This is actually not what ST2110 is meant to be. A Key fact of ST2110 is that ALL Signal within a network are referenced by a centralized time reference and synchronized by PTP. If you want to convert a Signal from SDI to 2110, the source signal needs to be genlocked to the PTP Grandmaster. Either your Grandmaster has a Tri-Level or Blackburst output, or you use the Reference out of the BM Converter itself. If you don't genlock your sources, Blackmagic build in a frame synchronizer on each input that buffers the signal to shift it to the PTP clock. This means you add up to 40ms of latency. If you do it the right way, the 2110 latency comes down to microseconds (determined by the network topology). This is way below a single frame and you won't be able to measure it by comparing two screens. To determine the latency, you would use something like a Tektronix WFM or Phabrix. Adding an external PTP Clock alone won't change the latency cause your sources are still not referenced. Additionally, BM build a grandmaster clock right into the converter itself. You absolutely want to skip this feature to really benefit from the ST2110 advantages.

@GrishTech

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the explanation

@dolphinuppercut

Ай бұрын

great info!

Ive been waiting for somebody to make a video on these convertors. Thank you legend

Best way I have found to measure latency is pull up a web clock with millisecond display and film the output on both the source and target display. We have been using NDI heavily for this type of application but I am curious about the difference in latency!

Nice video guy! happy new year

Exactly the info I needed, thank you!!

It may be good to remind that when measuring latency as the round trip to and then from the stage in the IP-link, it's actually twice the delay of the single journey. Far to easy to forget :) Also, the re-sync on inputs may do a con trick and warp our time space a bit when looping a output back to an input. As you say, syncing with audio may need a cup of coffee or two, especially when mixing booth IP and non-IP transferred sources.

Thanks for the product review. It likely helps a lot on trip hazards to have less cables, and management / IDing. This should work great for you. Could also see how it could help in a church install. .... Take care.

IP video has come a long way in 15 years

Hi I’m watching from Japan 🇯🇵 Your video is so amazing Thanks

You look like hardwell as in the dj cool video

Awesome review. Did you test anciliary data over those converters? I mean, what about INPUT 1 for camera and OUTPUT 1 for return feed to the camera (and tally, camera control, ...). Thanks. :)

Nice review. Off topic, is the carpet planks just for temporary? I have been looking for something like that for our small studio.

Great video! I've been thinking about pulling the trigger on these. Could you potentially send different framerate signals simultaneously if needed? I.E. if I have to send a projector feed 60p but everything else is 30. Thanks for noting that you might send a different IMAG feed for latency reasons.

Thanks for the video! Whats the maximum length of the cat cable? And could you use more switches to extend the length of it?

Were you connected to a network switch or did you just use a crossover cable between the two units? I wonder if the next version of the converter will have a slot for a GBIC.

Great stuff, can only one unit be used to run into a network and receive the 3 camera feeds from the stage? thanks

I have been looking at solution like this, NDI has been on the radar, fibre etc. but I think for small camera i/o setup. this will work, especially since you can connect them directly without a network switch, which makes it easy and less costly for 3 video in /out.

@BuriTechVids

6 ай бұрын

If you want direct connection between converters, yes ST2110 is the way. But if you want switch and mix more converters, it's much more expensive than NDI because it transfers uncompressed video. That said you will need at least 10G to 100G switch (if you do 4K), and you would need PTP grand master generator (time generator) which is not cheap too.

@i360MediaInc

6 ай бұрын

@@BuriTechVids yes, overall may be expensive but for bringing just 3 camera from from of stage to your switcher and send 3 outputs to from of stage directly with just one Ethernet cable and no complex setups is dope in that instance.

Great Video! Going to grab a couple of these. Perfect tool for my Downstage stage needs. I am interested in your LED wall im in the market and been window (internet youtube) shopping. Any recommendations? Processor and Screen? My use would be combination Backgrounds for corporate event stage set. outdoor event Video Playback and Camera ISO. Thanks in advance!

