I prevent my panels from getting too hot by keeping them in the shade.

@everydaysolar

9 ай бұрын

Genius! 😂

@karan-ns8ry

24 күн бұрын

😂😂

@michaelhorton6881

24 күн бұрын

Even better if you keep them indoors

@itsmilan4069

23 күн бұрын

lmfao 🤣 nice one

@rockyjohn2919

23 күн бұрын

Good luck with the power gain.

Saves $4, almost $5 on electric bill. Water bill goes up $6. Celebrates with a $7 beer.

@pavel9652

4 ай бұрын

Water supplier have to spent 5x the energy saved to supply water ;) Entropy always grows.

@anekinoo7

2 ай бұрын

Dont forget cost of building a rig to get all your panels watered. Most people have 10-20 on a home setup. Single or small panel setup youre better off just wiping and cleaning by hand every month or so.

@RandoWisLuL

Ай бұрын

@@anekinoo7 its not about cleaning, its about cooling. cooler panels produce more power. you would need a water loop, idk why yall think you need to run fresh city water over the panels.

@annonymous6906

22 күн бұрын

Ugh... beat me to it! Probably more like "Save $5 on electric bill, Water bill goes up $20." Max this out by hooking up window units to your solar panels 🤣 Point is they are supposed to be passive. What's next, "we can increase wind turbine output by running unused 747 engines in front of them". Some people....

@TamissonReis

21 күн бұрын

Dude, this was a test on power generation. In my country many there are people that uses automatic gardening waterer to only reduce temperature when the solar get at determined temperature. They uses water collected from rain. The biggest advantage is the increase of longevity that you get for exposing your equipment to lesser temperatures

the company DualSun has a panel that can take in pool water to heat the pool while cooling the panels. If no pool, they can also be used to preheat water for your water heaters or go to any heat exchanger. It's a pretty cool system.

@jacobcarlson4010

9 ай бұрын

Was just about to mention them; currently planning to use some of those, and send the heat to a geothermal well that will provide heat for my house in the winter.

@1DwtEaUn

9 ай бұрын

I always wondered if you could do some sort of micro-thermopile array setup on the back of a panel to generate useful power and cool the panel.

@ErikBansberg

9 ай бұрын

As soon as I saw the title I was thinking, combination solar thermal and pv is the ideal panel.

@geirmyrvagnes8718

9 ай бұрын

I hope the pun was intended.

@nivid01

9 ай бұрын

What about all the bird and bat shit! Do they filter that out before you swim or shower in the run-off water?

I am so glad it is only 5% and we all not have to waste water to cool every single panel. Thanx for your work.

Being in a desert area I can't do the water idea but I did put a fan under one of my panels and got a better watt hour return than without the fan. Just moving air on the underside helped a lot!

@Mr_Soleo

9 ай бұрын

If you ever get more panels in the future you might consider closed loop water cooling. I believe the panels need to be purpose built for it, but there's (almost) no water loss in closed loop systems and you can use the waste heat in the water to heat other things.

@eh9618

9 ай бұрын

​@@Mr_Soleomaybe putting it in a hot water tank that can then be used for heating at night

@Tuskly

9 ай бұрын

Dang... so essentially the cooling made it so you got more wattage per hour, more than enough to also power the fan? that's awesome if so. so basically the only cost was the fan. my next question would be how long until the fan is paid off?

@crestfallensunbro6001

8 ай бұрын

a slightly hacky thing you could try is to stick old computer cpu cooling fins to the back of the pannel to move more of the heat from the pannel to the air

@eh9618

8 ай бұрын

@@crestfallensunbro6001 so have a heatsink and a fan to cool it off, would definitely work

The problem is less the water, since you can simply capture it with a rainwater harvesting system and re-use it. The question is if you gain more power than you need to have a pump running all day. Maybe it helps if you just turn the pump on for about 20 seconds every minute, but that might drastically reduce the lifespan of the pump and might leave your panels covered in mineral residue left by the evaporating water.

@MrWaalkman

9 ай бұрын

There's actually a "starts per hour" rating for larger motors, but I wouldn't expect it to apply here. But if it becomes an issue then a soft start for the motor would be the way to go. And there are other ways to cool off the panels without running water over the glass on the panel (think water cooling found on PCs), such as a closed loop system that heats your water for home use by way of a heat exchanger. Now would these modifications be worth doing? Single use water dripping across the top of the panels would be a horrible use of water, and probably (hopefully) illegal in most places. A closed loop system that circulates captured coolant (antifreeze) and the dumps the heat into something that you want heated (hot water heater, pool, heating the house, etc), as a secondary use, or if you don't need the heat, sinking the heat into the soil would be far more efficient, and potentially reduce your energy costs in other areas of your home. I don't think that I would do it for a meager 5% electrical gain. I would have so see a marked improvement in energy production as well as a cost savings in the secondary uses.

