You have nailed the tribe mentality. Yes, these hams are so emotional, and depending on what you say, or what you put on your QRZ page (for example), will greatly anger them. In fact some will be compelled for some kind of vendetta against you. I'm not sure why hams go down this road, but they do. However, it isn't contained to just ham radio. I've been fortunate to be involved with several hobbies, and those other hobbies have similar people with similar mentalities. My point? I recommend trying to enjoy the hobby and not take things personally. Lastly, I will admit when I first joined this hobby, hearing other hams trash my brand and model of radio, I took personally and I found myself trying to defend. It took me a long time to realize what I was doing and what I needed to do to correct the behavior. Lastly, channels like TheSmokinApe are here to help, and take what you can from them whilst channels like these are here.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Hey David. It sure would be a lot more fun if folks actually wanted to have fun... right?

@RebellionFreedom

3 ай бұрын

Facts Brother! I just ignore. Although rarely, if they are really fuming, a good sarcastic troll may be in order.

@randlecarr3257

3 ай бұрын

Great perspective

I considered an OCF dipole, but went with a doublet instead. This gives me a much better understanding of the OCF. Definitely something I want to keep in mind for future use.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for checking it out, I need to do some doublet work in the future

I’m impressed Ape. You’ve learned a few things on antennas over the last few years and do a nice job of relaying that new found knowledge. Well done ! Ok. So the long or short side doesn’t make a difference because RF isn’t DC it’s AC. You can make either side longer or shorter. Zero difference. Also you use a voltage transformer for a 4:1 or 2:1 or 6;1 depending on height. Use mix 43. Use a current balun / transformer for choking .- must have for ocf antennas. Or common mode city. A voltage balun allows both halves to be at DC ground potential for safety and quiet no static buildup . Then add the current value .. mix 31 next The first one is a ruthoff aka Voltage balun.

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

THanks Jom and I would agree with the recommendation 👍

Thank you so much The Smokin Ape! I really enjoyed your video!

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Thanks Mary, it was a fun one to make. I like doing the research needed to compile the presentation 👍

@Mary-wk6of

3 ай бұрын

I really appreciate all your hard work! Thank you so much!☺️

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Thanks Mary 👍

Seems like the Carolina Windom is a 67%-33% cut with a vertical descending coax to a choke @ 11' feet for 40' meter and 22' the eleven or twenty two foot acts as a vertical radiating element. You have a great discussion here. All the vertical radiating components are perhaps bogus. That is what my research brought out a few years ago.

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

I've never set up a true windom, just never had the desire or need. Thanks for watching Bruce, glad you liked the video 👍

Glad you are talking about this. I am in the process of re designing mine. I currently am using a 4:1 curent single core balun. With a 67/33 % cut. Depending on which cut you use affects which bands you can get.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Good luck with the re-design Bruce 👍

@godarklight

3 ай бұрын

I have 3 antennas in my 7300 and find my 80m OCF works the best for me on 40m for the regular group, and I am using the 1/3rd feed point to get 1:1 on 80/40. Its also incredibly easy to measure because you just fold the wire into 3. On the 1/3rd feedpoint though you lose 15m, but I have another antenna for that.

