This man knows what he's talking about, I have taken lessons with Bradley Hughes and he teaches this as well. We would use a stuffed army duffel bag and used it to slam the club into the bag with forearm rotation, feel the resistance and then fling it off the bag. The distance in the shots were sooo long. There were many other drills, but the concepts are spot on. Thanks for the memories, enjoyed it.

@longhitter1566

Жыл бұрын

Watch Jon Rahm's swing. I think this is exactly what he's doing with his swing.

@euinhowie2303

Жыл бұрын

Love Bradley hughes stuff too, would be good to see "be better golf"team up for a video as haven't see much off Bradley hughes online for a while as he only does his members site now.

Really good description of ABS, but at some stage the theory needs some objective confirmation. High speed camera, force plates etc. Thanks for giving John the time and space to explain his ideas.

I am so excited by this man's instruction. More ASAP please. Great site. Really like the way you do it. Information is unbelievable.Keep it up. Thanks. Cheers

its magical when you gain the rotational feel with your arms behind, and feel the release "down the line" as the phrase goes

Great stuff. Moe Norman, tony finau, John Rahm. All seem to make the same move and have ‘compact’ swings. Fantastic explanations and being able to see the motion he’s describing into the impact bag is very helpful. I need to go to the range

I agree with all of this. I’ve studied Mr. Hogan’s swing for quite some time and I think this is pretty spot on. I have had a really bad right hip for a couple of years and had to change my swing to a really flat swing and wanted to learn as much as I could about Mr. Hogan’s thoughts as I could. This has a lot of easy power. Thank you for taking the time to help us all.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Flattening your lie angles will help out in wonderful ways. Brendon I am sure will post the stuff about that we went over in this deck lesson/ discussion. Sounds like you are on the right path!

Really great concept. Cant wait to see how this works for you.

Good stuff. The proof is in the pudding. I've been struggling for the last 2 seasons shooting in the low 90s and today I went out and for every shot, including 40 50 60 yard pitches, my only focus was bending the shaft continuous and dropped an 86 on my buddies and took all the cash. First time in a long time for me to do that. Although I say bending the shaft, in actuality my true thought was on bending the bones in the left forearm and it somehow allowed me to keep the shaft flexed. Thanks.

Probably the best BBG post I’ve seen👏👏

I kind of lost my feel after my hip replacement surgery. Thank God this video was made. Watched this and right back where I was before surgery. Thank you, John and Brendon! My favorite golf instructional video on KZread.

@BEBETTERGOLF

Жыл бұрын

Thank YOU for watching!

Good stuff.

Great stuff, I liken this technique leaning more towards old school swingers (not saying good or bad) however todays swingers tend take the roll out of the wrists early and rotate the body aggressively. I like any swing that emphasize a delayed or dragging sensation of the club head mass

As a certifiably crazy swing geek, I loved this! Thanks to Brandon and John Erickson for this fascinating discussion. Two things….. First, when you guys talk about “holding” shaft flex, you really mean that you want to *release* shaft flex into the ball, no? You do not want to try and hold that shaft flex post impact, correct? Second, I’m having a hard time conceptualizing how the left shoulder can outrace the club at impact. John gave an arbitrary “7” for the clubhead speed and said the left shoulder had to move at “8” or more in order to prevent massive clubface rotation. Man, oh man, when the club is traveling at 110 mph at impact, not sure how the left shoulder can outrace that. 🤷‍♂️. Looking forward to the next video to see how to put the theory into reality. Thanks again for this fascinating discussion! 👊👊

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Think of a record player... while the rotations per minute are the same from the inside to the outside,... the outside rim of the record is traveling faster than the inside... because it is traveling a much greater distance. The left shoulder is like the inside of the hub... but the clubhead is on the outside traveling much faster although the RPM's are the same. Range of motion is huge in a proper golf swing. This is how the left shoulder can easily outpace the hands.... but to get the maximum out of this.. the shoulders are better to rotate level... or horizontal to the ground... not vertical.

@michaelmurray8295

2 жыл бұрын

my $0.02. His right wrist goes from flexion to neutral at impact without going into extension. The wrist component of clubhead speed stops there. It looks like wrists go into extension when hands are shoulder high in follow through. But I agree. even with my old man 99 mph it seems like quite a feat to pull off.

@joebunc

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure John from shaft parallel in downswing to shaft parallel in follow through PGA pros are closing the face at over 1200 degrees per second and the face has closed 128 degrees or so in 104 milliseconds from parallel to parallel, while the record analogy is true, impact is a violent ballistic thing even if it looks graceful to the eye,,there is grip roll involved and tremendous work by the hands and wrist into impact, but you can't go from a 50' or more face open to the path at last parallel and get it to square to by only turning the inside of the record..The inside of the record is vitally important we know,,but the hands and wrists are not passive coming into impact. I think if one has played for long time we know all this, it just happens naturally if you've hit thousands of balls.. 3d captures have shown all this that is happening..Thanks for all the great stuff,,I remember following your stuff years and years ago and all of Bradleys old youtubes..Great to have you back on the scene!!

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@joebunc Lumping a bunch of PGA Tour pros into some kind of science study means little to me. When I was on tour, I was hitting it better than most, so wasn't really concerned about what others were doing.. unless they were better than me. As far as the open face.... what is the path and where am I aiming? When I was on the machine years ago, it said I was 2 degrees open at impact, but I was hitting dead straight shots with a piercing ball flight. I prefer to watch the ball.. have zero interest in a machine that doesn't even consider the mass of the clubhead. Just silly to me. How many times are you trying to hit the ball as far as possible in a round of golf? 6 or 8 times max? Every other shot you have to control distance.. putting, chipping, wedges, iron shots, par 3's hit to a spot or dogleg fairway. People clearly are not thinking about golf anymore. Good luck but I'll take your money every time.