@donalain69

9 ай бұрын

@@MrWaalkman I think the same way. Was also thinking of a liquid cooling loop like the one used for PC's. It could be applied to the back of the panels using heat transfer paste (like the one used on CPU's). But 5% is just not worth the time and money. Another possible option on tilt roofs could be to capture wind from the line along the top of the roof and get it to blow under the panels. But It would only work when there is enough wind... and if there is too much wind it might get your panels airborne (if unlucky along with the roof)

@kmikl

9 ай бұрын

The water is the less efficient way to address the problem. There are companies that are bonding heatsinks on the back of the PV cells and 'stealing' power from the cells to run wash-down fans controlled by a simple thermal diode. kzread.info/dash/bejne/f6ht066LfpqwpqQ.html Tech Ingredients did a breakdown of it, and discussed using water briefly, but dismissed it mainly because a pump is a lot more power intensive to run, and the net effect is only about 5-7% where the heatsink and fan arrangement was 10-12% for a smaller power investment. I'd give that a look because the discussion is a bit more in-depth.

@TheCablebill

9 ай бұрын

Try putting a duct on the back of the panel that runs air up via convection through heat sink fins.

@donalain69

8 ай бұрын

@@TheCablebill That's what @kmikl mentioned in the last comment before yours.

I would reclaim the water at the bottom, run it down into a geothermal system, in the ground, then when the water cools, it's pumped back up to start the cycle again. Many other uses for that hot water, hot water storage tank for baths, etc.

@kingmasterlord

7 күн бұрын

throw on a windmill battery charger for the pump and youve got free energy

@lenardgor

7 күн бұрын

The energy u need for that is higher than the profit gained from cooling.

@kingmasterlord

7 күн бұрын

@@lenardgor boy go on somewhere and study

@codyaragon93

2 күн бұрын

People who act like a small pump uses significant amounts of energy probably yell at their kids for leaving LED bulbs on when nobody is home.

I went in 2015-2017 to a energy convention and there was a company who had solar panels with hoses at the backside. It had a couple of functions. It was to cool the solar panel and to heat the water for your pool, shower. Somehow I never saw it again as the idea sounded good.

Thanks for making this excellent comparison. One cooling option is to use thermal conductive glue to attach aluminum heat sinks to the back of the panel. You could even hook up a separate solar powered fan to draw air over the heat sinks.

@everydaysolar

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, that has some potential. Thanks for the idea. Increasing the shaded surface area with a little airflow would probably make a measurable difference. Sounds like I need to go shop for some aluminum 😁

@GroxMirk

9 ай бұрын

@@everydaysolar The cost over gain would be enormous.

@SkinnaMov

9 ай бұрын

I think @TechIngredients did a aluminum cooler on the back with net positive output like that.

@yazmeliayzol624

9 ай бұрын

If you are gonna go all out like that I suggest you instead utilize the thermoelectric effect and also have the panel face under vacuum with water cooling via a pump and tubing on the thermocouple... or whatever those thermoelectric panels are called...

@JLittleBass

2 ай бұрын

​@@SkinnaMovTechingredients is the bomb!!

Thanks for doing the test. I think the 5% extra energy production seems low and probably will scale up to more if done over a home sized array of 2000+ watts. I've hosed down a solar arrays in the middle of the day and noticed upwards 10% power increase on just the watt output. But, in addition to using up a lot of water, a big problem with is *hard water* stains on the panel's glass from using normal city tap water. Those minerals will get _baked in_ even harder with the intense daily UV and heating. Personal experience. As someone else mentioned, this can only be practical with a heat sink system on the back of the panel: (a) no hard water stains (b) low to zero water waste as water is circulated Requires a lot more materials like hosing, valve, heatsink, anti-bacterial additives, etc. If its going to give 10% energy gain then might as well spend 10% more on panels and spend less money and time. The ever falling prices of solar panels makes that the best alternative to get more energy output. However... I do like this idea of having a substantial behind-the-panel cooling system that would also save the heated water to a solar tank. That way, the house is getting much more energy efficiency from solar panels well beyond the ~21% efficiency of the latest generation solar panels. Look up "2-in1 DualSun SPRING hybrid panel" that has all the heatsink and hosing built into each panel. The manufacturer claims it can give that 5% to 15% panel energy output efficiency improvement as well as heat the water to 70°C. This is a double benefit that's kind of a no-brainer if it can be made and installed economically. But it really shows what our sun is capable of when the correct set of technology is applied!

@alexandruilea915

9 ай бұрын

What if you use a heat pump system to move the energy from the heater water out on a pool water (basically a water-water heat pump) so then you send not just average temperature water to the solar panel but actually cooled down water like maybe at 10 degrees Celsius or lower. I think then you can gain even more than 15% in power production but it will be balanced out by the heat pump probably.

