Little late to the party, but in the industrial rope access side of things , when you get a damaged section of rope you'd use an alpine butterfly (where the loop includes the damaged section). This isolates the load from the damaged section, but could be an additional snag hazard when you pull your line and might not pull as free as an EDK if you cut and did that on the spot. On the other hand, it's highly unlikely the butterfly would walk or shift to the point where the damaged section would get loaded again, so you wouldn't have to mind the knot as much. No good answers from me for what to do if it happens on the side you're pulling through though... From there after you pull ropes you can see about cutting the damaged section and using what you have left. Cheers and nice work!

I saw a fix for something like that on a Rope Access video. I'm not a climber, but I remember the instructor made a knot where the damage was then took the class through the drill for repelling past a knot in your rope. Involved switching out a few things then smoothly moving on. I love ur videos! Thanx!!

dude, your videos are GREAT! you have a positive, humble, curious vibe and I wish you many more ascents!

@jonmurua

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your kind words

Incredible video, beautiful scenery!

Great channel! Keep up the work!

Nice! Well done!

Awesome! I miss Chamonix!

also...sick climbing! 10/10

wow nice, well done ;)

magnifica actividad

I really enjoy your videos ! +1 suscriber !

@jonmurua

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Quentin!

Congrats Jon! Another great send! As for your question I would have cut clean the rope and then tie them up with a EDK with plenty tale (just like when you link 2 ropes for rappel) each time you rappel and you reach the knot you remove your reverso (relying on your prussik) move it down the knot, install another prussik and then remove the first prussik . You can also just make shorter rappels till the damage spot if you find a way to set up another anchor. What did you do ?

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

This approach works, as long as the broken/knotted rope is the rope we use to pull. Otherwise the rope gets blocked, unable to pull from either side. I'll prepare another video explaining this situation 👍🏻

@fab1000

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonmurua you re right, with my approach you may have to stop the first rappel (when you realized your rope is damage) and improvised a belay station on the spot or above if you can't make one where you are (then you may have to climb back up a bit) before you cut the rope Curious to learn a better technique, thanks!

shunt the broken section with one cordelette with two prusiks. One above and one below. Ideally with a super thin aramid cordelette for strong constriction and lowered chance for getting stuck when pulling. then move around braking prusik and reverso like the other comment described. add some tape to protect the exposed core from sharp edges

Nice video! Thanks Concerning the damaged iceline, how many lenght remaining? The decision would depend on it. Next time, bring some duck tape, always useful, more importantly when seal skins are sticking to the skis!

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

Good idea about the duck tape for the skins! This actually happens often with cold temperature. We had still another 300 metres of rappels to the bottom when the rope got damaged.

Excellent stuff Jon. Point 1. Would it have been worth putting your skins on your skis before you started the route? I'm assuming they wouldn't stick due to the cold at night.... Point 2. Regards the chopped up abseil rope. Initially, if it was in the pull-rope? I might have put my descender below it, locked off on my prusik above and just thrown a butterfly to isolate the chop. Carried on to the next safe point, pulled the ropes and then with the two heads better than one protocol, figured out where it was in the rope-chain and gone through the options regards the length of rope left to rap on. The caveat is that if the knot was in the none-pull-rope ( is there a name for that, I can't remember) then that won't work and you'd have to sort something out right there and then.

@jonmurua

2 жыл бұрын

Hello Phil, Thanks for your comments. Leaving the skis with the skins on while we climb is not a good idea. The glue of the skins tends to melt with the sunlight and it damages both, the skins and the skis. I have been advised to use duck tape around the ski to hold the skins attached to the ski in these situations. Regarding the cut rope, you're completely right! I posted this video explaining the various possibilities: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZJx7sauQicTelto.html

@philwaters9751

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonmurua Thanks Jon... I'll remember that regards the skins if I ever get back out on them again... Maybe this winter in Cham, but it ain't easy at the moment for all the obvious reasons and a few other ones too... Dry tooling in North Wales it is for the moment. Good luck on your next jaunt. I'll bet the Alps is less than over-subscribed at the moment, which must be nice. Laters... ;-)

Assess how deep the damage goes, if it’s superficial and the core is still intact I would likely gingerly continue the rappel. If the damage is more significant then tie a butterfly knot capturing the damage and manage rappels so you can get over the knot. If you can’t manage the rappel, then you have to shorten the ropes (hopefully the spot is closer to one end or the other giving you more than half a rope length. Prepare for double the planned rappels and get ready to make threads or leave gear 😥. Your videos are awesome!

