This is a brilliant, incisive assessment. A direct, heartfelt and authoritative overview from an experienced player and technician. Look no further for an enjoyably passionate and undeniably knowledgeable view of the mark vi. This video should be treasured by all saxophonists. Well done Marin!

Absolutely loved this so well done for your complex informative analysis, articulate so interesting and with a great descriptive lexicon, and finally with a great sense of humour too.

Hey Marin: You refaced a couple of my Dukoff Hollywood tenor pieces many years ago. I can vouch for your work, you did masterful work on those pieces.

Great ideas. My mark VI Tnr (bought new in 1970 & well maintained), after 50yrs of working is a bit clunky (& I know how he feels). You are right about SOUND. I'm into Stan Getz & hear it that way but I still sound like me. But If the job is in a certain style, eg a Musical in the pit, you have to be flexible & give them what they want. Set up for me = Meyer 6M (medium chamber, 2.5 reed, with old fashioned 2 screw ligature). It works for me. You have a great modern Jazz sound. Thanks for sharing your ideas. All the best.

I think many people don't realize how huge of a sound you can get with a small tip opening. It forced those players to get a huge sound by manipulating their throats. I think it is a skill that people skip over because they want to jump to having a big sound.

I bought a '56 in '63. My cousin ran big bands and got a pro to bring a couple round. The Mk VI was £80 and a Buffet £50. I was new to sax at 18 years old but the Buffet had a dent in the bell so I guessed it had been dropped. I bought the Mk VI. HE works in mysterious ways! I still have it. In my experience the old ones were all different. I played with a guy who blew a '63 - same but octave key a bit higher. Have also heard four Mk VIIs played live. They sound great. Still, new horns are very good - the Mk VI was a new horn once!

Nice video. Its important to understand that a lot of youtubers are financially motivated in their videos. Too many people are making videos that are purely designed to impress the manufacturer and not to inform the consumer. I find it disturbing how often the narrative changes about a product when there is a shiny new toy to collect commissions from.

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

Definitely youtube and social media "opinions" are very often just clickbait or utter drivel because people are trying to get paid. This is why I made this video as a response to really pretty bad information that appeared to be very much motivated by profit.

Dude I currently own a 135K tenor and it’s the best horn I’ve ever laid hands on

You nailed all of the things, lol. So many Mark IVs have been ruined by horrible repair work and damage from 50-70 years of wear and abuse, not to mention neck pull-down. Selmer didn't fart without having a plan. Each model of Selmer back to the late 20s was far ahead of their time. I prefer the mid-run of the SBA myself, but mileage varies. I've only played about 100 or so Mark VIs and all of them were good. Some were very good, and a small handful were lights-out. I also believe that a great repairman can turn an average horn into a great horn if the damage and past hack repairs are corrected. I've seen you restore some horns that fit that description. The way you describe these horns is like a wine connoisseur and you're right, fine wine indeed. I'll leave the haters with this. If Selmer saxophones aren't the best, why do all modern manufacturers of saxophones use right-side bell keys and incorporate pivot screws?

I play sax, and I also sold a lot of saxophones, and so I had the opportunity to play literally hundreds of vintage saxophones, including more than a few dozen Mark VI's. Of course, when it came to ergonomics, the Balanced Action, SBA, and Mark VI were improvements. However, when it came to sound, I have always found them rather inconsistent, and I learned directly from Jerome Selmer himself that the people who built Mark VI's did not work from blueprints and also had freedom to make changes in bore sizes and neck dimensions, etc., from one sax to another. They were experienced builders that knew what they were doing. Like anyone, when you make changes, some work, others don't. He also joked that if the craftsmen made love to his wife or girlfriend the night before, he may have done a better job than if he didn't. He said that serial numbers were only good to determine when they were made, but not whether a certain serial number was better than another. The best sounding alto I have ever played and still do is my 1939 Conn 6M. I do have a 64 Mark VI, a great horn, but the Conn has a more powerful, vocal like tone. BTW, even though its mechanism is more "primitive", it is actually more stable over a longer period of use than the Mark VI. I have longer playing times between servicing the keys, and the rolled tone holes allow the pads to last longer. Anyway, Jerome Selmer also said that while he appreciated that Mark VI's are valued, he disputed that they were better than newer horns, as technically, there have been even more improvements in mechanisms, tone hole placement, intonation, etc. Of course, any horn sounds better when it's played often, building the instrument's resonance. However, what's the best saxophone? The one that resonates with you and gives you the sound you want.

