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I love that you're like one of the ONLY creators who show PROGRAMMING performance.

@Dobby_zuul

4 ай бұрын

Yes, the other creators show video rendering and editing etc which I could not care less about..

@dcpowered

3 ай бұрын

Exactly! 💯 That's why I subscribed.

@touristtam

3 ай бұрын

The reason I've dismissed most of other reviews as well

@yasashisenpai294

3 ай бұрын

Very true !

@justinhawk835

Ай бұрын

True

The difference in speed between M3 and the others with multithreaded test, is because the test are very slow in comparison with the coordination time required to synchronize more threads sending messages and waiting for all the threads to finish their jobs. I had this problem few years ago and I had to find the ideal number of threads to solve a problem, because not all problems scale well with more threads, in some cases i found that the single threaded solution was faster .

Can you make a video comparing the 18GB M3 Pro MacBook Pro to the 36GB M3 Pro MacBook Pro with regards to developers' needs, including VM?

@chinesekangaroo

3 ай бұрын

Greetings, These devices should perform similarly. Best regards, Johnny

I think the reason why the base M3 was consistently faster is because it has the tightest cluster of CPU cores, M3 Pro and M3 Max have more cores which are more spread out, so perhaps that added some latency whereas the tightness of M3's CPU made it significantly faster. I assume only super-fast tasks are the ones that would benefit from this, bigger and heavier tasks that would sit on the core longer would likely perform better.

@jchi6822

8 ай бұрын

Also less cores by design means smaller amount of cores signaling overhead, and I think some of the overhead is constant extra even on binned m3 pro.

@KeySimplicity

8 ай бұрын

never thought of it like that but it makes sense, good point

@antdx316

8 ай бұрын

As long as the program doesn't require a lot of memory because if it does, it will be very bad.

@jihadrouani5525

8 ай бұрын

@@antdx316 How's that relevant? That's true for any computer, less RAM than what the task require will result in memory swap and slow downs, that wasn't the case here.

@janhofmann3499

7 ай бұрын

All M3s have 16mb L2 per P-core cluster so the standard M3 has more L2 per core than the pro/max.

This needs to be amplified Most tech influencers are video editors and they always evaluate the encoding(insert final cut pro ) side of the machine performance and very few actually speaks for ur poor programmers Thanku for doing the lord's work 😊😊

Love the setup and excitement and audio, video quality. Want to see more such amazing content!

Thank you for adding charts to the videos!

I think your theory is correct. Thread creation may incur system calls, which create overhead by context switching in the operating system. Also, for shorter runs, larger vents don't make much of a difference.

The video I needed thanks!

@AZisk

3 ай бұрын

You bet!

Maybe next time you could use Activity Monitor’s CPU History graphs (or something similar) to see how many and what type of cores are being used?

@synen

8 ай бұрын

Yep, it comes with the OS :)

interesting results. I just recently got an M1 MacBook Pro and am loving it so far, I wonder how it compares against the latest?

Great video! I'm getting ready to upgrade my intel mac and this video helps in the decsion making process.

@AZisk

7 ай бұрын

Great to hear!

Thinking of which one to get for my machine learning courses and projects. Would be nice a video with LLAs and stuff like that. Great videos ✌️

@thiagogregory1

4 ай бұрын

Wait, are you taking an AI course?

@ayyan_khan001

2 ай бұрын

Which will be better m2 16gb varaient or m3 base varaient? I wanna code and I need it for future maybe 5 or 6 years which is best

This video is perfect!

I would like to add my perspective/opinion. Maybe it has to do with the core allocation for the tasks. Not sure how macos distributes tasks to cores, but maybe some tasks are executed on the E-cores and seem to stay there during their execution.

Hi Alex, I can not find any test regarding the M2 ultra VS RTX 4090. Could you please make a comparison between M2 ultra 76 cores GPU VS RTX 4090 in terms of machine learning and specifically in training object detection YOLOv8 models? We just hearing about the number of CUDA cores in Nvidia, but how we can compare that with M2 ultra performance?

