I enjoy listening to your videos whilst painting miniatures - currently working on the gladiator figures from the Spartacus board game. Thanks for the great content!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

It's not the first time someone has told me that they prefer not to look at me. ;)

@user-ei4bk3xi5u

6 ай бұрын

Yes it is a two game game it is

Thanks for an interesting and well structured presentation. Not played these by look forward to doing so now.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Great video! Thank you so much for the work!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Danke!

Great video! Glad to see New Dawn get some love. I was quite taken with its innovative mechanic as well. I have yet to play TI:4, but I sure want to!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I hope you get a chance to play TI4 before too long. It's a fantastic game!

Cody you just keep cranking out all this amazing content! You are like best friend that I have never met. Question: If FFG was to print any new plastic units in an expansion for TI4 what would you prefer to see put in it? I think my top 3 would be Mechanized Ground Units, Tech Research Stations, Asteroid Field / Nebula Mining Ships. But yeah Distant Suns is a MUST!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah - like the idea of NPC civilian ships. But I'd love to see there variation of an AT-AT.

@dustbustus27

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah we got the Deathstar / War Sun. Wouldn't it be cool if these AT AT plastic disabled Planetary Shield like in Hoth!

Great list, thank you!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Great list!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Danke!

Really nice "episode" Cody, well done. I do have to say 4 things to you: 1) Ecplise, we are waiting together hah (got the Mat though...) 2) Twilight Imperium (I so hope we get to see an eventual expansion sooner rather than later...a way to add to the exploring part, but done better than in the third edition. Would absolutely love it) 3) Through the ages, you played it Cody? 4) I think there really is a room for some good civ building games in the future of game boarding :)

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I haven't played Through the Ages. I agree with all of the other points.

@Cerhob

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer Oh Cody... You NEED to play Though the Ages: A New Story of Civilization. You've helped me find so many great games, allow me to recommend one to you.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cerhob I want to hit it at some point for sure.

I am glad that Mara Nostrum made the list.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Fun game.

Cody, you are already our super hero...

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Ahhh..... ;)

So happy to see Civ: A New Dawn on this list so it gets some attention. This game got quite a beating when it was released and undeservedly so. It plays so fast and almost everything you expect from a civ game is in there in some genius abstract way. Now I sit here and wait for necessary expansions that probably will never come out.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I kept hoping for an expansion to improve combat. Maybe one day.

@j_atkinson

4 жыл бұрын

To me, Civ: A New Dawn is better than Tapestry for streamlined Civ games in about 2 hour time frame. It actually feels like "Civ" game unlike the way Tapestry doesn't for me.

@franciscoruiz6269

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer the day has come my dear!!!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@franciscoruiz6269 Indeed! Rejoice!

Space Empires 4X + Expansions is my favorite game of all time. Interesting enough, I have most games in your list, including Eclipse and TI4.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I love the sci-fi civ builder game!

@Matt-zp1jn

2 жыл бұрын

Exodus Proxima Centauri (Revised Edition) + Expansions is top 4x for me! It has everything you need with the Asymmetrical Races, Fully open Technology Research, Politics, Events, and REAL Battles with all the cool ships. The KS came with plastic stands for the spaceship mini’s, loads of extra hex Planets (same size as TI3/4), economy market, planet mining, Exploration module, Leaders, Regular 2-6 players, Semi-Cooperative, Solo, Cooperative modes! :) Saw Exodus Base game in the background of the video, so hopefully you at least got the first expansion or second one as they are absolute necessities to make this game truly shine as a perfect TI Lite Full 4x experience in only 2.5-4.5 hrs. Curious why it didn’t make your top 10 list?

"If you don't like TI IV, there is something wrong with you" :D Thank you Cody. The original Civilization is where it all started for me. I am still looking for this Holy Grail which would give me and 2-3 other players a full fledged Civilization building experience around the Mediterranean Sea in less than 3 hours. For the moment Eclipse is the one working for me the best (I also KSed it and waiting). Civilization a New Dawn, Nations and Britannia are great games also. I played TI III but it is so difficult to find 5 other like-minded beings having so many hours to spare. So, no TI IV for me at this stage.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

You need to find people to play it with you. They're out there, I promise.

