I was an older mum and had amniocentesis for my babies. I knew I would have aborted if the results showed severe abnormalities. I just haven’t the mindset to look after a disabled child. I often wonder at the many people who say we shouldn’t abort/euthanise…..if they feel so strongly how many are working with the disabled? Or adopting the many children given over to care. I wait for the excuses! And there’ll be plenty. At least I’m honest.

@RIZ2NE1

Жыл бұрын

Disgusting monster

@leanzagilbert6933

Жыл бұрын

If it’s reasonable that you “haven’t the mindset” to carry and raise a child that you conceived, because it’s disabled then why isn’t it reasonable that others “haven’t the mindset” to adopt a disabled child and can still believe killing the child is wrong? Am I allowed to be worried about starving children and the policies that could help and harm them if I do not adopt those children?

@AnimatedBlast

9 ай бұрын

Life isn’t a gift. Life is cruel, and hard.

@magnuscritikaleak5045

9 ай бұрын

One word Autism, is cruel.

@justafan9665

3 ай бұрын

Congratulations on honestly admitting that you are extremely selfish and always and only put your own conveniences first.

The question here seems to be: given that parents refuse treatment for a serious disease (in which the baby's lifespan is very short, say 6 months), should the baby be subject to 6 months of suffering, or should the parents be able to euthanize the baby in order to limit that suffering? Not such a terrible argument. I think people are misrepresenting Singer's argument here. Granted, he probably shouldn't have used spina bifida as an example, since the lifespan of a baby with this disease is significantly higher than 6 months (though this interview looks old, and may have been recorded in a time where the lifespan was much lower). Regardless, the core of his argument simply doesn't seem as appalling as people make it out to be.

@DucatiQueen

6 жыл бұрын

hope you got good insurance and never become seriously ill.........because you may become a useless burden on the system !!!!!!!

@Ajsandborg

6 жыл бұрын

D90girl, that's a very sophisticated counter argument you got there, Having nothing to do with euthanasia or suffering or the right to die :D You can't compare being seriously ill with being born with a horrible disability that will cause you to suffer for your whole life and eventually kill you. It is a different thing to experience life, and then become sick, than to be born sick and never experience what being healthy is like, only constant agony and pain, not to mention that babies don't really "Experience" stuff the same way that adults do anyway.. Pretty basic stuff, but not for everyone i see.

@notyobidness6218

5 жыл бұрын

@@Ajsandborg you sound all backwards with "right to die" who gives you the authority to deny anyone's RIGHT TO LIFE

@jarongarrison6775

4 жыл бұрын

But but but but... the baby has a right to life?!!! Pro lifers don’t care about the suffering of the baby 🤣

@jarongarrison6775

4 жыл бұрын

ls7orBust2 you are sick the whole reason for abortion is so they don’t have to do that

Margret Sanger would be so proud!

This video, in the times we live in, gives me hope in humanity. Probably not for the reasons you think, but it does 💛

@gregoryjones7712

Жыл бұрын

Hmm in what way ??

I agree with him but I might be biased since I don't have children yet. Spina Bifida is a Neural tube defect and a lot of times goes hand in hand with Anencephaly. Which is a totally fucked up birth defect with no chances for living because huge sections of the brain are missing and they generally don't live for more then 6 months in horrible pain. Tough choice, but if abortion was too late or unaware of the seriousness, then infant euthanasia should be an option for the legal parents of sound mind and body that is balanced with justifiable medical methodology. Why left the infants suffer any more then they have too?

I don't know the laws in AL, but what do you do when you have an emergency c-section where one baby is born, but on the medical records, words like infanticide, and a diagnosis of POST PARTUM & POST ABORTION WITH O.R. PROCEDURE? NO DR INFORMED EITHER PARENT.

In these comments: people who misunderstand Singer completely.

@BlackCroLong

5 жыл бұрын

We understand him actually. He's just an idiot

@mikebasketball11

5 жыл бұрын

@@BlackCroLong How so? Curious to see a concise demonstration.

@tylerpedersen9836

4 жыл бұрын

Or people who understand him perfectly yet still find his moral views reprehensible...

People "pull the plug" on unconscious loved ones on life support every day. A lot of that is going on right now with the virus. Is that unethical or illegal? The answer is no. It's humane.

@archibaldpl9741

3 жыл бұрын

It doesn't matter, it's a murder.