Hey Alex Thanks for the video, very informative What do you think about the space black after 2 week use, the fingerprints, scratches, weariness? Thank you in advance!

@javiermurillo2573

8 ай бұрын

Hello, I got the space black and returned for the silver one, it doesn’t look bad or anything, but the regular white dust of the rooms or environments it’s very noticeable. But I believe is more a personal preference. Happy holidays. And Alex, thank you so much for this video, I’m kinda shock about the results. Looking forward for some explanations. Happy holidays.

I still believe that the compilers (and others) are not ready for this new set of chips. BTW Alex, as always, NICE VIDEO!!!!!!!

@AZisk

8 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@somebrains5431

8 ай бұрын

We can see that rerunning the benchmarks per update and look for changes.

@MrPoliarinis

8 ай бұрын

Exactly, not ready for this chip a.k.a "not optimized". The problem is that 95% of sofware is opmized not even to this specific chip, but even for m2 etc.. so thats why no one sees difference in real life scenarios.

@KosanyiPeter

7 ай бұрын

@@AZisk I remember you did some benchmark videos where we you used followers benchmark code in the video. Are you still open to including followers benchmarks into some upcoming tests? If yes, where can i/we send it to?

should be interesting to see the compilation comparisons under virtualization with Docker. maybe do a separate run with arm64 plaftform and another using x86/amd64 platform with Rosetta . can you do that as well?

@djrixxard

8 ай бұрын

This!!

Can you compare M1 Max vs M2 Max and M3 Max if it is worth upgrading for higher end workloads like ML training etc.

As a junior pentester i find these vidoes very informative. As im looking for next laptop. My current one is 10+ years old

Are you able to disable the cores and run the tests with same number of cores?

It’s not the spinning up or threads that’s causing this. Switching threads takes extra cpu cycles, so the more threads you have the more switching will happen yielding a long response on multi threaded work loads that are short lived, for longer running tasks this will reduce time because there will be less handshaking between threads in the long run…

Good, Thank you! i’d like to see some comparison about ML projects With Python, i have M1 Pro and i don’t know if i need change!

Hypothesis for the “M3 is faster” Compiling code in parallel ofcourse comes with overhead. Probably there are diminishing returns when using more cores than the M3. If there is an option for it then try to limit the number of threads

@akin242002

8 ай бұрын

Especially with small unit tests.

On a side discussion, I thought in this Black Friday/Cyber Monday the prices of the the M2 Machines would be more aggressively discounted. I looked intensively for nice deals, but to no avail. I bought the base model 14 M3 Max as replacement for my base model 14 M1 Pro. I thought I would get a M2 Max with a very nice discount USD 500+, but no, I got the USD 250 discount on the base model with a 1 TB disk at Adorama.

Please do a real world comparison with lot of programs running in parallel - 2-3 vs code windows with active programs in their terminals, 2-3 docker instances, two browsers with minimum 15 tabs each, ms teams with lot of chats, postman, Outlook.

@somebrains5431

8 ай бұрын

We could just do it ourselves. I'm searching thru this vid to find what 10 tests he fired off so I can do a run on my machine. This upload is reading more like infotainment than info.

Please do some Ollama comparisons between macbooks, if you can compare to hosted solutions like runpod that would also be great. I know Mac pros are not the best for local inferance but I don't think they can be beat in a portable platform but I really want to see. If you have a m2 ultra that would also be amazing to see. I'm not sure if I should spring for the Mac 3 max w/full specs or get a cheaper Mac pro (m1,2,3) and wait for the future Mac m3 studio... choices, choices...

i think i missed it but how much ram on each machine?

I’d run the test with the same number of threads to see if the cores are significantly different. Not sure how you can schedule them on the P vs E cores though

@EricCanton

8 ай бұрын

`taskpolicy -c background ./some_program` will run it on E-cores. `man taskpolicy` to see the other modes besides "background".

