Providing the Munro crew with an example of their latest product for a public critique shows that the people at Rivian are proud of their work and confident in the quality of their product.

While not as complex as an ICE, this power train has significant engineering. Excellent explanation by Scott.

@golfish8589

10 ай бұрын

It is a basic open differential. No locking

I was getting bored while on the beach, what's better than a new motor teardown? Thank you guys!

@djwarren5081

10 ай бұрын

I'm supposed to be preparing our evening meal right now. It can wait till the video ends 😊

Wow! Scott's description of the Rivian motor/differential/inverter is the most complete and logical of all your drive train analysis. It makes so much more sense when explained as an integrated package. Now, can we see a similar analysis of the Ioniq 5's motor teardown of 4 months ago? Thanks in advance!

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Ioniq 5 motor video is coming soon! 👀

Scott, very well done! 👏👏👏 Easy to follow and understand, excellent presentation!

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

One of the most interesting and clear deep dive's I have seen to date. Great job!

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching!

@djwarren5081

10 ай бұрын

Agreed. I have the attention of a gnat, and still managed to watch the whole episode. Amazing.

The solenoid valve on the plate cooler allows them to more rapidly bring rotor oil up to temp. Thereby achieving optimal operating temp/viscosity in cold weather startup environments.

@drury2d8

10 ай бұрын

98% to 98.05% thermal efficiency

@brianb-p6586

10 ай бұрын

And the valve would presumably be a bypass (of coolant or oil past the heat exchanger), rather than blocking flow as mentioned in the video.

@markplott4820

10 ай бұрын

I think high Sodium concentrate , has Greater potential for heat wicking.

@joeclutchless1944

10 ай бұрын

You beat me to that comment. Some ICEcars use that valve too.

Appearances can be deceptive. He may look like a member of a 70's Rock Band, but his presentation skills are second to none. Brilliant.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

🤘🏼

Of all the Munro video presentations this must be one of the very best. Every clear explanation was then represented with equal clarity by the perfect visuals. It had a relaxed pace and didn't appear scripted in any way ... but surely it must have been ... you can't be that good without careful planning! The editing was kept to a minimum and was almost invisible (as it should be). This was a fascinating dive into the technical features of the Enduro motor/drive unit. 10/10.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

We never script our videos.

@MrAdopado

10 ай бұрын

@@MunroLive Rather than "scripted" maybe a pre-planned sequence? If this was straight off the cuff I am even more impressed! Great presentation.

Less is more. That's what Sandy keeps saying. Glad to see Scott in the mix. Thanks Rivian for trying. "RiviVan" coming?

Thanks Scott for the clear and concise overview of the drive unit. It is great to see some pretty savvy engineering coming out of a young company, Rivian.

@golfish8589

10 ай бұрын

But the motor has a basic open differential. Not locking. :(

@wtmayhew

10 ай бұрын

@@golfish8589 That is so they can get current owners to buy one with a locker next year. 🙂

Thank you Scott. What a fascinating deep dive into the Rivian motor improvements.

Those who might not know, we're seeing an incredible display. Engineering, knowledge, human ingenuity - sure. But those pieces that Scott is showing us around, are ALL HEAVY AF. Dense metal parts. Scott is strong. Like GOAT strong. I'm amazed, and frankly super-impressed. Brains and brawn.

You give out so much info that I had to watch the video twice to understand most of it. Not all but most. Very informative and interesting. Thank you.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@brianb-p6586

10 ай бұрын

Since I'm already familiar with the technology it's easier for me - this is so clear that I watched at 1.75 X without difficulty. 👍

Nice to see Rivian offering more sane HP levels with this setup. We've lost focus lately sacrificing efficiency on the 0-60 Altar which is part of whats driving the need for higher kWh batteries. A more efficient unit with low enough power requirements to get equal or better range from lower kWh batteries would be a refreshing change. Lower HP means lower wattage requirements, less waste heat, lower cooling requirements, less time to charge and lower cost per mile. At more reasonable HP levels will a liquid cooled motor really be needed? If not then all that complexity/weight/cost can go away. When I started driving anything less than 9 seconds 0-60 was sports car territory and not really needed for merging on the highway, getting to work or for a grocery run or in other words your daily driver. Even the original Nissan Leaf is higher performance than most muscle cars from back in the day and more than is really needed. When I drive an EV I want to see 5 Miles per kWh or better and not this downward spiral to 3 or less. Best!

