Thanks for this. Needs more sharing as I've seen this called a LOT in FL & have avoided by settling for bump sets. Glad to hand set & improve that further while still enjoying games more now without the awkward if a bit of spin.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

The way beach volleyball sets USED to be called, many pros used to bump set and nearly all the women bump set. Now, with the new way the refs are calling double contacts based solely on what happens while the ball is in contact with the fingers (RATHER than spin after contact) nearly all professional men hand set and more than half the women are hand setting now. Nearly all the younger women are learning to hand set, as a result. I'm excited about this change, as it is shoring up one of the worst, in my opinion, differences between enforcement of rules for outdoor vs. indoor volleyball. The FIVB rules for outdoor and indoor are written the same for double contacts and lifts, but the enforcement of those rules has been traditionally so different... glad to see this changing to more uniform enforcement of rules that are written identically.

@tonybowen455

3 жыл бұрын

@@BeachVolleyball_SoCal ^ this. So many of the rules have changed a bit over the years. I don't think as many people keep up on vball as basketball or football here so they have no idea. Watching a bit every few weeks or so helps.

My thoughts exactly, Played at a YMCA, kept calling every set that spins was getting annoyed especially when the pass is bad. Game wasn't fun anymore

@SamWilcke

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and the people who have the incorrect idea in their head that spin is automatically an indicator of a double contact (it is NOT) are nigh impossible to educate. The earth is flat in their minds... end of discussion!

Thank you for not only explaining the rules but providing FIVB clips with proof

The whole reason for the extraordinary tightness on beach setting - even no spin sets with a quick action were called - was, imo, to stop indoor players making an easy transition to the beach. I played in the 80s/90s and at that time indoor sets would have been illegal on the beach and beach sets would have been called carries indoor.

Not sure if "thugvb" deleted her own comment on this video or if something else happened to it, but I appreciated her comment and am adding it back to this thread. From "thugvb" on 12/17/20: "Played volleyball and coached volleyball and I hate stepping onto a "novice" recreational game and people start calling the slightest spin as a fault. Most of the time, they were just told by someone else that it was indicator of a bad set. I'd rather play jungle ball allowing the other team double faults and lifts (depending on their level) for fun then playing with people calling "Spins" like they know what they're talking about"

Just play with people who call themselves. You know better than anyone if your set felt wrong. Spin doesn't automatically make a bad set, but most doubles do come out spinny. It's not proof of anything but it is an indicator. All that said, there is no perfect set. There is just setting that meets a certain threshold. Unfortunately, just like with the people calling any spin, that threshold is different for every ref.

In light of the fact that many can double the ball without spin? I co-sign. Any decent ref calls a double how it comes in, as opposed to out.

I've been playing bv for 25 years and never heard a double. So I don't think that's going to help anybody decide whether it was a double or not. While I agree that spin doesn't always have to mean that it was a bad set it is more often than not a good indicator for a bad set imo if the ball rotates more than once or twice.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