@MR-backup

9 ай бұрын

What if you don't put water on the photo cell itself so as not to distort the light wave landing onto the cells and reducing the power "creation" capacity? And cool the panel from the rear.

@alexandruilea915

9 ай бұрын

@@MR-backup you can expect somewhere between 10 and 15% improvement. Still not worth doing unless you also need the warm water for something like a pool.

@beyondfossil

9 ай бұрын

@@alexandruilea915 Interesting idea. Can someone do the calculations please! 😁

@beyondfossil

9 ай бұрын

@@MR-backup Hmm, got me thinking that maybe the solar panel can be manufactured with many thin channels embedded within backside plastic perhaps. It will just make the backside some 2mm thicker. That allows water to run just under the solar cell substrate and provide a guide for the water without requiring the use of any heat sink. These water channels would not be as efficient as an actual heatsink but would be a hell of a lot cheaper! Because these channels would not much more manufacturing materials -- just a small change to how the panel layers are sandwiched together at the factory. Each panel will need some sort of inlet and outlet water ports. The smaller channel size will require a stronger pump but still should be net positive in terms of energy production. 🤔

to be clear, efficiency increases below STC. The flow meter was a nice addition. One additional test would be periodic water flow. Save water and allows the water to evaporate, cooling the panels. This will depend on humidity which varies by day and region. Also, if the heated water could be used for things like swimming pool heating or hot water preheating, it gets a bit more cost effective. Water also block longer wavelengths of light (so red more than blue), so cooling the back of the panels might be more effective.

You can watercool the panel by making the backside watertight and pump water through it, and use that water in your heat tank or swimming pool heating. All in all, it's not worth the effort unless you really have a lot of difference between night and day, but the year itself is not changing that much. So if you do have cold nights, the heat is good for storage in a heat tank, and at night it keeps the temperature of the panels stable plus it lowers the amount of electricity needed to heat up cold water to 65+ celsius after it went through the heat tank. Be aware that you should either have cold water or hot water, but not in between due to legions disease that thrives between 20 and 60.

@alexandruilea915

9 ай бұрын

We have a buffer of 2000 liters that has it's temperature around 40 to 50 celsius during the entire summer but it's only for heat storage as the water that we actually use just flows through some copper pipes that are inside the buffer and the water simply absorbs the heat from the buffer without exchanging the water itself. Anyway, I don't think there are any bacteria in that water since during the winter that water sometimes reaches 85 degrees celsius when the heating is turned on.

Majority of the cooling is from water exaporating off the panel so this could probably be done with much less water at intervals. A supprisingly effectave way to cool your house when the ac cant keep up is to hose off your roof a few times throughout the day.

@SeekingBeautifulDesign

9 ай бұрын

Sadly practicality trumps theory. Unless you have good quality distilled water, you'll have. Rapid scale buildup which will occlude panels rendering them useless. Your swamp cooler approach can work if done on the back side

@shawnbrennan7526

9 ай бұрын

I’d say more cooling is from conduction (panel to water) than from evaporation in this test.

there's no way the extra 5% justifies the cost/waste of the water. Thanks for the video!

@everydaysolar

9 ай бұрын

For sure

@johnathon007

8 ай бұрын

That depends on the climate. Somewhere that gets large amounts of rain could capture plenty of rain to do this and then use the water for other purposes like watering a garden. The water doesn't have to simply be wasted.

@kahingaltv2023

Ай бұрын

then use your brain, make pan that captures the water then cycle it back..

@happyhamster1411

Ай бұрын

@@kahingaltv2023 it’s not worth it. But feel free to do it with your gigantic brain

@markeh1971

Ай бұрын

@@kahingaltv2023Hi, think rain water harvesting, the panel becomes the means to capture the water. Using the tank water to cool the panel uses the rain water capture parts you already have. The big tank becomes the heat soak that gets liberated at night. Take care all M.

Sundrum Solar has modules that attach to back of conventional solar panels and then use that heat generated for hot water needs, can be swimming pool, car wash, hotels or space heating.

@thespencerowen

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing. I’ve been looking for a way to warm my pool while simultaneously adding electricity. I’ll check them out. If the water cooled panels are 10% more efficient, but cost 10% more it would be a wash. It may be cheaper to just add an extra panel or two.

@jdlutz1965

9 ай бұрын

@@thespencerowen I've never installed their product but I know they've done a number of projects and think it a very viable means to extract more energy from the sun while making PV panels more efficient due to the cooling provided by the system. If you're in an area that deals with snow it can also be used to melt snow covered panels.

This is informative. I wonder if an internal cooling solution may yield even better results. Not only because the actual cells would be cooled but your also avoid any potential loss of sunlight hitting the cells due to the reflection and refraction from the water cascading down the glass. Might he something to consider for a future aide by side test.