Wow…U are spot on🎉 I have a Mk 6 that my dad bought for me on my 16th birthday . My horn is a 95,000 . Ok I am old.. I have been a week end player since 1962. Play section work, RnB and small group jazz. Had some great teachers. I love this horn for a lot of reasons. You are one of the few players that get it. Thanks..

Vintage saxophones have a particular sound all their own. however some manufacturers like Ishimori and Nexus get closer to the vintage sound while being modern and less expensive

Hello, this is a wonderful and informative presentation. It’s great that you broke down the characteristics of the different serial number ranges of the Mark VI’s. One question: do those characteristics that you described so well - primarily concern the Mark VI Tenors? Or do those same qualities also apply to the Altos of the same serial number ranges? Thank you.

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

This video mainly refers to tenors. I think that a fair amount of this is also true for altos as well in terms fo sound and response, but Selmer made different types of bore changes with altos than with tenors and so there are differences with intonation more than tone between the model periods that we don't see the same with tenors.

SBAs are my favorite, but the Mark VI was on another level. Thanks for sharing

Great post. I have owned hundreds of horns over 40 years and tell people it was like dating many beautiful and interesting women. Today I married a Keilwerth Nickle Silver

Hey Marin. New subscriber here. Super informative and really interesting channel. Thank you so much for doing this.

Many thanks for your wise words. I had a MkVI in 1968 and never felt comfortable playing it. Didn't seem to hang right either. (I was 17 at the time and stupid). However I now play a Selmer Super 80 serial N.367855 which plays very well except it makes my head rattle big time when playing altissimo. They are hard to get too. (No trouble on Selmer Super Action 80II - rubber Meyer 6M). My question is: Do you have any comments on the Selmer Tenor Super Action 80? I'm using rubber Meyer 9M, sometimes D'Addario 9 for very loud.

Thanks for your video, nicely explained and played! I play some VI's tenor (67xxx, 80xxx and 222xxx) and they all are very different so I support your opinion very much. But the 222xxx has an amazing sound what you would not expect so don't write of the youngster ;). Keep up the good work

@HornedTube

5 жыл бұрын

I don't write them off, they are in fact extremely consistent at that period. They can be very good instruments, just not quite as much character and depth as the earlier ones. Especially for those who desire modern power and brightness they can be very suitable.

I would recommend trying out a lot of different ligatures, reeds, mouthpieces and custom necks before looking for a great horn. These things can make a huge difference

@jazldazl9193

Жыл бұрын

Concur

I respect your opinion and I know the video which you speak of. I think the resentment comes from guys that act like you either play a mk vi or you are not playing and that crap pisses me off. There are lots of great horns new and old. I have a Yanagisawa tenor that I love and you would have to kill me to take it. I also had a Conn 10m that was phenomenal. I was stupid and let it go to someone that offered me way more than market value because he had to have it. Play what you like play a horn that makes you want to pick it up and not put it down. Just don’t look down on other people’s choices.

@vladimirlopez7840

3 жыл бұрын

@@MyRackley my feeling is that modern horns are much better. The intonation is better the ergonomics are better overall the are just better. I am of course talking about pro level horns from quality manufacturers. But the vintage horns have their appeal and for some people that’s what they like.

