Do a test on Bilt Hamber Autofoam or Touchless. Then you’ll see a prewash that works.

@FastRedPonyCar

8 ай бұрын

Yeah came to the comments to say this. I think people get wrapped up with results like this showing that there is still that film on the surface from oil and other road chemicals but the thing is that stuff isn't what scratched the paint/clear during the contact wash and the higher PH pre-wash foams from BH not only get rid of the hard sediment and dirt particles but it also starts the process of breaking down the other contaminants in the road film in a way that water alone just can't do. Another key element to this is that this is a much more relevant discussion for people up north than for people like me who live in Alabama and really don't have to deal with the salt and other winter problems like people up north have to contend with. I still pre-wash foam but with a less expensive product than BH stuff but it's mostly just for the aesthetic. The thick foam is fun HAHA.

@btbd2785

4 ай бұрын

When it comes to.people like me who live in the north. Road salt ,whether it's Sodium chloride, calcium chloride magnesium chloride etc It's best to use a LOW PH soap product. Not a Neutral PH or High PH product. Which in this video these products are. Alkaline products DO NOT neutralize these types.of contaminants. Thats one of the main reasons you will get these results. Of course the types of surfactants that they use matters but the PH level in this case makes a considerable difference.

@shibaspeed

3 ай бұрын

@@btbd2785Your comment makes me more confident in my recent purchase of the Adam's Strip Wash, which their description says that it is acidic (low PH). I hope it performs well.

@stewartclanachan3439

Ай бұрын

Touches ph12 will clean but if you’ve got ceramic or waxes it will strip that off too, if you just have paint and no protection then it’s the best

@luigidicarp9521

Ай бұрын

​@stewartclanachan3439 depends on the concentration. In my non ceramic car, i use spray nine 3:7 ratio let it sit for couple minutes,then rinse. then carpro hydro2foam to finish washing and sealing. Been doing this for 5 years now without problems. With salts and chemical ontl the road during winter, i need a hard cleaner/degreaser/ph12+ to take off most the grimes. And most of the time just with carpro reset cleaing.

These PH natural Snow Foam will have minimal effect on the road grime after harsh winter driving. Here in Norway we always use higher PH prewash like KC Green Star, Super Foam or BH auto wash or Touchless etc.

@viewfield5

Жыл бұрын

totally agree, those ph neutral choices were never gonna give great results. additionally snow foams are designed to soften the dirt, then the water from PW blasts thru the dirt onto the panel itself and the dirt will come off, am surprised Jason didn't know that being friends with Alan Medcraf who explains it very well when he owned AM Detsails. On that video thr rinsing is just water sprayed over the panel and not actually being used to blast thru the dirt. The 4 choices of foam I thought before the video wouldn't have any impact on thr dirt on the cars as they are gentle/soft cleaners, lots of more aggressive cleaning foam out there but the Americans think and view snow foam differently to those in Europe, just take Matt at Obsessed Garage who loves Koch GSF but thr cars he washes barely have a light layer of dust on them never mind actual dirt so course it's gonna clean the car.

@laurapalmerTDGE

4 ай бұрын

Or Nerta Carnet Jumbo.

I live in Sweden where we deal with lots of road salt and low temperatures and here we have a slightly different approach. We often talk about three different types of degreasers - cold degreaser, alkaline degreaser and micro degreaser. The cold degreaser is (typically) a petroleum based product, often used to resolve salt, tar and oil type of pollution. This is mostly used during winter and is what is normally needed to fight the traffic film during this period (this looks like what is on the car in this video). This is a product that can be rough on sensitive plastic an corrosion protection, therefore it is recommended to only use on the lower half of the car (below the door handles is a rule of thumb). The alkaline degreaser is used to resolve organic material like dirt. This used year around and it is popular to use in a foam Cannon as a pre-wash. Can be used over the entire car and in winter time in combination with a cold degreaser (since it by itself often have minimal effect on winter road film, that is not the kind of dirt it is made for). The micro degreaser is a product that is a combination of the two others in one. More of a consumer type of product and is often not as effective.

