We didn't get the outro out, but I talk about how pacing yourself and learning these movements incrementally rather than shotgunning 2-3 hours of practicing a new coordination is better for health and development. Once the strength, coordination, and endurance is built, you can do it way more, but without building that base, it's easy to suffer injury

@kiddalmatiangawd8389

9 ай бұрын

Ayee link the tweet I’m a raven player so I need all the help I can get he feels so slow in the beta 😂

@atuls55

9 ай бұрын

I've never had any kind of injury and I've used stick since Tekken Tag 1 (mostly pad before that) and played games with incredibly intensive stick movments like Virtua Fighter 4. Are people doing something wrong with their hands?

@EMMA-GAMES

8 ай бұрын

@@atuls55 Could be finger position or wrists being pronated, but it's not necessarily someone's fault either. There's a physiological aspect, right? I'd believe it if I was told some people were much more prone to injury than others.

Note that "Pinya-step" was something Knee just made up because he noticed Pinya using it. Pinya was not the first player to discover this technique nor has he ever claimed to be. Amongst Raven players we never refer to it as "pinya-step". Its just called ravu-wavu or cd cancelling. Older Raven players like Tissuemon were using it years before Pinya popped into the pro scene. There are old clips on YT as far back as T5 showing off the technique. There were however no guides or tutorials on it, so I took it upon myself to make one once I had learned it myself (which took a lot of navigating in the dark as the old videos never displayed inputs). I play on pad so other Raven players on different peripherals made guides focusing on their peripheral of choice. And it wasn't until after this, that Pinya would be seen using this technique in tournaments. Just felt that's necessary to clarify. Also other cd characters can also make use this technique, not just Raven as once previously thought.

@PhiDX

9 ай бұрын

Important clarification! Pinya was probably named as probably the current generation's best Raven

@TheWizardofMNT

9 ай бұрын

I remember seeing a raven player who went by the name hell ninja doing it against knee during the t5 days. The video might be somewhere on KZread still. The day I saw it, was the day I decided my movement in Tekken needed to be as crazy as possible, whatever that meant to me back then. Lol. I was just learning about tournament level Tekken during those days. I hope my old self from back then would be proud of where I'm at now ☺️

@Jerome16_

9 ай бұрын

Literally went to watch your tutorial, current wondering if I should abandon Drag and picking up Raven or Victor

@woodchipdust

8 ай бұрын

What’s the difference between this technique and snakedashing? Is it that snakedashing involves sidestep?

Exactly why Smash Melee/PM and Tekken are probably my favorite fighting games: movement is paramount and extremely important if you want to be good. And it feels really good when it clicks and you get it down.

@PhiDX

9 ай бұрын

Those are my favorites as well haha

@A-Spoto

9 ай бұрын

It's really too bad that Nintendo is literally the devil and is trying its hardest at this very moment to end competitive melee #freemelee

@SoldierLuka

9 ай бұрын

Project M mentioned LFG!!! 🎉

@weilzudope

9 ай бұрын

do you play rocket league by any chance? Ive found theres a crossover between players of these games @@PhiDX

@Beenyad

5 ай бұрын

Same and same

Personally the best example of movements importants and hype is Qudans. His way of doing wavedashes into nothing and then baiting out a wiff punishing it instantly with an ewgf is so mind blowingly good gameplay

I love how much this guy just straight up enjoys Tekken. I can feel it through the screen

It's very easy to do these dashes on a keyboard: d,d/f,d Feng has a rolldash into blocking with: d,d/f,d,b . Barely any people know about it, but Feng can block *while still rolldashing forward* if you do the input mentioned before. So what I often do is: d,d/f,d,b,d,d/f,d,b,d,d/f,d,b, to dash forward and close the distance and then do mixups. Some opponents will attack into you thinking that you can't block rolldashing forward, you just block it and now it's your turn to attack. You can get hit when you're entering inputs d,d/f,d, of course, but you can block most of the rolldash animation, so it's OK. Feng is even better than people realize.

