bought the more expensive of my watches to round out my collection (and most were preowned in excellent condition) two years ago, and also purchased my new Omega Speedmaster Professional at that time before the price increase. I think my collection of desired watches is quite complete now where I can hold off on any new purchases for now. Traditionally, when prices go up they don’t go down again. Even Longines, my favorite watch brand, that has a good value for price has raised their prices.

@jcnole77

5 ай бұрын

My first watch was a Tag Formula 1 and I got it for 899 5 yrs ago. it not sells for 1700. I recently bought a Explorer 2 and that was between that and a yachtmaster. I got the explorer 2 bc I thought it would hold up better and was a better everyday watch since I have a new seamaster smp. Well now I want that yachty with rhodium dial and something keeps talking me out of it every time I get ready to submit. It would really suck if I got it and watches went down in price. They are in high demand because middle class and just above are in that said demand now, take them out and the supply will be back very quick

Where I'm lcocated in Scandinavia Omega have increased their Speedmaster prices by 75% in 2.5 years and a hesalite Speedy is now usd9k. Sure it got an upgrade, but seriously? Visited one of their flagship stores recently. 5 staff and not a single customer...

I stopped buying retail watches 3 years ago and since then just second hand … sorry someone else is taken those big hits for me. No longer interested in Rolex or Omega due prices and longer wait now Nivada Grenchen or Citizen are being a great companion. Great content mate 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Spot on ❗️❗️

Absolutely spot on mate. I love Omega and the Moonwatch was my grail for decades. I nearly bought one for my 40th birthday but couldn't justify the £1600 price tag at the time. Fast forward ten years and I ended up spending £5710 on one for my 50th! Ridiculous how much they increased the price, even taking into account the new movement and inflation. They are now forever out of my price range at retail. I look to their sister brand Longines now.

@Franzino

6 ай бұрын

That is why some watch dealers use the slogan; "the best day to buy a luxury watch is today" ;) I understand your issue; I bought my Speedmaster (my dream watch) only some years a go and the same watch is now 3.000 euro more expensive in retail. Not sure I would buy it today at the current price, but really happy I did back then.

@BulletBeena

6 ай бұрын

Insane isn't it. the Speedy has increased by almost £1000 in two years.@@Franzino

Great video. I’ve been waiting for someone to properly address this. The price hikes have been ridiculous. I was at a Tudor AD last week and all but the new BB burgundy were heavily discounted…

Omega in Europe, +15% in the space of few months and their new client policy forbids price negociation, this turned me away from purchasing a brand new Omega.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

It's unreal. No price negotiations... unfortunately it's going to bite them in the long run I feel 🥃

@garyboyle695

6 ай бұрын

​@@ID-GuyThey are just following the Rolex model, sell less watches but sell them for more.

@MarkDoe-lg1kp

6 ай бұрын

They can +15 there prices to achieve -50 sales. Who in there right mind would pay full retail on these pieces?

@Franzino

6 ай бұрын

In USA Omega is less expensive then in Europe. Omega Speedmaster Pro Sapphire is $8.000 in USA and $9.500 (€8.800) In Europe.

@pinkbono

6 ай бұрын

@@Franzino take in consideration that the retail price in US is always being displayed "before taxes", so the prices are in reality more or less aligned at the end of the day.

Every watch brand needs to reduce their prices by 20-25% Watches are getting ridiculously expensive now and dont seem to be worth it anymore.

Great video, thankyou. There will probably be a smart watch crisis just like the quartz crisis. Most of my friends have smart watches. They all think i'm mad paying what people like us pay for a watch.

This is a great video and one that I hope is seen among the various big brands in Switzerland. I was driven away from the big brands years ago. I couldn’t justify owning a watch that was three or four months or even a half year’s wage (before taxes) when I could own a watch that kept reasonable time and cost less than 10% of a month’s wage. I turned instead to small micro brands and to vintage/used watches. Sure, there will be strange annoyances every once in a while, there will be trips to the horologists to get service, but adding it all up, I think the hunt for older pieces and/or the exploration of new companies dedicated to their craft and committed to their customers pushes the balance in their favor. None of my watches contain even a little bit of “cache,” but they are fun, they keep reasonable time and they haven’t cost an arm and a leg. These methods have allowed me to explore the history of watches while still remaining sane (more or less).