@patrick101ducoing4

3 жыл бұрын

Archibald Pl call it what you will man but don’t you think that sparing somebody from a life of suffering is humane? Because what’s the point of living if you literally can’t function at all? If the quality of life is so beyond low isn’t it better to pull the plug? Just picking your brain a little

@archibaldpl9741

3 жыл бұрын

@@patrick101ducoing4 I believe that we (humans) are not wise enough to decide about the meaning of someone's life..... In addition, practically, Mr. Singer's approach sooner or later leads to abuse. It's always easy to decide about someone. Such stories took place in the Third Reich, where the lives of entire groups were deprecated, based on valuing people's lives (e.g. T4 aktion).

@lojoha7214

3 жыл бұрын

@@archibaldpl9741 Murder indicates malicious intent. Euthanasia indicates compassionate intent. Huge difference.

@archibaldpl9741

3 жыл бұрын

@@lojoha7214 It doesn't matter if you kill someone with compassion or anger. The Nazis killed entire psychiatric hospitals - supposedly out of compassion - this does not mean a good idea.....

I believe that we (humans) are not wise enough to decide about the meaning of someone's life..... In addition, practically, Mr. Singer's approach sooner or later leads to abuse. It's always easy to decide about someone. Such stories took place in the Third Reich, where the lives of entire groups were deprecated, based on valuing people's lives (e.g. T4 aktion).

@anweshakundu1667

3 жыл бұрын

A patient who is unable to move, in their body, having the sense and fully awake , but In an eternal doll like state unable to communicate, to walk, to give consent, to do anything, with their daily routine being just a soul trapped in an unmovable body, That is Huntington chorea I can tell you about a lot of such diseases, with worse situation, where you are actually not living like a human being, not dignified, but a perpetual hell. Do you really think this life is really a blessing, a boon ?

@archibaldpl9741

3 жыл бұрын

@@anweshakundu1667 I don't think anything, because I have no right to think for someone ...

@iraceruk

2 жыл бұрын

@@archibaldpl9741 Not even a close family member or friend who may be terminally ill, in great pain, with no hope of recovery and who has made a Living Will that gives you the 'power to think for them' and act on their behalf to fulfil their wishes? Living Wills are important for those who are currently healthy (just in case), and compassion is vital when it comes to those who don't have a Living Will or are born with terrible incurable diseases that mean nothing but pain and anguish. Compassion in that sense being what Singer is talking about here.

@val3454

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah well the ability to recognize when someone is in obvious pain is called having a brain

@archibaldpl9741

2 жыл бұрын

@@val3454 Having a brain is not a prerequisite for feeling pain - you can have a brain and not feel pain (e.g., congenital analgesia).

Oh my god did he just suggest euthanizing infants with spina bifida???? This is so horrifying to me. I know of two fully grown adults that were born with spina bifida. My cousin is in a wheelchair-bound but I promise you shes glad nobody euthanized her. My best friend has a fully grown sister that was born with spina bifida, but she can walk fine and is married now.

@lojoha7214

4 жыл бұрын

Their cases obviously weren't as severe as the cases he was presenting. My cousin's daughter died after two months of excruciating pain. It was horrible.

@john1425

4 жыл бұрын

@@lojoha7214 I'm so sorry to hear that. Thanks for helping me understand better.

@pamelabibby8642

4 жыл бұрын

i stick up for people with spina bifida my workers know people with spina bifida so singer will have loads of enemys if he discriminates spinia bifida people

@john1425

4 жыл бұрын

@@pamelabibby8642 he's not discriminating against them he's advocating for them

@john1425

4 жыл бұрын

@@pamelabibby8642 advocating is when you "stick up" for someone. I don't understand how is he being evil towards them? You want to kill boring people?? This response is so bizarre.

well i'd just like to say this is my story and personal feelings which does not pertain to anyone else with a disability except my own as a person with multiple disabilities spastic quadriplegic/aka cerebral palsy which makes me have to use a electric wheelchair severe curvature of the spine 63 degrees to which they say nothing more can be done avascular necrosis of my right hip and a ileostomy bag to which they also say it can't be reversed i can't drive i can't bath myself dress myself cook for my self etc and the odds of me ever meeting someone let alone have children is next to 0 and i wouldn't blame them and it would be wrong of me to ask anyone to give up their whole life just to take care of me for the rest of our lives so after being told i would be a vegetable because of my mother's ''lifestyle'' my parents asked the doctor to pull the plug if i had no quality of life but the doctor said oh no that would be murder regardless of how severe my suffering would be for the rest of my life so my parents went to plan b and signed all their rights away the jokes on them though it's their loss since i'm obviously not a vegetable and i was adopted by two of the greatest parents in the world especially my daddy but inspire if all their love and support at the end of the day i still suffer severely not just physically either trapped in a body the size of a 12 year old as helpless as a child my point is because people in the medical profession could not put their personal feelings aside in the work place 31 years ago i suffer trapped in a body the size of a 12 year old that i cannot control the only good thing about this is that someday i will die nature will do what should have been done long ago and i'll finally be at peace i just wish i could have had something to look forward to other then suffering in my future going to bed every night for as long as i can remember begging god to just let me die in my sleep because a miserable life is no life i just hope i don't have to wait another 31 years and it's swift and painless unlike my life