@detailersgarage

Жыл бұрын

Great information, thanks for sharing!

@LKN4WAR

Жыл бұрын

If the cold degreaser a citrus or acid base?

@epap1375

Жыл бұрын

Can you recommend some good cold degreasers that are safe on clear coat?

@lasseblomqvist9378

Жыл бұрын

@@LKN4WAR Neither, it is typically petroleum based although biologically degradable products are available. I think similar products sometimes also are called Tar Remover. Citrus based products are not that big thing here, not sure why it sounds attractive to me considering sustainability, but they are available. Acid based products are often used in some tougher wheel cleaners.

@lasseblomqvist9378

Жыл бұрын

@@epap1375 I personally like Arcticlean Degreaser PRO and BBV Degreaser HD. Other popular products are Pure:est T3 and Tershine Dissolve but I have not tried them myself. There are also similar products from Sonax and Turtle Wax that might be easier available outside Scandinavia.

I LOVE an honest and straight forward product review! Thanks!

This was definitely interesting; however, pre-wash snow foams aren't really meant to *remove* dirt the way most people think of it. Their role is to loosen dirt and contaminants so that the contact wash has a lesser likelihood of introducing scratches and micro-marring in the paint. In that sense, these results are exactly what should be expected (that is, rinsing and letting it dry would look the same as a panel that was only rinsed with water and left to dry). If you're looking for a soap that actually does remove dirt in a touchless manner, you need something that's strongly basic, acidic, or a combination of soaps that shocks the surface by going from one end of the ph scale to the other very quickly. (That runs the risk of damaging the clear coat though.)

@epap1375

Жыл бұрын

Exactly ! The pre wash also softens the road film so it comes off easier once contact is actually made. Chem-X sells one of the only touchless wash soaps that actually works. They use a 2 part system with the acidic soap being sprayed first and then spraying on the alkaline soap immediately after with the acidic soap still on the surface. I’m not sure of the long term effects on clear coat but it sure is effective

@viewfield5

Жыл бұрын

spot on and proper snow foams are not meant to be used with 2BM either, snow foam and car shampoos are 2 totally different products meant to do different things.

@tier1detailing

Жыл бұрын

I've never fully bought into this concept. With something like tar or iron particles, if you try to remove them without "loosening" them, you'll do a number on your paint...but with regular dirt, 99% of the time it already comes off no problem with a typical contact wash. The only goal in my opinion is to lessen the volume of dirt that's on the panel, which requires using a product that's strong enough to do so

@Gnetbird

Жыл бұрын

E Pap...if you use waterless or ceramic after the wash, that will neutralize the other chems.

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment, but if you read any of the labels on the bottles, they say "lifts", "dissolves" and "removes" dirt and road grime. In my testing, I find that there is very little or no difference in the removal or loosening of dirt and road grime vs just using water with these particulate products.

I think one of the main problems with most snowfoams, is that many manufacturers suggests way too thin dillution. I think Bilt Hambers PIR%-suggestions are the right way of doing it. In my case (pressurewasher/foamlance) I'd have to premix 50/50 snowfoam/soap with with water in the dispencer to achieve PIR=3%. When manufacturers suggest 1:9 dillution, you'll end up with a very weak mixture. The downside is that you use a lot of soap if you use a foamcannon. If you want to be more conservative about product usage, you could use a simple pumpsprayer. In fact Bilt Hamber states that Touchless can be applied with a pumpsprayer. That would be an effective prewash if dilluted to 4-5% PIR. I'm using BH Autofoam and BH Surfex HD in a sprayer if needed. Would love to try BH Touchless. Seems to be very effektive on "winter dirt". 🙂 I'm from Norway, and we're used to dirty roads in the wintertime. Here it's reccomended to use high PH soaps in conjunction with a solvent based degreaser (on the lower parts of the car - try not to hit rubber and plastics). That's the reason why I'm a firm believer in using chemicals during the prewash stage. You can see the dirt dissolve when using proper products and proper dillutions. My take on Bilt Hamber "Touchless": It's sugar-based. I'm not a chemist, but I'm thinking it has solvent properties (ethanol?) combined with a pH of 12. If used in a pumpsprayer, it should be cost effective too. I typically cover my small SUV with 1L/1000mL of product. A PIR=5% would be 50mL or 1,7 ounce of soap per wash. That would be my proposal for an effective prewash. Also remember that Bilt Hamber use corrosion inhibitors in their products. They know what they are doing, and that's why I use Bilt Hamber products when washing my car.🙂

