Here’s the thing though, even with the whole reveal of the bomb. The person playing the artificer does not know that, they are wanting to take apart, and essentially kill one of the other party members because they construct. To the point of knocking them out and cutting them open. That’s pretty bad, I mean, none of that changes with the reveal that somebody else was talking about artificers being OP. It’s also the fact that the player doesn’t see what’s wrong with killing another character because “they’re like a mechanic”

@ramirezthesilvite

3 ай бұрын

Seriously, that's like if the warforged wanted to kill and dissect the artificer because they're curious about how organics work or something, and the DM just going with it.

@shaunabbott8078

3 ай бұрын

In my opinion, the op put themselves in the spotlight by making themselves a bomb, even if the character had no idea. This added an unnecessary level of stress on the op that may have exasperated the problem. I know that the artificer had no right to treat a party member like that. I think that the dm could have had the party find the remains of another warforged for the artificer to examine.

@raymondfisheriii791

3 ай бұрын

I think it’s also a thing where maybe that was one of the FLAWS of the Artificer: that they were unable to stop their curiosity and that it would potentially blind them to the negative effect their actions could have on others. This is really one of those situations where if it were played out better, it could’ve led to this whole interesting branch off where they discovered the bomb and the reasoning, but also helped the War-Forged through their trauma, recognizing the human reactions and effects the War-Forged is suffering from having to deal with this, and teaching them more about the dangers of going too far as an Artificer, turning the War-Forged’s original makers into a cautionary tail of sorts

@pkcounterspell5140

3 ай бұрын

Don't play characters who's flaw is to directly harm or kill other PCs. Vivisection and soul extraction aren't flaws, they're villainous Behaviour. And the Artificer doesn't seem to know about the bomb, so that's not an excuse.

@Nazo-kage

3 ай бұрын

@@pkcounterspell5140 now if the artificer was Only Talking about how they would love to disassemble the Warforged, but never does it. That would be one thing. The two players could even play around with it working together to make jokes about such a prospect. But actually knocking out the other PC an opening up their head? That has some very heavily triggering potential and should’ve been an obvious no.

It's not ragequitting to exit a toxic party...

@KnicKnac

3 ай бұрын

Agreed. Just politely excuse yourself and bow out. I did that to a group. Weren't toxic just wasn't my cup of tea.

@graveyardshift2100

3 ай бұрын

I actually did ragequit a toxic group. Among other things (including casual dropping the n-word) the final straw was another countless example of them just not knowing the rules of the game they had been playing for 5 years and then gaslighting me after I couldn't perfectly quote the exact page and words.

Sounds like a lack of communication, main issue of a lot of campaigns

The edit is interesting, but no, I think OP still should leave the party and table. Lack of communication isn't helping, but clearly the OP isn't having fun and his character agency is in jeopardy. Going to the original thread, the added context (yes, there is more) is pretty interesting, but I think OP should either stop playing or everyone should sit down and talk this out before continuing.

Nah, get out of that party. If a player starts bothering the character of another player on a daily basis I, as a DM, would tell everyone that enough is enough and from now on I would not permit it. I get a joke from the players, but here it's just not fair. The players are not letting OP play in peace.

One golden rule I always keep, is stay with a group(s) that you can get along with, both in and out of game. If they're the type to want to off your character, it may be prudent to just find another group.

If the party is being toxic, then it's okay to quit. Personally, they should've respected your character's wishes. As you mentioned, the Warforge's soul is attached to the core. If the Artificer screwed up, it would have severe consequences, most likely the explosive kind. Overall, communication is important also placing boundaries.

So the thing happening in story 1 is... It seems almost like the group bullies OP into believing their reaction is the problem. What the problem REALLY is, is one player ignoring the requests of another, deliberately and continuously engaging in unsanctioned and unwanted PvP, because "it's what their character would do", and breeching the trust of both player and character repeatedly. This is inexcusable behaviour. Whether OP heard "artificers are OP" right or not is completely irrelevant. What IS relevant, is the fact that the artificer player doesn't step back when they're told to, and the DM is enabling it. That story reeks of OP getting upset for very reasonable reasons, and the group gaslighting them into thinking they are the problem. Fucking *run*.

