Attached below is an article from one of the leading protestant scholars admitting to the protestant ecclesiology problem. ⬇️ danielbwallace.com/2012/03/18/the-problem-with-protestant-ecclesiology/#:~:text=Protestants%20felt%20truth%20was%20to,splinter%20off%20from%20each%20other.

@matrixlone

Ай бұрын

What about the magesterial Authority problem

@deadalivemaniac

Ай бұрын

Wow, Dan Wallace wrote that? Now that’s something.

@matrixlone

Ай бұрын

@@deadalivemaniac wowzers..

@matrixlone

Ай бұрын

@deadalivemaniac what about the catholic, /orthodox magesterial Authority problems??

@hirakisk1973

Ай бұрын

Great article, thank you for linking that!

I was a Protestant minister for 10 years and I think I was self delusional about my calling. Happily Orthodox now and happy being just an ordinary Parishioner!

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

Glory to God! ☦️

@jonmack2437

Ай бұрын

Incredible humility!

@GuitarJesse7

Ай бұрын

Glory to God

@navigator687

Ай бұрын

Such an amazing comment

@first_last2740

Ай бұрын

Welcome home!

Bro, I've been saying this for a while now! The Ancient churches are more united doctrinally/liturgically and are foundationally similar without Sola Scriptura, then protestants are with it... let that sink in..

@EricAlHarb

Ай бұрын

Aren’t you reformed?

@redeemed354

Ай бұрын

No, I used to be...

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

@@redeemed354 it's a problem many protestant apologists try to act like doesn't exist.

@emptynester9241

Ай бұрын

@redeemed354. I was thinking this same thing yesterday !

@NavelOrangeGazer

Ай бұрын

The fact that the antichalcedonians, antiephesians, and the Orthodox have more in common liturgically than half of the protestant world (Lutheran, Anglican, episcopal) to the other half (baptist, nondenom, etc.) speaks volumes.

I'm 66, and I was born into evangelical Protestantism. Late in life I walked away, was received into Eastern Orthodoxy (Antiochian), and never once looked back. We've been seeing exponential growth in my little mission parish with young families, but particularly with young men.

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

Amen! Seems like a ton of growth is happening across the board. I know at least a couple churches currently undergoing a building project to expand! ☦️

@triggered8556

Ай бұрын

Same at my parish. Half the church seems to be catechumens

@markholmes6799

Ай бұрын

Our little parish (in southwest Virginia) is growing, too, especially with young men. My understanding that this is happening in a lot of places.

@matrixlone

Ай бұрын

​@TheTransfiguredLife what about the magesterial authority problems withing your church? . I've made a video using andrew wilson and lauren chen Please respond

@triggered8556

Ай бұрын

@@matrixlone quoting Jake the Muslim metaphysician discredits everything you have to say lnao

Perry does such excellent work in addressing a number of issues related to Protestantism. He helped seal the deal for me as I was leaving evangelicalism.

The bible sums up Protestantism. Judges 21-25. "in those days there was no king, and everyone did what was right in their own eyes."

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

Lord have mercy! So true.

@ronaldfelix1000

Ай бұрын

I admire your isolationism. Keep biting the hand that feeds you.

More Perry Robinson please!

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

☦️🔥🔥

I have been a Baptist for more than 40 years. I started reading and studying the Church Fathers and I became a Catholic, along with my wife and 21 year old son. The change was not so difficult as we landed in a Parish called Saint John the Baptist, so we keep being Baptists in a very peculiar sense. But we ended up accepting Catholic teaching on topics such as Church, Papacy, biblical canon, Baptism, Purgatory, Eucharist, Sacraments, Mary, Saints, Relics or Icons. This change was a surprise to many and even to me.

@wildrover9650

Ай бұрын

You are part of the great falling away. I am not protestant.

@ronaldfelix1000

Ай бұрын

This is an Eastern Christian video, we Catholics are damned

@apmoy70

26 күн бұрын

​@@ronaldfelix1000Wow, self-awareness, a true virtue

Perry bringing facts, the vid he eventually does on Ortlund is gonna be immense.

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

All ill say is: This is going to be an interesting summer! ;)

@UnworthySeraphim

Ай бұрын

I have BEEN eagerly awaiting this video since he announced on the interview here. I keep checking every week or so to see if it dropped and I missed it or something. Sadly, it still remains in the bonds of production :(

You could almost divide the protestant world into two camps. The pre ecumenism camp (denominational exclusivism) and the post (nondenominationalism and evangelicalism). Essentially for the past 70 years or so there has been endless tension between these two camps and numbers wise the nondenominals have won. All the mainline churches in my town will be graveyards in 10 to 15 years they have no members under 55 at most of them the youth all fled for the glitz and glamour of the rock show megachurch spectacle. Those who try to have their cake and eat it too in an attempt to draw the youth back either end up completely collapsing on moral doctrine (episcopalians, umc, pcusa, elca, etc.) or cant rectify their historic confesional doctrine and the issues and collapse of any binding doctrine brought on by protestant ecumenism. The Orthodox being pretty much the only Christian body post Vatican II to not have caved into ecumenism and actively preach exclusivity creates immense problems for post ecumenism protestants who try to play it both ways. Its also worth noting that America was essentially seeded by protesant sects that were veiewed as reprobate heretics (puritan calvinists, anabaptists, quakers, baptists etc.) by those in continental Europe. That's why they fled to the "new world" for "religious freedom" in the first place.

I hope Orthodox apologists start talking about the huge issues with the influences of Proto-Protestants, and then Protestants being neo-gnostics, like the Cathars, Bogomils, and Pualicians. In almost every doctrine that Protestants differ from Roman Catholics, those views are found in gnostic groups that crept into Western Europe about a thousand years ago.

@NavelOrangeGazer

Ай бұрын

Don't the trail of blood baptists directly trace their "lineage" to these groups in their fanfiction timeline of history?

@NepticFathers

Ай бұрын

@@NavelOrangeGazer Yes, but they are like "hey bro, don't believe anything you read about them because Catholics, Orthodox, Armenias, etc. who wrote everything we know about them are big meanies, but we know the true history which is contained in books now no longer available". Oddly enough they are descended from those gnostic groups with a mix of Catholic doctrine. I have a couple books like what you mentioned, which are Landmarkist, and they are so factually incorrect that it is like reading cult literature, which it basically is.

Fantastic talk

For me, it WAS the Scriptures alone that brought me to Orthodox. I was a soldier in the Army with often no access to any church due to constant deployments & training. Then, after discharge from service, i worked for the Army Corp of Engineers, a job that was 3 rotating shifts with very little time to attend any church. (There was no orthodox in my area) yet i read and listen to Scripture daily. After constant examination of Scripture itself, that IS where i found so many inconsistencies and lack of proof for many modern protestant dogma. I searched several "non- denominational" churches only to find them worse off than before. The modern protestant church no longer has any stability and every individual is their own church. So It was out of the blue that i remembered that orthodox Christians even existed & i began my search. It was all thanks to the Holy Scriptures. I cannot see how Scripture is over the church nor can i see how the church is over Scripture. Rather they agree as one. It would be as an attempt to remove a beating heart (Scripture) out of a live body ( The Church) & then expecting it to live.

this was a good video that of a size that is chewable and digestible for most. Thank you all for your continued work

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

Thank you Father! ☦

Can you post the full stream this is from in the pin or description?