KBD isn't really that hard, the game just needs to teach it. When I watched Anakin's video on it I just got it, and was able to practice it properly from then on.

The great thing about tekken is that there is so so much depth in many different aspects of the game, including movement itself. After reading many other peoples thoughts and opinions on movement in tekken throughout the years, I think when the argument is made that movement needs to be easier or more intuitive or that movement is unnecessarily hard for no reason, that people aren't actually saying to take away the depth or lower the skill ceiling, which is what it may sound like they're saying at first, but the more i think about it and what they're actually asking for is to keep that depth, but somehow make base level movement such as simply holding forward or backward better. What would make it better? Maybe increasing walk speed or spacing. Idk what the answer is, but i think those are the questions the developers should be thinking about.

@ShadowBlade79

9 ай бұрын

This. I don't want high-level movement invalidated because it's a learned skill, just like ball handling in basketball. But it shouldn't be so difficult to move on the most basic level that it REQUIRES these techniques just to do that. I like the change they made in backdash speed and consistency because it gives you a taste of what that top-shelf movement feels like without spoon-feeding you the main course. So if you WANT to learn the good shit, you'll be more incentivized to do it. Or not, lol. It depends on what you're comfortable with.

@mflance7197

9 ай бұрын

Keep smoking that copium.

@TheWizardofMNT

9 ай бұрын

@@mflance7197 I will, would you like to join me?

Always love the way you analyze things and practice. The true student of the game

God, i dont even wanna think about doing this motion on stick. It's super easy on hitbox tho, lmao.

Oh man I started learning maven recently and I love her but couldn't find a exhausting tutorial on her dashes. And now you made vid dedicated to that, Phi always here to save the day, thank you sir 🤜🤛

@PhiDX

9 ай бұрын

😎

@feeharn5531

9 ай бұрын

I can't remember where but I had found a document which explained in-depth all you need to know about Maven's wavedash, and also included yt links for examples and all that. It was on some random maven video tho lol so idk if I'll be able to find it again

@jon630

9 ай бұрын

@@feeharn5531 probably the wavu wiki. It's super well maintained for all things maven

@nat2774

9 ай бұрын

​​@feeharn5531 If i can get it correctly, its from Master Raven Clan channel.

getting better at movement in tekken is very rewarding

I was screaming 2,1,1 when he got that wall splat😂

Here's my issue: I super firmly belive high execution gameplay is super freaking cool... ...but I EVEN MORE firmly believe that games should be designed to be fully enjoyable without crazy levels of execution. Pro-level players make up like 1% of the playerbase. You can't design the entire game prioritizing them alone. Movement is incredibly important in tekken, so I think if there's any mechanic that should feel fun WITHOUT execution, it should be that. The optimal zone imo is where casual players don't miss out on fundemental appeals of the game due to lack of execution, while retaining the importance of execition in pro-level play. Hate to say it as someone who doesn't really play them, but even most shooters do this a lot better than tekken does. In most you still get the full experience even if your aim is garbage and you have to play on the lowesr sensitivity, because there's always plenty of full-auto and spread-shot weapon options, and single/burst fire weapons tend to have longer range, so you can still enjoy them too as a noob by playing slower paced and picking off enemies from afar. Meanwhile you still have the insane hype factor of pro players being able to hit multiple split-second no-scope sniper shots back-to-back. And from a movement point of view, there's usually mechanically advanced movement options to move faster or be harder to hit, but it's equally viable to simply duck in and out from behind cover in different directions. I think the optinal spot for movement in tekken is pretty close to where the cbt is. KBD benefits from increasing fluidity over regular backdashing, but low execution players still get solid enough movement via regular backdash to be able to have interesting movement-heavy combat. Personally I'd decrease the delay between non-cancelled backdashes just a smidge more, but I'm still very happy with where its at.