@DellikkilleD

3 ай бұрын

if you dont like how another member of the group behaves, leave. you dont get to tell others how to have fun, yuou *only* get to decide if you will participate

@1Kapuchu100

3 ай бұрын

@@DellikkilleD If someone else's "fun" is dependent on mistreating someone else and stepping over their boundaries, that's a problem. We're not talking about someone making a funny voice and another person simply disliking it. We're talking about one player blatantly ignoring the requests of another player, *and* the DM. That player shouldn't get to trample over other peoples' boundaries. That they do, tells me a lot about the kind of person they are. It's not a matter of "liking how they behave". It's not up to OP to choose to stay or leave, because they are not the one causing the problems. I don't understand why you're defending the person causing the problem in the first place.

@DellikkilleD

3 ай бұрын

@@1Kapuchu100 if you dont like it, the door is in the same place it was when you walked in. the individual doesnt get to change the group.

@adrianmcbride1666

3 ай бұрын

​@@DellikkilleDto some extent, but if the group is abusive then it is time for the group to change no matter whether they like it or not.

@gagefallon1566

3 ай бұрын

@@DellikkilleD Enabling abusive behaviour is a bad idea, retract your statement while you still can

Theres a lot of triggering issues at play here. Best advice- there's playing a complicated character and then there's playing a problem character and deciding that all other players just have to accept the problem and curate the entire game around your character.

Nah. Toxic parties are an immediate leave.

for that first story, I'd have turned on the whole party with "well you want pvp, i'll give you pvp", and I would fail my mission and let that whole thing loose on the whole party and the whole "my character is a hothead" yeah that's not an excuse, you act right or I act like a dick. You don't get to be however you want without consequences.

Maybe don't try to explore issues in DnD that trigger some sort of IRL trauma, specially if the rest of the party is not in on your IRL trauma and haven't explicitly said it's ok to introduce those themes in the story. Your DM is not your therapist and your co-players may (and probably will as any DM will tell you) drive the story off the rails. You won't be able to possibly predict where it will go. DnD is not your therapeutic safe space to explore these issues, that's what therapy is for.

so the party worked out the plot twist early, welcome to GMing

Honestly this is why I don't play online. Also the OP seems to have a short fuse. Not to mention that they can't mitigate issues.

around 2:00 mark its not what an artificier would do unless they are part of the arcane subclass, necromancers wouldnt really want a part of it either unless they wher planning on building a body and effectively becoming a lich

@nullflameborn3938

3 ай бұрын

both would have to be of the evil side of the spectrum from neutral evil onward as well due to the consent factor

Warforged player has legit complaints about artificer. Artificer finds complaints online and proceeds to gaslight warforged.

2nd Story. The other players might know about the bomb. Which is fine as long as you somehow revealed it while playing. Otherwise while it's cool that you are self reflecting, but it is ok to be a little mad on other players to interfere with your own character based on out of character knowledge. Because unless your group had some prior agreement to ok this, I do not see how an artificer opening up a Warforged in their sleep is ok in any context, because it should definitely constitute as PVP.

I wondered why he said Artificers are op. I play a Battle Smith, and while she's a lot of fun, she's not OP at all.

@DrPluton

3 ай бұрын

My artillerist can dish out some nice damage, but I fail to find anything overpowered compared to other classes.

@firestormgaming2243

27 күн бұрын

Artillerist can be busted with that friggin shield generator i should know its the reason my artificer survived a mind flayer and kept the party alive cause temp hp every round is nice

Trying to think about this happening around a table in the 80s, 90s or 2000s and I can’t see it happening.

I would say coup de grace the pcs when they are sleep then leave. Or just leave because sounds like the group is not going to work.

