What shape keys do you you like to use?

@atuttle

4 жыл бұрын

I haven't had the pleasure yet, but those asymmetric angular keys in the barn door look so cool! That's got to be my favorite. 😍

@BruceAUlrich

4 жыл бұрын

@@atuttle Thanks, Adam! For whatever reason, I like them asymmetric like that.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

That's awesome! My brain runs on symmetry so those ones hurt my brain!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

You're just more artistic than me!

@sebmstudio1697

4 жыл бұрын

Hey Gunflint Designs, I would like know what bit you used on your X- Carve. The cuts look really neat!

Nice work on the testing!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Well thank you Matthias, that means a lot coming from you! I was really wishing I had an engineer standing with me to help explain my findings a little more coherently.

Actually glad you ended up having to kerf the bottom of them. Seems like a more accurate test, since bowties are used to stabilize a crack, to actually have a crack through the board in the tests.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

I started this process thinking that straight grain pine would be so weak it's as good as cracked. But you're right, I ended up with a better test in the end.

Interesting! So it's basically the internal grain structure of the bowtie and the length of the fibers that dictate the effectiveness. At first glance I want to say that the shape has a lot to do with it, but according to this, it really doesn't. That was a great experiment!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Yep! The bottom line is anything is better than nothing. But if you really need to go for maximum strength, there are a few rules to follow.

You could've used a very simple pulley system to increase the capacity of you yesterday equipment. Solid experiment all the same.

@JukeboxJake

4 жыл бұрын

That's what I thought too

@dredbud9272

2 жыл бұрын

His scale maxed out not the come along

@formerartstudent

2 жыл бұрын

@@dredbud9272 Exactly. If he set up a pulley system, say 3-to-1, then the scale will read 1/3 of the actual force. Then multiply by 3 to get the correct value.

Thanks for doing this, I’ve often wondered how much difference they make

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Happy to help! Seems like the bottom line is just pick something you like the looks of!

I might have tossed together a quick plywood wall to crouch behind, and probably one for the assistant to stand behind

@TheLukemcdaniel

3 жыл бұрын

@Nate Higgers I like keeping my eyesight, and detest digging splinters our of my ass for weeks but your have fun however you want

Very well done. I wondered if it would really benefit the structure. Thanks

7:00 - With your setup, it definitely was good thing to do. Otherwise you probably would have ended up in emergency room.

@reginag4053

4 жыл бұрын

Next time he should prop a mattress or something in front of himself for protection.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this right and gather real scientific data. Most importantly, thanks for selflessly sharing this info with the rest of us!

This answered alotnof the questions i had about the strength vs the cosmetic appeal of these. Awesome work

I really appreciate the work you did to get these results. Good to know its the long fiber strength and not so much the shape. Thanks

Bonus round, a key made of plywood. You wouldn't have that plane of shear failure.

In future test there a just a few modifications you can make to make things safer. Use chains as they do not spring near as much as the straps. Add a loose cable like a 1/4” cable / chain/ rope to the ends of the strap and connect them. That way when the break happens the cable will prevent the two ends from flying back toward you and the other direction. I used to test life safety anchors for window washers and there are some things that help with the safety part of pull testing. Only problem is that it doesn’t look as cool when it breaks and a long strap and piece of wood go flying across the yard.

You dropped this: 👑

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Oh thanks I've been looking for that thing.

Thing is: glue might fail over time, while a mechanical lock won't.

@dredbud9272

2 жыл бұрын

Glue wont fail in your lifetime

@MOREENGINEERING

Жыл бұрын

About 15 years ago I mounted a 600x400(mm)x18 quality ply board to a brick wall with 5 large walnuts of Liquid Nails. I mounted a number of tools to that (shadow) board. and for almost 10 years it worked perfectly. It just hung on and did its bit. Then I walked into my shop one morning and stood there while I figured what was missing! As it turned out it(the board and tools) had fallen straight down(vertically) and lay on the ground(edge) and was wedged between some timber that I had stored. On the back of the Plywood board was 5 flattened does of Liquid nail, all 100% in tact. All about 3-4mm thick. On the brick was was nothing.....NOTHING. Absolutely no sign of the LIQUID NAILS. The bricks were a moulded type(smooth face) not a wire cut brick. It lasted 10 years plus or minus. No extreme heat or cold(around the time of the separation) just normal type conditions. No water or moisture(double brick wall). The tools that I hung from it a few days after the glue had dried were the same ones(more or less) that were there the day it fell. Give me a mechanical device any day. Thanks for the video, very interesting.