@bruceweight7319

3 ай бұрын

Hey thanks! I just watched your video on OCF antennas. I am going to use Rick Westermans design for a forty meter antenna, which is all I can fit on my lot. As per Ricks article I am using a 240-61 core Rutherford design 8 turns, and a 240-43 for the choke w/15 turns if I can get the high temp mis spec. PTFE dual shielded coax to fit 15 turns? We will see? Accordingly it should handle my AL-811. I do not have a good install location! To Rick''s credit he has done a lot of testing and has charts to help pick the best cores for your needs. I found him on a fb group. The coax runs under the short end of my antenna, and the long end has tricky bars and stuff close by. It currently works fairly well but with a single core current balun for light construction as it is suspended from the ends. I hope to get less common mode and more power out. I am going with 40.5% x 59.5%, which should get me 17 meters, we will see? Should have somewhat less common mode due to it being closer to the center of the antenna, plus the added choke. If that doesn't work, I will go closer to the end so that the distance the coax will be under the wire will be even less. I may change my mind and go for 15 meters as I already use a manual tuner. The North Carolina Windom is the one with the 11' foot vertical piece of coax and a choke, or a 22' foot if it's an 80 meter. The vertical coax purportedly radiates and gives it a more full radiation patern. It also gives it lower take-off angles. It supposedly won the most miles per watt contest for a wire antenna. I once had a conversation with an old wise ham (rf engineer) about voltage vs. current balun! He said, "Pick your poison", because ohms law doesn't give in! You either have current all over the place, or voltage all over the place. Either way, if you do the math you still end up with the same stray watts or power radiating out where you don't want it too. After all these years I am going to experiment with the voltage unun and see how it goes. 73 DE KB7CQ

@randlecarr3257

3 ай бұрын

Been using an OCF for MARS for a year or two now. Works well on receive on all bands and transmits pretty well all over depending on conditions. AND I can temporarily set up and take down my long end to comply with my HOA

I think Wiley Traylor's question is referring to transmission line behaviour and standing waves in the coax. I'm not even close to really understanding that stuff, but I think that's part of why we do impedance matching to begin with, so that the wave moves smoothly from the coax to the antenna, instead of having that point where you can get a mismatch. The question I'd still have there, is whether the coax length does matter, as in, whether a half wave, or quarter wave worth of cable will give different results if fed into the same resonant dipole antenna.

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

SO the think with coax length being 1/4 or 1/2 half wave, which band? I typically make the coax as long as it needs to be 🤨

@nwimpney

2 ай бұрын

@@TheSmokinApe Yeah. I think that's the practical answer regardless. I know with microwave stuff that's more common in RC planes, etc, people do try and tune the length of the feed coax, or even the leads from the outputs on the transmitters to the SMA connectors to be multiples of the wavelength, but that's probably more practical to do when you're talking 53mm wavelengths on 5.8GHz. I think the theory was that a sudden drastic change in SWR due to antenna elements being torn off in a crash (or forgetting to screw on the antenna) would be less likely to fry your transmitter if the coax itself was resonant? Either way, that stuff's so sensitive to tiny changes, and so many people are building antennas without SWR meters that probably any that were right on were just dumb luck.

OFC's are as only as good as the required Baluns. Especially because of the short leg with a lot of high voltage coming off of it wich promotes high ammouts of RFI near metallic objects. The best Muti-Band antenna is cut for the lowest band and frequency installed flat-top and symmetrical with full efficiency and lowest loss is the Doublet Antenna system center fed with 600ohm balance line directly connected to a good quality legal Limit T or L network tuner which makes it Resonant everywhere from 10 to 80 meters...

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

I suspect you are right about the dublet. Thanks for the comment Artc 👍

Great show Gents!

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Thanks Marvin 👍

Thanks, Ape, for the lesson in OCFD's. This helps with my knowledge base.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Awesome Tater, glad it was helpful 👍

I only operate portable and my favorites are EFHW for really lightweight equipment and occasionally OCFD when taking a portable mast with me. Both are great antennas for field operation!

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

I’d agree. The EFHW is really hard to beat. Thanks for watching Stefan 👍

Btw, I have the Spiderbeam 40m OCFD sold in the US by Vibroplex that’s designed by Rick Dj0ip … and I think it’s a really great performer, quite quiet on receive, and quite reasonably priced for what it is. I also have a New Carolina Windom from another maker from eBay… nowhere near as useful by not being nearly as good of a match to so many bands. If you want one for portable, I just think you’d have a hard time finding or building a better one from a performance and value perspective. If, however, you’re going to invest in an OCFD for your home and it’s going to sit in one spot, do get out and build one. There are two other really superb videos or series on KZread about OCFDs for anybody who wants to build one. One is Rick’s and the other is by Steve K1RF. Highly recommended.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for the tips about building Kinetic. I've seen Rick's OCFD and it does appear to be a fantastic antenna.

