The way I've seen this done, is to first make a print on regular paper. Then cut a piece of thermal transfer paper large enough to cover the print, and tape it over the printed area, glossy side up. Now place this sandwich in the laser printer, and make another print. The regular paper provides the stability that is lacking in the Chinese transfer paper. Another approach I've seen done is to lay a 2 inch wide strip of clear cellophane packing tape down onto a piece of regular paper, and run it through the laser printer, with the circuit pattern positioned to print on the cellophane tape. If your circuit pattern is two inches wide or less, this method can work well. Thanks for a great video! >Charlie

@Agent24Electronics

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion! I have tried it that way in the past, with old magazine pages as the transfer paper. However, I would suggest careful consideration of the tape used, as some may melt or release glue into your printer and cause problems. If anyone wants to try this, I'd say test your tape with an iron first. Perhaps stickers from laser-compatible label sheets would work well as tape? I've never tried that though... Glad you liked the video!

@ponymoore6140

Жыл бұрын

Maker a video of the process please, Charles

I purchased some of the yellow transfer paper off ebay. I ordered 100 sheets. I used a laminator, multiple passes, and checked it with a infrared temp gauge. I ran it through many times and the board reached 200 degrees F. Over all, it made a great transfer. Soaked it in water, and it released cleanly. I even made my own etchant. The ingredients are a 3% solution of hydrogen peroxide. And a 31% solution of Muriatic acid(cost me $4 for a gallon). I took 400mL of the Hydrogen peroxide, and slowly mixed in 200mL of the muriatic acid. This creates a clear solution, and as the board etches, it changes to a pretty blue. There are claims this can be a long lasting etchant, that can be freshened by giving it fresh air and shaking it up. Or just adding some tablespoons of peroxide.

@Agent24Electronics

5 жыл бұрын

Your process sounds very similar to mine, although my etchant goes green - I have not heard of it going blue before. I have yet to get into the chemistry of it and to actually check the quality of mine; something I will get around to eventually. Otherwise, I just throw in more hydrogen peroxide and it seems to work.

@Jimmy6ification

5 жыл бұрын

@@Agent24Electronics You are right. It does turn green. I thought it was bluish at the start.

I found the best method (as well as the cheapest) for perfect transfers (down to .1mm) every time is to use HP glossy presentation paper and heat transfer vinyl textile foils ($9 for a 12"x25 foot roll at H&H signs). Unfortunately, the glossy presentation paper leaves a residue on the traces after the paper is released (after soaking it in soapy water for a few minutes). The residue prevents the vinyl from sticking to the toner - but it can be removed easily by immersing the PCB in 45% vinegar (while PCB is immersed gently pass a Q-tip over the toner covered traces) for a few minutes. Regular food grade vinegar (5%) doesn't work. The vinyl will then stick to the PCB traces after passing through a laminator a half dozen times or so. The vinyl layer essentially closes the pores in the toner covered traces so that the FeCl2 or CuCl2 doesn't attack the copper traces during etching. There are a lot of videos on heat transfer vinyl foils on the Internet - check out Nancy Stamps videos ("The Queen"): "Don’t start foiling until you watch this video" on KZread. Have fun!

@Agent24Electronics

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a good method!

@jjustinengineer

2 жыл бұрын

@@Agent24Electronics On another tip,: In the past, I always had a problem with the toner getting embedded in the crevasses of the PCB using the acetone. I tried mineral spirits as well - same problem. I had been wiping the board with the acetone while the board was not submerged in the acetone - essentially smearing the toner all over the board and inadvertently forcing it into the crevasses. If you do that, it becomes nearly impossible to get the toner out of the crevasses no matter how long you soak the board. The trick is to not wipe the acetone off the board while the board is not completely submerged in the acetone. Keep the board submerged in the acetone (always) and wipe the toner off ALL the traces using a Q-Tip before removing the board. The toner particles will become suspended in the acetone and will no longer be able to stick in the crevasses of the board. Flush the board with a stream of water. You can filter the acetone to remove the toner particles and then re-use the acetone over and over again. Note this issue may be confined to Brother printers and the way their toner behaves. Hope this helps someone.

hi Agent24 ... recently found and subscribed to your channel ... nice mix of videos ... great work. Your videos about the Pulsar, PnP, yellow sheets has gotten my interest. In your video about the blue photoresist video you mention that you would never have been able to get that result with the yellow sheets. Can you (or other viewers/readers here) give me an idea what criteria you would use in deciding to go with which method for projects that are typically going to be one-offs only? Is it mostly trace/spacing width? If so, what trace/space widths would be ok for the various methods? Looking forward to your comments and even more to your next video.