Love it. For a small scale proof of concept, this is awesome. I was looking to test the shear strength of some wood keys for beefing up an old chair, and your data will be super useful.

Repeatable, with control. Great job!

Putting a towel, jacket or blanket on the cables and straps between you and the boards will help keep you from getting fd up.

Really interesting, thank you for your hard work

I'm glad you spent the time doing this research, I know more now. I'm thinking of a two stage Butterfly, longer but wider at the very end....

Thanks for doing this! Your tests are very useful!

Well done on the test. Thanks for making the video.

Nice work on this test. Good to see some numbers put to them.

Very interesting and gives you and all of us a great base line to start with. Thank you for sharing and Take Care

Great video! Thanks for sharing!

Great review and learned a lot. Thank you for sharing.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful Will!

Love this video! Thanks for sharing. So happy to hear that these joints work :)

this was such a great video man! you did a great job of making it as comprehensive and meaningful a test as possible given the limited sample size. and you explanation of how it seems to have failed and what that means was great! thanks for making this, i feel a lot more informed now!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate the feedback and I am glad it was useful for you!

Excellent experiment! Thank you for biting the bullet for the rest of us 🥰👍

Great job my friend. Haven’t had to use these yet but I feel a little more knowledgeable now.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Chris! That's exactly what I was hoping to get out of this.

Great video Mark. Was filmed really well and easy to follow. Keep up the good work

Great video idea. I really enjoyed it. Thanks, Dave.

Incredible work this is super Interetesting

Brilliant research thanks for doing that i enjoyed watching this !

You just answered many questions I have always wanted to know. Thanks

A fascinating little study indeed. Thanks for doing it.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Nice work! It’s helpful for me as I begin planning to add bow ties to some of my projects.

Glad to hear these really do help. I have a large slab of cherry wood I plan to use bow ties in to keep a surface crack stable. The slab is then going to act as a mantle/shelf. I thought your results were very interesting too. Thanks for the video!

Interesting experiment! I really like the novelty tie keys, I think it adds more flair to them.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

I think so too!

Great video. Learned a lot and loved the science based testing.

Very informative results

Very interesting and thanks for your time. I believe most, if not all, are strong enough to do the job on dry wood.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

That is exactly the conclusion I came to, but wasn't entirely sure how to articulate it. The real question is what is Strong Enough? I believe they are all capable of doing the job they are designed for.

This is really amazing work friend!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Well thank you very much!

WOW that was super cool and great info. Keep up the great work

Cool experiment!

Hi, Thank you for this remarkable research. I too am wiser than before. Thanks for sharing. Keep it safe. Willy from Belgium. 😷😷😷

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

You are very welcome Willy! I am glad you found it useful.

very good. congratulations

I think it’s creepy that this popped up after I came in from my first attempts at laying out bow ties 😂😂😂. Got to know how strong they are! Hope mine end up being tight!

Very interesting! Well done.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jason!

Great job thanks

Very very cool!!

Awesome video!

Interesting thanks for sharing this

Good info! Next time you use a strap to pull anything, place a jacket, blanket, etc., over each end. if/when the strap lets go, the jacket acts like a drag chute and prevents the strap from flying.

Very, very informative. I would have bet otherwise. Thank you for the lesson. Brock

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Very cool!

Great video! It would be really interesting to see what the strongest design you can come up with would be!

very interesting. I’m a structural engineer, and you did the testing exactly as it should be done.

@johnritchie3889

3 жыл бұрын

@Nate Higgers What? I was praising the job you did. Why the snarky reply?

Thanks for going to all that trouble. Very interesting.

That was a worthwhile test in my book. I actually thought the traditional shape was not going to be the strongest but you proved to me that is was one of the best ways to go. Thanks for doing this test...

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Hey Bill, thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you got something valuable out of this!

Subbed... enjoyed the delivery and the content!

we need more Katie

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Isn't that the truth!?

Great demonstration! I like the aesthetics of the whale, turkey leg, and butterfly the best, but that has to do with them being interesting and different. I'm eager to see the dining table project.

First it's #unnecessarywalnut but now its #scientificwalnut really cool to see how much strength these add, while also reinforcing just how strong modern wood glue is. Great video!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Tyler, I'm glad you liked it!

An option would be to put the small scale on one leg of a simple pulley and multiply by 2.

