Extra stuff because I can't fit it on the video: Sage Killer ability only gives additional effect when fighting Sage enemy, but it doesn't add Sage to anti-typing ability (like Behemoth Slayer and Colossus Slayer). Socrates gets most benefit only against Sage/Angel but no other Sage enemy Edit: Socrates and his summon spirit are considered as separate entity. So the spirit doesn't inherit Sage Killer ability a.k.a. inflict worse Weaken effect against Sage enemy

@Tagle5

6 ай бұрын

so for example, if socrates is fighting a red/sage enemy, the debuff nullify and debuff resist don't trigger?

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

@@Tagle5 it still triggers, but his freeze doesn't affect them

@Tagle5

6 ай бұрын

@@SilumanTomcatReborn oke

@chillfacenoob

6 ай бұрын

Will summon use up unit max amount in a stage then?

@maiincorrect240

6 ай бұрын

@@SilumanTomcatRebornplease siluman when is izanagi review😭😭🙏🙏

Wouldve made it to the end of earthshaker, clearly a 10/10 unit

@hermosillotramita480

6 ай бұрын

Truly

@JokuIhmTyyppi

6 ай бұрын

Papaluga better

@kubo7553

6 ай бұрын

@@JokuIhmTyyppi neko arc smoking some weed is the realest thing I've seen in a battle cat's video's comment section

Can't wait for him to get a true form that fixes all of his problems in 5 years.

@philliboi123

6 ай бұрын

Nah ATP we will just have to wait like a couple of months to see it

Weird how a philosophical legend is worse than a cat with a monke

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

reject humanity, return to monke

@exlord699

6 ай бұрын

@@SilumanTomcatRebornliterally in this context

@aeizn1012

6 ай бұрын

True form might make him better if it gives more range

@A_Commenter_

6 ай бұрын

Idk man he is a very skinny, frail old man, and not bulky like an oversized ape

@Souliiiii

6 ай бұрын

@@aeizn1012 I hope its True Form gives it similar treatment to a unit like Naala, making something powerful and versatile out of something rather mediocre. Of course, that's in the future, and they'll be guaranteed to cost a few Behemoth Gems, but maybe dreams come true.

Socrates cat: Tell me, Catyphro, what is the essence of a truly pious battle cat? Euthyphro: Piety, O Socrates, is sending forth our furry warriors with righteous zeal to conquer the enemies of the Cat clan, be they dog invaders or bear marauders! Socrates cat: But, Catyphro, is it the act of conquering alone that makes them pious? Do the gods of the Almighties not care about the strategy, the catnip morality, and the righteous gatcha rolling? Euthyphro: Indeed, Socrates, piety is also about the honorable tactics, the moral catnip usage, and the gatcha that aligns with the divine feline principles. Socrates cat: So, if a battle cat rolls without a guaranteed Uber, is it still pious? Euthyphro: Nay, Socrates, for piety is not merely in the rolling but in the rolling that reflects the noble essence of the Cat God!

@malikhanoo6915

6 ай бұрын

i forgor

@johndanielbeladas8949

5 ай бұрын

what is this masterpiece i just read

@The_Andromeda_Galaxy

5 ай бұрын

bro woke up and accidentally decided to start writing fucking peak

Another victim of "outclassed by sanzo" syndrome

Why Socrates looks like someone who would dropkick me while screaming *”PREPARE THYSELF”* ?

@evanyoung6314

6 ай бұрын

THY END IS NOW

@IINautilusII

6 ай бұрын

JUDGEMENT

@Mr.Chinazo

6 ай бұрын

CRUSH

@AhmedAhmed-ii4pe

6 ай бұрын

WEAK

@averagerobloxfan7879

6 ай бұрын

AGH! (reverberating) Forgive me my children. For I have failed to bring you salvation, from this cold, dark, world.

This guy makes me wonder what angel sage we're about to get to need him soon

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

it moves fast, attacks fast, and spits acid

@Whatislovebabydontheartmedonth

6 ай бұрын

​​@@SilumanTomcatReborn 30k attack and 200k hp is a spammeable enemy)

@zepplinkiwigamer8217

6 ай бұрын

​@@SilumanTomcatReborn Lucat VI reference!!!!