@epap1375

Жыл бұрын

Can you recommend some automotive solvent degreasers for the bottom portion of the car? I live near Buffalo, NY and drive a truck with big off road tires that absolutely covers the lower sides in road film that is very tough to remove. I’ll try some BH touchless in my IK 12 foamer on the whole car but would love something with more muscle for the lower portion.

@RojohII

Жыл бұрын

@@epap1375 You could try Carpro TarX. Probably expensive, and there's probably similar and less expensive products around - but I'm not familiar with US brands. But it should work very well. I'd just give the lower panels a very light mist. Let it dwell a couple minutes (don't let it dry) and then foam the car with prewash foam. That will let the product dwell without drying.

I like putting 10 mil of greenstar in the GSF bottle when I’m using it as a pre wash. Green star is our goto in a IK pump for the engine bay. So we tried it it works better than most dedicated pre-washes a lot of that road film is oil and tire rubber dust. We were finding tire dust up to 20 stories up on some of our high rise jobs.

The importance of this comes down to science, which is obviously not shown in this video. Understanding the basics of pH levels, which are provided by most consumer based pre foams for the most part, is what makes the difference. Pre foaming first with an alkaline base then a citrus acidic base makes the world of a difference for maintenance washes. Alkaline helps remove road grime, films, and most things associated with caked up dirt. Acidic based, or citrus, helps remove mineral deposits such as rain spots, water spots, bird droppings. This is also highly recommended for ceramic coated cars because eching is also prevalent and easier to remove with citrus based pre foams. Lastly, you have essentially neutralized it and now want to follow up with a pH neutral soap via two bucket method. This ensures a quality, thorough wash via pre foaming and contact washing. The more you know.

I dont prefoam, but I do use foam to help with lubricity. So ill foam, and then wash with more bucket soap.

@kubenderanpillay8745

3 ай бұрын

I use it to soften the dirt as well to prevent scratching

Bilt Hamber’s “Touchless” foam is even better than their “AutoFoam”

I use Bilt Hamber over in the UK with a dwell time of 4 mins and it genuinely remove huge amount so would love to see you test this over in the US I have used in the region of 10 other snow foam and BH was miles better but thats just my opinion and if am honest I did think these were total crap which to a certain extent you have proven they are. Great watch as always guys

You need to use very low acidic 3 -or high 11 + alkaline soaps to remove all that grime. But people rather not use that and use near neutral soaps to remove the stuck on grime. That is why we have to polish all the time. And deal with paint failure.

Totally agree, been rinsing with water, foaming and hand washing for years. If really bad I add 2 ounces of P&S enviro clean to the cannon, but that’s about it. Thanks for being objective on this🤙

Thank you for your honesty.

Thanks for this test. Extremely helpful.

What about prewash with ONR or other Rinseless wash

Great review and tha k you for making it good to see a professional being honest about products.

Thank you for doing this test. When I started to see this a few months ago on KZread I added it to my routine but felt it was wasting time and product. My cars are all ceramic coated so I’m sure they are well protected and can endure a pre-rinse with very little damage. I will continue to prefoam and let it dwell but go right to the two bucket method and save myself 20 minutes and from wasting soap. This was super helpful to validate what I was thinking.