Maintaining shaft flex in Hogan’s swing was a combination of dropping his hand down more vertically by keeping the trail elbow tucked in by side bending progressively more during the downswing and keeping his back foot on the ground until his hands passed over his back leg. Keeping the back foot on the ground limits hip rotation in the finish to about 45° open until the golfer lifts the back heel, which Hogan did in a very slow and controlled manner when viewed frame-by-frame (1/24th second shutter speed). He squared his back foot to swing line and first lifted it slowly before making any action to bring it up on toe and turn it. Limiting hip rotation that way causes the hips in to feel as if they hit a brick wall because when the rotation stops SO DOES THE LATERAL SHIFT TOWARDS THE TARGET which results reflexively / biomechanically when side bending the spine to the right. Try keeping both feet grounded at the top of a back swing and do nothing except side bend. The bending of the spine to the right causes a shift of upper body mass to the right which causes a reflexive shift of the hips laterally to the left (towards target) but keeping both feet on the ground limits hip travel. If the feet are a normal width apart the front leg will sway past vertical and there will be a loss of balance but Hogan’s stance was exceptionally wide. Who else had such a wide stance and the same side-bend / lateral hip shift/ foot lift action in the down swing? Moe Norman. Hogan and Norman both had body proportions of longer legs / shorter torsos than normal which affects how much one can side bend in the downswing which is likely why both didn’t separated back elbow from body much in the takeaway. I have the opposite body type with short legs and a very long torso which makes it very easy for me to side bend. That allows me to raise my trail arm like Nicklaus did (and was criticized for at the time for doing it too much) but if you watch Nicklaus what does he do in the downswing? Side bend to tuck his trail elbow in to body and extend right forearm backwards with elbow leading by the time the hands drop to waist level. Dropping the hands by progressively side bending while also rotating the shoulders shallows and straightens the swing arc relative to the target line. Keeping the hands back by leading with the trail elbow gives the club head the room it need to whip around the hands to the ball WITHOUT FLIPPING THE WRISTS. That was a secret first discovered I suspect by another golfer, Harry Frankenberg who George Peper called ‘The Worlds Greatest Golfer You Never Heard Of’ who performed a trick shot act at PGA events from the 1950s through the 1970s and was featured in TV golf shows. One of my first memories of golf in the 60s was seeing a trick shot artist hitting shots using a club which had a leather bull whip instead of a steel shaft. That was Count Yogi. He was born about the same time as Hogan and Nelson but couldn’t get on the tour because of his ethnicity (Jewish father / Native American mother) and eventually became a teaching pro at a Jewish country club in Hollywood where one of the members suggested he package his trick shot talents into a side show act. Based on videos of his I watched after reading about him in Peper’s book back around 2010 I tried to emulate his swing to figure out how the biomechanics and physics worked. This grip was a conventional Vardon style but at impact his hands were arranged with the lead hand maxed out completely in extension and ulnar deviation with the trail arm pulled straight with forearm also in maxed out ulnar deviation. Trying it I realized that that’s how the wrists wind up in a conventional swing in the finish of a tour pro who lets the club force pull the trail arm straight! What happens at that instant to force the hand to turn over? They max out travel in the joints and lock. With experimentation with Frankenberg’s ‘goofy’ looking hand position at impact I realized he was locking the wrists and abruptly slowing down the club head because of that just as the face of the club was square to the target which caused the already compressed ball to release off the face of club far more explosively that in a conventional swing which picks it up and continues to carry it at 80 mph as it compresses and releases. Frankenberg’s swing was like a car crash before seat belts-when the car stopped the occupants flew through the windshield. Which is how Hogan might have learned the same cause and effect. Or he just saw Frankenberg’s act and copied the same action of allowing the club head to swing down with full unlar deviation in the trail hand by impact to momentarily lock it with the grip and cause the ball to release off the face with a higher rate of decompression which makes a distinctly sharper “click” sound than the compression / release off a face traveling 80 mph. Golf writers at the time commented about how different Hogan’s ball striking sounded. That’s why. Hogan’s grip was mechanically the opposite, but due to the way he rolled the front wrist into maxed out flexion and supination as also allowed his trailing hand to be pulled down ‘waggle’ down into ulnar deviation (thumb down) through impact caused the same locking of wrists (and club face) and slowing of the club as Frankenberg with the same more explosive rate of release of ball that in the conventional swing which I surmise was invented back in the days of hickory shafts to prevent them from snapping in half. The trick for preventing the shaft from bending forward to the point of failure at the hosel is to release the back foot to get the hips/shoulders/hands moving again which allows them to catch up to the club head taking the forward bend out of the shaft. But is a very timing / coordination reliant swing style. If the timing is off the forward bend of the shaft will at loft to the face and if the ball isn’t fully compressed and ready to release off the face when the wrists lock a snap hook occurs because of the way the wrist turn over immediately after they lock (as in the finish of a conventional swing). That’s why when Hogan missed it was with duck hook and why Norman and Frankenberg had high finish swing arcs (the toe points up immediately after ball release and club head goes in the direction club mass is pointing when the wrists lock and cock.

@the_full_english

Жыл бұрын

Jesus… who’s gonna bother reading all that 😴

@TeddyCavachon

Жыл бұрын

@@the_full_english Well I guess Hogan’s secret is safe then 😂

@3n2a2

Ай бұрын

I did. Didn't digest it all the first time of course. The full length Count Yogi video is back up on KZread. Love to see someone study and attempt to teach. He was obviously feeling and controlling the clubhead on a different level to be able to hit dozens of clubs with shafts that were hinged, chain, fishing poles, short, long...anything that could be attached to a clubhead. He could putt with anything too.

Incredible content👍

Went through Johns lesson's about 10 years ago and they we great. The only way I could get that shaft flex feeling was through the right hand not the left. But it's great to see John back.

@swisstrader

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting. How did it change your swing and how long did it take to perfect it?

@ausdjt

2 жыл бұрын

@@swisstrader It wasn't long to be honest. Probably 2-3 weeks until I didn't need to think about it every swing. John's has several modules and module one has you doing the motion with each hand by itself. I'm currently at a 3 handicap without much practice and that's mostly due to John.

Very interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an instructor promote a wide open face prior to impact, nor have I seen a pro use this method. I shall give it a go!

Great video

I'd be interested in hearing how grip and grip pressure affect shaft flex. I've found in my case, that if I grip the club firmly especially with my trail hand, I can sense more shaft flex through impact. I actually posted this just prior to John talking about grip pressure.

@steveperry1344

Жыл бұрын

i find the same but i grip super firm with both hands. it's like you think the club face is never gonna catch up and be square but it does.

Coming into p6 with an open face and aggressively closing it with both forearm and the hands sounds more like timing than anything and a recipe for hooks

@jonintc

2 жыл бұрын

That’s what I thought but my bad timing and hooks come from trying to “hit” the ball while transitioning from the top, which leads to early extension goat humping which leads to big forearm twist. The biggest tell for me is how the club ends up vertical post impact. When I’ve sorta done it the way in the video, my swing thought is to aim butt of the club down range at the bottom of the swing (open face) and that allows me to turn shoulders aggressively. I was able to hit some 240yard 4iron tee shots this way and have it go straight

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Nope.. not at all. Wide open is mostly closed by the pivot rotation... wrists just uncock and rotate to make contact with the ball. Clubface keeps looking at the target.... not flipping over which is the definition of "timing". Nothing to "time" with the clubface rotating into the ball. Are you worried about a door in your house closing because it was opened? No...

@m3toz4

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure I think how to use hands and wrist to square the club with power at impact will drive all body parts to hit the golf ball to the target. there are many ways to square club face at impact just by using hands and wrist.

Over the years I have tried both of these methods (ABS open face and use forearm rotation vs closed face and proper wrist angles) and both work if practiced correctly. Since I have spent the last few years trying to keep the face more in line w/ my spine angle and have better wrist angles, going back to trying to ingrain what would feel like more timing is just too much work at this point. Mr. Erickson definitely has a lot of Mr. Hogan's swing in his teaching method. I'll stick with what I have been working on. Love the more upward, Hoganesque follow thru however!

@paulkiat

2 жыл бұрын

This is so true, the homie Zach that used to be headpro at rec park in longbeach in the 90s used take lessons from Ted Lehmann, Bruce Hamilton, and Jamie Mulligan. They would teach the no club face rotation. However whenever hed see Mike Austin in Pasadena in the early days, he would teach the supination- pronation. Technically more power is in the latter, I think Ted, Bruce, and Jamie taught the former because they taught for tournament play.

@josephshawa

2 жыл бұрын

@@paulkiat "Technically"? In what way?

@paulkiat

Жыл бұрын

@@josephshawa supination/pronation adds two different force vectors in the wrist instead of just flexion/extension. However flexion/extension is like hitting a tennis ball w/ a racket, while supination/pronation is like hitting a baseball w/ a bat.

@josephshawa

Жыл бұрын

@@paulkiat I would say that technically, :-), if you keep your club head square and your hand in the natural position that allows that to happen up to and just through impact, then there really isn't much to think about. Works for me anyway because I dragged my club around with a dead arm and turn early enough that there is a natural position of my wrist arm and club face.