PPS The most intelligent comments I've heard on the subject. Thank you

Cool video, thank you! Do you buy into the myth that the horns without the f# play better than the ones with the f#-key?

@HornedTube

5 жыл бұрын

No, not really. All the high F# Selmers I have had have been especially good. I think they can be DIFFERENT than the no F# models, but it is usually a good difference. I have one right now, a 113xxx tenor that is a great horn and has an especially powerful and open altissimo and I believe that High F# addition has something to do with it. I think that idea is mostly just a myth that benefits dealers who look for any special sales pitch, and High F# horns are actually rare. People paid more for that option. This myth is about as reliable as the idea that European models are not as good for "jazz", also false.

Thank you for this elaborate video, whenever I get into another discussion on MarkVI’s I will directly refer to this video. I think you are spot on regarding the whole debate and your arguments are well funded. So thank you for making this ultimate (personal) statement to close this debate that seems as old as the MarkVI model itself 😄

Makes perfect sense to me. Yamaha makes changes AND marks those changes accordingly...62, 62II, 62III, 82Z, 82ZII, 875, 875EX, 875EXII etc...making it easier to track the changes. If people accept that each of these Yamaha horns plays differently, and prefer certain vintages to others (eg. Purple Logo) then why can't that logic be applied to the VI with a 27-year production run? I'm almost convinced that this topic would be much less contested if Selmer had marked them as VI.ii, VI.iii, VI.iv, etc. with each of the respective changes.

I think that, at an applied, practical level their point (or one of the main points) is that you shouldn't pay alot for a VI, because its a VI. That's it. Nothing more or less. Yes, hyperbole and "they are worn out" (so don't pay alot for ANY horn that is worn out). What they didn't talk about, at all, is the *sound and response* of a "good" VI in good condition/set up. It can be argued that it has a nuanced difference that is desireable and hard to find in many modern horns. "vintage complexity..." Its really two separate arguments or positions, on the same horn. And of course, the notion that you should avoid equipment swapping and practice is the most important. But it was buried at the end. Also, the notion that it is all bout the individual neck should be addressed!!

I totally agree with your point of view, and what you share in this video about the personal sound, I'm not alone in this way, thanks. Dealing with another topic, what do you think about buffet super dynaction?

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

I have not enough experience with Buffet to make an educated answer. The few things I can offer are that they tend to be quite a bit darker than most Selmers, (at least the super dynaction) and the palm keys have a funny ergonomics that can be hard for some.

So what your saying is that they are the same but different! Got it!

Hi, have you been able to test the Selmer Supreme yet, and to do a review on it pls

Thank you for this. Can you say how much of what you've said here about tenors also would apply to soprano Mark VIs?

@HornedTube

5 жыл бұрын

Soprano is quite a different situation. Selmer did not change the soprano for many many years from, I cannot remember which model exactly, maybe the radio improved or balanced action. So when MK VI tenors started, the soprano was still what we call a "super action" with maybe some updated keys etc from earlier models. MK VI soprano did not even start until 60-70xxx period. SBA and MK VI soprano's would be worth discussing but it is pretty hard to find early examples.

@maxhighstein

5 жыл бұрын

@@HornedTube Thanks!

@HornedTube

5 жыл бұрын

Soprano MK though does have it's progression, I may make a video about that I suppose. @@maxhighstein

@maxhighstein

5 жыл бұрын

@@HornedTube That's a video I would watch.

His comment starting at 23:50 says it all when choosing a horn.