Glad to see that the Munro company is not just a Tesla fanboy company. Professional discussion of Rivian tech.

Wow, that was a phenomenal presentation. Clear, concise, language a non-engineer can understand. Organizing your thoughts into an on-camera public speech on a highly technical subject is NOT easy! Congratulations, Scott.

Great explanation. From the first moment you appeared on this channel I knew you were an asset for the community.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Much appreciated!

Great detailed description of the entire breakdown! Very well done! Keep these great videos coming.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thanks, will do!

Fantastic video. You're one of the top presenters in the stable! Can you please do an episode that does a side by side comparison of the latest drive units you have from Rivian, Tesla, Lucid, Ford, and the rest?

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Great suggestion!

Fantastic breakdown and explanation, thank you for walking us through this!

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

My pleasure!

Holy... I bet you're next in line for shotgun at ML. You're nailing all your presentations and your energy is perfect. You know your stuff and it shows. Congratulations and keep these gems coming.

Wow!!! What a mind-blowing presentation. A stunning exhibition of competent consummate clarity, completeness, comprehensive communication. Munro's videos are great but this one tops them all!

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Wow, thank you!

Nice description of the new dual motor setup in the Rivian, Scott.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thanks 👍

Excelent presentation! Formula in which is Your work based is -Objective Truth! And main value comes from that.

Doubly Impressive! Rivian engineers are the "real deal" and did a great job. Scott is articulate, detailed, concise and has a flowing logical narrative progression, which is better than 99% of engineers and professors. Congratulations to both. Hopefully Ford and GM are talking notes, though anything they learn will take more than a decade to implement....badly. 😂

@golfish8589

10 ай бұрын

The Silverado EV Will have a locking rear differential as an option. Rivians is a open differential. Disappointing...

@shazam6274

10 ай бұрын

@@golfish8589Silverado WILL have a lot of "things"...one day...maybe...kind of. Hopefully it won't be made of "vegan metal" .

@golfish8589

10 ай бұрын

@@shazam6274 why the attitude about the Silverado EV?

@shazam6274

10 ай бұрын

@@golfish8589 There is no such thing! Whenever GM starts serial production at an established price, then we can talk about its wonderful features, or not. GM has been making BEV announcements for years with little to show for them in terms of vehicles made and sold. The only BEV they made, the Bolt, even though it was the least expensive BEV, sold poorly, even with GM losing $15,000 for each one and has been now cancelled (though resurrected on the latest press releases.). The Ford F150 Lightning, which is at least in production, and can be evaluated, is not selling well. The Silverado is so far just PR. Just wait for reality to catch up with the Hype, and then make comparisons. What if the Silverado meets all your expectations, but is $150,000 (with dealer premiums and a 2 year waiting time)?

very helpful and educational.. thank your!!

Loved the great consumer advice at the end of the video.

Great presentation skills and delivery

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thank you kindly!

Yes! Good job Scott

Brilliantly done.

Awesome video. Cheers

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

I wish Scott was my engineering professor. I would have paid attention more. LOL

Super review! Great job... *****

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Great presentation!

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thank you kindly!

Thank you, Scott! Great presentation, and you explained it in a way that a doofus non-engineer such as myself could follow it. Well done, and way to go Rivian--seems like a really effective, well thought out unit, and I am sure it will get better as time rolls on.

That was a great presentation.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Excellent presentation. Describes the death of the internal combination engine.

Munro has industry leading reputation and privides people interested in EVs, but unfamiliar with the particulars, a great deal of information about the quality and design of the products on the market. You provide an excellent service to us all!!!

That's a ferrite core common mode choke on the inverter, not a current sensor. It's an EMI filtering component for reducing common mode currents into/out of the inverter

Nicely done!

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Great presentation

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Awesome info

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Glad you think so!

thumbs up for good content and a non-sandy vid.

I like your explanations. Thx.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Glad you like them!

Great job.

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Great education thank you 🙏

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Our pleasure!