I had this happen, but in a good way. My character became the avatar of Zon-Kuthon in Pathfinder due to putting on some cursed armor. The armor could speak to only him and eventually corrupted him without most of the party knowing how bad he had gotten. The party was mostly chaotic good with one lawful good cleric (played by one of my longest friends) and they were treating prisoners well, not torturing, etc. My character would secretly do all of the bad things (think Hellraiser) to the prisoners and would make them disappear as well. Thinking back I was subconsciously channeling Pinhead as I was trying to convert the rest of the party to his god, so I wouldn't do anything to them and they had no proof of all of the secret stuff, except for the Cleric. My friend and I decided, outside of the game, that the cleric would eventually confront my character as an afront to his god and we got into an epic fight. Unfortunately, for the cleric, he never told the rest of the party of his suspicions and all they saw was the cleric starting to attack my character. He picked the perfect time as I was weak and out of abilities due to just finishing a fight, that he had hung back on. He had me on the ropes until the rest of the party attacked him, and ended up expelling the character from the party. It was a great bit of role playing and even better because the other players didn't know what was going on, but in the end they really enjoyed it when we explained what was going on.

4 minutes of story & 5 mins of explanation Man I miss the Golden Era of Ashtoshan Please I beg of you tell of a story rendition of Vecna

You what would have had ne raging? Getting blown as the end of the stroy.

Quite educational video about hearing one side of the story, as there was some misunderstanding but communication was needed regardless between players.

This was a journey

Wait the OP's character is a war forged but there's no warforged on the screen? I guess that doesn't break any rules but weird YIRBEL LIVES

I also feel like the op is a bit toxic...the topic of SUICIDE BOMBING...should be a topic discussed with everyone in a session 0. I get that you want the fun reveal of oh no, this horrible thing needs to be stopped somehow, probably right before it happens, but it could easily be a no go for some people. It could also be a situation where the other party members aren't triggered per se, but they have no interest in a story line like that because their character just wouldn't entertain solving it the way you want it solved.

@DellikkilleD

3 ай бұрын

lmfao. no. no one has a right to have input on someone elses char. if something is a 'no go' for you, dont play it. you dont get to decides others cant do your 'no go'

@jasminebryant4238

3 ай бұрын

Not sure if you understand what I'm saying or if I misunderstood the op. From what I understood, this aspect of their character was something that everyone had to interact with. It wasn't something that could be ignored by the party. If I'm mistaken, then yea, I agree. I shouldn't be able to control aspects of your character that don't effect me. But a suicide bombing character that wants to bomb a character that we all interact with...I disagree@@DellikkilleD

@DellikkilleD

3 ай бұрын

@@jasminebryant4238 disagree all you want, you are objectively wrong. yall over here acting like suicide bomber is equivlent to a pedo. its not. its being willing to sacrifice yourself to stop a greater evil. very noble, and a great rp idea.

@jasminebryant4238

3 ай бұрын

yea, god forbid there's a real world conflict that's happening now that may have someone not really comfortable with idea of suicide bombing and feeling like it's very noble...@@DellikkilleD

@DellikkilleD

3 ай бұрын

@@jasminebryant4238 your comfort has no bearing on facts tho, and I shouldnt be expected to pretend it does.

you talked about SESSION ZERO where questions like this are supposed to be answered. If you feel that something is wrong, then you mention it and mention why so the party will know. Then you still have the option with DM to change your character or do a retcon. If that does not connect, then you have the right to do anything. Starting with a quit and ending with sending them to hell and warning others not to play with them.

most classes are broken in thier own way. barbarian for damage (and carry if bear totem) paliden for armor cleric for healing and buffs (outside death domain) rouges for... well, anything not combat directly, and combat if working as a team bards for derailing the campane, but also buffs ect. each class is built by default... to specalize. but can easly be bend into any playstyle. on the note of bards tho. its posable in 5e to make a level 1 barbarian with a 32 AC, no magic items tho most hit the limit at 28 unless they know how to game the system