@joelbergvonlinde1389

4 жыл бұрын

There is something wrong with me

Space Empires 4X is based on the 4x computer game by Malfador Machinations, Space Empires. I own copies of SE3, 4, and 5. The art work in the board game comes right out of SE4. The series is one of my favorite computer games of all time. SE3 is so old it's 16 bit and won't run on a modern system with out an emulator of some kind. 4 and 5 run fine though. I own a copy of AH's Civilization which was one of the inspirations for Sid Meier's game of the same name. With 8 players it can easily run 8 to 10 hours. My favorite Civilization Building Game of all time though is 7 Wonders.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic!

"Antike" by Max Gerdts is my most played civilization game. Always played with 4-6 players. Pretty much totally deterministic (no luck), but that's what the other players are for: To wreck your schemes. 1st game I played where you used the 'rondel' to choose your move. Playable in avout 2 hours. Another great game of his is "Concordia", where cardplay derermines your move, but the card choice system is like the 'rondel' on steroids.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Жыл бұрын

Cool. I haven't played that one but sounds fun.

Great list, I really need to find some people to play TI4 with. All of my gaming friends are in different towns and my family can barely make it through ticket to ride.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Жыл бұрын

Yes you do.

Awesome! Thanks Cody! Could we get a 2023 update?

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know about this year, but maybe down the road.

~ oh yea Cody, #7. You said "BUY IT!"... so I did (gonna play another 5 - player game this very evening, Thank you sir for the heads-up!). Ever play Martin Wallace's 'Tempus'? Picked up a copy at BGG for $7.00... a moldy - oldy but still quite fun to play (speaking of MW, extra-credit for your honorably mentioning 'Rise of Empires', a beloved old favorite of mine)...

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I haven't played the Wallace game. Perhaps somewhere down the road.

Cody built the Cody Empire City, not on rock and roll, but on cardboard, plastic and dice rolls.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Жыл бұрын

“While Cody plays the Maba/listens to the radio/don’t you remember…

@thegamesninja3119

Жыл бұрын

@The Discriminating Gamer we built the empire city on dice rolls!

I see from your shelf o’ games that you have a bunch of the Legendary card games. Have you seen the new James Bond entry in the series?

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I'm hoping to get a review copy before long.

TI4! Very good choice. I own a copy. Love it.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Indeed. Fantastic game.

"History of the World" is an excellent Ipad game.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed.

Through the Ages, Patchistory come to mind as well...

"Something is wrong with you" haha I agree, TI4 is something different.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

TI4 is fantastic, no question.

Every game on this list is a game I want or a game I already have. Really looking forward to Eclipse second edition, although I missed the kickstarter. I want to get TI4 but I feel like it'd be mostly something cool to look at as I'm not sure I can find people to play it.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Find people to play it - go to the internet to round people up. PLAY IT. TI4 is the best!

@femmedracula6857

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer I'm thinking of trying local game stores as well. We have four adults who like to game here but not all of us like competitive games.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@femmedracula6857 Understood.

I wholly concur with you on Twilight Imperium needing distant suns. Without eXplore, it stops being a 4x and its just a 3x game. It is also my favorite game (tied with Here I Stand). And you need to bump up Clash of Cultures, it and AH's Civilization are the top two traditional Civilization games out there. It can at least supplant History of the World (a game I love), as that one is missing the eXploit & eXplore aspects of civilization games. Overall, I like your list. My only veto would be Eclipse, though I'm not fond of SE:4X (subjectively a lot of work for the return on fun).

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I've heard that Clash of Cultures is getting a reprint, so maybe it will. I really enjoyed it, but I believe that it really did need a bit of streamlining. I enjoyed Here I Stand, but I played it a long time ago. TI4 was my favorite game, until I played War Room a few months ago. Amazing game.

@henryrodriguez6260

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer You thought it needed streamlining, huh? Our games were 2.5-3hrs, which is pretty short for these types of games. I need to try War Room then. Thanks!