A friend of mine never noticed that when he rolled up the windows in his car on the freeway it pressurized the cabin (and our ears). After I pointed it out to him, he noticed EVERY TIME. Have you TRIED listening for a double contact on a hand set? You only hear double contacts when the double contact happens on the way INTO the hands... the same set that will often come out with NO SPIN. I hear double contacts nearly every time I play volleyball, and I hear them consistent with when a player calls their set bad. For beginners who cannot hand set, I agree with your opinion that the ball rotating more than once or twice is more often than not a good indicator of a bad set. Heck, with beginning hand setters nearly ALL the hand sets are bad and nearly ALL the sets have lots of rotation... so it's pretty easy to say, "Hey, that ball rotated three times while it was in the air, so it was a bad set." Also, for hand setters who hold the ball longer and don't break their wrists, I agree with your opinion that ball rotation is more often than not a good indicator of a non simultaneous contact. As players get better with hand sets, however, using "spin" as an indicator of a double contact becomes decreasingly reliable for setters who have shorter contact times and/or break their wrists during the setting motion. Referees are even instructed to use a sliding scale... the longer the ball is held, the more "cleanly" it needs to come out (no rotation), whereas for a setter who sets the ball more quickly, only a double contact should be called and rotation of the ball after the set should NOT be used in determining if it was a double contact (ONLY what happens to the ball during the time it is in contact with the player). This makes sense, because the longer you hold the ball, the less you are able to introduce spin to the ball while still satisfying a simultaneous contact (the exception being if you break your wrists at the end of the set). If you hold it very briefly, then it is trivial to introduce significant spin in any direction while still having simultaneous contact. For example, when you pass a serve receive using both your forearms, you are contacting the ball for a very short time, simultaneously. It is trivial to introduce very significant spin (way more than three rotations) while still achieving simultaneous contact with both your forearms. No one calls your passes double contacts just because they have tons of spin on them. Similarly, if you have quick hands, you will often achieve significant rotation while still satisfying simultaneous contact. As a setter, you certainly can feel a double contact (either on the way in or the way out). You'll notice that often times you have a double contact as the ball enters your hands that you are still able to get out of your hands cleanly, with no rotation. This is still a double, despite the lack of spin. Also, if you have quicker hands and are a decent hand setter, you'll notice that plenty of your simultaneous contact hand sets have noticeable spin on them. Watch an indoor game at the highest level. Those setters are not allowed to get away with double contacts and yet about every third set has more than two rotations on it. The reason is because they are using a quick touch and disguising their sets by flicking their wrists at the last possible moment to help direct the ball in the direction they want... all things that can achieve significant rotation of the ball without needing to double contact it. We are trying to change the legacy of beach volleyball. Spin used to be unacceptable. Now, all the rule sets are specifically saying spin, in and of itself, is NOT A FAULT. Too many people are incorrectly stuck in the mentality that spin is directly proportional to how much you double contacted it... the more spin, the more you you must have double contacted it... the less spin, the better of a set it is. Spin is no longer a valid measure of a good set, but it's stuck in the collective consciousness after so many decades of using spin as the main means for determining the quality of a beach volleyball hand set. If you play at a decent level, STOP calling hand sets based exclusively on spin (amount and direction of spin)... switch to calling based exclusively on what happens while the volleyball is in contact with the fingers -only lifts and double contacts are faults!

@sage1897

2 жыл бұрын

@@BeachVolleyball_SoCal if you can hear a double the person has no clue how to set. Anything more than 1 to 2 rotations it's pretty obvious if it's a double or not

@themiller3319

Жыл бұрын

@@sage1897 There's just no way you believe that. So any ball with 3 rotations should be called and the point awarded to the opponents? Every single time?

0:37 these same reasons apply for first and last contacts using overhand with fingers. (Last has 1 extra reason to be fault)

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

Good point. Thanks. Unfortunately in beach volleyball, hand setting the ball on a first contact has EXTRA STRICT enforcement of the arbitrary "no spin" policy you see at the lower levels, despite that there is NOTHING in the rules that a first ball touch has to be a "cleaner" hand set than a second ball touch (or despite that there is nothing in the rules that spin automatically indicates a "dirty" set). Similarly, if you intentionally set the ball over, people hold that set to a HIGHER standard (especially with regards to spin) than a set to your partner, despite there being nothing in the rules about the set having to be "cleaner" (just aligned with shoulders -and, if using CBVA rules then an intentional set over also has to be contacted above the shoulders). Related CBVA Rule (2020): If the ball is intentionally set into the opponent’s court, the player must contact the ball above his/her shoulders and must direct the ball perpendicular to the direction his/her shoulders are facing. On a related note, your shoulders do NOT have to be square to the ball if you are trying to set your partner, but the ball unintentionally goes over the net, in both CBVA and FIVB (AVP) rule sets. CBVA: A legal set directed towards a teammate that unintentionally crosses the net is not a fault. FIVB: 13.2.5 A player completes an attack-hit using an overhand pass which has a trajectory not perpendicular to the line of the shoulders. The exception is when the player is attempting to set to his or her teammate. Although some players complain that you cannot know someone's intent, I believe intent is unambiguous in terms of setting a partner in 2-person, beach volleyball. If you are intentionally trying to set the ball over the net, you never set TOWARD your hitter (and their blocker)... you tend to either keep it very close to the net if setting slightly over or set a line drive to the deep part of the court. I have never once, in all my time playing and watching beach volleyball, been confused if a player was intending to set it over or not. If the set is in the direction of their hitter, they were trying to set their hitter. If the direction was away from their hitter, they were trying to set the ball over. It's pretty easy to tell intent, in the case of a setter setting their only partner vs. trying to set the ball over for a kill.