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

Done! ✅

“The calling” to pastor was always a difficult one for me. I asked my pastor before graduating high school how to know if I was being called to be a pastor and his approach was just to doubt my “salvation experience” and then try to scare me out of being a pastor (if he could scare me out of it then I wasn’t called). I’d spend years wondering if I was truly “saved” and then struggled if I was desiring to be a pastor of my own choice or if God was calling me. I’d have all sorts of people tell me I was gifted in teaching and if I brought up questions on being a pastor it was just said God wouldn’t have gifted me in teaching if I wasn’t being called. Yet, I kept seeing in the Scriptures this affirmation of the calling with the existing Church leaders laying their hands on the new leaders and bestowing that authority upon the new leader(s). I eventually had a pastor sign off as a reference to go to seminary but it too felt like I was somehow skirting the issue. In some sense I was making the way for me to become a pastor by going to seminary and by applying for youth pastor jobs to “gain experience” and then I was trying to make the “right” connections/network so that once I graduated I’d finally be called by a church to be their pastor. Even when I got installed as a pastor of a small church it seemed off. It was during Covid and so I had the District Superintendent and the church leadership “spiritually” lay hands on me (to maintain 6 feet) and then they recited a promise to uphold me as their pastor and submit to my authority over them as their shepherd. Since the DS got the hebee jebees just thinking about washing feet 🦶 he instead installed me as pastor with a plunger 🪠 and told a story about how serving as a pastor isn’t always glamorous and sometimes you gotta do the dirty jobs no one else wants to do. I used to wonder what might’ve been had my pastor when I was a teen not try to scare me out of ministry and caused me to fear if my salvation was just a work of my own imagination and where I’d be at this stage in my life (feeling as though I wasted 10+ years really trying to sort it all out). Then comes along the Orthodox Church and says God gives us all things for our salvation! While I was working out my “am I saved or deceived and never had it or lost it salvation” and whether or not I was “called to be a pastor or not” that was the very thing leading me towards the Orthodox Church long before I ever knew it! When I sat down with my priest now (then just inquiring) he asked me what my view of salvation was and I told him it gets me in trouble as a Protestant pastor, but I see it happening in three ways: when you call on the Lord you’re moving towards God to be saved, but as you’re walking with the Lord daily you’re being changed/transformed and so you’re BEING saved, and if you’re faithful in walking with the Lord allowing Him to change you then one day you WILL BE saved. He just looked at me and said, “That sounds awfully close to Orthodoxy.” I then laid out my understanding of Original Sin being not about guilt inherited from Adam but inheriting the consequences of his sin, a world filled with Sin and Death, and that we sin because of our own ignorance of right and wrong and that our desires that are shaped by the sinners in our lives (from those who raise us, to other family, friends, strangers, enemies, etc.). He once more said, “That sounds awfully Orthodox of you.” He then proceeded to flesh it out and something all the more incredible happened I hadn’t expected that day. Where I came to test doctrinal truth and see if I could get on board with what doctrines were taught in the OC, I experienced God as he spoke! It was as though for the first time I didn’t see grace, mercy, and humility as distinct individually definable concepts belonging to God or describing Him, but rather they were all woven together and I could “feel” them on me, in me, and flowing through me. It was as though this water was gushing forth from what the priest was saying and as I sat there in awe of not what he was saying per-say but whatever this was, I quickly felt like it became a raid and violent flood overtaking me and yet in this world such a flood would elicit fear and panic, I felt as though I was drowning in peace and love while being enveloped in Grace, Mercy, and Humility! Our priest called my wife and I into his office to ask us to begin praying about meeting with our Bishop and the priesthood. He said he can’t make me a priest but he is going to contact our bishop to see if he could sit down with my wife and I to talk and just see where it goes. My wife initially said when I was looking to join the OC (she was really resistant initially) she felt I would become a priest. I told her I had this immense peace about resigning from my pastoral position even though I had fretted over it and strived for it for years and that by joining the OC I probably would just be a layperson the rest of my life and so I had no plans to pursue the priesthood. She felt as though I wouldn’t remain a layperson and I’d become a priest. I kept trying to assure her of her fears of this happening (for some reason she feared it, but also feared and resisted becoming Orthodox). Yet, she was persistent in telling me as we went to our inquirers meetings and eventually catechumen class. So when he called us into his office to suggest that we meet with the bishop she was like, “Ha, I told you!” I was like we don’t know that yet. If he blesses off on it then I’ll know it’s God’s doing and not my own. If he says no then I’ll be a layperson, maybe a deacon so as to help the priest (he’s 74) or a subdeacon to assist him in as much as I can. It’s amazing to see her transformation! She was all over the place when I went down this path. She was so extremely emotional (20 years of being married I never seen anything remotely close to that level of emotional distress from her). She dreaded me being a pastor (bad experiences early on) even though she told me I should be one. She even asked why we couldn’t just go to a nondenominational church if I was just unhappy in our denomination. Today, she’s fascinated (right word?) and excited. She’s always prayed a lot but now she’s all about praying 24/7 and feels that nothing in Protestantism ever made her feel this close to God and she’s like, “I just want to draw as close as possible to Him and if that means for you to become a priest then you better become a priest!” I’m excited for this change in her, but I just hope if becoming a priest isn’t God’s will she’s not devastated by it.

@joelbecker5389

Ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing all of this. My wife has also been resistant toward my interest in Orthodoxy. She is open to hearing me talk about some things, but there are hurdles she can't get over (e.g., she grew up in a "we are the one true Church" kind of denomination, and she now has a very negative reaction to anything along those lines). Recently, when she and our kids were sick, I went to the Orthodox Church by myself, and later she told me through tears that she thinks we should just go to different churches and "agree to disagree." That I take one of our kids to the Orthodox church and she takes our other child to our current church. I told her I don't want to split our family like that, and she feels better now. She even has a few disagreements and discontentment with our current church, but doesn't see it as reason enough to leave. I am praying she will open up to the Orthodox Church more and that God will lead us both, united, to the truth of his Church. I want us to be united and confident in our church, wherever we end up.

I was wondering if you guys could do a video on the Orthodox understanding of the life of Mary? I’m on my way to becoming a catechumen but this is something that puzzles me still, especially since it is so poignant in the calendar year. It seems like a lot of the tradition is depicted in the Protoevangelium of James but I’m not sure how Orthodox relate to this text or how much of it is viewed to be historically reliable? Regardless, it seems there was a pretty consistent oral tradition about Mary within the early years of the church. I’ve found it hard to find info on this outside of Sts Gregory Palamas and Maximus the Confessors’ books on her life. Perhaps my approach is wrong?

@josiahalexander5697

Ай бұрын

Also, the Catholic and Orthodox generally have slightly different understandings which further adds to the confusion of this topic. Were the relatives of Jesus his step-siblings or his cousins? Was Zachariah, the father of John the Baptist, the High Priest of the Temple? Is he the one who Jesus spoke of in Matt 23:35? Was Christ born in a cave or in a house? Was the Holy Theotokos truly the first one to see the Risen Christ? Etc..

Protestants that established a place of worship in a building are only opening their doors for a group prayer session. All it is a Bible study and prayer. The Bible study is a cafeteria buffet smorgasbord of cherry picking what a particular reverend or minister wants to talk about to the people in attendance. Then you throw in a bunch of modern rock and roll pop music labeled Christian music, and that is the sum and substance of what goes on. Sure, a group prayer service in a building is not a bad thing per se, but it isn’t enough to get the people to heaven. The people need sacraments by ordained people that are successors to the original apostles. Also, as great and important Paul is, he wasn’t an original 12. No doubt the original 12 laid hands upon Paul to travel and preach the Gospel teaching of Jesus. Paul’s letters as great as they may be, they aren’t the same weight and authority of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Luke’s Acts has more weight and authority than the letters by Paul. The bottomline, I will take sacraments every time possible in the Latin Church or Orthodox Church ( maybe not the corrupted Russian Orthodox Church which is controlled by Putin ). I think Orthodoxy has a big Russian problem given all the centuries of beliefs interjected in Russian orthodoxy that is outside what was established by Constantinople for centuries and when Constantinople was the Eastern Church center of thought and teachings and liturgy until Islam defeated the Byzantines in the 1400s.

