💥 dScryb (affiliate): dscryb.com/?aff=267 ✅ LIKE & SHARE: kzread.infovideos ✅ PATREON: www.patreon.com/bobworldbuilder

@AliceEverglade

Жыл бұрын

each level of exhaustion huh, 1. disadv. ability checks 2. half movement speed 3. disadv. saving throws and attack rolls 4. half max hp 5. movement speed = 0 6. 💀 I think... though maybe attack rolls is at 1 instead of 3

@AliceEverglade

Жыл бұрын

eyy I was correct

@Brythnoth_of_the_Void

Жыл бұрын

1. Disadvantage on rolls, Lose prof bonus, 3.Half speed, Can’t heal, 5Speed 0, 6Death, I’m sure of the numbers ones inclusions, and of their positions (less so for the half speed one)

@Rollsspelsmusik

Жыл бұрын

I will houserule this to "when your exhaustion level exeedes you constitution you die" This will make a Barbarian more fit than a Wizard. I'll also steal your Exhaustion for being reduced to 0 hitpoints and per failed death save. Though i already run Deathsaves as a DC 15 Con save.. but still.

@supersmily5811

Жыл бұрын

Low levels of Exhaustion are NOT barely noticeable. At level ONE you have disadvantage on ability checks, including, but not limited to: Initiative rolls, swimming and flying checks, influencing NPCs, identifying magical effects that are highly unusual and rare, finding secret doors, etc. Even Initiative rolls alone could be a death sentence.

Never noticed that exhaustion persists beyond death, but having worked in the service industry, that seems pretty realistic.

@phoenix7997

Жыл бұрын

*solemn nod

@Leivve

Жыл бұрын

Likely because when they were making 5e originally, due to the plentiful amount of revival, they just expected the dragon to focus down the wizard, kill him, and the cleric just casually turns around and revives them; and no one at the table gets super crazy about the death because they know the cleric still has 4 more revives in them.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

respect.

@Bambiinsel

Жыл бұрын

in my group we use exhaustion a lot. coming back from 0 hp instantly gives 1 level. hoppens quite often.

@katecritt

Жыл бұрын

It is known.

an interesting byproduct of the old exhaustion rules that I liked is that having half your usual hitpoints makes you much more vulnerable to the sleep spell lol

@liamwhite3522

Жыл бұрын

Where two pieces of mechanics mesh together beautifully. You're 2 steps from the grave, of _course_ you're ready to fall asleep!

@benvoliothefirst

Жыл бұрын

@@liamwhite3522 They forgot the step where you become a twitchy aggro jerk and need a Snickers. Sorry, where *I* become an etc...

@liamwhite3522

Жыл бұрын

@@benvoliothefirst That's just you failing your disadvantaged Charisma checks, exhaustion level 1.

@fatercoelho7476

Жыл бұрын

hehe, would be nice if sleep spell had some wording to make it more effective with exaustion :D that way we would have a way to actually explore exaustion, and if they add spells/features that inflict exaustion it could provide interesting combos and dynamics (and maybe allow the spell to see some play at later levels)

I really like the idea of resurrected characters being unable to move and at half hit points. Like Wesley in the Princess Bride.

@brucemaximus3797

Жыл бұрын

"I beat you both before, I'll take you on together!"

@MrMartinSchou

Жыл бұрын

Depends on what killed them. An arrow through the heart shouldn't leave you at level 5 exhaustion. Maybe level 1. The body has been mended of its mortal wound. But if the cause of death was exhaustion itself (e.g. starving to death), the resurrected body didn't have any of the nutrients needed to sustain life, let alone move about. You could expand on this to depend on the state of the corpse upon resurrection. Raising a dessicated corpse could certainly require you to get the new living entity back to health.

@stoatystoat174

Жыл бұрын

Sounds good to me, makes Crossing Death's Threshold a bigger deal than just slightly more wounded

They added that line about exhaustion being reduced when you’re raised from the dead, because before, if you died from exhaustion, you technically died again the instant you were raised.

@saltefan5925

Жыл бұрын

yep, this is the reason. it's a catch to avoid that one niche situation

@wolfyblackknight8321

Жыл бұрын

was going to say I feel like death should add a level of exhaustion since coming back from the dead if you were dead awhile (say more then a day to give an example) but saw that obvious problem with "you died of exhaustion. your team revived you. .you gain a level of exhaustion and die. being an thing that could happen. maybe only giving stage 1 or 2 exhaustion to reflect the strain of coming back from the dead and getting the body back into proper shape.

@RomanII1997

Жыл бұрын

okay, but hear me out: just let revive remove every level of exhaustion.

@wolfyblackknight8321

Жыл бұрын

@@RomanII1997 it could work. it depends on how you feel about being back to 100% on a successful revival. some people might want it others might want the negative of it for the sake of some kind of stake for dying.

@armorclasshero2103

Жыл бұрын

​@@RomanII1997 or 1d4 levels or something

1 lvl: disadvantage on ability rolls, checks 2 lvl speed halved 3 lvl saves and attacks at disadvantage 4 hp halved 5 lvl 0 speed 6 ded I used it... A lot.

@chadcharest9891

Жыл бұрын

I had a very hardcore game so I knew them all, but the DM let us choose the order. We made a lot of skill checks so we'd frequently take half speed first. Then if we were avoiding combat we might take half HP.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Ayyy well done! Haha

@tobizerker4153

Жыл бұрын

ToA run?

@praeothmint2273

Жыл бұрын

Didn't remember AL levels, but we also use it a lot in my games... Usually rarely go beyond levels 1-3...

@nevisysbryd7450

Жыл бұрын

Sickening Radiance gang

I like the idea of them falling unconscious rather than death. I feel like this exhaustion is missing the speed reduction. When you're tired, you get slow.

@THEPELADOMASTER

Жыл бұрын

Maybe lose 5ft every 2 levels

@MyAramil

Жыл бұрын

Maybe have the unconscious happen at level 8, but the unconsciousness does not recover a level of exhaustion unless the player is in a safe place with a comfortable setting(beds, warm meals, plenty of water etc) otherwise they stay at level 8

@michaelpeele5739

Жыл бұрын

Its not just tired, its not eating, drinking, freezing, etc.

@HallowedKeeper_

Жыл бұрын

well, keep in mind it is entirely possible to die of exhaustion. hence why you can die of exhaustion in 5e

Retaining exhaustion in the 5e system through death actually makes sense IMO. It would be like expecting a revive to put you at full health !

@RaspK

Жыл бұрын

_Finally_ someone getting it!

@TomasLKarlik

Жыл бұрын

Actually, death doesn't make sense. IRL, people have gone some 20 days without sleep and lived ok. The issue is they become vegetable and it's very hard to keep awake. They lose cognitive functions and stop responding to stimuli. Also, goin that long without sleep may have long term consequences such as frequent headaches and fuzzier memory. However, no one has ever died from sleep deprivation. *if* it wanted to be more "realistic", the final exhaustion level would be the effects of the Feeble Mind spell.

