The Ford Dagenham/Dorset/Dovers and also the Perkins 6.354 are historically important engines. They were the global 6bt's of the 1960/70's and they were powering the industrial world nearly 2 decades before the 6BT even left the draftsmans office 👍

@jhoncho4x4

3 ай бұрын

I have a 1960's Perkins 6.354T in an IH truck. Very similar to the 6bt; the 6bt turbo bolts in place and is a slight upgrade.

@hughjarse4627

3 ай бұрын

Dpa’s on the 6354’s used to fill the sumps up for fun with diesel and then rev to the moon

@deezelfairy

3 ай бұрын

@@hughjarse4627 Yeah, the CAV rotary pumps were the weak link in pretty much every engine that had them 😂 They weren't the best, pretty fragile and very fussy on fuel quality.

@jhoncho4x4

3 ай бұрын

The Rotary Fuel Pump and accessories like starter were swapped from CAV to Delphi components for the American market. I neglect the system as much as possible, and it keeps working without complaints. If it sits for a long time, I prime fuel pump by hand to speed starting. I keep a 5/16" wrench in the cab to tighten injectors when one vibrates loose and pressure drops. From what I have seen on Australian videos, pumps + injectors can be rebuilt on a work bench by hand with basic hand tools and a seal kit. The way I look at it, if third world countries like them and they survive there for decades; then it's a reliable design.

@hughjarse4627

3 ай бұрын

@@jhoncho4x4 cav is Delphi they just changed the name…

Im in the USA and I have 2 of the 450hp sabre diesels in my 35’ combat boat coupled to dowty jet drives, shes an absolute beast, i agree, they are a smoky sob when cold, but a couple quick revs after building oil pressure and they clear right up.

@teamgonzo9289

3 ай бұрын

P T Boat???

@mitchcardosi92

2 ай бұрын

Mk2 combat support boat, basically the newer equivalent of the vietnam era pbr patrol boats

Ford pulled out of the truck market and there was a merger with Iveco, this was the reason that production of the Dover engine series stopped. Production did move to the Ford Otosan plant in Turkey, no issues with getting the engines or spares but newer engines were coming along and development of the engine family stopped, this also happened just as emission regs started to come in. The Ford Dorset and Dover engines are great, very simple and engineered right from the start. I would put them above the B series. I used to work for the main distributor and then importer for the engines, Hendy Power. We did all sorts with them, convert them to run on gas for CHP, modified for high outputs and different builds for so many different applications. Think you’ll find there are quite a few modifications inside the engine, including different main bearing caps. Not sure of it will have chrome liners. Think you’ll find the BSD range was Basildon Small Diesel, mainly used for tractors and later renamed New Holland. Quite a heavy engine but also good work horse.

We made 450 flywheel hp from a 2704ETP 6 litre version of this motor about 5 years ago. Extremely solid block and head design. And sound amazing.

I bought one in the UK and will be shipping it to the USA . I plan on installing it in a Fordson Major that my father bought from the UK in the 70’s . The guy had 2 of them when I bought mine .

@zopEnglandzip

3 ай бұрын

Think the fordson majors had Perkins built fords in em, I'm sure you've seen the vids on here of folk slipping the 504 v8's in. Good luck anyway sounds like a fun project.

How perfect that you mention Gale Banks when talking about turbo diesels...as that has been his prime focus for a long time now.

@JosephArata

3 ай бұрын

He hasn't innovated anything for 20 years, stop riding his dick. He's a marketeer not an actual engineer or scientist.

Amazing power output from one of those old Ford engines, an engine which has its roots in the 1950s Fordson Major tractors!! With a sump and front engine mounting plate modifications, one of those beauties wold bolt straight into an old Major! Now THAT would be nice👌🏻👌🏻👍🏻👍🏻😁

@nickthompson9697

3 ай бұрын

A monster at the pulls.

Very nice. Pal of mine recently sold his 1960 fairy sports boat. He had removed 2x Perkins P6 and shoehorned in, 2x Sabre 6 cylinder fords, at 280 hp each ,20 years ago. He had bought the engines at a navy auction. 1 had 50 hours, the other was new in the box. Lovely note off them. As a late friend of mine once muttered while listening to them, sex is alright, but you can't beat the real thing!