Thanks so much for doing this 👍👍👍👍 Like you I am totally blown away by the performance of the straight tie! Although I have high trust in well-done glue joints the amount of strength it added - without being canted to the angle of strain - is mucho impressive. This will be super useful in future where I know I can trust those, which I think have a nice aesthetic that suits certain projects perfectly (not that I don't like classic butterflies).

Appreciate the scientific method

Really cool experiment! That was a really good idea to take a little time to setup the stop block on the bandsaw and not have to draw out all of the relief cuts. That was funny when you were talking about dodging debris when I heard you in the background say, "That one hit me in the butt!" The one that surprised me was the straight bar. That was interesting. Thanks for the shoutout too!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Bruce! Your footage really helped to sell the definition of a bow tie.

That sweatshirt when you’re assembling the pieces 😂 Nice work on the test!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Haha, did I tell you that story? My buddy still hates that shirt, but I think it's one of the best designs I've ever made!

@MadduxWoodworks

4 жыл бұрын

Gunflint Designs I’m gonna need to request a remake. Support “The Legend” in the south 😂

Great experiment! I like the combination of workshop skills and science! Just to determine if the materials used for keys plays a significant role I'd like to see just the strongest designs repeated with pine keys.

I wonder how the strength of woods other than walnut would be, such as mesquite?

to tell you a secret - scientists do the same with mouse /rabit bones or tooth samples to measure shear and bond strength of prosthetic devices and bone grafts/implants, and their sample size starts from 20 in each group... because the fibers in each tissue (including wood) vary significantly... anyway, nice pilot study, thank you kindly for the time you spent and for the work you did, little drops fill the ocean, and even small scientific-like efforts make the whole humanity smarter. Good luck in your next projects.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Man Denis, that's some great info and really nice of you to say. Thanks!

Excellent study! Like and sub for you today. Thanks for sharing!!

Just to add couple of comments from a mechanical engineer who spent a master degree analyzing fiber reinforced materials: 1. Your test method is as good as many I've seen in labs. The method and the way you prepared the parts are consistent all over the experiment, so feel freely to call it scientific. Before anyone starts saying anything about the comparison with the lab tests, just keep in mind the objective of the experiment: just to determine how strong are they, he is not trying the determine the exact force (technically it would be the stress) value compared to a specific physic law. 2. If you dig deeper into the fiber material topic, you'll end finding that "fiber oriented" and "cross-fiber" stresses required to break the parts are significantly different. Any fiber reinforced material is stronger when the force (stress) is applied along the fiber and weaker when the force is applied perpendicular to the fibers. The recommendation about cutting the bowties with the fiber at any specific angle will result in a weaker tie. 3. There is a huge difference between a "broken part" and "debonded part", most of the failure modes on wood are more related to debonding on the fibers rather than broken ones. This is relevant if you are using any glue... Check the parts in detail, if the fibers are still glued together, having a "better" glue won't change anything. 4. Do you want to find the perfect shape for the ties... Well, you can get the answer without further testing. From all the shapes you tested, only one failed having most of the fibers intact: the straight one. Then, you get the shape which had the better performance: the classic bowtie. The best solution is right in between: add a straight section to the classic bowtie. This will remove the stress concentration, exactly where the two angles meet. Want to improve even more? Add some radii. What's the best length - width proportion? Just look for the standard probe material testing, that shape is bullet-proof when it comes to stress concentration removal. I'm sorry for the long comment, but this video reminded my first month at the Master (you know, the part of setting up the test, prepare the samples, calibrating the equipment, make tons of testing, collect the data, finding out that you screw up several things, etc). It is very refreshing to see people that still have a genuine interest to fully understand what they are doing and trying to improve their craft by expanding their knowledge. (Btw... English is not first language, I apologise in advance for any spelling or grammar error up there)

A great at home scientific non-scientific experiment. Fun project! The only problem that I see with your hypothesis is that you're not taking into the combined strength of the wood, the glue, and bow tie. How fun, great explanation, and great home experiment. Km subscribing due to this video.

LOVED this!!! you have great presentation style, you're thorough and explain your methods well. And you're funny.... It would be interesting to know how your glue affected your results. I have heard that titebond 3 can cause failures with walnut....

Quick tip - you can throw a rug, blanket, or towel over the strap to keep it from sproinging back at you. It's a safety trick when winching with a cable. You're lucky you did cut the boards thinner. Imagine the energy that strap would have come flying back at you with.

