How to say something without actually saying anything!

The efficiency of turning electricity into fuels is about 70% (at best). The efficiency of turning fuel into electricity is about 40% (or less). Storing Hydrogen is a terrible pain, it needs to be either compressed, or liquified. Both storage methods need very expensive and dangerous containment. To transport it you either need to liquify it or pipe it as gas, which is very expensive for either the cryogenic shipping or for compressed gas pipelines. That has an efficiency around 60% (nearly half the energy is used to liquify or compress it and then transport it). When you burn it you need a new type of power plant. Because power plants don't like to be started and shut down, they like to run continuously, most of the power will end up being discarded anyway, for an average plant efficiency far less that 40% at the burn point. Probably closer to 25% 70% efficiency for making it, 60% efficiency for liquefaction/transport and 25% efficiency for running a power plant gives a system efficiency in the order of 10% In comparison you can put in HVDC powerlines. You can take electricity from one side of the planet to the other for about 50% efficiency, or about 5 times greater efficiency than electricity>fuel>storage>transport>storage>burn>electricity. Shorter runs give even higher efficiencies. Power lines are also much cheaper than cryogenic shipping or high pressure gas pipelines, as little as a million USD/km compared with 3-6 million USD/km. You don't need any new infrastructure, it plugs straight into existing grids and makes them more stable. Very little storage is needed. It's always sunny somewhere.

@MsSomeonenew

8 жыл бұрын

+gasdive Around 85% is the predicted theoretical limit to electrolysis and about the same for fuel cells, it is just something that needs development if we go there. On the other hand there are plenty of other "cooking pot" ideas that can cook up combustible gases out of atmospheric gases, again something that requires development or at least larger production. Obviously this is mainly to supplement oil, people will inevitably still want to heat things with gas / run gas powered engines. HVDC is certainly a good idea for all situations because the power line losses are up to %30 in certain areas already and only get worse with higher demand. But the other solution is using solar heat plants which can store their heated liquids over longer periods, which literally only requires a ditch and a tarp to put liquid into.

@dabigisland1

7 жыл бұрын

gasdive excellent information thank you. I have watched many dozens of videos seeking these conversion factors and never found them until now. lithium batteries and distributed solar seems to be the best situation at this time after seeing the great losses associated with the use of hydrogen.

@MrDippydappy

6 жыл бұрын

false

@riggald9864

6 жыл бұрын

But if you're running non-despatchable renewables anyway... and there's no demand, you might as well charge up your hydrogen tanks with electrolysed water, to feed to fuel cells later.

@bugs181

6 жыл бұрын

MrDippydaddy Which part of his comment is false or why do you disagree with it? A one word comment isn't really all that helpful.

Concentrated Solar Thermal Energy uses 100% of the solar spectrum. And, the molten salt can be stored in large tanks for 24 hour a day power generation using existing steam turbine technology.

@davemwangi05

5 жыл бұрын

lies

@lysol7204

5 жыл бұрын

Go on try it!! HA HA HA

@dobysaurus

4 жыл бұрын

Where do you get your books from? Get outta that house. Roam the world.

@whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

4 жыл бұрын

Molten salt solar thermal requires large amounts of natural gas to keep it molten. CSP is one of the least efficient forms of electricity generation.

''You can store energy in the form of methane where the sun does not shine''. You missed a nice TEDx joke there.

@engrtun

2 жыл бұрын

that’s more like a reddit joke.

What about mechanical storage of energy like pushing water uphill to be released as needed and converted into ac with turbines. Or large springs and gears like a giant watch

@AntonySimkin

4 жыл бұрын

Not a bad idea, but the efficiency would be low... it would take tremendous losses of energy

@shadowdance4666

4 жыл бұрын

Antony Simkin I’m not an engineer per se but, the laws of physics state that you will always have losses of energy through entropy. However, watches were always very efficient Dr. Manhattan. You will get out what you put in

@AntonySimkin

4 жыл бұрын

@@shadowdance4666 the deal is to find something without that much losses, aren't you agree?

I learned nothing from that presentation.