@alexandruilea915

9 ай бұрын

There are panels that have cooling on the back side. Google DualSun Spring.

when i was getting my degree in this field, i met a guy that installs flat fin tubing on the back of panels and the water was cooling the panels and was used to generate heat through thermo heat generators, and some went to domestic use. the important thing to remember is to use as clean a water as you can if you are going to wet the panels to prevent degrading by mineral build up and water is a universal solvent and will destroy the frame over time

Maybe you should recommend dual use panels. They harvest the heat with watercooling loops on the back of the panels. So you 1. cool your panels down to get a better efficiency (more Wh) and 2. You can harvest the warm water from the system via heat exchanger.This way you have not wasted any water and get the dual purpose use out of the sun energy

I have a small array in my yard with a 200ah lifepo4 battery. I use this for my pool equipment, outdoor lighting and power tool charging. You video made me start thinking of a way I could use my pool pump and reclaim the water to heat the pool.

i think the data is tainted due to the sprinkler tube being set up in a way that partially shaded the panel. i would say it needs to be rerun and setup in a way where each panel is equally shaded... 0% shaded. i like the experiment though, curious to know what the real results would be

I remember reading years ago (early 2000's) that solar panels were more efficient in slightly overcast days, I have no idea if it was accurate or not, but this would kind of back up the theory that the panels work better at a cooler temp. Either way pretty interesting to me, thanks for making and posting this.

@gatecrasher1970

24 күн бұрын

Basically sometimes a cloudy day will magnify the suns rays through the light moist cloud particles

I not only have this set up for my 12.4K W backyard fence mounted system but I also have low pressure misters that clean my solar panel and pull my solar panels from 130° down to 88° increasing my total power production by 1200 W which is enough to run a small air conditioning unit. I also have a smaller version of a whole home water softener for lime scale.

As a standalone fixture, the potential savings are probably offset by the water and power pumping it. However, if were done as a multifaceted system that is cleaning the panels (keeping pv efficiency ratio up), cooling the panel and also heating water for internal use, then the compounding effect could make it a more efficient and cost worthy approach. I think we'll see more cooling systems in future, as pv panels become more efficient and cost effective.

@solarcabin

9 ай бұрын

Off grid 20+ years and heat loss is an obvious factor you can mitigate. I don't recommend using water though and the way solar installers mitigate it is by adding additional panels to make up what is lost in high temperatures and on cloudy overcast days. However, for DIY solar I recommend not putting your panels on a roof that is black or dark as that will increase heat loss even more and use a ground mount system over dirt or light colored rock. You can also increase air flow to the back side of the panels by removing obstructions and if possible set them so the natural wind patterns flows across the panels. Even a light breeze makes a difference. A ground mount system with adjustable tilt and angle or a tracker is optimal. I also recommend a ground mount system so you can wash the dust and bird crap off your panels and check and do any maintenance needs. My system gets washed off a few times a week. My system is 1.4Kw ground mount with 600Ah LIFEPO4 batteries and Geneverse 200Ah and ALLPOWERS 200AH power station for extra capacity and that runs everything: water pump, lights, microwave, laptop, evap cooler, ebikes and recharges lots of tools and gadgets.

@Br0ken_Rob0ts

9 ай бұрын

Have a capture system and directly put the reclaimed water back on the solar through a radiator in the shade with a fan and a pump you'd probably have to top it off cause of condensation and evaporation creating a loss you'll need to account for but could definitely work on super hot days

I'd say some improvements are from cooling and some of the improvements are from light magnification from water droplets. Cool test tho. I'd say cooling the back side of the panel would give you a better knowledge of cooling alone without magnifying light on the front side

@AySz88

9 ай бұрын

I don't think there's any appreciable magnification here - you'd need light that'd miss the panels to hit the panels instead, and there's almost none in this setup. There should even be a detriment from additional reflections away from the panel, since the albedo of the panels seems to have gotten brighter in the video.

@fritzkabeano1969

9 ай бұрын

@@AySz88 If anything the water is probably diffusing/scattering the light waves away from the panel

Apparently the temperature coefficient changes with the age of the panel because I have some 14 yo panels with extensive spider cracks that have degraded by about 10-15% at STC, (basically when it's cool out), but when they really heat up in the summer the power output crashes. It was a simple test I did when they were very hot I took a hose and hosed down the panels. I saw over a 40% rise in amperage on my Amprobe. There could have been some SMALL variations in solar input but the sky was clear that day. It was an eye opener for me.

@zer0nix

9 ай бұрын

You'll want to use demineralized water for this, like distilled water or harvested rain water. City or well water will most likely leave mineral buildup

People have been playing around with this idea since the 1980s! It is 100% impractical, but it does work! 😂 not a single commercial application of this idea has ever been implemented successfully. There is a warehouse north of Los Angeles that is stacked with gently used solar panels and you can pick up a 300 W module for about $40.