Do you think the base model M3 pro specs 11 core cpu is good enough for video editing?

hello, i am facing a slight electric shock like sensation on the top of lid of MacBook while charging with the given power adaptor itself and tried this in multiple sockets and outlets still the same, people over internet are saying this as tingling and it is normal, but it is causing discomfort to use the machine while charging, my question is, is everyone who have 2 prongs adaptor faces this issue in countries where grounding is done with a third prong ?

The performance of an application is not solely determined by the number of threads it uses. Instead, it significantly depends on how the code utilizes resources and what tasks it is designed to perform.

Ya my best guess would be the logic the cpu/os on when to use a efficiency core vs a performance core. There might some logic on whether the core in spun up or not in that too. With the tasks that are being executed maybe either core would work so there are more times where the tasks hit the efficiency cores. That would be my best guess whether it is right or not is another question :)

It seems like the M3 Max turns off half of its P-cores when it determines they're not needed. This kind of thing might be hampering the M3 Max performance to keep a lower power budget. Especially on battery. TG Pro has a blog post about this, which I tried to link to but discovered KZread deletes those comments. Alex, did you set Energy Mode to High Power (in System Settings > Battery)? (Sorry if this ends up showing up a lot!)

@jigyansunanda

8 ай бұрын

woah. thanks. I need to look it up. I never expected max to do this to save battery although I doubt people would notice this unless it doesnt ramp up when it needed

Can you help to make a comparison on M2 vs M3 for Unity and creators? Thank you

Out of curiosity, I ran this test (PrimeRust/Solution1) on my M1Max. Slightly different algorithms are implemented there, and you can observe a whole order of magnitude difference in the results: 1 thread, bit-rotate: 4639 1 thread, bit-unrolled-hybrid: 4320 1 thread, bit-extreme-hybrid: 87003 4 threads, bit-rotate: 17586 4 threads, bit-unrolled-hybrid: 16440 4 threads, bit-extreme-hybrid: 331302 10 threads, bit-rotate: 39317 10 threads, bit-unrolled-hybrid: 36913 10 threads, bit-extreme-hybrid: 707455 From this, we can conclude that the issue definitely doesn't lie with the threads, compilers, the system, or the processor itself.

@somebrains5431

8 ай бұрын

I ran the same langs and solutions in the bar graphs. Unless we can see which specific metric he’s calling out in the bar graph I’m going to consider this upload infotainment and not something a person should base buying decisions on.

m3 air that good for price?

@Azisk why no Hint benchmarks? Precise and more scientific benchmark for the single core.

Any info about docker?

Was all those machine plugged in, maybe I missed in the video, but I wonder if the maximum cure model is trying to conserve energy.

Can you do a video on real android project build comparison using m3 versions? Like what you did with the previous versions?

m2 air vs m3 air same test please.

I have some MC polymer simulations for a university project that run for over 8 hours on my M1 MBP 8GB RAM… I can send you those and you can test these on the M3 family. Would be interesting, for me at least 😂

If you have a model with 128 GB I would love to use a case study of a machine learning workflow that uses most of that memory...

I think base model used more its potential even though it is a small task unlike other pro MacBooks. They used some of their powers, that's why it tooks them more time to complete. it is better for battery when task doesn't require all its power of m3

Guy is learning about Amdahl's Law in practice :D

I want to know how these handle Unreal Engine 5.3 for game dev.

Can you make a Unity test for M3 lineup please? I'm thinking upgrading from M1 air but everything works great except Unity.

Ill admit ive not looked at the builds, but having looked at the performance of apple silicon in a CI setting this checks out. Fewer cores (even with parallelism count at a fixed number) equals faster performance per core. Also they are horrible at handling more than one build job at a time.

Try testing while plugged in

Seems like it’s not being optimized for multi core operations and I think the lower end mbp has a higher clock rate on the p cores than the higher end.

for repetitive small tasks like the one you ran the more cores is actually detrimental that's why the base won

Hi, If I code on node to create servers, is 8gb ram enough for me?

Hello Sir, can you please compare Macbook Pro m3 pro 16 inch and lenovo legion 7i Slim i9 13900h with 4070 please sir

hey alex can you make battery test video with coding in m3 as you did in m2 series

@parthpaladiya4786

7 ай бұрын

i have search it everywhere but i cant found

If i buy m3 with 16/512 it would be great for ios/android development?