Very cool never heard of that one before but now that I have, it’s gonna be hard to sleep tonight

Something tells me a 3 intercooler setup will soon be available for a 606

@grapsorz

Ай бұрын

one good modern dual stage will do the job as the two single stange on this one.

There was a Dover gas engine too, gas as in natural gas/methane. Had different pistons and higher temperature valves and seats. I worked on one at a time. It had the marine exhaust manifold and water heat exchanger for heat recovery into an industrial heating system, forming a chp, combined heat and power genset. Plugs where in the approximate position of the diesel injectors.

@deezelfairy

3 ай бұрын

Yup, seen a couple in forklifts over the years running on propane. Perkins did similar with some of their engines too.

@mattydare

2 ай бұрын

I live near a gypsum mine and I'm sure they used to run Ford propane trucks underground too.

Love this stroll down memory lane, I did my apprenticeship on the old cargo, ended up a L10 specialist and then left to work on daffs

In the 80’s they still loved the 2 stroke diesels in the US in bigger boats. I looked at 53’ Hatteras and it had twin 8 V71 Detroits in it.

@malcolmyoung7866

3 ай бұрын

Cool stuff!!

@Soundsofthewood

Ай бұрын

I work on them daily. Very simple engines to work on. Many people are tired of them, but they will go to regret the newer stuff when they start to go bad.

I'm not gonna speak for the whole country, but this American is well aware of the Ford diesels, particularly the Brazilian ones. The problem eith them, and specifically swapping them is simply lack of supply, and next to zero aftermarket support ( here at least..) versus something like the B model Cummins. You can literally buy ANYTHING for a Cummins here with a quick trip online or service parts at numerous local dealers. Furthetmore, if someone wanted to be "different", there are similar size engines that are even MORE suitable for tuning available here, like the International DT360, or the Isuzu 6BD1. Both are capable of SERIOUS power with little mods. Edit, I have worked on similarly tuned Brazilian Fords like the Sabre here in thr US in sport fishing Yachts, though I cannot for the life of Me remember who marinized and tuned them, it could have been Sabre ( it's been 30+ years since I've seen one..)

@afzaalkhan.m

3 ай бұрын

Not a American , but a brit -uk

@jhoncho4x4

3 ай бұрын

I have a 1960's 5.8 Perkins 6.354T in an International Loadstar truck in Ohio. I have to get my little bits from overseas (cold start assist); millions made worldwide, nobody ever heard of them here. Looks like the 6bt's hd grandpa; Perkins still runs great, works all day without complaints, and uses little fuel.

@boostaddict_

3 ай бұрын

​@@jhoncho4x4We used to have a 6.354 without a turbo in a square body GMC 2500. 8ft bed, 4 doors. Geared it up a bunch so it would do highway speeds, that truck would pull down a house and it got 30mpg. Great engines.

@stevecarlisle3323

3 ай бұрын

It looks to me, to be a Brazilian Ford

@robertjones4678

3 ай бұрын

We use them in fordson majors for tractor pulling most are modified standard Dorset and Dover engines but know of two that came out of speed boats with twin turbos one with the majormec pump and one with a Bosch pump cost a lot of money I believe.

Really interesting video! Great breakdown of the how, when and why side of these motors.

Great stuff. As a young boy I rebuilt one of these engines from a D series Ford truck. 2014 model. 140hp turbo and like you said lying on its side. The turbo was a weird setup because of this and was it smokey in the morning. It set me up in my career as a mechanic and now truck driver. Thanks for this wonder video.

Really enjoyed learning about these, thanks man !

I love old cool stuff like this , I’ll never forget ten years ago when I found out gale banks and Pontiac did transams off the dealer floor 455cube turbo things making upto 700hp with a warranty …In the 80s !!! Same category as this , guys in the 80s weren’t silly . Cubes , air density , fuel and boost !

