Cavern of Souls not making the list is a war crime

@zweis

Ай бұрын

Isn't that one in utility lands? I feel like that'd make more sense lol

@viigg0875

Ай бұрын

@@zweisit is and but i mean ancient tomb was also there. For perspective cavern of souls was a 7 and tomb a 4 in a scale where they just ranked cards in top 10 style.

@skylerdavis8839

Ай бұрын

But I would agree? Outside of tivit, godo, and atraxa, who runs it?

@zweis

Ай бұрын

@@skylerdavis8839 Blue Farm does

@murdermastodon7469

Ай бұрын

They talked about it on their other land review cast I’m pretty sure

I have never passionately disagreed with a rankings list more, god i love play to win content

@samuelbeall439

Ай бұрын

🤣This is an accurate comment! Still great content!

@theaamanable

Ай бұрын

What did you disagree with?

I love that when Cam gets over excited his laugh is literally hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk

I yelled at cam that fetchlands were printed in onslaught and finished in zendikar then the orderlies dragged me back to the old folks home.

This land is your land. This land is my land. From Underground river to the basic Island.

@Mulletdog1

Ай бұрын

You win today

@javiernaranjo8087

Ай бұрын

This game was made for you and me🎶

@jordancaldwell2208

Ай бұрын

​@@javiernaranjo8087if I'm playing Underground River and Basic Island then this game was made for me and me.

@radikaldesignz

Ай бұрын

This land was made for you and me 🎶 (Rainbow Vale)

I actually think the fetch lands are significantly better than the duels. The only difference that duals have to shocks is two life, and while they are still incredibly powerful, the ability for fetchlands to fuel graveyards, shuffle at instant speed, and be whatever color whenever you need, they can even be card selection with the new surveil lands, i think whay fetches do is much more valuable than what og duals provide.

@thesamuraiman

Ай бұрын

That's a good way to look at it.

@colinfanning9854

Ай бұрын

Yes fetches are way better duels would be fine and important but only one in a hundred cards without them with them they're easily 5 to 11 copies in a Deck

@magusofthebargain

Ай бұрын

You are correct, mostly because of a little card called Brainstorm.

@carlosfernandez4536

Ай бұрын

Definitely. Even with a mono colored deck playing fetches lets you slim down the deck given some more consistent draws

38:20 Mana Confluence is slightly better than City of Brass, Cam is always right and Food Chain always wins games.

@T_v_W2

Ай бұрын

Nah City is beter

@ShyQharacter

Ай бұрын

Agreed. If you have urborg or Yavimaya, Confluence can be tapped for ⚫️ or 🟢 to prevent life loss, but Brass will deal damage no matter what

@CliffjunglingNagaSiren

Ай бұрын

Giving your opponents a trigger to respond to is always a potential downside brass is far worse

@InmAncalagon

Ай бұрын

Mana Confluence gets stopped by Yasharn though. Also City of Brass is a trigger so you can still tap it while at 1 life if you have a way to win at instant speed in response to the trigger.

@jmcomparan

Ай бұрын

@@InmAncalagonKarn’s Sylex stops it too, although it’s rare you’d see in in cEDH though lol

4:50 OG Zendikar was the first set that had enemy colored fetches. Cam isn't totally wrong.

@brendans1983

Ай бұрын

Diplomatic 👍

Honestly I like Gemstone Caverns a little better than Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond, because when you top deck it with an empty hand it still provides you with a resource you can use. The other two are absolute dead draws with an empty hand AND they trigger Rhystic Study effects and are awful into Rule of Law effects.

@mitchellsellers7791

Ай бұрын

I think it depends on what type of deck you are playing too. Turbo decks, particularly ad nauseam decks, will prefer having the rocks, as you only get one land drop per turn.