This has been on the table for decades.... Powerlabs, Engineering with Rosie, ..... have done this. The major point is cost efficiency. No use cooling the panels if the cooling costs more than the additional power from the grid would. I have seen water and air cooled panels (backside cooled) that use the extracted heat for heating purposes, but all those systems don't work well if you can't dump the heat somewhere. Running water over the front might even redude the light input into the cell.

Nice video. I have 800w of ground mount Rich solar panels connected to an EcoFlow Pro and run the sprinkler in the heat of the day. I almost always get at least a 10% increase. It might be because I’m in Oklahoma and it’s 108 today 🤪. I checked my panels and even with water cooling they were 90+ degrees

@Kawka1122

10 күн бұрын

Please stay inside. 108 is more than boiling point of water!!

@SupremeSaucer811

10 күн бұрын

i think he means 108F, America is in Fahrenheit not Celsius.

"My current power bill" . . . I see what you did there ;-)

As a boater on a liveaboard boat, sailing from point A to point B.... floating "flexible" panels on the water not only provides all the "free" real-estate needed for a 4KW system, it cools the panels and makes them more efficient. When not in use, it is rolled up on a spool (like your garden hose) and stowed there for later use....

Yeah! I've noticed this in my van one day after it rained. Also, it's counterintuitive but my panel covers a ventilation vent in the van, and running the fan produces more power despite the fan load than not. One great use case for this is for an off grid tiny shack house with a single slope roof where nearly the entire roof is solar to block the sun. The water would keep the roof and shack cooler. In my case during those direct sun hours I'm running a 12v pump to filter rain water used for bathing, washing, cleaning and irrigation so might as well run it over the roof achieve this affect, which i think will also disinfect and heat the water.

@kbusse

9 ай бұрын

Be careful with systems that only create warm but not hot water. The risk is that you might accidentally grow Legionella bacteria in the system, which can be pretty nasty if incorporated with vapor of a warm shower.

59 degrees F is about 15 C. You forgot to subtract 32 before 5/9! Love the everyday home stuff!

Thank you for all your efforts Scott, this video represents pretty much what YT *should be* about in my mind 🙂👍 A temp diff of almost 50% for a 5% gain in yield sounds pretty sobering to be honest. Even if this would vary up to 10%, will be it worth the extra investment for the required material, electricity (water pump) and the water itself, which will become a more valuable resource in the coming decades? BTW - have you observed a significant efficiency gain during winter then?

Awesome test, with a large enough system it's worth running a chiller and recirculation of water. I got up to 16% gain. Love these tests 👍

@Geoff9001

9 ай бұрын

16% PV KwH gain? That is absolutely impressive!! Care to share the specs? I'm very curious to hear what you got going!!!

So if your a farmer irrigating your crop, you could set up your irrigator with solar panels to follow the Sun and drip water on crops as it moves across the field. Always been a fan of gardens and solar panels occupying the same land. Check out gardening with solar panels.

I did a project on this effect in my heat and mass transfer class, the math behind it is very interesting but it's only a viable option at certain temperatures, I primarily studied the effects of wind on the efficiency

It looked like the PVC was casting a thin shadow across the top of the panel. that will cause a big drop in efficiency. Ideally you would only need to use as much water as necessary to evaporate on the panel and not run off.

You could collect rain water, filter with a sand/charcoal. And use a small solar water pump to cycle the water… might do this for my solar shed 😁

I really appreciated that you started with a control verification.

omg thank you for showing both Celsius and Fahrenheit scales. much appreciated effort

@yeanswers

9 ай бұрын

I love it when videos do this cause sometimes the content seems like it caters just one global area.

Water drops may also locally concentrate sunlight to a very small area, etching the silicon of the panel.

Try a much slower drip rate. BTW it's really common in FL to have hybrid panels that channel pool water through the inside of a solar panel to both cool the panel and heat the pool.

We can place finned heatsinks behind the panels and wet these heatsinks regularly with micro sprays. In this way, semi-passive cooling can be achieved by evaporation on the increased surface of the heatsinks with fins. If we ignore the heatsink cost, I think this will be the most viable solution that provides the highest efficiency... I love your videos, keep it up. Thanks.

This video gives me the idea of using patio misters to cool my 6 100w panels. Misting systems are very cheap and use little water, interesting. Thanks for the idea!

@yeanswers

9 ай бұрын

Such an interesting way to increase your power generation

"Combined heat and power" is so often an explicit benefit (steam from power plants at large scale, cars at small scale) that I'm surprised there aren't more systems doing it! I know water and electricity don't "mix" and it would be more complexity, but I would have thought all the puzzle pieces are already here given existing products like water-cooled CPU coolers. Must be missing something still.... 🤔

That's actually less of an improvement than I expected, but now that I think of it, cooling the outside of the glass isn't going to cool the solar cells by much due to glass being a pretty good insulator. Also, one risks cracking the glass. Generally speaking it isn't worth trying to cool the panels due to the extra complication. Easier to just add additional panel(s).