I had a 1992 Ford CF7000 (Ford Cargo in Europe and UK) with a 5.9 Cummins (even had Ford stamped in the rocker covers). I've only ever seen one parts truck within a 1000 miles of me with a Dover variant. I think ford, being a typical American bean counting company, just used the Brazilian cab on US frame rails and axels. I do believe the marinized and New Holland variant floats around every once in a while, but car/truck guys are never thinking that far out of the box.

Hi, I grew up with these Ford 2700 range engines. I had 2 in my boat too.

There's an ancient NA D series powering the fire systems pump in Cavaghan & Grays Carlisle factory. It gets run up on weekly iirc tests and still behaves perfectly and sounds beautiful to this day. It's got to have been there since the 70's at least 🙂

Hello from the South West USA. Those early Ford diesels are not widely known over here, and hard to come by nowadays, sadly. Even the smaller Detroit V series. I am thrilled to see you guys keep up your great work. Hopefully for decades to come.

Yep, when you gotta have it you gotta have it and keeping the history and heritage around is important, same as guys do with the trucks etc, I've got an old Ford Trader with dorset engine and i remember those boats from 80s when i was an apprentice but never knew those wete the engines, great stuff and keep it up, air density has ALWAYS been King not just because someone still shitting yellow just learned about it like you see on a lot of channels, love following your content from OZ

This guy is great, diesel fuel is running through his veins. Extremely knowledgeable.

That’s cool Luke…. Definitely want to hear it running. 👍🏻

In 1989 I worked for Cougar marine in the UK we put two of those in an old experimental mono hull we had in the back of the shop for a plumber … it was called “ Flippin heck” … There was a doco made of it . I do remember that to start it you had to pump petrol into it at start up as the compression was too low until the twin turbos wound up…! Smoke !! Greenies would hit a green apple!! 😂 It went well enough..

Awesome video! Love the history lesson with the British English! Kind regards from Pennsylvania!

loved the vid as always, class !

As a Californian surprised to hear you mention Banks Power. My 1990 Cummins had all the Banks as well as my current 2007 6.7l Cummins. Was an Operation Engineer running Cats but saw the concrete mixer drivers whip those Cummins like a rented mule but you couldn't kill them. Running joke is Dodge is just the shipping crate for the Cummins. It's nick named the million mile motor. Very rarely does anyone swap a PowerStroke or Duramax into another vehicle. It's almost 100% Cummins into ??? There's cheaper diesel performance products but Banks has CARB, California Air Resource Board approval certification & don't want ANY beef with CARB! Gave my 1990 Cummins to my son, truck looks like ____, odometer broke at 800,000+ & have now idea how many miles she has but still purrs like a kitten. Love your 0M606 videos here in the Wild Wild West.

Sadly modern engines aren't build like this anymore 😢 Great video though😊

Love your enthusiasm,

From USA. I own a couple Perkins 4 cylinders. Great engines. I’ve ran a couple 6.6L Brazilian Fords in F700 or F800’s. I hear they blow up. Never owned one. My F700 and F800 have 5.9L and 8.3L Cummins both Bosch ppumped.

What a legend Luke and the engine

I used to follow powerboat racing back in the day and always remember 'fresh N Clean' but she was ANYTHING but! Cool to see these old engines

I wanna hear it run now 😅 whens it going on the dyno?

Great content and nice to see something different, these old mechanical engines are so underrated and so appealing especially for boat applications, if you are planning on doing a dyno session I have a Seatek I can bring down as I would love to see what injectors and pump tweaks will do to the power levels.

This is so sick! We have a 70's D series as a farm truck here in Australia and it is sooooo slow

Can wait to see what the beauty this gets to sit in

From U.S.: Great content very interesting engine you got over there in Britain. So far as I can tell the reason we aren't using these Ford engines is because they are not here. We put International and Cummins engines that are light enough and compact enough to fit in our pickups. It gets pretty hard to fit a diesel that is longer or taller than a Cummins B-series. If the weight is over 1,100lb and the dimensions are much larger than a Cummins B-series I personally would only consider one for my heavy trucks (1.5/2 ton). This is a very cool engine and would love to be able to find one here. I once had a Cummins B-series that had its rotary style fuel pump rebuilt by a chap in Canada who built Cummins engines for offshore racing. Little 5.9l at around 45lbs of boost made almost 1,200lb/ft to the wheels. Had a 7.3 International V-8 turned up to similar power levels in a Ford. Very curious what your 6.8 I-6 weighs and its dimensions.