It's the same with bicycles. Three years ago €1500 was enough to buy a really nice bike with at least a Shimano 105 groupset. Now the same kind of bike will set you back between €2000 and €2500. Top tier bicycles now cost as much as a decent motorcycle. Prices just don't reflect value anymore.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

100% on this, found a 2009 Gary Fischer HiFi Pro with all the trimmings 2 years ago... Hope Hubs, DT Swiss Rims, Sram Derailleur, Carbon crank (all for a few hundred bucks) - fitted a dropper to it and some fresh continental tyres. And the kicker? Who knows what a Gary Fischer is today? 😉🥃

The market for run of the mill analogue watches is disappearing exponentially. Brands percieved as being 'prestigious' will survive with higher prices and less watches produced. We already see the middle brands scrambling for a place in the lifeboat. It seems that Swatch has deemed that as history suggests, Longines has every right to be the equal brother to Omega.

@marcosdoyter7460

6 ай бұрын

An interesting fact, in terms of number of pieces, Longines sells really well, comparable to Rolex. However, their average price per piece is smaller. The Swatch Group could raise their marketing investment on Longines and invest in new designs. But they don't do that. As a result, Cartier overtook Omega and is now the second luxury brand.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

Very well said, especially about Longines' reputation. Think we all hope for the glory days of these two brands... Longines, Zenith, Breitling, UG of the 30's - 50's... man they were unstoppable! 🥃

@MrFrontsidebus

6 ай бұрын

Cartier certainly has a future

@PaddleTales24

6 ай бұрын

You can see this with seiko particularly - they’re desperately reaching up market

@golfinguru11

6 ай бұрын

@@ID-GuyThey need to reissue the 13ZN military chronographs from the 30s-40s. It’s their only watch which regularly sells for close to 100k at auction. Even John Goldberger has a few. They won’t though, because a proper 13ZN would cost 321 Ed White prices and I’m not sure there’s a big enough market.

The thing is, apple watches have been getting more and more powerful and practical, for the same price every year. Meanwhile, traditional luxury watches have gotten more and more expensive, but for essentially the same quality of watch.

47 minutes of standing ovation!

I absolutely agree with this video and I'm glad a channel with a following such as yours is speaking out about it. Alongside Omega, Seiko is probably another huge offender on this issue and their recent aggressive hikes has removed one of the pathways that people tended to enter into this arena. Most frustrating part is that while I can understand their price increases (hey, it's a business!), it has not come with the requisite improvements in quality and so I'm annoyed that the level of disrespect toward the customer. Quite frankly this cycle of availability and pricing issues from the past few years has really drained this hobby of a lot of its joy. I know you don't have to own something to enjoy it, but I would've at least liked to have had the option to at a reasonable cost. Now that these two issues are still present, the potential pool of watches to try how has diminished materially.

As usual, you are spot on. Love the IWC Ingeneur but it is a cash grab. Particularly as it is a boutique only issue, so even more profit. As for Omega? Before the update the Speedmaster was around £4.1k now it's around£7.5k. Think we are already seeing the return of discounts as the market turns against the brands and enthusiasts look for value.

Purchased my IWC Mark XX new and got almost 10% discount. But that's the last time i bought a brandnew watch i will tell you that

I wanted to get myself a Rolex Oyster Perpetual for when I started university in 2021. I had been looking since late 2019/early 2020, when a 36 Oyster Perpetual with a blue dial was $7600. When I had saved enough to get one, the price had bumped to $8200. Then the pandemic came, shortages, secondary market and the whole shabang happened. Now the same watch is going for $9700, and the waitlist is still as long as it once was. It seems the possibilities of me getting one is long fading, as there are just far better alternatives for the price.

One silver lining is that the brands that have largely been disciplined and kept prices more affordable are being rewarded...Tudor and Longines come to mind immediately.