@erinmcgowan7980

Жыл бұрын

beware - if the outer strands are disconnected or partially disconnected it is possible that you will strip/skin your rope, and fall down, leaving the core behind. Especially on single rope rappells. I would go with a knot to be safe.

Jon great content, waiting for classics Alps more in the easy-middle difficult: Gabarrou-Mittegelli-Kuffner.. In ice multipitch routes what its your strategy, climb with one backpack for two? Climb with second glove+down jacket hanging from the harness? How you avoid cold hands and feet, most of the times when i arrive to the belay i have cold hands what its really painful... Do you change for warmer glove inmediatly after mount the belay? When you are belaying are you with down jacket? Thanks for the feedback and hope great summer season

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

Those questions are good content for another video :) For ice multi pitches, descending on rappel on the same route I tend to do as follows: Change base layer and socks after the approach. This makes a big difference for the cold. Wear a silk liner glove and change it when wet. Climb easy terrain with thick belaying gloves. And always belay with thick gloves. Carry 2 backpacks half the route, specially for the thermos. Then leave one backpack in the middle of the route. At this moment, I start carrying the down jacket and gloves hanging from the harness. I only wear the down jacket if I'm cold. It's a hassle to take it out of the backpack, and even more if it is in its bag hanging from the harness. I think I haven't used at all this season. I also suffer from cold hands. What helps is to change the base layer, use silk liner gloves and not to over grip the tools. Wrist warmer gloves are also helpful.

@gabrielmarias972

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonmurua very useful! I never change base layer and shocks after aproach, always think will feel very cold if i take off the layers even if its for short time Also i never use silk base layer gloves, always thought will loose too much dextrity, even using tech gloves for the tough pitches, any model of this? Do you use warmth hand patches? Some guys use it in the dorso of the hands...inside the glove Thermo i think its a must! One noweign climber told me that he use calf warmers like to do aerobic and this help the calf have warm blood than its easy send to the feet but never try it

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

​@@gabrielmarias972 In terms of gloves, I generally take thick lobsters (Black Diamond Soloist), ice climbing specific (Simond Cascade) and Dry Tooling softshells (OR Alibi II). I only use the Dry Tooling gloves for the crux as they are cold and they get wet. I tried the patches and they give a nice warm feeling for 8 hours, but they tend to move and they can become annoying.

About the rope - what would I have done? If the inner looked in good condition then I'd continne for the remaining 6 rappels, paying very close attention each rappel. If the damage looked serious then I'd cut both ropes so yo end up with 2 x 30m ropes - it will take twice as long to get down and you'll likely have to leave some gear behind. Completely awesome videos - feel as if I'm there (well, not quite!)

@jonmurua

3 жыл бұрын

That's exactly what we did. The core was intact, it was only the sheath which was damaged, so we kept going

I love your video. Take me there. I hope the rope problem, was just the sheath not the core strands.... i dont know how i would fix that ???? Not use it ? Perfect climb

@jonmurua

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers! I posted this video to explain what we did: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZJx7sauQicTelto.html

awesome! Which pick you use on the Nomic for this kind of alpine tours?

@jonmurua

2 жыл бұрын

I normally I take the dry picks for mixed routes like this one and purIce when I'm sure it's only ice climbing

Alpine butterfly to isolate the core-shot. Rappel with a VT prusik extended above rappel device. Reach alpine butterfly, sit on VT, tie knot to locking biner well below alpine butterfly as backup, take off rappel device and put it back on below alpine butterfly, untie backup and slide VT over alpine butterfly. Continue rappelling.

