This is by far your best video, side-splitting. I can’t believe the hairsplitting editing you did …kudos, but do me a favor throw away that horrid green stained T-shirt that color comes with a jail sentence. it is against the law to wear that color in public Ew. Now, if you would only spend as much time at the keyboard, as you do, doodling with your videos …aw, good luck at your concert break a leg!

@tonebasePiano

8 ай бұрын

Thank you. The stains are meant to symbolize the wrong notes that "stain" the passage in question.

@dale731

8 ай бұрын

Supposedly Beethoven said that to make a mistake is unimportant but to play without passion is unforgivable.

@bluedoggo483

8 ай бұрын

oh my god i laughed so hard agahaha

@AnibalPacaco

7 ай бұрын

Amazing detail. Such keen sense of hearing. Congrats!

@lavietzion4388

26 күн бұрын

We all can learn a lesson on revenge from tonebase pinning this comment

It doesn't matter if you make mistakes, it does matter if you don't keep going on with the performance. ❤

@cameronpeterson1175

8 ай бұрын

I am really impressed with how people stitch together their mistakes with something very believable. They just keep going and make it up.

This video reminded of what my piano teacher taught me years ago which was "don't bumble around trying to fix mistakes, act all natural and move on".

I had a chance to watch Mikhail Pletnev rehearse this concerto last year in Jūrmala. He would repeat this passage again and again and again during the breaks, and I remember thinking "wow this is so weird, why would he be so obsessed with these few notes". Makes so much more sense now 😂

Professional pianists hit wrong notes. It's okay to hit wrong notes. What matters is how you respond to that. Thank you for talking openly about that. I feel a sense of relief.

As someone with anxiety issues, this video made it sky rocket! My deepest admiration to those who pull through playing live

@user-nj9ru4ef2w

8 ай бұрын

now you just need to book a performance of rach 2 at carnegie hall

@awakenwithoutcoffee

7 ай бұрын

@@user-nj9ru4ef2w well those that can do have the skill. In my journey I noticed my anxiety comes from a lack of skill/too little exposure to success. For every failure you need about 3 wins.

This is why I'm a jazz musician, there are no wrong notes as long as you play with confidence lol

@hawkvandelay

8 ай бұрын

in jazz you're always right until someone tells you you're wrong

@luiginumbers6268

8 ай бұрын

@@hawkvandelayjust say Nuh uh and then you’re right again

@Kazarijyanainoyonamidawa

8 ай бұрын

repetition legitemizes.

@sekazzi

8 ай бұрын

Wrong notes or more spice? Who knows

@trumpetlessons8488

8 ай бұрын

No wrong notes in jazz... Just opportunities

The number of notes in only one of Rachmaninoff's piano concertos is larger than the number of atoms in the visible universe.

I LOVE your channel. For an aging physician who formerly studied piano at the DMA level at a distinguished US conservatory, who has so little opportunity to even maintain my playing ability and repertoire, let alone advance either, your posts are such a lifeline to me both musically and pianistically. Thank you, thank you, thank you, and may success follow you wherever you go! Your ANALYSIS was excellent and is the key to correct performance in my opinion.

@murdo_mck

8 ай бұрын

Maybe you will be inspired by another retired physician kzread.info/dash/bejne/hZejyMmgmaWZnLA.html

I have played this concerto several times and never messed up this passage - but I am impressed by your ability to play the trill so fast with the 3th and 5th fingers haha

This video was a lot of fun--more of this kind of content, please. Experienced pianists thoroughly enjoy comparative analysis of the "greats" and learn much from it.

16:38 Love the connection with hypnosis, since this concerto was dedicated to Rachmaninoff’s psychiatrist who hypnotized him

babe wake up new tonebase video dropped

@kkngd391

8 ай бұрын

Ok

@dalsegno1251

8 ай бұрын

Ugh 🙄 so lame

@zihaoooi787

8 ай бұрын

Holy hell

@mitchellwilliam95

8 ай бұрын

They always sleeping, eh?