@in3vitableTIMING

9 ай бұрын

Agreed, after playing CBT Tekken 7 movement feels very under water. I was surprised Tekken 8 movement felt as reactive as Soulcalibur’s. Felt like I could concentrate way more on adapting my strategy.

@mateukole5660

7 ай бұрын

Exactly my thought. And on top of that I feel like it's not that movement is hard to master in Tekken per se but the spammy, high APM nature of some tekken mechanics is what is not appealing to the masses. It gives me Starcrafts wibes with it's APM fiesta. At least that's my grasp as someone who wants to pick up Tekken. When I see how gameplay looks on hitbox/keyboard with constant piano like button pressing(often using two hands for movement alone to execute KBD wavedashing even faster) it's not the difficulty that is daunting me, but the thing that it doesn't look like fun thing to do.

I'm missing where you address the issue of how these movements are prone to causing injury. The high skill ceiling of movement has never been the issue for me. Rather, I don't think hands are physiologically suited to these kinds of minute, repetitive movements, and that's my main beef with it.

@PhiDX

9 ай бұрын

We didn't get the outro out, but I talk about how pacing yourself and learning these movements incrementally rather than shotgunning 2-3 hours of practicing a new coordination is better for health and development. Once the strength, coordination, and endurance is built, you can do it way more

To be honest i would like u to watch yeonarang’s snake movement its the most difficult movement in tekken ive ever seen and he does it like hes wave dashing and the amazing part about it he can do it with backwards input.

I have huge problem to play characters with backflips in Tekken, especially Raven, because he will go into stance and even use white hole when i cancel his backdash. This is because of the input method i use to decrease strain on the tendons of my left hand. The fastest backdash cancel on hitbox style controllers is done by holding back and alternating up(fast click with right thumb) and forward (fast click and wait a few frames). It is not a clean Korean backdash, so you do not have any low block and unfortunately rage art freeze frames will make you jump like a dumbass. You will also automatically use wallflip attacks. If things stay like this i likely can't play Raven at a high level, which is sad because i loved this man ever since he dropped the line "Heihachi Mishima... is dead!" in that T5 demo intro.

I jus picked up master raven for T8 raven and i noticed i can do her wave dash cancel with her cancel being the UP input better than i can wave dash . Ive literally been practicing for 2 days

Do it just like Lee's slide with a quick neutral in between. Works for me

Hey man do you have a video or tutorial vid for leroy? I think he looks cool and I really wanna learn him

Cool. Thanks for breaking this stuff down so well. So how are you practicing T8 after the test tho? Is practice mode somehow still available.

@PhiDX

9 ай бұрын

I streamed 40 hours, old footage

"...prone to causing injuries." 😥

Im not done watching yet, but so far to do this technique you just have to do qcf n d,df and once you started the one from crouch, you chain d,df,n,d,df,n it's a timing based input but you can just chain d,df,n with some speed and it will still work, as you said, just don't get to f or you're cooked, it's a very easy motion to learn and develop (Raven players trying to make it like it's a very hard technique to master 😂) Edit (after I watched) : Seems like it's kinda easy to get it done, in T7 it was also a very good approaching tool due to the constant low parry input, as well as constant high crushing, and sometimes mid evasion, I bet everything works the same on T8 except that it will not evade mids that easily

My biggest fear before getting my hands on Raven was that they would've simplified or removed the ravu~wavu. It's so goddamn satsifying and a huge part of what makes the character appealing to me.

There's a reason why you still see such a large community around a game as old as Melee. Depth in fighting games like advanced movement is what makes a game truly worthy of dedication and allows you to reach an entirely new level of enjoyment and satisfaction that keeping a game simple will never let you reach. I'm genuinely worried about the reduction of movement and added aggression in T8 because of this. I'm still kinda new to Tekken having picked it up in T7 so maybe I'm overreacting, but if advanced movement is ever entierly removed from the series idk if I'll be able to find the motivation to play anymore.

