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thank you! your examples make it way easier for me to understand the concepts!

thank you so much for explaining it so well!

Thank you, great explanations

Thank u so much. Watching from USA Unahan sa Antipas

thank you, this is the first video that makes sense!

Veryyyy clear Thanks

Wonderful👍

Thanku sir😻

Love your example using the map and the crossing symbol (displaying the iconic, indexical, and symbolic elements!). I don't know if every word is a symbol. 1. Some words might have iconic elements, e.g. "buzz" or other forms of onomatopoeia 2. What do you think about proper names? They seem like they would be either indexical or symbolic. On the one hand, they seem to be indexical since they relate to their objects by blindly pointing at the things they name (they don't describe the thing and we tend to be baptized with them, e.g. where a name is put in a causal connection with a thing). On the other hand, they seem to be symbolic. In the past I've taken them to be a kind of indexical legisign. Overall, greatly enjoyed your video!

@PhiloSign

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment! You are completely right! I am not sure about proper names, but I guess indexical legisign is right. However, the demarcation between different elements or signs is never crystal clear. I think that too pedantic categorization is not the way to go. As I want to show in these videos is that the exact same thing, can simultaneously be many different signs depending on out point of view or attitude.

@pyb.5672

11 ай бұрын

Totally agree with onomatopoeia having iconic elements. In fact, many words evoke feelings that have nothing to do with their semantic meaning. If one reads a book in which the word "desert" appears and the reader has a sweet tooth, the iconic misrepresentation could lead to the reader referring to the object "dessert" in his mind, and the action of that thought lead him to feel very different about the sentence being read. This is the action of the sign "icon" in all its power to direct the attention of the mind. This shows how signs can have dual modalities (being an icon and a symbol). Biological systems can juggle cross-modal systems of representation effortlessly, which is why animals seem to be capable of feats that dumbfound AI researchers, whose system can only process unimodal symbolic representation. I would oppose to the idea of proper names being indexes though. Symbolic signs are essentially defined by being formulated via convention between the meaning-maker and meaning-receiver. It seems like this is exactly the nature of what proper names are stated from. If you ascribe indexes to signs that "blindly points to something else", then everything becomes an index since technically, there is nothing in the world that humans can perceive that isn't an internal representation rendered from electrical signals. This would denature the distinction between the 3 types of sign under that purview. But that's just my view! It's awesome to see 2 excellent channels interact with each other. Keep up the great work!

I thought Charles Peirce stated that, "a symbol ... fulfils its function regardless of any similarity or analogy with its object and equally regardless of any factual connection therein." - This would seem to indicate a separation of a symbol from an index or icon? right? but you seem to indicate that icons and indexes are contained in symbols? -- maybe you can clear some of it up for me. Thank-you.

Thank you so much. Can we see you work through intersections of semiotics and autopoiesis??

@PhiloSign

3 жыл бұрын

I guess so! In my new series "Musing Sense" I approach semiotics (or more generally the semiotic world view) through diagrams and systems theory. There I cover also autopoietic systems, although maybe not in a super explicit manner. Here is the series: kzread.info/head/PL3Ly018tx3-TurC8YvcCUZ2vEgJvmMzoE

Incredible series. I use it in classes. Is the pdf of Peirciean Model for Music and Sound available? The link no longer works

@PhiloSign

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much! Yes it is. The link should be working now!

@paulhanson1137

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhiloSign Thank you so much. Can we see you work through intersections of semiotics and autopoiesis??

Is there a vid for the 3rd correlate?

@PhiloSign

4 жыл бұрын

I'm in the process of making it currently. I upload it as soon as possible! :)

1.) a wave of the hand (for goodbye) 2.) a picture of a cigarette with a red circle around it and a diagonal slash through it 3.) a road map 4.) a stop sign 5.) the footprints of an animal in the mud Plese help me answer this

@PhiloSign

3 жыл бұрын

Let's try this one! These are not the "correct" answers. It is more like a musement. In terms of the 2. correlate: 1) Symbolic aspect is the conventionality of this sign. We have a habit of waving hands when we say goodbye. Indexical aspect is the hands relation between the waving individuals. It is the "here and nowness" of the waving. I am waving to YOU, here and now. Iconical aspect is the embodiment of the sign in the individual hand. Think of emojis for example. 2) Symbolic aspect is the conventional meaning of the red circle and slash over the cigarette. It is a habitual representation of a smoking ban. Something that we must learn. Indexical aspect is the relation between the sign and the surrounding environment. You shouldn't smoke HERE. Iconical aspect is the similarity between the picture of the cigarette and the real cigarette. 3) Symbolic aspect is the conventional colors and symbols that represent different things (roads, forest, fields, cafes, hotels etc.) Indexical aspect is the relation between the map and the area the map is representing. The map represents THIS place. Iconical aspect is the similarity between the map and the real environment. The similarity between the "image" in the map and how the area looks from space. 4) Symbolic aspect is the conventionality of the stop sign. We have to learn what the sign means and the habit of stopping when interpreting the stio sign. Indexical aspect is the fact that the stop sign signifies stopping at THIS particular place. Not there but HERE I have to stop. Iconical aspect is the embodiment of certain qualities (red color and the form of the shape) that are appropriate for the stop sign. 5) This is very much an indexical sign. It has a material relation to the animal that produced it. The iconical aspect is the embodiment of some form. This embodiment allows us to infer what animal produced this sign (bird, dog, bear etc.) Hope this helps! :)

@trusfrated3337

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhiloSign thank you so much

@ManashDesign

2 жыл бұрын

Apple logo

I am wondering where sign language falls? Is it under symbols too?

@LSDOvideos

3 жыл бұрын

It would fall under symbols yeah that being said like a lot of signs hand gestures in sign language can be more than just a symbol, index or icon. If a hand gesture mimics the motion or shape of what it's supposed to represent it is also partially an icon.

@PhiloSign

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Aurelius, you are absolutely right! It is important to understand, that the point in all of this is not to simply label things as either icons, indexes or symbols. Signs are always "dirty" and often manifests all of the aspects above at the same time, as Aurelius also pointed out. Rather than labeling signs as either this or that, it is more helpful to think about what is dominant in some sign. Is it the qualitative aspects that are important (painting), is it the indexical aspects (weather vane) or the symbolic aspects (sign language)? Also, remember that indexes necessarily involve icons and symbols necessarily involve both icons and indexes. Hope this helps!

plato believes that we are borne in blank slide ,how