I retired as a Pentecostal/Baptist/Methodist church musician after 48 years and experienced every topic covered. Lost a huge portion of my adult life supporting the ministry instead of the opportunities to grow musically in various areas. If the sacrifice is not equal adjust your life accordingly.

@stratoalex

8 күн бұрын

Same here. Never got paid one cent with very little appreciation from the sacrifice.

@braxtonjackson_

6 күн бұрын

Hey doc. I love your content on your channel. It's people like you that inspire us young musicians to learn and grow our skills. Keep the vids coming!

@Soundofjoy

6 күн бұрын

@@braxtonjackson_ 2500 videos keeping traditional gospel alive and supporting church musicians around the world

You can rest assured that church that skipped out paying you, the Pastor did NOT go unpaid

@ProcessedDigitally

5 күн бұрын

lol

Reminds me of all the reasons I stopped being a church sound guy.

I have been playing in a church in Hawaii since 1976, (I was 19 and working my way through college). This was an unusual youth church where the leaders were young adults, (college and below) the pastor was an adult. I knew how to play the guitar but didn't know the names of the chords. At church I learned the names of the chords and one year later, they made me the worship leader. A few guitars a bass and piano. Since it was a youth church, we didn't get paid, I didn't care. Through this church, I learned about God, life and my purpose in life. I was the Singles adult leader, High School Sunday school teacher and Camp Director. I also got my dream of having my own band, (that went to old folks homes, etc.) playing our church music and some originals (Jesus music). One time I suggested we sacrifice our family time and go on Christmas day. It broke my heart, most of the residences had visitors. One elderly lady was clapping and a daughter on a resident was in tears praising God and thanking God for sending us. God then moved me to a big church (1980) to learn to become a sound engineer. It just so happened a sound company had just started at the same time this church was growing. So the church bought their equipment and gave us instruction. I went back into worship, but then God moved me to another church (1997) which became the fastest growing church in the nation. I sang in a men's worship team that met on Saturday mornings. Right after the World Trade Center collapse, the Men's Worship Team and Halau, (Christian Hula) went to visit the Fire Stations to give gifts, sing, dance and pray for them. I have been playing for a Christian Reggae band for the past 16 years, (we do original songs), then a pastor or my church asked us to help him open a new branch church. It was the first in it's history to start with a full band, (2 guitars, bass, keys, drums and percussion). So far I am proud that I don't get paid, (I have a career, its hard to make it in the arts in Hawaii). I am so blessed to serve God, with what ever talent I have. I have never played professionally, I enjoy playing for Jesus. I do listen to live music in the clubs, (I don't drink, either). The band would ask if I play, to which I would reply, "only in church." They would invite me to sit in, then aske me to join the band. I politely say no, I really enjoy playing in church. I found God brought me there to bring back musicians/singers the used to go to church. I also help dinner places and clubs with their sound systems, again not asking for money. God gave me the gift of salvation; which is free. Because of Him I can sing, play guitar, (Ukulele of course), drums and percussion). And no, I don't know how to read music. One time in a club, I requested the singer/piano player play Spain (Chick Correa). I sat in on percussion. I know the song, but never played or practiced it before. She later said Chick was her favorite piano player and I could play with her anytime. That was a God thing, you can't pay for those moments! This is my journey, I am not saying it's wrong to get paid, as long as the church can afford it.

everything you mentioned happened to me.....I was replace by a younger player that "fit" in with the music ministers kids that were on the praise team....so much wrong on so many levels. Felt like I was gotten rid of like a pet they no longer wanted.....It hurt. but life goes on. Important topic you addressed..... thank you for exposing this.

I played at a church with around 500 weekly attendees. Within the first year, I played at 24 funerals. That averaged to two funeral services per month. When I renewed my contract, I charged them $200 flat for each funeral. This exposed the fact that the church was initially requiring me to play for the services of people who were family members of church attendees (i.e sister Smith's cousin's ex-husband). That stopped immediately.

What about musicians who are not paid at all and still expected to have full availability?

@onnicahutchings8742

13 күн бұрын

I’m a volunteer musician. They get me for rehearsal and the service. Occasionally we have an extra worship music only service and a rehearsal is required for that. That is all because I also teach kids on Wednesday nights and I will not allow my study time for that and family time at home to be taken over by our music department.

@r2ndp

13 күн бұрын

I’ve never been played to play at a church. Never crossed my mind.

@davidgagnon2849

13 күн бұрын

@@r2ndp Many of us do it because we have been given a gift of music from God and we serve to thank Him for that gift.