@pamelabibby8642

4 жыл бұрын

god loves you and hates singer don't be upset think of us anti abortionists catholics on your side and your mum loves you ok

@leslieviljoen

4 жыл бұрын

I just want to say I'm so sorry you have had to suffer so much.

@pamelabibby8642

4 жыл бұрын

your parents sound very creul and of course you should be looked after you have rights to live don't let bastards tell you different think of yourself you have got rights

@pamelabibby8642

4 жыл бұрын

sorry about your creul parents they should get a taste of their own medicine you do have a quality of life I hate how people who are not disabled are very selfish to those who are and that's what stops there quality of life not impairment people should look after you you have rights

@d4vin446

4 жыл бұрын

@@pamelabibby8642 do some fucking research before u use something in an argument hitler did kill disabled people

I still don't understand how popular it is to want to have kids.

Ahh the common philosophical differences

Better to go out before the incredible suffering ensues

@michaelchapman6925

5 жыл бұрын

Who decides, you?

@papajohnsdimsum1564

4 жыл бұрын

Except Singer extends this to diseases that are easily treatable not to mention he's justified raping disabled people.

@neverstaydown5118

3 жыл бұрын

I agree

@user-dh5vx8ob7y

10 ай бұрын

@@michaelchapman6925 Good question, why should you decide?

@joshuaneal7552

2 ай бұрын

@@michaelchapman6925 You're sick if you'd rather see an infant suffer immensely for less than a year and then die in incredible pain. Just sick.

Yet people believe a god exists???? Impossible

@archibaldpl9741

3 жыл бұрын

Why should they not believe?

@ScottSullivanTV

Жыл бұрын

@@archibaldpl9741 There is no god. A being who is all-good and all-powerful would not allow this to happen.

@archibaldpl9741

Жыл бұрын

@@ScottSullivanTV Are you God to say what God should and shouldn't? What would He allow and what should He not do? You are saying this from a human perspective, not from the perspective of infinite divinity. From a religious perspective, earthly life is worth nothing..., besides giving a field to show faith, principles and good / love. Even from an atheistic perspective, it is all the more worthless, as it has no real purpose. Human decisions and earthly affairs are only human affairs and activities. Only life in the heavenly homeland is everything and makes sense.

@theone-nj7mi

3 ай бұрын

​@@ScottSullivanTVdude people trying to die are more insane than those who want to live.

So many people here who react off of emotion

@jarongarrison6775

4 жыл бұрын

ls7orBust2 dude really? You put “right to life” above suffering and torture? You’ve got sick twisted priorities

@jarongarrison6775

4 жыл бұрын

ls7orBust2 actually I do I’ve experienced it because I have a disability myself, ya a lot of people “suffer” but it’s nowhere near the shit disabled people deal with

@jarongarrison6775

4 жыл бұрын

ls7orBust2 wow you are trying hard to justify this aren’t you. TBH if this is how you think you’ve got no sympathy for disabled people

@jarongarrison6775

4 жыл бұрын

ls7orBust2 “killing another human being” it’s fetal tissue. Nobody fucking said anything about wanting to kill themselves if that’s what you think I am implying

@jarongarrison6775

4 жыл бұрын

ls7orBust2 “private property” is that your only argument?

How he puts it in the end seems like he’s just asking for a baby with no chance of survival to die sooner and it really makes no difference so why are the opponents coming after him. However, he has said that he would be in favour of euthanising disabled infants who in his estimation would have a poor quality of life already. In this instance these children could live with surgery, he briefly but clearly states in the video that the decision of ending the life should be between the doctor and parents having analysed the facts of disease. He therefore subscribes to the parents having the power of ending the life even if there are alternatives so just maybe Mr. Singer that is where the problem with the opponents are, do not pretend that it’s all about ending suffering when the baby is set up to die anyway, you are very much in favour of euthanasia when there is a chance of long life with medical intervention in certain cases or rather for the parents to be allowed to make that decision perhaps if I can qualify that for you. To anyone that says that the child should be allowed to die in dignity and the child itself might want to be put out of his/her misery, that is bs, in order to euthanise someone it has to be done with a person who can give consent, it is not your place to take life not knowing what such an individual would want, there are many people who suffer from various ailments and chose to press on and live.