Thank you Scott. Eating this stuff up. One thought. I think we should be careful about using the term "inducing" when describing how the magnetic fields on the stator are created. Another form of the word is induction, which reminds us of an induction motor such as Tesla uses. An induction motor is an entirely different beast than this AC / permanent magnet motor out of the Rivian. All EV motors, every one of of them, every automaker, use 3-phase AC to create the magnetic field in the stator. It's all the same basic tech. The induction motor is different in that rather than than using permanent magnets in the ROTOR, they use a non-magnetized but conductive metal slug of sorts (often copper) that has an opposing magnetic field INDUCED on it from the magnetic field in the stator. This is a magnetic field inducing another magnetic field. In the stator it is an electro-magnetic field simply being created as pulses of AC current pass through the stator windings. ;>

Cool!

Scott. Gosh what a cool dude. Fantastic explanation. Thx

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

You bet!

Great video. Very clearly explained. OMG, these things are getting so complicated. I hope that one day a manufacturer will design and market an absolutely minimal electric vehicle. All I need is a means of transport. After all the greatest step is from taking the bus to driving a car. Any car that is. Something like the Cesnna 150 airplane.

Fabulous detail and presentation (as usual;)) i wonder if long tern oems will keep motor making in house as their own advantage vs. Outsourcing. Building ICE engines must be way more complex than making electric drives.

Scott u are a great presenter 👏👏👏👏👏

@MunroLive

10 ай бұрын

Glad you think so!

SCOTT GOOD JOB!

Scott for President! It's time!😉

Personally really like Scott’s presentation style. He’s very clear. Curious: Does Munro think inboard brakes make sense on these EV drive units? Seems like they could help reduce part count.

@jamesengland7461

10 ай бұрын

Also, brake maintenance would be more difficult on inboard brakes, but much less frequent, so that's OK.

@brianb-p6586

10 ай бұрын

inboard brakes reduce unsprung mass, but they also increase loads on CV joints, are even difficult to package inboard than in the wheel volume, are hard to service, and bring heat into the drive unit area. In vehicles with engines they were tried and subsequently abandoned decades ago. I doubt that less frequent service moderating the service disadvantage would tip the choice in favour of inboard.

@atomicsmith

10 ай бұрын

@@brianb-p6586 I’m not sure “abandoned” is the right word. They’re still fairly common in military vehicles around the world. Most of the downsides you mentioned are much less of an issue on EVs. The drive unit is smaller so packaging is easier, brake rotors are likely to last the life of the vehicle, CV joints are already being sized for more torque and regen loads, there is much less heat around the drive unit, etc

@brianb-p6586

10 ай бұрын

@@atomicsmith the only inboard brake wheeled military vehicle that I know of is the HMMWV, which is a 1970's design, but of course there may be many others that I just haven't come across. Were any designed in this century? Military vehicles might use inboard brakes to protect vulnerable components from threats that don't exist in the normal world. An EV drive unit is not smaller than a conventional final drive (such as at the rear of a front-engine vehicle) - in fact it is much larger. An EV drive unit also produces much more heat than a conventional final drive. The EV drive unit is only smaller and produces less heat than an engine and transaxle, so that only applies at one axle of an engine-driven vehicle. Regenerative braking is rarely capable of the torque of full effort with friction brakes.

For a long time, the tear downs on this channel could be summarized as "The engineering in Tesla's cars is mostly excellent, while the engineering in other brands of EVs is mostly mediocre". However, over time, I have noticed from the tear down videos that the quality of engineering in non-Tesla EVs seems to be improving, with this video being a good example of that. This is refreshing to see. As somebody who owns shares in Tesla, I feel confident that Tesla is still ahead. But as somebody who loves innovation and ergonomic design, I am delighted to see that some of Tesla's competitors are making impressive improvements.

Thanks for the deep dive. This was really interesting to watch. Just a curious question...are the gears made out of a carbide steel for durability?

Hello Scott, this is amazing to watch all details,you guys are always rockstars…. I am owner of R1S and watching this I have questions what is interval of this oil filter and oil change?

Great.

Scott is such a G.

Can y'all make a video comparing Tesla's 'Torque sleep mode' to a mechanical disconnect as far as cost, weight, efficiency and operation?

Backwards compatible is pretty neat! Might they be able top product this at a low enough cost to make it arractive for other (smaller) vehicles and 3rd party OEM customers? If this system happens to get all the efficiency metrics right (I'm not sure with that oil cooling?), what type of brands would do well with this drive unit? Every 800V system that can deal with less than svelte drive units?

