I love how Aid encourages cooperation and roleplay. So far, my favorite Aid was when one of my players aided the cleric dispel a darkness field with searing light by spending a low level dispel magic. I had the assistant roll occultism (their tradition's associated skill). He crited, and the +3 from the aid pushed the searing light counteract check into success, and the took away a major adantage from the enemy they were gearing up to fight

The potential for critical failure at low level is enormous, and that's why Aid is a difficult thing to explain to a new player. Often at low level it is better to do nothing than to Aid, and almost always, some other skill that you have Training in will better apply itself to the situation than aid.

I use the DC by level table for aid actions, or use simple DC table. If you want to assist someone to hit a creature that is level 2 you would need to beat a 16, or AC - 2 (easy), which ever is lower If you want to assist someone that is doing a first aid action on trained, then the helper needs to beat 15. If the DC of the actual task is 15 (like with treat wounds) then aid DC is 13 I am reducing the DC by two since helping should be easier than doing the actual task and DC adjustment for easy task is 2

@r2roberts

2 жыл бұрын

I think I may use those DCs, or something similar in my game. Thanks a whole lot.

@coolboy9979

2 жыл бұрын

@@r2roberts Difference between my homebrew and the official rules is that players on earlier level got an easier time to help, but players later on wont get a free success/critical success later on. I am glad to help!

@lostsanityreturned

2 жыл бұрын

You are nerfing the intent of aid by doing this sadly, and really taking a nice and flexible cooperative tool out of the player toolbox. I can't imagine it feels very good fighting level + 4 creatures without utilizing aid actions to make sure important attacks / effects go off.

@michaele1373

2 жыл бұрын

​@@lostsanityreturned I wouldn't say it's nerfed so bad where it wasn't used. Our group had it scaled as well using DC by level and it was still used quite often even at level 15... However I agree I don't think the DC 20 is too broken because at higher levels almost everyone has a reaction other than aid, so using aid and losing your reaction might not be the most optimal thing to do.

@coolboy9979

2 жыл бұрын

@@lostsanityreturned aye you're right. Will use party level instead of monster level

That was great. Thanks. I'm glad you addressed how it scales with level.

I really like this Aid action. Thank you very much for this Rule Reminder! :)

@HowItsPlayed

2 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome!

Thank you for all your videos. The Pathfinder books can be tough to look through sometimes

As far as Aiding a ranged combatant you can say you're going to intimidate or demoralize or some other skill other than attack. The DM may assign the Multi Attack penalty to a third attack.

Aid is a good action, it's better it higher levels as the DC is theoretically constant (as you have mentioned). Good that you reminded that you don't have MAP when Aiding as it's on other players Turn.

This was great. Thanks

So one of things I just noticed is that Aid is a circumstance bonus...only one person can aid. D'oh I should have seen that earlier. Great video!

@lordcirth

2 жыл бұрын

But multiple people can try, improving the odds of getting a success or crit!

Good point on the option lower it. there's a DC Modifier chart for a reason. If you are low level and Aiding an ally on a DC 14 climb you yourself can easily pass because you are a big strong fight boi with Expert in Atheltics I would say the DC to Aid should be lower. Maybe as far as being the same DC as the check.

With regards to flanking instead of Aid, there's no reason you can't do both! And I might actually lower the Aid DC by 2 the same as the AC.

@franksaffen

Ай бұрын

Would that be 2 different circumstance bonuses that don't stack?

@lordcirth

Ай бұрын

@@franksaffen Flanking causes off-guard, which is -2 AC circumstance to the defender. So it doesn't need to stack with a bonus to attack.

My question is, can you actually use Aid to make an actual attack as part of your "distraction"? The rule says attack roll of a type, so I guess typically something like Shove, Trip, Grapple, etc, but can you actually attack and deal damage when taking the Aid reaction? Thanks in advance!

@kevinbarnard355

Жыл бұрын

No, you cannot. You are making an attack roll or a skill roll with Aid. You are NOT making a strike, or an athletics maneuver since you aren't taking the associated skill action.