@mikebasketball11

5 жыл бұрын

And there are many people who suffered from those ailments and killed themselves out of sheer desperation for relief. You're not looking at the entire picture; there is a burden of consciousness - in some sense it is only ethically pallatable insofar as, not only is there no consent but importantly, none can even be given since there's no 'rational agent' in the mind of an infant yet. I'm not saying babies aren't conscious or have no value blah blah, I'm saying that consent is an irrelevant issue here because it's literally a non-issue (young infants can't give consent). The point is that in scenarios where the disease is life-crushing and the infant is not yet fully self-aware to be caught in the tragedy of a life of suffering coupled with the innate desire (for some) to fight on... perhaps there would be some that would have chosen to have never been born, such that they avoided the saga all together. I'm open minded to it, and I'm a strong libertarian.

@notyobidness6218

5 жыл бұрын

@@mikebasketball11 and they took their own life didn't they? Yes. Someone else didn't take it for them, but I will go even further and say it is a sin to even take your own life, God is the giver and take of life, not humans, who do you think gave you your life, not you yourself. Where do you think it came from. Clearly from our beloved Creator yahweh

@mikebasketball11

5 жыл бұрын

@@notyobidness6218 . . . Ok think critically for a second, please. We're debating the ethical validity and line between libertarianism and consequentialism ('individual rights' vs 'maximising good'). It's intellectually arrogant of you (and kind of weak, if I can say that, strictly speaking) to simply bring up God as if it were an accepted premise, and assume I'd agree with you on that premise. You haven't even demonstrated the existence of God. Where do I think my life came from? The combination of my Father's sperm cell & Mother's egg cell. Simple biology, you'd have learnt that in school, right? And if you ask "Where did the first life come from then?" I can use that same regressive reasoning and ask "Where did God first come from?" "Oh, he's eternal." How logically convenient, and empirically UNFALSIFIABLE.

@lojoha7214

4 жыл бұрын

@@notyobidness6218 Actually, the parents give the baby life. Not the bearded fairy in the sky. So it's their choice.

Our ability to care for severely handicapped infants, as well as all others requiring hospital care, is only possible due to medical technology and an affluent society. This affluence has resulted in wholesale environmental degradation and inequality at a national and international level. So it comes down to a question of whether a severely handicapped infant in an affluent society is more important than healthy infants in poorer countries or infants yet to be born. This is an easy question to answer.

@AlanLiefting

4 жыл бұрын

@Passeron but it is at present. One way of having both protection of every human and no environmental degradation is to aim for a global population of about 1 or 2 billion.

@isiahs9312

2 ай бұрын

False dichotomy

How convenient to just decide whether or not YOU think someone else should live...

@nielspemberton59

5 жыл бұрын

U papist/Evangelical DUPE !

@AdinBriggs

5 жыл бұрын

I don't think that's really the argument here. The argument is that; we know these babies won't survive without severe medical intervention/will not survive at all, their already short lives will be lives of suffering only, therefore, we ought to end the life of suffering as an act of compassion. Should a life be purely suffering in such a way that there is no measurable quality to it? That the quality of the life is only measured on the amount of measurable pain and not the amount of measurable happiness?

@AdinBriggs

5 жыл бұрын

@ls7orBust2 "I'd rather die starving and suffering than die "nicely" without my right to do whatever I WISH with MY body, which is MY private property." But you cannot make that choice for another being, especially one that isn't *you.* You say that it's your body and your choice, and it is, and it's *your* body and you've no right to inflict choices about *your* body and *your* life upon another's. This is a "think about the children" argument you're using and inflicting your own set of ethics upon two other beings; the parent, making the choice for their child, and the child itself.

@AdinBriggs

5 жыл бұрын

@ls7orBust2 you've missed the entire point and are arguing a different subject.

@notyobidness6218

5 жыл бұрын

I know how arrogant of him

I know someone who had spina bifida, he said the doctors told him parents that he wouldn’t live longer than 4 months. His parents pushed for treatment anyway, and even moved to another country so that they could get the best treatment for him. Now he’s married with children, and he has a mortgage and a stable job. Does his life have less meaning just because there was undoubtedly suffering in the first several years of his life? The problem with Peter Singer’s conclusion on this matter is that he assumes that the doctors always know what is best for us. Because the parents assume doctors know that their baby will die, they don’t bother trying to seek treatment, leading to a self fulfilling prophecy. A doctor can make mistakes regarding the health of a patient and likelihood of successful surgery. A doctor with the power to euthanise babies will almost certainly abuse that power, especially if they can morally justify it with Singer’s preference utilitarianism. The real wrong was assuming the babies will die, and then letting them die with no treatment. The doctors do not know for certain if a baby will die, and not treating them is an evil inaction in and of itself. The euthanasia is taking that inaction and making it action. Singer is right that euthanising them is no worse than letting them die, but letting them die is also morally corrupt, and playing God with the lives of sick infants. Ironically it seems like ignoring what the doctor says gives the baby the best chance of surviving.