@AndreasDelleske

3 жыл бұрын

Walt Hodgson well that’s what you learned then.

*Thorium Molten Salt Reactors* and Nuclear fusion need help from innovator like Will Chueh. Solar Energy has limitations: *Dilute : need large area* * *Seasonal variations - Need fossil power backup* * *Intermittent on hourly basis - need battery/pumped hydro backup* * *Location specific*

I don't understand the "strangest places" in the title. What's strange about that? I came here for interesting new storage approaches but to be fair the video is three years old.

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

He means using the electrical energy to make combustible fuel, rather than pumped hydro or batteries to store the excess energy.

@watchmanman7268

3 жыл бұрын

But he isn't and nor are we so why did he waste my time with an infantile lecture

dear ted talks: I have been looking for a educational video talking about how vibrations can produce electricity within certain metals. i was hoping by posting this that the idea could be

@ramseees

2 жыл бұрын

look in the pyramides of Jizah

using more panels than you need during the day to power pumps to pump water up higher then when needed release the water thru turbine generators to produce electricity at night or when needed.

“If you think about it, everything is solar energy if you go back far enough” really wasn’t the approach I was expecting....

Wow Will !! Amazing job, Spread so well. This is truly an innovative idea and will be apart of the future for renewables. Iron Oxide!! You clever buggers :) glad I'm apart of this shift, love and light!

Hmmm...storing the energy from the sun in a chemical fuel rather than a battery. Cool idea.

combining photovoltaic with thermal peltier electric still requires a heat sink. There needs to be a temperature differential, to use heat to make power.

why not just hook solar panels up to air compressor and run motors on the compressed air?

@haroldwestrich3312

5 жыл бұрын

Many people are working on this solution and have been for decades. The biggest problem was the pressure differential between full and empty tanks - they addressed this issue in coastal regions by anchoring huge air bags on the bottom of the ocean. this allows usage of ALL of the air in the bag right down to the last cubic foot and all at nearly the exact same pressure.

This TED talk is not so new news. I played with nickel, platinum, and other catalyst to separate O from H2O at Reed College in 1984. Lately have been experimenting with Fresnel Lenses applied to solar cells to not only generate electricity, but deionize water, and, separate H2 and O for later combustion. It’s down to funding and engineering to take it to an industrial scale. Just a side note: What if people start thinking of ethane, water, and CO2 as renewable? What Dr Chueh suggests is nothing less than a paradigm shift in they way we look at carbon fuels and CO2. Can’t wait until the all those “Anti-Science” accusers get up to speed with the frickin’ science. The future is bright, literally!!!

Suitable for an elementary school presentation up to the 5th grade.

Watch out for the ultra violent light.

@larph7270

4 жыл бұрын

Heard that too. I even listened a few times but he's definitely saying Ultraviolent :D

I guess it's not possible to use the surplus solar energy at the day side on the night side and than vice versa ?? The grid would need to be very well strong , well connected anywhere and very fast for that.

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

Not without grid scale electrical energy storage. You are right, if the grid could be interconnected, odds are, the sun will be shining somewhere, and the wind will be blowing somewhere. That would greatly reduce, but not totally eliminate the need for energy storage of some kind. The more distributed the intermittent sources, the larger the customer base, the more stable the grid gets. Turbines scattered all over is actually more effective, than a wind farm, where large numbers of machines are running all at once, or not at all at the same time. Wind farms NEED energy storage. Tesla proved that in southern Australia.

and PV also storage even wind are improving year by year ... 4 years later 2018

high pitch sound of his voice is giving me a little x.

This talk needed details on the projects his lab is working on or has completed.

Ok that's nice but can I make or buy one of these solar thermal cells?

HIgh temperature electrolysis is now being investigated. 85% efficiency for turning electricity into methane is realistic. That is our future energy storage for heating and plane traffic.

On the Avasva you can count on professional help with problems and technical support.

I don't think we should simply burn the fuel. The efficiency might be too low.