I am still happy with my M1, just can't even imagine how powerful M3 will be

@Tldrx

8 ай бұрын

$2000 more powerful

@wikijit

8 ай бұрын

@@Tldrx 😂

@RomPereira

8 ай бұрын

@@Tldrx 😅

@calumwoodward9489

8 ай бұрын

@@Tldrx😂

@synen

8 ай бұрын

good one!@@Tldrx

Hello Alex, With your assumption that the performance differences can be due to more threads, for example, you are somehow eight, but this is not the only effect in this scenario. In general, more cores also mean more work for the OS scheduler and in theory an increasing overhead in their administration and the distribution of tasks. AS uses to mitigate this effect or to keep the working speed predictable in scenarios with a low thread number core blocks that are activated depending on the thread number. These blocks speak as directly as possible to the associated memory (memory channels), if the system utilization allows it. This is very good for developers, as the performance characteristics of AS are very predictable, which enables some optimization techniques. The second effect that probably shows here is the way MacOS deals with memory (virtual memory). The more RAM a system has, the more generously the system/scheduler allocates memory to programs. With Mac OS, the RAM used is not necessarily what you see in the Activity Monitor. Often more RAM in the system is better, but in this case of tons of short calculations, a certain overhead is also in place by the allocating and later the releasing Ram. So the management of memory is also associated with a certain overhead. In this case, milliseconds then add up to seconds when we speak of tons of bursts. All in all, the differences are relatively negligible and as a programmer you get roughly the same processing speed for your apps despite the many small things that are constantly happening in the background. More RAM and more cores only make a real difference when programs can take full advantage of them. BTW: I would be very happy about a video about how virtual memory works on the Mac, along with load scenarios that show it’s strengths and limits. Exciting topic

@AZisk

5 ай бұрын

Agreed - a deeper dive into how memory management works on mac would be good. You seem to know a lot more about it than I do though, so if you want to add to the discussion, let me know. As it is, your comments are already quite educational and I hope people find them.

Thanks for the video Alex. Could u include the screen sizes in the description ie. under: "💻 MacBooks in this video"? This way everybody can see immediately what is being compared. btw: ur the only one actually providing this info in the description, so either way already glad about that!

@AZisk

8 ай бұрын

Sure thing!

hi, could you suggest me which model of macbook should I buy considering that I am a front end developer who has only been working with xcode for about 6 years? I currently work with a 2019 Intel i7 MacBook Pro and I think is the time for an upgrade, definitely 😂 I saw from your video that the basic m3 often gives surprising results but I don't know if the same concept would be valid using xcode. obviously whichever version I choose the improvement will be notable but I would still like to evaluate the best choice Thanks to anyone who answers and sorry for my english 🥲

@nayanbabariya2318

6 күн бұрын

hello @leonadrdocanali9906 Have you got your answer? I want to buy a new Macbook and confused in choosing the model M3 vs M3 Pro. I am Flutter Engineer.

Can you guys install anaconda now on your M3 machine? I failed to do so and am wondering whether it’s just for me or anaconda is still not compatible with M3 yet

Fascinating theory! You could test and prove your theory on the next benchmark. That would be interesting!

1) The M3 Max machine has a larger screen, which means it has to push more pixels, which runs the GPU and display controller, which makes the chip use more energy which means it will be hotter. So I wonder if the M3 Max is being throttled just a bit compared to the M3? 2) Finding primes from 2 to 1,000,000 is not very difficult, with well known, efficient algorithms. Surprisingly few bits have to be flipped in the actual array(s) of integers. Which means the program overhead is important for such a short run, and as you conjectured the overhead with managing multiple threads eats up any advantage from having more cores.

@haroldminuskumar

8 ай бұрын

1. Nah, there’s no way the M3 Max is throttling because of the screen. Display controller is not an intensive task at all.

It would be much better if you showed temps also.