Very informative and interesting video! Good luck on Rach. 2, we believe in you 🥰

Man... I had a memory lapse in this precise place while performing this live... I never realized it was such a common phenomenon :D

Dude, spot on as usual 👏 I also think that when the passage returns in Gb the fact it's not an exact transposition can confuse an already-overtaxed memory at this point in the piece...good luck with it!!

I loved this vídeo, as tonebase channel, very nice aspects treated with humour and excellent analysis👏👏👏I hope your rendition can be fine!❤

the editing is sublime

Great content. Who knew those illusive few measure caused so much chaos.

The last movement of Schumann's piano concerto would also be a suitable case for treatment, lots of memory lapses have occurred there, including Adelina de Lara, who fled from the stage in tears in a performance with Landon Ronald, when she messed up the repeat of the third subject. It probably didn't help that the day before in rehearsal the conductor told her that the last three times he had conducted the Schumann concerto, the pianist's memory has failed during the performance. Also the film "Madam Sousatzka" (where Shirley Maclaine plays an eccentric piano teacher) features a scene where her pupil has a memory lapse in the third movement.

@mickizurcher8450

8 ай бұрын

what a thoughtless conductor

Great subject. Yes, I have heard pianists screw this section. It’s so easy to switch train tracks between the 2 occurrences. I got it right when I played the concerto a couple of weeks ago, but I fluffed the 5th chord of the opening, which was a bit of a surprise. I went into a short holding pattern and nobody noticed! My head was still in the previous piece where I was faking harp on keyboard.

@classicallpvault8251

8 ай бұрын

Most people are completely oblivious to mistakes because the level of complexity in a piece like this is outside the scope of their comprehension. I am an amateur pianist and when I play Brahms' Hungarian Dance no.1 on a public piano I occasionally hit the wrong octaved bass or make mistakes in chords in all those large leaps over the keyboard which sound dissonant even to an untrained ear but people genuinely think I am a concert pianist. Because I play the piece in roughly the right tempo and with roughly the right phrasing and dynamics while playing through any mistakes. The bar is really that low and I am not at all surprised that even pros benefit from it.

@NoName-zn1sb

8 ай бұрын

train tracks

amazing video! Super entertaining and informative. Thanks!

Also, it is a very contemplative moment in which it is easy to get lost in the beauty of the sound. Keeping a warm heart and a cold mind is not so easy sometimes. Loved the video, BTW.

Your hairsplitting is entertaining! Thank you! I love all the erroneous versions that don't sound wrong at all!

Like so many of your videos... interesting, entertaining and refreshingly unexpected.

Fantastic video. Very interesting. Thank you

Mega-kudos to Ohlsson for discussing his mistakes in public. My admiration for that man is still soaring.

Love it, more Rach content please

I love how I don't even play piano but I'm always fascinated by discussions like these.

Playing note-perfect is overrated. The greatest recording artist of all time, Alfred Cortot, made mistakes in every recording but they're musically brilliant. Spontaneity = more important than note-perfection. Same for his contemporary, Mark Hambourg. And virtually every pianist from their generation. Striving for note-perfection has robbed the world of many brilliant performances: almost no one dares to take on the Henselt piano concerto, which is purely because almost no one is capable of playing it without making mistakes, hence only super virtuosos like Michael Ponti, Raymond Lewenthal and Marc-André Hamelin have or had it in their repertoire. It was part and parcel of the standard repertoire until the dawn of recording technology ensured that any performer would be unmasked making mistakes or simplifying passages. A wonderful piece of music was lost to obscurity in the process and all we have are a few recordings. If pianists all had the mindset of Cortot they'd just play such a work, knowing that a few wrong notes here and there are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The standard repertoire would be a lot bigger and the music world would greatly benefit from this. I don't want to hear 25 recordings of the Rach 3 for example. I'd much rather hear 25 recordings from a dozen piano concertos from not only Rachmaninoff but also Henselt, Scharwenka, Litolff and the Rubinstein brothers to choose from and only occasionally hear several renditions of the same piece. Even if some of them have mistakes in them. It's interesting to see that people care at all. I have heard several of these performances and it never even occurred to me to go and look for imperfect rendition of specific parts of the score because I just don't care. What matters is the grand scheme of things, not details. Doesn't make this video any less interesting though because we can still take valuable information from analysing something trivial.

