Good or bad. Possible or impossible. We all die when we die. The only thing we can know for certainty is that we have the ability to experience some form of life right now and we should appreciate that wholeheartedly and do everything we can to create meaning and enjoyment out of it.

@Jan96106

6 жыл бұрын

Lucretius also argued that. He said we should enjoy life so that we have no regrets when we die. And he added that if we aren't enjoying life, it is foolish to long for more of it.

@kx7500

10 ай бұрын

But that appreciation could just be another thing that will be reversed some day

Interesting and insightful discussion!

We don't fear death really. We fear the cause of death.

@bogbog

3 жыл бұрын

@Kevin w i for one is very excited to find out what's after death.

So, I should stop punching lions?

@TheCosmicPope91

6 жыл бұрын

If you have to ask, you have your answer.

@sofia.eris.bauhaus

6 жыл бұрын

you should ask the lions.

Good videos and analyses in general, but the argument for the symmetry of later death / earlier birth was so incredibly flawed… an earlier birth through an earlier formation of our universe would change strictly nothing to us. It would not be noticeable and not give us a longer life, since we would still die at the same age. So it's normal that this should not matter to us at all. On the other hand, a later death means a death at a more advanced age, so a longer life. Your argument of earlier formation of the universe is as ridiculous as saying that if the universe had formed 30 years later, my life would last 30 years longer… How can someone even defend such argument seriously?? And more generally, without the universe formation difference, an earlier birth never implies a longer life. Stating that being born 10 years earlier is the same as dying 10 years later is being oblivious that being born earlier does not imply a longer life. For it to imply a longer life, you would need the date of death to be fixed. However, a later death does directly imply a longer life because the date of birth is fixed. And finally, while we cannot influence the time of birth (especially in the example of the formation of universe, which we have absolutely no control over), we can in fact often influence the time of death. As you yourself mentioned, you can do sport, have a healthy diet, avoid risks, keep healthy, etc, and this is likely to increase your life span. The advance of medicine and the improvement of hygiene and nutrition are also a quite evident things that have increased people's lifespans over the years. It just seems so obvious that the time of death is not comparable to the time of birth… If I have missed out on a flaw in my argument, please point it out to me through a comment.

@krzysztofgowacki3758

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not convinced about the fixed birth/not-fixed death argument. Fixed or not by whom, or from what perspective? As I see it, we operate on the ceteris paribus condition in both cases.

Great video.

I'm not scared of death. I'm scared of not leaving a lasting mark on this earth. I'm scared of not being remembered. I don't understand how people can be afraid of the unknown. I am afraid of not being able to do all the things I want to do. I'm afraid of missing out on all the things that I never experienced.

@Jan96106

6 жыл бұрын

Lucretius said you should live your life as fully as you possibly can, so you don't have regrets at the time of your death. But psychologists say that as you age that is the task you will be faced with: reconciling your actual life with what you hoped it would be and coming to an acceptance of what you ended up with as opposed to what you wanted. This reconciliation is necessary for a healthy psyche. It is self-destructive not to achieve such reconciliation, making the years that remain more difficult, an outcome that harms you rather than helps you.

The fear of death is an emotional, evolutionary adaptation to promote survival. It isn't rational, though it may correlate with rational reasoning. That said, the will to live and desire to be happy is _also_ an emotional, evolutionary adaptation, just the same. Every aspect of this discussion is rooted in subjective, personal values. Personally, I don't see the point of forming these arguments.

@RamzaBeoulves

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

@Chaosism

6 жыл бұрын

+Philosophical Overdose I hear you, but I still believe that fear merely _correlates_ with rational reasoning. So yes, assuming a basis of not wanting to die or suffer harm, avoiding hazardous heights would be a rational decision. And sure, this can become irrational when a person maintains a fear of heights even in perfectly safe situations or takes overly extreme measures to avoid it. However, fear is an emotional behavioral compulsion, and while it often reaches the same conclusion as the aforementioned rational reasoning, this doesn't make that underlying compulsion rational. Rational would describe the means by which a conclusion is reached and not just the conclusion. Fear is something induced _outside_ of rational thought; it's a separate influence entirely.