This is amazing, I was definitely looking for someone who could do this level of nitty-gritty cpu and ram usage & Especially, Docker local container and image build eating up so much resources, while coding and running local dev setup of multiple microservices. (And adding Intellij IDE ) Now chrome/Opera/mozilla with + 25 tabs: would have been more accurate as well. Thank you, Alex.

Am doing GEN AI programming.Which Mac (M2 or M3) would be best for huge builds dealing with AI suite of development products,LLM etc.

@alex Are you running multiple threads on the same CPU core. Because if so, I believe you need to parallelize using both cores AND threads. For example for the M3 Max, you can parallelize using 16 subprocesses, and each subprocess can run like 5 threads ==> which give you 16*5 = 80. Because calculating prime numbers are a CPU bound task, and languages like Python ( and ruby) can only run one thread at a time ( because of the GIL aka global interpreter lock) so the more threads you spawn, the more contention and context switching you'll get. and the slower it will get But I think running 16 threads on a language like Java, you won't need to spawn 16 subprocesses, cause the 16 threads will use the 16 cores ( If i'm not mistaken)

@AZisk

8 ай бұрын

it’s one “thread” per core. I misspoke - I should have just said multi-core

Most people already watched the video and know the response. I am still watching it. I bet Python's the slowest at counting in primes. :D

Summary The video compares the performance of different MacBook models (M3, M3 Pro, and M3 Max) in executing quick frequent tasks related to coding, such as compiling modules and running unit tests. Surprisingly, the base model M3 performs better than the more powerful M3 Max in these tasks. Highlights 1. The video compares the performance of M3, M3 Pro, and M3 Max MacBook models in executing quick coding tasks. 2. The tests focus on compiling small modules, running unit tests, and making frequent tweaks. 3. The base model M3 performs better than the more powerful M3 Max in these tasks. 4. The video discusses the results of the tests and provides insights into the performance of each model. 5. The conclusion is that the choice of MacBook model depends on the specific needs, whether single core tasks, multi-core tasks, or a mix of both. Keywords MacBook, M3, M3 Pro, M3 Max, coding performance, incremental builds, code executions, programming languages.

Thank you Alex for your video, I think why the basic M3 seems to be faster than the other M3 Pro and Max is due to the latency in the communication that exists between the processors; Then the M3 for having less processors the distribution of execution thread load is less than in the M3 Pro and Max processors. It could be for that reason. Greetings.

I am a CS student. Should I buy M3 pro chip with 18 GB of ram or should I buy Base m3 pro with 24 gb ram? I am unsure about my field selection.

This would have been easily solved if you extended the run, right?

Could the be any thermal throttling due to be working on battery? When editing videos there is a huge difference if your are working with AC or battery, so if you have a higher amount of cores the heat could be higher causing a slow down for the performance.

May I ask for suggestion to buy this mbp.I am a programmer that mostly work on web development and I have a plan to buy it soon but I have a thought that should I have m3pro with 36gb of ram or the m3pro with 18gb of ram is enough for in long term(3-5 YEARS). Any suggestion?

@enricoflutter

5 ай бұрын

I would really like to know too

This is strange; maybe m3 max has an issue with scheduling tasks. Also the tests doesnt contain the CPU frequency, bug causes not to clock them so high, or throtteling. Those should be ruled out.

Multithreaded and multi core are not comparable, if the compiler does not implement proper multi core support there is no visible difference, also interpreted code is not multi core by default

I was a life long pc user before I upgraded from my 2016 Windows laptop to 14” M3 Max. The experience is so wonderful. Everything is buttery smooth and compared to before, building code is almost instant!

Yeah but do it with 10 tabs of stackoverflow opened, spotify with my lofi playlist on, slack, whatsapp. Also VSC and maybe another ide, beaver etc :D thats a real world test.

M3 PRO and MAX have more circuitery to manage more cores and more memory, starting with the fact that those are nX times an M3, so my guess is that light workloads on every core get delayed by those internal additional coordination and memory movement tasks. so M3 single core is faster and it is even faster on multicore when single tasks are small enough. Also in your multicore test maybe (also a guess), the compiled versions or the runtime environment simply is not using all the cores.