@funnyblog100

2 ай бұрын

The most broken build I had made was my college of whispers bard. He didn’t have a high ac and he was physically the weakest member of the party. The reason he was so dangerous was because due to his subclass he had an ability that functioned like a rogues sneak attack that dealt additional psychic damage on a hit using his bardic inspiration. He also had the sharpshooter feat for even more extra damage and the ability to ignore most forms of cover. I later gave him crossbow expert so he could attack more than once per turn. He also had aoe spells to deal with swarms. And I often coated my ammo. Safe to say he had a lot of burst damage packed into his crossbow. While most bards would be helpless if you cast silence on them this one could still absolutely wreck you if you were in range of his burst damage attack. There were few ways to counter him other than staying out of his sniper range or swarming him with enemies and trying to close the distance. The dm made the bard the primary target in combat encounters because he took down several boss level threats and absolutely destroyed encounters if he wasn’t taken out quickly.

Ngl Im so over the Martial vs Spellcasters fights. Spellcasters will always be "broken" thats kind of the point of spells. They dont follow the rules of the world. At the same time Martial are also broken, they have high single dps and survive fights far longer than spellcasters. Its the reason you need both in the game. Saying one is better than the other is simply because either you havent played the other or because you choose or build a character that is objectively weaker than it could be. Like overall spellcasters are generally "power built" due to having choose spells they will use for the day/all the time. Compared to Martial classes where you have to build for damage or tanking so its easy to see them being weak or strong. For instance Barbarians are crit fishers on average so they reckless attack all the time and when they deal insane damage due to the crits as they get to roll additional dice each time. And when you add subclasses they get either more damage or more tanking abilities. Compare this to wizard, they get a lot of AOE spells that and destroy encounters but thats why the game is designed around having multiple encounters in a day. If its only an one and done thing than what can you expect from spellcasters? They will obviously just spam 90 fireballs as they dont need to save anything for later if its only two encounters in a day compared to four or five.

I really enjoy this channel but, listening to some of these stories, some of these stories tell me a lot of people can't seem to handle real life. 🙄

@k11500

3 ай бұрын

I have the same thought

@Kalgori

3 ай бұрын

Same thought, I'm glad my table is full of mature adults

i feel like someone else got into OP's account and did that update.

@pkcounterspell5140

3 ай бұрын

Nah, gaslighting is one hell of a powerful tactic. That artificer still sounds like some insane evil Frankenstein pastiches that get played for black comedy. And the player really *shouldn't* try to kill their teammate.

martials are 1 v 1 the most powerful. at least sub 15 ish

Sounds like a bad group, but artificers are definitely not OP as someone who is playing as one

I can’t even understand what’s going on in the story because it’s jumping around.

Okay why don’t you just make artwork for each story?

I think that the original poster just got gaslighted.

1) Player decides to play as a _freaking suicide bomber,_ of all things, then feels like a party member who notices something is wrong and wants to fix it is "triggering" them and "violating their autonomy" and whatnot. Tries to use mental health issues as an excuse to act toxic. No, sorry, that's not how it works. OP is the problem here, and really needs to read up on stuff like CBT, which is basically a formalized system of slowing down and thinking through things rationally rather than just reacting to all the worst ideas the mental health issues whisper into your head. If not understanding this stuff is causing problems at the D&D table, it will cause problems elsewhere in life. 2) If OP's team has a bunch of things they can do well - which I don't doubt! - and still think OP is OP (no pun intended) for doing high levels of raw combat damage, it sounds as if they're not on the Same Page. They're trying to play a different game with a different emphasis than OP is. This really should have been hashed out in session 0, with something like the Same Page Tool to get all the expectations consistent.

@cabronxno

3 ай бұрын

Op isn't toxic in story 1 what? The problem is the artificer clearly, she's just doing stuff that wouldn't be allowed in an actual party. Like why would they stay together as a group if the artificer keeps trying to dissect the other player, if were talking about RP that would end with one definitely leaving the party or dead. Even if he/she is technically playing something that's not alive you should still go and ask permission to the other player before trying to dissect his character, which we can see she clearly didn't.