@DevilBlackDeath

Жыл бұрын

@@TomasLKarlik I was talking about retaining exhaustion through death and resurrection. It makes sense because being revived doesn't make you go back up with full strength and vitality. So retaining the effects of exhaustion when being revived (minus a level for obvious balance reasons) makes sense. As far as being realistic I'm against full-on realism in any kind of games for the sake of it. If it calls for it then sure. But immersion doesn't require realism, and as far as game balance goes, I feel like death is a pretty good incentive for players to not raise their exhaustion too high (be it the old or the new system). But yeah depending on the kind of campaign (like a super survival-based one) you run actually making the final effect to suffer the same effects as a feeble mind spell until exhaustion gets back below 10 would be a pretty good idea.

@TomasLKarlik

Жыл бұрын

@@DevilBlackDeath Oh alright, I didn't get that... that's on me. And sure with the realism, I agree with that too. It hinders things more often than not. I was coming from a false assumption you were talking about death from exhaustion in general. I could easily get behind the idea that any sort of resurrection puts a character at one exhaustion level before death (Raise Dead does it automatically with its own ressurection sickness mechanic), thus forcing the character to rest to get back up on their feet (or use even more magic/resources). With the only exception being Revivify, as that is a clear mid-combat res and I've always seen it as a sort of "prevent true death" than a resurrection per se, as in the soul hasn't yet fully transitioned to afterlife. That aside, I'm glad you liked the Feeble Mind bit. Its only downside is a non-casting character could still somewhat get by, even with -10 to all rolls. It would synergize better with the 5e version, where by the 5th level, your hit points are already halved and you cannot move, so you're not an effective combatant anyway, and with this you also wouldn't be able to cast spells or speak, but wouldn't die straightaway. But I'd leave that open, if anyone wants to experiment with it.

@DevilBlackDeath

Жыл бұрын

@@TomasLKarlik One level of exhaustion before death might be a bit harsh but something like 5th/6th level in the new system (or the player's current level of exhaustion, whichever is highest) could be a good idea and a good deterrent to too-high risk taking without preventing the player from doing so if they feel they really have to ! As for feeble mind you could always add any of the effects that synergize well with the new 10th level. It does add a special case, which is what is trying to be avoided by the system, but the 10th level is already a special case, doesn't add much to remember. So in sum you could have a 10th level that is feeblemind (minus the psychic damage since it's not a targetted attack), halved HP, disadvantages on checks and saving throws, -10 to rolls. Makes it a non-lethal but completely lethargic extreme exhaustion. You know what actually I think I like that very much, thanks for the idea :)

I love that One D&D is moving back towards the older editions' approach of using modifiers to rolls rather than just flat (dis)advantage.

@armorclasshero2103

Жыл бұрын

Yes me too. Adv/DisAd doesn't leave any space to design around it

@outcastedOpal

Жыл бұрын

As long as they dpnt gp too far with it, im happy theyre doing it

The scariest part of the new exhausted is that it's all D20 Tests, so it penalizes death saves. At 5 levels of exhausted, you need to roll at least a 15 on the die to succeed a death save. I like it.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

hehehehehe

@mbjargvide

Жыл бұрын

That also explains why exceeding tem levels of exhaustion kills you. You can no longer succeed on a death save.

@matt-thorn

Жыл бұрын

@@mbjargvide A 20 would still save, not like it matters much

@MCHelios618

Жыл бұрын

In the current rules, 3 levels gives disadvantage on death saves

@eriquik

Жыл бұрын

Now I love it even more!

I'm pretty sure that the rule that reduces exhaustion by one when resurrected is to make it so that if you died from lvl 6 exhaustion, then you don't immediately die again. And you keep levels so that you can't just spend a spell slot on revivify to remove all exhaustion.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Ahhh. That makes sense!

@kesc170

Жыл бұрын

Maybe it should work like if you are dead for any reason you count always as having 6 levels of exhaustion because you are dead. (or 11 Levels for the new one*)

@daltigoth3970

Жыл бұрын

@@kesc170 If memory serves, that is how things worked in older editions. Basically, you needed a recovery period after being revived and were effectively useless during that period. The duration varied depending on how long you were dead.

@CanisMythson

Жыл бұрын

@@daltigoth3970 Raise Dead is still like that; Revivify is more of a defiblerator anyway, considering the 1 minute time to pull it off actually falls in line with the 1 minute before brain death

@ArmandoDoval

Жыл бұрын

Any form of resurrection would be an extremely expensive way to wipe your exhaustion slate clean. I doubt that was a concern. I think the reason is simpler - spells do what they say they do and no more. Revivify doesn't fix starvation or sleep deprivation any more than it'd fix a lost limb. You're presumably just as starved (and exhausted) when you come back. But as you observed, if the exhaustion is what killed you, you'd die again immediately, so they opted to take one exhaustion level off to compensate.

I really like your idea of exhaustion gained after dropping to zero and after each death save.

@DaedalusShard

Жыл бұрын

I like the first more than the latter, since there are so few ways to make Death saving throws easier. If you pick someone up to avoid their 50/50 chance of acquiring another level of exhaustion, a single hit puts them right back down. With the first in isolation, Healing Word spam becomes more of a gamble.

@michaelcaplan1589

Жыл бұрын

Since a Death Save is a D20 check, wouldn't each level of exhaustion also subtract 1 from the die roll for a Death Save? So, if you gain a level of exhaustion for falling to 0 hp, you'd be -1 on your Death Save. Then, if you fail the first Death Save, you'd be -2 on the next Death Save, and so on. Is that correct?

@kizmarh

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelcaplan1589 How I would implement it: you don't get the levels of exhaustion when you drop to 0, but only when you get back up - so when you get up, you'd get 1 + number of failed death saves levels of exhaustion.

I actually use the exhaustion rules all the time (almost every session). They are a great tool to add some grittiness and sense of danger to the adventures. Anyway, great work on the channel!

@saltefan5925

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. It can also be done with spacing (9+ hours of travel between "safe" places in an otherwise dangerous land), and really help with causing tension.

I had a character that, due to the guilt of a horrible series of actions (warlock stuff), missed sleeping one night. However, it ended up being the longest day of his entire life where I racked up three levels of exhaustion while facing the bbeg of that arc. But it made for such a memorable experience for the party seeing him struggle mightily to function basic battle functions.

@rafaelcalmon2858

Жыл бұрын

Meanwhile, most groups will either never experience exhaustion or experience situations in which they are forced to drag a game across several sessions with a player or 2 feeling like they are just there to make everyone's life harder, until they finally die and either wish they could have done something about it or that it would have come faster so they wouldn't have spent so much time literally unable to do anything. The reason not many people play survival campaigns is because if the DM doesn't keep a hand on the dial, things tend to devolve into a situation that can't be reverted, only delayed. Generally, you either have stuff that make it a breeze, like Goodberry or Tiny Hut (usually banned from survival campaigns), or you can easily be stuck without benefit from long rest for weeks in-game, meaning you can't recover from exhaustion. Also, even in a non-survival campaign, there's a reason people avoid playing Berserker Barbs. Now, I'm quite looking forward to it when they release the martials doc.