Excellent video

Next video would be great to hear it running 😊

this has been my shed for the last 10 years the twin about with the altnator on it , we ran it up the smoke is still in the shed !

The lineage is as follows. Ford built the 4-cylinder petrol (200CID) and diesels (220CID) that were fitted to trucks and tractors from 1952 to 1957. In 1957 a 6-cylinder 330 CID was added, fitted to Thames Trader trucks, the industrial version was the 590E "Dagenham". In 1962 they were updated with a Minimec injector pump. In 1965 the 2700E or Dorset, as fitted to D series trucks was introduced, 240CID, 330CID, 360CID. Around 1968 the 330 was dropped when the 360T and 380 were introduced in 1968. The Dover, or 2720 engines were introduced with the introduction of the Ford Cargo truck in the early 1980s. The turbo versions were the 2726T, 2726TM (Marine). and 2728TM.

@ianmangham4570

3 ай бұрын

Lineage

Interesting video - thanks again for great content.. Particularly the compund arrangement ! 😄 Many moons ago I used to work at Lister Petter in the R&D department. One of our jobs was to carry out durability testing (mostly 1000 hrs) on engines that were being 'badged'. You might already know that these engines were badged by Listers in both NA and TURBO format and fuelling was mostly set up for running genset applications at 1500 rpm. Occasionally - Lister marine department used to sell the odd marinised version (variable speed) which might be a useful source of spare sparts for you ?? I think it was called a CST6 - but this was over 30 years ago and my brain has dried up.... Sadly the Lister badged Dover got the chop when the IVECO / new Holland tractor thing kicked in and they switched to an Italian version, which was also available in 3,4 or 6 cylinder variants.. Love the channel .... and your work and the fact you give a shit about the Uk still producing some quality kit.. Hopefully when I have some budget, i want to purchase some of your fuel pump kit for compounding my OM 605... Keep it up ! Thanks

I'm as old as that engine is and I have never seen one the only straight 6 diesels I know about are the very popular the Mercedes and the Cummins I didn't even know Ford made a straight 6 diesel very cool video I'm from Ohio USA

This bad boy sounds insane!

Thanks for a great history trip when the uk made world beating engines and engineering

I had a fairey Huntsman 28 which I restored from the ground up. It came with a pair of Ford Sabre 225hp dorsets, which at some point had been underwater (allegedly the last owner had run her aground on Ryde sands, and when the tide came in she sank). They ran perfectly nicely, but when cold smoked like b4stards - someone in the boatyard said it looked like the chimney from the vatican when they're trying to elect a new pope... I pulled them out and stuck in a pair of intercooled cummins 6bta's, which ran like clockwork, and didn't make so much as a puff of smoke. The Fords were sold to two different buyers, who bought them because they couldn't get spares for their existing Sabres, which spoke volumes, really. I believe the Dovers are slightly easier in respect of spares than the Dorsets, but most owners I know who opt for a repower, in the 180-300hp range, go for Cummins, Iveco or Perkins 215's.

BOM needs this to get their bus going 😮😮

@boatbloke6701

3 ай бұрын

They threw their Dover out to put some 4 cylinder thing in!

@DC_DC_DC_DC

3 ай бұрын

I've been so bored of their content... Hope they quickly get back to the escargot

Can´t wait to see it on a dyno. Cool stuff!

Oh man, a ford in a ford would be sweet. I knew a fellow that swapped the american tractor engine version (401 cu in, 6.6 l, i believe) into an old ford truck, and that was pretty cool. I have never heard of the sabre line, but never underestimate ford in doing ridiculous things!

We had a version of this engine it came 6.6 and 7.8 liters in the States Ford new Holland diesel

actually very cool... love an old derv

Looks like the 80s medium duty "Brazil" in the US

Great vid and very interesting. 🧐👌🇬🇧

I really enjoyed this video information the only problem I have for video is you only have one engine but there is always tomorrow for another 3😅

The Dorset 360t was notorious for head gasket issues, I would be intrigued to know what Sabre did to keep the lid on the 630hp version. The fatal floor of the Dorset 360 was cracking on the lower left hand side of the cylinder block. This was remedied in the later Dover versions with external webbing.