@ethanrumble5862

6 ай бұрын

If Rolex put their price up, so does Tudor the BB 58 blue is now £3450 it recently went up to £3090 before this rise

@billperkins4477

6 ай бұрын

Interesting @@ethanrumble5862 . The US site has the 58 blue on bracelet at 4K USD, only a little bit higher than when it was released in 2020 iirc.

@1984sebb

6 ай бұрын

Nonsense! I bought a Longines Conquest Heritage for well under £1000 about a decade ago. Their latest version of this watch is close to triple that amount..

@randys766

6 ай бұрын

Data to support, or just conjecture??

Good to talk about this topic. In my country (the UK), I think the access to either low or 0% interest finance is having a big effect. People are not as averse to financing a watch as they used to be. The car industry went the same way years ago with PCP and HP finance deals

@mrfreemin4321

6 ай бұрын

@@dsdf_fdp1858of course people do it, all the major stores have it as an option. Even if they have the money to buy it outright, psychologically it’s easier to make that purchase leap if they opt for a 0% interest pay monthly option.

The more we buy, the more the prices will go up. The minute we stop buying - the prices will plummet.

No way I buy a watch from the bigger brands with prices higher than 10k. 5k is the limit for me if it's and amazing watch.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

5K has become my limit too. Between 4k and 5k I can live with... beyond that? Even for a Rolex? Too much for me 🥃

They never learn. The cycle of overproduction and overpricing goes round & round. Next up: Grey market dumping and 80% discounts.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

...and we'll be waiting at the bottom with the biggest fishing nets to grab them 😉

@MK-mu7pf

6 ай бұрын

@@ID-Guy brother as you’re more knowledgeable than us, do you think price for Rolex Daytona 116518LN (meteorite dial) will come close to retail in near future.? Will we be able to buy that watch for retail price .?

@markotoole7937

6 ай бұрын

What a question 😂 he makes great speculative and though provoking content, he doesn't have insider knowledge or could predict something like that @@MK-mu7pf

@KeepingWatchUK

6 ай бұрын

@@MK-mu7pfalmost certainly not imho. Not that model. Sub maybe.

@MK-mu7pf

6 ай бұрын

@@KeepingWatchUK I only want one grail watch for lifetime. But that watch is over 100 thousand Dirham more than it’s retail. That much premium is not worth I think.

It has now been two years since I have purchased a watch (for myself) Couple of presents but that’s it. It’s over for me until it begins to make sense again.

Yep, the seamaster's price more than doubled between when i boight mine (2019), and today. Insane

I had a JLC Master Ultra Thin Moon which I bought at near-retail price 8 years ago (about £6k from memory). At that price I was delighted with the finishing and quality. Had I paid £11,400 (current retail price) I would be extremely disappointed. The quality is just not there to justify 5 figures I’m afraid.

Thank you for saying this. I retired during the COVID lockdowns. I had my sights set on a grail watch for my retirement. However, every time I was set to go buy it, the price went up, or the model was no longer available. In fact, just last week, the Tutor representative that I was talking to called and told me to buy that watch I was asking about, as the price was going up (again). So almost three years have passed and I have lowered my expectations and have still not purchased my retirement watch. With inflation on the cost of living and other spending priorities, I may never get that grail watch I had hoped for. As I continue to do my research, my wife telling me to just forget all about it. I will just have to settle for what I already have.

Some people will never buy second-hand. Maybe it’s a phobia, but getting a watch in original, pristine, and perfect working order is a pleasure in itself that we cannot deny ourselves.

@paulbird1808

6 ай бұрын

Life is too short to have these analyses, these speculations, about something so simple, technologically speaking, as a watch? Walk away people, & don't play their game? Prove who the more sophisticated one is - let them embarrass themselves. As someone else has already said, they were miraculously saved from the revolution of the quartz movement - in evolutionary terms, they should already be redundant? Don't pander to their new found vanities, like a 'has been' starlet that simultaneously makes an unexpected comeback , but demands a sky high fee, for gracing the stage?