When you cut the kerf I was thinking to myself the numbers would come out roughly the same as now you are just testing how much does it take to pull a walnet block a part. Then I see the results and I see I was wrong as most of the bow ties didn't break and it was the pine that broke. Thanks for the demonstration.

great video Mark, really interesting. thnaks for sharing your info. i do like whale design but you cant beat the classic two triangles meeting at the point design.

Interesting and a good set of tests. I think the tensile strength of pine vs. walnut (bow ties) has a greater influence than you think. Shape of bow tie is another factor as well as percentage of bow tie material on each side of test slab. There are a gazillion factors of influence, so for a simple test of sizes and shapes, these are decent results. They show the benefit of using bow ties and the additional strength of it PLUS glue add to the structure.

Not a woodworker. I think I always had the idea that the key went through the entire thickness of the piece it was holding together. Learn something new every day. I'd be curious to know if a quarter thickness vs. half thickness vs. full thickness makes a difference.

Loved it. Great experiment. Can you replicate with down force on a length of wood, to test the bow tie key.

That was a great test. Yes, not totally scientific but, the results are still eye opening. Not sure I would have done 20 of each piece and spent a couple of days testing them either especially after a heavy piece of steel hit me in the ankle. 😁 Thanks for sharing!

I love your experiment. Here’s a little feedback. 1- I wish you’d just organize them according to their strength. Hard to follow all mixed up. 2-Your terms were off a little bit. What you’re measuring is force not weight. 3-failure (breaking) occurred most probably in shear or possibly in bending (depending on how the parts were tested). Great to watch. Interesting to validate the old masters who chose the old bow tie shape.

@brianmickelson4642

4 жыл бұрын

His terms were fine. Weight is the SAE measurement of force. Most of the time, we use weight as a measure of gravitational force. A lot of folks mistakenly equate weight and mass. Mass is the physical amount of stuff in an object. It doesn't change based on gravitational force, but the object's weight would.

I was just watching someone using bow ties earlier and I was wondering if they actually add anything to it. The timing of your video showing up was awesome. The next question I have is could you squeeze a split back together, add bow ties, and would it hold?

Nice work! Very informative. Can you please tell me what bit you used for surfacing slabs? Thanks

As you said not very scientific but still very usable information, this stuff is cool no matter what anyone says, would like to see more very fascinating, keep up the good work :D

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I'm glad that seems to be the consensus - possibly incomplete information, but useful information none-the-less.

You should try this with walnut burl. I wonder how the fiber of burl would stand up in the test.

I think the strongest bow tie key would be two pieces with grain structures crossing each other in a slight angle, then laminated as one. A two player ply if you will.

If you ever go about repeating this type of experiment, I think that if you put some blankets over the straps, it would stop the whiplash earlier, and be a little more protection. similar to what people do when winching 4x4's that are stuck.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

That's a good idea. My wife has plenty of blankets around the house, I'm sure she wouldn't miss one!

Great video! Both fun and informative. Oh, and for future scientific videos, a crazy wig and lab coat would complete the experience :D Thanks for sharing.

Hey man i luv this pull test now could u do a weight on test

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

I think this topic is wide open for someone else to explore much more deeply, but for my purposes I think I learned everything I wanted to know.

Mark, Great project and interesting data my friend! It blows me away about how much strength a simple bow-tie key can add to a project. You just proved it. Thanks for sharing your project with us, Keep on being safe. Felix 1 other thought or question really: Do you think the strength would double if 2 bow-tie keys side by side were used, or would it be exponential in its strength. Maybe you could do another test or in all of your free time. LOL Thanks again.

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Felix! I really think there is a lot more room for experimentation here, but I think I have all the answers I really need out of it. I'll leave the door open to someone else to keep testing.

Thank you for the video. So, what were the results? What patterns broke at what tension?

create, design and test the one that u think is the strongest.

Could you try a bowtie with a semicircular shape on the "long" edges. That may reduce the material stresses at the weakest pointin the bowtie.

I wondered why you made the keys so thin (compared to the work piece) if you wanted them to hold. I go deep, strength is the only real point. If you want stronger keys, use woods with a higher compressive strength- why I like to use rosewood and purpleheart (walnut is ok, not as good as hard maple). Thanks for the video.

Very informative, however I wonder about the shear value of a key shaped like an armadillo?

So essentially, we now know that George Nakashima REALLY knew what we was doing? Nice work!

@GunflintDesigns

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly! I think that is about the strongest design, but I think everything that has a little bit of that mechanical advantage is strong enough to do the job.