@paulkiat

Жыл бұрын

@@josephshawa I totall agree, that's how I play golf. I'm specifically talking about POWER *force* vectors with supination and pronation, not accuracy. But know, I release with no rolling to hit the cut.

Hey Brandon, out of all the swing theories you have delved into which one do you like the most. And why. Thanks ,Dave

@steveperry1344

Жыл бұрын

that's a good question, i can't wait to hear his answer.

@davidmecucci7348

Жыл бұрын

@@steveperry1344 I wish he would answer after all that's what the whole thing is about

Dan Pohl does this and he still hits killer drives.👍👍🙂

John and Brandon Is it just club head speed that determines distance. And holding shaft flex to delivery is the way to maximise club head speed? Or is there more about holding flex that affects distance?

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Well, I find it fascinating that none of the flight testing machines take into consideration the mass of the clubhead. It's quite shocking that such and oversight could happen in the "scientific community". Seems like people are impressed anytime a tech person puts on a white coat and uses science as a platform. Maybe I'll start hitting balls in a white lab coat with a machine behind me with a lot of wires coming out of it... The science community in golf has a lot of research and catching up to do.

That’s great info for a younger player but what should a senior golfer do?

Very interesting. Serendipity hit me one day on the range. I found , starting at impact position , as I took the shaft up to 11:00 🕚, I would rotate the club face open, on the downswing I would simply rotate the club face closed into impact. But the speed of the swing would start at the ball as I incorporated the jump. I couldn’t stop the speed and my arms would fly over my left shoulder. I videoed it. And was wondering if you would be interested to seeing the video?

how is this different than the Line of Compression guy and his dst club ? maybe @BBG can answer since he visited both here’s another observation how does this type of swing differ from a hockey slap shot?

Of course, coming in with the handle so low and from inside you MUST rotate your left shoulder up and around - otherwise fat shots. It's one way to swing. Sergio comes to my mind.

Fascinating...i think I get it but i'm not sure. I've played with shaft bend but it is difficult to reproduce it on every shot but when it is on... it is on. I am intruqued by extending the shaft bend or flex into the left arm where you flex the entire left arm and shaft thru impact. Getting late but looking forward to going to the range tomorrow night. Thanks guys.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Just remember that the harder you work post impact with the pivot.. the more shallow you need to be coming into impact. It's like tightening bolts down on both sides of the swing... downswing ... post impact. Shallow entry, then hit hard!

@darbyguns4906

Жыл бұрын

Thank you John! Working on it! Appreciate all your expertise and analysis You have gone deep down the rabbit hole and emerged with some powerful insights!

@TheLastBabyBoomer

Жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure I got it. I've been practicing this thing everyday for the last week and a half and this new incredible impact is solid, day after day. It is something that does not go away. My 13 yr old junior golfer is now holding shaft flex and it's changed his game. You're right!!! Shaft flex through impact is critical and can be consistent. I now know why it failed for me previously, I did not continue the flex through impact and slightly beyond impact. What really made it work, at least for me, is to drive my body backwards with my left leg thru impact, which seems to extend the flex just long enough to get that high level impact, of which I've never had consistently before. Thanks again🙂

Brenden, isn't this the swing that Mike Malaska always talks about as messing up his game?

He's absolutely right. The early ulnar deviation (unhinge) where he's dropping the shaft will get the club's center of mass below the force vector of the hands which will create passive torque and will speed up the supination of the lead forearm. (and close the clubface without much muscular effort) This is one thing the golf machine folks seemed to overlook and where a lot of people go wrong trying hold lag. The other issue is the actual direction of the force vector of the hands. If you direct your hands towards an 'aim point' ahead of the ball along the target line (Again, a golf machine concept) you'll end up with steep 'diggy' contact. It's counter intuitive but the hands need to work in (left for the right handed player) and UP. This will send the center of mass and clubhead outward towards the ball on the desired shallow angle. Sasho Mackenzie talks a fair amount about this.

@jackflash8756

2 жыл бұрын

JE says at 7:01 -7:08 that he is actively rotating with aggression in his forearms. He isn't using the 'passive club squaring torque' that has been suggested by Dr Sasho MacKenzie.

@scotthamann1476

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackflash8756 The passive torque just means that it's generated as a biproduct of having the center of mass below the force vector of the hand path. That doesn't mean a player can't apply muscular effort as he describes.

@jackflash8756

2 жыл бұрын

True, but why do it as it will increase ROC (Rate Of Closure) and you will need better timing to square the clubface by impact? High or low ROC doesn't seem to affect PGA pros but it could for less skilled golfers. Theoretically, if some of the golf research models are reflective of a real human golfer's muscle, it might be possible to increase clubhead speed by over 22% (compared to a swing using the passive torque) but that will involve perfect timing in the generation of various body segment torques in a proximal-distal sequence, including positive wrist torque (ie. for ulnar deviation) and active lead forearm rotation happening almost simultaneously. Check out the research article by Dr Sasho MacKenzie (it is a free .pdf you can download from the web) titled 'Club position relative to the golfer’s swing plane meaningfully affects swing dynamics'.

@scotthamann1476

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackflash8756 When I saw the first line of your post my first thought was 'speed'. You can create passive torque on your bicycle - the hubs on your wheels will turn all by themselves if you coast down a hill. OR you can also simultaneously 'pedal with aggression' and go even faster. Regarding the ROC issue. Admittedly, I don't have data to support this statement but I would suspect that most amateurs who have hooking issues or balls that go left in general don't do so because they produce too much gamma torque. It's more likely excessive alpha torque. The loft on the clubhead faces left at impact due to its relationship to the handle. aka - 'flipping' I could be wrong. Anyhow - back to the video - the point of my original comment was that John is spot on in his assessment that a golfer needs early ulnar deviation to be able to rotate their lead forearm (supinate) with aggression. PGA tour players with high ROC's don't have accuracy issues because they have forward shaft lean. In other words - it's the in plane torque - not excessive rotation of the shaft - that causes issues. I believe that I've read the paper that you mention but I will do so again. I appreciate the discourse!

It must be wonderful to be gifted like a Couples or a Monty and never have to worry or concern themselves with all this swing stuff.

I get it.. it's similar to AJ Bonar when he said open the club face so you can slam it shut. This is adding the hard left shoulder turn to keep the shaft flex. Like all sports it's great timing and practice. My best drives were those when I felt like I slammed my forward wrist closed at impact.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

No one cries foul when a door slams shut. Very open relative to the frame... once it hits the frame (ball) it hits square every time.

@joetraxel7822

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure Perhaps I'm missing something here but it seems to me the door analogy should be made to a swinging door and not one with a stop. The forearm is the hinge point and when you strike that bag it serves as a stop, but in hitting the ball no stop is present; this is why I agree with others that timing is involved. Without your shoulder/body outracing the hands at your predetermined time the hands will surely manifest themselves as a roll release. + 1 hr. Having watched some videos and just trying your swing method I must say if "feels" very stable and quick. I thought I had swung almost every imaginable way but not this way. Will test it out tomorrow to see if it is as stable with a ball in the way. The one aspect of the golf swing that has surprised me over the years is how many times if you do the opposite of what seems intuitive it works out better. Thanks for the video and your comments; too bad some have to be so ugly. It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@joetraxel7822 Yes you are missing something. For simplicity sake,.. lets assume the forearms rotate 90 degrees.. the door jam is the pivot rotation.. they can't go farther than that because the left shoulder starts accelerating and they can't overtake or get in front of it or flip. It's a skill set that we teach. I understand that for some trying to intellectualize it can be a hurdle.. so we just teach what needs to be done. But certainly you could just snap your forearm rotation 90 degrees and stop the rotation... but the clubhead wants to keep going, so it's taken over by the shoulder rotation.. like a track runner handing off a baton to a faster runner. It's not a timing thing.. but there is a sequence to it. You will never see me flip the clubface over post impact.. neither will you see that with Hogan except for the Mexico films were he was experimenting with a swingers' release.