@RINNECODA

Ай бұрын

@@mitchellsellers7791exactly, turbo decks will want the rocks to get a faster naus but it’ll also enable a better post-naus too

Cam is 100% right on Forbidden Orchard. It is a 1. I have never felt good about using or including it. I have cut it from every single deck I play (RogSi, Atraxa, Sythis, Krark/Sakashima).

Guys forgot: Cavern of Souls, Urza's Saga, Otawara and Boseiju!

@anthonybuck4864

Ай бұрын

Those were in the utility lands list they did a bit ago!!

@carlospadilla7247

10 күн бұрын

Again every land you mentioned is a utility land

In the MTGO vintage cube, you definitely pick fetches ahead of duals because triomes also exist. Fetches are a tier above duals in priority. If triomes aren't in the cube, it's much closer.

You can tutor command tower with tower winder!

24:26 this laugh can cure any depression

@starchaser6024

Ай бұрын

HYUK hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk a gah ha

The new york knicks are named after knickerbockers. It refers to the style of pants dutch settlers wore...pants that rolled up just below the knee, which became known as "Knickerbockers", or "knickers.

Really cool part about Dylan playing Atraxa I get to hear her as a frame of reference for the next 2 months in videos. I am genuinely happy about it!.

I feel you cam. I also have that excited puppy loud voice energy.

Great video. I'd love to see you all talk about the best combo's in cEDH soon.

The constant threat of a potential "I Think You Should Leave" reference keeps me coming back

@toctheyounger

Ай бұрын

Whenever there isn't I think "this is the greatest betrayal that's ever been seen"

It brings me untold joy that Cam has a One Piece laugh.

Such a fun video, been busy so took 3 days to watch the whole thing but it was 110% worth it!!

Gemstone Mine's quality definitely hinges on your strategy, I think. In a Turbo deck, it's an easy auto-include. Once you start going towards a slower Stax strategy, it falls off pretty quick. Great video!

Few months ago I have cut Forbidden Orchard from my Prossh list, BUT, since I realised how good early game Defense of the Heart can be (to find 2-piece creature combo) so I put Forbidden Orchard back to my deck and it works- for me, at least.

is it just me or does Glimmervoid not get enough love?

In cube you usually want to take fetch lands before dual lands, not because they are necessarily better, but because they are in higher demand/lower supply. There are usually shocks, tiomes, and now surveil lands that can all be paired with fetches.

I love this guys, nice work!!

A little Surprised to not see thran quarry, Rog loves that land. I think it still sees play in Najeela and other creature based decks too.

I love how there's more disagreement about lands than any of the actual spells discussed in these podcasts. Rating playability of all 5 colors worth of spells? Easy. True Duel Lands? We riot!

Other lands I really like are the Slow lands. I do not play them in all decks, but in two color decks and non-turbo three color decks they are good. Most of the time they come in untapped.

Well new fave magic podcast love both the guys energy especially together new sub

Forbidden Orchard griefing your opponent's Tymna draws and Ragavan attacks is an upside that y'all are missing. Is it as good as Mana Confluence? Probably not. But it's pretty solid.

Already my favorite CEDH content by a country mile, but Dylan lamenting the sixers loss really is the cherry on top

Was nervous when it seemed you were putting exotic orchard above mana confluence/city Nice audible Cam👍👍👍

Good call on terminating the decimal on 1.99. If you don't, it's just equal to 2.

You guys should rank all the banned cards 🙏 was inspired when you definitively decided that City of Traitors is 100% a better card then black lotus

Dylan's shirt game is always on point. It took me a minute to figure out what it said, but love the Becky's rep!

We need a second part of cEDH lands. Y’all missed so many playable and potent lands- and you even name dropped some (Otawara, Gaea’s). Personally requesting the inclusion of Plaza of Heroes

Forbidden Orchard in 5 coloured Turbo deck is very good. Also it can be used to give other players spirits for block when they are attacked. In my cedh playtime i got a bunch of ragavans, esper Sentinels and other X/1s with this.