I like very much the rule reminders, rules are so hard to understand, so Dave helps a lot. But here I have some questions. I know description of aid is very blurry, but this description is a bit too lenient. Pf 2e rules could usually be understood by reverse engineering. I think here one good point is the assisting shot feat. This fighter feat makes use a ranged attack on your turn, to give attack bonus to your friend, next attacking that creature. Sounds familiar? Yep its an upgraded aid, since you use a ranged attack. Now this clarifies a lot. 1. In aid description it says GM is to attach trait to the preparatory and the reaction, so both would be attack. Now ready action clarifies that in such a case, the reaction does have MAP! Look if aid had no MAP assisted shot had no point at all. Also logically it is strange, that you use 2 action to ready attack and you keep MAP and you clearly put a trigger which may not happen, but with aid you use a single action, and trigger is quite simple. So my understanding aid works same way as ready. The action you traded for reaction has MAP, so your reaction does have it too. AoO works differently, but first thats a hard to get feat for martial PCs (not free for all), which can be avoided, second AoO mechanics is completly differently you do not "trade in" anything. 2. This also means that for example if you aid your friend in a shove or trip attack that has MAP too, same with aiding escape. 3. Keeping MAP is logical by the way, since MAP shows that you loose focus as you have done lot more. Not logical that when you ready (with concentrate trait) and spend 2/3 of your round on it, you get MAP, but not with aid. 4. assisting shot also explains us what would be the DC for attackers aid. That is the AC. In fact extinsion curse campaign has this costar action, which works same way as aid, and clarifies that your DC is the DC of the action your friend does take. 5. So yes if you want to "disturb" an enemy who is good at defending himself then its harder to disturb too. If you want to aid your friend to tie up a wounded finger its much easier than to aid him in brain surgery. So as rules say, easy task are easy to aid, hard tasks are hard to aid. To summerize aid is useful, but I think if you play by RAW, you would not get to this automatic crit successes. Otherwise as I said assisting shot (a hard to get martial feat!) is nonsense, and aid is way outbalanced. But its true, rules are blurry and just hint to what is written above. Anyway just using plain DC 20 does seems to be nonsense. GM should lower but also increase it. Try to distract a goblin or a gold dragon with your aid, well...

@kevinbarnard355

Жыл бұрын

You are misunderstanding a fundamental part of Aid, the difference between "make an attack/skill roll" and "make a strike". When assisting with an Aid Action, you do NOT strike the enemy, you do NO damage, nor do you apply any effects a strike/shove, etc normally would have. Assisting shot allows you to make a STRIKE which deals damage while also setting up an ally. Aid does not, which is why it doesn't have the Attack trait or a MAP.

@barneyd598

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinbarnard355 thx for clarifying assisting shot! so no MAP since its not really an attack. However I still think DC is the AC., since it should be same DC as the action you would like to help.

Are there any items that help with aid checks.

Can Assurance be used to Aid?

@kevinbarnard355

Жыл бұрын

I believe the official answer is no. Assurance forgoes the skill check and Aid requires you to attempt a skill check. It's probably a reasonable houserule though.

I'd consider removing the critical failure penalty, at least when rolling a 1. Then aid at low levels becomes a "why not?".

@guille787

2 жыл бұрын

If there is no risk at all, where is the fun?

@IronicCliche

2 жыл бұрын

@@guille787 the risk is giving up your next best option for a thing that will likely fail at low levels.

@guille787

2 жыл бұрын

At low levels you don't have that many options regarding reactions. Also, I was talking about the fun RP of someone trying to help but doing so badly that it actually makes it worse for it's ally. Failing in something should also be fun in a rpg. There are many people looking at these games as a board game version of Final Fantasy Tactics

@IronicCliche

2 жыл бұрын

@@guille787 Good point.

Why is the DC where it's at? I hate the idea of low level players getting screwed over and forming a habit to stay away from Aid

umm... Don't you use Ready to be able to use Aid?

@lostsanityreturned

2 жыл бұрын

You have the text in the video, no.

@borismilenski4759

2 жыл бұрын

I think many people are confused by the wording "prepared to help". Usually, unless something is capitalized, you shouldn't have to refer to a different term/action when using the ability you're reading. If the ability describes something similar to another ability but does not explicitly mention it, you should focus on the text in front of you

@guille787

2 жыл бұрын

Ready an action is broader than aid, so it takes two actions and a reaction. Aid takes only one action but is limited to grant a bonus to an ally

+1 circumstance bonus for success is way to stingy IMO. Not really worth the effort. Should be a +2 minimum.

@lostsanityreturned

2 жыл бұрын

For the cost of a single action, usually at MAP-10. It really isn't Remember that at later levels you are going to grant an ally a +3 or +4 guaranteed because beating a DC20 check by 10 is laughably easy in the mid levels.

@Spathever

2 жыл бұрын

@@lostsanityreturned It's not on your turn. No MAP. Even says so in the video. This reaction is best for those that don't have their own from their class. It is also upgradeable with feats. I don't know any GMs who use only the DC 20 check. There are way better ideas here in the comments.

@AaronScott82

2 жыл бұрын

@@Spathever They weren't saying you get MAP to the check. They're saying the action you give up to do the aid is often a 3rd attack, which would have -10 MAP.

@AaronScott82

2 жыл бұрын

There are a lot of videos out there on why a +1 in PF2E is a big deal, and often worth it. Granted, it doesn't FEEL very impactful if you give up your action and the +1 doesn't end up affecting the outcome, but if you use aid often enough it can be really good in the long run, even at +1.