In a rural home with a lawn why not take the heat from a water heater solar panel transfer it to a modified septic tank/anaerobic digester ad grass clippings and food wast . you get stored energy in methane and manure. If you know why please explain

@RyanMartinsrjmartins

7 жыл бұрын

You can! In Carlsbad , Ca .. At the waste water treatment plant. Water is treated with beneficial microbes through many stages .. Then the sludge is Dried.. Like I'm a giant dryer!! Ha. The dried stuff comes out / in pellets used as fertilizer.. And the gases produced by the microbes pump energy back in the system !! I recommend looking it up :D amazing stuff . Much love and light for you putting the pieces together.. I guess to answer. The machine needs to be made up by a clever mind like yours :) much love and light!

@bobo888bobo

5 жыл бұрын

why do you need to add heat to an anaerobic digester? I have read about digesters and never seen that mentioned as a need. Rotting grass clippings get hot on their own (in air)

@CALOCALKY

5 жыл бұрын

@@bobo888bobo Your righ about grass heating up in heeps. In a digester their is a percentage of water that prevents this a digester has to be at about body temp for it to work

so how far along are they?

@josealmeida5768

4 жыл бұрын

koch brothers did buy the project this year. they said that it will be done by the year of 3500.

This process is like photosynthesis but the fuel is not glucose.

I thought I was missing something until I saw the comments... presentation wasn’t very clear

So you're just wasting people's time with a bunch of empry presentations, but not explaining how you would go about doining it.

A well deserved thumb down for not understanding basic physics and misleading the public.

@davemwangi05

5 жыл бұрын

whats wrong wt you?

I was thinking otherwise - store the light as compressed light and release it when needed but how? well, we can compress air, why not light!

@drmosfet

4 жыл бұрын

We have superconductors, super capacitor, if we only had super reflector? One problem with such a device, is if the reflector failed while full of photons, you would have invented "Star Trek-photon torpedo", and make a permanent shadow on the wall.

Man that picture of USA no way can be from ISS. Unless ISS wen´t off orbit about thousands miles away.

We shouldn't be burning carbon or greenhouse gases at all. What we need is power generation that removes carbon from the atmosphere and stores it in the soil.

@weRbananas

8 жыл бұрын

Plants?

@luddity

8 жыл бұрын

exactly

@squirrelspown

8 жыл бұрын

+Julia Lerner More correctly plants use their energy to grow, then if their chemical energy is not harnessed by another life form (like fungus to who do produce co2) all they have done is effectively used the energy of the sun to remove carbon. Whoo hoo this is great. But back in human land. It requires energy to take carbon out of the atmosphere. Thermodynamicly we cannot gain energy from this. You hide the cake or you eat it, but you still need to expend the energy to make it.

@davedrewett2196

7 жыл бұрын

Qilnexio what if you pyrolisise that plant carbon? You then have a stable form of carbon as a residue (char) and flammable gases than can drive a turbine.

@BW022

7 жыл бұрын

If you burn hydrogen... you get water. 2x H2 + O2 = 2x H2O. There is no carbon involved in the process. In addition, any bio-fuel is by definition carbon neutral. In order to grow plants, plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere and give off O2. When you burn the plant, you get CO2.

I have solar panels and batteries, I live in Canada, I want to now run hot water coils behind my solar electric panels since it will make the electric panels more efficient and then I will have hot water (through some kind of antifreeze heat exchanger) and since I have hot water, then once my batteries are charged, I can also more easily electrolize it into hydrogen and oxygen gas and store that during summer for winter heating! Storing energy in the strangest places!

Lendon???

Those shadows under little suns in the infographics were funny.

great content thanks

Check out SaltX for storage of energy. This will be the future.

so they are microwaving the iron oxide solution to kick off the reaction. pretty simple. a little goes a long way...

Wonder how much this will cost to commercialise?

@jasoncook2294

9 жыл бұрын

from what it sounds like to me they are removing parts they dont need and increasing efficiency it will probably way less then conventional means. I wish they would put up the numbers though.