@Itstime1231

3 жыл бұрын

@@BeachVolleyball_SoCal Also, at the higher level, if you are trying to set the partner and it goes over, that means the blocker could have been there for the joust or the easy block kill.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

@@Itstime1231 Yeah, we all dread when we accidentally set the ball too tight or, worse yet, over, as the blocker tends to eat those up for breakfast. It certainly shifts the advantage to the blocker if you accidentally set the ball over when trying to set your partner. Glad the rules support continuing play in this instance.

The fact it wasn't totally clear what was wrong about the one bad set that was called is pretty damning. This is the hardest fault to recognize and skill to master for newer players.

Can you do a video "Stop using Below-The-Chin to determine if a hand set is bad"?

Apparently that is a "thing" down in South Florida, lots of inexperienced players, calling bad sets based on spin/ignorance, mostly repeating what another inexperienced rookie told them. A spin is not a sign of a bad set but calling a bad set based on spin IS a sign of zero knowledge of the rules and the game.

@jasonbrown7516

2 жыл бұрын

Do you know what soft hands are?

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

I want to make your comment into a poster :) Thanks for your input!

@japprivera3129

2 жыл бұрын

@@BeachVolleyball_SoCal You can! Thank you for sharing

@japprivera3129

2 жыл бұрын

@@jasonbrown7516 I do

I played some tournaments in Europe…I could close my eyes And maul it and still not be called. Oh I played AVP in late 80’s early 90’s

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, yes! When I watch FIVB beach nowadays, it makes me wonder why people are calling sets so tight at the lower levels. Why hold sets to a higher standard when playing at much lower level than the pros? !

thank you, been preaching this for years.

the 2019 World Championship was held in Hamburg in June-July. the Mexico event was a 4 star I believe.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the correction :)

I broke my left hand in 7th grade…my left thumb was soooo much weaker than my right. Sooooo that would make the ball spin no matter how equally I touched it. For F Sake

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Jason. I injured a tendon in my right thumb which makes it weaker than my left. I have a strange setting motion to compensate for this weak thumb. It's a bit of a pain in the ass setting with a weak thumb. And, some people assume I'm doubling the ball because my setting motion looks weird (it often looks like I "hold" the ball longer with my right hand, but really it is just the way I have to set with that weakened thumb). Sorry to hear you have a similar issue, but I also appreciate your perspective even more because I can relate

My group continues to use spin as a rule of thumb, and it’s very frustrating because it has discouraged me from trying to hand set anymore, interestingly enough they consider carrying a clean set because it stops all the spin from the ball 🤦🏻‍♂️

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it is frustrating to get called for hands on a clean set, just because it comes out with spin. Interestingly, the FIVB just started changing how they call lifts... they have adopted a much stricter approach to lifts. So, the beach game in the last two years has nearly stopped calling spin (only doubles and lifts... and egregious spin) and is suddenly not allowing players to hold the ball for very long... very different from the 90s when you could hold the ball forever, as long as it came out buttery with no spin. Sets for beach are looking increasingly like indoor sets... the ball has to be out of your hands quickly, and some spin is allowed as long as there was no double contact. I hope you keep trying to persuade your group to keep up with the changes rather than playing by enforcement of rules that is now outdated. I feel like I have helped keep the groups I play with up to speed with the times. I just encourage them to watch the pros, and they quickly see how set calls have changed dramatically.

great share thank you. It helps a lot.