This new mechanic of exhaustion is basically the stress from van richten's guide to Ravenloft. Since I'm playing Curse of Strahd, we're using both og exhaustion and stress

@Benz74M

Жыл бұрын

New exhausted rules affect Spell Save DCs too, which is nasty.

@B42UC4

Жыл бұрын

I doubt that Bob is not aware of this. Makes me wonder why he decided to publish this... Cheers!

@mystopian

Жыл бұрын

Me too

@miguletio9175

Жыл бұрын

How does this stress works?

@mystopian

Жыл бұрын

@@miguletio9175 in Van Richten’s it’s at the DMs discretion and just increases by one, no save. We play it thus: Stress When experiencing a challenging or difficult situation roll DC15 resilience check, using your strongest saving throw bonus or take 1 point of stress. Like Van Richten’s we also apply the following: Causes might include… A tense, dramatic moment, especially one involving one of a character’s Seeds of Fear Every 24 hours the character goes without finishing a long rest Witnessing the death of a loved one A nightmare or darkest fear made real Shattering the character’s fundamental understanding of reality Witnessing a person transform into a horrid or unnatural creature For each stress point your character possesses, you subtract 1 from all attack rolls, skill checks and saving throws you make. Calm emotions will suppress this effect for the duration of the spell Lesser restoration removes 1 point of stress A Long Rest removes 1 point of stress Greater restoration reduces your stress to 0.

As anyone who's ever taken the Sickening Radiance spell can probably tell you, the 6 levels of exhaustion are: 1. Disadvantage on ability checks 2. Movement speed halved 3. Disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws 4. Hit point max halved 5. Speed = 0 6. Death

Another thing I would add to the Exhausted condition is the following: Every 2 levels of Exhaustion, you also lose 5 feet of your movement speed. I am already using this rule on my campaign and it's way better than the previous version. It feels more progressive and gradual, not to mention way easier to remember. Edit: Everytime my players finish a combat or a strenuous physical activity, I make them roll a constitution saving throw with DC 10. If they fail, they gain a level of exhaustion.

@Lord_zeel

Жыл бұрын

I think I would just make it 5ft per level, makes the rules simpler. If that means most characters can't walk after 6 levels... that seems fine. Gaining exhaustion after combat though, that could be rough unless they have a way to get rid of it other than sleeping. You could easily initiate a death spiral where the increasing exhausting makes successful saves harder and harder. Yeah, it's an easy DC, but it feels like a rule that would overly punish a few unlucky rolls. Here's a crazy idea: The DC is 5+ the number of rounds of combat. In most battles, this will be a DC of 7 or 8, only big combats will have enough rounds to push 10 or higher.

@turtrooper8310

Жыл бұрын

@@Lord_zeel that’s a very good idea to add the number of rounds of combat to the DC! Thanks for the idea, I think I’ll implement that. And about making the save more difficult if they’re already exhausted, exhaustion already gives you penalty in saving throws, so more than that would be a bit too much I think. And about given my players more ways to end the exhausted condition, I let my players end one level of exhaustion on a short rest and two on a long rest, so it’s a bit easier and makes up for the now 10 levels of exhaustion compared to the 6 there were before.

@OtterrChaos

Жыл бұрын

I love this idea of -5 ft every 2 levels of exhaustion! Definitely going to implement in my game!

Coming back from the dead and having 5 levels of exhaustion, 0 movement, that you slowly recover from is exactly what Westley experienced after being mostly dead all day in Princess Bride.

Adding to that possibility of 'Death being a sub-condition of Exhaustion' it would be really cool to have death saving throws add 1 level of Exhaustion each time you drop to 0 HP.

@CooperAATE

Жыл бұрын

I already do this. Makes players REALLY want potions of healing lol

@crazyclyle123

Жыл бұрын

Yep, I had a DM do this if you failed a death save.

@Rogue_4

Жыл бұрын

Yup this is already a house rule for us as well. It helps prevent the healers from relying solely on something like Healing Word to bounce a downed player back to life repeatedly.

The one real problem is that exhaustion also applies during Death Saving Throws.

I absolutely love dScryb! I'm on the aphantasia spectrum, which makes D&D a little harder for me, but I still enjoy a lot. Recently, I started a text-based campaign and as a DM, it honestly saves my life. Most of the time, I pick and choose what descriptions I like from dScryb and then put my own spin on them. I would have never found it without this channel.

There needs to be a high level spell that causes a character to be purged of exhaustion levels, possibly by teleporting them to some sort of Riviera side vacation town on a trajectory outside of time so they arrive back a round later with a week of beachside naps and buffet meals under their belt. You could call it a Cannes Trip.

@ValpasKankaristo

Жыл бұрын

A good idea! Rod of Security has a similar effect but apparently doesn't remove exhaustion... Might have to homebrew this spell tonight.

@syvajarvi2289

Жыл бұрын

The ranger class at higher levels can lose a point of exhaustion per short rest. It’s an awesome feature.

The level of exhaustion being taken away by being raised is clearly to make sure that clerics raising an exhausted character from death doesnt immediately kill them again. It persisting beyond death makes sense because poisons and other conditions often do too. That said, this is a much better version of the rule

@TheFinagle

Жыл бұрын

I would half the levels of exhaustion, if not outright remove them. You get the best sleep - better sleep than any being has ever lived through, and then filled with enough magical energy to create life. Your probably going to feel more like you chugged a pot of coffee than just climbed a mountain.

I like having it drop them to unconscious, and that you gain levels for every failed Death Save, but I think being sluggish also fits so maybe you loose 5ft of movement for each level, also giving a perk to characters with higher movement speeds

@Srioll

Жыл бұрын

I think this idea is a good one. Feels weird being exhausted, having that affect your skills and abilities but not your movement. I know my movement is reduced with levels of exhaustion!

@Nebelum

Жыл бұрын

I like the original idea of halving movement because it scales with player’s movement. My group and I play with flanking rules on melee strikes, so movement is important.

@Felixr2

Жыл бұрын

@@Nebelum You could also say every level of exhaustion reduces your movement by 10%.

@BattleKing00

Жыл бұрын

@@Felixr2 there would be too many times that your speed would be at an odd number. For example if you started at 35ft it would drop to 28, 21, 14, 7. That's not a nice set of numbers unless you play gridless.

@Felixr2

Жыл бұрын

@@BattleKing00 Just round to the nearest multiple of 5 if you're using a grid. 30, 20, 15, 5.