Gold

We’ll I’m 77 and I’ve been putting this together and doing lots of no ball swings. Hit a couple of the longest most accurate drives of my life yesterday. This stuff is the magic sauce - this is the parts of hogan/snead that they missed out - because this stuff is what makes a huge difference to length and accuracy.

@BEBETTERGOLF

7 ай бұрын

Great to hear!

@ChristopherDowning

7 ай бұрын

@@BEBETTERGOLF I’ve now also managed to get the book Sam Snead Teaches You His Simple Key Approach to Golf. And just as John says - it’s a very powerful book and it feels to me as John says - better than Hogans 5 Lessons. It’s far more instructive and clear. It sort of gives you permission to do things like right hand hit that so many other coaches forbid!! (See if you can get John to go through the keys in the book?)

I have tried this in the past and may be doing this wrong as the clubface seems close the face before impact and gives me a hook? If I try to hold the face square I don't get the dynamic impact. Is this a timing swing or should the face stay stable with the rotation or the the forarma and body ?

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Daniel, most golfers stall their pivot rotation through the strike. Sounds like this is what you are doing. You are likely just throwing your right arm (elbow) at the ball to close the face. Very hard to time that kind of release. So glad I don't do that anymore.

@danielwenderlich3438

2 жыл бұрын

After watch this video I concentrated on using the wrist and forearms to bring the clubbed to the ball and kept my shoulders relatively quiet as the handled was slowing and cludhead speeding to square the clubhead to the ball I them woth thrust rotated my shoulder and upper body to the speed the club head through the ball. P.S. I really enjoy your theory and approach to the golf swing.

What’s is the exact difference between shaft flex and lag?

I want to hear how high he began finishing in tournaments after going to this style of swing. I’m not familiar with him by name in his playing days.

Ok so with this philosophy would it be advantageous to have a more flexible or more rigid/stiff shaft?

@1DCCX

2 жыл бұрын

X7s or tipped x100. Or hardstepped x100. Stiff as you can.

Having given 18,000+ golf lessons, worked with O’Grady and Ballard, and studied Mike Austin in detail. It seems that every week I struggle to determine which part of the swing is most important. For example, why bother setting up square when your shoulders are open at impact? Should right hand, right hip and right knee be at the ball at the same time in the downswing? Is speed created by unwinding or more so caused by hands stopping and club head continuing prior to impact? I like that your head and center move laterally, its not a sway as long as you rotate. I like your left arm connection. I like your forearms together. I like your braced right leg. I like that you post on left leg. But I believe that holding lag is a death move, that you must unlock right from the top, it’s not casting if the club is coming down and accelerating. Handle drag causes pushes forcing the player to attempt to rotate faster losing timing. All in all I love that you are an artist, that you care enough to study in great detail and pass your knowledge to others. Hats off.

@travisy2772

Жыл бұрын

You have said the things I ponder daily. When I am giving golf lessons my approach lies in the level of athleticism and the body type. To use this method Mr Erickson is explaining tends to be a compact and heavily demanding force for players that aren’t very athletic. It requires more of a body connection when sequenced properly allowing the feeling of super simple motion in a short distance. The trick is to not allow the right side to get away from you going back and holding the angle with the right forearm back to the ball. When done properly seems ridiculously easy and without resistance. This is a swing for someone who knows their body and has played long enough to understand the patience it takes to wait for the club to get level with hips before engaging the forearms and still have the hips in position to rotate and post. This stuff is great, no doubt about it. It produces the momentum and club head speed like no other. The caviat of this style is that Ben Hogan spent thousands of hours practicing and his setup, the (static part) has to be such that it compliments this motion. Hogans setup could be the most intricate system the game has ever known. The ergonomics are such that you can build it around any swing and it compliments every force the body imparts on the club as long as the sequencing is implemented accordingly. This is true with any method you want to convey to a student. The most important part that I take away from this video is proper sequencing wins. The ladies that have perfected this 45 degree angle to the path of the target line in conjunction with the face angle are bringing the game to a whole new level of consistency. I’m so thankful to have golf in my life and be around people that are so eager to learn and become the best they can be. This game is by far the one thing in life that has given me perspective and objective participation not to mention countless parallels to life. I know that I have flown completely off topic but I also know information can get lost when transferred from one place to another. There are so many components to YOUR golf swing that grooving a solid swing that feels connected and controllable should be your first objective. Things to think about when learning is always have a target in mind before you strike a ball! Never become so intense that your mind controls your swing while you’re doing it. Lastly remember it’s a game and you’re supposed to enjoy the process along with the journey. Be kind to yourself and others and you’ll never lose.

@mudddge

Жыл бұрын

All that and you still haven’t found a way to simplify the golf swing?

The advice at 18:45 to have the club wide open, facing skyward at this point in the swing is probably the worst I've ever heard. Check Rory, Tiger, or DJ's swings. Not one of them is close to that position at that point in the swing. They already have club face closed or are starting to close it at this point. The guy made 50ish swings in this video, and only once when he gave this horrible advice, did he have the face wide open when the club was parallel to the ground on the downswing. What he says he does and what he actually does is not the same.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

All those guys would trade their swings for Hogan's I can assure you. Tiger admitted he never really felt like he owned his swing. For your theory to be correct (shut face) you'd have to explain away Hogan, Trevino, Knudson and Moe Norman.

The modern teachers are having their students get that hand/wrist rotation earlier in the downswing. If you look at the longest hitters, just before impact their clubhead starts moving past the shaft before they hit the ball, it doesn't lag behind the shaft. If this man's swing thoughts work for you then go with it, different swings work for different people.

Pure Bradley Hughes, who has been teaching this for years

@BEBETTERGOLF

2 жыл бұрын

They are teaching partners in Advanced Ballstriking

@swisstrader

2 жыл бұрын

Oy!

@anthonymassaro2394

Жыл бұрын

John taught Brad his methodology

Yup dead hands is only for short game!! People so often get confused. 17:38 release is how you hit a full backswing instead of half backswing. Also 17:00 your left shoulder is the apogee of the ellipse and is an exact measurement so you don't have to guess when free-wheeling it when it moves to the perigee.

@josephshawa

Жыл бұрын

I can't understand why anybody would want to reach maximum speed out in front of the ball. My maximum speed is hopefully it impact and then I don't care what happens.

@paulkiat

Жыл бұрын

@@josephshawa because it's easier to control the direction

@josephshawa

Жыл бұрын

@@paulkiat But the direction's already established and the club has accelerated right up to impact and the shaft has held it's flex, I see no reason for anything else. Can you explain why?

@paulkiat

Жыл бұрын

@@josephshawa Think thats a question for @bebettergolf

Thanks to Brandon and John Erickson for a great video, kudos to John Erickson, must of been hard to sell your idea of the swing . . as we all know the golfing machine is never wrong ! but I believe in your concept.

@mikerichardson5022

2 жыл бұрын

Left forearm rotation is no 3 power accumulator in the golfing machine, I think.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Hogan, Moe, Knudson, Trevino even Mac O.... all apply these concepts. I'll let them sell it for me...