All these sets at the highest levels are doubles. Watch the hands. The hands / wrist released balls at different times. You can 100% see the hands release the ball not simultaneously. Yes spin is an indicator of a double contact. The more your hands are evenly together the less spin you get on the ball.

@WellBeingThunderstorm

3 жыл бұрын

You are stuck in the legacy of beach volleyball where spin used to be called... and you are erroneously thinking that a double always creates spin and spin is always a sign of a double contact... You are the "flat Earther" of volleyball setting; uninterested in properly understanding that it is trivial to introduce spin onto an object while touching and releasing that object at multiple points, simultaneously. Try it. You can show yourself within seconds that you can easily touch and release an object simultaneously while introducing spin! Just start rotating an object, then release all points of contact simultaneously. If you do it right, you'll notice that once you start the ball spinning in your hands, then IF you release simultaneously that object will continue spinning after you release it. Double contacts are not allowed indoors either (except on "athletic plays"), and yet every other (non athletic) set indoors has tons of spin. Do you really believe they're just not calling double contacts indoors? If so, you are wrong. They call double contacts indoors... they just don't use ball spin to decide if it was a double... rather they look at whether the ball touched multiple points of contact at different times either on the way in or on the way out of the set... that's it. The refs outdoors are increasingly closing the gap between how doubles are called indoors vs. outdoors and are no longer calling spin, at the highest level of the game. Using spin to decide if a set is no good is an okay strategy for beginners who don't know any better. Based on your KZread handle, I'm guessing you know better. If you insist on not adapting to HOW THE GAME IS CALLED TODAY, just know that many of us (and especially the pros and refs at the highest level) are moving on from how the game USED TO BE CALLED. It's your choice to be both a dinosaur and a flat Earther. Also, if the refs at the highest level of the game started calling spin as a fault again, I would adapt back to calling sets based on spin. I don't really care why they call the game the way they do, and I am interested in playing the game the way it is being played (and refereed) today (rather than in some other era, like the 90s).

@WellBeingThunderstorm

3 жыл бұрын

Also, Sand Volleyball, when you pass a ball on serve receive, you are contacting it with two separate points of contact (both forearms). Why don't you call yourself or anyone else for a double contact when you introduce a ton of backspin on the ball? Spoiler alert, because you didn't double it. You introduced back spin with your passing platform with two points of contact on the ball without double contacting it. Physics.

@asianmtl

3 жыл бұрын

Yesss, i mmm sooo agree!!

@yajstylez

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed, most of these sets are carry and/or double contact BUT definitely disagree that "Yes spin is an indicator of a double contact. The more your hands are evenly together the less spin you get on the ball."; spin is definitely not an indicator of a double contact.

@pro-v7500

3 жыл бұрын

@@WellBeingThunderstorm I don’t disagree with the essence of your comment, but that’s a really bad analogy. You are allowed to double any first contact (serve-receive, hard driven attack, or soft non-driven attack) as long as you make 1 single action to play the ball and it rebounds. Open handed finger (setting) contact is considered “prolonged” contact, not “rebound” contact. So you cannot legally double first touches with finger-setting contact. Exceptions to that rule are: - for hard driven attacks you are allowed to double with prolonged contact (I.e finger-setting). - serves are not considered attacks, so that exception doesn’t apply to serve-receive. This also debunks the inaccurate belief by some people that your hands have to be touching to serve-receive with open hands. That’s not accurate since you are allowed to double contact any first ball as long as it rebounds and your double contact was a result of a single motion/action to play the ball. “Hands touching” is a crutch people use to prevent their hands from using finger-setting contact (meaning if your hands are touching you will not be able to open hand receive with fingers; thus ensuring the ball rebounds instead of using prolonged contact). So while it is an effective way to over hand serve-receive, it’s not actually a requirement.