HI MAN I MUST SAY AMEN TO WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT MARK 6s!!!!! I HAVE A MARK 6 TENOR 85xxx SERIES BUT I JUST GOT THE HORN AND I GOT IT OVERHAULED NOW BUT I ONLY HAVE IT 2 WEEKS NOW SO I HAVE TO GET USE TO IT I HAD A SUPER BALANCE ACTION 80 AND iT PLAYS VERY FAST AND PRECISE AND THE MOUTH PIECE IS A 105/2 HARD RUBBER BERGLARSON BUT MY MARK 6 HAVE A MORE BEAUTIFUL TONE FOR SLOW SONGS IT JUST BLOWS MORE SWEETER THAN MY SUPER BALANCE ACTION 80 for SLOW SONGS ,BUT FOR FAST PLAYING MY MARK 6 SEEMS A LITTLE SLOPPY when I play fast on it, DO YOU HAVE A MOUTH PIECE THAT YOU WOULD SUGGEST FOR IT THAT WOULD BE MORE BETTER AND HELP THE HORN TO PLAY MORE PRECISE AND FASTER ON UP TEMPO SONGS ? THAN THE ONE I HAVE RIGHT NOW IM PLAYING ON A MOUTH PIECE CALLED A PHILTONE HARD RUBBER ECLIPSE 7 STAR IF YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ABOUT MOUTH PIECES FOR MARK 6 TENOR 85174 SERIES PLEASE LET ME KNOW THANKS FOR YOUR HELP ,BUT IT ALSO COULD BE ME too NOT USE TO THE FINGERING YET , BECAUSE THE MORE I PLAY MY MARK 6 THE BETTER AND FASTER IT IS PLAYING but still I feel its little sloppy when it is playing fast songs and I want precise attacks on the MARK 6 HORN AND PRECISION WHEN PLAYING FAST on the horn SO Im SILL HOLDING OUT ON JUDGING HOW FAST MY MARK 6 WILL PLAY IN 3 MONTHS FROM NOW AND A NEW MOUTH PIECE to support the horn more better I WILL LET YOU KNOW MORE BUT THANKS FOR SHARING THIS VIDEO AND YOUR SUGGESTIONS FOR MOUTH PIECES AND ADVICE ALL THE BEST YOUR FAN DENNIS I WAIT FOR YOUR REPLY THANKS GOD FOR VIDEOS LIKE THIS GREAT INFORMATION BRO !!!!!

Have you played anything that is lush, warm, deep and complex from modern horn makers? Greatly articulated, by the way! Thanks a bunch!

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

I have not played enough of the modern offerings to answer that really.

@alexandrecolas-jeffery722

3 жыл бұрын

@@HornedTube Thanks! I'm looking into TM Custom and Remy Veerman horns. Jure Pukl and Seamus Blake have both switched over to Remy Veerman horns recently, and TM Custom has amassed a very solid reputation over the last years. I want to visit the Tenor Madness shop in the next years to try their horns as well as many of their MkVI and SBA's, I hope to find something I like (my Custom Z has always been bright and underwhelming to my ears). Cheers!

@victorvidenee

2 жыл бұрын

I play an Ishimori. An early one, produced right at the beginning of the production period (circa 2010) and its also said to be an “Artist model” for which they used a slightly different alloy. Bought it second hand and its a very nice horn with a very rich and complex sound. Haven’t played newer ones, so can not tell how it compares… I like this instrument very much.

What you're actually telling here is that, nowadays, the search for ones ultimate MK VI is a hopeless task. And when you think you have finally found that so-called horn, you will always be wondering if there isn't another MV VI that sounds even better?

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think I mentioned "one's ultimate MK VI" at all, since I dont really think that way. I suggest finding the horn that feels and works best for you and your sound. If that is a MK VI, great, if not find what works for you. There is also the possible concept of finding more than one horn to do different things on different days.

Brilliant playing. I've listened please give me a mark 6. Sound amazing

@derekakien7379

3 жыл бұрын

Go for a MkVII. One third of the price. Seen four blown live. Awesome horns.

Marin - I play a ‘56 The Martin tenor, which I love. I’m using an Otto Link 7* HR mouthpiece. Playing small combo in smaller venues, would there be another mp I should consider? Metal mp’s seem weird to me. On reeds - boy, a struggle. I use Boston Sax, Vandoren, and Rigotti. Also, Legere.