If it weren't for the war machine, we would already have developed liquid flouride thorium reactors and storage would be the only energy game left to solve. Five years of development at Oak Ridge Labs in 1960's already proved the technology - just couldn't get any weapons grade material from it so it was mothballed. Modern tech makes it much cheaper to build today and its "walk-away safe"

@josephfernandes3888

5 жыл бұрын

We are late but not too late, I hope. An accelerated effort is essential. Reasons pollution security health. We must explain to the young ones. Joseph France

TEDx leads energy world.

To store solar energy for homes and office buildings and factories, the only efficient way is to pump water uphill, from one lake to another. Then after dusk, you open the valves and let the water run downhill through turbine blades to generate electricity. This technique is used every day in real life.Tanks of compressed air have some practical potential too.Molten salts are much less efficient. Batteries and fuel cells are a complete non-starters at large scales.After there is no more fossil fuel, airplanes will need synthetic liquid fuels created by using electricity, regardless of the inefficiency of conversion.

as long as wheels are turning, there is no reason a person can't throw a battery bank in the trunk and have them charging when the brakes are applied. throw away disc brakes. the battery is the new brake. come home, slide in your bank and voila. new thinking is all we need. And yes, Thorium!

@luddity

6 жыл бұрын

regenerative braking can help keep your car battery charged

@haroldwestrich3312

5 жыл бұрын

True and False ! - it's true in mechanical terms, but HELLACIOUSLY Expensive to put four electric motor hubs on your car, not to mention the technical challenge to the average person and/or the cost of having someone else do it for you is just astronomical..... of course if the Car companies did it it would be the greatest but you know as well as I do that they make tons of money on brake systems, pads, cleaning, rotors, ...etc. They plan the failure of every system in our lives.

@vincentrobinette1507

5 жыл бұрын

you're describing regenerative braking, which is a feature of virtually all hybrids, and electric vehicles. It's used to put energy back into a battery, then reused to re accelerate the car. That makes the car much more efficient in town.

Future is belong to Renewable energy particular Solar energy

Similar to what the chlorophyll molecule does

It is inaccurate to say that solar is the only way to get the energy we need. We have nuclear resources for tens of thousands of years, at least.

But what we really want is to take away the power from the big businesses and not transfer energy in pipelines.

The sun does shine all the time. They don't turn it of at night.

Am I the only one to think that he makes confusion between eV (energy) and V (surely not energy) ?

The big problem with solar is chemtrails a sack cloth over the sky

TedX TURN DOWN YOUR INTRO !!!

Is that Eifel Tower in Tokyo? what the heck.. 😱

@ASH7388

7 жыл бұрын

its in red.... = = its the tokyo tower...

Is there any way to use heated water to generate energy?

@lylestavast7652

5 жыл бұрын

get it hot enough to spin a turbine and produce electricity... or displace electricity consumed for low-grade thermal process requirements... net-net, you do well if the manner in which the heated water is generated to begin with (solar, byproduct of some other process...)

@larryjeffryes6168

5 жыл бұрын

Lyle Stavast It would be hybrid or dual use. And not to steam phase but perhaps in the neighborhood if boiling. So high thermal delta but what to use it for? Preheated water for quick cooking water. But that use would likely be over supplied quickly.

@lylestavast7652

5 жыл бұрын

There's a huge amount of low grade thermal requirements out there - any of them could be useful... One that's been entertained is heating sewage effluent to increase evaporation rates... are you asking because you have a process that's going to generate a lot, or are you asking for some other reason ? Space heating is the simplest use of bulks of heat - drying crops can be done with it (and that's important for things like corn to ethanol in one type of conversion)... You might find a way to use the heat to expand something like a freon loop, which then "boils" and drives a generator too...

@larryjeffryes6168

5 жыл бұрын

Lyle Stavast year round collateral heat capture, not generation. But once removed/separated, seems a shame to waste it.

@lylestavast7652

5 жыл бұрын

The lower the temp, the harder to use directly to generate some electricity from it. Space heating, sure. A heat sink for heat pumps to draw from can be extremely efficient these days. I know a reverse application for ICE - freeze water in an insulated storage area under a parking garage in the cool season (Dallas) and feed chillers from it in the summer. I think it's JC Penny's HQ I saw it at in north Plano near the tollway... the reverse could happen for heating as well...