Cody... A LONG time ago, I bought (maybe) the original "Civilization" from AH, back in the day. One thing that came to me right away... I didn't know that many people to play with. Kinda puts a damper on things. I did, recently, buy Mare Nostrum and its expansions... still looking for enough people to play that one. Some of us don't have a lot of people who are game to play it with.***I know you are doing your Ph.D on World War II... have you come upon a lot of research of the Lebensborn Project? IF so, can you share your sources with me... thanks.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Have you tried looking at Facebooks groups in your area. Honestly, Facebook has been a huge help for me finding new people to play with over the years - especially when I moved to Texas. Most of my current research is on American generalship in the war. I did a lot on Nazi Germany for my MA, however. Don't really have any good primary sources for Lebensborn - you might want to try the Bundesarchiv the next time you're in Berlin. In the meantime, have you read Heather Pringle's The Master Plan? It touches on a lot of SS racial theory and intellectuals. One of the best books out there on the RSHA is Michael Wildt's An Uncompromising Generation, though I don't recall how much (if at all) it goes into Lebensborn.

I'm suppprised that I didn't see Exodus on the list. I am so used to seeing it on your shelf, that I thought it would be a favorite of yours. Also you should really replay Eclipse. It's an amazing game that I feel does a lot of things that TI4 does, but better. Not everything but a lot. Please don't hate me. LOL

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I am awaiting the Second Edition. I play it then. I like Eclipse a lot, but it doesn't hold a candle to TI4 in my book. I have yet to play Exodus. Had it for years, but still haven't got it to the table.

I just recently discovered Civilization a new Dawn since FFG published an official brand new SOLO mode for it. WoW I was so impressed...

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

3 жыл бұрын

I haven't seen the solo mode variant. Perhaps at some point I'll check it out.

TI4 is my second favorite game of all time. Love it. Hard to top it. Needs some expansions.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Yes. Yes it does!

@RandomPerson-nd2ey

4 жыл бұрын

So, what's your favorite?

@teslavoltagames3208

4 жыл бұрын

Random Person Terraforming Mars

Star trek ascendancy expansions are hard to get.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Some more than others.

i just can't get over the fact that all players in TI4 have the same ship models.. as someone who has played hundreds of hours of master of orion back in the nineties this is just a deal breaker for me.. i wish they would release an (understandably much more expensive) version of the game with different models or a ship pack/expansion like the one eclipse (first edition) had..

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I watched a video where they were talking about it. Originally, the plan was to release each faction with their own ship models. However, it was decided that it would be too confusing for most players to learn what everybody else's ships were on sight - and I can see their point. When playing a game, you want to process information as quickly as possible (particularly in a game like TI4, where AP can be a problem). It would take players forever to memorize which ships belonged to what class for what faction, or they would be constantly consulting player aids. I agree that it is a cool idea, but the reality is it would slow down the game.

@MoragTong_

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer You could do it by color or size...ie they are modeled differently, but the size would denote type.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@MoragTong_ Color already denotes faction. I don't think size would be good - given the number of ships, there wouldn't be enough size differentiation to make them quickly identifiable. Also, in that same video, they mentioned that if each faction had their own ships it would have made the costs go up considerably.

So, where mosaic fits in this list, and Civ New Dawn with expansion?

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Ай бұрын

Perhaps its time to update this list.

Nice top ten! But you missed "BIOS Origins" :).

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Жыл бұрын

How could I miss it? I've never played it. Thanks.

We should name those games : "top games that can end relationships" ;)

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

3 жыл бұрын

Ha!

There is something slightly misleading in your Ancient Civilizations of the Inner Sea part: The Player disks are no Talents - the white disks are used for the treasury box (page 5 of the rulebook).

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the correction.

ascendancy and ti-4: my last year

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Great games!

My Top Civilization Building Game is...Civilization.😃

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Жыл бұрын

Good call.

Even though this video is a year old...just wanted to say “Thanks man, you made me spend over 130 bucks on games!” Ancient Civs looks like it wont be long before it’s only going to be available on Ebay. Also ordered Age of Napoleon as well. I’ve been playing Mare Nostrum and really like it. Havnt tried Civ A New Dawn yet....it’s on my shelf though. Good stuff. I particularly like historical games and WW2 was also my initial interest in history and subsequent intro into games (Avalon Hill)

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

3 жыл бұрын

Fantastic! You are welcome sir. Axis and Allies was my intro into gaming, and caused me to get a PhD in military history.