Been using this logic for years…

My only question is why are you both advertently and inadvertently showing (endorsing?) that 6 finger (not 10) thing? lol

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

Haha! Clint, I don't have many regrets in life, but one regret is how I fold in my pinky and ring fingers while demonstrating setting in this video. Unfortunately, you cannot replace any portion of a video, otherwise I would redo that part and make sure to demonstrate a set using all 10 fingers. I am definitely NOT intending to endorse a 6 finger set. I use all ten fingers (even though 6 do most of the work, I still use all 10, when I'm out on the court).

I've fed up arguing with guys calling Spinning. Double is a mistake, not a spin or rotation

Karch would be proud! Nice job Paco.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

A lot has changed since Karch's day: The court is significantly smaller, making both defense and serve receive easier Games are now rally scoring (a point is scored every play) vs. side-out scoring (had to serve in order to score) which makes games pretty consistently last close to 20 minutes And, they are shifting towards having referees call hand sets more similarly between beach and indoors. Traditionally, indoor setters had a very quick touch on the ball with contact above the head. A spinning ball after a hand set was not considered a "bad" set unless there was a double contact during the setting motion. On the other hand, beach volleyball setters traditionally "held" the ball for much longer while setting, often setting from much lower (e.g., just above the chest) and any spin on the ball often indicated to players that there must have been a double contact. That is changing, as referees of beach volleyball are now giving more of a sliding scale... if the setter sets the ball quickly, they get away with more rotation after the set if there was no double contact... if the setter holds the ball for longer, they get away with less rotation after the set. I personally love all these changes since Karch's day and hope they continue making changes to improve the sport. Volleyball is a great source of physical activity, social interaction, and endorphins for me :D

@frostedflakes55

3 жыл бұрын

Karch had immaculate hands so im not sure about that

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

"Spin isn't always an indication of a bad set." -Sinjin Smith... Karch's partner 01:37 at kzread.info/dash/bejne/Ymusl8aPo7vWedI.html

LOVE it 🤩🥰

The set at 4:25 is called not because of the ball (spinning or not spinning), but because of his body position - he is setting it sideways. He must be setting e ball squared with his shoulders in the direction of the set - either setting forward or backwards.

@KorkoshProductions

3 жыл бұрын

You can set any angle or position you want.

@sharkh20

3 жыл бұрын

That's only for setting over the net on purpose.

@KorkoshProductions

3 жыл бұрын

@@sharkh20 smart man

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

Atanas, although it is certainly desirable form to have your hips and shoulders square in the direction you are trying to set, that is not a requirement for a legal set unless you are intentionally setting the ball over as an attack. All that matters for a set, when you are trying to set your partner, is what happens to the ball while it is in your hands: all points of contact must be simultaneous and the ball must not come to visible rest. Referees are expressly directed NOT to consider body position when determining if the set had a double contact fault or a lift fault.

@atanaschernev1967

3 жыл бұрын

@@BeachVolleyball_SoCal thanks for explaining - makes sense. I think this is how i was taught to be a clean set.

Thinking about the physics of this, if the ball is absorbed with simultaneous contact, and leaves the hands simultaneously, what would cause the ball to have spin?

@hautehussey

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The ball wont have spin unless your hands are spinning! Or the finger contact is so brief that it didn’t halt any spin that the ball already had (which is very unlikely unless it’s not really a set!)!

@galinswigart

3 жыл бұрын

The problem with this theory is that on a purely physics level, the ball is never truly contacted simultaneously. So there is always some very very slight and imperceptible double contact, and outdoors, you’re dealing with wind which can certainly cause spin on a ball that was not truly a visible double contact. But generally, I’d agree. Forward/backward spin is possible, but side to side spin shouldn’t be on a cleanly set ball without wind. I always use spin only to confirm what I already saw, never as the only factor to call a double. If it feels like a bad set AND theirs spin, it’s probably a bad set.