I feel there still should be (maybe optional) speed reduction mechanic at least for grittier games

Жыл бұрын

Maybe do the same for health? Reducing by 10% per level of exhaustion would imply the death at 10th level exhaustion.

@oliveranan4881

Жыл бұрын

5 feet per Level? ... And maybe add a level on failed death throws.

@ericpoppleton9119

Жыл бұрын

@ You could just become vulnerable to all damage at level 5.

Exhaustion is a key mechanic in Chult in Tomb of Annihilation, and in a certain smoke-filled room in that module. It's really cool if you like the survival mechanics (including the food and water part). I know that survival where tracking food, water, heat effects, etc is not really most 5e players' groove. But for those that like it, the current rules really give it a punch.

@skyeschlueter9877

Жыл бұрын

I think my only problem with 5e exhaustion it is that the berserker barbarian subclass gets exhaustion as a penalty for using frenzy, which is way too steep a price in my opinion. This new exhaustion works better as a consequence for that specific ability, but is a little less stressful everywhere else, which kinda defeats the purpose of exhaustion.

7:22 the Yuan-ti transformation ritual in Tomb of Annihilation gives you 1d6 Levels of Exhaustion. There are also some Adventurers League modules with traps and regional effects that give you 2 Exhaustion Levels in one go.

I like exhaustion having different effects as it gets worse, but I also like the idea of it just reducing the rolls. Maybe a mix of both would be perfect.

Hey Bob, if you want you can check the exhaustion mechanic of Level up: advanced 5th edition, what they did is that they basically seperated exhaustion into two: fatigue for the physical side, and strife for the mental, its pretty cool and packed with flavour, something that sourly miss from this one despite it being better than the old exhaustion rule

@andrejkatic633

Жыл бұрын

do you have a pdf maybe?

This was the one rule I saw and right away liked. This will clean up the DM screen a bit, for sure. I would probably add something where your movement was lowered by 5 for each even numbered level of exhaustion you gained ( -5 at lv2, -10 at lv4, -15 at lv6, etc.)

@Yous0147

Жыл бұрын

You could also just use double the exhaustion level as movement penalty. (-4 at lv2, -10 at lv5, -16 at lv8, etc.)

@leXie1337_chan

Жыл бұрын

This would leave halflings and dorfs immobile at only exhaustion level 8, though.

@Kiloku2

Жыл бұрын

@@leXie1337_chan Well, exhaustion level 8 is just two away from death.

Yeah, I liked the 5e Exhaustion mechanics because they were different, also having this stuff online made finding the rules (or having them ready) real easy. I feel like 10 levels is a bit excessive, and may apply multiple levels at a time now. If we still kept the 6 levels system we could do {-1, -1, -2, -2, -3, Dead} for the levels (cumulative -1, -2, -4, -6, -9, Dead).

@CooperAATE

Жыл бұрын

I REALLY like that.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

That's a cool idea!

@werewolfjedi38

Жыл бұрын

I actually like it at 10 levels, because it implies we could get hit by it more often without worry of the instant death in a single situation. it feels like a way to work level drain abilities back into the game as "exhaustion damage"

@orwin5445

Жыл бұрын

@@werewolfjedi38 I think what this really shows is that players would like more lingering effects that don't disappear right away by a single long rest or low cost spell slot. Exhaustion, level drain, lingering injuries, etc.

@maxgrieve

Жыл бұрын

@@orwin5445 Agree, though equally I wonder if some players might find it's too long a slog coming back from 7/8/etc levels of exhaustion, before they can finally stop deducting from every single D20 check (particularly if they are hit by more exhaustion penalties before getting in those 7/8/etc long rests). Might start to grate a bit, especially if exhaustion does end up getting used more. But I guess that's what the playtesting is for!

This would be perfect for the Dark Sun setting, passively making it so much more brutal.

Dude, you are awesome. I love your positive take on stuff, and the way you break down and explain stuff. This is a fantastic new rule and I'm gonna implement it like right away, makes a ton of sense.

I can't remember where I saw it but someone house-ruled that ghostly enemies dealt necrotic damage AND gave a point of exhaustion when they succeeded with a melee attack. It made them much more thematic and far more terrifying for the party to encounter.

I don't interpret the existing RAW as death causing any exhaustion, though adding a level or 2 (assuming you didn't die of exhaustion) on being raised would be a really good penalty.

I love your upbeat attitude and the way you present your thoughts and ideas. You also have an excellent, easy-listening voice. Rock on. :)

"You end up in a weird loop of exhaustion between 9 and 10" I've never heard my life being sum up so fast yet precisely.

I think I like the "being brought back from the dead leaves you with 5 levels of exhaustion" take...

1) Disadvantage on ability checks 2) ½ speed 3) Disadvantage Attack Rolls & Ability checks 4) Hit Point Max ½ 5) 0 Speed 6) Death But I played games with a lot of homebrew that had utilized exhaustion a lot for both the players and the monsters.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Well done! And using it for monsters too is not something I hear very often!

The new exhaustion system does seem to be abrupt on the death thing, but basically having your mind and body slow and weaken by being exhausted so you're less capable of fending off enemies and traps makes a lot of sense. The onlder system does just seem to be a touch all over the place in terms of actual effects. Though, mostly still making a certain amount of sense.

It's kind of rad to be getting good stuff from One D&D already.

It's interesting that exhaustion now goes up to ten, considering that it's rare for players to accrue a single level of it. I hope this means D&D will make more use of it moving forward. A flat penalty makes it is applicable many more contexts than just travel and survival, so I hope that your suggestion of using it as a way to have the players experience longer lasting consequences for failure will make it into the base game. Maybe they could also add a scaling HP maximum reduction, to make more sense of the death past level 10 and to retain that survival element.

@tylerwellman8252

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, aside from that one Barbarian Archetype it doesn't seem to come up a lot in many games.

@nevisysbryd7450

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, this is similar to my own system for it (granted, no longer a 5e hack but a different ttrpg entirely at now). It inflicts a -1 to all ability scores instead of to rolls, so each point reduces your maximum HP. Take enough points to have a 0 or lower maximum HP, you die.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Well said!

@dwil0311

Жыл бұрын

If they don’t make further use of exhaustion by adding more ways to accrue it that will actually happen, then I think this is a terrible change. Skipping a night’s rest to keep pursuing something shouldn’t be such a trivial decision. It should be a serious decision that needs to be weighed.

@AdmiralTails

Жыл бұрын

I mean, following the other rules in One D&D, some parties will be dealing with exhaustion a lot. Remember: Long rests are now interrupted by ANY length of combat, so parties with DMs that like random chance encounters during long rests will probably unwillingly skip them often. But yeah, I feel like they may have also made it more prevalent in other rules, given that they doubled the number of levels you can survive (new rules have death at *exceeding* 10).