- You can leave the gateway filed empty, it not uses al long at the device does not need to connect outside of 10.0.x.x. - what obout runnig these units over 1gb/s instead of 10gb/s?

Three months later, do you recommend this product? Are there certain events you’ll use this for and other you wouldn’t? Thanks!

Hi, thank you for this video. I have one question wich doesn´t get answered on the internet, maybe you could help. Does the 2210 Converter supports the Blackmagic Camera Control when it is cabled bidirectional? It would be very nice to control a BM Micro Studio Cam on the stage, but I don´t know if the Adapter supports this particular SMTE-Metadata

@sptzr

5 ай бұрын

For those who are still curious about this question, yes the Camera Control with a Bi-Di Converter and a Pocket 6k works perfectly on a 4ME

Thank you for sharing your experiences ☺ The latency should be greatly improved by the introduction of a PTP clock, but the test also felt more like "how well this device would work if used as a directly connected 3 way full-duplex stagebox." Out of curiosity though, have you tried ticking one of the 2110's, in the box called "Set converter as PTP follower only", and seeing if that impacted latency?

@liveproductionmastery

6 ай бұрын

I did try clicking the follower only box but I didn’t get to a latency test because my return feeds went away from stage to FOH which kind of defeated the use case I was going for. I will do more testing and see if I can get the latency down more.

@TVJAY

6 ай бұрын

I feel like this box was acting as the PTP clock source. Am I wrong?

@stvmyr

6 ай бұрын

A PTP Clock will only improve the latency if the source signal is referenced to the PTP clock itself. Either your Grandmaster has Genlock Output, or you use the Reference out of the Converter. In this case, the internal Frame synchronizer will be disabled and you gain a lot of time.

@GrishTech

6 ай бұрын

@@TVJAYhello!

Hey Brandon You seem like you have extensive experience in Audio for live events and streaming. Could you do more videos on this subject? It’s a rabbit hole I find myself getting stuck in! Thanks in advance

That latency test is hard to tell what's happening, because of the loop. It's hard (impossible) to tell if it's 1, 2 or 3 loops behind. Better test would be simply a clock/counter. That way you can pause and compare/subtract the 2 times on the screen and get an exact latency.

@liveproductionmastery

6 ай бұрын

Understood, I can say that it was not that far behind. Milla seconds not seconds or entire loop behind. I’ll use a clock next time. This was my audio sync test loop that I use from time to time.

Blackmagic JUST (April 2024) released a heap of new products that use this same protocol… it could replace SDI

Will it work with an ethernet to fiber and fiber to ethernet converter, to replace the ethernet cable and make much longer distance possible?

@djp_video

6 ай бұрын

Yes

trying to measure the frames delay from the youtube video, seems around 3-4 frames, not sure what fps this video is though, not a so bad latency. a timer clock with nanoseconds would have been a better test for accuracy. to do this via youtube, pick a test point on the direct video and use a comma and full stop (- while video is paused to move by frame backward or forward) to see how long it takes the second output(via converter) t takes too get to same spot. I got 3-4 frames

Thanks for the test! Does anyone know if the converters also work using a 1gb/s switch? Maybe with fewer channels in parallel?

@djp_video

6 ай бұрын

Since there isn't any compression, you'd have to keep the total video bandwidth under 1 Gbps. Which means that not even HD-SDI would qualify. So you'd have to be at 720p30 (not a real format) or SD resolutions, and only be able to support a single video source at that. It really does need 10 Gb if you're working in HD.

Would the latency disappear if you had a ptp clock?

@liveproductionmastery

6 ай бұрын

I will have to test!

@TheUnMarketingGroup

6 ай бұрын

@@liveproductionmastery Appreciate all you do for the community!

@32Domi

6 ай бұрын

Probably not, since the latency is not because of the lack of a clock but the processing itself. If you mean latency between different converters: probably yes!

@TheUnMarketingGroup

6 ай бұрын

@@32Domi So if I understand what you're sating, even if this was a few direct SDI connections you'd still observe this latency ?