Sometimes babies are so malformed/ill that there's a tiny or even 0 chance at any semblance of a normal, happy, healthy, dignified human life. They might live a short life filled with terrible suffering. And then there's the medical costs and care costs that in the UK we all have to pay for, money that can't be used on others.

@isiahs9312

2 ай бұрын

Given that you have decided that you have the power of life and death where do you set the line?

Disabled people have a right to live if able body people do

@hardheadjarhead

2 жыл бұрын

What if they don’t want it?

@deadore

2 жыл бұрын

Do you support abortion Nicole?

@how-to-live-right

Жыл бұрын

if they require other people to sacrifice their life so disabled can live, caregivers should have a say

@joshuaneal7552

2 ай бұрын

You're sick if you'd rather see an infant suffer immensely for less than a year and then die in incredible pain. Just sick.

its always Easier to say Some other group don't deserve to live , a lot of people said this about alot of Groups , racial , religious and disabled . I personally Believe the Whole Of Humanity needs to be purified and meant with the same standard All must past through the Flames to live in this new Order and it will be door by door and person by person. Pure judgment

THIS IS SICK! EVERY CHILD DESERVES A CHANCE AT THEY'RE LIFE! SO MANY PARENTS WITH CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES THAT ADVOCATE FOR THEM& BE THEY'RE VOICE! SICK

WOULD SINGER LIKE MY EX BOYFRIEND HE WAS A VILLIAN HELD PEOPLE HOSTAGE I HAD A LUCKY ESCAPE BUT MY EX WAS CLASSED AS HANDICAPPED AND DISBLED WITH MS AND HE WAS A SKIPSO SO WOULD SINGER LIKE HIM OR WANT TO KILL HIM?

@lojoha7214

4 жыл бұрын

Get some therapy, lady. Quickly!

This is horrific. Why are babies with spina bifida being left to die in the first place? The NHS website says, "In most cases of myelomeningocele, surgery can be carried out to close the defect. [...] It is likely that children with spina bifida will survive well into adulthood. It can be a challenging condition to live with, but many adults with spina bifida are able to lead independent and fulfilling lives."

@mmeers89

8 жыл бұрын

the success rate of a child and that of a baby are WAY different.

@omp199

8 жыл бұрын

Martin Meers A baby is a child, in this context. Don't start playing word games.

@mmeers89

8 жыл бұрын

+omp199 but a child's body is less fragile.

@omp199

8 жыл бұрын

Martin Meers The page on the NHS website is not making a distinction between "babies" and "children" and comparing the two.

@tyler9804

8 жыл бұрын

he is talking about infants not children

Some day, you yourself might become vulnerable to being at the wrong end of a so-called ethics committee decision. Integrity and trust in our doctors, hospitals and general society is best served by everyone knowing their lives will never be cost-benefit analysed to death. Do you want to be incapacitated under such kind of care?

@AM-dm8ou

Жыл бұрын

Some day, you yourself might become vulnerable to being at the wrong end of a so-called "pro-life" "ethics" committee decision. Some day you might find yourself in a position of not being able to decide for yourself, and being exposed to daily, unbearable pain, unimaginable suffering and dispaire. When that happens you will need people who, unlike you, have the balls to think about these unconfortable, heavy things and that try their best every day to understand what would be better for a person in this situation. I hope when that time comes you will have decent people who will REALLY try to understand what's best for you and what you would have wanted, instead of going on social media saying cute, fashionable frases to feel good about themselves. Cheers.

@helihobbit

Жыл бұрын

@@AM-dm8ou having been around those in distressing pain while dying, I have not observer your fears playing out. Palliative care, pretty much by definition, means prioritizing pain relief over length of life.

@how-to-live-right

Жыл бұрын

yes, I wouldn't want to be a burden for my family, I want them to be happy

"Kill human babies? Oh yeah! Kill a fish? WTF is wrong with you!?!?"

@Martin-xu4gf

3 жыл бұрын

Kill a suffering fish? Oh yeah! Kill a healthy fish for your taste buds? Go fuck yourself.

@remotefaith

2 жыл бұрын

Try thinking rationally about it for more than 5 seconds and you might be able to figure it out.