Nice video and info but I think you will find 59F is closer to 15C not 33C. I can see with a roof with water capture that the loss of water could be minimised outside of evaporation and that with enough hot days, solar on hand or a separate solar pump perhaps this still makes sense. Simplified with a sprinkler or misting system perhaps both cost and installation time could also be reduced.

POSSIBLE FOLLOW UP TEST: Consider a follow up test, to determine the quantity of power required, to run a pump to pump the water from a bucket, then use a rain gutter at bottom to direct the water back into the source bucket. Then subtract the power required from the power gained to get a net gain or loss from water cooling. thx

@Just_An_Idea_For_Consideration

9 ай бұрын

Also note: using recycled water may increase the temperature of the source water over time, so may need to measure temp of water over time, and increase size of bucket to give water time to dissipate the heat before it is reused to cool the panel.

I love your videos. I’ve been researching a solar heater for my pool. It may be possible to combine the tubes from a solar header with panels to make a cooling system.

If the mini power meters are not calibrated, you may need to swap their positions to convince both read the same manner.

You do a really nice job on these videos. Thanks for all the hard work you put in making your videos. Keep up the great work.

I live in southern Mississippi and temps can be 110+ F for weeks. I wonder if cooling with atmospheric water would prolong the panel's life over time. Having a loop that feeds from the gutter on my roof could catch the water and feed it into a "U" shaped system that would make a small pump work easier. Problem is the water would eventually reach a temp not very far from air temp, maybe a 10F drop from air temp cooled just by evaporation. I could use a float value to keep the system at a needed level. One con would be the increased constant humidity might encourage mold or mildew growth. Another is the pump isn't going to last forever, and keeping debree out is an ongoing issue.

Very interesting test. It doesn’t seem though like it would be worth it long-term. The cost of running the water just doesn’t seem like it would outweigh the benefit of 5%. Now if you had a closed loop system where you had a way to naturally cool down the water (without some kind of conditioner running), and all you had to do was run a small pump, it might be worth it. Again, very cool test. Thanks for sharing it!

@silver1fangs

9 ай бұрын

I wonder about how to circulate the water to make it a closed loop. You could do a geothermal style loop and dump the heat into the ground.

Actually a negative power loss if you (should) distill your water to prevent lime buildup on your panels.

I live in Alaska and have a place with a small solar system. The panels are mounted so in the winter the snow reflects some of the sun on them. I have seen them put out 30% more than advertised when it is close to zero F and the sun it bright on a late March day.

good idea, to save on water cost, i would recommend recycling the water that you use for your panels. have a mechanism to collect and repump the water. i would use a solar powered water pump.

Great video! You can also filter the water and pump it back through a heat exchanger. While not ideal, and it is more complex, there are ways to do this without using the water once and throwing it out.

@Chris-yy7qc

9 ай бұрын

Doesnt make sense. The pump would consume more than the 20 W / hr per Panel.

@ooglek

9 ай бұрын

@@Chris-yy7qc what are you optimizing for? Energy or water consumption? A ram pump can operate with 2-3 feet of head pressure. One might be able to build a self refilling system that requires no electricity. Or a pump that runs only to refill a reservoir intermittently, and use water height to drive the flow. Complex? Way to complex. Benefits? Not enough IMHO. But potentially still a net positive effect for the effort. Add a dedicated panel for the intermittent pump and you’re good. No battery, should stop running when the sun goes down anyway.

I wonder what would happen if you just attached black radiator fins to the back of the panel? Passive systems are always the best if you can.

Combining PV with channels would be great for people with pools. Not just for the gains in solar efficiency, but for the dual use in terms of roof space.

Had a friend that did copper panel backing with water lines running through it to pull heat from the the solar panel back in 07 as a some form of Master thesis, find myself looking for that final document now. To compare Results. He used his to heat the hot water/warm the house come winter. Wish I had the money to do something like that with my house, but that would be fresh constructions I am pretty sure for my design.

I've certainly noticed this. My array produces more power on cool sunny days than on hot sunny days. My highest production days are actually during the winter! Of course it helps a lot that it only snows for a few minutes per decade in San Diego. This is why you should never mount solar panels with their backs against something solid, unless it's a good heat exchanger. They need the air flow to cool the backs. I think spraying the backs might work better than spraying the glass because they are in better thermal contact with the silicon layers.

Failed to include the cost of the water for the minimal gain. My water bill is routinely much higher than electric.

@everydaysolar

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, this type of system pulling from city water would be a definite No Go. I think the most practical system are integrated circulation systems for heating pool water. So you save money on heating the water and also cool down the panels.