Thank you for what you said about the people at Selmer. It's a real insult to those craftsman who made those beautiful instruments and continue to do so. I happened to play clarinet as well and a buffet R 13 clarinet came out about the same year and both factories are actually near each other and the workmen from both firms used to even share the same cafeteria. Yes we need to uphold those designers and craftsmen. I think that the mark six was also the brainchild of Marcel Mule a classical saxophone player!. Thank you for your empathy and enthusiasm and knowledge God bless Bill

I really enjoyed this video. Not just for the Selmer history lesson, but a long form video of this nature is a breath of fresh air. KZread is drowning in clickbaiters that devalue and pervert a rich culture, all for the clicks and kickbacks.

Such a clearcut historical view from an experience repairman n player of all kinds of saxes sure clears all misconception,TQ,SIR

The SBA for me, nice video!

Ive seen the video in question i thought on watching the one in question it was an advert for a Japanese manufacturer .

If it sounds good to my ears...its good enough..brand names more for commercial purposes regards workmanship, materials..etc...sound quality that in the ear of the player is what counts most...its the "beauty" in the eye or ear of the beholder or listener..just my opinion...❤

Why would tone holes need to be levelled so many times like you say?

@HornedTube

5 жыл бұрын

They don't necessarily. That really depends on how hard the horn has been run, the style of the player's technique and the treatment of the horn. Years matter too. Hopefully it only needs to be done once, but that would be a very rare situation. Ernie Sola, who I learned repair from used to say that toneholes went out of level from just being repeatedly slammed down by the pads from rough/hard players etc. He was not sure about it but was an idea he had, because they would just go out of level without any damage over the years. I think this is possible, but also not sure. There are other tangible reasons, such as the body of the horn gets flexed from playing pressure over the years turning the toneholes slightly oval etc, or there is impact damage which would also effect them.

well said

Are they over-hyped? Yes. Are they over-priced? Yes. Are they awesome? Mostly Yes. Are there better horns out there? Yes. Where they based on the MVI? Mostly Yes. Is unfair to compare a MKVI to a modern horn that had 50 years to improve on the design. Having said that, there are several horns that are better constructed with better intonation , they had time to sit down to study the design and improve it. Is a testament to the Selmer brand that they were able to produced a saxophone that still plays great today. In the end, a good player will make any horn sound good, but a good horn can make the life of a player a whole lot easier.

You're talking almost exclusively about tenors here, Marin, which is most instructive, and I thank you for it - but what about the Mk V I baritones ?

Try a Huller - fabulous presentation :-)

I wouldn’t say it’s a bad horn. It’s just vintage. Ya a vintage Camaro can still haul ass…. Compared to cars of it’s day. Way easier to just get a custom new that hits the same if not better

good Conn good King good Selmer good Buffet good Keilwerth Older Yamaha ... and even all that is subjective newer horns just don’t have the sound and flexibility; really good players make a not so good horn sound really good. but we all know that. Agreed. I would bet that vintage horns wear and breakdown slower than newer manufacture. Tonally/ sonically / diverse a really good Conn is hard to beat. A horn not for cry babies. Ergos not fab. Troy Roberts sounded great on both but better on those Conns than that SBA. And I love SBA’s and good VI’s !!!!! Just play

You ever see a mkvi tenor with a j-scroll on tube to bow and regular coin edge on bow to bell “ring”/connector ?

@HornedTube

Жыл бұрын

Probably the body to bow band was a late 1960s or later replacement part after a repair.

@jambajoby32

Жыл бұрын

@@HornedTubefella claims it’s all original & og lacquer too. It’s a 72 so the xtra parts seems visible

@jambajoby32

Жыл бұрын

Viable**

@HornedTube

Жыл бұрын

@@jambajoby32 Everyone claims their horn is original. Most are wrong. Feel free to contact me at my site if you want to share pics.