@TWO8W

9 ай бұрын

Which is why I love third strike. I love being on a pixel of hp and my opponent is trying to chip me out with a super or something like that and I parry all of that shit and I know that I’m the one that made that Comeback happen because of my own skill

@booleann___

9 ай бұрын

Sidestepping is buffed in T8, so it's not all bad news on the movement front

Also why Raven/Maven snakedash is so good is that it buff low parry :D

They don't know that movement made Tekken a quarter easier to play since you don't have to eat or block pokes mid battle always and you can whiff punish the opponent.

@dat1faclesdude

9 ай бұрын

thats why they buffed regular backdash and sidestep!

You don’t have to press up. You can cancel from QCF to fullcrouch. You get the next crouch dash from fullcrouch. The one where you cancel fullcrouch to neutral is completely unnecessary and just a flex to be honest. No utility to it. You have know when you can access full crouch and QCF moves during your dash. It’s bigger than just dashing. Also you don’t always sneak dash with the intent to hit. Sometimes you just block. If every time you go to sneak dash they launch you they’ll keep mashing against it.

@PhiDX

9 ай бұрын

In my experimentation you could only get two that way, was there a way to string together more than two doing qcf~df? Pinya I believe is doing d~df~d over and over and the fluidity, evasion, and low parry window is insane

@Moth590

9 ай бұрын

@@PhiDXFor me, I start with a QCF, go to full crouch, and spam the law slide input endlessly. You sort of release your full crouch into a dash for qcf moves, you also have access to some neutral moves given they have a directional input, like d, 4 for example or DB2 if you end your dash in the qcf state. You release the full crouch into while standing at the end of the dash for a WS move. I apologise if I can’t explain it very eloquently as it just comes second nature for me. I’ve been playing the character for so long. But yes, you can string it without getting into neutral.

@feeharn5531

9 ай бұрын

​@@Moth590I think the neutral cancels might help with low parry frames as well as keeping the opponent on edge with the twitch movement that might come with it. It can create a sense of rhythm that you can play around with when applying the mix-ups. I think it's definitely worth practicing as a raven main.

@Moth590

9 ай бұрын

@@feeharn5531 The crouch dashes offer the same thing when done rapidly. It’s just as fast. You auto low parry anyway since the process takes you from one state to full crouch. I know how to do it, I believe some call it the Peruvian wavedash, it’s unique to only Raven. I just don’t, I find no utility to it. It’s a pain in the ass on D-pad. I don’t think it’s worth it. Edit: Plus you’re shuffling between two states, one of them gives you access to some of the most essential moves on neutral without being on neutral. Pretty much drives home the point of it being useless in terms of utilising the neutral state as well.

@feeharn5531

9 ай бұрын

@@Moth590 it can definitely close distance quicker too tho. And if it moves forward quicker, you track and stick to the opponent more for more tracking properties on the moves you use from it. I don't really practice Tekken at all often, so I haven't really gotten the hang of the wavedash but it does occasionally work out nicely. And to be honest, there isn't really a right way to do any of it because Raven is very much a character which allows the player to express their creativity quite a bit. It all comes down to what works for you.

I’m on pad and Ravens crouch dash feels way smoother than a Mishima wave dash to me.

My main issue with movement is that, thinking about all the variables of what I want to do, what my opponent wants to do, reacting to whiff etc., always makes me freeze in the game which then makes me only playing it like a 2D game where I block and wait for my turn to hit instead of this very free-flow movement. Idk what's wrong with me. I can do wavedash/backdash cancels in practice mode but when it comes to a real match, I just never do it. It is very frustrating for me

@PhiDX

7 ай бұрын

It's part of the skill development! I've been there too.

@Kjernekar

Ай бұрын

Sounds like you still have to activly think about each motion you do for the movement. It will become like breathing after a while, same as you don't have to ACTIVLY think about what button you use to do a jab.