By the way I believe that Alex pulled one on us. This is an old video, just refreshed... He kept mentioning M1s all the way... Darn man, dirty move!!!!!

@AZisk

8 ай бұрын

😂 you got me. Then I just replaced the footage of the M1's with the M3's, and paid someone on Upwork to do VFX on me to give me more gray hair.

What the heck, can anything with 8GB Ram even run in 2024? This is insane. How on earth can it outperform 64GB, left alone the processor speeds. Im as confused as you are. I wonder if it means that the software is simply not ready for the power in these systems and if it would still be ok to still go for something like the max and wait for the software to catch up. Interesting video thanks man. BTW... can you run tests on Windows that are loaded on parralells on these systems and see how it performs on the exact same 3 systtems.

3:06 your friend short who ???

I know whats going on. you failed to conduct the Scientific method properly. You don't even have TOP or the Core Graphs open to see the core use. I'm pretty sure its related to the use of Performance and Efficiency cores, very likely they are not Multithreading properly obviously. Check the graphs thx

Are they running on battery or AC? It’s not clear in the video

@AZisk

8 ай бұрын

doesn’t matter. perf is the same

Looks the best choice is to find a m3 Macbook Air with 24G RAM on the secondhand market

Just what I am interested in, as a lowly hobbyist who’s elated if 10 lines of code compile. But no Xcode? Argh.

Can you get the M3 MacBook air as a developer?

@AZisk

4 ай бұрын

yes, just made a video on it

It’s the prime number algorithm that’s the culprit here. There are algorithm’s that are non-scalable when it comes to multithreading. This just means that calculating prime number is a faster task than switching/scheduling cores. For an analogy, think about 4 vs 16 equally smart people. The task is to count as fast as they could to 1000. So more cores means there are more people to switch/schedule around thus performing slower.

Very strange test results. For example, the description of one of the benchmark variants for Rust provides the following figures for the AMD Ryzen 3900X: 1 thread, byte-storage: 18k 1 thread, bit-storage: 12k 24 threads, byte-storage: 170k 24 threads, bit-storage: 152k Raspberry Pi 4: 4 thread, bit-storage: 8k It seems like buying an m3 max is a severe overhead, and it would be better to opt for a Raspberry Pi.

All M3s have 16mb L2 per P-core cluster so the standard M3 has more L2 per core than the pro/max.

I'm very happy with the results for Rust, C, and C#. However, I'm disappointed in Go. It was supposed to be a fast-paced execution language. It is slower than Typscript. It's probably due to the test being small. Larger scale tests have shown it performs fast. Same with Java.

@AZisk

8 ай бұрын

from what i remember in my previous testing, Go wad really fast. It’s done very poorly here perhaps due to the algo used.

I'm not surprise, I have a M2 base model macbook air (15 inches) and there's many moment where it runs so much faster than other device I have (like my desktop with i5 3.8ghz, 16go of ram and a rtx 3060 with 12 go of ram), but for some other things it is a bit slower. I have actually tested the same program wrote in python on m2 and my desktop and m2 is faster. But m3 doesn't bring enough power for me to spend an other 2000$ on it lol But those "M" Macbook are pretty good machine

base model m3 with 8 gb ram? damn... is 8gb ram enough for a laptop for a developer job these days? i am searching for a best option for my new company laptop

@AZisk

6 ай бұрын

it really depends on what you’re doing. generally i would get more than 8GB if the budget allows (especially if you want happy developers)

The machine with more cores can cause "work stealing"

Hmmm.... silicon lottery?

More Cores != More Performance. If you have CPU bound workload then -> More Core -> More Context Switch -> More Latency!!

It's always a good day when the Schwarzernagger 2.0 is brought out 👍

If you would released this video a few weeks ago, you would have helped me save about 500$ on mu purchase 😂 Regarding the performance, I think that you are right, spinning up threads might be the cause but is the second run a little bit faster?

@brandall101

8 ай бұрын

If you're in the US and purchased from Apple, you're still within the holiday return period.