@dinoaurus1

6 ай бұрын

​@@Whatislovebabydontheartmedonththat could actually be a decently balanced enemy

@takeda6516

6 ай бұрын

@@SilumanTomcatRebornis it a spammable advent tho?

I dare say that this unit is outclassed by sanzo jokes aside, I feel like this unit and future spirit spawners in general wouldve been more unique if there was a secondary cooldown instead of it being a single use ability.

Sweet new special legend unit *finishes vid* Sweet can't wait for his true form so he's usable

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

just need to wait 4 years. it's easy.

@Um_Kaye

6 ай бұрын

cant wait for 20 yellow behemoth/sage gem true form just so he can get 1 more second to his freeze and nothing else

@Zaido4211

6 ай бұрын

​@@Um_KayeEvery Legend gets better in True Form ( Except Valkyrie)

@LordOfPowercreep

6 ай бұрын

​@@Zaido4211she does... just very little

The first ZL unit we get is basically a souped up Mecha Bun with a weak debuff and the inability to be stacked. Off to a great start, I see :v

@takeda6516

6 ай бұрын

At least Mecha Bun can be used on 4 star SOL This guy is just pathetic

@dinoaurus1

6 ай бұрын

​​@@takeda6516i could see him having an use on like 3 crown palcaccio waters where juliet cant reliably get an attack off. Sanzo still outclasses even in that stage though Update: its dogshit on palcaccio waters dont even try The closest i got to beating it was getting extremely lucky with everything and killing the base before the enemies could push. Still didnt win Additional note: i was trying to do it with 4 star restriction so it could work with something like icat to stop the bore

@takeda6516

6 ай бұрын

@@dinoaurus1 yeah but you can just dumpster the stage with Cameraman

@dinoaurus1

6 ай бұрын

@@takeda6516 no you cant have you seen the monster that stage is?

@dinoaurus1

6 ай бұрын

@@takeda6516 To give you some extra context, the enemies in that stage kill boulders with ease

The best thing about Socrates is that from him we cam determine that Sage Slayer isn't as potent as Behemoth Slayer, potentially meaning that Sages won't be as obnoxiously overwhelming as Behemoths. Course, there's always the chance that they're going to be just as bad as Behemoths with less power to swing against them, but I like to keep at least a bit of optimism

So the Main and probably only reason to bring this guy as like a 100% frontline Weaken worth 4350¢... could see him useful as like a backup help, as in if the Enemies are pushing, you summon him, he rushes to frontline and Summons the Weaken to help your side temporarily (like a quick distraction) The 100% Dodge of the Spirit also sounds useful, like how rock and doron are a temporary Wall. We'll just have to test him a bit more...

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

for temporary help, we already have cat god who is cheaper to summon and can be used more than once. kinda hard to find good justification for socrates.

@krokokoko9735

6 ай бұрын

@@SilumanTomcatReborn I could see situations, where Weaken would be a better distraction that Knockback. Cat God is also a lot more fragile and needs a short stage to work well (with that bringing it's own problem of enemies needing to push only a little to kill you), while Socrates could work on longer Stages (with his Speed) and doesn't need the base to work. Your Point does still stand, as he has to die for his usefulness to be usable again and Cat God being cheaper and (sometimes) longer living than Socrates. It mostly boils down to the stage and the wanted effect: Want to Weaken some strong Boss on a long Stage for a bit? Bring Socrates; Want to Knockback all Enemies on a short Stage? Bring Cat God (the Golden).

@Its_Kirby09

6 ай бұрын

Cat god being extremely useful in some situation is pretty rare actually​@@SilumanTomcatReborn

the summon seems to unironically stunt this dude’s performance

I'm sorry mecha bunbun i be so rough with you

Like most legend units pre true form he is pretty dog water (ex.dogumaru,mina ect) lets just hope that his true form makes him a great unit

@thomasyes.