@acekoala457

Ай бұрын

If the Russian Church is controlled by Putin, where is my Paycheck for being a Reader in it?

It will be interesting seeing his content on Gavin Ortlund and if it changes my perspective on icons at all.

@Jake-ek2le

Ай бұрын

@@crossvilleengineering1238 if you watch the original 2 part stream, he mentioned an upcoming project on Ortlund. It’s going to be a wide analysis of sorts from what he said on the sources and arguments of Dr. Ortlund. You can even see an exchange they had in the comment section on one of the videos.

@timboslice980

Ай бұрын

When the church discovered the Ethiopian christians in 330ad they had icon veneration. When the malabar indian church was discovered in the 1500s, they had icons as well. Are we to believe these churches independently invented icon veneration out of thin air? Neither of those churches held to sola scriptura. I mean it’s so simple so obvious that Protestants are wrong on that one.

@NavelOrangeGazer

Ай бұрын

​@@crossvilleengineering1238Perry has a multi hour critique of Ortlund in the works.

I like this discussion and am not trying troll. I am asking as an Eastern Orthodox inquirer, but how do the Protestant communion issues described contrast with Eastern Orthodox communion issues either Constantinople vs Moscow or, the recently resolved and less controversial, Antioch vs Jerusalem.

@UnworthySeraphim

Ай бұрын

I think the fact that those schisms, as sad and terrible as they were/are, are formally structured and can be formally resolved as we see with the Antioch/Jerusalem schism. Protestantism is the wild west of religion. Their lack of any sense of normative authority leaves a gaping hole in the hopes of any universal Protestant unity

@matrixlone

Ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z5uMxJOgh5XNhco.htmlsi=19Qyp1TxtWix0U3v 1hr 5 min mark he talks about the different communions within orthodox

@matrixlone

Ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z5uMxJOgh5XNhco.htmlsi=19Qyp1TxtWix0U3v

@matrixlone

Ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z5uMxJOgh5XNhco.htmlsi=19Qyp1TxtWix0U3v

@ronaldfelix1000

Ай бұрын

They don't construct my dude, it's a sweep our dirt under the rug so we can feel superior to everyone else's tradition

😊

Protestant response. The man is an Evangelical who graduated from Evangelical schools and seminaries. He does not come from an historic Protestant tradition (Anglican, Lutheran, Reformed). He is hardly a Protestant.

@pedroguimaraes6094

Ай бұрын

They want to talk about protestantism while have no idea about what were the ideas of the reformers and which Churches still follow those ideas. They will put pastor Joe's Starbucks Church in the same bag as a traditional Lutheran Church and pretend they are talking about the same thing lol

@acekoala457

Ай бұрын

Who? Perry? He grew up Episcopalian.

@paulsmallwood1484

29 күн бұрын

@@acekoala457 The Episcopal church is now apostate. It is longer a part of historic Protestantism or Christianity for that matter.

Also, re: LCMS and WELS not having Pulpit and Altar Fellowship: How is this any different than when one jurisdiction within the Orthodox Church no longer recognizes another jurisdiction, yet both of them remain in Communion with every other jurisdiction?

@ScroopGroop

Ай бұрын

It isn’t.

@emmap1159

Ай бұрын

The Orthodox have the divine liturgy that unifies them. Protestants don't.

@NavelOrangeGazer

Ай бұрын

Not really since WELS and LCMS have no larger conciliarity that binds them beyond. When there is a break between two Orthodox churches such as is ongoing between Constantinople and Moscow they remain in communion with the other local churches. To my knowledge no protestant body has a setup like this.

@marcuswilliams7448

Ай бұрын

@@NavelOrangeGazer The Orthodox option makes less sense. Moscow can say to Constantinople "We no longer have communion with you" and Constantinople can say the same, but if they are both in communion with everyone else, they are, in effect, in communion with each other. This is just another example of an Orthodox apologetic that sets up an "unbelieveable" standard for others that they themselves likewise suffer from.

@acekoala457

Ай бұрын

​@@marcuswilliams7448 This is how the 1st Millennium Church operated. There have been Communal Breaks between individual Bishops, while maintaining Communion with mutual groups. While there is some co operating within Mainline Churches, it still has the problem that they don't all believe the same things.

Actually there is a record of how ministers (elders) are to be chosen and the criteria for it. They can be found in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 to name a few. There is however written record of laying of the hands in electing elders. Theoretically speaking all the Christian believing churches that have history of an elder succession dating back to the ecumenical councils could trace their roots to the earlier church fathers. Meaning the Protestants could also claim they are apostolic since Luther was ordained through laying of the hands of the ones that were elders before him.

@palermotrapani9067

Ай бұрын

Luther was a Catholic priest, he was ordained by a Catholic Bishop. However, Luther was not a Bishop thus he could not consecrate a priest as a Bishop. The Anglicans retained proper Holy Orders till the time of Crammer until he revised the Rite of Ordination which then called into question the validity of Anglican Orders.

@OpieApproved

Ай бұрын

@@palermotrapani9067 Timothy was not a bishop. Ananias wasn’t an apostle. If you know why I pointed them out, I wouldn’t have to spell it out for you. Step outside of doctrines of men for a moment and look into the words of God given for teaching us in the right ways and you may find some clarity.

@palermotrapani9067

Ай бұрын

@@OpieApproved You seem to think your modern American Protestant group has it all figure out. Your tone "you need to spell it out to me" suggest a tone of arrogance. Actually Timothy was a Bishop (1 Timothy 3:1-2). Titus 1:7 again is talking about a Bishop. The Greek word used in both of these Pauline epistles is in fact episcopes which is Bishop, one who oversees, etc. Even the original King James Bible translated by the Anglican/Church of England translates it as Bishop. Modern American evangelicals, free grace types and fundamentalist rural groups translate it without distinction because to translate it as the early Church who was there from the start and how they understood it contradicts your ecclesiology. The word in both places is not Diakanous (which is where the English word Deacon is derived from). This word is used in 1 Timothy 3:8. Finally, it is not Presbyteros which is in reality just talking about an elderly man, vs younger immature man. This word is used in 1 Timothy 5:17 where the Presbyteros are to be given double honor. The reality is modern American Protestants, who are the theological novel group, think they invented Christianity. The reality is the early Church that the Apostles founded was not geographically in regions North of the Alps where American Protestantism got its roots. If you want to talk civilly then we can do so, but your let me spell it out to me attitude is not going to fly with me.