@woosh2055

2 жыл бұрын

You clearly don't understand his arguments

Let the children decide if they want to live and no one else.

@archibaldpl9741

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly

Singer is a hypocrite. So euthanizing a disabled baby is fine, but euthanizing a disabled puppy is heinous?

@nocucksinkekistan7321

4 жыл бұрын

No, he'd support both

@sodalitia

4 жыл бұрын

He never said the latter. Take off the picture of Rick from your profile as you are a disgrace to all the Ricks. You are such a fcn Morty, who thinks he has the moral right to go around and correct Ricks, and than things go f. upped.

@redd-qh4xn

Жыл бұрын

Well people intentionally create dog or cat with deformities for their entertainment is mess up tho.

Not all life is equal. I support this. It’s a gift to the child. For those who disagree, disagree but leave ME out of your argument. I stand by what I say. Only the fit are meant to survive. Euthanasia is best for all involved, especially strong genetic societies.

@heinzrich

4 жыл бұрын

about time someone addressed the taboo elephant in the room

@mosesking2923

4 жыл бұрын

@@heinzrich Quite simply, human beings are not dogs to be euthanized when they become financially costly. In fact, there are many people who have MORE anger towards killing of dogs for that exact reason.

@archibaldpl9741

2 жыл бұрын

"Not all life is equal." It sounds Nazi and exclusive ...

What Singers radical utilitarian view does not take into account, is the future prospects of how society will be once the sanctity of life is removed. Euthanasia and Abortion are ultimate cases of slippery slope. Singer just assumes that pleasure or the flourishing of well-being is synonymous with the Good. He never argues for this definition though. Simply assumes it, quoting Bentham and harrowing cases of human and animal suffering. But this is emotional, the logical knockdown argument for such a definition of the Good takes only two minutes.

@omp199

7 жыл бұрын

Then please could you spare two minutes to give us the knock-down argument?

@matthewfrazier9254

7 жыл бұрын

John-Paul Stuthridge THINKING PLANTINGA HAS EVER MADE ANYTHING NOT RETARDED EVER

@AshHouseware1

6 жыл бұрын

Hi John, as a fellow atheist - no. Anything is subjective. I am not arguing against morality, or that we should strive to find good outcomes or better ways to look at things. But we have got to admit, that anything relating to what constitutes a good life is a matter of perspectiveand priorities. EDIT: Stupid example - say my absolute priority was the survival of humankind and I´d advocate for regressing to pre-industrial times. As to counter the spread of disease, simple, take away the ability of people to travel ... blabla, Pol-Potism all the way. You see, its horrible and i do not subscribe to this, but it might work to keep humans around for longer on this planet.

@Ajsandborg

6 жыл бұрын

You're going needlesly deep into this. Just like a person going through a door doesn't have to prove that the door isn't just a simulation in the matrix, the nature of "good" or how it relates to well being doesn't have to be completely solved to be able to think about this subject. We do not have to have an objective view on suffering for example to say it's bad (even though there might be situations where it is justified) but we can still generally agree that when you feel pain, it hurts and 99% of people don't like it and you can test that theory any time you like by stabbing yourself to the leg etc... You don't need a books worth of metaphysics to get to an agreement about that with most people, unless they are total snobs

@lojoha7214

4 жыл бұрын

People "pull the plug" on unconscious loved ones on life support every day. A lot of that is going on right now with the virus. Is that unethical or illegal? The answer is no. It's humane

i agree down syndoms should be put Down Down

@68waddy

4 жыл бұрын

Timothy your grandparents fought against a nazi Germany to stop this sort of treatment of people with disability. You have a vile,evil mindset

@pamelabibby8642

4 жыл бұрын

@@68waddy i think singer has a vile evil midset i think he is worst than the nazis i like to stick up for down syndrome people and spinia bifda people they have rights to live singer doesnt have any right to live

My mom is a paraplegic ..paralyzed from the waiste down from a birth injury. .Had multiple surgeries...almost died...and she grew up with great parents..and miraculously had ME. SHE WAS A WONDERFUL MOM...ALWAYS THERE FOR ME ...I HAD A NORMAL CHILDHOOD.SHE TOOK ME TO THE BALL PARK. . GIRL SCOUTS. PLAYED WITH ME She was more involved in raising me then most other moms i knew who were of perfect health...because they were lazy or just let the kids play by themselves. I wouldnt trade my mom for any other mom in the world. This is so disturbing to me.