@mikerichardson5022

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure The tech, i.e Hackmotion, is now backing up what you say about the lead wrist going into extension thro the ball.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikerichardson5022 I'm not anti science, but when a scientific analytic machine like "trackman" doesn't consider the mass index of the clubhead into the equation or have an algorithm to input there.. I just have to roll my eyes in disbelief of such an oversight. Two objects colliding but no consideration for the mass of one of the objects.. are you kidding me? Good Lord.

@gunghogolf

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure What difference would knowing the clubhead mass make to determining the flight of the ball or quality of strike? TM measures the clubhead velocity and ball velocity with a high degree of accuracy, so the ball speed, spin, launch angles, and smash factor tells you all you need to know about the quality of strike and ball flight. Perhaps a heavier head would give you a higher smash, perhaps not - but TM would let you know. Also, the guy you were replying to above was asking about HackMotion, not a launch monitor. The HM device is a truly great tool the precisely measures what both wrists are doing through the swing in all three ranges of motions. I’d love to see your traces using HM, as it may shed more light on what’s actually going on (even more than video or Gears3D can pick up).

I do hit my irons longer with this method but I find it more difficult the longer the club gets. (Driver very difficult). For longer clubs it is easier when using the closed face in line w spine angle). How do you manage to rotate your forearm with the longer clubs?

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Drill and get stronger. Longer clubs are harder for sure.. I practice with either a heavy 1960's 1 iron or a persimmon driver. Keeps me a good shape and saves money cancelling the gym membership!

@thilog5874

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure thank you John for answering!

It's exactly Moe Normans description of the vertical drop and the horizontal tug if you watch him demonstrate it on video.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

I knew Moe well and he talked about a lot of this stuff with me. There is a lot of Moe in ABS for sure. Good observation!

As I understand the physics, bending the hand path up and towards the golfer causes the deflection as the centre of mass, or club head basically, seeks to line up with the direction of the force. He showed it with the left hand motion.

@jackflash8756

2 жыл бұрын

You are correct and John Erickson mistaken about what causes the release of the club (ie. increased angular acceleration). Eccentric forces across the grip causes an 'In Plane MOF' (MOF means 'Moment Of Force'), therefore increasing the hand speed and changing the hand path to more curved will dictate the release of the club, not 'Centrifugal Force' as he claims. Even some golf scientists have mistakenly used the term 'Centrifugal Force' as some sort of pragmatic explanation of the forces involved in generating clubhead speed. In my humble opinion, using incorrect physics give golfers the incorrect perception of the golf swing and may cause them to swing in ways that are sub-optimal.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackflash8756 No need to get lost in translation. Certainly the clubhead is pulling on the shaft lengthwise. If the clubhead were to break off the shaft near impact, the clubhead is going to move away from you.. not towards you. Let's uses some common sense here. Also, the clubhead can be accelerating tangentially around the circumference of a circular path. Those are the two main forces we need to be concerned with. If you are one of those esoteric physics folks who deny the existence of CF, then we won't have to send you to the ER when the head breaks off the shaft and hits you in the face. If you prefer the description of spinning around a rock on a string as some other technical term, nothing wrong with that. Just trying to communicate what needs to be done in a golf swing..not teaching a college graduate class in scientific definitions and rhetoric.

@jackflash8756

2 жыл бұрын

Yes , there are 2 forces, the tangential and the centripetal force, not a 'Centrifugal Force'. If the head broke off, it would move off with a velocity (at the time of the break) in a tangential direction. There is certainly a 'Centrifugal Force' but that term is used to describe a fictitious force that one has to create to make 'Newtons Laws of Motion' work (in a non-inertial frame of reference which I won't bother defining - just google search it). I think you are getting mixed up with the equal and opposite forces as per Newtons 3rd Law. When the club is angularly accelerated by 'Torque' created by forces applied to the grip via the hands, there is a need for a 'Centripetal Force' to keep the club moving in a curved path. This centripetal force is the increased tension in the club shaft. So, in effect, the hands are pulling on the shaft/clubhead, but due to Newtons 3rd law, the club is also pulling on the hands. There is no outward pulling force on the clubhead by a 'Centrifugal Force' (as I defined previously). How can the clubhead manifest a force on itself? Using the spinning of a rock on a string is a strange analogy because the physics for explaining how to increase the angular velocity of the rock is not straightforward but it has got nothing to do with 'Centrifugal Force'. If your instruction is only directed to non-science golfers, then there is no need to use the term 'Centrifugal Force', just call it the 'inertia' of the club.

I am appalled at anyone who would provide a negative comment. People going on KZread for FREE golf swing advice and then complain about it or critique the content. There are so many matchups that can provide an acceptable outcome in a golf swing. Whether it's "feels or reals" it just the tip of an incredibly large iceberg. I have gone down thousands of rabbit holes in golf and found that almost all of them can work to a certain level. Is this information provided by ABS complicated? Maybe. But there is also a chance that this information is coming from two guys - John and Bradley, that at one time were some of the best in the world at their chosen craft. Maybe their information isn't for everyone and maybe it's for ADVANCED BALL STRIKING. In my opinion, you would have had to have gone down a path of exhaustion in golf swing theory to even be able to understand what ABS is trying to explain. If you really listen to John and Bradley talk, you can tell both of these guys have gone to the end with millions of balls struck, while tirelessly experimenting.I am not a student of theirs, but I certainly appreciate Brandon sharing John's philosophy for nothing more than the click of mouse. Personally, I have felt that there has always been a lack of "strike" in my impact and I have always been a shaft leaned pivot dragger that had great "looks" for video consumption. I know once I started to apply some of these principles to my impact area, I had positive results. I am definitely appreciative of this free content.

Very much like the Dunaway swing. Notice though, he is getting on the front post as his hands come through and he rotates the fore arms and shoulders.

@darbyguns4906

Жыл бұрын

Spot on analysis well done! If you havent seen his vids Lee Comeaux has been preaching same message do not turn the toe over! Back of the club head is key not the face

@mudddge

Жыл бұрын

Now I’ve read it all

10:40, great transition discussion

This is my big problem with the modern swing. I can't feel where the face is at at all. The guys like John I think understand the hands have to be active. I just flush it more easily and have more feel if I feel the club is heavy, stays around my chest, and I have some release before the ball.

@BEBETTERGOLF

7 ай бұрын

Hands are underrated by modern golf coaches. But never but players of any era. To them hands are everything

The guy who taught a lot of the top Europeans - Woosnan, Mark James, Howard Clark and otherswho John Ericsson was probably referring to was Gavin Christie.

Hi John. Awesome as usual! With all due respect, why so little, if not seemingly total disregard for the short game, across all your videos? Brad Faxon- short and crooked with 8 wins. Again, not trying to troll and genuinely curious to hear your take.

@9:19 Like the waggle in Ben Hogan’s Five Lessons.

Some of this teaching seems contrary to what others are teaching based on scientific research, 3D analysis and such. Hackmotion research, Tyler Ferrell, etc. show/teach most pros have some ulnar deviation and tend to close the club face more on the downswing. Dr. Kwon’s research shows how to most efficiently use the body. Dr. Scott Lynn (with Swing Catalyst) shows swing speed comes from horizontal, torque, and vertical forces - in that order though to different degrees in each golfer. Both Kwon’s and Lynn’s research reveal ground forces as the key to speed in the swing. I’ll be interested to see how this series compares to my examples above.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@Steven Dedrick Correct..