I mean, hit point damage doesn't scale any better. The first few hits you can ignore, they don't impede your abilities at all. Getting hit too many times suddenly means you're KO'd or dead. That said, I'm happy to see OneDnD bringing back the -1's and -2's of yesteryear. New exhaustion sounds like easy-to-remember negative levels, and I could get behind that.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Very true!

I like the exhaustion level consequence of going down. Without it, it's hard to want to fear damage because you're either perfectly capable, or completely unconscious. And one little potion brings you back like nothing happened. You can even go down multiple times with no penalty other than a skipped turn.

This is how I've run it since reading Savage Worlds, which is how Exhaustion works there, so smooth & scales perfectly. Really happy to see D&D go that route!!

I'm pretty sure the intention behind the "Lose one exhaustion if you're brought back from the dead" thing was to ensure that someone who died at 6 exhaustion and was brought back would return at 5 exhaustion and not just instantly die from exhaustion again. It's logical enough that they shouldn't need to say it, but if they didn't, I'm sure some DMs would end up pulling that on some poor player.

@ianbraun271

Жыл бұрын

@@EdgeLie or not spend several thousand worth of diamonds, and just Revivify/sleep?

@LightPink

Жыл бұрын

@@ianbraun271 sorry queen, our fighter is having a week off because 300 gp to save the kingdom in a timely matter is far too much.

@ianbraun271

Жыл бұрын

@@LightPink Sorry, I was basing my comment off the assumption of 6 levels of exhaustion, as the Op posted. And IF the deceased is at 6 exhaustion, 1 revivify wont do anything, but lower the exhaustion to 5, which is speed = 0. So you would have to MURDER your own party member and revive again to bring their exhaustion down to 4, which, in case you don't know is HP Max halved. Also, this is a pointless discussion, because exhaustion almost never gets that bad.

Bob: "I challenge you to leave a comment below describing the effects for each level of Exhaustion." Me: There's SIX!?

Exhaustion usually only comes up for me with the DM saying, "If you do that, you're going to have to take a level of exhaustion."

I really liked this update, it was so easy to remember, but also it has reasonable consequences!

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Bingo!

Keeping levels of exhaustion makes perfect sense when rezzed, considering that most real people who nearly die from the kind of environmental conditions that cause it in game take a long time to recover. And if I recall correctly, the spell Sickening Radiance gives an exhaustion level every round you're in it(to the point of stuff rarely causing more than one level).

Hey Bob, I've always played with the rules as they are in OneDnD. It's great and it gives me something I can bargain with if my players want to do something just a little bit beyond their abilities!

-Disadvantage on ability checks and saving throws -Speed halved -Disadvantage on attack rolls -Max HP halved -Speed set to 0 -Death from off the top of my head. I might've gotten a few things mixed up but the good news is that with D&D Beyond the rule is never more than 2 clicks away from my character sheet.

@trondordoesstuff

Жыл бұрын

Just mixed up the saving throws. Very close!

I use exhaustion extensively, because it’s actually threatening and terrifying. That being said, I’ve only had one character in any of my games reach 5 levels of exhaustion. It was actually one of the best sessions I’ve ever run, due entirely to the exhaustion.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Yeah if a PC gets to level 3 or 4 of exhaustion, they usually drop everything to try and fix it quick!

Great job pointing this out! I am 100% on board with this version of exhaustion. Unless it gets changed to something better in the final version, I may go ahead and adopt this version for my table. Thanks for sharing!

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Awesome! Glad you like it!

@xaryuo

Жыл бұрын

Probably the same for me

@morrigankasa570

Жыл бұрын

I refuse to use Exhaustion at all!!!

Exhaustion came up in our homegame this weekend. I mentioned the new rules suggestion per the new play test. We immediately traded over to the new rules. We still didn’t like being exhausted but we stopped pulling out the handbook to check the rules!

I'm running Tomb of Annihilation right now, so exhaustion actually comes up once and awhile while traversing the jungle. So I'm definitely interested in playtesting this!

They should also add a -5ft movement per lv of exhaustion. Most characters will be immobile by 6th level exhaustion, but other classes like monk would still be able to move a bit more

@danielgehring7437

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but it's an unfun mechanic that way, as each level of exhaustion increases the likelihood of the next level of exhaustion occurring. The less you can move, the less you can spend to find water, shade, or whatever. Nobody likes hopeless situations.

@manicdan481

Жыл бұрын

I agree with a reduction to max distance, but let it never go below 25% of your max, to prevent the hopeless part mentioned by the other commenter. In combat movement and out of combat movement are very different things and I don't think we want someone immobile in combat to also never be able to move again after combat. Alternatively exhaustion could reduce max carry weight by 10% per stack so you get encumbered easier and have to leave things behind to make the trip.

@josuelservin

Жыл бұрын

Remember, this is home brew, you can add that to your table if you need a more gritty adventure or not use it at all, is all your decision!

If you consider that you get -X to saving throws, which includes death saving throws, the death step isn't exactly sudden imo. It also makes the "+1 exhaustion for dropping to 0 hp" rule unsavory because it instantly affects your chances to succeed death saves the moment you need to start making them.

@Aironfaar

Жыл бұрын

Not to mention adding exhaustion for failed death saves. That's gonna spiral out of control real quick.

@nevisysbryd7450

Жыл бұрын

The increasing penalty for going down is usually the _point_ for inflicting exhaustion for dropping. The entire idea is to make players want to avoid going down or failing death saves in the first place.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Great point!

@Aironfaar

Жыл бұрын

@@nevisysbryd7450 I get that an increasing penalty for going down is the point, but punishing you by applying a penalty to death saving throws before you even get to make a single death save doesn't feel right. Also, given the power of even a +1 or -1 in bounded accuracy, dropping to 0 hp and being hit in melee once while down already means a -3 to saving throws. On average (which isn't entirely representative due to differing variance, but still), that's about as bad as having disadvantage on saving throws - which you previously, with the popular house rule that dropping to 0 hp incurs a level of exhaustion, got only after you went down thrice rather than just once. The new rules give you more leeway in the amount of exhaustion levels before a character dies, but they cripple them faster than one might think in bounded accuracy. And because death saves are immediately affected, starting with the first level, I'd suggest applying exhaustion no earlier than until after the first death save has been failed, and to carefully consider how many exhaustion levels per drop to 0 hp is appropriate. Updating the exhaustion on 0 hp house rule unfortunately isn't trivial.

@nevisysbryd7450

Жыл бұрын

@@Aironfaar Alright, I see how that is an issue within the 5e/ONED&D context. I use a similar setup in my own system (each point of exhaustion reduces all ability scores by -1 until healed)-however, DTS are standard ability checks (you add/subtract your modifiers) and rather than dying at 3 failed saves, you die when your maximum HP is reduced to 0 or lower, which generally means a slower/more granular death process. -3 is pretty harsh when there is virtually no way to mitigate that penalty and you only get 3 saves. Granted, this does make healing magic *way* more valuable.