I have a couple of 6 litres 225hp in my boat. One is 1986 and one is 1992, both Dover and marinised by Sabre. They run well and dont smoke from cold. Minimec pumps. They are tough pushrod engines, no belts no chains and i can get all the parts... no need to change them

This is the og Ford diesels got 2 4 banger mermaids in a boat, but this Sabre in my cape boat would be minty, got like 10 dover/dorset/Leman/senator diesels too the 6poppers Nearly indestructible, just gotta watch that oil feed line from the oil pressure side of the oil pump to the fuel injection pump

Rolls Royce were probably the first company to do inter cooling between two compressor stages, with the Merlin. Stanley Hooker's excellent book "Not much of an engineer" talks about the development of the concept. Because the large X-24 cylinder Vulture was failure, the humble V12 Merlin needed to be a lot better at high altitude to fill the same role.......and thus a Merlin blower was boosted by a Vulture blower, cast as one housing with the inter cooler between them. However, that Marathon engine with 3 inter cooling stages must be unique in engines.

Interesting video, never knew those engines existed in that form, Definitely ripe for fitment in an old fordson major for tractor pulling, may be an issue keepinp enough cool water going through those intercoolers !! I stand corrected but I was always under the assumption that the BSD engines were made at Basildon tractor factory as they were used extensively in Ford tractors of the time

I like everything about this

Was hoping to hear it go!

So yeah I’ve never seen one of those. Back then we got the gutless IDIs that once running after a large amount of ether felt like they could run indefinitely. Ya know Luke I am getting ready to build an old school F600, for daily use. Lol. That would look very nice in between the frame rails mated to a Eaton/Fuller 10 speed, again for daily use. Very cool engine!!!

@mattbolton2959

3 ай бұрын

If the IDI's have a good IP and working glow plug's (most don't) they'll bust off with a flip of the key if there isn't air in the fuel lines. Had a '86 E-350 (Econoline) Camper van with the 6.9 and it was a delight, I thought it had decent power for what it was all things said. Considering the weight and that it's N/A.

We yanked a ford dover/dorset turbo fire pump from a paper mill i worked at in nz, it's probably still in the parts yard, out in the open with no cover, full of rain.

Your obviously at bit in to boats ? Think it needs to go in a boat !😊 love it.

I do love a Ford desiel tdci I can tottaly understand that enthusiasm may god and jesus bless you

The dyno cell where this was tested is still in Ferndown, still in the same factory (now owned by CAT)

@iainball2023

3 ай бұрын

Would love to know a bit more about that !

Love it Luke, when are you swapping it into something, i for one would live to see you do something silly with it

This is seriously cool

I love High performance diesels and the Brits are good at it, along with likes of the Deltics and others. This is new to me, the Ford thing is what caught my attention For Us Americans its the likes of Detroit, Powerstrokes and Cummins.

You can still find these engines in some of the military boats used for setting up bridges for the army. The Arsenal that I worked at still ran them and when they would refurbish them they'd have these engines rebuilt and stuffed back into them.

Got the itch to fit one in my ford 7910 pulling tractor now…😁🚜💨

Ok... Been watching your channel for ages... Been wanting the Merc 606 upgrade for ages but we don't get that model here.... But it's nice to dream.... Now...this video reminded me of my 100hour old ford mermaid 4 cylinder... Pure low down power.... Wondering about the possibility of upgrading it to 200hp. All mechanical ..... Act quite excited. Wonder if this could work..

In the USA a very popular 18 wheeler engine is a Detroit series 60 almost no one knows but there are numerous engines call the Detroit series 50 it's a giant 4 cylinder they put in buses and short trucks would love to get a hold of one of these

Caterpillar bought Perkins diesel as well. I work on boats, and when we have to have crankshafts repaired on perkins, we have to ship them to the caterpillar machine shop in England.