@ronpierce8965

12 күн бұрын

Y’all don’t get it…. Your gift has nothing to do with getting paid it’s about u are providing a service and getting compensated for your time I guess u guys don’t value your time….

@davidlittle1711130

12 күн бұрын

I was a victim of that and was criticized in front of the congregation 😢

Thank you for this! Not only do musicians get exploited in church scenarios, but also sound and lighting people, to a horrible degree. They are expected to be at all services, and sound and lighting is supposed to be perfect, many times while also having to juggle a livestream broadcast as well. Hours are spent in rehearsals with choirs, etc... and some think that because they are "doing God's work" they shouldn't complain or ask to be paid. Here's the takeaway: THESE CHURCHES HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY TO PAY YOU. They are TAX FREE ENTITIES. They have not only the ability to pay you well, but the RESPONSIBILITY to pay you well for their church business, which is what you are doing/participating in - church marketing. Volunteer your spare time to help build shelters, meals on wheels, food banks, soup kitchens, things that actually HELP humans in need. Music is only there in the church to put on a better "show" and attract more people. It is CHURCH MARKETING. They OWE you a decent salary for your services. He and his staff are ABSOLUTELY getting paid, and probably VERY well. When it comes to using your talents for church business, get paid. Nobody needs another volunteer church musician or tech - except the church leaders. If you are not getting paid, ask yourself why. Churches have a way of making you feel like they don't have enough money - ever. This is the biggest bunch of BS there is. The church MAKES BIG MONEY off of your services, and you should be compensated for that. If you are not, you are allowing yourself to be exploited, and it isn't "for the Lord" - it is for a church leadership who would rather exploit you than do what is right. Don't confuse godly servitude with greedy church leadership. Use your servitude to serve people who actually need your help. Believe me, there are enough full-time musicians who are already exploited horribly in the club and circuit scene, getting a fraction of what they should be paid. Churches should be making the life of their musicians easier, not harder.

The whole scene in my country is completely different, church musicians are usually members of the church that play an instrument, volunteers and not payed. Most are no professional musicians. But when I had a band that was hired by a church, even my own church we got payed. I have no problem with that system and I feel highly appreciated by both churches I play (I am sort of detached to another church) even if not everything is perfect.

You ain’t never lied. Now, the church i was playing for was pretty straight forward. Knew the pay rate, paid on time, looked out on the equipment side, etc. i could not say the same for some of my fellow church musicians at different churches. Very unfortunate and most of these black, gigging musicians come from the churches so it’s really unfair to watch them abuse such great talent.

Thanks Terence for speaking about this important topic. A lot of the points that you brought up I can totally relate to.

Spot on once again bro!

I went through everything you mentioned as a musician. Funny enough, I went through similar things as a teacher. Go figure!

A very important topic

Not a professional musician. Played for my church for 20 years for free. Best times ever.

My question is where did the idea of music ministers come from. For example: Some churches are giving atheist bass players a ministerial position, it seems.

@r2ndp

13 күн бұрын

Exactly. They need to exhibit a godly life before getting on stage.

@davidgagnon2849

13 күн бұрын

Hey....quick raggin' on us bass players. Guitarists can just as easily be an athiest. LOL

@davidgagnon2849

13 күн бұрын

And yes, to give them a ministerial position would be WRONG.

@harrymalave1813

11 күн бұрын

This is where it goes wrong. It is not a stage. It’s supposed to be an altar and a holy place. If we think of it as a state we let all kinds on people up there just to have a great performance. Nothing to do with holiness and qualified spiritually to minister to other people.

i left church for 5 years and believe in God bc i was at church playing and being exploited i was practicing no having time to eat or sleep. i was playing every day losing time of my life and they started getting in my personal life at some point the environment got so toxic agains me bc they wanted the perfect life and my own family was letting them to get in my life and I decide las church service i over play got out that toxic church i got hate in my hearth bc inside me i knew that wasn't God... few months i started going back to others church's see what's best for my self the God ik now this vide is true thanks for talking about it sharing to people that the shouldn't give away their life for a talent and work that they do. for now in my house play for god by my self

Funny how you mention one such famous 'Gospel' musician. Before I knew what it was, someone took me to Hooters. There was this ultra-famous Gospel musician. Little discernment, massive worldliness!

Glad I started doing my own thing ‼️

@davidgagnon2849

13 күн бұрын

Please explain.

Wow thank you for this sir

I play on my prayer and worship team for free. No problem with that.