Where can I buy this green tape please

I use to square bits of cardboard, put the paper between, some bricks on it to flatten it! Job done.

@Agent24Electronics

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks, good idea - I'll give that a try for the rest of the sheets and see what happens.

I think that actually looks better than the last one. The toner seem to have transferred better. the traces all seem very clean and sharp, at least through youtube compression. The paper is a little thinner, sure. But if your printer can handle that type of paper i feel like the result is of at least equal quality. The better quality on this one could be because of the bigger size of your other PCB to be fair.

@Agent24Electronics

6 жыл бұрын

It only looks better because smaller designs and/or smaller flood fills are easier for the printer, thus there are less pinholes and thin patches to start with. This is true regardless of the paper type. The transfer of the toner from the paper to copper was actually identical with both papers - i.e. 100% of what had been printed. They are equal in that regard. The reason the previous board did not come out as well in comparison, was due to the partial failure of the Green TRF on the trailing edge, which I suspect was due to the temperature dipping at that point. Also, as more pinholes were present on that print to start with, the areas of TRF failure needed more touch up anyway.

@jort93z

6 жыл бұрын

Fair enough, that makes sense.

Murphy must have had the day off this time...…………….nice job Sir...…...is that the 15V dual supply?...if so, are gonna film the final build and test?

@Agent24Electronics

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks, yes that is the power supply board. I have not done a video about it specifically as it is not particularly interesting, but there is some detail about in in this one: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nquBusOxnq3bdqg.html

i tried this method... and after printing on my laser printer... the image was half printed and very very smudgie and bad ... printer is fine, and print well in another paper tzpes... any idea what can be the issue?

@Agent24Electronics

Жыл бұрын

Maybe you printed on the wrong side of the paper?

@skullsk8

Жыл бұрын

@@Agent24Electronics not at all... Just printing on the shiny surface of that paper.. get really bad image... On the none shiny and another " normal paper" even glossy photo paper.. i get always nice quality print

@Agent24Electronics

Жыл бұрын

@@skullsk8 i can only think then, that the paper is not compatible with your printer somehow, or the paper was not made properly.

@skullsk8

Жыл бұрын

@@Agent24Electronics thanks a lot... I might give it a try with another printer... As is very frustrating and i see people like you doing it so easy without problems

Hi there. I enjoyed your video. I am pretty sure I have the same paper, although mine came shipped flat, so is not apt to curl as yours did. I am using this paper to transfer an image that I've printed on it with a laser printer to a sheet of copper that I am going to etch to make a piece of jewelry. I've used P&P (press and peel) paper in the past for etching both copper and silver (using different acids, of course), but since I was out, I thought I'd try this. I use a hot plate that I set to about 325F. I then place the copper and the paper with the image on it (face down of course) on the hot plate and use an agate burnisher to press all over the piece until the image looks like it's down (black coming through the back). My problem was that when I tried to peel off the paper, a tiny film of it was left on the metal, and thereby obscured the places that were supposed to be exposed to the acid. I tried soaking it in water, rubbing with soap and water, with WD-40, all kinds of things. The image actually stayed on the metal very well (better than with P&P paper), but I could not get the paper off. Do you think 325 is too hot? Should I use an iron on top of the hot plate (I don't have a laminator to use). Should I put it into cold water immediately after taking it from the heat (I noticed that you didn't seem to do that; you looked at it a bit and then went and got the water and the paper just seemed to float off. Of course, it's possible I am using a different product. Here is the link from Amazon where I bought it: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYXK4WJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. I'd be grateful for any thoughts you might have.

@Agent24Electronics

4 жыл бұрын

The paper you've bought looks very similar to the paper I used in this video so I assume it's the same. Of course given the low cost nature of the product, there may be quality control issues and variances between batches etc, so who can say it will be identical... I don't think 325°F is too much heat, but I wonder if you may be applying too much pressure or heating for too long? I don't think you should need to get the image showing through the paper. Do you have a larger tool you can use? A clothes iron as you mentioned, might be a better idea. Alternatively, would it be possible to put the work paper-side down on the hotplate and rest a flat, heavy object on the back? Hope this helps!