@chong2389

8 ай бұрын

I agree. The record companies who splice together perfect Frankenstein performances make audiences expect it in live performances. But other than the rare 'live' recordings, recordings are all most people have. 😢

@sambarker6141

8 ай бұрын

If it sounds good, it's right

@zavilov

8 ай бұрын

Throwing notes under the piano by no means destroy the performance if you make the music convincing and meaningful.

@RaineStudio

8 ай бұрын

Spontaneity is not _always_ better than playing what they guy wrote, dear. It depends on the taste and ability of the performer. And a mistake is just a mistake, even if it is an improvement.

@jakehr3

8 ай бұрын

​@@RaineStudioI think the main point they were trying to make was that if your only concern is with perfection then you run into issues of performers not even trying pieces because they are afraid of failure. That it is better to be spontaneous and roll with the "mistakes" then to just refuse to play a piece because somebody might come along and say you missed the Xth note in the Yth measure of the Zth movement We are human, we make mistakes. Beethoven didn't write the moonlight sonata with the expectation that every performer would play the exact same way every time. Every composer has always understood that there will be variability in performance (either intentional or otherwise). So think of the mistakes as adding to the long narrative of the music to its listeners, rather than as something that needs to be pointed to and shamed over.

I can relate. I'm trying to get through Czerny Opus 599, No 2. I hesitated between describing the feeling of failure and getting the passage wrong as either vertigo, constipation or diaper rash. I usually just belch and carry on. The only one that noticed a mistake is my teacher, and the neighbour's dog.

Ironically, I’ve never had issues here but now I might because I’ll overthink it….

@yuvalavital2357

8 ай бұрын

Same

@VocalEdgeTV

8 ай бұрын

Yes!it’s never crossed my mind. But now…

@VocalEdgeTV

8 ай бұрын

What a niche and fantastic video.

This is just superb!

i really really enjoyed listening to Ushida Tomoharu's playing of the concerto 2 during the 10th Annual hamamatsu tournament he played very nicely

Interesting and fun. Thank you!

The way I recognized my school’s hall in your first example 😅. The first pianist is my classmate and I was able to be at this performance, she’s an amazing pianist!

The inserts of movie are so fun! Thank you

What a little gem!!!

I have never seen a music video so humorous and still educating. Victor Borge meets Leonard Bernstein!

Amazingly fun video! Yet another approach to "solve" memorization issues is to use tools such as grouping, in and out, alignment, and more using the Taubman Approach that I'm studying. It's more about the movement of the body (and some neuroscience) than music theory. I'd like to try this section. I'm impressed how the college student did!

hope this blows up!!! i loved it and it really deserves more attention

Fascinating. I wonder if the opening of Rach 3, also a baby-simple passage, ever creates similar problems.

@tonebasePiano

8 ай бұрын

I think it's a little different. I don't hear pianists botch that theme, probably because it's not sequencing - it more or less stays put. And the chromatic moments are very distinct and harder to forget.

@freakytea2815

8 ай бұрын

I would doubt it, because it's a pretty distinctive (and famous) melody that's easy to sing back. It's also the opening, and people definitely practice openings.

@pineapple7024

8 ай бұрын

The opening of Rach 3 is NOT easy

@georgenorris2657

8 ай бұрын

@@pineapple7024 It´s easier than the opening to the second and third movements!

So awesome!😎 This channel is awesome!😎 Rach is awesome! (However I wish there were more vids on the 4th concerto, my favorite of his concertos.)😎 Ben is awesome!😎 Ohlsson Is awesome!😎 And all the people on here are awesome! 😎 Thank you!

Great video and logical explanations. Regarding memorizing fingering, Georg Solti commented on this problem on his autobiography. I read it years ago, but I think he relates that when he was in exile in Switzerland during World War II, before becoming a conductor he aspired to a career as concert pianist. And during a performance he made some mistakes which he put down to muscular memory rather than actually memorizing the score and the harmonic development.