6 ай бұрын

In like, 4 years

@MAJJASTAK

6 ай бұрын

eh, atleast SOME of them were usable when they first released. I'm pretty sure sniper units as a whole were UNHEARD of when Mina first dropped (although maybe not idr when Aphrodite first released but she's an uber. But yeah purely as sniper, if you don't mind her being an uber, yeah Mina was shit even back then) however i could be wrong, the state of the game was SO different long ago bruh. Like, the concept of the lil cats being usable anywhere outside of 4* SoL (given you didn't have collab alternatives already or just used the true forms of the 4* meatshield and dps goats) was ridiculous to think about

@applesyrupgaming

6 ай бұрын

​@@MAJJASTAKthats because talents for some like lkd

@domin8or029

6 ай бұрын

While that is true, at least they had some reasonable use. Mina was a sniper, which was decently uncommon at the time, so she had that. Dogumaru was a Traitless Tank, which was nearly unheard of at the time, so even though he wasn’t great, the fact that he had a unique niche saved him. Socrates doesn’t really have any of that. His ability is similar in style to Sanzo and Juliet, but is much worse than them due to things that Siluman Mentioned. His niche style is not new, and gets outmatched. Recipe for disaster.

@acone2017

6 ай бұрын

we are getting eos before that

When Siluman need other stage because Socrates clean up all in just 2s

he’s thinking why Ponos made shadow boxer k a thing

I think made his angel freeze a little inconsistent so that when they add angel sage enemies, he's the most consistent option you have. Edit, I paused and made this comment literally the line before you said basically the same thing, lol.

One potential use for the spirit that 7 mentioned in their video is that it can be used for base cheesing. The spirit has higher range than Socrates, isn’t affected by boss shockwave, immune to all damage and debuffs, and the attack is a bit delayed, which makes it possible to snipe the enemy base at 1hp or low health. Requires setup and isn’t super practical, but it’s a niche that no other units can fill in so far (next update will bring a summon Uber that is way better in general usage and easier to use on cheese).

I feel like Socrates suffered most from being the poster child of the summon ability

The guy that said first is not safe in his own home anymore

Outclassed by Sanzo.

Maybe if Socrates spent his ass in the gym aside instead of just thinking he would have been meta

I wonder what they would do in his true form… we just got him so we aint getting his true form for a while but its food for thought

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

better procs rate would be nice

Cool vid, I have no idea why I'm watching it tho as i haven't even reached Uncanny Legends yet.

I think that decreasing the cost and cool-down of this unit could place it as a decent rusher support along the lines of Doron. The frequent attack rate + LD ability makes it a decent peon clearer, and the spirit’s weaken can let units such as Bahamut and IDI rebound more and live longer. He’d probably need a few more changes before being a really good legend unit, but I think this is a good start. (And if Ponos were brave they could give him freeze vs every trait)

Someone said that the summon costing money was a glitch, and apparently PONOS confirmed it. Hopefully he'll be better after they patch that :D

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

i tested him after the patch

This thing is about as strong as the actual Socrates

Failbuster finally Not the worst legend

I can't wait to see how gimmicky summons will get, especially if they get their own animations.

I say tf should give him more range from 250~300 and 100% chances to freeze so it could be better anti angel cc and maybe cost down since hes cost is pretty expensive

@dinoaurus1

6 ай бұрын

I feel like a guaranteed permafreeze would be a bit too strong

@Its_Kirby09

6 ай бұрын

@@dinoaurus1 well at least it has a better field control with his omni and if there a new sage enemy tht is using toxic he should maybe get toxic immune

POV: you left the game for too long and now you're highly confused of what's going on

Love the touhou music in your videos

Can't wait for Ponos to start using summon spirit ability to make units weaker (like multi hit)

@dinoaurus1

6 ай бұрын

That makes me think about a spammable summoner unit, could be interesting Boulder tf gets summon ability (real)

@LordOfPowercreep

6 ай бұрын

​@@dinoaurus1curse for one second

@TaseenAlim

6 ай бұрын

@@dinoaurus1 i think slime tf would fit the summon ability more then boulder

At least he's still better than Fillibuster

Will his true form restore his face or will it be replaced by a cat :3

Freeze against only angel is such a weirdly specific ability for a legend unit to have.