@OpieApproved

Ай бұрын

@@palermotrapani9067 I apologize if you took it the wrong way. I’m not even a Protestant so we can skip the insinuations. I’m not offended though. I get that my comment has rubbed you the wrong way so hence your response was normal human nature. Please know I’m not defending any denomination in my comments. I don’t belong to any of the three in the video. To put it simply, I’m an avid student of the word of God. I listen if I need to be corrected and I correct if it profits the believer as is taught by the Holy Spirit in 2 Timothy 3:16 and again in Colossians 3:16. The word bishop wasn’t used until the 17th century. The word it was translated from in the Septuagint was episikopon/episkopos which meant guardian/s. Or quite simply an elder of the church. We can delve into the theology of this hierarchy but I prefer not to engage in extra biblical discussions or even oral traditions that I can’t prove about this subject which is: elder succession. If your argument is because Luther wasn’t a bishop therefore he had no authority to elect a successor, then I want you to think about what Peter (a super apostle) said in Acts 11 wherein he argued the theology of equality in line with the same theology Christ himself taught in Matthew 12:50 to demonstrate the equality of the spirit even as each believer was given different gifts which I would assume you were familiar. My point is this. Yes historically and scripturally there are elders and order in the church from the time of Moses to now in the time of Christ. Proof of them can all be found in scriptures and in epistles. The Holy Spirit you must know is not limited to titles. If God can raise descendants unto Abraham so can Christ make an elder from his believers. As we speak there are bishops that have not the Holy Spirit in them so please don’t limit the power of the Holy Spirit.

@malawidouglas6464

Ай бұрын

“Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” Matthew 18 v 20. I am bemused by this discussion. Has the speaker spent too much time in ecclesiastical ivory towers or am I missing something? I can tell you that down here among the plebs denominational labels are not a big deal.

Just to clarify about the reformed view of ordination: No, reformed church ordains without laying on of hands. Here's a quote from Bannerman, "The ceremony of laying on of hands we find, indeed, to be an invariable accompaniment of ordination in Scripture." (Part III. Div II.III. ChIV) So, the Orthodox can truthfully represent Bannerman and the Reformed (biblical) position. He does talk about the spiritual meaning of laying on of hands as not a sacrament (as in the RC), but does not deny the use of the biblical standard. @thetransfiguredlife

@acekoala457

Ай бұрын

If the Laying on of Hands doesn't pass on the Holy Spirit then it isn't Biblical. For which the Reformed it used to but the practices have changed to become more and more Asacerdotal since the 19th Century.

Has this channel ever addressed the jurisdictional crisis in Orthodoxy in the West?

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

No, we have not. Perhaps we should! (this is Fr. Jonathan)

@josiahkeen

Ай бұрын

@@TheTransfiguredLife Yes - does it not rest on the consciences of the Orthodox? Fr Josiah Trenham is one I have seen who speaks of it in such a way.

@acekoala457

Ай бұрын

​@@josiahkeen It certainly rests on the conscience of the Hierarchs and the Priests who advise them and Laymen who bankroll the Jurisdictions. But on the Parish Priest and the Service Stander, no. We should pray for Orthodox Unity.

@josiahkeen

Ай бұрын

@@acekoala457 Does unity equate with canonical practice? Is the prayer for Orthodox Unity ultimately a prayer for the restoration of the ancient practice of one bishop one city? Parish priests surely have dealt with faithful moving between jurisdictions over issues like baptism, COVID, etc

At the tower of Babel, they had one language, think Latin, and God divided them into many languages. Acts 2:8“And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?”

Lutherans are advised not to commune at another denomination.

@t-bonet-bone713

Ай бұрын

Same with orthodoxy, but it makes sense if you don’t share the same faith in whether or not you believe it is a sacrament or memorial “at a boy Jesus”!

@acekoala457

Ай бұрын

Depends on the Lutherans.

👍🙏

Perry said that Protestant unity is illusory b/c they do not share communion. By his own logic, Orthodox Church unity is also illusory. The Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) is not in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate, the Church of Greece, the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria, and the Church of Cyprus. The ROC also recently broke off communion with Bulgarian hierarchs for concelebrating with the Orthodox Church of Ukraine.

@user-ep5id4zj8s

2 күн бұрын

This ignores the first 1,000 years of Christianity. Your papacy had administrative breaks in communion with Ephesus, among other jurisdictions multiple times over in the first millennium. Administrative breaks in communion often took 100+ years or longer to mend. You left out that these orthodox jurisdictions today allow intercommunion between laity, but the clergy do not concelebrate. These things will take time. This is in no way comparable to Protestantism having no visible boundaries for communion or anchor of faith/doctrine, or Uniate vs Rome vs SSPX etc.

@FideiDefensatrix

2 күн бұрын

@@user-ep5id4zj8s The difference between any breaks from communion during the first 1000 years of Christianity is that the Church of Rome always maintained orthodoxy whereas there is no authority that can determine who is in the right or wrong during the Moscow-Constantinople schism. Vladimir Soloviev wrote in “Russia And The Universal Church” “On the day on which the Russian and Greek Churches formally break with one another the whole world will see that the Ecumenical Eastern Church is a mere fiction and that there exists in the East nothing but isolated national Churches.”

@user-ep5id4zj8s

2 күн бұрын

@@FideiDefensatrix Pope Honorious and Pope Vigilius maintained orthodoxy in the first millennium?

@FideiDefensatrix

2 күн бұрын

@@user-ep5id4zj8s They never held the Church to any errors. The Sixth Ecumenical Council states that the Church of Rome is protected from error: “And therefore I beseech you with a contrite heart and rivers of tears, with prostrated mind, deign to stretch forth your most clement right hand to the Apostolic doctrine which the co-worker of your pious labours, the blessed apostle Peter, has delivered, that it be not hidden under a bushel, but that it be preached in the whole earth more shrilly than a bugle: because the true confession thereof for which Peter was pronounced blessed by the Lord of all things, was revealed by the Father of heaven, for he received from the Redeemer of all himself, by three commendations, the duty of feeding the spiritual sheep of the Church; under whose protecting shield, this Apostolic Church (i.e. Rome) of his has never turned away from the path of truth in any direction of error (hec apostolica ejus ecclesia nunquam a via Veritatis in qualibet erroris parte deslexa est), whose authority, as that of the Prince of all the Apostles, the whole Catholic Church (omnis catholica … ecclesia), and the Ecumenical Synods have faithfully embraced, and followed in all things; and all the venerable Fathers have embraced its Apostolic doctrine, through which they as the most approved luminaries of the Church of Christ have shone; and the holy orthodox doctors have venerated and followed it, while the heretics have pursued it with false criminations and with derogatory hatred.”

@user-ep5id4zj8s

2 күн бұрын

@@FideiDefensatrix now do Vatican 1 and dictatus Papae.

Interesting classification of Protestant traditions. I notice however that the Anglicans weren’t mentioned…that seems like a big omission.

@JacobsLadderToTruth

Ай бұрын

I’m pretty certain Perry has quite a lot of experience in the Anglican Church and he has addressed them pretty significantly before. I just cant think of the video off the top of my head. Also this is a clip from a longer video so him leaving out one group isn’t necessarily an omission.

@groupedup

Ай бұрын

It's in part 1 of the full video (link in description). Around 20 minutes in.

Sola Scriptura= the Scriptures alone are the inspired-inerrant Word of God. Therefore they are the ultimate authority for the Christian. There is no equal nor greater authority than the Scriptures. Ministers are to be faithful to what the apostles taught- Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:14-17

@hirakisk1973

Ай бұрын

Fun fact: 2 Tim. 3:16 doesn't say that all scripture is "inspired by God" or "God breathed". It is the only time anywhere in the Bible that the word "theopnuestos" is used. Translators didn't know what it was and just broke it down into the separate words "God" and "breathed". We now know that the word meant "life giving" from other writings of the time. In one example, a certain river was said to be "theopnuestos". Do we think it mean that the river was inspired by God? Also, some Early Church Fathers used the word, not in reference to scripture, but in reference to other Church Father's writings. So does that mean that those writings were also the ultimate authority, even though they aren't in the Bible? This is why you don't see this theory being taught or believed in the Church until the 11th Century (Waldenses and later Protestants). Luther, Calvin and Zwingli had bad historical evidence at the time so they rejected a lot of stuff that we are now finding out was true. They also had a "modern" western mindset that didn't understand the culture from which the Church and Bible were born out of.