This also brings opportunity for a “well-rested mechanic”. If you spend a week relaxing in good accommodation, you may be more rested than usual and get a +1 to everything or whatever. Or if you prepare super well maybe you give it for that. Could be fun, probably would be op but I’d be tempted to play around with it

@Mithguar

Жыл бұрын

I don't think that would be op. If +1 to everything was OP, by same measure, -1 or more is far too crippling. On one had creators are too scared of +2 to hit for flanking because "bounded accuracy" but going as far as -10 to everything sounds like great idea?

When I first skimmed the document I just saw the "oh minus from rolls, eh that's so lame and boring". I actually am a bit partial to the original exhaustion rules, just sad that I can never get folks past the first level. Then watching this video and seeing the "minus the number of levels from your spell DC and also you die if you get more than 10" I'm sold. I'm sold. I'm using this. Mwuah, chef's kiss.

That’s a shame that you never used it before. I use it all the time and I love the effects of each level getting more serious. I like the simplicity of the new version, kind of, but I like disadvantage over numerical penalties, and it’s odd to me that movement speed isn’t affected with the new one. It’s not hard to memorize either: 1. Ability checks 2. Movement speed 3. All d20s The levels after that come up really rarely so I don’t care much past that.

@kaiserrollzify

Жыл бұрын

Abelhawk in my Bob comments? What is this, a crossover episode?

@twilightgardenspresentatio6384

Жыл бұрын

I use a very similar system but it’s for being grappled and restrained. Instead of being killed you’re held prone but you might suffer some exhaustion from your escape attempts.

@infi_red8416

Жыл бұрын

"I use it all the time except the second half of it" lol

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

To clarify, I've used exhaustion plenty of times haha, it just rarely if ever went beyond level 3 for me as well. And based on the comments, 4 is where people seem to forget the levels. I think we need a poll for this...

@Abelhawk

Жыл бұрын

@@BobWorldBuilder I'd be interested to see what people think. I can see each way having its own pros and cons. I also think that if you need 11 points of exhaustion to die, there need to be a lot of monster attacks that inflict points of exhaustion or something or it'll never really be used.

don't have it memorized, but 6 is dead or one foot in the grave.

@mateotwii

Жыл бұрын

Yup, 6 is dead.

Thank you very much My campaign is very Exhaustion heavy because a lot of the features the players use are physically taxing. These new rules and updates to exhaustion has really helped me make the game more interesting and faster (because the exhaustion table was difficult to remember). Thank you for posting this video.

Don’t know if you will read this, but watching this reminded me of a rule in AD&D where being brought back from death puts you in a state that takes time to get back to full health. I’d have to pull out the books and check but I remember something about the longer you are dead the longer to recover. Also there was one game in the frozen north I did that used the exhaustion rules frequently and I still had to look them up regularly, and I updated death to drop to 0 and need to make a save or start dying instead.

I like the deadly aspect of exhaustion. Having your character pass out from exhaustion would you mean you'd have to figure out new rules for starvation, since passing out doesn't quite exactly solve that. I'd say with the new rules, after a certain level. Let's say at Exhaustion level 10 (arbitrary number), each further level of Exhaustion causes you to lose 1 Hit Die from your Maximum number of Hit Die. Once you hit 0, you die Or some variation of that

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

That's a good point how losing HP should still be a consequence

@cubicengineering4715

Жыл бұрын

​@@BobWorldBuilder I myself had the idea of dropping to 0 HP, unstable, instead of immediately dying. Because you have a -10 from your levels of exhaustion your following death saves are almost all fails so it's still an incredibly dangerous state, but it gives your allies a few precious seconds to try and keep you holding on. This slightly rounds off that sudden death whilst providing an opportunity for it to be a dramatic moment, which personally I really like compared to a more gradual decline before death. If you really don't like having a sudden effect at 10 though, I think each level of exhaustion could also reduce your max HP by an amount equal to your level. For example a d6 hit dice class with +0 CON only gains 4HP per level, so accounting for the little extra you get at lvl.1 you're left barely standing on your feet after 4 levels of exhaustion. However a big ol' d12 barbarian with +5 CON gets 12HP per level, so it takes them 12 levels of exhaustion before they're left barely standing. This reduces it by a mostly consistent % and would even allow you to remove the arbitrary number of 10 from the system, instead those factors being determined by how bulky you are whilst allowing it to scale with level. Though I will admit the maths is a tiny bit funky such that at really low levels you may be able to tolerate a couple more levels than for most of your adventuring career, but I think that can be handwaved pretty simply as you being a spry new adventurer.

@JenovaCetra

Жыл бұрын

So here's a slight tweak of the Exhaustion rules that I came up with which also implements Constitution. Levels of Exhaustion. This Condition is cumulative. Each time you receive it, you gain 1 level of exhaustion. Exhaustion Penalty. You gain an exhaustion penalty equal to your levels of exhaustion - your Constitution modifier (maximum 0). d20 Rolls Affected. You gain a penalty to your attack, ability checks, and saving throws equal to your exhaustion penalty. Spell Save DCs Affected. You gain a penalty to the Spell save DC of any Spell you cast equal to your exhaustion penalty. Movement Speed Affected. You reduce your base movement speed by an amount equal to 5 x your exhaustion penalty. AC Affected. You reduce your AC by an amount equal to your exhaustion penalty. Hit Points Affected. You reduce your max Hit Dice by an amount equal to your exhaustion penalty. Whenever you would reduce your max Hit Dice your total Hit Points is reduced by an amount equal to the maximum result of your Hit Dice. If your Hit Points reach 0 you fall unconscious until you lose at least one level of exhaustion.

KZread Algorithm gives you an automatic level of exhaustion.

To tag onto your idea at the very end, you could have a condition called "Envigorated", which works as a bonus, the positive end of the scale to "Exhausted"s negative end. Something like Heroes' Feast could give you one point of it, or particularly luxurious and/or magical inns, and before you start gaining points of exhaustion, you first lose your points of envigoration. It would decrease by 1 on a long rest (like exhaustion; you trend towards 0, always), and you'd probably want to cap it at two or three, since it affects your DC, as well as all rolls.

Thanks for the update Bob! This makes Barbarian Berseker viable! - Hector

I don't use exhaustion a ton, but I bought Hit Point Press' Deck of Conditions. So pulling that out doesn't slow things down too much. Tbh I don't love either system. I think a blend of the two would be cool. I like the linear nature of the new one, but I would kind of like some roadblocks at, say 5 or 8.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Solid points and I may have to look into that deck. Never heard of it!

I do use exhaustion in my campaign but have already house-ruled it to scale more steadily through 8 levels... and also includes spell DCs. (That was a good catch for Wizards to include in the new version.) I did have my PCs to level 4 exhaustion recently, but that is "just" disadvantage on attacks/saves/skills and -4 on spell DCs.