@hautehussey

3 жыл бұрын

@@galinswigart forward or backward would also be a double, just with the thumbs and fingers instead of different hands.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

Let's look at the physics ONLY. If you used a robot that had 6 points of contact on the ball and you started from rest, you could program that robot to toss the ball, introduce spin in any direction as it is accelerating the ball for the toss (by simply moving the points of contact appropriately to introduce rotational velocity), AND release all 6 points of contact simultaneously. This would satisfy the requirement of releasing all points simultaneously while still introducing spin to the ball. Another way to think about it is if you knuckle set with just ONE point of contact, you can EASILY introduce spin on the ball. You are obviously satisfying the "simultaneous" contact rule, because you only have one point of contact.Your knuckle put some tangential force on the surface of the ball, introducing rotational velocity. Having more points of contact with the ball, you can STILL introduce this rotational velocity while it is in your hands (moving your fingers in concert with one another to rotate the ball) AND release all points of contact with the ball at the same time... this results in a legally set ball that has spin.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

@@hautehussey You are correct... if you do not have a double contact, then the way you would introduce spin is by rotating your hands in a way to introduce spin. There is nothing in the rules against rotating your hands to introduce spin. For indoor setters, you see this all the time, as they get their wrists heavily involved in hand setting, trying to deceive the other team until the last possible moment with where they are going to set. As a result, you will see LOTS of spin introduced onto the ball from indoor setters, even though they are not double contacting it. Also, the longer you hold the ball, the harder it would be to introduce spin in this way. Many beach players set by holding the ball long enough it would definitely be called a lift indoors. Those setters tend to have no rotation on the ball when it finally does leave their hands. In these cases, rotation is more likely an indicator of a double contact (or non-simultaneous release of the ball). With setters who have the ball out very quickly (like indoor setters), it's perfectly possible and common to introduce spin during the short period it is in their hands while still having simultaneous contact. AVP and FIVB refs are increasingly being directed to focus only on what happens when the ball is in your hands. They are looking for simultaneous contact as well as not being able to see the ball come to visible rest. At the lower levels, where players aren't as adept at noticing double contacts, a sliding scale is helpful: The longer you hold the ball, the more likely spin indicates you released the ball non-simultaneously (double contact) The shorter you hold the ball, the less reliable spin becomes as an indicator of a double contact

What about the direction of the spin? if you release perfectly with 6 fingers at the exact moment, any other spin than a clean top-spin, and maaaybe a light back-spin must surely be an indicator that the contact was longer with one of the hands. How else can you get a side-spin?

@Paladyr7

3 жыл бұрын

No, you can put lots of spin in any direction while simultaneously catching and releasing the ball.

Okay, so Kageyama's set isn't a fault. Nice!

@eirikjrgensen4753

3 жыл бұрын

no fucking shit, and stop mentioning haikyu in IRL volleyball.

@egomana9329

3 жыл бұрын

@@eirikjrgensen4753 okay. Stop crying, fam. 🤣

Seriously. AZ is the worst when it comes to calling sets. Just LET IT GO!

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, same in Idaho... most players are still relying on "spin" as an indicator of a bad set :/ Changing the world is not easy :)

@ThePandaMike

3 жыл бұрын

@@BeachVolleyball_SoCal it’s unfortunate especially when it ruins the momentum of a good rally

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

Yes... and it can sometimes affect the outcome of a game too.

@ThePandaMike

3 жыл бұрын

@@BeachVolleyball_SoCal game of momentum!

Great comments for when there is a ref, not so good when there’s no ref; you’re gonna cause a lot of arguments btw friends lol. Easiest and possibly only way to call bad sets w/o ref is the visible spin on the ball.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

No Frank! Noooooooo. You couldn't be more wrong. You're living in the past. The game has changed. Stop calling sets based on how much spin the ball has, unless you're a total noob who doesn't really have a clue. Even moderate players can determine if a set is a double contact or a lift based SOLELY on what happens while that ball is in contact with the hands. Stop using the incorrect CRUTCH of relying on spin as a lousy proxy for whether or not there was a double!