@tedmaulassociate4063

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Jacqueline... I also use the yellow chinese paper to etch jewellery. My experience with this is to use a household iron and actually I set it to almost the hottest it can get. I have a wooden chopping board that I use only for this purpose and I made a sandwich - chopping board, metal, yellow paper, iron set to hottest (and preheated for about 10 mins) no steam. I actually set the iron on there and leave it for 5 minutes minimum (set a timer). After 5 mins I burnish really hard with the back of a steel teaspoon. Then the iron on top for 5 mins more. I used to let it cool down completely and peel away, however I get the little "bits" like you do. I have found a hot to warm peel (hot enough that I can handle it it but not so warm its almost cool - need to experiment here) yielded a better result than letting it cool in a tub of water. I hope this helps!

@davidfusco3960

3 жыл бұрын

I had the same problem with a high gloss paper supplied by the print shop- this had worked superbly well with gloss paper from a previous print place (I'm 500 miles away now). The new gloss paper transferred everything crisply, but also transferred a 'plastic' coating from the paper, totally nullifying the process... soaking, solvents, either everything comes off or nothing. I just bought some of this cheap transfer paper, and the problem seems to have vanished, I'm just using a household iron as a heat tool.

Print a dot, on the Matt side to straighten it... Then print the real deal.

@Agent24Electronics

4 жыл бұрын

That's an idea, but you still have to get it into the printer the first time! I think it may be easier to flatten it with some heavy books or such.

I bought a 100 sheets of that yellow paper. One look, and I decided it was probably actual laser printer label backing paper being sold by an entrepreneur. He found it worked, and then he started his hustle. I say good for him. Good for whoever buys and uses it. I am sure it works great. But I threw it in the bin. I don't think it is dumb luck why you are still using a printer from the previous century. I have been through 3 or 4 in that time span, but I am getting there, eventually. I don't have the option to use a school or work printer. I own it. So I am the owner of the copy shop that is gonna be pissed if I break my printer to save 3 dollars a year. To me, Pulsar is already flawless. And to me, the price is a complete nonfactor. I only bought it to see if it was some new technology. It is not. It appears to be a slightly slick wax or polymer coating, making it similar to the waxed parchment paper method. Or to the clay coated magazine paper. Boring. BTDT, and it has some limitations and drawbacks. There is a competing and older technology to Pulsar. PnP Blue is a vinyl plastic multilayer laminated sheet with some unique features. It was designed specifically for toner transfer. It has some benefits under certain conditions. But if you are not limited by those issues, Pulsar is the new king of the hill, as far as I am concerned. Oh, and cool vid! Thanks for sharing.

@Agent24Electronics

5 жыл бұрын

No worries, glad you like the video! I wonder if you are on to something regarding the Chinese transfer paper. It does certainly have a sticker-backing vibe to it, now that you mention it... I have heard of that PnP Blue film before (Jaycar sells it here, and Dick-Smith used to, IIRC), but it's even more expensive than Pulsar's paper, and so I have never tried it. Maybe I'll give it a go some day just to see what it's like. What are the benefits over Pulsar's stuff? P.S. - I think you may be right about the printer ;)

@mildyproductive9726

5 жыл бұрын

@@Agent24Electronics Hi, Agent24. I'm one of those hundreds of people who believes he discovered "the best" toner transfer method. The difference is that I can actually explain why. So please bear with the text wall. To preface, Pulsar is the best with some caveats. But allow me to talk about PnP Blue, first. I'll make a second post about Pulsar and the "secret method" I use. The benefit of PnP Blue, for the uninitiated lemming-folk, is twofold. Firstly, the surface is textured to prevent the toner from smearing. If you get the toner slightly too hot, the textured surface will suck up the liquid toner so you don't get fattened traces, smudges, and shorts. Another benefit, for the uninitiated lemming-folk, is regarding pores/pitting. Where the toner sticks, there's a solid layer of plastic that peels off from the backing and covers the toner, so you don't get pinholes. You don't need the reactive foil step like you have shown with the Pulsar. (But you don't need that with Pulsar, either, if you read my next post). The only real shortcoming with PnP Blue are potential cold spots. If you do not get the temp just right, all across your board, you will have spots that fail to transfer, at all. If you try to increase temp too much, you will melt the PnP Blue, itself. It's vinyl plastic. But with the limitations of your specific transfer process, I reckon PnP Blue might be near as good as Pulsar plus reactive foil, and it would save you some money and time for that additional step. But if you want to learn the black art (and pure science) of perfect toner transfer every single time, using Pulsar, stay tuned for my next post.