Great video. Right now testing a 20 foot OCF Flagpole antenna

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Good luck with it 👍

As a options trader as well as a ham, every time I see ratios those oddball ratios, I think *_FIBONACCI RATIOS._* (Which are akin to _Black Magic!)_

I run a 135 foot and 270 foot Buckmaster OCF antennas and they work great. They shouldn't but I get under 3:1 SWR on all amateur bands from 6 to 80 or 160 Meters depending which one I'm using. Technically they should be above 3:1 SWR on 15, 30 and 60 but they aren't. Are they the perfect antenna, no, there is no perfect antenna. Do they come with problems, yes. As you mentioned common mode current is the number one problem. I found that out the first time I used one without a choke. Every time I transmitted I would turn on or off a touch lamp in the house, set off the carbon monoxide detector, could hear myself coming out of my answering machine and tripped the GFI breaker in the basement to the chest freezer. Stuck two CMC chokes on the coax the next day and that fixed that problem.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Hey Mike, for the GFI problem I have CMC chokes everywhere. Thanks for the comment 👍

Dear Ape & All, thank you for the effort you have put into this. I have only dipoles or verticals with adjustable coil. Every time a change to operating frequency was needed, there was a need to adjust the coil, then check the SWR meter, and then restart. Not had, but, a bit “clunky”. Also, a single frequency dipole was excellent - but - limiting. Recently I put up a PE “End Fed Off Center Fed Dipole” antenna. It has SWR less than 2.0 on 80, 40, and 20 - at least. Transmitting and receiving using this antenna have been effective. Now, I am super interested to build my own, using a 4:1 balun. It seems passing the coax multiple 8+ times through a ferrite ring near the balun and just before my radio will be the key to keeping CMC and QRN in check. That’s the hope. Thanks again. KQ4IXD

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Sounds like a solid plan for the build, good luck with it FM 👍

I had a windom 160 ocf . Mine was 70ft up flat . Feed with lmr 400. I had it under ground. Ran sw to ne . It worked great. Did did have the current choke in line 25ft down from antenna. Best antenna I have tried. I had it once at center of 90ft and it was worse. Worked all states, all 7 contenets,200 countries. All on 100 watts. Tree branch fell on it destroyed balum and wires. It was rated for 1500watts . Only band I not worked it on was 60meters. Did run tuners. My auto tuner would nit tune 30 but manually turned I could get it on a Drake tuner. Total length with ropes 300ft long.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

That sound pretty cool, sorry to hear about the damage

great show. busy with work . had to watch re play. I have the MFJ off set center dipole. 40/20/10/6 meter 1.5 KW . that was pre bult and was trickly to tune wire. took hours . that is made up of 3 ferrites. they used 2 cores to make the 4:1 and that makes it a BAL BAL .then the 1:1 Balun. does work. I did try to make a mono band one for 10 meters and ran it vertical . used a 4:1 Balun into 1:1 CMC choke. hard to tune and the short leg was down and a had to elevate the feed line for about 17 ft . then drop to ground. I did get a tune and lots of contacts but hours to deploy and tune it. just not worth it. the end fed half wave vertical with 49:1 UNUN 3 in above ground and 4 ground radials . works much better and better RX . easy set up . to help answer about CMC on receive the answer can be yes. RFI or EMI can come threw the out side shield and into radio. making high noise floor. it can happen. that why a choke at both ends can be better. not going to hurt if you all ways choke at radio. helps with noise floor at times. 73's

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Hey Richard, thanks for the info 👍 I had the MFJ OCFD a few years back and liked it quite a bit.