I feel like great hall of the citadel is pretty good. It’s like a signet that can also tap for colorless except it can filter for any combo of colors

without dual lands and shocklands, the fetchlands would not be nearly as powerful. Tapping a land for one color on turn 1 and another color on turn 2 is where this combo really shines. It's such an old combo and so commonly used that people forget just how powerful it is. If you are new to Magic, the first 20 cards I recommend picking up are a playset of shock lands and a playset of fetch lands, Oh and a playset of original dual lands if you can afford it. You can say "yeah I just started playing Magic, so I only have 30 cards in my collection so far, but that's almost a third of the way to a deck!!"

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

well... if you are new to magic i think most people don't even know if they'll stick for it for a longer time. maybe the also just play very casually... and then telling them to spend about 100€ on all fetchlands + 100€ on shock lands isn't what i would tell them... that's a 200€ investment for a game you might not stick with for longer. get a precon and check if you enjoy it first.... also before spending 200€ bucks on 20 cards is still not something i would recommand, rather buy a printer with that money and suddenly you can have all you ever might want. i personally would only tell someone to buy them if they wanted to collect cards or just really really dislike playing with proxies. the only real cards i have are about 3000 commons which i just use to put them into sleeves with my printed cards so it acutally feels like a cards and doesn't wobble around lol

@magusofthebargain

Ай бұрын

@@dekina1198 Hopefully, if someone is new to Magic, they can be given a box of commons, and enough basic lands for 5 mono-colored decks. Casual 60-card formats still exist, but I would recommend that players start with 40-card decks, since a brand new player's whole collection is basically a limited sealed pool. After building up confidence with these casual decks, they could go on to play sealed and draft at an LGS. The value here being the experience more than the cards themselves, but for budget reasons, I recommend cube drafting for new and old players alike.

I love me a good glimmervoid risky but effective

I think forbidden orchard is fine if you don't rely on attacking and are pip intensive. Handing out blockers against Tymna's and Najela's should end up more relevant than the tokens being used some other way because them being used as blocker should come up a lot more. I'm currently running it on a midrange Jan Jansen deck.

In Breya, I play all the painlands due to their interaction with Forsaken Monument. Forsaken + Basalt Monolith being the important combo. (Also talismans matter more, mishra's workshop, etc)That gas only deck that tries to win immediately is the exception though.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

well, forsaken monument isn't a card i ever saw in a cEDH game... i sounds good in casual tho

@ManrielXiii

Ай бұрын

@@dekina1198 It's because you dont put it in every deck.

Brainstorm is such a great card. I'm thinking of putting it back into my cEDH list. You're only really supposed to cast it on the turn you win. Gotta hold that Brainstorm as long as possible. Same with Time Walk.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

a cards that is "dead" untill you want to win doesn't sound good to me

@magusofthebargain

Ай бұрын

@@dekina1198 Why do you think Brainstorm is restricted in Vintage? Should it be unrestricted? What would that do to the format? Brainstorm is a great topdeck late game in a deck where you have extra cards in your hand to shuffle away with a fetchland. Tutors are much better than card draw in a 99-card format, so maybe Brainstorm doesn't make the cut in most 5-color decks, but if you're playing 1, 2, or even 3 colors and you're not playing Brainstorm, you might be missing out on a late game card draw opportunity.

What about the lands that tap for 2 colors and removes a counter? I uae it in monocolor / 2 color heavy pip comanders.

I actually do play Command Tower in my mono color decks, but that’s because in my playgroup there are cards like Choke and Boil being played.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

sounds like they just dislike blue, lol

@Yourbeautiful666

Ай бұрын

@@dekina1198 Lol well our group is comfy with MLD/Land hate, so it’s all fair game no matter the color. But yes they do hate on my blue decks lol.