What’s your favorite modern horn

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

I have not played enough modern horns. I've tried a few Yanagisawa but was not thrilled ny any except their curved sopranos, and in that case still a bit old model. Yamaha 82Z was ok, just not bright enough for me, a bit muted. I really have not tried enough.

WHAT KIND OF HARD RUBBER MOUTH PIECE DO YOU PLAY ON YOUR 87xxx SERIES MARK 6 TENOR THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWER ALL THE BEST FAN DENNIS

@HornedTube

4 жыл бұрын

That is a straight signature Florida Otto Link I setup at .098

The horned dude knows his onions.

Yes, agreed agreeing agreed………your outlook is fact-based and important! It’s most unfortunate however, that when a member of the public pays-out and has a trial of one of your mouthpieces but returns it because it didn’t work for them, and you keep $100 for your “troubles”! This contradicts and earlier claim here that a main motivation of yours isn’t “being in business.”

@HornedTube

Жыл бұрын

I am not sure what you are referring to, but for clarity I do not (yet) make mouthpieces, so any mouthpieces I do sell are usualy vintage, not "mine". Secondly, I do not offer mouthpiece trials for the general public nor do I have a set fee of $100 for "troubles". Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else, but if you DO have some specific issue to discuss or complain about I suggest you contact the shop which would be a more appropriate venue for that topic. Besides that, pretty much everyone has a business or some kind of livelihood which does not disqualify them from weighing in on related topics. There is no logical basis to claim that someone being in the vintage horn business means commenting positively on vintage horns directly beneifts them therefore they are biased. If I comment positive only vintage Selmers its plenty likely no one cares or if they do they can buy them from someone else or worse, they could buy a CONN!!! OH no!!!!!

Im really glad you mentioned the techs most of them are a joke. Finding a good tech is of utmost importance no matter what vintage horn you play. My Super 20 always has to be adjusted. I have had and played many Mark VIs and everyone of them played different. I also had a dog Mark VI and I found another Selmer neck and all of sudden that horn was killing. Necks also make a huge difference on Mark Vi and probably any horn.I have to say though what people are charging for VIs now is out of control, especially when a lot of them are dogs. This was a good video though and was very informative.

10:30 exactly. not even close.

SBA,Mark6 -some are great. overrated -yes.

The Mk VI was a landmark horn. No doubt. But surely you can't excuse the sloppy keywork, tone holes and generally poor quality control of too many current Selmer products. Where is their quality control - its the world's most premium instrument. Maybe this was always the case and back when the MK VI was being produced, it left the factory as a poor product - but there were many more repair shops and great craftsman who could fix that poor work. We'll never know, but it might explain the wide variance in the VI...

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

Actually the quality control of the MK VI was pretty much standard for the quality control of the time period as far as I can see. Other horns were made to about the same level. You may see better precision with new horns today due to a raised standard of technology.

@zenscapeUKmedia

3 жыл бұрын

@@HornedTube The earlier horns (pre 74) do command higher values than the later ones - the length of the serial number being the trigger. Didn't they try all sorts of tricks to get the intonation right, even by tightening the radius of the bell? You're the person I've ever heard who disagrees about the quality variations, but you're the expert, not me!

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

@@zenscapeUKmedia "You're the person I've ever heard who disagrees about the quality variations" Again I do not understand what you are trying to write.

@zenscapeUKmedia

3 жыл бұрын

@@HornedTube My mistake, I meant to say "You're the ONLY person I've ever heard who disagrees about the quality variations." The earlier Mk VI's were better finished than the newer, later run versions. Its a bit like the pre-CBS Fender guitars. Usually, the ones who disagree about the Fender thing are those trying to sell you a late Fender at pre-CBS prices! In terms of later technology, are you saying a Ref 54 is a better horn than a good Mk6 as it uses later technology?

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

@@zenscapeUKmedia When I said 'newer horns' I was not referring to MK VI at all, since they are not making new MK VI. With Newer horns I was referring to for example a Yamaha 82Z which has generally a tighter key tolerance and more precise tonehole finish than vintage Selmers.

what about changing the neck......?