Maybe it is too soon but I would love for Sandy's team to review what Linamar is doing with Exro's Coil Driver technology.

About the inverter, i see a future issue with the return line of the cooling set. If the o-ring fails, then the entire inverter as well as the battery might be a mess.

Which specific oil is used for cooling? Do you have the supplier spec?

Great presentation!. Couldn't they use the motor's rotors to pump oil in a fancy way, and loose the dedicated, constant running pumps?!.

Definitely well designed and thought out. Even better than Lucid I guess. Wished Rivian were doing Sedans!

@markplott4820

10 ай бұрын

Loocid is more compact DU, than RIVIAN. however , RIVIAN is more Efficient.

Regarding the different power trains, I think is more clarifying to talk about double engine or single engine axels.

I need to finalize my order and I’m tempted to go with Quad setup. Yes, it’s a bit heavier but I get a sense that it’s more overbuilt and will last longer. I’m not sure I like that Dual is immersed in oil. Tesla motors do that and they don’t last very long before needing a replacement due to cooling system issues. This adds a lot of complexity and possible failure points. Quad has no oil that goes inside. Seems to be less intricate but more lasting. Do you folks agree?

And this is the design after 5yrs or so after the EV revolution started. Can't wait to see the EV industry and their achievements in 10 years from now!

How's the oil pump powered? Is there much torque steer from those unequal lenght drive shafts? The open diff requiring Torque vectoring using brakes just decreases efficiency, burning money to go slower. Flawed, but Mitsubishi Evo's AYC at least used its energy to propel the vehicle forward not convert it into heat and brake dust. Is it worth using regen to torque vector? Is the invertor cooled by the same oil that serves the stator and rotor considering its sat on top of that system?

Hey Munro team, is there a reason why they had to channelise the coolant in that way to get it into the heat exchanger? Couldn't they just flip it 180 degrees? I guess in that way the casting could have been a little simpler, and maybe they could have used less rubber seal, so less surface for leaking.

The ring gear appears to have 66 teeth, the pinion that drive it might have 18 teeth (although 17 or 19 would be better), so the second reduction stage is about 3.67:1. The first reduction stage gears are finer and harder to count in the video images (although it looks like about 25 teeth on the motor's gear and about 88 on the driven gear, for about 3.5:1 in the first stage and about 13:1 overall), but it would be nice if the tooth counts or just the overall ratio were shared.

@boredKiwi

10 ай бұрын

Didn't they say 7:1 ? Struck me as quite numerically low for this application.

@brianb-p6586

10 ай бұрын

@@boredKiwiI didn't hear that in this video - maybe I missed it. Did you note the timestamp of that comment? I fed this video to a KZread transcript generator and the result looks reasonable... but I couldn't find any reference to gear ratio in it, by searching for key words such as "gear" and "ratio", and by skimming the text manually. Yes, 7:1 would be typical of something like a Nissan Leaf, but low for a recent design... and the gear sizes certainly look like they have much more reduction than that.

@boredKiwi

10 ай бұрын

Sorry, you're right, I confused this video with the Lucid Air teardown which I watched shortly afterwards!

@brianb-p6586

10 ай бұрын

Thanks@@boredKiwi. Lucid probably wants very high top road speed, so they can't use much reduction.

@boredKiwi

10 ай бұрын

@@brianb-p6586 plus the Lucid's diff is inside the motor rotor so the risk of imbalance at high motor RPM is increased.

Excellent review, but I'll take the 130lbs weight penalty considering it nets 170 extra HP! Agreed that for most people, who don't need a supercar, it's cheaper and better to get the dual motor, which also has more range. I still think the original launch strategy that the engineers took of going with a quad motor, without two differentials and expensive cooling systems, achieving superior HP figures with off the shelf parts, was the right move. It will be amazing to see what HP figures they can achieve with an in-house quad motor design.

How much efficiency does it bring to motor when there is these permanent magnets or in case when there is no permanent magnets or is reason for using permanent magnets could be used more easily for power generation when car uses motor braking?

Hi, thank you Can you drain and replace liquids.l?

When the motor engages that differential dog, does it rev the motor to nearly match (final drive rpm of course) the wheel speed rpm so it doesn't sit there and grind? Sorry if you mentioned this in the video. I didn't catch it obviously if you did.