Did i completely miss it or were the triomes completely skipped? In a three color deck i am picking triomes up over surveil lands unless it combos with something

Prismatic Vista is good in a Blood Moon heavy meta where you are always fetching for basic lands. Hermit Druid players don't play it though. Gemstone Mine is only good in super fast turbo decks where you actually consistently try to win on turn 3. Forbidden Orchard is for 5 color combo decks where you don't care about board state, you just need consistent mana to combo off.

It's funny because you would think the value of Pain Lands would go up, just as another avaliable way to use "Null-E-Blast" when it comes out. But to be honest you're only countering multi-color lower tier commanders. Most high cEDH commanders get around this like Nigelia, Sisay, or Yuriko. But it will be valuable for Kennan after a turn cycle, or if you're lucky Atraxa. Counters culling Ritual. So not having blue and stopping some early turn 3 play with a pain is not that bad. Pains will feel better in my Abzan control or Voltron Boros because of Null Elemental Blast.

With the Blue Moon and Blood Moon, how do the effects layer? Are all your non-basic lands able to count as Mountains and Islands?

@dancingmathusalem5451

Ай бұрын

Because they are both typesetting effects, it goes to timestamps

A lot of these dual lands with downside are budget options. I run them in my tivit

I'm so sad that the tango lands didn't get mentioned. I feel like I lean to those before even considering the surveil lands.

@carlospadilla7247

10 күн бұрын

Remember, this is from the pov of cedh not budget and surveil lands are fetchable so Unless your 2 color deck has 40 land, why would you run these?

@Shiftcor

7 күн бұрын

@@carlospadilla7247 exactly! I do think that the surveil lands will see a bunch more play in budget decks going forward now that we've had a month to try em out.

Took my forbidden orchard out for undercity sewers last week.

So you know, i would watch you two doing deep dives into the entomology of words. start with the New York Knicks.

Pain lands from my understanding are played over Horizon lands. I play 1 pain land in my Tivit List for the extra blue / white pips

How good would a sliver queen deck be?

I play Crystal Vein in my Jhoria, Weatherlight Captain historic storm deck 😅 What about fomori Vault, though?

Fetches are always better than duals, even more now with the surveil lands

Thanks for your content and ranking:)🎉 . But i cant find the triome lands😢. Does this means my deck are wores then decks with standardlands?😮😂😢😂

haha very random but in case no one answered the New York Knicks are named originally the New York Knickerbockers which was later shortened.

I'm a little suprised by your opinion on the Prismatic Vista I find that to be at least a 3.1 at least Personally, I will have at least a few basic lands in my deck for various reasons and having something that can deck thin or shuffle the deck can be useful I do hate that it's pricey though

Krarkashima plays forbidden orchard in order to abuse snap

i feel like the print count and prices of each of these lands should had been mentioned. Because let's be real, if the land can enter untapped and provide you with options of colors, it's going to be more valuable and sought after than a land that would enter tapped especially since right now we only have about three cards available in the game right now that allows lands to enter untapped.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

cEDH is a competative format, so you play the best cards you have access to, and the format is so proxy friends, 300 bucks for a dual land isn't worth it if you are not looking at collecting. instead buy a printer for that money and you have all your cards you ever want

Id have ancient tomb at 5 if your playing signets.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

appart from acrane signet, signets rarely see play in cEDH

@Aarvex

Ай бұрын

@@dekina1198 He probably means talismans which do see plenty of play

City of Traitors is better than black lotus, Play to Win certified

Are all these lands that sacrificw themselves good in gitrog?