The clause that removes 1 level of exhaustion after you are revived is ONLY in the book in case you die from exhaustion - because if that wasn't in there, you would come back with 6 levels of exhaustion and just immediately die again. :D Great video! THanks for this, second I've seen in a row. Really happy the algorithm suggested this to me.

We had to add these effects to our character sheets in our latest game. The DM was a bit aggressive with the survival rolls in the desert and we ended up with one character on level 5 exhaustion.

Im excited to add the exhausted condition to cursed items or even as a penalty for rolling a 1 on physically tasking ability checks.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

That's another great use for it!

This seems like a good change. I always wanted to use exhaustion, but never remembered stuff. For DCC I was thinking of having players go down the dice chain for different levels of it. But maybe the minus is easier.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

This definitely has a lot of potential uses. And it may be a little easier in DCC, but if you have all those awesome dice to use, I'd use them instead!

In my group's games exhaustion comes up more often than most, so we have the levels memorized. We have houserules like gaining a level of exhaustion whenever you hit 0 hp, which makes "Healing Word" riskier to use in combat because the healed creature could start accumulating exhaustion if they keep getting downed everytime the bard heals them. No one has ever dies that way, but we have had characters die from exhaustion in other contexts.

I’ve been DM’ing that coming back from full death puts you to the fifth level of exhaustion. I don’t care that you didn’t die from exhaustion, if you’re mad about it get a few Greater Restorations thrown on you!

I hear you on the 5E rules being hard to memorize (I failed to recall them correctly), but one of the things that I was pleasantly surprised to like about 5E was a reduction in the amount of lookups or arithmetic needed when rolling d20 in combat. 5E exhaustion is consistent with that, employing only advantage/disadvantage or a one-time halving of movement or HP. OneD&D exhaustion means more to keep track of and calculate on the fly.

@smallolive

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. It's annoying enough trying to remember Raise Dead penalties with my character who died and was resurrected like 8 months ago IRL, though hopefully they'll be forced to properly integrate that into D&D Beyond if these exhaustion rules go through.

@JarieSuicune

Жыл бұрын

The OneD&D version basically just means you add an small Exhaustion box to the character sheet, where you put a 0-10 to indicate how bad it is. How is that at all difficult?

@gregoryspurgeon8974

Жыл бұрын

@@JarieSuicune It isn't terribly difficult. But in combat, for me, every little calculation, no matter how trivial it may seem when you read the rule, slows things down. So I personally apppreciate the way that 5E tried to minimize that. At the same time, I do love the way crunch can add verisimilitude and a visceral feel. And exhaustion is a great way to add that! So I will be interested to see how this plays out, and I do not pretend to know what it best yet even for my own table. If you have any inspirational ideas on how to make it worth a lazy DM's attention, please share! Thanks for your perspective.

Having played a bunch of 5e Adventures in Middle Earth, Exhaustion features heavily when we've played those games. Frequently, the entire party will gain an Exhaustion level together from a long journey or harsh conditions. In 5e AIME, there's generally limited opportunities for long rests and healing, so it's brutal. So much so that we needed some slight tweeking to the rule. In any event, while most vanilla 5e games may not have many instances of Exhaustion, I think you're under-selling just how debilitating even one level is. Basically, you suck at trying to do everything that's not an attack. When most of the party has a single level, it killed almost all our non-combat solutions. Sneaking, negotiating, lying, etc. all tend to fail. (Spellcasters do get off a bit freely with Exhaustion rules) Anyway, the new rule looks cool. I wonder if there's a more generic way of wording the last part that doesn't limit the effect of DCs to just spells. I imagine there's a lot of effects that aren't exactly "spells" such as auras or anything contested by your opponents' rolls.

Check out the water Rules in the Player Handbook. That is the only rule I was aware of that states where if a character already has at least one level of exhaustion, they gain two levels of exhaustion instead of 1 when they don't drink enough water. "If the character already has one or more levels of Exhaustion, the character takes two levels in either case"

I absolutely LOVE exhaustion rules. One of my biggest problems with 5e is that very few effects last beyond a long rest. No matter how beat up a party gets, they're back to full HP after 8 hours of sleep. Exhaustion is a tool the DM can use to make a long slog on the road feel meaningful. I like to include the homebrew rule that you cannot completely recover from exhaustion while roughing it in the wilderness. You have to go back to town for a room, a good meal, and some rest. I'm going to experiment with combining the old rules and the new. I'm thinking of using the new rules, but have levels 5 thru 10 mirror the effects of the old levels 1 thru 6.

I actually really like the old rules. It feels a bit more flavourful especially with the halved speed mechanic and stuff. But the cumulative negative to rolls is also cool. I'd happily combine the new rule with the old and just bump it up to a -2 penalty per level of exhaustion and have it be super mean since it is such a rare condition but could really add to the intense feeling of tracking harsh environment or pushing yourself beyond your limits

@RomanII1997

Жыл бұрын

that's what I think, too. those rules are not mutually exclusive and can work together or parallel to each other

Using exhaustion quite a lot in the two Frostmaiden games currently.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

True! That module has lots of inclement weather!!

@MikChaos

Жыл бұрын

@@BobWorldBuilder yup especially if you use the weather system from the Dmsguild product "Caul of Winter".

Great change to exhausted - simple and functional. Currently I've ported over to P2E because of issues I had with D&D5, but certainly the new directions look very promising and when 'One D&D' hits the stores I'll certainly give it a look.

you can exchange the "3 death save mechanic" with a "every fail gives you 3 levels of exhaustion" so you have the same effect with one less game mechanic in the rulebook

My favorite new rule is two-weapon fighting not using a bonus action. Should’ve always been that way, imo.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

True, that's another great change!

I would also use exhaustion as a Terror" mechanic for horror games.

My games are infamous because I keep using the exhaustion rules. The original rules were fun already for us, although quite punishing for players so they hated it as much as they loved it. Challange accepted Bob Level 1 -Disadvantage on ability checks Level 2- Speed reduced to half Level 3-Disadvantage on attacks and saving throws Level 4- Hit point reduced to half along with it's maximum Level 5- Speed is 0. Level 6- Death!

Well, we DID talk about it in our (german) video last week but it's kinda obvious why you didn't see it (: It's by far the best new rule and I really like your tweaks for adding extra exhaustion for dropping to zero.

I feel like exhaustion has been one of those effects not payed attention to due to very few things actually causing exhaustion, I personally would think that being brought back from the dead would give someone exhaustion, but something like that also wouldn't warrant that person to straight up suck at any check

@kenkoopa7903

Жыл бұрын

Raise Dead already induces a -4 penalty to basically any check, which decreases by 1 every long rest, so that'd be perfect to retcon to become exhaustion levels.