@curlybrackets6783

7 жыл бұрын

This discussion/debate is not about your mom or people who are mild to severely handicapped - I am convinced that everybody here respects them, agree that they lead a fulfilling, valuable life and are worthy members of society. But there are sometimes much much worse "cases" - i.e. situations where there is almost no recognizable quality of life and only suffering and pain as well for the children themselves as for their parents... This discussion is about such children.

@SamMcinturff

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah. The fact that your mum had such an engaging relationship with you is proof enough that she's not the kind of person that Singer is talking about.

@Amateur_Pianist_472

5 жыл бұрын

AC'sUnq1et M1nd this is about people who are so disabled that they can’t experience any quality of life. A paraplegic still has some independence. A quadriplegic with an iq of a two year old has none.

@MrChristK

5 жыл бұрын

@@curlybrackets6783 it is relevant. People with spina bifida may often have no mental handicap, but be paralyzed from the waist down, however, such babies are often aborted. And yes, they would often require multiple surgeries to survive, such as draining fluid from the brain, correcting the feet, covering the exposed back, etc. So it does in fact apply to this argument. Singer was talking about babies that were neglected and therefore dying.

@SK-2503

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrChristK As mentioned before, nobody here talks about babys who are solely paraplegic - and nobody today aborts them - are you silly??? Btw. a baby with fluid in the cerebrum (i.e. hydrocephalus) most often IS severely mentally handicapped and thereby not solely paraplegic. (you seem to have no medical background). In fact it is the decision of the parents to have and raise a severely disabled child - because it affects their life and plans for the future. I would not raise a severely handicapped child like a mongo - never ever/definitely not neither would I raise a otherwise worthless creature like a baby without a brain etc.

disturbing!

@memememememe515

4 жыл бұрын

@Dr. Evil yes evil is brilliant.... that's how it's taking over....

@tylerpedersen9836

4 жыл бұрын

Indeed. The world is becoming more and more wicked, more and more blind.

@memememememe515

4 жыл бұрын

@Youssef Houaoui "evil can become good and vice versa " OK SATAN! If you say so.... By the way.... How is in Hell?

@memememememe515

4 жыл бұрын

@Youssef Houaoui "i explained to you how evil evolved" And I see how he has you in his hand.....

@memememememe515

4 жыл бұрын

@Youssef Houaoui when the time comes.... everyone will know! until then..... everyone can read the comments in KZread :))))))))))

phil sing what ever your name is you and singer have severe autism my abusive ex has ms and asperrgers was it ok to kill him as a baby?

It's vegan!

This is largely a moot question. Genetic engineering is nearly mature and promises to eliminate the need for such life and death decisions.

Well this a dangerous narrative

singer should get karma and be made to feel how he has made mike journey feel and the word handicapped is aimed at loads of people even abused women and singer should be put in intensive care

@timothywait9457

4 жыл бұрын

He will he and Dawkins are partners

@pamelabibby8642

4 жыл бұрын

@@timothywait9457 good i hate him it makes me feel better him getting karma he causes me depression

@pamelabibby8642

4 жыл бұрын

@@timothywait9457 who is dawkins ive just found out he is married to renata and has kids he could hurt his wife and think she is disabled he could do a rolf harris on his kids his wife and kids need protecting

@theselector4733

3 жыл бұрын

Who's Mike Journey??

I GET ANXIOUS IN THE MORNING BECAUSE OF SINGER WHY ARE PEOPLE SO NASTY SO DEPRESSED I WAS ABUSED BY MY EX MY EX WAS HANDICAPPED SO WAS MY GRANDAD GRAN AND DAD SOMANY PEOPLE SINGER THINKS SHOULD NOT LIVE HATE CRIME IS WRONG SINGERS MUM SHOULDNT OF HAD HIM

someone pls tell me why people think us anti abortionists and us who are against harm to children and us who hte pidos us normal people who dont harm children why do people think we are the ones who need to see a therapists why isnt it pidos who need to see a therapist

@pamelabibby8642

4 жыл бұрын

@Passeron ive watched it he makes me sick he thinks it would of been ok to kill my grandad at birth he makes me sick i hate him i want to kill him he is worst than the nazis at least they didnt want to kill the disabled

@TheCheweeRevolutions

4 жыл бұрын

@@pamelabibby8642 you think nazis didn't kill the disabled?

@patrick101ducoing4

3 жыл бұрын

Mel Hawk when a women is pregnant it is no longer just her body. She contains a separate organism that she most likely voluntarily took part in putting there. And what about the father?