Urborg + Yavimaya make mana conflience happy

fetchlands are nr1, would rate them nr 1 just cos they can find utility as well

forbidden orchard is also meh if your deck wants to connect with creatures. like najeela tokens get blocked, tymna decks doesn't want them because you wanna connect to

I have actually started cutting Gemstone Caverns from my lists, unless it is a turbo deck. The reason being that you only see it in your opening hand once out of 70+ games. And if I mulligan to 4 or 3 I do not want this land. In a turbo list it is necessary, otherwise it is not a good card in my humble opinion.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

i personally only have gemstone caver in either decks that want to be really fast OR decks where the commander(s) have card draw to make up for the disadvantage

Awesome list. Gemstone caverns is my #1, but I agree with most of your placings

What do you think about reflecting pool? I like it in 2-3 color decks but that’s an interesting card

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having a land that does nothing on turn 1 hurts

@dreynip

Ай бұрын

@@dekina1198 Sure, but at that point it's exactly the same as Exotic Orchard and Reflecting Pool doesn't rely on your opponents

The best deck to play Forbidden Orchard is definetely Kelsien, The Plague. One guaranted exp. counter each turn 👍🏽.

No Gaea's Cradle? I feel like we forgot some lands existed here lol

The price of the original dual lands I think should put them below the fetch lands due to accessibility issues and the fact fetches have no suitable alternative, whereas we have shock lands as replacement dual lands.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

99% of the cEDH community is totally fine with proxies, so instead of buying a dual for 300€ you can also just buy a printer for 300€ and have all cards you ever want (to a little of extra expenses for ink and paper)

i value surveil lands over even the battlebond opponent lands

I've killed a player with a City of Brass by blinking Derevi (Emiel + Cradle). But other than this sort of niche interaction, City of Brass is better than Mana Confluence.

Pain lands and horizon lands should be a scoach higher, because you have to use them for a 4th turn to have lost more life than fetching for a shock

Gaea's cradle - 4.7 creature decks play this card Reflecting pool - 4.1 bad first, can't color fix. Still great (I love this card and am rating it higher than it should probably go out of personal bias) Triomes - 2.6 just run a surveil land in this slot Reveal lands - 1 bad don't give your opponent free info Buddy lands - 1.8 only run in 2 color decks, meh

Fetches are better in cube. Fetches early can put you in ALMOST any color combo. Dual lands immediately tie you to that color combo.

Does Reflecting Pool not see cEDH play? I imagine it would be rated around the same as Exotic Orchid.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

only ever saw it in 2 color decks. having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having a land that does nothing on turn 1 hurts

To play devil's advocate, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use a spirit from forbidden orchard for anything useful in my entire time playing cedh. There's always one deck in a pod that just doesn't care about having spirits or is way too behind for it to matter. There's also the upside that I've seen many times where people give away spirits for free to keep a tevesh from getting to the ultimate lmao. Idk maybe I'm biased because of the decks I play against all the time but I don't think it's bad.

Ancient Tomb 4.8, done.

Knicks are called the Knicks because of the word Knickerbacker which is what they are actually named after

Newer to cEDH but for 3/4 color decks do we not even consider triomes?

@yawgmoththeineffable8660

Ай бұрын

Hi, coming into play tapped makes them too slow/not optimal for cEDH. A 3-color deck already plays 3 duals, 3 shocks, 7 fetch lands, Command Tower, Mana Confluence, City of Brass, Exotic Orchard, Gemstone Caverns and few other 2-colored, that comes untapped (like Battlebond ones or Modern Horizon ping lands). Then there’s handful of utility lands and triomes just don’t make the cut.

@Some_Context

Ай бұрын

color fixing in cEDH is really good even in 5c so them tapping for 3 colors isn't a huge boon. That small benefit doesn't outweigh the drawback of them coming in tapped, even if you just run one in your 99 and then fetch it when you aren't doing anything else. That last scenario has also been taken up by the surveil lands, so there really isn't any place for them.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having lands that come is only okey if there is another upside. and tapping for 3 colors isn't enough imo. i think the once that are fetchable can be played in exactly 3 color decks. but appart from that, they mostly only see play in budget lists

You can fetch command tower with tower winder

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

yes you can now! tho i don't think tower winder is a playable card in cEDH, maybe if it would put it into play instead of your hand

I didn't come to this channel to get upset about the officiating in Sixers-Knicks again 😭

How do you guys feel about holdout settlement?