@32Domi

6 ай бұрын

I don't quite understand, after which latency you are. The ~100ms roundtrip delay seen in the video arises due to being converted to IP (2110) and back. All that processing needs time. Everything IP based will need time. PTP clock will just make sure that multiple converters will stay in sync, if you are using e.g. 3 converters to transport 9 camera signals

Sure wish these had an LC Fibre connector.... Not many switches have 10g copper ethernet......

@djp_video

6 ай бұрын

While true, the segment of the market that Blackmagic is targeting are lucky to have any kind of 10Gb networking, let alone any kind of fiber infrastructure. They're likely to be using near entry-level networking equipment, where copper is much more common. It's easy enough to convert back and forth between fiber and copper anyway.

@DoubleACS

4 ай бұрын

@@djp_video Doug, what would you use to convert back and forth between fiber and copper?

@djp_video

4 ай бұрын

@@DoubleACS A combination of Blackmagic ATEM Studio Converter, ATEM Camera Converter, and the BMD Optical Fiber Mini/Micro Converters.

What SDI signal format were you using? 1080p60 needs 3G/s so only 3 unidirectional signals can go over a 10G network connection so you must be running 1080p30 max to get bidirectional connections

@djp_video

6 ай бұрын

10GbE is Full Duplex so you can both send and receive 10 Gbps in both directions simultaneously. Having three 1080p60 sources in both directions simultaneously should be possible on a 10Gb network.

You are going to get a lot of flack for not using legit multicast addresses. Even if you NEVER plan on using these on a "network", if you ever do, you could run into some potential issues because you are using non-standard IP space. Research the various multicast address space that other systems like Dante, NDI, etc use and pick a range that is not common to those. Same with the TCP/IP control addresses. Your life will be so much better. Trust me.

@stvmyr

6 ай бұрын

The addresses should be managed by NMOS with a centralized registry. This is defined in the standard IS-05.

@ewsclass6679

6 ай бұрын

Yes will cause problems with IGMP and PIM not working if used in a more advanced environment

but! it is limited to 90 Meters, because it is just ethernet, there is no small solution to get converted to fiber

Why not use a network switch (Netgear, Cisco, TP Link) and plug everything with am Ethernet port into it? Blackmagic has been very good about future proofing their equipment with Ethernet ports. Plugging everything that you can into a network switch opens up more capabilities.

@TVJAY

6 ай бұрын

Most consumer switches will not be able to handle a lot of 2110 video because of the bandwidth requirements.

@AmazeStudios

6 ай бұрын

You would need a 10gig switch, which aren't that cheap right now.

@AmauryJacquot

6 ай бұрын

the latest Ubiquiti switches (such as the aggregation with 32 10G ports) should support PTP The enterprise 24 POE has been tested as working.

@stvmyr

6 ай бұрын

You want benefit from ST2110 if you don't use a switch and plug all you devices into it. In theory you could use any Switch. In reality you want a switch that supports PTP Transparent Clock, or even PTP Boundary Clock.

@djp_video

6 ай бұрын

@@AmazeStudios Also, it should have IGMP support, and PTP would certainly be a nice add-on. So baseline 10GbE switches won't really cut it.

Based on all the awesome content and comments, if any cares to idiot check me, I appreciate it. @djp_video I'm looking to set something like this up in a stage box type configuration (CAT6A from box to box) to be able to control 3 blackmagic micro studio cameras via a BM Constellation HD20/ATEM Control Software (SDI in/out on all 3 cameras). Since the latency is more observable on the return output, and I'm only using that for control, should I probably be okay latency-wise? My program out to my iMag LED processor comes straight from the Constellation... Lastly, lots of talk on timeclock here too of course... I have an AIDA 1 in / 4 output 3G Timecode Generator not really being used I could throw into the mix if that would somehow help..? Obviously the key to this set up is running less cable, I just can't sacrifice too much latency. (FYI- This is all fixed install, but locations of some of the control booths could change, which is part of why this set up is so appealing to replace a single cable instead of 6 lines of 300ft+ SDI). Thanks in advance to anyone for the help & thank you LPM for the vid.