@mildyproductive9726

5 жыл бұрын

@@Agent24Electronics Perfect Pulsar, every time: So first off, your method of transfer is artificially limited. You have to pass the board through 10+ times to get a high chance of success. This is because you're barely flirting with the minimum temp for a good transfer. You probably "learned" that there is a specific temp you have to hit for a perfect transfer, because most of the other lemming-folk say so. Then there's the random guy who says "get it as hot as possible," and you assume he's just an A-hole that is making 15 mil trace boards with 3 thru hole components, so of course it works good enough for him with all the smears. Then there's the other random guy that says "you should pre-etch the board to help the toner stick." And you may have even tried it, but you found out that it doesn't do anything to help the toner stick. The thing that they did not tell you, and perhaps which they did not even know themselves, is that you have to combine high heat with the pre-etch. So put down the blue pill for a moment and take a look at the red one. What happens if you get the board too hot? Does the toner smear? As we have seen, PnP Blue has a strategy to eliminate the former problem by texturing the surface of the transfer medium. But what about Pulsar? Pulsar is a smooth medium. If you get the toner too hot, it will smear. Unless... after you clean your board, you can dip it into your etchant for about 5 seconds. Take it out and let the excess drip off for another 5 seconds. Then rinse it in clean water. Then dry it with a heat gun. Now, the surface of the copper is textured to suck in liquid toner without fattening or smearing. What else can happen when you get the transfer too hot? The toner can melt into the paper fibers and turn the board into a chia pet. This happens with glossy magazine paper. You can't effectively remove all the fibers, and this ruins the etch. With glossy photo paper, the surface of the paper can melt and fuse to the board, ruining the etch. But... none of these things happen to Pulsar with a pre-etch. What does happen? Nothing. There is no upper temperature limit when using Pulsar paper and a pre-etch. There is only one inconsequential drawback to doing a pre-etch. Sharpie does not bond to a pre-etched board. But since you will have zero defects, this does not matter. To get the board this hot, just take your laminator out of the case and screw it to a plank of wood. Pre-heat the board a bit with a hot air gun (from the hardware store, for stripping paint and such), then do one pass in the laminator to tack the paper down. Keep the hot air gun at full power while this is happening, to make sure it's fully hot as the board exits on the first pass. Then take the board and do a second pass while shooting the board with the hot air gun on full power. How much heat? Find out where the board burns and bubbles, then back off a smidge. If you cannot get the board to burn, then don't worry about it. Just get the board as hot as you can. With a powerful heat gun, you are done. That second pass with hot air is all it takes. Drop the board into water. The bonus is that there is no need for reactive foil. At this high a temp, the toner fuses into a solid layer. You get no pin holes. Label backing might work for this method, too. But I find this kind of paper can get some ghosting. Some of the toner powder can fall off before it gets fused during printing. With the Puilsar, you get a really clean transfer, and your pitch is only limited by the resolution of your printer. If you put your print under a microscope and you see breaks in the traces, then your printer can't go this fine. If the lines are solid, your transfer will be perfect. Mine starts losing traces at 6 mils.

@Agent24Electronics

5 жыл бұрын

No worries - it's good to read a detailed explanation! It sounds like the PnP Blue is quite a good product - although I don't think I would save money with it. Perhaps it is cheaper where you are, but from what I've seen here, it costs more. I can buy a 10-pack of Pulsar TTP + enough TRF to cover almost twice that for under $60, while the PnP Blue costs $42 for just 5 sheets. I don't think I'll be trying it any time soon given that I already have a good stock of Pulsar stuff. But maybe I'll give it a go when I run out.

@mildyproductive9726

5 жыл бұрын

@@Agent24Electronics Yeah, the price is different here. 10 packs cost about the same between the two, and you can buy PnP in 100 packs at a significant discount. Last I checked, anyway. I still have some PnP Blue, but I bought it many years ago. Notice, none of the stuff I wrote really applies to your current method. You have are not in any danger of getting your boards this hot. I suspect that if/when you have an issue, it is a missed area of transfer from a borderline cold spot.

It's too painful too watch.