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

Always fun, they dont always fit.

That sax of your looks amazing I have to say. Way out of my league unfortunately. Lots of money i suggest.

@HornedTube

4 жыл бұрын

That one not for sale. I cannot replace it. However there are many great horns floating around out there. Some are not expensive.

this video is the absolute truth.

..the Mouthpiece decides the Sound

Cars many years ago look nice but break down all the time, constantly need maintaining and messing with and are not reliable and cost a fortune to fix and yiu can't go far in them as they are prone to breaking down. Cars have moved on massive and you buy a new car now and it goes on and on is totally reliable and delivers. Is that not the same with Old horns, Mark 6 is nice yes but expensive and needs a fair bit of maintaining. New horns just play. Just a thought.

@HornedTube

4 жыл бұрын

Well, imagine an old MK VI has either been played very little, just sat in the case, or it was played then totally restored to like new working order. In those cases it is basically like a new horn (but sounds better than new horns). Mechanically restored or never played vintage horns are going to hold up just as long as a new horn will. If played a lot they will need significant attention in about 12 years. There is nothing magical about new horns or new brass, the mechanisms and the pads will require attention in the same amount of time. If it is a really worn out horn that has not been restored, then yes, that is more troublesome, but the exact same thing can be said of the brand new horn 10-12 years after purchase.

Lupifaro, Borgani ..................anyone?

@the5thYearSeniors

2 жыл бұрын

A little late to this. I went to NYC to find "the ultimate horn". I already had a great MK6 but I had the money and was willing to pay anything at the time. I then tried some Borganis and actually found them very inconsistent. I then tried one that played incredibly well. It was the Lovano series. I ended up buying that horn. All my friends that tried it thought it also had something special. I am guessing there is a lot of variance with quality control of Borganis from my experience, but I think they can be great horns.

I don't think you listened properly to the video that you are responding to. Jay never said "the technicians didn't know what they were doing" or that they were "idiots" or that the mark 6 is a "piece of junk". Far from it, he loves Mark V1s - you wouldn't buy and own them *personally* if you didn't. He just said that *for him* another brand is even better and he gave the reasons why. Also... if you're saying that owning 6 or 7 isn't enough to have a valid opinion on them, IMO that's kind of ridiculous.

My only criticism of the Mark VI's is that they are over glorified. Not that there aren't great Mark VI. Just that KZreadrs with sax channels ALWAYS (almost) mention they owned a few or played Mark VI's. As if it's a badge of honour. As if saying that makes gives them status. Also people with KZread channels are here to make money. Hoping for those big pay days. So they hype their videos with "click bait" titles and wording to get traffic and sponsorship. Why not? If that's their thing. The fact is you don't need to buy a "good Mark VI" to get a "good sax YOU" like more than another. We don't need to pay $13,000 for a certain model year Mark VI . I LOL when I come across some Sax KZreadr who AGAIN mentions "...I've owned many Mark VI's...etc.". Or, those that say "I'm a PRO player"...etc. Which doesn't mean that much as any one who is getting a pay check for playing or teaching is a "pro". Doesn't make them "great sax players" ...just "experienced enough" with "...enough talent" for that job. It's not as if every legendary player or some one with a name ONLY plays a Mark VI or has never played on anything but... Kirk Whalan. Played for Whitney Houston for over 7 years. Might have owned a Mark VI (not sure) ...I do know played on a Keilwrth he claims since the late 90's. Then just before 2020 he got sponsored by P. Mauriat....A Taiwanese brand with a French name. Does this make him any better or worse a player? NOPE> He's still that good. It's like a tennis players focusing too much on a particular brand of models of racket. Doesn't make the player. McEnroe played with a not so expensive hi-tech wood racket. Other guys sued "composite A"... I only wished Sax KZreadrs would stop having to slip it in that they've owned or played Mark VI. If you really think about it..."great players" don't sit around making KZread videos. They're too busy flying off to gigs. In recording studios. Accepting Grammy awards. Same applies to athletes. Unless they've retired. Even then...they don't run KZread channels for their sport....Unless they need income...trying to market some product they developed . Good points. Add. Many Sax KZreadrs. The more known one's are sponsored. So they're biased towards this one brand. Saying what they have to to keep the sponsorship. And while I still believe no sax makes the player...I do feel a good vintage sax will usually sound "better" to most ears. Vintage anything is usually "better" if "well kept".