I can't wait for the next update ponos add a Courier like Unit that completely destroys sages and the difficulty of the second half of ZL based on 200% sage dogs spam

He may not be useful at the moment, but he has possibly my favourite design in battle cats. Can't wait to get him in 4 years when I catch up to ZL

@anthonytaylor7715

6 ай бұрын

Zl isn't that bad, I finished Roo yesterday and in the same day caught up to ZL

I guess we should wait for the future until Socrates becomes useful.

I wonder if it's gonna be an angel/sage with curse. Bc that's the only real advantage I could see him having over the other standard anti-angels we have. And having built in curse-resist for sages would be big since he has fast attack rate.

@parnellomello

6 ай бұрын

Definitely, he’ll actually have a use as other normal freezers won’t be able to do enough with the sage debuff resist passive.

So is it consensus that summon is a trash ability or what? It’s hyper limiting for something that can be very situational, it’d only be good on kamikaze rush down units and units with super long cooldowns

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

it depends on the summoner and their spirit. summon on socrates looks suck because he is suck. it gets much better later on izanagi (new FEST)

@brickphone8069

6 ай бұрын

@@SilumanTomcatReborn Looking forward to your video on that then, I’d still question if it’s worth only being able to have one Izanagi at a time though

Great unit animation by ponos

at least he looks cool

Finally I can use him for my anti Angel lineup

Hello! Here around 30 sec after the video was psted!

Eh better than Filibuster. Also I think it's pretty fixeable and TF will grant him use once we finish ZL.

@Only4two100bucks

6 ай бұрын

It's gonna take him at least 3 years to become viable again 💀

@TaseenAlim

6 ай бұрын

@@Only4two100bucks it took almost 5 years for UL to finish so it going to be almost 5 years for ZL to finish aswell

Bro think he is the thinker

Archemides cat, at ZL chapter 18 100% guaranteed

El bun bun mecánico: siuuuuuuuuuuuu

Just wait for them to make enemy with the summon ability and make it difficult as hell lol. Then we have this guy with the summon ability

showcasing socrates effectiveness on No Plan A is hilarious, like is bro a time traveler or smth?

Hes still better than filibuster

It seems interesting the way Ponos built Socrates, probably to avoid making the new ability be overpowered and to get an understanding of how it would effect the game first. Also I wonder what the next legend units will be, having a theme of Philosiphers might be interesting.

@yeepicowo3461

6 ай бұрын

I'd like it to be famous historical figures

outclassed by sanzo jeeez

ngl these testings rubs me the wrong way. I was expecting a lot more discussion about the weaken aspect but you basically barely touched on it at all. Like I know him as a unit isn't amazing but 8s weaken sounds amazing as a rusher support on advent stages and such but you completely glossed over it it feels. Unfortunately I can't test him myself yet so I was hoping to see way more footages of his summon but ultimately you kinda just, didn't say anything about it. It feels like you're treating a support unit as a solo carry unit which is just weird, like yeah of course a support unit isnt gonna handle some strong angel rush stages when you're not bringing any damager. Idk I'm not convinced by these testings, these feels like you're trying to make him a unit that he is not.

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

1. My intention never treats him as solo carry CC unit. I always thought he is like a busted version of Juliet Cat. You build the foundation using Sanzo or something alike while you later use Socrates as finishing touch. But it doesn't work because of his low procs rate and low range. On Holy Refugee footage, I already protect him with proper meatshield + thick load of Sanzo and he still dies multiple times. 2. In theory, yes. But I can't find stage where you realistically want to bring Socrates for his summon spirit. It's either you already have better counter (ex: Nalaa vs Relic boss) or his cost is too much for his purpose. The closest one I got is Birth of True Man but his spirit doesn't pierce enemy base so it's all vain