@Justas399

Ай бұрын

@@hirakisk1973 huh?? so none of Scripture is inspired i.e. God breathed?

@holycatholicapostolicfaith

11 күн бұрын

1. A woman, without her, man is nothing. 2. A woman: without her, man is nothing. 3. A woman, without her man, is nothing. The placement of punctuation alters the meaning significantly: 1. Implies that a woman is insignificant without a man in her life. 2. Suggests that without a woman, a man is nothing. 3. States that without her support, a woman is nothing. The earliest New Testament manuscripts were in scripto continuo, a style of writing without spaces in between words. (continuous script). Uncial, a script with majuscule (capital) letters which was more curved than earlier Greek writing styles, was used during the 4th-8th centuries. If punctuation alters the meaning so significantly, imagine not having spacing between words. It was absolutely necessary to have someone communicate in person. Not to mention cultural differences between our times: ancient hellenistic cultures could recite entire poems (such as the Odyssey) from memory, and ancients did not trust written sources to the same degree they trusted someone face to face. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 (ESV) So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

Reasons im not a catholic There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.) “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.) “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) These are de fide, ex cathedra dogmas of Faith. They are the measure. Every teachiing on salvation must conform to them. As Vatican I defined “definitions are by their very nature irreformable.” It is a terrible sin against charity (and truth) to give an impression, nevermind direct assurance, that non-Catholics can be saved without converting. Everyone gets the help of grace to see the true Faith and seek baptism. That is clear from scripture. Saint Alphonsus was saying nothing really new in bringing forth TRUE devotion to Mary, and perseverance therein, as a sign of salvation. Anyone who refuses to believe in Our Lady’s defined titles, and refuses to say the angelic prayer the Hail Mary cannot be saved in that state. Mary’s intercession is not only useful but necessary for salvation: St. Alphonsus Liguori. St. Alphonsus de Liguori IT is impossible for clients of Mary to be damned, if they faithfully honor her and commend themselves to her. St. Anselm "Just as it is impossible for persons to be saved who have no devotion to Mary and are not protected by her, so it is impossible for any who recommend themselves to her, and are therefore watched over by her, to be lost St. Albert the Great: All those who are not your servants, O Mary, shall perish. St. Bonaventure: Those who neglect our Lady will die in their sins. Those who do not call on you in life will never get to Heaven. St. Ephrem calling devotion to our Blessed Lady the charter (or passport) to liberty, and Mary herself the protectress of the damned. Mary has both the power and the will to save us. Father Alfonso Alvarez claimed the devil told him to "Give up your devotion to Mary, and I will leave you alone." St. Catherine of Siena claimed God told her, "No one, not even sinners, who devoutly recommend themselves to her, would ever fall into Hell" Blessed Henry Suso I put his soul in Mary's hands. Therefore, if his Judge wished to condemn him to Hell, her most loving hands would have to handle the sentence. St. Bonaventure: "In you, O Lady, I have placed all my hopes." I have therefore the utmost assurance that I shall never be lost, but shall praise and love you forever in Heaven. St. Antonine let all tremble for their salvation who make but small account of their devotion to the Mother of God, or grow careless and give it up: it is impossible for anyone not protected by Mary to be saved

In reality, when examining the fruit of professoring believers from all three major denominations, the fact is the majority of all three are not really in Christ.

@theTavis01

Ай бұрын

the wide path to destruction....

I must say, seeing the Protestant conversion over to Roman Catholicism is interesting as I grew up in the Catholic Church and in my adult years found true saving faith through a more Protestant church setting and pastors who clearly presented and taught the gospel. I think you have your false or deceived Christian’s in both camps; I was baptized as a baby and participate in the sacraments in one and I’m saved by “faith” so I’ll be forgiven on the other without genuine spiritual conversion. The troubling part about some of these conversations though is that it confuses “The Church” corporally/organizationally/associationally rather than as a body of believers in Christ as God the Messiah who is the way the truth and the life and only through him may one come to the Father. I pray every Catholic and Protestant convert is truly saved and comes to know the Savior through his written Word so that you may be thoroughly equipped for every good work which God prepared in advance for us to do so that none may boast. I also pray that you are receiving sound teaching from behind this pulpits. “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭14‬-‭15‬, ‭17‬ ‭NIV‬‬ Bless you all.

Can you invite Joshua Schooping (Lutheran) and Matthew Joyner (Anglican)? They were both former Eastern Orthodox priests.

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

I doubt they would come to discuss.

@hirakisk1973

Ай бұрын

Sorry, but Schooping is the latest "poster child" to be trounced out about how he WAS an Orthodox Priest who became Protestant. It leaves out the fact that he was already a Protestant before he became Orthodox and was heavily criticized when he was Orthodox because he still continued to teach Protestant ideas (penal substitution for one) and tried to convince other Orthodox that they were wrong. I do not find him credible at all when listening to him when he tried to talk about Orthodoxy. It doesn't sound like he ever really understood/believed it and gives a caricature of Orthodoxy when criticizing it.

@EnergeticProcession

Ай бұрын

Why would you want that when you became Catholic?

Do Catholics not have wolves in sheep's clothing in their clergy?

Corinthians, Paul tells the Corinthians to elect those who are strong in the faith to be their leaders.

People can Enter the Church using the power of their own intellectual abilities, the Holy Spirit is No Longer considered the Judge of who is Worthy to do so. Thus they enter in the State of Saul. They are in Intellectual Agreement with Scripture, but of The Spirit behind their Contents, they have No Knowledge. The Shifting Sands of the Intellect, are to Unstable to Build a True Spiritual Life Upon.

@asinegaasinega

Ай бұрын

If only all churches applied this. Including those that seek the Lord Jesus in Catholic Orthodox or protestastant traditions

You have aptly identified A problem within Protestantism. However, the Catholic insistence upon following a demonstrably arbitrary authority is not a solution.

@palermotrapani9067

Ай бұрын

What is arbitrary in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is Catholic in Catholic Ecclesiology by virtue of the local Catholic Bishop and Diocese (Latin Rite) or Eparchy (Patriarch or Metropolitan) in a sui juris Eastern Catholic Church is Catholic by being in communion with the Bishop of Rome (Pope). Period. The Pope via the Magisterium exercises authority, in its Supreme form (Extraordinary when the Pope and Ecumenical Council exercise teaching authority or the Pope defines a Doctrine Dogmatically with specific theological terms via an ex cathedra statement. That is very rare and the only 2 clear cases of that since the Council of Trent which ended in 1563 are the Dogmas of the Immaculate Conception in 1854 and Assumption of Mary in 1950. Papal Infallibility was defined at a council (Vatican I in 1870).

@acekoala457

Ай бұрын

Well Perry, Luther and Father are not Roman Catholic, they are Orthodox Catholic.

@ZTAudio

Ай бұрын

@@palermotrapani9067 you need to put “/sarcasm” at the end of your post.

@palermotrapani9067

Ай бұрын

@@ZTAudio No, my post stands as it is written.

@ZTAudio

Ай бұрын

@@palermotrapani9067 Well, let’s just say I find it - somewhat ironically - to demonstrate my assertion.

Who is Perry Robinson?

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

A leading Orthodox Apologist.