What cameras are you using, great clarity and closeups!

@jonmurua

2 жыл бұрын

It was a GoPro Session 5

How do you make those climbing gloves? :)

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

I must say that Black Diamond and Simond do a pretty good job with their gloves. I use the BD Soloist for belaying and Simond cascade for climbing

rappel on the good one and use the damaged one for retrieving them. this way you avoid the need to bypass the knot everytime

At 2:35, was that a huge rock falling way above to the left? Thing looked like it could have ruined someone's day...

@jonmurua

Жыл бұрын

I cannot see a rockfall. They happen often in summer, but in winter it's rare

Very cool! What are you using to film? It looks beautiful!

@jonmurua

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! That was recorded with a GoPro Session 5

Have to agree you made that look very sketchy with poor technique, your partner couldn't front point properly, was he using mono's?

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

There were indeed some sketchy sections with inconsistent ice. Yes, We were both carrying monos.

@andyclarke2969

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonmuruaDid you reach the summit, or just rappel after the difficulties to your skis? either way it is a great route and one to remember

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

@@andyclarke2969 we rappeled at the end of the difficulties. Making the summit requires a different planning (early start, carry extra gear) and better conditions (less wind, low avalanche danger)

you guys are bad Ass!

Nice video :)) 0 - If the joining knot at the upper station is from the side of good line - Organize new rap station at that point - prusik or abalakov .Then follow 1 to 4. IF joining knot up is on damaged side, butterfly the problem , pass it and continue rapeling. That goes and for the second person. Pull the rope, then follow 1 to 4. 1 -Butterfly loop on the damage section, 2 - rope blocked rap for first person on single strand, 3 Contra balanced rap for second person on single strand, 4 - pull damaged side /2 knots should be there/ Be carefull to secure rope cause standard pull down, pull in - not going to work! Or Just start rap single! What did you do ?

@jonmurua

3 ай бұрын

Thank you! Since it was only the sheath that was damaged, we continued rappelling. I posted another video explaining the various possibilities. Cheers!

@AIGER80AIGER

3 ай бұрын

@@jonmurua Sorry, I did not saw second video!!! The main thing is that your climb was great and you had good time ! Greetings!

What can U do - continue repeling thats all ;)

I see your partner slipping a lot, look a problem of position to me, too much vertical and high hands make you slip. I do climb but not in ice ✌️

@jonmurua

3 жыл бұрын

I think it was more related to the quality of ice/snow on the first 2 pitches. It was a layer of light snow which froze, but it hadn't transformed into ice properly yet. Mono points cut through this weak snow easily. The same can happen with the axes unless they are planted deep to reach the hard ice.

First....... sharpen your iceaxe....

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

😃 that is the result of climbing ice with pur'dry picks; too thick, too angled

@domschimicmic

4 жыл бұрын

nice job by the way... ;-)

@ZK-kt5sg

4 жыл бұрын

I would never climb without getting my axes secured with leashes :D

@jakobmelchior6701

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonmurua Jon Murua those look like dry picks and not pur'dry to me. Big difference. They have the same angle and thickness as the ice picks and climb ice just as good when sharp, especially with the 5th tooth ground down. So no excuses there. It looks like overall pretty bad technique from both of you. I would say you were in well over your head on that route especially considering the planned descent in the dark. You risked some very unnecessary falls into the belay at multiple points which you won't be able to hold well belaying with a tube of the harness even if the belay holds. Always clip a draw to the upper bold to redirect the pull. See 8:27 as an exaple for that.

@jonmurua

4 жыл бұрын

@@jakobmelchior6701 The gear we used was Petzl Nomic + Pur'Dry picks and Petzl Ergo + Dry picks. Good point about clipping a draw to the upper bolt. Thanks for the advice