@LucasIVYT

6 ай бұрын

@@SilumanTomcatReborn 1 i think bringing it to holy refuge was really weird ngl. You already have sanzo you don't need him for anything else when the enemy are just boraphims. I'd like to see him more for rushing sleipnirs and doing no-meatshield winged pigge strats or st dober. Nobody cares about boraphim. And again he's still a support so you'd still need a damager. Freeze's main strength is allowing low ranged high damage rusher to works and you didn't bring those at all. 2 what about like relic b's profa, dogumaru, tower bosses (especially relic yulala), wicked cats, ibirujo, camelle variants? I doubt he'll work in all but i'd like to see *some* footages of those yknow? Those kinds of testings are what i'm looking forward to seeing, not his freeze angel capabilities but as a support for ABaha and Idi and such. Extra disclaimer i really don't think this unit is amazing definitely not but there's some interesting aspects that i'd like to see that you just completely do not cover. I just wanna see how he works as a rusher support. And I get that you can't cover some advents or towers because they're time-gated but still.

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

@@LucasIVYT 1. Socrates already struggles at inflicting Freeze on 100% Slephnir, I doubt he can do more on high-end Slephnir. Socrates on St. Doberman is basically Juliet. Although I have never considered about no-meatshield W-Piggie. 2. Naala exists for Dogumaru, Deviljho is immune to Weaken, a lot of Malevolent Cats are not on schedule (and even then, then only Malevolent enemy that Socrates works best is M-Flying), same thing with Relic Bee ( I could wait few days to get the stage, but fuck this guy), not sure I can find stage where I can rushdown Camelle tho

@LucasIVYT

6 ай бұрын

​@@SilumanTomcatRebornYeah ok maybe not ibirujo but i think the rest is worth testing over the stages you pick for this video (also why not the other wicked cats like dragon or sth?)

@SilumanTomcatReborn

6 ай бұрын

@@LucasIVYT I think the dragon is just really weak that I don't see them as threat lol (they also have Shield too). I guess you can use Socrates to kill-rush the first dragon to reduce Backliner DMG during rush hour. Or to help taking down Master A later.

Imagine being worse than catophone..... Looks over to sanzo

He’s probably built to counter an upcoming sage enemy. That’s my guess.

The new summon spirit has 100% invincibility and high AP so we can probably abuse that

@Lazermachi999

6 ай бұрын

its basically iron wall

@rz6162

6 ай бұрын

can only be used once per Socrates 😔

I think they should let us use the spirit ability more than once to compensate the lack of stackability on units that can summon them

Recently lost my battle cats account, was on zl, i hope when ponos comes back on the 4th i get my account back

@CorndogGaming

6 ай бұрын

I feel you I have lost my battlecats account 2 times. I luckily got it back both times thanks to ponos support. As long as you have your qr code you should be ok. Best of luck getting yours back!

Question, you said socrates cat will weaken the enemy boss by half? I don't understand when its a 100% weaken.

@bagS-pm7nj

6 ай бұрын

100% chance to weaken by half

@Galaxyhoppah

6 ай бұрын

@@bagS-pm7nj ahhh I must have missed that part lol

Wow 250 range, 6k dps, and 90k health. Those are some super garbage stats for a ZL unit

When lasvoss talent review

We need that 15% less damage from angels

When lasvoss talents review

OMG MINOS PRIME IN BATTLE CATS

bet next update there'll be ubers with summon talent

@mr.jitterspam9552

6 ай бұрын

We have a legend rare (uberfest) who can do that

Still more fun to use than MetaFailbuster

Well he may be low tier battle wise, but he's top tier on my "most disturbing units" list... I mean seriously, why does he look so eldritch???

Litterally just give him a range boost please. 250 is suicidal melee range. Increase it to like 320 range, and increase Omni to ~450

all of that thinking just to be mid (at least he looks like he can do good against Goku)

Worse than Fail-buster?

bro u not the thinker 💀💀

Dude, i swear i thought this was a fanmade unit, he looks... Really strange for some reason xd

Ugh, i wanted another ururun

@Azmie11

6 ай бұрын

Uruwun was 1st Sol boss Urs was 2nd UL boss thus the third one will be 3rd ZL boss

@averageplayer6495

6 ай бұрын

@@Azmie1120% slow/freeze all traits except one that I forgot

@Azmie11

6 ай бұрын

@@averageplayer6495 traitless?