@ryanbeamish

Ай бұрын

The GOAT 🐐

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

@@ryanbeamish Facts!! 💯💯

Further, in protestantism everyone is, de facto, a "pope", regardless of their level of biblical acumen by virtue of each person deciding what truths a church must claim .

“Formally entering into communion” is not at the top of our list as Protestants because this isn’t a bureaucracy. But nobody in the Methodist church would say that people taking communion in the Presbyterian church aren’t in Christ. Orthodox mine cannot comprehend this.

What exactly is the problem? I take the stated problem to be: the Lutherans, the Reformed, and the Baptists all claim Sola Scriptura, but do not recognize one another as true visible Churches and have not formally entered into communion with one another. If that is the stated problem, I'm not sure what the point really is. It could just as well be turned around and stated, "There are a number of Christian groups that reject Sola Scriptura and champion Scripture and Tradition, but do not recongize one another as the true visible Church and do not have communion with one another." Is the assumption that if the Lutherans, Reformed, and Baptist share the conviction that the Sacred Scripture is the sole inspired and infallible rule of doctrine and life that, therefore, they should be united and that their disunity is somehow deleterious to Sola Scriptura? It seems a non sequitur. Please explain further how this is the BIGGEST problem.

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

"Several evangelical scholars have noted that the problem with Protestant ecclesiology is that there is no Protestant ecclesiology." - Dr.Daniel Wallace The problem is protestant ecclesiology or the lack thereof...

@marcuswilliams7448

Ай бұрын

@@TheTransfiguredLife I still don't understand the problem. It seems to me that there is only a problem because there is an attempt on the part of very many (RCs, EOs, and various other groups) to make a unified thing called "Protestantism" and then note it isn't unified. However, "Protestantism" picks out a broad category, and doesn't pick out a particular tradition. It would be like me expecting to find unanimity on ecclesiology among a group that are termed as "Apostolic Churches." Confessional Lutherans have an ecclesiology. That it doesn't agree with other traditions that hold Sola Scriptura is just an observation/fact. It really doesn't have refuting power of any kind because there is no claim that Sola Scriptura will inevitably give way to unity. This is also true of those who hold to Scripture and Tradition. These all just seem moot points.

@swenner64

Ай бұрын

​@@marcuswilliams7448how is it that Sola Scripura is correct if you all can't agree on the meaning of basic Christian doctrines? Whose right who should we follow? How is it that your doctrine has produced nothing but chaos and disunity. Judge a tree by its fruit!!!

@marcuswilliams7448

Ай бұрын

@@swenner64 It is a non sequitur to say that multiple traditions who hold Sola Scriptura, but don't agree on doctrine, proves Sola Scriptura false.

@michaelmadern4075

Ай бұрын

Perry Robinson mentions several problems. 1) Within Reformed ecclesiology, a true church is defined by (1) rightly interpeting the Scriptures, (2) rightly administering the sacraments, (3) and right administration of church government. When you use these criteria on either 'denomination', from your own standpoint all other 'denominations' are invalid, and therefore, as Robinson says, the basis for "denomination talk" is gone. 2) Within EO ecclesiology, communion is essential for unity. Thus, Robinson is of the opinion the protestant 'denominations' are divided, as they do not have inter-communion with eachother. Here, Robinson forgets that the principle of unity between the churches is not communion, but the understanding of the gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ is understood the same way in either Reformed, (Ana)baptist or Lutheran circles. Even though these 'denominations' will officially deny that other denominations are 'true churches', at the same time they will confess that within each denomination, whether it be EO/RC/Protestant, true Christians that believe the gospel of Christ can be found. 3) On the basis of the gospel itself protestant denominations believe true believers can, if they feel a calling or a passion (this may vary within each community), receive a position to preach the gospel and interpret the Word of God. For Robinson, ordination, or laying on of hands, or other ceremonial stuff, is superfluous. However, he is coming from an EO position that relates teaching authority in a hierarchal way through the ordination. Protestant use of the laying on of hands is indeed superfluous, and yet most denominations do this because it is done in the Bible. However, they will not consider the laying on of hands to be the 'authorizing' principle, as protestants do not believe authority is given by a church hierarchy: the Bible maintains its own authority, as well as the gospel. 4) There may be a misunderstanding of 'sola Scriptura'. It is not held that the Bible is the only manner of unity. Sola Scriptura is the principle that there is no higher authority than the Word of God. The authority of the Bible is supreme, not the opinion of church hierarchy, or the pope, or the current ruling state government, for instance.

What about Orthodox vs Catholic though? ;)

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

What RC topic would you like to see?

@borkdude

Ай бұрын

@@TheTransfiguredLife I mean, the Orthodox and Catholic are two big denominations who often don't agree and do not commune.

@iggyantioch

Ай бұрын

Unlike prots. The two affirm all seven sacraments The teal presense The Theotokos The list is long. The Anathemas were lifted What remains as a block is Papal supreme Authority.

@borkdude

Ай бұрын

@@iggyantioch You're painting a fairly optimistic picture which I hope is true. Whenever an Orthodox asks on OrthodoxChristianity on Reddit "Is it ok if I go to a Catholic mass" everybody says no, though.

@iggyantioch

Ай бұрын

Iif no Catholic Church is available as Catholics we're permitted to attend and worship and receive in the OC.

Now you just need to make one more step... and come into full communion with the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic church.

@Demetra719

Ай бұрын

The Orthodox Church calls itself the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church as well… as they did pre-schism. We repeat this in the Creed every Liturgy…the only difference in the creed is we do not have the Roman filioque edit, but maintain the creed as it was pre-filioque (which we all used to share, pre filioque addition and pre schism).

@NavelOrangeGazer

Ай бұрын

The Orthodox Church is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

@menoftheclothKTOG

Ай бұрын

@@NavelOrangeGazer I feel like I just give the kid reply... "not so, not so." "Nuh uh."

@menoftheclothKTOG

Ай бұрын

@@Demetra719 Yes, brother, agreed. Full communion with the authority that established that would be ideal. Many Eastern churches have indeed come back into full communion and the others should as well. Though I, of course, submit to the church's further clarification on the Holy Spirit in the creed, its not something that should be a deal breaker or issue of division. I just want to see my brothers home in the same way I pray for my protestant brothers to come home.. and truly be one.

@Demetra719

Ай бұрын

@@menoftheclothKTOG It would be wonderful to see all of us in communion with one another, but for the Orthodox, Rome went on such a tangent that the way we both think now and see things is very different. The Orthodox believe we both have the same roots, but that Roman Catholicism added many many things that were not a part of our prior shared understanding of early Christianity. The Orthodox believe that we have stayed true to our original roots, and that Rome’s addition of so many serious changes is what caused our separation, and because many of those changes are seen as heretical…for the two to see eye to eye again would be very difficult. Rome understands Christianity in such a different manner from the Orthodox, that it almost feels like an entirely different faith in many ways.