@tonebasePiano

8 ай бұрын

Absolutely. Muscle memory without musical understanding is playing with fire.

We'll see you in January for this, Mr Ohlsson! 😉

I love the hypnotic interpretation discussed. My understanding is that Rachmaninoff composed this piece after receiving treatment from Dr. Dull, who used hypnosis. Tonebase is a fantastic resource.😄

Coming from a jazz improvisational perspective, my favorite sounding "error" is Garrick Ohlsson´s :).

Such a great video for us pianists! First, it is teassuring to see the best level pianists screw up! Makes us schlubs feel better. Second, I loved watching the different fingerings on thos nadty, exposed trills! Your 3-5 is very impressive, 2-4 works better for me, buy even the 135-2-35 works! Thank God. Lastly, Garrick Ohlsen is such a real charmer! Totally loveable! ps I played #1 and 3, but never 2. Too tricky! Even Rubindtein fakes the last movement! 🤣

@julianbrelsford

8 ай бұрын

I'm a violinist and I've definitely made the same kinds of mistakes described here without playing any Rachmaninoff

Great video

The first bars of his 3rd piano concerto's first movement are utterly easy as well ! Hiding the upcoming nightmare...

If my memory serves me well, Cortot also botched the passage and played instead of the E-flat a Chopin Prelude by mistake…alas

@tonebasePiano

8 ай бұрын

underrated comment

I’d love to see an analysis of the eight repetitions of the main theme of the slow movement from Mozart C minor Concerto, K 491. Each time has a different rhythmic/melodic variation and drove me to insanity. Mozart played with the score and improvised in any case. Brendel does his own thing each time, and I think that’s totally in the spirit of the style. Make it up as you go along. To play exactly as the score says each time is enough to put you in an asylum. The same goes for the various repetitions of the Promenade in Pictures at an Exhibition. I had to write out the differences in words to be able to retain it. Anyone else relate to that? This video uses exactly the correct way to solve this issue- analytic approach is the only dependable way to approach it. My ears aren’t good enough to depend on for this. I have to know each note and how it fits in the chord. Visual memory also helps me.

4:08 Sokolov 5:20 5:58 Gavrilov 7:01 7:12 7:25 7:37 Melnikov 7:47 Bunin 8:00 Howard 8:10 Zimerman 8:19 Kissin 9:03 Kocsis 9:17 Ohlsson 11:23 Rachmaninoff

This is just the type of thing that we pianists obsess over. 😊. Gotta go practice now.

Actually the vertigo feeling happened to me while playing the first movement of one of Bach's Tiro Sonatas for organ.

When it comes down to triples, it might help to accentuate always the first note of the triplet, so you know always exactly where you are - and the listener also does.

So when/where’s the concert? I love this piece!

It doesn’t matter if it’s true was really nice to hear ❤❤❤

My only strategy for passages like that is playing it always with the exact same fingering and getting it into the finger memory until I don't have to think about it anymore.

I never forgot it or had a problem remembering it because every time I play it or practice it, I would sing it in my head using solfege (fixed do) like I do with all melodies: do si do, si la si, la sol la etc. I was not taught music using the ABCDEFG system and I think that only benefited me. I think every pianist at one point should try memorizing the melodic line by singing it in their head every time they practice it. Pretty soon you won’t be able to play that melody without singing every note in your head. Works like a charm! ❤

@tonebasePiano

8 ай бұрын

I agree completely. When you've solfeged your way through a piece, it's hard to forget.

Had this same experience with the 4 d minor bars on the first page of "the snow is dancing" from Debussy's Children's Corner.

That's a great point right there at the end "it's a beautiful metaphor, it doesn't matter if its true." It just works

Very similar issue we can get playing the transition on Chopin's Barcarolle... Very hard to keep that "balancing" touch...

You guys need more views.

What an interesting and funny phenomenon!