@averageplayer6495

6 ай бұрын

@@Azmie11 metal 💀

0:48 usual

Ho-ho

i was expecting summon ability to be like yaba yaba from kitaro... well, guess we must wait for ponos to add that to an enemy. also I'm more upset over socrates' attack than his stats, his animations are very dull compared to the other legends

I have a feeling you didnt playtest catcrates much except for the background footage, if you actually properly used him more than thrice you would have realised that he has a niche no other unit can reliably serve. His huge omnistrike and quick attack frequency allow him to be an extremely reliable peon clearer, not to mention he utterly annihlates mini Angelic cyclone and is currently one of the only no gacha counters to saint dober, which hes good even when juliet exists. And hes good outside his target trait too due to his quick omni attacks being able to reliably counter rebound enemies or Best of all, most black peons. You fail to recognize his insane generalist potential as a sniper, which i actually prefer using him over nalaa in many stages. And the spirit summon, though it seems weak, isnt actually that bad because soractes doesnt survive that long usually, so only being able to have one isnt a downside. The spirit summon is kind of a nuke on the entire front and backline that can also give you alot of Time to push or get you out of a bad situation. This was a terrible ranking overall that also destroyed this units reputation for pretty much no reason.

@SilumanTomcatReborn

Ай бұрын

No, lol. I actually spent the whole week playing with him. I even consider multiple possibilities like using him together with Sanzo/Juliet for freeze quality or trying him against big range enemy like slephnir etc. But he somehow always ends up being a liability. I sound bitter here because I am so pissed off with him. I also consider his Summon potency. It's also good for rushdown strategy. But to use him you also need to pay 4500. If you use him together with Bahamut, that's 9000 money consumed for maybe idk 1-2 extra hits. I can't really think good situation that can justify that. Although I admit that I never look deeper on his generalist value. Maybe because I mostly test him against Angel so his rapid DMG doesn't look too good. I might look out about that later.

@midtisel4222

Ай бұрын

@@SilumanTomcatReborn ah, i see. Soractes was not meant to be a pure anti Angel and in generalidt terms, he now has a role no other unit can fullfill properly. (i am not gonna mention the 4 stars and no gacha value on him). Ive been using this unit extremely often for around 3-4 months now. Have a good day

Well, at least he counters Gokurakko, so thats already good for me 🤷‍♂️

@Azmie11

6 ай бұрын

Level 50 mushroom+ ramen can already deal with that

@Azmie11

6 ай бұрын

@@lianneroban9906 mushroom is cheap and pretty spammable, not that hard to deal with. Maybe he's annoying in ZL, but I haven't progress much in it, only faced it in ashvini desert

@averageplayer6495

6 ай бұрын

@@lianneroban9906pretty sure mushroom and ramen can still delete angel otter

4:51 I'm sorry, but no. Filibuster is hard to beat... or... not to beat? As good as this guy isn't, at least he does *SOMETHING.*

No earthshaker? 😢

Εύ ζήν ahh cat

Kinda looks like minos prime

I can’t begin to imagine how cancerous the sages will be on 3 star magnification😭

@unfamousinfamous

6 ай бұрын

Primitive Souls 2.0

@New_Scout

6 ай бұрын

@@unfamousinfamous primitve souls 3star magnification is about +80% for all the enemies... if the sage has that, it'll make him have 7.2 million hp and 43k attack. I don't think it would be possible to kill something like that without kai or windy or a hard sage counter that may be added in the future

@LordOfPowercreep

6 ай бұрын

7M hp...

@Unclearrain

6 ай бұрын

@@New_ScoutI’d just kill myself at that point bc wtf

Bros like: why cats? Why are some of these cats not cats? Why tf is metal doge so damn annoying?

Mattpat

New WORST Legend? Big NO, that title still being for Failbuster

Bro thinks he's the thinker 💀💀💀

When i first saw the enemy version i already disliked it because of his animation, its so static and not interesting (as well as its design) Watching this video made me hate this unit even mor lol. How can you screw an endgame unit so much?? Its even worse when you consider UL had literally no bad legends at all

He is decent cc special legend wdym how da heck he is new worst

90Th like! :D

First

@Toad_Man

6 ай бұрын

Nobody cares