Gosh this looks so much easier on hitbox

Yep*

Nina's crouch dash is very hard as well

What is 'upsetting' about this is you have a special controller.. try doing all these diagonal movements with a pad and thumb. It's absurdly difficult. There are tricks - like using the joystick + pad... but that's kind of nuts. So that's why 'movement' bothers me - very little error is allowed, and with the a thumb A LOT of moves become unviable in competitive. I'll probably get the pad... but I feel silly playing tekken socially... then busting out my special equipment lol... but like others say, I love, your love of the game and great teachings!

I'm not against advanced movement tech in games. I love movement type games. But I do fully understand both sides of the argument. When I started playing Tekken it did feel kind of clunky to move around at first but once I started learning how my character moves it stopped feeling that way. I want games to be in that comfortable mid ground where moving around feels intuitive and natural, where mastering complex movement techniques is like, one of the last things you have to learn and master to play well. I think one of the issues with Tekken is that a lot of the times new players feel like they HAVE to know it's movement tech to be able to just play and that makes it seem more like gatekeeping. I think anime fighters and super smash bros are the best examples where a movement system feels immediately intuitive but still have some level of depth to them that is by no means necessary to play at a normal level. A lot of said movement techniques are also not necessarily difficult to learn, and the hardest part is learning how to apply it well. And that's where I think movement should be. Immediately intuitive but not without some extra butter on top to give it some complexity.

I just read the dpad comment in the chat and it's easy but slow lol

Yo Phi, you ever play any Rivals of Aether? You strike me as a Rivals enjoyer

@PhiDX

9 ай бұрын

A little cuz a friend liked it, but it didn't feel super nice to move in

I need help learning this movement on hitbox

@PhiDX

7 ай бұрын

Don't follow my exact hand movements, but explore using the inputs as your guide. I believe hitbox has the most accessible way to do this movement

Off-topic, but, since Noctis won't be in Tekken 8, who will you main? For sure, others have asked you this before, I don't watch you much, so idk.

@PhiDX

9 ай бұрын

Probably Azucena or Lili

@reng.2588

9 ай бұрын

​@@PhiDXI think Lili fits your movement heavy playstyle.

nice content

Yuh we learning that ravu-wavu

people has forgotten about dead or alive 5

pog

“Oh no I have to practice something therefore it’s gatekeeping me” What a silly argument 😂

@tekkenjam

9 ай бұрын

the practice necessary to perfect it is drastically different from a joystick/lever to keyboards or hitboxes. keyboards its easy as shit whych is why people make the gatekeeping argument not because they dont want to practice it but simply ask why should they when its already 100x simpler with a hit box.

I love you PhiDX 😘😱

I like Tekken movement and I want it to be good. I do hate doing it on a Japanese lever though lmao I need a korean stick to be able to learn doing it consistently without it feeling like chruning butter or giving me artrithis

I hate that we even have to have this discussion that learning anything complex should require practice is "gatekeeping" or "elitist". I'm sorry, that's not gatekeeping at all. Wanting complex combos or movement to be locked behind execution is not gatekeeping. It's keeping true to a very basic concept - which is that anything worth doing should involve training to get better at it. Like at other things like the gym or playing guitar. Do you know why no one ever complains about not being able to deadlift 300kg easily or play complex guitar solos? I do, it's because there's no "developer" these people can go crying to nerf the requirements for doing these things. They have to swallow the bitter reality that if you want to do any of these things, or other impressive displays of skill, technique etc - you have to put in the time and effort for it. For video games however, to make up for their feelings of inadequacy or insecurity - they're reframing skill requirements as gatekeeping because in this scenario, there is someone they can go crying to, that's in a position to actually do something about it. Instead of looking inwards and saying; "What am I doing wrong? How can I fix it?" - they have an easy out by saying "How can I blame others or shift accountability?"