@gowensbach2998

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer I have been a big fan of A&A. I got the anniversary edition...which wont fit on my game shelf! Also found the hasbro pc version of Iron blitz ( which was one of my favorite board games ) and got it working. A&A was great because non wargamer types liked it too.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

3 жыл бұрын

@@gowensbach2998 You need to play War Room. Like A&A x 1000

@gowensbach2998

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer Was just now looking at that on Steam.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

3 жыл бұрын

@@gowensbach2998 I was referring to this: kzread.info/dash/bejne/dqqVk7qAd6iyaKg.html

Maybe I’m old school but where is AH’s Civilization?

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Never played it.

@Socialdogma

4 жыл бұрын

The Discriminating Gamer Well, that explains it. LOL

@vinnymalone8210

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Cody AH civilization is well worth playing.....still my favourite civ game!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@vinnymalone8210 I would like to try it sometime. I had a buddy who had it back in Utah, but I left before we got a chance to play it.

@koomo801

4 жыл бұрын

AH's original Civilization (the Tresham classic, not the Sid Meier "take") is so much my #1 that I probably would leave ranking spaces 2-5 blank! And to show that one doesn't have to be a baby boomer or Gen X-er to like it, I first played it in 2018. I hope you get to try it sometime. Add the trading card expansion if you are playing with mostly euro-gamers, otherwise they may object to getting punched in the face too often by the catastrophes.

In college I bought a lot of big and ameritrash games because I didn’t know about BGG. I bought Sid Meier’s Civilization (the FF one) and took it out one night to play with some suitemates. As we took the first turn a friend went into her dorm to go to sleep. As we were finishing the last turn she came out of her room and said “you’re still fucking playing?” It had been at least eight hours. But I won... I won... and they never played board games again that year.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Ha! Great story!

I'll have to try Ascendancy again and remind myself that it plays like Star Trek and might not have combat happen😅

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Ha. I really enjoy it!

@LeeroyPorkins

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer One of my favorites is Heroes of Land Air and Sea

Ancient Civs of the Inner Sea seems to have been pretty badly recieved as far as I can tell, but this puts it back on my radar :) Games not on the list, that I really like: Nations, Deus, Trade on the Tigris and Sid Meiers Civ (FFG 2010)

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I haven't played any of those.

@cafecomescrita

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think it was badly received, I mean, Marco Arnaldo didn't like it but it did quite well in my group.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@cafecomescrita And they just announced a sequel to it - Inner Civilizations of the Middle East.

@joelbergvonlinde1389

4 жыл бұрын

Recanto do Guerreiro Ah ok, maybe I should watch his review then. I am mostly basing it on comments on twitter and bgg

@cafecomescrita

4 жыл бұрын

@@joelbergvonlinde1389 this very channel - The Discriminating Gamer - reviewed it as well, the impressions here at the gaming club I attend to was more in accordance with his review than that of Marco's.

Have you tried Tapestry? I hadn’t heard about it and I can’t imagine it actually is worth the money. Is it?

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Haven't played it yet. Maybe somewhere down the line.

@user-hk5fo1nm9h

4 жыл бұрын

The Discriminating Gamer I’m kind of burned out on Civ games and when I hear about one that’s over a hundred dollars with pre printed minis that only act as Tetris pieces I get kind of cynical.

Some of these seem more like 4x or Empire-building rather than civ builders.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

2 жыл бұрын

I think the terms are pretty broad.

have you played Medioevo Universale ?

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

3 жыл бұрын

I have not.

Civ: New Dawn being pretty high really surprised me. I was hoping that it would scratch a civ itch in a quick time for me, but it just didn't give me a Civ feel. Felt too much like an abstracted Euro to me, with an anti climactic ending. I'd rather play Mare Nostrum Empires in a bit more time, or any of the games you had before it. Clash of Cultures with the expansion is my #1, eeking out Exodus.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I've got a copy of Exodus, but I still haven't played it. I don't know, I just really enjoyed Civ: A New Dawn quite a bit.

@TylerDeLisle

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer wow really?! I've seen it over your head for years now. For me, it takes the best parts of TI, expounds on them, cuts out the parts I didn't like, and cuts the time in half. It's more along the lines of Clash of Cultures but with an even more fleshed out tech tree, faster expansion and more combat. It eschews the cold war and objectives of TI for VP from combat and straight up weapons of mass destruction. Especially with the first expansion that flesh it out a bit more. I'm in North Dallas maybe I'll have an opportunity to treat you to it some day.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@TylerDeLisle I will have to play it sometime for sure. The reason I still have it is because it looks like a game I would love.