@chrisharbert8333

2 жыл бұрын

BBG should bring in 2 average golfer. one goes to Kwon one goes to ABS and document the process and results. think if Hogan had access to all this technology he wouldn’t utilize it?

@MarkLamprecht

2 жыл бұрын

@@chrisharbert8333 love the idea! He should make it happen. Two (or four) 18 - 20 handicaps. -Record 10 shots each with driver, 7-iron, and pitching wedge. -Two hour training sessions with each coach/teacher. -Record above 10 shots again. -Maybe have a before and after 18 hole round. Something like that…

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@chrisharbert8333 You mean super lightweight clubs and trackman machines that don't even consider the mass of the clubhead in a collision between two objects? I think Hogan would have a lot to say about such things.

how can mere mortals think about so many complicated moves in the micro second of a golf swing? You would literally need to be have world class hand/eye coordination to even hit the ball with this method

@stevedriscoll2539

7 ай бұрын

My two cents: you just practice and practice and practice every single detail of the golf swing one tiny piece at a time. Maybe a guy like Hogan worked on a hundreds of little details one swing at a time.

This is all very interesting. Sort of Henry Cotton meets Mac O’Grady.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Cotton was interesting in that he had a very level rotation with a swingers release. Cotton was know for hitting car tires instead of golf balls. CF thrower but like the way he did it for sure.

@johndonohoe3778

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure for the average golfer, without the hip and joint flexibility, Cottons technique may be better. Hogan had a unique body and a swing unique to it. Are you worried about wrist and elbow injury with this aggressive ( at least it seems to me) technique? I like you ideas I’m just worried about long term damage. Thanks John.

Seems like a very active toe, no? And then you have to bend the lie angle way flatter so you don’t over rotate and hook it left. I’m not understanding how this doesn’t involve having to “time it”

@chachifeere

Жыл бұрын

The toes not active you essentially turn your left wrist down after the shallowing move he does. I do this and it’s very hard to hook the ball. Does take practice. And I use a neutral grip

I like that we're learning from this man with jeans and a wooden club.

RightSidedSwing Gary Edwin ?

With that much forearm rotation I would think it would be very difficult for the club player to square the club face consistently. Hitting the ball far is great but the game really comes down to accuracy.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Well, it's a common fear Bob, but this way, the clubface stays much more stable and looking at the target post impact. The face doesn't flip over like yours is probably doing. We take timing out of it.. no roll, no flip. When you open a door in your house and it is wide open, are you worried it won't close correctly every time?

@rm00k

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure but of course the door isn't rotating *and* hinging, it's just hinging. To me, rolling and rotating the forearms is the same thing. There is still a lot of timing involved in turning the body through to stop the face rotation and to keep the face square to the target, something casual or weekend players will probably find difficult to do.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@rm00k Bob, you're wrong. I understand you can't know what you don;'t know, but there are things you are not considering. The body is moving and the clubshaft is also moving.. so to keep them in proper relationship to one another, the forearms act to facilitate this. I can rotate my forearms to a stop.. and not roll them over. You have this image in your head that is not correct nor is it what I teach. I have taken timing out of the swing. I play and practice less than anyone I know.. and hit it dead straight every time. No timing.

@chachifeere

Жыл бұрын

It’s not necessary “rolling the firearms” look what he’s doing it’s the left hand. He’s turn the knuckles down and having a flat left wrist. I’ve been doing the turning left wrist for the last few years working on it and it works great. But just now that when I see this 430 path. Open face or shallowing move that the ball has a hard time going left , I do find though with the driver I really have to think about turning the body and doing the left wrist move to sq the face though Other than that it works great.

@bebettergolf - would you classify this as similar to the spank release a lot of guys are teaching? It sounds like it - especially when John says when he plays best he feels like his left wrist is extended at impact. @john Erickson - would this be like a vertical hinge release in TGM? Clubface to the sky type of feeling

@charlesangeli7412

2 жыл бұрын

That feeling is when I get my best results with an iron !!!

@jameslopiccolo6217

2 жыл бұрын

@@charlesangeli7412 me too (chronic hooker) but it's a little harder for me to repeat with driver/woods. When i get it right, i hit the ball very very good

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Yes and no... should feel like a vertical hinge, but TGM teaches a very off plane golf swing through the strike.. it's quite ironic. TGM wants you on plane everywhere except where it really counts. It was a hard nut to swallow as I was raised as a child prodigy of TGM. Leaving that nest of security didn't go over well with my instructors.

@jameslopiccolo6217

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure do you like the club face to the sky feeling post impact? would that be a simply feel/thought that might get the club moving how we want it? great video, thanks for the reply

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@jameslopiccolo6217 It can feel that way very much. I shot a video years back where I have the clubface skyward at P3 (parallel prior to impact) and again have the clubface skyward at P4 (parallel post impact).... with the ball taking off just a few degrees to the right.... pretty straight. Seems impossible to most... but it's right there.. I demonstrate it and cast away some of the myths about this stuff.

The use of the hands sound very much like Sir Henry Cotton and his use of hands. Anyone watching this vid should look up some of the Cotton vids.

Jim venetos talks about keeping shaft flex all the time. But he advocates a completely different swing. Check him out Brandon, for the sake of golf science!

For naysayers. Pls watch AMG golf swing like Phil for what the top players are actually doing. Exactly what John is demonstrating :)

@napkimplz5416

2 жыл бұрын

Phil Mickelson? I thought what John is trying to teach and demonstrate is to do exact opposite. Phil is a swinger and John is advocating hitting

@mitchy7051

2 жыл бұрын

@@napkimplz5416 I think we've been fed the Kool aid. Phil is actively trying to line up the shaft. It's the charactistics of the shaft that are important not necessarily the technique that is seen on camera

@ocat1979

2 жыл бұрын

Phil and also Els and Vijay have excelled at timing a flip to perfection, they have hit, and have to hit 1000’s and 1000’s of balls to maintain it. Great if you have that kind of time, but 99.9999% of average golfers certainly don’t

I've been thinking about this "loaded shaft" thing for a few years now. I can't figure out if it's better to strike the ball with a loaded shaft, because then it'll load more when impacting the mass of the ball, but then the ball is gone before that load can be released, or if it's better to strike the ball with the shaft kicked forward, or the reverse of loaded, so that when it impacts the ball it loads and stays in contact with the ball for a microsecond longer imparting more energy. In every video I've ever seen with high speed cameras the ball is always struck with the shaft kicked forward, or completely unloaded. Some say it's an illusion of the rolling shutter but then they turn the camera sideways and get the same result. We have shaft flex for a reason. I'd love to hear the real specs on iron Byron and if they've programed it to deliver the strike with or without the shaft loaded. I would imagine they're trying to mimic a human so it should be unloaded.

@1DCCX

2 жыл бұрын

Iron Byron has X7 shafts.

@1DCCX

2 жыл бұрын

Shaft stres is about effective mass. If I said here’s an 8 iron, hit that golf ball as if it were a feather, you would throw the lag pressure away, you would coast into the ball and the force driver would be momentum. Some might say as an impulse it’s more efficient. If I said hit it like an iron bar you wouldn’t throw it away. I ran an experiment with my 7iron some years ago. 92 mph 1.36 smash with throw away. 88 mph 1.42 smash with lag pressure. Very different feels though. The former felt chasing and never catching, the second was deliberate and heavier. Former lost control of the clubhead. The latter would err on the too slow clubhead speed side in an effort to accelerate. But had control of the club. The former felt you had to time tensing up at impact like a boxer in order to apply some effective mass, the latter was so tempting to hit a good one and then try and go a bit faster. Different mental challenges.