Ford continued making diesels in the uk through the nineties at Basildon under the new Holland brand the 4 cylinder 4.4 and the 6 cylinder 6.6 and 7.5 litre powerstar engines were some of the best engines to come out of the nineties although primarily for agriculture some did find there way into gensets and boats

I have the Ford Mermaid 4cylinder diesel of the same family of engines. Someone stole the turbo but ....i still have the engine and the intercooler.... Brittish built legend

That was great.

US and UK did lots of turbocharging and supercharging research during the war to compensate for altitude and increasing horsepower. The published papers on the tests and results are very interesting, if it can be found. They broke it down to a science, no more guessing.

OK! perhaps a rehab and a dyno run? As well as modernizing it a bit with better intercooler cores and maybe some fettling to make it make more power and less smoke at the same boost levels??? This can be a wonderful video series... Also love to see what youve developed the BMW 57's

saw a d series in a range rover at the royal show in late seventies ,was a very tight fit .bet it went well !!!

That boat sounds mega!!! 😂

i used to have the ( mis ) fortune to be paid to drive a Ford Cargo car transporter ... ooh how much better would life had been with 1 turbo & 1 inter-cooler ?? .... thanks for the history lesson Luke

The Ford Dover engine in its Cargo truck application was only good for turning diesel into noise and smoke. Nice to see someone do something useful with it.

that thing is cool asf.

We use them in fordson majors for tractor pulling most are modified standard Dover and Dorset engines two I know of came out of power boats fitted with twin turbos one with the majormec pump and one fitted with a Bosch pump cost a lot of money I believe. Can be seen at Welland steam rally.

Rather interesting engine. I haven't personally seen any 6 cyl ford diesels in the US, with the exception of stuff like 590E tractor engines. A shame really. The 6.9 IDI started in 82' as I recall, and basically everything that needed a diesel got a variant of the Navistar v8. I've found those in everything from F250s to three yard dump trucks and school buses. A few in the US build the old IDIs for performance but very they're a rare breed.

Put a turbo'd Dover in mates fordson super major. Had to stand it upright modify the sump and fabricate a new oil pickup. Great fun to drive.

nice, start it for us🤩

Very enjoyable video, didcearly years on the “slant six” D series , nice motors , Sabre were a company who had the rep of doing it one way , most correctly with the most practical power, an old friend from ultimate street bike days went to the USA long ago , a friend over there had two RIVA wooden speedboats , one was good and one was for “spares” ….a deal was struck and the spares boat now sports a jag v12 and is faster , keep em Cummin… Would it be remiss to mention the off shore powerboats of the same period , maybe a little later with the Kevlar/carbon hulls ….a plant fitter mate blagged his way on to a well known British race boat crew , came home with wide eyed tales of the Italians with a fleet or artics and a hi ab ….Kevlar hull x2 , 1 Lamborghini engine,two Lamborghini engines, three Lamborghini engines,four Lamborghini engines etc . Good money says that sabre don’t get anywhere near that mantelpiece 😂

Don't underestimate the lag! They had a very complex lock-up torque converter system to get them on boost in a race boat.

hugs from brazil

I had a 30ft launch single screw with the 180hp turbo after cooled engine. 1.5:1 velvet drive. She done 18knts at 2450rpm. 600 odd hp would have crazy 😂 and yes i sure did save on cigarettes when she started from cold haha

Proper cool !

Wow so cool

Cummins are very common and there's so many aftermarket parts you can get anywhere over here. if its a swapp you can get adapter kits also. That ford does look cool but parts will be much harder to come by and adapting it also. It does look really long with the turbos set up that way too. How would one run that on the street with those water to air intercoolers, im sure that boat took in lake water to cool those things, did it not?? or did it have a massive cooling tank on board?

All of the engines fitted to the Ford D series engine where actually Perkins engines! Perkins also provided all of the engines for Massey Ferguson and many other companies, But of course had all of the Perkins information removed from them! a very interesting book called "the history of the Perkins Diesel engine company". Was a very interesting book for all of us old diesel engine nerds. Sadly long out of print.

will you put vids on this (tuning it running ect)

Hey good find what about a car diesel or suv engine imported this is perfect video do more of more engines