He can´t see how it is upsetting to disabeled people, that he is giving doctors a justification, so to speak a moral standpoint, enableing them to do what they do without remorse? Sorry, what they do, - not treating these children - is, as omp199 pointed out, not right in the first place. Not only that, he gives proponents of euthanasia a feeling of moral highground, he turns the tables, so that parents of disabled children have to justify their decision to raise this child. Following that reasoning, you have to qualify to be a part of humankind. There are conditions to be met. And he wonders how this ellaborate edifice would get people on the barricades, wonders why "militant" disability movement people are up in arms? Words change minds, minds determine action, action that in this case may result in death. He is the threat. Not the particular doctor.

@AshHouseware1

8 жыл бұрын

One thing in advance - I was a little aggitated when i wrote the comment because of his use of the word "militant" that marks him to be polemic - i do think that the matter at hand is too serious, - and his approach to it is too mutch opposite of that, what is deemed to be accepteable, so that he really should not slip into this witty little outdishing, but simply take the serious criticism... well, serious. I´ll answer you on rest in time. PS: - to put this further into perspective, on the serious-taking-stuff... i went to a talk on evolutionary humanism he gave in germany for an atheist organization, and there it was the very same thing - the ones opposing his eugenic ideas were, in his mind, religiously motivated and so on. I swear, he dogded the words deluded and lifers by inches.

@mmeers89

8 жыл бұрын

+Adam Flynn as much as I think, I couldn't be open about my opinions. The common people are aggressive assholes who see in tunnel-vision so the don't see things the way a philosopher said. I would snap and start flipping tables.

@curlybrackets6783

7 жыл бұрын

He es talking about very very severe cases of disability where the child would have no living quality at all but only pain and suffering for the whole (even with optimal treatment) very reduced life-expectancy.

@omp199

7 жыл бұрын

People who argue for euthanising disabled people always trot out this mythical figure of the human being whose life is nothing but pain and suffering, but they have never been able to demonstrate the existence of such a being in real life, which makes it an absurd basis for an argument.

@curlybrackets6783

7 жыл бұрын

It is very easy to find at least one of these children, singer is talking about (imho), on the internet. His name is "Jaxon Strong" alias Jaxon Emmett Buell and from his first day on the poor little boy is totally unaware (because he has no cerebrum - but only a brainstem). Jaxon is hard to watch, because he is seizing 24/7, whining and screaming almost all of the time. When he (rarely) is not screaming for pain he is laying there motionless, unaware and drooling. His parents sell him as "miracle" - but there is no miracle at all. He is used as income-source for the parents who belong to this incredible "Pro Life" movement which attempts to put society back to the deepest medieval standards conceivable and who torture their child frequently. On the internet the poor little boy is a sort of "Rockstar" with around 400.000 followers - but in reality it is only the very sad story of a maximal severely disabled child and his delusional parents.

Mandatory active euthanasia should be performed upon infants who are born with disabilities. It would be an act of care/suffering mitigation, not cruelty or with eugenic intentions. Parents should have no say in the matter because what gives them the ethical right to allow their imposition to suffer. Biological facts should be the sole determining factor. Life in of itself is a burden. Who wants to be “double dog” burdened with a lifetime of agonizing disadvantages.

@christibaldridge2199

3 жыл бұрын

Do YOU have children?

@efilwv1635

3 жыл бұрын

Christi Baldridge Absolutely not. I am against procreation because of how burdensome existence is. It’s cruel to force a child to suffer for your own selfish pleasure. The only objective problem in the universe is sentience. Therefore, the only objective solution is a peaceful extinction of all sentient life.

@christibaldridge2199

3 жыл бұрын

@@efilwv1635 if you DID have children..and just take a while to sit and put yourself in a parent's shoes. Would you want decisions regarding your child's life to be taken out of your hands? While I can see some of your point, I can't imagine someone else coming to me and informing me my child will be euthanized due to his condition and I have no say. Thats bordering on Hitlers actions, taking Jewish children from their mothers to be gassed or poked and prodded or God knows what else. Its Communism, which the Liberals are wanting in the US now. SICKENING.

@christibaldridge2199

3 жыл бұрын

And you ask the question of what gives parents the ethical right to allow their imposition to suffer...what gives ANYONE the ethical right to say who lives or who dies regardless of disease or affliction?

@christibaldridge2199

3 жыл бұрын

@@efilwv1635 if you're so against life and think its so burdensome..why are you still breathing? You may take my questions as being hateful or sarcastic..but, I'm merely asking.

CREUL PARENTS THEY SHOULD OF BEEN FORCED TO HAVE A CHILD PERHAPS ITS THE PARENTS FAULT THEY ARE DISABLED

Singer, you have all Hitlers desires....................i wonder what he became

Bro people gotta stop having freedom of speech lmao be quiet.