What's the difference between an OCFDP and a random-wire with a counterpoise - I mean in practical terms? 🤔 The only thing that comes to mind offhand would be that you presumably want the OCFDP to be resonant across the combined lengths of the elements and the random-wire to not be resonant on the positive element, but what's the practical difference in physical design? Thanks.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

I answered your questions here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/h411rcqkh9jFdJs.html

OCFs sure can be confusing to tune. I built a 207' OCF (an attempt to get 40 meter gain off the end) that had so many resonance points on the nanaVNA I didn't know where to start. I think some of the confusion stems from the effort needed to determine whether the current is rising or falling at the feed point on each band. End effect causes every band above the fundamental to be high on frequency forcing a compromise (and a tuner). Plenty of adjustments, feed point, total length and balun choice. The standard 66' ones I've built seemed to like a 20%-80% feed point.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Wow at 202’ 😮. It’s going to be 66’ feet here

I use a 270-foot OCF, and it works great on 80m and most bands. It's quoted as being a 160m OCF, but it's not very good for 160m as its not high enough.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, for 160, Id imagine you gotta get it way up there 👍

@KB1UIF

3 ай бұрын

@TheSmokinApe yup, way way up. It's ok, but the SWR isn't great. I had a full-length folded version dipole that fits into the same area as an 80m Dipole around 125' you just take the ends and bring them back towards the center without touching. So it looks like this . That worked great on 160m until a tree took it out. Lol.

I have found that baluns eat up power even choke balun can lower signals. I like g5rvs doublets and fan dipole zs6bkw.

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

They can. Thanks for watching Steve.

Ready for the 75 ohm coax video.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Haha, I have a few others I need to do for the sponsors first 🤔

51:14 Ham ‘til it Hertz asked since RF is AC, why does it matter which leg of the OFCD is the short one. Can you enlighten us?

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

The longer leg, being longer, will carry current further. You would want the shorter leg to act as a counterpoise 👍

Great content. My home QTH compromised mangled zigzagging folded EFHW, coil shortened for 40/20/10 goes bonkers when I throw it up a tree. 10m goes from 28.4MHz to 27.5MHz 3 years of iterations and its perfect, but throw it up a tree (sloper)… and it’s how many iterations shall we do today then? At least I’m getting a decent sun tan.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Haha @ suntan!

I am still completely confused what a counterpoise does on an end feed half wave. I have used a section of coax going to grounded lightning protection and I've had no 'known' issues without a counterpoise. I want to understand the unknown issues that I have. What am I missing? Would a Smith chart sweep of an end fed antenna with and without a counterpoise show anything? Would antenna modeling show anything?

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Sure, smith charts help you understand reactance better. An EFHW will "work" without a counterpoise and you can use the coax shield as a ground. I explained in the video you are using an Earth ground, which is resistive in nature... it's one way. RF is alternating current (AC) and a true counterpoise is capacitive which allows for current to alternate. WIthout a counterpoise you are also increasing the likelihood and the amount of common mode current coming back into your shack. So, can an EFHW work well without a CP... sure but it can work better with one. Do what works for you and have fun 👍

I have interchanged a 4:1 Ruthroff Balun with a 4:1 Ruthroff Unun in my Hybrid baluns on both 40m and 80m OCFD antennas. I found no difference at all. Reason: the 4:1's only task here is to transform impedance. The 1:1 Guanella choke balun (that must be directly attached to the 4:1) handles all of the impeding of the Common Mode Current. 73, DJ0IP

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

Thanks Richard, I'll play around with the different types more, I appreciate the comment 👍