@brendanthorne8353

Ай бұрын

Also wondering about reflecting pool. Asking for a friend

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

@@brendanthorne8353 having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having a land that does nothing on turn 1 hurts holdout settlement has a simular problem but atleast tapps for colorless. tho i never saw it in any commander games, the downside for having to tap a creature also hurts. i personally would run thran quarry over it tho that one still doesn't see much play

I can understand missing Serra’s Sanctum, but Gaea’s Cradle?!?!

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

same. i think the only deck that can use Serra's Sanctum would be Sythis

Land tax for basics are something

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

yeah, sure. but appart from mono white decks i never see land tax in cEDH and even then, it's more used to kinda trim your deck to draw your important cards more often

Tri-Lands don’t make the cut? Even four and five color decks?

From a Niv boy, cascade bluffs doesn’t see play. There’s just better options even for two color decks

I think gemstone caverns can be overrated. While it’s a great land when it’s in the opener, if it’s not it’s almost a dead card in certain decks. For example I like to play Niv Mizzet but I don’t play gemstone because I depend on my colors way to much to risk it not being in my opener. Once I get into 4-5 color decks it can also be a little sketchy depending on your color count.

Are triomes not used enough in cedh?

@franslair2199

Ай бұрын

They're taplands so that's an inherent issue.

@Highwang

Ай бұрын

@@franslair2199 Yeah, I just feel like i've seen them in play on the channel but I could be mistaken.

@iPhoneeditor

Ай бұрын

​@@Highwang The only one I see regularly is Jetmir's garden in Naya decks like Rocco and even then only sometimes. They use stack interaction less and when they have a free fetch that can graph a tapped shock land or triome they can grab it as another land that will tap for all their colors for no downside. The potential upside of cycling it to draw a card in decks that aren't running blue is sometimes handy too so it's a bit less dead in your hand, but still not ideal.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

having a turn 1 play is pretty important in cEDH, especially if you have faster decks at the table. so having lands that come is only okey if there is another upside. and tapping for 3 colors isn't enough imo. i think the once that are fetchable can be played in exactly 3 color decks. but appart from that, they mostly only see play in budget lists

Fetches are definitely better in 3+ decks because it finds all 3 colours while duals only have 2 colours If i could choose og duals or fetches id pick fetches and take shockes instead

25:24 Wrong! We care a lot about ancient tomb because it enables some of our key creatures and rhystic study by turn 1. City of traitors is poop though 😁

Command Tower is fetchable now with that snake from OTJ right?

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

yes it is tho i don't think that card is playable in cEDH. maybe if it would put it into play instead of in your hand :/

@aaronreed1890

Ай бұрын

I agree the card looks fun but probably not playable even in casual because it goes to the hand.

This one needs a part 2, way too many good lands weren’t talked about, like the channel lands

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

there is an episode about utility lands. this one for specific just for mana lands. "WHAT'S THE BEST UTILITY LAND IN cEDH? - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST" about 9 months old

Unfortunately you can't Vamp Tutor and Surveil it into the graveyard cause you'll just shuffle it away. When your opponents do this make sure to let them and then put your chuckle on the stack.

@Logic-cg7qy

Ай бұрын

You can, just have to stack it right

@mgarratt101

Ай бұрын

@@Logic-cg7qy I'm an idiot, crack the fetch, get the surveil, trigger on stack, hold priority and vamp tutor. You're right, don't know why I missed that.

How could you forget about Gaea's Cradle?? I agree with the test of the ranking, but forgetting that card is a crimen. Also Cavern of souls.

@dekina1198

Ай бұрын

i personally see Cavern of Souls as a utility land, not just mana. it's good if you play with some sort of tribal, like winota would but appart from that, there are not many decks that play it. maybe in tivit or atraxa to not get your big mana payoff countered. but i see it in no other decks. i agree about gaea's cradle tho