For some reason i still can’t fathom, how can brand sell their own ‘used’ watches for more than their current models. I thought Rolex’s certified pre-owned program would cool the watches prices on the grey market but it turned out that Rolex was just as greedy and were selling their own used watches for a premium over their current retails. Its crazy!!

Price hikes should only be on new releases not on pieces that have been out for over 5 years.

I have noticed and it’s driven me to look at more affordable brands. Rolex aftermarket prices have dragged prices up for everyone. Some models seem to be piling up. Precious metals JLC ultra thin perpetual calendar for $50k Canadian. Yikes. Gold speedmasters also at that price. Fck no. Lately I’ve been collecting Tissot PRXs with different colours. It’s fun. Plus superclones are so good now you can’t trust the future value of hyped watches. I’m going sub $5K and looking out for handcrafted prices like Credor at the very high end.

I have to admit there really has to be a ceiling with all of these J-Curve price trajectories. Are we really supposed to readjust our minds to see Tudor as five, even ten grand watches? And for Rolex to raise to the skies like a helium balloon? How the hell does a brand like JLC survive when they have price hiked their wares so high with the value retention dropping like a stone? At some stage the glass ceilings for steel watches must be found. Then will the manufacturers have to rely on discounting by 20-40% to actually sell the buggers?

The definitely priced me right out of the luxury watch market. Bought a Speedmaster new in 2009 for $2,600. I wouldn’t buy one now. I could, but I absolutely wouldn’t. So I’m shifting my focus to quartz and microbrands. Bought a JP Customs pilot watch with a Seiko movement that is accurate to -4s and it made me very happy for $300.

As an enthusiast, it is defiantly hard to see these prices for watches increasing. I worked for some time to save up and buy a pristine used example of an Omega speedmaster racing 40mm for about $2,800.

"Voting with your wallet": This is exactly what needs to happen in order for things to return to normal. Savvy experienced watch collectors aren't buying at the top of the market, they're buying at or near the bottom. The critical point is that we need to continue sticking to our guns until all the newbie speculators leave the market so we can enjoy our hobby again.

I was lucky to build the bulk of my current collection between 2018 and 2021. I probably will stay there now.

Your point at 9:40 is spot on, IDG. Boil it all down and the consumer is paying for brand, the cachet that comes along with owning Rolex/Patek/AP/whatever. Though the "29 of 30 own Apple" thing is exactly why Rolex hikes its prices :-) The flipside: The tier 2 brand that tries to hike with the big players will cause its own destruction (remember Frank Mueller?), so opening the field for the Christopher Wards and Nomos of our world.

Truly excellent article. The Jerry Maguire of Horolgy ;)

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

Show Me The Money!! 🤣🥃

Excellent content as usual! 😃

Finally someone with his head on straight. This is the best presentation of the state of the watch market I have ever seen.. Bravo!

Swatch have even raised the price of the Moonswatch, they’re up 14.5% here in Australia - AU$380 - AU$435 😳!!!! I was going to buy a Speedmaster Moonphase this year, been keeping a close eye on them for 18 months. When I started looking they were AU$15,600, after 3 Omega price rises in 2023, they’re now AU$18550! 🤯 I nearly bought one last year from a watch dealer in Melbourne. It was 16 months old, full box, papers and in mint condition….AU9980! So what you say about second hand, is spot on 👌🏼

100% agree bought few ones last was 22 -12-23 now more 200€ 😳 hope these high end brands don’t smash into concrete like quartz crises!!! And our beautiful watches come down prices as well! Happy New Year mate!

Luxury watches, I only buy second hand and mostly semi-vintage anyway. So far I have been happy with what I received. Lower end and micro brand watches I usually purchase new.

Excellent. A video message from heart of enthusiasts to watch manufacturers. You conveyed what we collectors have in mind. Well done and I hope your video will be an eye opener for watch manufacturers ❤

As usual, a fantastic piece about an issue that is affecting true fans of watches. It’s possibly why I’ve now got brands like Christopher Ward on my radar as they do offer genuine value for a great quality product

@dellwright1407

6 ай бұрын

shame about Christopher Ward's Christmas Tree hour hands... lovely concept for the brand but design is a mixed bag with them. Lightcatcher case is excellent though.