@ngascoigne

2 жыл бұрын

@@1DCCX come along to John's forum, would love to hear more.

@jackflash8756

2 жыл бұрын

The main reason the club shaft has forward bend is because the hands cannot anatomically keep up with the increased angular velocity of the club. Therefore, the hands are being dragged through impact which means they are applying a passive 'net' negative torque at the grip. It is very rare for golfers to achieve lagging bend into impact unless they are extremely strong and fast. Most long drivers cannot achieve lagging bend into impact, and they are using positive torque in their wrists to release the club, because they have no choice because their driver lengths are 50 inches long. It is physically impossible for them to use the physics of a swinging action (where positive wrist torque is counterproductive) therefore they have to use musculature wrist torque to assist them, yet the club shaft is still in forward shaft bend by impact.

@HolyGrailOfGolf

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackflash8756 I agree!

He is Mike Austin 👍

Yay.

So many different theories and ideas on how to swing the club can be a bit overwhelming and Utube can cause you to hop around with each idea. Don't do it... Find a instructor and if they teach you something and it clicks with you stop seeking out other ideas haha.

@eyesopen9477

2 жыл бұрын

💯

Try timing that move at 90 mph

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Gets easier the faster the club is moving.. assuming it is accelerating... we show how to do that.

Soooo how do you get from the top of the backswing to the knees????

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

It's all over our ABS Module work... everything is working toward that common goal of delivering a pre loaded shaft into the ball.. from putter to driver.

Mentioned on your previous videos check out Brad petterson and the juju swing on KZread

Great point about fan club vs real club and losing feel and timing. ESPN Sports Science has proven that with many different sports including with a pro golfer and weighted clubs for practice swings. Athletes should train with the tools of their sport that they would use in competition without added weights or other gadgets. Every time a baseball player practice swings with a weighted donut or multiple bats he is only ruining his at bat feel and timing. Strength and speed should be built with physical exercises and your standard use club, racket, bat, etc. and not with weighted tools of the sport one is in.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Yep.. this is real world stuff.. practice with what you use. I wasted a whole year learning this lesson... painful.

It’s really not that confusing. The body is held in reserve to give a player something to turn and accelerate with from impact to the finish. There’s a great video of Mac telling a student that the hips are stabilizers that don’t fire until impact and beyond. I think the real key is that fat black bag that he keeps hitting against. Watch Brendan pick it up. It’s heavy. This is a repetition and feel type method that produces the positions people lust after. I suspect that John isn’t going to have you posing in a mirror and holding the swing at certain spots, but rather actively swinging, feeling, building and strengthening. To that end I’d bet that things get clearer once he introduces some drills. Right now this is the forward. I don’t think we’ve even reached the table of contents. Everyone is trying to jump to the summary imoho.

@ngascoigne

2 жыл бұрын

Correct. John has multiple impact bag drill for all these key moves, students do thousands of reps. Strength is required.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

You are correct... it's a process like anything else really worth learning. There are other parts to the puzzle... transition, hand attitudes, weight transfer, ball placement and rotating plane or base lines to suit.

@ianrichards1839

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure Hi John. I’m very attracted to this way of ball striking not least because I have a naturally short back swing. I’ve adopted Bradleys approach to the short game and I’m getting a clean crisp contact around the green that I’ve never had before. However I’m 69 with a lower back/SI joints that do a lot of complaining and I’m wondering whether the shoulder and torso rotation through and post impact is going to put too much pressure on my body. However you and Bradley suggest that most of the work is done by the forearms. Can you advise?

To discuss this properly, find John's forum. 60 thousand posts on the subject.

I've been doing this move like forever. Compression is awesome. But soon you can over do it and you'll find yourself going left then more left. Then you'll be hitting down so much you'll be digging trenches. So be careful.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

This would not happen for an ABS student. The Module 6 makes sure the entry flat and shallow and the slotting of the club through transition also prevents this.. Further more the ball position and rotating plane lines keep the divots shallow like bacon strips... (Moe)

@MichaelShinosky

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure Where do you recommend ball position?

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelShinosky It depends upon so many things. This is fully covered in our Module 9 class. Ball position can vary depending upon a golfers angle of attack, lowpoint, shot shape, P3 entry, post impact rotational thrust, lie angles.. I generally don't promote lining up at right angles to an imposed target line.... because an advanced striker can shape the ball in the air... so no reason to be bound by that ideology. It's not advantageous to be bound by that kind of thinking when playing the game at a high level of competency. Again, what we teach is an advanced level of ball striking.. it's not just grip stance and posture, turn back and through and call it a day.

@MichaelShinosky

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure That's what I was thinking. Anthony Kim said his ball position varied day to day. Does he employ this same technique? Also Tiger back in mid 2000's seems to have been using this same type of hitters mentality.

@darbyguns4906

Жыл бұрын

Excellent point! Lee Comeaux has been preaching same thing don’t need to line up hips shoulders knees feet etc at rt angles to target as it is irrelevant to high level strikers

If anybody has enough knowledge, how much of this overlaps with Mike Austin's swing style?

@anthonymassaro2394

Жыл бұрын

Not the same. John very much promotes a no release type swing driven by the pivot. gradual acceleration.. no flipping

@Chartacus_

Жыл бұрын

@@anthonymassaro2394 ty for the reply

I’m trying that forearm roll but I’m duck hooking why? Thanks

@ngascoigne

2 жыл бұрын

Because you aren't accelerating the left shoulder post impact.

@joecalvacca3195

2 жыл бұрын

@@ngascoigne left shoulder around up ?

@BenjiBoy15

2 жыл бұрын

Accelerate faster to the left side.. get it to go right first.. hit a impact bag

@chrisharbert8333

2 жыл бұрын

ganksas teaches this forearms rotation first then once you can hook the ball he adds in the body rotation to square the face

Love the old skool swings, Snead, Hogan, Byron. I admire Erickson’s pursuit of the truth, but this release doesn’t follow when paired with the modern ball of today. . . There’s a reason why players in that time released the club shallow left. The modern solid core less spinny golf ball forced swings to evolve into what you see today. It’s a different game today and we have to understand why.

He’s figured out Hogan’s swing. Not saying his “secret.” The five bands of steel handshake and the three right hands. It looks like George Knudsen’s swing too.

Different strokes for different folks. I like Dr. Kwon's teaching method better. When you master the sequence he teaches this all falls into place automatically.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

I am pretty sure Dr Kwon doesn't understand or fully grasp the difference between hitting and swinging. I looked at a few of his videos and it's clear as day he is only teaching the swinging camp. I will probably meet with him at some point and I'll explain to him what is going on... then he can test it and confirm this is in fact two ways of doing things. He'll get it... He does understand the error of many modern teachers who promote an early unwinding of the torso rotation from the top. Glad to see he figured that out. Dr Kwon and I would have a very interesting and informative conversation. Maybe Brendon could set that up at some point.

Turn the "SCREW" from the top!

David Duval had a super strong grip that everyone told him would never work. He swung across the ball and his club face went square for 18". I tried it and started hitting 180yd 8irons, huge smash factor.

I think better verbiage would be John is creating shaft flex not holding or releasing shaft flex

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Would not use the term releasing because I never want to feel I am releasing anything... holding pressure all the way is the intention. If I drop something (not holding anymore) I am releasing... so don't like that imagery in the golf swing.