if you think movement techniques are gatekeeping then i'll support the gatekeeping movement

Everyone that complains about this are the type to buy a guitar, practice for 3 days, and then give up. Literally takes like 7 straight days of 20 min of practice and you can do almost any tech that isnt frame perfect, people just dont want to do the work

3:20 :]

Movement is defense

complex movement for hardcore platyer: challenging and cool filthy casuals: gatekeeping and unnecessary - what a bunch of bums

My argument is so what if it's gatekeepy or elitist? Why do gamers strive for soulless perfection and "games should be for everyone" mindset. Why can't we have cool mechanic like kbd? I've seen TGO players with good fundamentals who don't kbd at all. If that's the case HOW is it gatekeepy?

@zach4281

9 ай бұрын

The argument is that locking the core, fun elements of the game behind execution sucks. And they’re right, it does suck that there’s something you’re gonna take months to master before you get to unlock a “real” playstyle. Not everyone has the time or patience for that. I never would have bothered getting into Tekken if I started as an adult. That said, I really enjoy the mechanic having learned it. I think we could use a side game with a backdash button to test it out, like that weird one Eliza’s from. Also no shot you saw a TGO who doesn’t use kbd. Tgo is too hard to hit not using everything you can. Likely either a cheater or someone fucking around doing like a challenge

@atuls55

9 ай бұрын

@@zach4281 But there are much easier workarounds that work well for most levels like backdash cancel into sidestep then backdash repeat. I did that through most of the Tekken series before learning KBD.

You should've played Virtua Fighter 3 and 4.Those games had amazingly deep movement mechanics that have since beel watered down/removed in the latest VF. kzread.info/dash/bejne/gneLuMObmMe6g6g.html This one from Ryan Hart one of the only top level players of both Tekken and VF kzread.info/dash/bejne/hqammKWId6-qeNI.html VF3's movement was easier to do and on the hands thanks to the dodge button which doubled as a movment assist button.

The first time I ever saw KBD in my life I was like what tf is this, are they having a seizure, why are they moving like that 😭 it looks extremely goofy and is something I honestly don't care about learning. And I am absolutely content with that. I've been playing Tekken since I was seven or so, I love the game to death, I enjoy playing it and I know that if I don't put an effort into learning the more advanced mechanics I will be just an ok player, at best. People who are saying KBD is gatekeeping probably don't even wanna master the game and become pro players or whatever, they're just mad they got their ass kicked online a few too many times by a guy that moves like a weirdo 😂

Oh you like movement and you dont care about gatekeeping? Go ahead and play magneto in Marvel 3. Ill wait.

People who don't like movement are either victims of severe skill issue or never saw a single match of Q3A/TF2/airdasher fighters

@tekkenjam

9 ай бұрын

I could wreck you in all those and still think KBD is dumb.

@tabkg5802

9 ай бұрын

@@tekkenjam yeah sure champ

@KoufalKoufax

9 ай бұрын

lol sure@@tekkenjam

@tabkg5802

9 ай бұрын

it absolutely isnt lmfao. Quake and TF2 movement can get SIGNIFICANTLY more demanding than KBD@@aaym2224

why wouldn't people just learn how to do it? Just takes a little practice

@dondoken1353

9 ай бұрын

idk, many dumb comments like "ohh, I don't want to get a wrist injury" or "ohh, you elitists want movement to be hard to gatekeep people" or "ohh movement shouldn't be hard, it's a basic part of the game, that's why newbies are scared to play Tekken". Dumb people want to get rid of the thing which made the game great in the first place

@redhood2594

9 ай бұрын

@@dondoken1353the exploit that was never meant to be in the franchise in the first place is what makes it great, geez, no wonder nobody wants to play Tekken and deal with guys like you