I just got told someone bought a watch from the grey market at $345 above the current retail price for a 2023 model they was having difficulties with obtaining from an AD. So the brands might out price themselves. Great video as always bro 👌🏾

Great video. Yes my personal experience points to the same thing in that I don't now have the same interest in buying anymore watches. I have four luxury watches and they keep me happy. I have seen the rise and fall having been around since 2018 when I first got into it. Many utube channels have now gone or slowed down Bark and Jack and even Oiseen. Still like content though and yoùrs is great..

Watch collecting at the very core is a hobby driven purely by spending money and buying things. I've been interested in photography, bicycling, skiing, scub diving and many other hobbies that always has an element of learning, and developing as a person, learing a new skill on top of the equipment involved. Watches is purely spending money and it's leaving me feeling empty, and unfufilled no matter what. I've found happiness in a 20usd Casio and I think I'm done.

@rl7487

6 ай бұрын

You’re see right brother. I have spent lots of money on watches and lost much of it. I am now wearing a Casio and a citizen I got on sale.

Same here. I bought an Omega Aqua Terra a few years ago that I stupidly sold. Getting one now is so much more expensive. The only watch I own at the moment is an Oris Aquis with a sellita movement. I absolutely love it. The price hikes of the major brands and their snobbery have really put me off the entire industry. I'm only looking into watches by Oris, Longines and maybe Tudor now. I'm just going to get a few more watches to accompany my Aquis and call it a day with a 4-5 watch collection of more moderately priced watches. I'm not touching watches of the likes of Omega every again, although I used to love them. IWC and Rolex are also out for me. As I said, I'm increasingly put off by the entire industry.

Great video. It feels like Swatch group with their monopoly of brands have simply become greedy with all these price increases. There's far too many special/limited editions models being released for an excuse to raise the price even more, while most of the staple classic designs from brands that we love from the 60s are also pushed into unattainable price points. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth with how they refuse to provide parts to watchmakers in an attempt to force you to service with Swatch directly for a premium price and extended wait time. It has since shifted my mind set from wanting to build a collection, to owning no more than 3 watches.

Extraordinaria reflections, great graphic overlay, well written and very inspiring!

Well said, I agree with it all. But I think the thing to keep in mind is that there are more wealthy people than there has ever been, so the brands are reacting to this accordingly. Swatch are clearly pricing Omega to facilitate this market.

Outstanding overview of a market-wide problem. Well done!

Hi, great video as usual, can you make a video how you buy a pre owned watch, what to look about and more. I only have a traska summiteer 36 and I just got my first raise so i would like to buy my omega to celebrate. Ihr seid die Besten, macht weiter so!

Wristwatches just like cars of certain era appeal to certain generations of people which have sentimental. nostalgic or other feelings about them. We have two generations of people born in digital age for whom wristwatches are increasingly irrelevant. Just as cars from 1930-1940 are sinking in value at auctions same awaits mechanical watches. As generation that values them passe away and new generation does not see the same value in these items of vanity the watches will experience collapse in the next 20-30 years.

the price rises in the last 24 months has got out of hand if this does not slow down significantly most watch enthusiasts will be priced out of the market

Spot on! Is seriously sick moves for the brands increasing their prices. Awesome topics....

Very well done! This was an excellent analysis of what is happening to 😢 The luxury wath market and the future of mid and lower tier as wel!

This is really interesting. Having collected over many years modestly affordable Hamilton, Seiko, Tissot etc, to my surprise I seem to have largely lost interest after extending to a BB58. Every thing after that seems to cost disportionately more for what appears me only incremental gains in style, quality and innovation. An Omega Aqua Terra to example is nice looking, better quality than the BB58 but is the price difference really justified?

@mt24Carson

6 ай бұрын

Pre-owned is the way to go with Omega imho.