@TheCosmicPope91

6 жыл бұрын

Goddamn this redeems my view of arguments in youtube comment sections! Thank you gentlemen.

@Chaosism

6 жыл бұрын

I understand you, here. It's still rests on a personal, subject foundation of values. I don't really see the point of the argument featured in the video. Is it better to exist or to not exist? That seems to be a core question in the matter of placing a valuation on death.

@sofia.eris.bauhaus

6 жыл бұрын

avoiding destruction is intelligent. whatever problems you may face, you can only solve them alive, therefore death is harmful to petty much anything you might want to achive.

I feel like the flaw in the argument is obvious. What matters is not when you were born or when you die, but the amount of time between the two events. Most people don't say they wish they were born earlier because they assume that also means they're more likely to die earlier. The reason we care more about the time of our death than the time of our births is that, since the time of our birth is already fixed, the time of our death determines how long we will live.

its not about being born or dying earlier or later, its about the experience and meaning of living. if you have lived a full life, and died happy or for something good, then your death is not unfortunate. if you die young, painfully and unfulfilled, then it is unfortunate

I would also reject the first premise because all experiences of life give us an experience of life and so it doesn't matter so much when that life takes place but that one experiences it while it is taking place. I would argue that it is irrational to fear death because we can't avoid it anyway. It's like fearing a test while it is being passed out. It's too late to study and so, while fear may physically exist in ones being, there's no logical way it can help us pass the test. Living is easier than tests in a lot of ways because, assuming (and this is quite a big assumption, yes) that the point of existence is to experience it, then no amount of time being alive before death has failed in that purpose.

Great video! I like the logical step-by-step style of reasoning. Really expounds on each point clearly and thoroughly.

I think it would be best if I always existed. Of course in a manner that allows me to be me right now, but it is bad that I likely won't get to experience far into the future or into the past.

I don't fear death .like most people i face death every day, i fear losing time with my loved ones

Only the wicked should fear death not the righteous

The opening made sense. But then when you got the premises, you unfortunately stopped making sense.

I'm not at all afraid of death, just the process of dying. I actually was born in 1957, and went to school with children who'd had polio and other diseases that can be prevented or treated now. Every decade since has increased the likelihood of me living longer, and with less illness, than the decade before. What I do fear is dying in pain, and not be able to access Doctor assisted suicide because my brain deteriorated before the 6th month window of approval that Canada allows. That condition needs to change, as well as the one that doesn't allow people with no quality of life to choose to die with the help of their doctor or nurse.

But even if it were possible that the whole universe be "born" 30 year earlier then your death would also be earlier.

Not a day goes without me being annoyed about the uncertainty of time of death (excluding suicide, of course). Making long-term decisions is almost impossible.

Future tends to be better than past.

@gurumage9555

6 жыл бұрын

Except the future where we nuke ourselves off the face of the earth.

@JamesPeach

6 жыл бұрын

Two very valid points.

@benjamingarcia2299

5 жыл бұрын

dont be so sure

seems obvious that premise 1 is wrong, if early birth results in more years to live

Maybe look at free will instead to explain our fear of death? Do we have control over our fate? Maybe fear of death is anxiety from our belief that we do have control over our fate and that we are scared of causing our own premature death.

If the goal is a longer life span then the argument falls apart since being born 10 years later increases the probability of a longer life span with higher quality of life. Being born 10 years earlier has a shorter probable life span.