Confession: I sometimes just REWRITE those irregularities into more regular and memorizable versions. For example in his Sonata no.2, 1st mvt when the 2nd theme comes back in Gb maj near the end of the piece, it is not a literal transposition of its previous instance in Db maj, for no apparent musical benefit. So I just say screw this, I'm playing it as a literal transposition. The composer is not the one who's gonna look like a fool on stage, I am! So I'd rather look like a fool this way than by completely fumbling the passage!

Things like this happen as one gets older (I speak here from personal experience). Its one reason why many pianists of a certain age will use sheet music in public performance.

@georgenorris2657

8 ай бұрын

I´m 68 now and my finger memory has deteriorated a LOT!

I played Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto no 2 a couple weeks ago on cello during our community orchestra concert! The cello part is very difficult as well, but I love listening to the piano part in this piece, and it was my first concert I’ve ever played on cello! Definitely will never forget playing this piece, it is so magical and difficult!

@csxlab

5 ай бұрын

The cello warms my skin and bumps my heart on this piece .... this concerto for me is not just the piano ... is a dialogue between the strings .... the piano ... the cello .. the bass its pure love :)

I'm laughing, not at the pianists but at Rach for making this deceivingly simple passage

I'll never forget a recital I heard in the 1970's performed on a new 3-manual German-built pipe organ in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. The guest organist was performing the entire recital from memory. During one piece, he suddenly stopped due to a complete memory block. He tried to backtrack a little but couldn't get past that point. The church's resident organist took him out of the balcony and talked him out of just ending the recital by encouraging him to finish the recital using the sheet music. He knew that if the recitalist didn't do this, he might never be able to bring himself to play another recital. Thankfully, the recital continued, including that particular piece.

@rebarnes2215

8 ай бұрын

Organists don't typically perform recitals from memory unless they are virtuosos or participating in a competition or exam for which it is required. This is because a pipe organ is unlike all other instruments. Each pipe organ is a unique instrument because of differences in the number of keyboards (anywhere from 1 to 6 keyboards, plus - usually - the pedalboard). The organ may have anywhere from 61 pipes to thousands of pipes, which may be situated directly in close proximity to the organ console or scattered throughout the entire church or concert hall at great distances from the organ console, so much so that there's a delay between the time the organist presses a key until that pipe or set of pipes is heard. To control those pipes, the organ console may have anywhere from a few control mechanisms to hundreds of them. Since no two pipe organs are identical, the recitalist must learn where everything is located plus what pipes are most suitable for each piece of music to be performed everytime they perform in a different location, usually within the span of a few days if they're on a tour. There's also the reverberation of the room that must be comsidered. So, in short, the pipe organ can be an extremely complex instrument, and therefore most organists simply don't perform recitals from memory. And to make an already complex situation even more complex, the organist plays with both feet as well as both hands.

Really interesting video.... Just as a side note, I've heard that some pianist miss out a note or two in the 1st movement chords because they are so hard to play without resorting to splitting or rolling the chords. I find it impossible to play the 2nd and 8th bar chords without breaking them. Thanks for a really absorbing episode. Cheers Ian. Leicester UK.

@mickizurcher8450

8 ай бұрын

Rolling a chord is a minor transgression

@tonebasePiano

8 ай бұрын

Rachmaninoff breaks up the chords even though he didn't have to. But there's a trick to the 2nd and 8th chords. Play the C-Db half step in the right hand with the the thumb playing both notes. It's surprisingly comfortable and reliable, and more manageable for most hands.

@IanKnight40

8 ай бұрын

@@tonebasePiano Thanks, I will be giving that tip a try. Cheers Ian.

I deffinetly need that t-shirt!

Great

Watched this for a long time and quit. He’d never get to the actual mistake. Maddening.

The do it with your nose caught me dying 😂😂

Hahaha as a pianist I can confirm! The easiest parts in a difficult piece are often overlooked, thus not memorized quite as well!

@georgenorris2657

8 ай бұрын

That reminds me of a finalist at the Leeds piano competition some time in the 90´s who was playing Rach Paganini variations very beautifully. When he got to the very famous variation (18th I think) he had a really serious memory slip. He´d probably hopped over it during his practising a few times thinking "Oh I know that one."