While I agree with what is being said about the problems within Protestantism, but, with all due respect, Catholics view the Orthodox as a valid church, with valid sacraments, a valid priesthood, and valid apostolic succession, but looking into Orthodoxy the problems of unity are different, but equally confounding. We see so much inconsistency within Orthodoxy, the debacle of the Great Council, the issue with the Patriarch of Russia who has made statements that boggle the mind, the schism between, Moscow and Constantinople, the problem with the Monks of Mt Athos and the Patriarch of Constantinople. Many Orthodox priest living a worldly life of excess. There is an inconsistency in doctrine also. Here in the United States the vast majority of Catholics appreciate and desire the restoration of unity in the Church, but we see a massive inconsistency amongst the Orthodox here also. We See Orthodox bishops joining and actively participating with the USCCB on a regular basis working hand in hand to work towards the unity our Lord prayed for, we see many such as Metropolitan Kalistos Ware of happy memory say the filioque is no longer an issue, while others rant that it is heresy. Even here on this channel Catholics see your condescending attitudes towards your brothers and sisters. It really looks like the Orthodox are really petty on many issues. Rome has demonstrated and has made constant and meaningful gestures in the quest for unity, but it seems that even as almost all the dividing issues have been resolved at the highest levels, some Orthodox rather wallow in a state of antagonism and division. Pax Domini Sit Semper Vobiscum!

Whilst I am sympathetic to the continuity of the Catholic Church, the corruption of the priesthood and the accretion of doctrine. Solar Scriptural does not mean that tradition is not valid but tradition should be consonant with scripture. We do recognise that all who are in Christ are true believers. Many in orthodox churches do not acknowledge any other churches or that other Christians are saved.

@jajohnson7809

Ай бұрын

Orthodox cannot judge the salvation of non-Orthodox. We leave that to God.

@acekoala457

Ай бұрын

We don't acknowledge false teachings as salvific for those who practice them. Whether or not an individual is comfortable at the Heavenly Liturgy is up to God.

Good video. The Early Church Fathers are had the EUCHARIST in their Mass. That's very Catholic!

That's the BIGGEST problem? Really? It's not greed, or selfish pride, or the sexual revolution? It's not everyone being saturated in pop culture and social media? It's that we don't obsess over some esoteric power conferred through apostolic lineage? Really?

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

There are many protestants out in the world living holy lives. Those things you mentioned aren't systemic problems. What's mentioned by Perry Robinson is.

@theTavis01

Ай бұрын

@@TheTransfiguredLife But in another sense, the things i mentions are SO "systemic" that they greatly affect all churches, even yours. If you say protestants are "living holy lives" why do you have a problem with them? That's the entire point, to live a holy life. Also, my church is planting a new church tomorrow, praise God! The pastor being sent will have hands laid on him. This happening in a way that is not exactly to your liking is definitely at the very very bottom of the list of things to worry about.

@TheTransfiguredLife

Ай бұрын

​@@theTavis01Actually, we don't have a problem with protestants. Don't let our theological disagreements cause this misunderstanding. We absolutely love protestants! Some live holy or good lives in the broadest sense (caring for the poor, the sick, being generous & etc etc). But although you can find good out there it doesn't mean Protestantism is true. The Bible has something to say about heresy. (Galatians 5:19-21). The Orthodox Church has the Eucharist which is the medicine of immortality. This is for the healing of the soul and body. This was commanded by our Lord and the faithful have been receiving for nearly 2,000yrs. There's no good reason to go anywhere else my friend.

@theTavis01

Ай бұрын

@@TheTransfiguredLife Galatians 5:19-21 is what happens when a person is walking by the flesh rather than the spirit. This can (and does) happen in all types of churches, so it is not a useful measure of the validity of any particular tradition. We take the body and the blood every Sunday at my church. While the idea of excluding others from communion may have had its proper historical use in dispelling actual heretics, it has far too often been abused as a political cudgel, and elitist cultism. The whole entire point is that Jesus offered himself freely to all people. It's not supposed to be a tool of division and strife. It's supposed to be something that connects Christians, not divides them. If you came to my church and professed faith in Christ you would be welcome to partake with us. The people in my church are not rejecting your church out of rebellion. Most of them have no clue the Eastern Orthodox even exist. God has a group of people who want to love and follow Jesus, the Orthodox don't have anywhere near enough building space here to hold them all, and you think God is not going to be present in their worship just because they don't share your obsession with having some traceable lineage? (Titus 3:9). The failure of the Orthodox priests to recognize the Holy Spirit moving in other traditions beyond your own is one of the primary reasons I do not trust that you have the "real" tradition to the exclusion of others, because why wouldn't you be able to recognize something like that if you really knew God so much better than everyone else? You can stamp all the designs you want into the Eucharist, but it's literally just bread unless God wants it to be something more. There is nothing that a human could possibly do to make that happen. So you don't get to say that God's not working in our church in that way just because our people are not performing the exact same actions as yours. The hyperfixation on the exactness of the ritual which defines Orthodoxy, is the way in which you are distinct from other Christians, not the way in which you are superior. All parts of the body have their function. With real actual attacks from the enemy, like those I listed in my original comment, is it edifying to anyone to endlessly perpetuate these divisions?

@asinegaasinega

Ай бұрын

​@@theTavis01and to add- ” and he called it nahushta-han, a things of brass." Those that try to constitute a church< be it Orthodox, Pentecostal, Baptist Catholic without the holy Spirit always at the forefront- run. Run people. Run

This you tube page is a joke, he has misrepresented reformed view of ordination as self appointment yes there is a biblical theology of ordination

@JustJordan126

Ай бұрын

Actually, you are the joke. The reformed have NO apostolic succession so you have reformed ministers walking around with no actual grace to be appointed elders, it's grown men playing pretend. Also, with no apostolic succession within the Church the starting point for the Reformed isn't God but man.

@Motivation-Discipline985

Ай бұрын

Go to an evangelical church bud, most low prot churches dont do laying on of hands

@EnergeticProcession

Ай бұрын

In what way do you think I misrepresented the Reformed view of ordination?

@inspiringsophia96

Ай бұрын

My posts are blocked?

@inspiringsophia96

Ай бұрын

@@EnergeticProcession Do videos on JB Lightfoot “The Christian Ministry” and Bannerman “The Church of Christ”. Reformed scholarship is not hard to find. Do it charitably and honestly, it will keep you from shenanigans, chicanery,and balderdash

Solo scriptura

@tupacamaruiv5804

Ай бұрын

The precursor to Postmodernism

This is so ironic because of how the orthodox anathematize those outside their pond but the Protestants do not because the true gospel of grace is more nuanced than that. There can be unity over primary doctrines while having different fellowships over second and third differences.

I'm very confused here-- 0:45 - "I think this is the big problem for classical Protestants... Who sent your ministers?" He describes the problem as this: (2:42): "Where in scripture does it teach this idea that you have an inward feeling that you should be a minister or God has called you therefore you are?" My question in response is: which classical Protestant confession teaches this? None whatsoever. So this isn't a problem for classical Protestants. 3:38 - "Don't call the Orthodox idolators and use this text." I think the point that people are making when they appeal to this text is not that this is the relationship between the Orthodox Church and non-Orthodox Churches. It's an appeal to internal logic (like Perry Robinson will attempt to use later on Protestantism). The question being posed is this: if not even the APOSTLES themselves were to stop people who were preaching the Gospel and performing miracles without their authority, how much less so would the Bishops? Again, it's not assuming that Protestants are these people, they could be Old Believers or Genuine Orthodox or whatever. It seems this passage is incomprehensible with an ecclesiology that requires, without exception, episcopal oversight. 5:00 "On Reformation principles, the three marks of the Church are rightly interpreting the Word, rightly administering the sacraments, and right administration of church government." No they're not. First of all, these are REFORMED marks of the Church, not Reformational: e.g., this is the historic Calvinist view, not the view of the reformation as a whole. Second, he doesn't list the correct three marks. They are: faithful preaching of the Word, faithful administration of the sacraments, and faithful exercise of discipline. Note that "faithful preaching" does entail "100% without fail correct interpretation" and that the last mark has little to do with church government, other then faithful exercising discipline. And this wasn't even the views of the Reformers themselves, but the later Reformed tradition. Regardless, Robinson compounds this issue when he extrapolates these (already incorrect) 3 Reformed marks into the entire traditions of the Reformation (including Lutherans, Anglicans, etc) and then deduces things that simply are not true in reality following that logic. 6:02 - "None of these traditions have recognized each other as true, visible Churches and established formal intercommunion. Huh? One, as discussed in the last paragraph, the issue of not seeing eachother as true, visible churches seems to be a deduction that is derived entirely from a weirdly false premise which is not reflected by reality. Second, yes they have, on multiple occasions. For an obvious example: has Robinson never heard of the Mainline Churches? The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, the Prebysterian Church USA, and the Episcopal Church --three different reformation traditions--all in formal intercommunion with one another. I'd also encourage him to read up on the Concord of Leuenberg AKA the Communion of Protestant Churches in Europe... I must be radically misunderstanding this point because it is so obviously incorrect i have a hard time understanding how someone would be arguing this. In all my years of being a Protestant, I have never heard this much discussion about "true visible churches." Is this a Reformed particular? 8:40 "Ask if Reformed Baptists are Reformed and they'll say they're not" Ok, but ask them if they are Christians and they'll say they are. This is an equivocation that doesn't prove his point.