@willsta21

6 күн бұрын

The cost for the electricity on the pump will instantly wipe out any gains. What a daft idea….

Thank you for the testing..really appreciate it.. I think refraction help to improve the efficiency. This is how ETFE panel works.

there is already a similar solution by using some hygroscopic foam at the backside of the panels. This foam is taking up the moisture during the cool nights and releasing it during the hot day. By this evaporation a cooling efect of the panels is obtained.

I have to wonder if there is a increase in power from the magnifying effects of the water and if having a mister would be more effective to increase power that way or creating a steady completely covering flow over the face of the panel would be more effective. Likely a full front of panel covering with water would be best as it would even out any magnification and provide the best cooling.

@user-pp9ot5ul4n

9 ай бұрын

I had similar questions and if magnification doesn't help, maybe the mister should be on the back side of the panel so as to not disturb the sun's rays?

Use rain water, or distilled or reverse-osmosis (without a mineralization filter). Mineral build up on the panel won't be happy for solar efficiency. My water has enough minerals that it will turn splashed surfaces white in a few days. (e.g. around an outdoor water feature)

@ianloy1854

9 ай бұрын

Or perhaps use micro misters onto the back side of the panel so that any deposits don't affect the solar efficiency - just reduce the cooling. It would also mean far lower water usage.

Ok, I have been thinking about this for a while so I cannot wait to watch this

Thanks for the review of the concept. IMO, I guess another upside would be removing the dust build-up. Being from the SW-US, the other issues are: 1) Wasting water (I guess if you want to get complex, you could recirc it, but the more complex, the more things to break/maintain), 2) hard-water crusting/build-up on the panels (can be hard to remove), 3) what is pumping the water and what is its energy draw of that pump compared to the increase in power production (assuming you're not just tapping city water)? 4) if you have multiple rows of panels/large system, the plumbing to ensure all panels are cooled is a bit difficult. Finally, what about a simple air circ fan? Is that enough to actually cool the panel/... Probably not.

Enhancement would be to swap the watering system to the other panel to nullify any panel performance discrepancies.

What if the water recirculates?

I've run a large water reserve through those pool-heater panels to preserve low temps during peak loads, and a single panel running a refrigerant.

Good test. You know many people have wanted to try this.

I've also seen a ton of improvement when I have cloud lensing. Usually about an extra 10% improvement.

@bobhilder1469

9 ай бұрын

Yes but it's generally infrequent and brief meaning the energy (not power) gain is minimal.

100 gallons of water for 20 watts? Also good luck with that Cybertruck, you'll need it.

@brunophoferro

18 күн бұрын

if you set a collection system under the pannel, and then cycle it again through a small radiator for cooling the water, i think it’s worth it

@brunophoferro

18 күн бұрын

if you set a collection system under the pannel, and then cycle it again through a small radiator for cooling the water, i think it’s worth it

I have an old panel that is made with a bunch of ~12cm silicon wafers affixed to a white surface. The white area is obviously not completely wasted space if it serves to cool the wafers. Keeping the wafers round also reduces silicon waste too.

I can see a line of shade from the water line to the cooled panel. That's bound to affect the measuring. If you drill the holes on the side of the pipe, you could place it further away and probably get better results.

better filter those calcium.

It would be ridiculous to do that. Buy another panel

This shortened the life of my solar panels, I think it causes the glass to become more brittle. I’ve found rear heat syncs which you then cool a much better and safer solution.

I thought everyone knew this? This is why you can make more energy on cool sunny days...

Very cool. I could see adding a rainwater collection system and a 12 volt bilge pump for a boat in the future.

@everydaysolar

4 күн бұрын

For sure 👍

Love the video! I was thinking of using radiant PEX on the back side of the panels with a closed loop evaporative cooler in the summer to cool the panels and my shop, then the same concept for winter to melt the snow, still a closed loop system but this time pulling the heat with copper heat exchange from the wood burning stove in my garage.. Im very curious of the 5% gain would be much higher without water flowing acrosse the panel surface, but cooling it from the back.

Off grid 20+ years and heat loss is an obvious factor you can mitigate. I don't recommend using water though and the way solar installers mitigate it is by adding additional panels to make up what is lost in high temperatures and on cloudy overcast days. However, for DIY solar I recommend not putting your panels on a roof that is black or dark as that will increase heat loss even more and use a ground mount system over dirt or light colored rock. You can also increase air flow to the back side of the panels by removing obstructions and if possible set them so the natural wind patterns flows across the panels. Even a light breeze makes a difference. A ground mount system with adjustable tilt and angle or a solar tracker is optimal. I also recommend a ground mount system so you can wash the dust and bird crap off your panels and check and do any maintenance needs. My system gets washed off a few times a week. My system is 1.4Kw ground mount with 600Ah LIFEPO4 batteries and Geneverse 200Ah and ALLPOWERS 200AH power station for extra capacity and that runs everything: water pump, lights, microwave, laptop, evap cooler, ebikes and recharges lots of tools and gadgets.