@r2ndp

13 күн бұрын

Same. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

@Chilla81

12 күн бұрын

When it’s that way you call the shots lol

It got on my nerves feeling like if I couldn't show up for a particular service or, Lord forbid, have to miss a Sunday morning, to where I felt guilty and felt like I was letting the church down. When I went to college, I moved out of state, which allowed a legitimate break in the action, and have never played in church since. BTW this wall all volunteer. They wasn't about to let me get up in all that sweet tax free money they was enjoying.

Most churches that I have attended do not have a very firm grip on what musicians are supposed to be about in service

This is why I think church music ministry shouldn’t become too big a machine. When churches themselves become too big they are more about gathering for a concert with a Christian TED talk rather than worshiping God, studying his Word, serving the community, and connecting with other Christians. That order is important as well.

Despite being surrounded by church musicians, I never felt like it was an accommodating place for me as a musician. Looking from the outside, I see several complaints about how musicians are demanded to deliver the best whilst being treated like second grade citizens and justifying that disregard using religion.

If there is no real commitment to the Lord, the hiringling is willing.

man, here I thought we were about worshiping Jesus.

I agree!! We have to be deserving of the pay we want or receiving…. And negotiate from the level at where are truly at

Played for years, demanded to be at church before every service and be the last that leaves the service, multiple rehearsals, multiple services throughout the week. Occasionall there would be a special event that demanded you be the whole week rehearsing and playing with high expectations from the pastor and leadership. Compensation, salary? Never. Always voluntary work. They use terms like "is your ministery, is the part you do for GOD". Yes, we love GOD and the community but expectarions are that you behave like a fully paid employee when you are a volunteer. To make matters worst if they bring a recording artist (minister whatever you want to call it) you would have to rehearse their songs as well or they would bring their paid musicians.

So good.

Listen to what you’re saying, this is so far removed from the word of God. If people come to church for anything else but the Gospel of Jesus Christ they’d be as well staying at home. The old piano teacher lady has a better chance of hearing “Well done good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of the Lord” If you are going to church to play music for wages and it runs like the world are you in danger of hearing “Depart from me I never knew you”. The world entered the church and its been downhill from then on. 2nd Chronicles 7:14

@MrSonrayz

12 күн бұрын

He’s not saying he’s going to church to be paid to play music but sooner or later most musicians that are at the church for most of the week. Need to get paid because that’s time off of work, time from their family this time they need to to live a healthy life. The Bible says give, and it shall be given press down, shaking together and running over shall men give unto your bosom. I know many musicians who are playing for churches and sacrificing their time charges and none of the churches are giving back, so please think about the musicians before you say they don’t need to think about compensation.

@patmidlam1927

6 күн бұрын

I played at church for 20 years and never expected a dime. The worship leader had a paid position and all the responsibilities associated. I just learned the songs, showed up for rehearsal and two Sunday services. Sometimes I volunteered for other things as well. We had some good musicians and some mediocre ones, but the focus was on praise, not Top 40 entertainment. As a musician I was often frustrated with the lack of musical excellence but I got those needs filled on paying gigs elsewhere. Sunday was a gift of praise.

I don’t go to a church with a “band”. I want the Lord lifted up, not a performer. And I’m a musician so I understand the appeal.

I've been in many music genres for 50+ years, and Church music the entire time. Finally figured pop/dance was a waste of mine & the LORD's time. I've made a real good bit of money being a worship leader. Most on the team are volunteers. All you said in the video about 'why you should not be a pro musician' definitely applies to 'Church musicians." I will add, they need to know the Word, consider themselves Pastor/Teachers and prepare so very much spiritually, then naturally!

I grew up as a classically trained pianist, so I never made it to an awesome church musician. however I just seen on the praise team.. i’m just a little confused as to why this is a job and not a service to the Lord? if I was able to be a church musician, I would attend that church and wonder my services to the Lord because I know it is he who has given me that talent.. I would understand if appreciation was giving every now and then. I am not judging I guess I just don’t understand

I’m lucky to have a great gig Sunday mornings. Now I’m spoiled and anything less will be not worth it at all.

Mate, I don’t know what world you live in. I’ve been playing music in my Church (in the UK) for best part of 40 years and have not been paid a penny. I’m a semi-pro musician, but playing in Church is an act of service that I do alongside my paid job.

I’m the worship leader and sound technician at my church. I get paid $627 a month. I think they’ve treated me very well. They let me choose the songs, encourage me to bring other musicians into the ministry, ask what kind of equipment I need, etc. I agree we shouldn’t allow ourselves to be taken advantage of, but also we’re not here to gain fame or wealth. We are working as unto the Lord and He sees all that we do. Taking your home church to court over missing wages is not appropriate, especially if it’s not your full time job- sole source of income.

Do you look at being a church musician as a job or as a service?