Another one that was missed: BIOS Origins.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Жыл бұрын

Haven’t played it. Fun?

@PeterKelley

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer It is Phil Ecklund quirky but really good. A lot of game in a small box.

Clash of Cultures so low :( Wonder why Exodus:Proxima Centauri isnt mentioned since it is very similar to Eclipse and doesnt need to hide, especially with the expansions. (it's on your shelf, right behind you)

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

And would you believe, I still haven't played it yet. :(

@flyworld9620

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer shame, shame, shame

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@flyworld9620 Ha!

No Wingspan?!?!

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Never played it.

Have you played western empires

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

7 ай бұрын

I have not. Good?

Sorry to see that you did not include the original in the top 10. It is definitely in my top 5: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/71/civilization

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I have never played it.

@lone_pathfinder

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer See if you can find it and have a team of 4-6 with 4-6 hours spare.

I must need help then :)

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I'm afraid you do. ;)

Could you put the games list in the comments plz so I don't have to keep going back to the video and pausing it

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Ah! But that would ruin the drama!

@procrastinatingperfectioni278

4 жыл бұрын

I keep rewatching the drama but I just want to look up the games. Maybe put it in the comments after a couple of weeks then.

A 6-hour game is not a long game. After playing Mega Civ, a 10 hour game turns to a game that is too short.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

3 жыл бұрын

A six hour game is a long game by most standards. There are of course longer games.

1st up I Hate TI4... Because I spent money on TI3 & expansions. 2nd I have History of the World The Avalon Hill version. I do love this game. I am curious as to the differences other than the plastic pieces. Probably get hate for this but I like the looks of the AH version better as it looks less cluttered. The rest I have not played. But would like to especially ST Ascendancy.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I spent money on TI3 & expansions as well - and I got my money's worth over the years. I can understand being upset with new editions (i.e. Star Wars: X-Wing 2nd Edition), but TI4 really is a superior version. The streamlining of certain mechanics makes it worth it.

@douglaspearson1647

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer I can live with those I guess but the worst was Game of Thrones LCG. I enjoy the game and within days FFG canceled the 1st ed and came out with the 2nd. I feel I was ripped off by this one. There should have been an up grade kit. They did with Dominion.

No mention of 'Through the Ages'. Booo! Booo! Aside from thta, great video.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@gowensbach2998

3 жыл бұрын

It’s HIS top ten, not yours. I wouldnt put TtA in my top ten either, but I do play it here and there digital version. Cheers

You are a Ph.D. in history and the top 4 civ-building games are sci-fi?? Where is Through the Ages, Nations, Colonists? I one way I agree with you - "the great historical civ-builder" just isn't there yet. Maybe you can take a year or two off and design it?

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

HA! I suppose I can just live on creative energy that year? I love history. But I've always had a major soft spot for Sci-Fi themes in games!

where's through the ages? best civ game

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

2 жыл бұрын

Not here.

Hmmmm Nations?

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

I have this kooky rule about games I include on my lists - I have to have played them.

@deanofgames4661

4 жыл бұрын

The Discriminating Gamer yeah those silly rules get in the way.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@deanofgames4661 Ha!

Mare Nostrum is one of my favourite games but has nothing to do with "Civilization". I mean nothing at all. How can you say it's a Civ game? Same for History of the World.

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

Жыл бұрын

I guess it depends on what your criteria is.

@Gyftomancer

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer Then should I guess that you mean those games have a "civilization feeling"? If this is the point, I think I didn't hear it in the video.

I found the card decks of ascendency so terrible it ruined the game for us. Random, and broken in some terms. If you draw a bad card and it wrecks your early on, you're pretty screwed vs the player that gets a boon

@TheDiscriminatingGamer

4 жыл бұрын

That hasn't been my experience with it.

@drbasseri

4 жыл бұрын

@Plastic Emperors it's not really, though is it? TI4 is a a negotiation game. A bad beat vs another player allows negotiating; one player has the higher ground because of the battle and can extort things from the loser. There was direct interaction. In STA, it's you getting a bad beat vs a deck of random cards that dont make any sense. What's the negotiating in that? "Hey everyone, I just lost my ship exploring whereas yall got a boon. Dont attack me pls...."????