@redhood2594

9 ай бұрын

The problem is that high level movement obviously is not gonna be required if you’re just playing casually However, the game’s movement is extremely slow and boring without it, practically forcing you to learn it, which is something you already know you don’t want to or can’t do Anime fighters, KOF, and smash all avoid this issue by still being enjoyable even when you have no idea what you’re doing, Tekken is THE ONLY game with this problem and has pretty easy fixes to it, but hardcore Tekken players don’t want those fixes, they want more fake depth that makes them feel good for knowing, hence why it’s gatekeeping

@dondoken1353

9 ай бұрын

@@redhood2594 dw, I wouldn't want to play with pips of your kind in the first place so that's fine

@redhood2594

9 ай бұрын

@@dondoken1353 your kind? Imagine saying there’s no gatekeeping in Tekken and then acting like this. Genuine fatherless child behavior

It's not that these movement exploits are gate-keepy -- it's that they're just stupid. It's easier to make my character do an intricate martial arts move than it is for them to simply move backwards? That is so dumb.

@KoufalKoufax

9 ай бұрын

thats the same as saying gatekeeping lol

@br4ndyaw4l

9 ай бұрын

wym stupid? you're gonna have to do half of these movements to even play a majority of Tekken characters anyways😂

@ushi130

4 ай бұрын

Sounds like someone can’t kbd…

@ghosttrain42

4 ай бұрын

​@@ushi130 yeah, obviously i can't kbd - that was actually the entire point of my complaint, genius. do you feel clever for figuring that out all on your own? mouth breather.

@ushi130

4 ай бұрын

@@ghosttrain42at least i can kbd...

People that complain about something being "gatekeepy" are just too lazy to practice. You will not master EVERYTHING in a game that has depth, people just need to get over that fact. Also, making it too accessible means that players that hardly play will be able to perform **EFFECTIVE** higher level techniques without putting work into it, how astronomical would a person's sense of entitlement have to be to think this way.

It sounds like the people complaining about this are people fighting games weren't meant for. So why are they the ones being pandered to? Clown world.

People wanting to nerf movement in Tekken are like those who want the souls series to have different difficulty modes. If you can’t dedicate the time to learn the game. Don’t play it. It’s supposed to be challenging and we won’t sell our game’s identity as legacy players ‘cause someone is lazy. Not every new player wants to be babied. We were all new players once.

Complaining about KBD in Tekken is like going to Quake and complaining about bunny hopping and air strafing.. Just because people are better than you at it, you feel like its gatekeeping.. this new generation of people in general just don't want to have to try hard at anything. They want everything spoonfed to them and this is the real truth

@npc_blob1609

9 ай бұрын

Simply false. In Quake and most games, your movement is smooth and intuitive from the moment you pick it up, Bhopping is a tier above that which makes it feel like something additional to try when you want. In Tekken your movement is artificially limited and the baseline for being able to move how you want _is_ to start practicing that upper tier.

@ghosttrain42

9 ай бұрын

​@@npc_blob1609exactly

@KyeCreates

9 ай бұрын

​​@@npc_blob1609No offense but you literally just explained the exact same concept. Quake: running around -> bunny hop and other tactics, Tekken: backdash -> kbd. Kbd is not much of a difference neither since you can rank up characters to very, very high levels without insane movement.

@tekkenjam

9 ай бұрын

@@npc_blob1609 Completely agree this guy is an idiot. Quake the movement is intuitive and makes sense. Theres no reason why simply back dashing with back back should be more restrictive than kbd. Movement should be the simplest thing to utilize for everyone baseline especially in a fighting game. All kbd does is abuse a function of the game that should simply just be incorporated with a simple back back. However I have no problem if they give some characters KBD without the frame canceling as means of movement cause that would add to style of the game. Abusing frame cancels to reduce the game to whiff punishing and homer launches isnt Tekken to me. Learning opponents strings, addressing highs and lows, sidestepping and poking mind games is what makes Tekken good for me.

@KoufalKoufax

9 ай бұрын

then people just have to learn it whats wrong with that?@@npc_blob1609