I've been irritated by the entire watch world (major brands, secondary market, youtube, blogs, and influencers) for at least 2-3 years. Yes I have bought a couple Tudors in the timeframe and several micro-brands. But I have continually stayed away from luxury brands because I believe that they drank the Kool-Aid and believe they are better and more refined than they really are. Do I really need a dive watch that is also a dress watch? Do I need 80-120 hours of power reserve and have to pony up double for the privilege. No and no. I've had my share of Rolex and Omegas (most have been sold on at no profit). Maybe in the future I might find myself returning and seriously look at buying one of these watches (Zenith or Breguet chronograph) but in the mean time I'm sitting back and getting a good laugh at the whole watch market, just like I did during the housing bubble speculation before 2008. I waited and bought my house at 63% off!

After nine months of coming back to watches after 25 years, I'm burned out. I bought several this year and I finally bought a high-spec quartz which is my daily.

The only problem is where to buy secondhand…grey market dealers aren’t trustworthy, watch box/watchfinder gives you a bad deal and private…there’s no way to tell how that owner treated the watch or what he has done to it hence selling the watch

The problem is price hikes the brands can‘t reverse them as it would defy the definition of luxury. Will be interesting to see what happens at some point when sales start to dwindle and pressure from lower priced brands mounts.

@HereForTheStories

6 ай бұрын

Suspect we will get back to where the Sales Exec offers you 10-15% discount at the point of sale

Great analysis. Consumers between 2020-2022 got caught up in a fever. And rather than thinking long term and seeing through it, manufacturers got caught up in the fever as well, raising prices beyond reason. At the end of the day everyone is human, but you think that the professionals would have a clearer perspective on current and future market dynamics than they've proven to actually have. Rolex will be okay. But Omega and many others will suffer. Tudor is poised to capture a lot of market share in their now evacuated price segment.

You hit the nail on the head and I think the Rolex price hike was the straw so to speak. I am an avid collection and with the newest Rolex price hikes I am less inclined to buy as many as I did before. It has put a damper on my view of the industry and now I have come to realize that instead of celebrating horology these brands are just out to make money. I will wait for discounts to occur or just hyper focus what I want to buy. But yes now it has become prohibitively expensive because everyone should be able to enjoy these watches,

Just bought an omega railmaster for 3200 dollar's. Just look out for great watches that are not hyped on youtube 😂.

@ID-Guy

6 ай бұрын

YES!! Nicely done Andre! Found a Breitling (I've been eyeing for 3 years) at the same price in GBP. Always look in the opposite direction 😉

Great Video, you bring up some very relevant issues.

Great content 👍🏻

Agree with everythign you've said in this video. The escalating prices and grey market interference in this hobby of ours has really spoilt everything. For me, my obsession with horology has become a real Jekyll and Hyde experience over the last couple of years. I absolutely love the marriage of design, technology and history; and I love listening to fellow enthusiasts, such as yourself relaying your thoughts and experiences. But the ever escalating prices are killing it for me. Add to this a particularly unpleasant experience in a Rolex Ad last year by a rude, snobbish Manager (where I've already bought two pieces over the last three years!!) and I'm more than a bit disheartened. Part of me wants to sell all my pieces and start a new passion/hobby - maybe go back to cars. But I can't help being drawn back in when I walk past a local pre-owned dealer, or enjoy a nice vid from a fellow KZread enthusiast over a whisky. Time will tell I suppose (excuse the dad-pun)...

This is the third time in 25 years this cycle has happened in watches. 2 things always remain: the harsh reality of markets/economics and people. There was a lot of the market fallacy of "this time is different" on the way up.. people say this every time. BTW it's never different. Unless something crazy happens the current watch correction is looking more like 2001 vs 2009. The watch market is returning to a more stable state last seen in 2012-2016. The price hikes are likely over but also because money printer go burrrr over the last 3 years these increases are endemic to the amount of paper in the world now.

People had too much money during Covid >> Brands sold too much >> Brands increase prices >> People stop selling... we will probably see price freezes for a while with low demand, etc.

@skzion2

6 ай бұрын

Well, you couldn't travel...