@EnergeticProcession

Ай бұрын

1. Doesn't need to be explicitly stated to be confessional. 1a. It is found expressed in representative Reformed works. See Bannerman's discussion for example. 2.So the Reformers preaches the Gospel and performed miracles and gave prophecy? For this text to be applicable, that would need to be the case, but its not. And it is not on Reformation principles alone, unless you wish to appeal to the Anabaptists. The Reformers by admission had no extraordinary commissioning. 2a. This begs the question. We do not agree that the Reformers preached the Gospel. 2b. The passage is comprehensible at a time of extraordinary commissioning. On both paradigms, we aren't in that time anymore. Which is another reason why it is not something Protestants can use. 3.The marks you list are identical to the ones I give in the fuller video. 3a. Even with the caveats you mention, the Christological disagreements between the Lutheran and Reformed are not minor nor are they in non-core areas. It is precisely why the Lutherans do not commune with the Reformed or the Baptist bodies. 3b. If you wish to point to say Lutheran marks of the church that differ, this only compounds the problem as now there is even less agreement on what makes a true visible church. 3c. church discipline entails right polity as represented in various representative works for the Reformation traditions. 3d. If you wish to posit a rift between the Reformers themselves and later Reformed and Lutheran figures, this compounds the problem., Out of charity I posited continuity but if you wish to posit discontinuity between the Reformers and their successors, I can't stop you. This again makes the problem worse. 3e. Anglicanism swishes back and forth but they do at times use the 3 marks. But if they don't, this again makes the problem of identifying what constitutes a true visible church between all of them even more difficult. 4. And the 'weirdly false premise" would be what exactly? All you or anyone else has to do is provide the correct criteria for what constitutes a true visible church. And then explain how all the Reformation traditions meet those requirements. And then explain why they divide over secondary/non-core theological issues. I'll wait. 4a. Perhaps you haven't noticed that in the last 50+ years, ECUSA, ELCA and PCUSA are de facto apostate. They have a measure of intercommunion because they do not believe their own historical theology and have adopted a fundamentally identical "progressive" "theology." And this is a recent development and not historically representative. The same goes for Concord of Leuenberg, which was initiated in 1973 at the height of "progressive" theology and includes many robustly "progressive" bodies. The CPCE requires members to affirm women's ordination since 2006. If you wish to claim this as representative of faithful Protestant theology, I can't stop you, but I don't recommend doing so. 4b. It should be noted that the supposed unity between ECUSA, ELCA and PCUSA stops at interchangeability of ministers. Ironically, ECUSA's stated reason for rejecting this was that neither the Lutherans nor Presbyterians had Apostolic Succession, which is ironic since ECUSA ordains women to the episcopate and de facto denies every article of the Creed. This was an attempt to block PCUSA and ELCA gaining access to the treasure store of ECUSA's financial assets. The appeal by ECUSA to apostolic succession was just a paper shield to hide the financial interest. 5. Sure, pick any group the Reformed or Lutherans deem to be heretical and ask them if they are Christians. And they will of course say yes. The question is, what constitutes being Reformed? The Reformed do not generally grant this to the RB's and this is well known and it has been well known for a long time. Shifting over to whether they are professing Christians ignores the point and the problem.

Rome teaches heresy in the Marian dogmas, claims of the papacy and purgatory.

This is not exactly true. I know there are some that will not but, there there are protestant denominations that welcome all baptized Christians to share in Holy Communion. I've dome it myself.

But yall arent in communion. Moscow and Constantinople arent united, and both want to be popes. Do i call the oriental church orthodox? Do i call the church of the East Orthodox? Or is Moscow orthodox while creating expatriacate churches. Rome claims to be orthodox. So who I do believe. But if you want to convert me, you have utilize scripture alone. You know the thing that doesn't exist.

@EnergeticProcession

28 күн бұрын

1. Questions aren't arguments. You need an argument. 2. Temporary schisms occur all throughout church history. One could argue that they occurred during the lives of the Apostles. The current issues between Moscow and Constantinople are temporary and in principle resolvable, both materially and formally. WRT Protestantism, what is the formal mechanism that they all recognize to resolve a schism? What product can they produce that is binding on all that all will recognize in principle? There isn't any and this follows from Protestant principles alone, namely that the conscience of any individual is normatively superior to that of any ecclesial decision. 3. If you think you can adjudicate the Dyophysite/Monophysite dispute by using scripture alone, go right ahead and try.

Protestant response. I hate to be a contrarian here but Sola Scriptura (properly defined) has been around a lot longer than 500 years and others besides “these people” have espoused it. These are just a couple of examples. “Vainly then do they run about with the pretext that they have demanded Councils for the faith’s sake; for divine Scripture is sufficient above all things.” -St. Athanasius, Letter, De Synodis, Par. 6; 296 - 373 A.D. “For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless you receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures, IV:17, in NPNF, Volume VII, p. 23.) 313 - 386 A.D.

@holycatholicapostolicfaith

11 күн бұрын

1. A woman, without her, man is nothing. 2. A woman: without her, man is nothing. 3. A woman, without her man, is nothing. The placement of punctuation alters the meaning significantly: 1. Implies that a woman is insignificant without a man in her life. 2. Suggests that without a woman, a man is nothing. 3. States that without her support, a woman is nothing. The earliest New Testament manuscripts were in scripto continuo, a style of writing without spaces in between words. (continuous script). Uncial, a script with majuscule (capital) letters which was more curved than earlier Greek writing styles, was used during the 4th-8th centuries. If punctuation alters the meaning so significantly, imagine not having spacing between words. It was absolutely necessary to have someone communicate in person. Not to mention cultural differences between our times: * ancient hellenistic cultures could recite entire poems (such as the Odyssey) from memory * ancients did not trust written sources to the same degree they trusted someone face to face 2 Thessalonians 2:15 (ESV) So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

Everyone in there right mind rejects infant baptism.

@apmoy70

26 күн бұрын

English is my third language and I spell English better than you...

This is one of the dumbest straw men against Protestantism and Sola Scriptura that I've ever heard. Have you not heard of a "united church", Orthodrone?

@IC_XC_NIKA

27 күн бұрын

Just labeling everything a strawman doesn't make it one. Deal with the arguments. Your response is useless.