@user-ln2ds3em3c

2 күн бұрын

Both

Playing for free is fine… unless your calling is actually to be a musician. If you’re really called and equipped to lead and you get nothing for it, you have to neglect your family and your calling to meet your financial needs. Free is fine for beginners and hobbyists, but don’t neglect those called to commit their lives to service.

Classical musicians like Mozart and Bach had careers by writing church organ and choral music. But back then, tradesmen and artisans were able to survive properly off their art

Would love to hear you out, but the background music is highly distracting for me!

I’m surprised you did not mention as a sign of exploitation the lack of concern with the musician’s spiritual walk and relationship with God.

Yes

It is irresponsible to make a blanket statement that the church is exploiting musicians. Many musicians have been explored by churches, but many others are being treated fairly. One of the churches I play for, paid their musicians their full salary through the pandemic even though they didn't have service for months. If you are connected to the ministry you should know their financial situation and whether they are exploiting you, or doing the best they can.

Firstly an impressive beard! Church exploitation, putting this to one side a moment as artists we get exploited everyday, performance. No matter what master you might serve, or what venue you play at, we all get conned / pressured to perform a freebie. If you were a factory worker, done your shift. Then asked to move more boxes after finish, you'd expect paying / overtime. We do the show, then an encore but everybody wants more..1 more And another ( i get that some offer a rider so its not a physical payment / that's a whole different scenario ) but most venues don't but expect the show to go on, to sell more booze regardless of the 3 hour running time cause you won't be rehired upon refusal. I'll admit after 30 yrs some days get easier to turn a coin other's can be a daym struggle! Saying no ain't always a bad thing.

Is anyone surprised?!?!

God is the one who gave me these skills, and it is to God I reciprocate. As such, I wouldn't take a dime, even if they offered. If you'd like to see that as exploited, underappreciated... whatever. I'm secure with where I'm at with it.

You have to have a long guitar neck boys, that's all the high value single women at my church seem to care about.

Hello I just renewed my contract with the church however the next day at the worship meeting I was told my music is too loud at the communion service. I did. At rehearsals I’m being bullied by choir directress and we argue weekly. I am treated unfairly. Church never grateful. I am consulting my attorney and leaving.

@davidgagnon2849

13 күн бұрын

It may have been too loud. Sometimes we need to take criticism for what it may be; guidance. No one is right all the time. Please take time to pray about this. As far as this choir "directress", as you call her, that definitely shouldn't be happening. I'd speak with her first. If she won't listen and correct her ways, go to the pastor with another member of the team to discuss this problem with him. As far as you feeling that the church is ungrateful, why would they have just renewed your contract if they were ungrateful? They don't HAVE to pay someone to play an instrument, sing, or lead worship. They choose to, and unfortunately, sometimes that ends up making it like a real job and not something you just love to do. Before making any rash decision, please prayerfully consider all of this.

@barneshenry2744

10 күн бұрын

@@davidgagnon2849 My reply. This is reply for it may have been too loud. Looking back 1week ago I sent a letter to clarify to the committee that I only played when I was requested to play by the pastor The choir bully team had the volume controls over the sound system .I know it was not my fault. I was at the other end of church at the keyboard. But it’s ok next time I will not play at all .the church needs to repair the audio board so musicians don’t bet blamed for what we did not do. Thanks for your time.

Why wouldn't they exploit musicians, they do everyone in the church for tithes, offerings, special events, fund raisers, guest, on and on on on ! I am surprised they don't charge for parking!

@OnionSoup-yj2pf

13 күн бұрын

Wouldn't surprise me if there's a mega church or 2 charging for EVERYTHING

@VictoriaWhitlock

9 күн бұрын

@@OnionSoup-yj2pfthis

No surprises here.

It's called volunteering - we do it in service of our Lord and King Jesus !!!!! With a servant heart. Having said that King David paid his musicians and singers and the church needs to prioritise Worship and worship equipment. PLUS... Focus on Throneroom worship (vertical worship). In a church service / meeting the worship is the time in the service for God - the preaching and other parts of the service are for the congregation. In this current season God is raising up the Tabernacle of David - as was prophesied. Worship has to become a priority in church meetings. Notice how over the last decade or so a lot of new music coming out is direct worship of The Lord. I preach on this topic here. kzread.info/dash/bejne/oqWN29uyh6-_j5s.htmlsi=RVC8XZDz-fS6NOMm God bless you.

If you're playing for money you're playing for the wrong reasons

@VictoriaWhitlock

9 күн бұрын

I think it’s the time and effort commitment. And once you start feeling obligated to do something, you should gain something in return. Or rather, once they start obligating you.