Even though it won’t be “correct” from every possible angle, I’ll give my opinion on why I think most people find the word “balun” more appropriate (than unun) for the device at the feedpoint of a coax-fed OCFD dipole. I’m laying out an argument, but I’m not trynna argue with you. 🤓 Clearly, we are limiting ourselves by using only one term or the other. First remark is, if the device(s) placed where the two wires meet would meet all your criteria to be a balun IF two exactly equal-length wires had been connected to it (running in essentially opposite directions), then it likely is and always will be a balun. For a balun, one would likely expect the terminals, before you connect a wire to them, to be balanced terminals. Throwing two different length wires on it probably won’t take its identity as a balun away from it. 😜 Those devices are often expected not only to transform but generally also to choke. Often the choking (e.g., guanella 1:1) produces balance. And the physical layout determining how the typical balun interfaces with the antenna elements is different than it is with a typical unun. On the balanced antenna, they serve a couple purposes-one, to physically allow you to extend two wires in essentially opposing directions-and two, to try to keep as much of the current on the radiating elements as possible (and thus minimizing radiation from the feed line). In other words, they serve both a balancing mechanical component and an electrical choking component. I know, if the purpose were only mechanical, it wouldn’t be either a balun or an unun :) The device at the feedpoint of a typical coax-fed OCFD (my understanding before the video is that this is a Carolina Windom) is also expected to do both of those functions. If it does an impedance transformation as well, that doesn’t diminish those two primary functions. Making a hybrid device that transforms and then chokes, by using more than one core (whether they are cascaded in series or whether they’re in parallel), and if it’s suspended in the middle of two opposing wires, well-that device is probably a balun :) if you hook a line isolator directly to a single-core transformation box, well, you have yourself a balun that isn’t all packed away into one piece of PVC. :) transformer(unun)+line isolator(1:1) with two opposing wires … probably tips the scales towards balun being the better overall descriptor than unun. If my memory holds correctly the NEW Carolina Windom is also coax fed, but has a short, tuned stub of coax that radiates. The common mode isolation is not up where the wires meet, just a little ways down. … so I guess we have the Windom (1 wire), Carolina (coax ideally choked), New Carolina (coax choked partway down). I think 😅

I have a couple of elmers, and one of them says he only uses 'resonant' antennas. By this means only the standard center feed dipoles. He has a center fed fan dipole 160, 80, 40, 20. They go of in different directions. Is this the best way to go if you have space? I have plenty of room (acres and acres). What is a good option? I don't want to deal with towers. Budget is more limiting than space.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Everyone has their own way, you need to find what works best for you. I’d suggest playing around with some multi-band long wires like an EFHW and a 9:1 Random wire. That said, for a single bander, a good dipole is hard to beat 👍

@bassmanjr100

3 ай бұрын

Thx. I've only been a ham for a couple years. Seems that everyone has their own thing. One person you talk to says OCFD are terrible and the next one swears by them. I basically have a 40, 20, 15 and 10 antenna. 12 and 17 with a tuner. I'd like to get the low bands. I was thinking about maybe a big loop (skyloop?) Just not sure it is worth the effort 😂.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

I’d like a sky loop but don’t have the space

@richardwesterman5773

2 ай бұрын

@@bassmanjr100 If you can put up a SKY-LOOP, by all means go with that one! 73 - DJ0IP.

Is there anyway to make an effective fan (multi element) end fed half wave? Or is there much point... Re: is difference between the Balun and Unun is that one affects the Magnetic field the other effects the electric field? All labels are 100% subjective, FYI English is not the only language on the planet. Re Nano VNA, we need (low jargon) paperback books on how to use them step by step (paint by numbers) colour photos included to use them effectively.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

I wouldn’t make a fan end fed, if I wanted to get “extra” bands I would use traps. I agree with your point about technical terms, but not made up “ham words” that have subjective interpretation 👍

@GH0ST369

3 ай бұрын

Sorry I was editing further points (I'm the king of after thought)​@@TheSmokinApe you need to make a book on Nano VNA set up and comprehensive operation, I really enjoy how you explain things technical in an easy to follow format. What about the Balun/Unun schematic difference...?

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

@@GH0ST369 shoot me an email TheSmokinApe @ gmail .com and I can email you the schematic 👍

@jameski5oeb668

3 ай бұрын

@@TheSmokinApeyou could easily do an explanation video on the schematics. I would like that, because I too enjoy your no BS explanations of things.

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Understanding 4:1 Baluns and UNUNs for Amateur Ham Radio Antennas kzread.info/dash/bejne/pYp-mrp9ic6doJc.html

I Run Such Antenna And Its Off Center By Around 7 Meters :D Gets ALL BANDS With My own Homebrew Filters...