How about using solar cells to power photonic circuits and all that stuff? Why waste it on electricity? I bet it'd be very efficient then.

bad presetation... I didnt understand whats the project about. He just looks like a salesman... The quality of ted talks if going down the drain.

@sonjak8265

5 жыл бұрын

Great talk! Use mirrors: 1) to increase efficiency of solar cells and 2) to get heat, which can then be used to store the solar energy in water.

@muriloime

5 жыл бұрын

This is not a TED talk, it is a TEDx

@herenowlife

5 жыл бұрын

@@sonjak8265 as a fuel im thinking by combining it with co2

@HollisTedford

5 жыл бұрын

@@sonjak8265 They already have this technology and it is being implemented... but it uses salt, not water because the energy (heat) that can be stored in salt is far greater than water. I believe salt can hold something like 1000ºF as opposed to 212ºF

@ericdew2021

3 жыл бұрын

@@HollisTedford That is a different implementation. For molten salt, it's just using concentrated solar heating, nothing to do with photovoltaic cells. This talk describes using photovoltaic plus the heating of the water coolant to disassociate 2H2O into 2H2 and O2. The electricity from the photovoltaic will split the water molecule into its constituent parts. The electricity isn't (immediately) used for electrical grid use, but to break the water molecule. Then, the separated H2 will be stored and can be transported to wherever. Ideally, you'll have canisters galore of compressed H2 and you'll bring them to where they're needed (by truck or rail, I presume), and you're constantly making more containers of H2. The molten salt idea is to heat the salt until it's melted, then run a secondary loop of water around that. Do a heat exchange from primary molten salt loop with secondary water loop, heat the water into steam and send that through a turbine for your fairly traditionally steam generator. The molten salt can stay hot and useful as the primary heat source for the secondary loop far after the sun has set. So while it might not go 24/7 (maybe one day it could), it can perhaps do 18 hours or more. And the remaining 6 or so hours can be during the extreme low use times (1-7am) and whatever energy needed then could be covered by wind and/or hydro.

I hate to have to state the obvious but the Sun actually does shine all the time...

So you're saying we should convert solar energy into ethanol, combust it to produce mechanical energy and then convert that to electric energy by waving magnets around so that we can charge our phones. The real question is how to make a smart phone out of plants.

Impressive! Though it is only a theory.

thorium is another energy source that can last forever

@SimpleTek

8 жыл бұрын

+Gary Lewis and isn't reliant on or from the sun

Tokyo has an Eiffel tower?

@ENI232

4 жыл бұрын

That's Tokyo Tower my friend

Graphene

We waste time and energy chasing silly dreams when the solutions are already in our hands. Hydro efficiencies are a dismal 15%. Redesign what we do and we can change that by 5 times. Without dams.

@RandyTWester

4 жыл бұрын

Even better, move warm, humid air from the surface up to 30,000 or 40,000 feet, then capture the kinetic energy from the moisture when it condenses and falls, use the water for growing food, and use the cooling effect for improving human comfort and fighting climate change.

Talk to Stanley Meyer... Oh too late, the FBI took him out

i learned that the problem is that we are inside of the best eficient battery ever. and we have to be out side of this operation we should focus the tecnology todo all this inside the car and we have the best ever baterry. and he wont tell us his tech. he is telling a people that is in his lvl. witch can do it reality because we really are out of time.

hey, symbol for hydrogen is H, not H2

@michaelnakedpctech1100

7 жыл бұрын

Hydrogen naturally occurs as H2, Oxygen naturally occurs as O2, Sulfur naturally occurs as S8, etc. etc.

@trueriver1950

6 жыл бұрын

H is monatomic Hydrogen. Instantly combines to H2 at any Earthly pressures. H only exists between stars and even then most of it is H2.

Atlantis & Lemuria

Pyramids :) QC

Play at 1.25. Thank me later

@RandyTWester

4 жыл бұрын

1.75 if you want to hear Elon Musk.