Thank you for this test. I can currently not use it, because it is to hard to acces my roof (2 stories) but i think this could be valid solution for everyone, that collects rainwater like i do. That would cost no water in that case and also makes installation easier, as the water only needs to be distributed but gets collected with the system that already collects rain water. As long, as the extra energy gained is more than what the pump needs, it should be usefull.

one guy did a flat rear cover then cut long opening on the bottom and put 3 120mm fans on the top. this seems to work amazingly

Such a cool experiment! Can't to wait to see what else you've got planned!

@HansKeesom

9 ай бұрын

"cool" ;-) I see what you did there ;-)

This is also why early in the morning you can have your charge controllers trip on over voltage if you string is close to the max on your charge controller.

@yeanswers

9 ай бұрын

extremely interesting love the enthusiasim on solar

There is a company called Radi-cool that developed transparent film using a concept called radiative cooling to reflect just the infrared spectrum and passively result in cooler than ambient temperature in direct sunlight. Would be interesting to see this test done using the film instead of water.

I'm going to do an experiment using pool heater panels underneath photovoltaic panels hopefully I see similar results as this experiment. If anything I'm sure I'll have hot water LOL

City water or well water would result in mineral buildup on the panels from evaporation, hard water stains, which would lower efficiency and ultimately become nearly impossible to clean off. Collected rain water or distilled water would be best. A system that carries away heat without evaporation of water would be best. Such panels are available.

I have a degree in automation and I'm studying electrical engineering and I'm trying to develop a really efficient cooling system, this is a huge waste of water. 1st- If you made a "Closed" cooling system where you cooled the solar plate from the bottom of the solar plate and used your water tank as a reservoir, it must be in a higher position than your solar panels. 2nd- Now you will need to make water come out of the bottom of the water tank towards your solar panels. The lower part would be sealed and this would be where the water would enter. 3º The water would heat up on your solar panels and rise due to the difference in density between the water at the bottom of the water tank and the hot water below (Inside your solar plate). I believe this is the most efficient system possible to do with cooling.

Agree with donalain69 that the pump required to run the water (so you're recirculating water rather than wasting it) will likely require more than the total watts gained via cooling. Also to note, the water in the test was coming out at a groundwater temp, but recirculating water, over a hot surface, is going to dramatically increase the waters temp, thereby limiting any cooling effect at all. In the end, adding a single extra panel will offset any loss by a larger margin. That's why inverters usually have a output rating that's less then the Max pv input rating, and most quality inverters will just clip any extra power at the MPPT.

need to check for water refraction increasing. you can do this by using a fan to cool one. being that the water can condense the light channels through fragmentation refraction like a prism polarization effect. congrats on the discovery.

You could always have a gutter system to recapture the water and just use a pump to keep the water circulating. You would obviously have to deal with evaporation but it would still use a lot less water

@everydaysolar

Ай бұрын

For sure, you would have to have some type of recirculation to make this practical.

How about constructing an artificial pool or small lake on the property. Fill it up with clean water and then use it to sprinkle on the panels? The run-off could be collected and fed into the pool. A closed-loop system would certainly be able to reuse most of the water. A little would evaporate, but that would help keep the panels cool. The only problem would be keeping the water clean and avoiding hard water as it will leave residue on the panels, thereby decreasing their efficiency.

Thought on this. I could see if you catch your rain water and use it to do this. If you have solar on your roof the water gets sprayed down to your rain gutters. Rain gutters than move it to the holding tank to get sent back up to the system. On the other side of this you could blow out the pump if not enough water was caught. You would be making more power to run the pump. This don't sound like a terrible idea if someone does catch rain water.

Not a surprise, and effective photovoltaïc setups would include using them for solar too, by using their coolking as a way to preheat water for the house ...

In an environment where the temperature drops below zero for part of the year this would be a disaster, like adding ice sheets to your solar array; you'd need to continuously monitor the weather in the spring, winter and fall. Only feasible to passive cooling solution, like a heat sink.

Nice experiment! I have rain barrels and a solar roof, I wonder if I could run something like this on hot days when I have full barrels. Would be interesting to measure how much water evaporates. I really wish there was some product that was solar panels+water (pre?)heating. Not surprising solar installers don't want to do plumbing but would be interesting if it worked out well. Bonus would be the circulating thermal fluid could help keep the cells clear of snow, too.

Combine your solar panels with sedum roofing. The small plants and soil will clean the air quality, hold water, cool the building in the summer, hold heath in winter and cool down the panels on top of it. It will also extent the lifetime of your roof.