I neither can accept the first nor the second premise and I don't know if it's just my reasoning. I reject the first premise because the additional years of experienced pleasure would be great. Anyway I could accept the first premise if I would experience more pain than pleasure. But the whole premise is in my opinion entirely subjective and therefore really difficult to use as a starting point for an argument. The second premise is also bad because the experienced time in the past is not in all cases the same as the experienced time in the possible future. This doesn't mean that the future is always better, but it means that the symmetry between ten years earlier and ten years later does not exist.

So basicly I shoul not be afraid of commiting suicide.

Eh, I don't think this is the best argument to not fear death. I really don't even see a connection. I much prefer Socrates response to dying.

@mozorellastick2583

3 жыл бұрын

Isn't fearing an early death because u don't want to lose the pleasures of life, instead of being sad that u died early, shouldnt u be just as upset that u weren't born earlier to experiences a longer life? That's lucretius' argument

But you worry about an earlier death because in some situations you have a degree of control over dying, being born you have no control over

The goal is to extend your life in your physical being, not just to have existed for the same amount of time a little sooner. The idea of every thing happening 30 years earlier while remaining the same is irrelevant because that litterally changes nothing of how things happened or how long your life will last so why was it even mentioned? I personally would have preferred I were born either 5-10 years earlier or later than I was. Not to extend my life, but to change who I am now. I don't just want every thing have some how happened 5-10 years in prior or later because I would not be effected in any way, there for not extending the length of my life, or changing my interests. I should also mention that I don't want to get hit by a bus tomorrow. Not because I just don't want to die tomorrow, but so I could experience the time after I would be hit by a bus. All and all I would say your argument is well thought out, but basically irrelevant. We fear death because we don't want to miss out on the future. There is nothing irrational about that. The irrational part is fearing what, if any thing, comes after death. So whether you believe in heaven and hell, nothingness, rebirth, or even just eternal darkness, it's the fear of pain and not knowing what comes next that keeps us up at night.

I disagree with Lucretius. I've been told plenty of times that I sound like I'm from the 1950's and that I was born at the wrong time, and I agree. I'm not the only person to be described as being born at the wrong time or in the wrong place.

@anthonymagana9237

4 жыл бұрын

Lol

The power is in the water. The water is language. Language is water. Water is matter. Matter is energy. Energy is matter. Bodies are matter. Matter is enegy. Energy is matter. Bodies are energy. Energy is neither created nor destroyed. It is either stored or transfered. That's infinite. If time travel is in fact possible. And, it is. And the fourth dimension is the perception of time. And time is relative to perspective in relation to time. And, each of our perspectives are different. And our perspectives are directly tied to our emotions. And we keep talking... What do you think is going to happen? Consider this in your next discussion of current solutions and solutions. Your argument is based upon the concept of time as a linear path demarcated by arbitrary numbers. Beginnings and ends. But, these concepts do not exist on higher planes. Death is a door. In the same way we enter this life through another. When one opens and another closes is but a matter cosmic coincidence and strange synchronicity. Vibrational energy. It's everything. Check your DNA. Some are born Knowing. Others Learn. When is a matter of time and decision. Can we live forever? Who did you refer to to validate your position?

@Voidsworn

6 жыл бұрын

Bryn Whitehead uh...no. "Vibrational energy?" Not a thing.

@brynwhitehead1731

6 жыл бұрын

Voidsworn Philology is the art of reading slowly. www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/daily_videos/can-trauma-be-passed-to-next-generation-through-dna/

@Voidsworn

6 жыл бұрын

Bryn Whitehead that has nothing to do with " vibrational energy". That ultimately has to do with stress affecting DNA expression which is one of the factors involved in epigenetics. Ha, just read the article after I posted this ...I suspected the article was going to be about epigenetics and I was right.

@ThePhilanderingPhil

6 жыл бұрын

Voidsworn Traumatic stress induced biological change in the genetic material of one group of people. Oppressed people. Vibrational energy. What is this? How was it that you found yourself here? The organization of pixels emitting light at different wavelengths expressed as color in shapes recognized as letters placed in synchronistic order creating words as a result of electric impulses in the brain transferred to a pane of glass by expressed as vibrational energy? That's a two way mirror. Look, let's cut the past the bullshit. If you are who you say you are we need to speak in person. That's the nature of things. I'll tell you the story of how I got my name.