I really wish maestro Elizondo would record Rach 2 😢

YO I messed up on this same part during a concerto competition!

Richter execution of this passage is unreal ❤

I want that T-shirt..... Is that in your merch Sir?

The real lesson is this: theory isn't just for nerds, it makes you a better performer

And what about the accentuation? It seems to me that, at the beginning of the passage, everybody accentuates the the third note of the first triplet instead the first note of the second one.

Did he really just say that all the notes in his concert is more than all the grains of sand on every beach combined

I feel like I just practiced this passage for hours just by watching this video.

I don't know if anyone already said this but this gets even worse knowing that there was a printing error in the Pavel Lamm score. The first arpeggio had an e-flat followed by a d-sharp in the score, which is the same tone. Maybe this was what Rachmaninoff himself might have tripped over.

I never knew this passage is tricky! I'll have to play some of this excellent video at Rach's grave and see if anything happens. How did Gunkle Lenny fare with this hypnotic moment? I can play some over his grave at my next visit.

As a fellow Rach 2 player, the hardest but easiest section for me are clearly the two piano buildups to the climaxes in the development of the 2nd Movement. Very hard to remember.

Number five: these concertos require incredible concentration to play. Here’s the one passage that says you can relax and catch your breath for a moment and drop your concentration.-Toby

Omg Ben need a tutorial video on how to trill with 3 and 4.

@wuwupiano

8 ай бұрын

Great video btw!

@tonebasePiano

8 ай бұрын

I was born with a decent 3-4 RH trill and a lousy 2-3. I think I'm using 3-5 a lot in this video, which I find very comfortable for some reason.

PLEASE, make Seymour Bernstein's reaction to Waltz Opus 64 2 Katsaris arrangement.

I can’t even play the first friggin measure because my hands are too small. 😂 However, I’ve managed to play the first few measures by rolling, if not leaving out the more than octave chords in one hand. I used to be a viola/violin double, but now morphed into a viola/bass double.

very entertaining and very valuable: what tonebase is pointing to at the end is the usefulness of a knowledge of functional harmony in the secure memorization of tonal music--and functional harmony is the easiest part of music theory for a pianist to master: we can see it on the keys, we get to hear it in chords modulating, and we get to make it part of the train of thought as we play and tend to finger technique

On one day somebody played a wrong note, ... and so jazz was born. 😁

Who's performance is in the beggining of the video? I mean the Rach's 3 with the fast notes

How did it go at your concert?😊

3:25 lmao nice flexing those 35 trills

What a terrific video. Not petty at all, but a real exploration of just how come the errors made by so many towering performers happen over not just the same small stretch, but frequently at exactly the same note! The suggestion at the end (no pun intended) is a beautiful explanation. I want it to be true. I wonder - has every pianist, amateur or professional, at least once as a kid or adult, tried playing a few notes with their nose? I have, and it's not a very good method. Myth (?) has Mozart doing it. But Gould? Schiff? Argerich? Ravel? You lot?

@classicallpvault8251

8 ай бұрын

A more interesting question would be if people have actually tried playing a note with their bell end!

@peterstokes3978

8 ай бұрын

Who would ever play piano by nose, rather than by ear?

@MarekIglo

8 ай бұрын

At my graduation concert, I played the middle note (G) of the final chord of Schumann's Toccata with my nose. However, it's true that when that note isn't played there, no one notices it because it still sounds anyway.

I wonder if muscle memory has somethijg to do with it too. By the time one masters this kind of piece every strong and fast passage has been trained do exertion and is completely written in the pianist brain's synapses, to the core of his arm, pukse and finger nerves. But a mellow, soft passage in the modsft of such a complex piece might not have had the same attention as the rest.

@MiguelCatalaoMusic

8 ай бұрын

Ps. : quite a clever save from the "younger" undosclosed pianost. Nerves of steel, I've heard the concerto a lot of times, live and recordings and i thik i wouldnt notice it.

WITH A GOOD PIANIST, EVEN THE MISTAKES SOUND GOOD.

Ben sure has a nose for the piano . . . even when he's upside down!