@chrisharbert8333

2 жыл бұрын

how does the hit and hold drill compare to this type of release? you can create a lot of stress on the shaft with that drill which in my experience creates center impact more often than not

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@chrisharbert8333 Not sure exactly what the hit and hold drill you are referring to. Best not to comment if I don't know for certain what I would be commenting on.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@chrisharbert8333 Sure thing...

Hitting, is more sofisticated than swinging. Switting, is more sophisticated, than hitting 😊

I really dig the channel, awesome to hear all these theories, meet all these guru’s, etc… BUT you must be the most confused golfer on the planet. I get confused when I’m really trying to take in Dr. Keon, milo lines, Mike Malaska, now this dude. Can you actually play golf or are you playing “golf swing”? That’s my problem… no fun playing golf SWING.

@factual6591

2 жыл бұрын

He's searching, take advantage of that

@swisstrader

2 жыл бұрын

Find what works for YOU!

The idea that you can actively rotate your left forearm at the bottom of the swing to generate power sets off many alarm bells. If you take the premise that removing "timing" out of impact creates a more stable club-head and thus better impact conditions, then you should absolutely not be trying to hit the golf ball with what is ostensibly a top spin tennis backhand with a longer lever arm and a smaller target. As technology has caught up with the science/mechanics of the golf swing, time and again it has demonstrated that feel is almost never real. Look at the last few minutes of this video, John is practicing his acceleration into the bag with very little forearm rotation. If he was actually actually trying to accelerate his forearm rotation the back of his left wrist and hence the club-face would end up facing the ground after impact. It seems to me that golf instructors who are a bit esoteric with their teachings or swing thoughts are always the ones that belittle modern technology and refuse to measure and hence prove that their feels are real. Another one that springs to mind is when Steve Elkington teamed up with Martin Ayers, if you want to see golf teaching that promotes a belief that has absolutely nothing to do with facts, then look those videos up. I f John believes in what he is teaching then he should go and see Dr Kwon and get measured using the body sensors, until then this will always sound like a confused mess of a golf theory.

@Matt-lu7vx

2 жыл бұрын

Spot on!

@temporarystranger95

2 жыл бұрын

I think what John would say in response is that the left forearm rotation stops at impact. He does not continue to rotate the left forearm, post impact, that would lead to left forearm supination (left forearm facing upward). If so, you are correct, the club would have extreme face rotation, and the strike would be timing-dependent. He does not mention it in this video, but he advocates “hooking” into the ball but “cutting” out of it. You cannot “cut” out of the swing, post impact, if you supinate the left forearm. He wants “torso rotation” post impact rather than forearm rotation. That would be my guess how he would reply to your insightful post. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

@aau240

2 жыл бұрын

@@temporarystranger95, again the reality of what's going on is far from the feel unless you measure the data. Ridiculous to believe that after so actively and strongly supinating your left wrist to impact that you then have the timing or ability to stop the forearm rotation to zero. Even if you could achieve this move it would create unsustainable shearing forces in the lower arm and lots of injuries. I approach this from having played golf for 40 years and taught biomechanics and sports injury management at a University for 30 years.

@C02045

2 жыл бұрын

@@aau240 Absolute agreement. There must be a change in the track and velocity of the club head to allow release of the forces stored within the shaft.

@aau240

2 жыл бұрын

@Steven Dedrick I'm actually agreeing with you , back to feel isn't real, he may be teaching aggressive forearm rotation but that's not what he is doing when he is doing the drill at around 13 minutes.

It feels like Mike Bender’s teaching

How in the heck are you supposed to execute three moves in the downswing?

@mudddge

Жыл бұрын

Skillz

Am I the only person wondering how much of a drop off is it off that deck?😅

@davidgarretson7059

2 жыл бұрын

And I’m trying to figure out why Brendan has his hat on backwards 😀

Let's see ya hit one ole timer.

Interesting that he didn’t mention any power, etc coming from legs (apart from a brief mention)

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

ABS students have very tired legs.. believe me!

@ironsideeve2955

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure hi john, thanks for taking the time to go through stuff with BBG. What i meant was that you didnt ever mention pushing off feet/legs(unless i missed it)… just thought that this would be very important

@ocat1979

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure still use my piece of timber a got when doing the drill series with Brad. His fancy downunder board is too expensive haha

Henry Cotton taught this a gillion yrs ago. Good stuff still.

@williampanje6623

2 жыл бұрын

Yes remember hit the tire drill

This is kind of the opposite of what The Pro by Dan Martin teaches you. Swinger v hitter.

The concept of a sense of delayed acceleration is interesting and one l have never really heard talked about. It makes me think of Rahm's swing. But l think the shaft flex description he talks about is a fallacy. The shaft at impact is actually concave not convex. Although it may be a mind's eye approach that may work. I kept waiting for them to HIT A BALL! Not to be in this video...

This is what Bender teaches the bent left wrist

I always try to picture someone like Collin Morikawa or Tiger watching these videos and then sitting back and cracking up. Something tells me they and most other pros stay far far away from all the Mac O’Grady, Bradley or other stuff out there. Starts to feel like some secret cult of hidden video tapes and writings, throw in some Golfing Machine and Hogan references and then sprinkle in a bit of mumbo jumbo and speak in cryptic ways such that people stay just engaged enough to be forever searching for the holy grail that never really existed.

@Chris_Traynor

2 жыл бұрын

Took the words outta my mouth 👍🏻 Well said

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

Tiger has spend many hours studying the details of the golf swing.. and has even admitted to not ever feeling like he "owns" his golf swing. If you can just grip it and rip it... then nothing wrong there. If you seek to improve, you might have to look for answers outside of your own confines. Just like anything else. I do everything I can to teach using simple terms.. unlike Mac O, I never try to talk over or through people. It's good to understand swing concepts.. so you can fix yourself at some point. There are terminologies that need to be learned. If you ever took a math class in school, you would know there are definitions to describe things. Not sure how math could be learned without terminologies attached to concepts.. particularly geometry.

@Chris_Traynor

2 жыл бұрын

@@lagpressure just to clarify I’m loving your insights and do seek to continuously improve. I was simply agreeing that the ‘marketing’ of cryptic secrets is tiresome and damaging but personally love learning all sorts of different perspectives whilst staying objective. Really enjoying your thoughts. When I began I worked through ‘Hogans 5’ in the way he suggested and have learnt different stuff since but always gravitated back towards hogan’s book when feeling lost. Look forward to more videos.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chris_Traynor Not really any marketing going on here... I was just contacted by Brendon who was in contact with one of our ABS pros down in Singapore who thought it would be good for BBG to discuss ABS on their platform. I think Brendon has done a very good job of editing and putting out the content. I think he shot about 5 hours of material.. so of course not all of that is going to be posted here I assume. If you are more interested in ABS, then feel free to visit our site there.. that is where the content is. There are a few things on youtube and instagram, but we prefer to manage our own content without the potential for disruptions etc from the bigger mainstream platforms. We will never be as big, but that is ok. Just want to have the stuff available for golfers who want more from their instruction. We are not a band aid approach. Plenty of teachers for that style on every corner. I felt there was actually a need for advanced ball striking instruction for better players.

mike austin hand action

I'm into this method but sometimes I just believe in taking divots.

@lagpressure

2 жыл бұрын

I prefer taking divots over hitting balls. If I am taking consistent divots with the look and shape I desire... then when I put a ball in the way.. I don't need an other point of confirmation.. it's time to go pin hunting...!