I don't much care for P2, which strikes me as a form of begging the question ("If it's not bad to be miss an earlier birth, then it's not bad to miss a later death." WHY??) However, I don't find his arguments against it very convincing, either. If I am born thirty years earlier, but the universe (or at least my part of it) also started thirty years earlier, so that everything I will ever come into contact with is at exactly the same point as for my actual birth in the current timeline... then for all intents and purposes, wasn't I born at the same time? And if I then die at my "this-universe" time in that "thirty-years-earlier" universe (meaning I will have lived thirty years longer than otherwise) then there is exactly zero difference between the life of that me, and the life of the real me if I lived thirty years past my original date. Thus it's a null situation, which has no bearing on P2 either way. The reason a later death is preferable to an earlier birth is that (leaving religion out of it for the moment) I-me-ego am the sum total of my experiences, genetics/body being just one more parameter of my experience. Therefore, if I consider it "good" for I-me-ego to continue as long as possible, and therefore "bad" to have a shorter lifespan, then the person I want to continue for as long as possible is the one who has had the exact set of experiences that make me me. So anything that changes the experiences changes the person, and thus is just as "bad" as shortening the lifespan - either way, I-me-ego doesn't get the longer life. In reality, that means the person must be born where and when, and in the same body, as the I-me-ego that I know. However, if you want to shift everything forward by thirty years to accomplish the same thing, I'm cool with that - there's no practical difference I can see. (Sorry, I wasn't trying to get cutesy with the "I-me-ego" thing, but I needed a way to distinguish small-m me from the capital-m Me who is everything that I am.)

@mozorellastick2583

3 жыл бұрын

Can't you say the exact same thing about living in a different place. If my parents were to move to say south Korea when I was born, would the person in South Korea then not be me, but someone else that I can no longer call myself? I wouldn't say so. I believe that while they would have substantially different life experiences, I would still be able to be me. I could say the same about me born 20 years ago. While I would have had different experiences, would all parts of myself still not be me?

Maybe they fear death because of how they see the existence of life in a person ceases or taken away

I can see what you're trying to say, but when you rejected the first claim you failed to mention why. You dove right into the implications of a later birth being bad but never once explained why it should be bad. "Bad" is also a very fluid term, and you never told us in what sense you were using it. What, in your mind, is bad? Therefore this video is not really philosophy; it's just a synthesis.

All else equal and if your expected lifespan doesn't change, then it is consistent to not wish you were born earlier as to wish you will die later. If you were born 10 years earlier, you'd have 10 years less of life left, which is a worse state to be in, because you'd rather continue to live for longer.

@jlewwis1995

6 жыл бұрын

Other Mark "if you were born 10 years earlier you would have 10 years less of life" what? How would that be? You would live the exact same amount of time, you would just die 10 years earlier because you were born 10 years earlier...

@othermark8691

6 жыл бұрын

10 years less of life left - forgot to add "left"

The hell are we talking about here? What does longevity/length of life have to do with a shift of your lifetime in time? These are two different things..

@EmersonSisyphus

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, but it's more important to remember that bungee gum possesses the properties of both rubber and gum.

No you should not fear or try to prevent death

PSYCHOLOGY- LOSS AVERSION

I want to live longer to see scientific and technological advances (AI, find aliens etc). Because of that I fear to die early. In fact I want to live forever.

Wow. Talk about missing the point...

@sofia.eris.bauhaus

6 жыл бұрын

what point?

@fredericc.laurin9389

6 жыл бұрын

It's a hollow philosophic argument (typical of analytic philosophy) that evacuates the entire question of *meaning* in relation to death (and life). In essence, his main question "should we fear death?" is never even remotely answered: he simply skips it by his "Symmetry argument" (although, to be fair, his video was really about that argument, not about the actual question of death and meaning thereof).