🤣🤣🤣🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️Wow 2020's I cant even.

Those are all doubles! They should’ve been called!!!!

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

Greg, when you introduce significant backspin on the ball on a serve receive pass, do you call yourself for a double contact? Why not? According to your logic, you should call all your bump passes that have spin, because you have two points of contact and the ball is spinning after hitting those two points of contact. The reality is that spin can be introduced while also contacting a ball with multiple points of contact, simultaneously. At the highest level of the game, the refs have shifted to using this logic, rather than staying with the legacy of beach volleyball, where spin was automatically called as a bad set. If you are not interested in how the game is shifting and how the referees at the highest level of the game are now calling sets (no longer using spin to decide if a set was bad, but instead only focusing on what happens while the ball is in contact with the setter), then this video is not for you. You can keep on being one of those guys who insists (erroneously) that spin is a double.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

"Spin isn't always an indication of a bad set." -Sinjin Smith... Volleyball legend 01:37 at kzread.info/dash/bejne/Ymusl8aPo7vWedI.html Greg, just because so many players have learned to catch and throw the ball without having it spin does not make those sets the gold standard of sets that any of us should aspire to.

@6077fm

3 жыл бұрын

@@BeachVolleyball_SoCal bad example, because reception is allowed to be double: At the first hit of the team, provided it is not made overhand with fingers) consecutive contacts are permitted provided that the contacts occur during one action.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

@@6077fm Oh come on, Man... so let's say you bump set the ball (second hit)... no one is calling it a double when you introduce spin using a bump set. Or, if you bump the ball over from the back of the court on a third hit scramble... no one calls it a double if you launch that mamba jamba behind you, over the net, with a ton of spin. You are correct that FIVB allows a double contact on the first hit of the team... but no one thinks it is a double when you introduce spin using a bump set or go over on three using a bump over. And no one is saying, oh... because of the spin on the ball, we know you double contacted that bump pass, but we're letting you get away with it because it was your first hit of the team. Pull yourself together, Man.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

@@6077fm It's still a valid example, because if you bump set and introduce spin with a bump set, no one is using that spin to decide if you doubled or not. For example, if you're running to the net to bump set a ball close to the net, you often break your elbows to put backspin on the ball to keep it on your side of the net. This introduction of spin is not associated with a double contact, but rather a simultaneous contact, and is a legal set.

You deleted my comment before, so I'll post an abbreviated version again. Your robot analogy does not work. The robot would have to turn the ball sideways as a lift, or release one point of contact before the others to create spin, no matter how you programmed it. If you're looking at "physics only," planetary-style spin is a result of a lift or a double contact, unless there's extremely heavy wind. There's just no other way to create that motion. It just depends on how much of a fault the players or the ref are willing to allow. The fact of the matter is that refs these days are willing to allow more faults than what was allowed in the 80s/90s.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Volley Ballin'. I did not delete your comment before... I have only deleted Spam comments from this channel. Your full comment is still sitting where you left it, as the 7th sub comment under Eric Paget's comment below. I value your input and replied directly to your sub comment below. Thank you for weighing in on this discussion with your viewpoint that is held by so many. I appreciate it.

@ajamico

3 жыл бұрын

Question… can a ball leave all points of contact while an over hand set is used, but still have spin?

@Paladyr7

3 жыл бұрын

You absolutely can catch and release the ball and create spin in any direction.

Yep, let's not call spin any more and let's let the game go to sh*t. Here's an idea for you all ..... let's get rid of the R1 and R2 and let the players call their own faults ! ..... THAT should make for much more interesting volleyball !

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Snarkey, I am NOT suggesting being more lax about calling hands. Call doubles and lifts properly. Just stop calling spin if it is not associated with a double or a lift (since spin, by itself, is not a fault). If you are at a tournament where the tournament director says to call one and a half rotations, then sure, call spin. Tournament directors can add whatever rules they want. Just know that they are directing you to call spin, because it is easier to call (especially when you don’t have qualified refs reffing the game) for people who don’t know how to call doubles and lifts. If you are at a professional event, with the best refs, you will see that those refs only call doubles and lifts, they are NOT calling a set based on how many rotations it has (nor are they making any assumptions that spin implies a double).