It seems so obvious to me to use Peltier TEG between the back of the Solar panels and heat sinks to increment the productivity of solar energy farming and then simply store that energy in weights. You can pump water uphill during the day and keep a hydroelectric facility to produce electricity 24/7. You can also lift something heavy and use ratio gears to spin a generator at night. Seems much more efficient than trying to make fuel.

In 1973 the US went bankrupt. To solve the problem the US made an agreement with Saudi Arabia to accept only US Dollars for oil (petrodollar system). This created a demand for US dollar around the world that backs the US economy. The US don't control the oil production, they control the sales of oil all over the world. That is the reason that alternative energy is not convenient to the US economy. More fossil fuel is more back to the US dollar. This system allows the US to print money without any ballast ( FIAT Dollars). The problem is not technical is economical.

@HollisTedford

5 жыл бұрын

That sounds about right

Ethanol, more fuel to produce than btu's of energy. Same with hydrogen, ours is derived from natural gas, methane, maybe but all this is childlike wishful thinking

You need to make some changes. Check Avasva Solutions if you want to make it right.

what

if you were an insurance company, would YOU insure H2 cars ? me neither

@NCOGNTO

7 жыл бұрын

Thomas what if the H2 just had a slow leak til the garage filled up (top to bottom) to the hot water heater over a 3 day weekend ?H202@90% has three times the energy of gasoline, 80% of the energy of cryogenic H2 , AND is non flammable . It can can also put 5lbs/gal of O2 back into our air - H2 cant do that Hope you watched KZread/cecil mills/WAR WE WANT and GLOBAL WARming

@NCOGNTO

7 жыл бұрын

+Thomas Milburn Thomas H202 is the liquid fuel that powered the Worlds Fastest cars (yes,can also be a bleach) maybe thats why it is the "cleanest" fuel we have - I will tell you if the US Govt wont please push this button for WAR WE WANT Total govt clampdown on this fuel

@SupernalOne

7 жыл бұрын

H2O2 was used in the Nazi rocket fighter that shot down B-17s in WW2 - so at high concentration it has a lot of fuel potential, albeit it's unstable and corrosive

@NCOGNTO

7 жыл бұрын

***** Yes thats it ! Simple engjneering problems you should add to that list : non flammable , totally recyclable , cheap , positive emission (02) and high energy . Safety is a big plus - pollution from fossils killing millions now .Did you push the button ?

@NCOGNTO

7 жыл бұрын

***** but youre about 70 years behind

U know whats better? Permaculture.

@SimpleTek

8 жыл бұрын

+weRbananas been smoking too much of the wacky tobacco eh

@weRbananas

8 жыл бұрын

nah. it's just that people keep making these new innovations, that support our lifestyle, and will not truly solve the problem at hand.

work goes much faster with Avasva plans.

update my join investments black and whites documents, investments,holder buyer corporate gold back up capitals

A colossal waste of time. Nothing new, nothing unique, nothing interesting.

If this presentation was at an elementary school by an elementary school student I would think this is cute but unimpressive .

Tidal energy and geothermal are not from the sun

oil gas and coal are not fossil fuels, they are abiogenic, it can never run out.

Very interesting

proper bollocks

Um. ALGAE?

he is selling Iphones

worst statement : youcan`t kep the energy in LiIon batteries !!!! wrong ! you can keep charged batteries for years !

This talk has no real content. It's more or less just babbling.

9 minutes and 50 seconds of pointlessness

problem is this, problem is that, noisy Sheep

What a load of waffle.

This guy is a not very smart at all

This is where trevor milton stole his presentation ideas for the hydrogen fuel.

I respect his knowledge but Tedx should push harder on having speakers with a neutral accent do the presentations. I could barely understand most of what Prof. Chueh was saying.

Stopped watching when he said "the second problem of the sun is that it doesn't shine where we need it to shine"... well it shines happily in the tropics, EXACTLY WHERE IT NEEDS TO SHINE! so please go back to school and learn again boy!