@masonwheeler6536

3 ай бұрын

@@cabronxno Once again, _suicide bomber._ That's bad enough. But then acting as if he has some sort of inherent right to not have his character's villainous secret discovered or thwarted? That's what pushes him from bad to toxic.

Sounds like your playing in Eberron and I would not play in that setting to begin with because it got artificers and robot people.

im sorry. your a walking bomb? ya im with the other two.. especially since one is a Artificer ( who is friends with the DM who is useing him to fix a problem, a bomb, really? ). oh it wasent the truth but it wasn't a lie. ya, another person who uses muh PTSD / ADHD / DEPRESSION ect as a blanket excuse to be horrible person. DM and other two, run from this guy.

@kingwildcat6192000

3 ай бұрын

agreed

I don't even need to watch this video to know the answer. No it is not "childish" to leave a toxic group, no DnD is better than bad DnD! I am going to assume that this is a best case scenario of merely attacking the player's character and not r*pe, but even then it is incredibly uncool to do! No one wants to play with a group going against you, even if there are IC reasons it should take OOC feelings into account.

@AssassinGTM

3 ай бұрын

OP admitted they flew off the handle a bit and likely exaggerated/made part of it up

@kingwildcat6192000

3 ай бұрын

I mean context matters. OP was first being a toxic spotlight hog/mcs (I forgot the correct term tbh) and when he was getting the spotlight but not the moment he wanted it he started freaking out and tried to use mental health as the way to get sympathy points from the internet. Overall it sounds like both sides of the table are toxic and the dm is failing to stop any of it.

@AssassinGTM

3 ай бұрын

​@kingwildcat6192000 100% this. I said something similar but it appears it's been removed, somehow still got this noti though lol

@thenerdbeast7375

3 ай бұрын

@@kingwildcat6192000 Then he should have just been kicked out of the group, be transparent with in their displeasure with his actions. Both parties are guilty due to inappropriate course of action taken. _pounds gavel_

From my understanding, martials are more balanced because they don't have access to the extremely large spell list that spellcasters do.

@kingwildcat6192000

3 ай бұрын

yep and overall they can be just as OP as spellcasters but people complain about spellcasters either due to op spells that ruin encounter and the dm didnt ban so it gets abused all the time or because the dm only plans like 2 encounters a day or lets the party LR anytime they want so spellcasters dont ever feel pressured to save spell slots during a fight.

@shaunabbott8078

3 ай бұрын

@@kingwildcat6192000 entirely true.

Asking if someone is childish for taking a game too seriously...let me think... lol

I can't imagine a fear of violence playing a table top game full of violence. Team mates were assholes though. I just couldn't imagine with half the enemies that try to grapple restrain strangle and kill you how dnd would be fun with that sorta pstd. But maybe it only matters if a team mate is doing it?

roflmao

What even is this story...?

Ragequitting is pretty childish. PVP and other expectations should be set in session zero. Fighters with Action Surge are pretty strong. Barbarians on the other hand have a rep of being under powered, although I don't share this opinion.

@schwarzerritter5724

3 ай бұрын

Barbarians are underpowerd in the sense they can't let out their power in a single burst like the other classes and they kind of suck when they run out of Rage. So I guess Barbarians are strongest in medium adventuring days.

@shadenox8164

3 ай бұрын

@@schwarzerritter5724 Barbarians are actually good at maintaining a fairly consistent damage yes.

@sleepinggiant4062

3 ай бұрын

@@schwarzerritter5724 - I disagree that a class needs burst power to be good. And running out of resources is bad for many classes. I feel like a non-raging barbarian is still rather effective in combat.

@schwarzerritter5724

3 ай бұрын

@@sleepinggiant4062 Burst power makes a class better when the dungeon master runs only one or two encounters per adventuring day. Non raging barbarians are not bad, but fighters and rogues are better.

Nah they’re toxic