Just wanted to point out that this is not the first time WotC has used this mechanic. Exhaustion and the Exhausted condition are very similar to the condition track from the Star Wars Saga edition TTRPG from the mid 00's. That is even more true for the new exhausted rules in D&D One. In Saga edition it was more prevalent, because you would move down the condition track from all kinds of attacks like poisons and diseases, certain force powers, or even just taking too much damage from one hit. Those kinds of rules would work great with the new exhausted mechanic in D&D1.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Nice! I appreciate that perspective!

I have an experience I would like to bring up regarding exhaustion, concerning 'not the best decision' by a DM, but still a valid experience that taught us all a pretty valuable lesson. DM throws together a dungeon which is essentially an underground dwarven fortress which has been invaded and taken over by undead, whomever might be controlling the undead, and has been filled with dangerous fumes because they shutdown all the venting apparatuses meant to extract the harmful gasses from their forges, machinery and such. The party goal was to function like a special ops team, go in and secure the airflow apparatuses so that when the main body of the dwarven excursion to retake the fortress arrived, they would be able to actually breathe. We trekked up the mountain to infiltrate through an air shaft meant expressly for this purpose and has to deal with protective grating and traps around the opening, which wasn't too hard but we couldn't climb the mountain and rest nearby because there were undead patrols and such, so this was pretty much an all-in dungeon, no real opportunity to just "rest" randomly throughout the place either. We had prepared for cold conditions, rough terrain, high altitude conditions and the eventual 'fume' problem with various potions, spells and magical items, but we had not taken into account the effects of exhaustion that might build up. Long story short, the party all ended up at level 4 exhaustion by the end, due to special abilities of an incorporeal undead mini-boss and the effects of the fumes and enemy spells. The big reason I tell this long story, is that the entire dungeon was mapped out, so when the first person in the party hit level 2 exhaustion, it slowed the ENTIRE party down so we didn't leave anyone behind. At first we tried to push on a bit ahead, and to punish it, the straggler was attacked by incorporeal undead that seeped out from the walls of the place only when someone was alone. The whole experience turned out to be a horrific, very long dungeon crawl, but it was also a refreshing reminder of how painful debilitating rules can be. Even just relying on a rogue who is fumbling his sneak and pick lock attempts due to the disadvantages is really painful when failure results in more resource draining minions shuffling to surround the party. By the end we all had a good time and had roleplayed like we all had just run a marathon collapsing at the finish line, we barely survived though, and we never took the exhaustion rules lightly again.

1. Disadvantage on ability checks 2. Half movement 3. Disadvantage on attack roles and savings throws 4. ....I forget this one 5. Speed reduced to 0 6. Death

Agree this is a really good change to the exhaustion rules. Will have a lot more utility in games. I’d consider using this as an abstract wounding system rather then the optional graphic DMG wound rules. I can see a lot of uses for this.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Right! It just seems like this has a lot of potential uses

@dwil0311

Жыл бұрын

But it’s not good to design your system around optional rules and/or homebrew being necessary. This exhaustion change is terrible if they don’t include more uses for the exhaustion system.

@paidabodyndwp5357

Жыл бұрын

@@BobWorldBuilder 100% agree 👍

I do like this ruling, its very helpful as a dm tool to give weight to environments without making characters simply die. I don't think you weigh the first level of exhaustion high enough though, disadvantage on ability checks feels really bad as a player, especially a skill focused character like a rogue. I also think that 5 levels (or 4 so the person can at least move) would be a good penalty for being raised from the dead, and plan to use that ruling even if i'm still on the fence about the 10 levels variant from oneD&D.

@Mithguar

Жыл бұрын

There is enough penalties for raised from the dead as is. Starting from cost in gold, to the fact that they don't get to play when party tries to bring them back. There really is no reason to punish the player farther. And i'm sure the mention of rise dead removing a level of exhaustion only exist, so you can raise dead someone who died from exhaustion levels rather then combat. If exhaustion levels persist on death (which makes sense, body is still in need of water, food, temperature etc), Raise dead will bring someone from 6lvls (death) to 5lvls (can be taken care of and recover). Characters who died from exhaustion didn't had to have their hp reach 0. Btw, that also means that if you died from instant death effect, your hp isn't automatically reduced to 0. Rather most resurrection spells will tell you how much hp target has afterwards.

I’ll take the challenge 1. Disadvantage on ability checks 2. Speed halved 3. Disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws 4. HP halved 5. Speed 0 6. Death

Also resurrection ruling is like that because it depends on what resurrection spell you use. Some spells specifies that all injuries and conditions are gone, limbs regrown or even the full new body is created. But some of the spells (such as a Revify) says that it only revives a creature in all the conditions it was before. It leads to a death loop because of the 6th level of Exhaustion. To prevent that you lose 1 in case you died from exhaustion.

Well they don't call it being "Dead tired" for nothing, Bob 😆 I'll have to remember that if any of my players come back from the dead. I like the level of exhaustion for failed death saving and going unconscious are a nice addition especially if there are going to be 10 levels of exhaustion, and it makes recovering from a fight more meaningful. To keep it simple they almost could have had 5 levels with a -2 for every level. Thanks for the review.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Haha well said! And good points

If the d20 test include death saves... this is really nasty!

@Aironfaar

Жыл бұрын

As of now, it does. The rules for d20 Tests make it an umbrella term for attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. Death saving throws are a special kind of saving throw, so they are also d20 tests. This makes the exhausted condition incredibly nasty, and the proposed house rules that falling to 0 hp and failing a death save incurs a level of exhaustion a bad idea imo.

@BobWorldBuilder

Жыл бұрын

Bingo!

I used a sentence to memorize it: Disadvantage halved, repeat it, ouch my legs, now R.I.P. Disadvantage at skill checks Half speed Disadvantage at savings and attacks Half HP 0 speed Insta Death

Super cool rule update and one I’ll for sure tinker with and implement. Subtracting your level of exhaustion from checks etc is clever and I dig it. Personally, in terms of recovering from exhaustion I’d like to find a sweet spot in between the slow drag of 1 level recovered per long rest (barring extreme extreme circumstances I don’t love the idea of having my group feel like they have to hole up in a cave somewhere for a week, although now that I say it that could end up being really cool for a harsher survival style campaign), and the other end of the spectrum, being that they pop back up to 100% after just one long rest. Maybe that’s a quick fix of each long rest reducing exhaustion by 2 or 3 levels. Additionally, and I’m sure I’m far from the first person to think of this/it could be implied in the actual rules, but I think death saves>instant death, and maybe passing your death saves helps you stay alive an extra day or something like that. I’ve never actually been subjected (or even been in a game with for that matter) to a single level of exhaustion, but I’m hoping to get cracking on an Icewind Dale based campaign in the coming weeks so I have to imagine this stuff will be helpful in a setting like that

@Mithguar

Жыл бұрын

You had plenty of chances to get yourself out of the bind while accumulating that 6 or 11 levels of exhaustion. It is hardly an instant death. And starvation etc isn't exactly something you can just sleep off. In most critical survival situations, falling asleep=death.