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Nice 👍

Vail Arizona

Is the ocfd really the best multi band hf antenna or is the doublet ?

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

I suppose it’s debatable and a matter of preference 👍

@Pioneer936

2 ай бұрын

@@TheSmokinApe the difference and advantage with the doublet is that using ladderline there's less loss which can be considerably on some bands with the ocf

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

I don’t disagree

@richardwesterman5773

2 ай бұрын

There is no such thing as "The Best". It all depends on what the user wants. After 45 years of using openwire-fed dipoles and balanced tuners, I have switched to the OCFD (after I perfected it) and there is no way I would ever go back to using the balanced-wire fed dipole and having to use a tuner on all bands. 73 - DJ0IP

The famous K4ARN specials!

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

👍

I can't believe you bad mouth my '78 Camino Car.

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

Lol

Terminology does matter. It can mislead those trying to learn. It confuses communication. The ATU is a classic example. It's not arguing for the sake of arguing it's getting things right.

@TheSmokinApe

Ай бұрын

Hey Mark. whether I call it an ATU a coupler or a transmatch doesn't really matter. WHat matters is that we understand what it does and the purpose.

Not sure what I was doing when I missed the live notification but team replay strikes again 😅

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Hey, you’re here now 🤣

Pardon my language, but … *”CRAP AND A HALF”!* There’s still no way I’m going to get an 80/40 m. *_NVIS_* antenna into the backyard I have to work with … Maybe I can write to my _Congress-critter_ and get _Ohm’s Law_ amended, or would it be _Maxwell’s Equations?_ 😀 *73 de AF6AS* P.S. Running that antenna too close to a rusty *ANYTHING* ... and the rusty joints will act like diodes and you might have a giant _"crystal radio",_ perhaps with the modulation coming out of the horn ...

"Poseidon"? "Mercury"? Do you have *Thor* or maybe *Zeus?*

@TheSmokinApe

Ай бұрын

Not yet

THE PROBLEM most people have when considering the OCFD antenna is, they begin with a false premise. They assume we must look for a feedpoint position with the “same impedance” on all bands they intend to operate on. THERE IS NO SUCH THING! There are three problems with this premise. First of all, there is no special need for the impedance/SWR to be identical on all bands. It needs to be within a range that our transceiver can easily work with. Second, the graphs showing current curves for each band are all false, because the impedance of the antenna varies with electrical height above ground. In an OCFD, the antenna is the same “physical” height above ground on all bands, but its “electrical” height is different from band to band. Third, the different way in which End-Effect affects the different bands causes resonance on harmonic bands skew upwards, resulting in a shift in impedance. As a result, there is no feedpoint position that has the same impedance on all bands. Our design goal must be to find the feedpoint position with the “Best Compromise” in impedance on the bands we wish to operate. When we do this, there is no reason not to include the 15m band, unless we don’t wish to use that band. 73 - DJ0IP

@TheSmokinApe

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the perspective Richard, I'm a big fan of your content 👍

New to all this radio insanity....This stuff is hard to learn😂😂😂😂 I MEAN DANG!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

It does seem complex, even to experienced hams 👍

@stanbrown915

3 ай бұрын

@@TheSmokinApe Makes me feel a little bit better 🤣🤣🤣

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

@@stanbrown915 haha

Not a fan of ocf. I do like fans and loops. Not mag loops lol

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Use what you like, thanks for watching Jay 👍

How did yall get Jeem into an antenna talk?...threats?.. bribery?....

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Haha, a little of both 😳

Designed by space aliens

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

Most likely

whats the point have three people beside you talking dispensable things .... be honest... i dont like that kind of video!

@TheSmokinApe

3 ай бұрын

They are friends of mine and we have a group channel together, Coffee and Ham Radios. We get along and hang out together and that includes live streams. Sorry you don’t like the format….

@Kinetic79

3 ай бұрын

I get a kick out of it. So. American. :)