@boredKiwi

10 ай бұрын

I don't recall that it was mentioned but clearly the control computer knows everything it needs to know to carry out this engagement smoothly.

🤔... the benefit I see right for off roading with the induro setup is using that same disconnect feature as a locker for the front and rear independently

Scott, is there an estimate in terms of peak power vs normal operating power between the enduro unit and the Bosh version?

How does that ring gear cog while in motion?

Will the stator oil last the lifetime of the motor or will it need to be changed every ten thousand hours or so? What SAE oil would be used? 🙂 ❤️ the channel.

@boredKiwi

10 ай бұрын

They didn't say but nearly every other EV uses a synthetic ATF.

Back to a differential, so if on wheel gets lifted up I guess the ABS just puts the brakes on of how does it limit the slip?

@brianb-p6586

10 ай бұрын

Yes, that's how brake-based traction control works in any vehicle, and with only one motor per axle brake-based is the only option for individual wheel control.

Might lighter vehicle with heavy BEV drive units benefit most from such disconnects? Bjorn Nyland the legendary BEV test KZreadr does a roll out test on his range test loop. Starts a hill descent at 90 kph, switches to neutral when the car gets below 0W drive power to keep 90kph, coasts down and sees where the speed crosses below 90kph again. Wind and road conditions vary of course, aero, tires and weight all matter, but even having tested even EQS and Model S, the best coaster thus far has been Skoda Enyaq.

I'm wondering why they decided to have the torque disconnect default to open instead of defaulting to closed. I suppose that they rev-match to engage it at speed, and you wouldn't want it to engage under failure and destroy itself.

I notice that the drivers that engage the carrier pinions have a big flat spot on the outside like a toyota differential. Under high torque loads i wonder if it creates a usable limited slip effect like toyotas get. I'm just scheming how to make them better as it looks like working another spline in there for a dif lock is going to be a chore.

I wonder if they going to update the quad motor similarly 🤔

This disconnect design would need well-matched speed to engage without tooth damage, unlike the type of disconnect used on the original unit.

Needs lockers, at least in the rear, wonder if they are scared of removing the quad motor ans off road king? The independent motors limit individual wheel torque and make crawling tough, full e-locker like the lightning would solve that and make a crawling monster with the higher adjustable suspension and great approach/departure angles on the r1s!

@sages7783

10 ай бұрын

Would be nice to see a locker somehow integrated with that diff disconnect system.

Wow..... I did not get dizziness with this vedio... Finally, you got a good cameramen. : )

5:20 😮

Looks like part of the inverter is made in Macedonia. Cool... @22:40

I was hoping for a mechanical differential lock. It would have made it better off roader than the quad Motor.

Question. What would you buy if the quads and duals are about the same price?

Scott, I am quite surprised about one aspect of this design. You stated that the rotor is living in an oil bath? As in, oil comes up to some level on the the rotor from the bottom of the case. Is that correct? That would seem to massively create resistance to the spinning of the rotor, and significantly reduce torque and power, as the rotor plows through a viscous liquid. What am I missing here??

@boredKiwi

10 ай бұрын

Most of the oil flow in internal to parts and that which is in the air will be atomised due to the windage.

What is the standard lifetime of an inverter? In solar work it is 12-15 years.

👋👍

How would you compare this system to a limited slip diff, or a electronically locking rear diff

@phateracing

10 ай бұрын

Unless I missed something, this is still an open differential. Which is a bit disappointing, because a mechanical locker would outperform the quad motor setup in low speed crawling scenarios

@golfish8589

10 ай бұрын

@@phateracing Rivian will probably add the locker to boost sales in 18 months:(

How reliable do you think the differential will be with that disconnect feature? It looks quite complicated. Do you think that the disconnect feature is one of the reasons why the warranty on the dual-motor is one year less than the quad motor?

@martinultimatevw3779

10 ай бұрын

Thought the same. That disconnect wheel looks to be worn out pretty fast. Like, how do they align those theeth without synchro rings? Looks flimsy🤔

@boredKiwi

10 ай бұрын

Electronics. The computer knows every it needs to carry out the engagement smoothly.

@korswe

10 ай бұрын

@@boredKiwi Yes but have you seen the physical mechanism that will have engage and disengage millions of time?

@boredKiwi

10 ай бұрын

Like a DSG for example?@@korswe

Sooo is there a diff lock? Or is it another regular SUV now?