@sofia.eris.bauhaus

6 жыл бұрын

well, the symmetry argument was the topic of the video. and it's an influential argument, and one i don't paritcularly agree with. it wasn't about the whole question of the goodness of life. perhaps there will be more videos regading this more general topic..

Ah, but we should fear death because if we die then we won't get to read all of Berserk and Hunter X Hunter because of their hiatuses.

@JamesPeach

3 жыл бұрын

Also One Piece, not because of hiatus but because it's a long story.

@EmersonSisyphus

3 жыл бұрын

@@JamesPeach Yup that too. And Tower of God- the manhwa is still on hiatus. And D. Gray Man. Can't forget D. Gray Man.

I don't want to die at all

No we shouldn,t

I think it would have been better for me to have been born 20 or 30 years earlier, because then I would have gotten to experience a more interesting period of history. ;)

No point to this discussion.

@mrjordan7304

5 жыл бұрын

New Kid deep

@TK-gd9td

5 жыл бұрын

It’s cause you’re looking for something to feel emotionally better about death. That’s what religion is for. It’ll make you feel emotionally better by lying to you about death. Like when humans lie to a terrified pet that they’re not going to the vet but you actually are. We all die and some of us are terrified and some are not. Ever wonder why? Philosophy speaks to logical side of your brain to help you understand why you have thoughts about death being bad or good. There’s 2 points right there. If you’re looking for a cure to death then go into medicine or pay money to people smarter than you to find cures and figure a way to enjoy your life while they work.

Whoever born after 1980’s and survives after year 2050 from where it’s takes a sex doll become your new body replacement with same memories being upload to server to storage it, forever immortal unless get serious disease or killed in accident! No worries if you have a life insurance and you will get other new robot bodies 👌🏻 Stay strong and survives! Don’t give up and you can still beat death! 👌🏻

I am getting a gun for protection

Is badness even a word?

@jonlouis5797

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, it is, friend

Because the past was rubbish. Have you ever seen Minder? The whole world looked like that in the 70s. Fuck that.

Nahhhhhhh

I still haven't watched the whole video so this might be referred to or somehow dismissed but I think that you could easily prove that the premise "It's not bad to miss on an earlier birth" is false because you would benefit much more from being born ten years later than you did because of all the medical advancements

@CDeruiter5963

6 жыл бұрын

+Marco C I thought the exact same thing. Although, then I suppose the question becomes: How would you know for certain you would experience dire conditions? Would an especially risk averse person or healthy person from old have lived to the same age as someone today?

Nobody wants to live in the past. The past sucked! My dad has a whole bookcase full of VHS tapes that have degraded to shit, and that all cost money. In the more distant past, we didn't have vaccines, and horrendous diseases like polio, measles, tuberculosis, whooping cough, etc ravaged our species. We have SO many fewer diseases now than we used to. We want to live into the future more because the future has cooler stuff like self-driving cars and wall-paper TV screens and an AIDS vaccine and so on. Also, many people today just wouldn't want to live without the internet and computers. I mean, who wants to live without free porn, endless amounts of free things to do online, and the ability to talk to people across the world for FREE?! You can make friends with some Chinese person living in China now. It's nuts how nice everything is!

I think this is why we tell stories about death. We need to have a fear of death to push us to live.

You cant see anything white or black

This is such a pointless video, we dont experience death, we just cease to exist as if we never excised in the first place. There is also no way to say that if the universe was created 30 years earier anything would be any different or the same, time as we experience it is a human construct. You will die when you do, there is no point thinking about it because you can only live, death is not part of our experience

In other words, if I was born 10 years earlier I would've been a black girl instead of a white man? Shiiiieet

Bull.

Thanks for wasting 8 minutes of my life