......the big Mark VI myth....!!! .......Is the Mark VI....so...so...so... better than the rest....??? I see that there is a madness about this sax.....

If you are saying that people can't talk about MK VI because they didn't play thousands of them, you can't compare only the absolute best mk VI among thousands with just any random sax manufactured by somebody else and claim, this sax is not as good as the other. There are many many fantastic players that do not play on MK VI, there is people playing in other vintage horns, that eliminates the argument of saying it is just because of endorsement. As it was demonstrated many times. it is really hard for us humans to compare audio. Many world class musicians failed to identified the sound of a Stradivarius even after years of playing one. I love vintage, and old stuff. I like playing all kind of old saxophones and moderns. they all feel different, But i bet you and most of the people talking about the MK VI sound, wouldn't be able to know who is playing a Mk VI, and who is playing a yani, a yamaha, a holton, a conn, a keilwerth, a grassi, a cannonball, if they are all behind a curtain.

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

I can see that English is not your first language so I understand some of the confusion perhaps. I have not said people "CANNOT talk about MK VI because they have not played thousands". People are free to talk about whatever they like, but due to the fact that there were many design changes across a couple of decades of the model run there are essentially a number of versions of the MK VI and in various model periods they were handmade enough to vary quite a bit within. Sure, people can talk about them, but if you want to define (and then promote your idea) what a MK VI is and give it a review you should probably understand what you are discussing based on a large subject study. Makes sense I hope. Regarding whether or not one can identify who is playing a MK VI on a blind test, this is utterly unimportant. The distinctive value of any particular horn is not how others think you sound or what they can hear, but how that horn makes YOU FEEL as a player; what kind of pressure, response and frequencies it allows you to feel and hear while you are playing. In the end it is how a horn feels to play and how it responds to you that makes/allows you to play in a particular way, which becomes the music that you make.

@HornedTube

3 жыл бұрын

@@saxofonistacr Sorry that is just inaccurate. I am something of an authority on Selmers since I have played and repaired so many. if you want to dispute that I suppose you can do so in your own mind. It would be a silly argument. if one wants to discuss the MK VI which had many changes over several decades one would, rationally speaking, have to have at least played and examined many examples of those different designs to understand what they are talking about. A Yamaha 82Z ? They are generally very consistent and have only had maybe 1-2 design changes, so play 1-2 and you understand them. Whatever your preferred language is, it is clear that you want to complain or argue without even having a cogent logical point. Thanks for contributing though.

I bought a yamaha 82zii UL alto. I played a 62 through college and the 82z blows it away. I have been out of practice for a while but I honestly am getting a much better sound out of this horn. Every note is responsive and resonant. I do think the innovations in mouthpieces is a huge advantage. I have the phil woods by drake and I think how much I wish I had this set up playing lead alto in college. I feel I would have never switched to tenor because it now feels more like my voice, and I own a great tenor MK6

The Myth of the Mark VI - it's a myth

just go out and buy a nice unlaquered yamaha custom z and be done with it..

if they were such master craftsmen than why did the mark vii suck so bad. this guy is a joke.

@gorgonhaas6429

2 жыл бұрын

Did you play a Mark VII for any length of time? I played two of them for ~15 years combined and found them both to be very good instruments in every aspect. What did you find on them that didn't work?