Setting with three fingers huh? LOL

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

Haha... Yeah, when I made this video, I'm not sure why I curled my last two fingers in like that. A regrettable moment, and something I wish I could change about this video (KZread does not let you edit videos after the fact). That is NOT how I set; I set with all ten digits. Oh well... as in life, I make mistakes when trying to do something I'm not good at (e.g., making videos)

Spin indicates a throw!! Let’s reward skill and not turn the sport into jungle ball.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

"Spin isn't always an indication of a bad set." -Sinjin Smith... Volleyball legend 01:37 at kzread.info/dash/bejne/Ymusl8aPo7vWedI.html Steve, just because you may have learned to catch and throw the ball without having it spin does not make your sets the gold standard of sets.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

2 жыл бұрын

The whole point of this video is to point out what the beach volleyball rules themselves point out, that although spin MAY indicate a double contact or lift, spin alone is NOT a fault. That you are stuck believing spin automatically "indicates a throw" means you are stuck in backwards thinking... believing something that is not true.

To me , if the ball spin...DOUBLE...Period

@WellBeingThunderstorm

3 жыл бұрын

When you pass a ball on serve receive, you are contacting it with two separate points of contact (both forearms). Why don't you call yourself or anyone else for a double contact when you introduce a ton of backspin on the ball?

@asianmtl

3 жыл бұрын

@@WellBeingThunderstorm passing and setting , two different things... Not spinning the ball is the art of setting.

@WellBeingThunderstorm

3 жыл бұрын

@@asianmtl WAS the art of setting... WAS The game has changed a lot since the 90's. By the end of 2019, it is clear that at the highest level of the game, with the best refs, they are now allowing SIGNIFICANT spin... as long as that spin was not created by a double contact or a lift. I know many people are not happy about the changes, as they invested a lot of time learning the art of setting a ball without spin. I get it. It's beautiful to witness a nice buttery set coming out of the hands with no rotation at all. It's beautiful... but also no longer a necessary element of a legal hand set for beach volleyball (spin was always allowed on indoor hand sets and now they are increasingly allowing spin for beach hand sets).

@asianmtl

3 жыл бұрын

@@WellBeingThunderstorm was 90 s or not...And who decided or changed the rule?... Some rule aren't meant to changed.

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

@@asianmtl The referees in the AVP and FIVB are enforcing the existing FIVB rules, which don't say anything anything about spin being illegal. Also, California Beach Volleyball (CBVA) Rules as of 2021: ● ROTATION OF THE BALL AFTER THE SET may indicate a held ball or multiple contacts during the set, but IN ITSELF IS NOT A FAULT.

"Stop calling spin!!" -Says everyone with bad hands. No, there is not a rule for spin, just like there is no rule for a line bouncing. But we call a line bouncing "in" because it INDICATES the ball hit the line. Same thing for a spinning set- it spinning indicates you doubled it. Obviously this guy is so frustrated from his bad hands getting called that he felt the need to make a KZread video defending it. I can tell just from the way he holds his hands to illustrate a set that his hands are bad.

@simonbels135

3 жыл бұрын

I see we have an elite avp player here. If you’re Ball never spins it’s most likely a carry.

@mulatto401

3 жыл бұрын

The fact you "can tell" bad hands from a video and demonstration means you know very little of volleyball and should never ref lol

@BeachVolleyball_SoCal

3 жыл бұрын

"Spin isn't always an indication of a bad set." -Sinjin Smith... Volleyball legend 01:37 at kzread.info/dash/bejne/Ymusl8aPo7vWedI.html Natureboy080973, just because you may have learned to catch and throw the ball without having it spin does not make your sets the gold standard of sets.