THANK YOU. This is the video we needed!

Lots of comparisons online from other reviews state that Bilt Hamber Auto Foam is the clear winner with prewash solutions. 2 oz in your canister and 30 water (depending on the gpm of your washer) is the starting point.😊

@TheGingerOneNI

Жыл бұрын

Built Hamber touchless is also very good. You want a 4% PIR with it. John at Forensic Detailing Channel on KZread often reviews the Bilt Hamber and explains how to work out your PIR as it will vary depending on pressure washer and foam lance.

@jerryguillaume6435

Жыл бұрын

How does the Bilt Hamber Auto Foam compare to Super Clean diluted at 4:1 in an IK foamer?

@michesbianan

Жыл бұрын

@@jerryguillaume6435 Super Clean will perform better in that contest.

@PolishedMobileDetailing503

Жыл бұрын

@@jerryguillaume6435 lol.. definitely the incredibly strong degreaser.

@MBV180

Жыл бұрын

Too bad it’s 3x the cost in the states vs where it’s from lol

The only one I have tried where I can see the dirt coming off the car is bilt hamber auto foam at a 4% PIR. Yes the PIR is important. I’ve even watched it pull brown from tires when using it. This does make it about a 1:1 dilution in my current setup, which tends to be on the higher price costing a few CAD dollars per pre wash The other one I was going to try was Koch chemie super foam which has the higher ph of 12 and a dilution of around 1:50 or more. Much more economical but I’d like to see how that compares to bilt hamber.

awesome comparison. thanks!

nice comparison. my decon process for ceramic coating vehicles are - iron decon vehicle while dry, rinse, snow foam, wash. i personally use the snow foam to carry away any residual purple bleeding from iron decon and also extra lubrication during the wash process. and yes, customers love the snow foam pictures. good to know that i dont need to buy a dedicated snow foaming soap now though lol

Thanks brother for everything u help me out alot 💯

Thanks for sharing this ❤

Impressive. I love this video. Sometime it is good to know we get as good results stopping doing something

I personally spray panel down with a rinse less solution. But I was wondering about Koch Chemie Active foam as a pre soak. Was hoping to see it in this comparison.

Great Video. Thanks!

if you want better cleaning power, you need a higher PH snow foam. But the main reason we use pre-foam is adding lubrication before you water rinse it. If not, dirt and grime will just introduce micro marring with plain water rinsing (the water just dragging the dirt across the surface with no lubrication).

@jacobheinz8236

6 ай бұрын

Ever heard of wet sand blasting? Well that’s what is happening with just water blasting without foams as lubricants. One test is hardly sufficient to judge that foaming is a waste of time. Has to repeat this test numerous as in real world maintenance washes.

I love my bilt hamber touchless, i use it about 30ml in a 1L IK sprayer when i go to a self service. Fantastic stuff

I don’t like hitting the car with a pressure washer right off the bat. I alway pre soak with foam and allow time to break and loosen the embedded stuff then spray off before I do contact wash. Same way I spray apc on bird poop that’s been sitting in the sun for some time. I don’t just start rubbing it off right away I let the product break it down loosening it up. It just feels less aggressive.

I only use snow foam as a lubricant for the contact wash and because its my favorite part of the detail! I tend to stick with soaps that are high foaming and lubricity that are around $20-$25 a gallon. As for a pre-wash I use Super Clean diluted 4-1 in my IK Foamer. This actually breaks down road grime and allows you to blast off about 50% of the grime with the pressure washer. This, however, I do not recommend with a ceramic coating and I would actually go with one of these soaps instead of maybe KochChemie Active Foam. I only do Super Clean diluted at 4-1 on details where the exterior is trashed and needs that high alkaline cleaner to, in a sense, strip the paint clean for a new layer of protection after the wash. Great video on these soaps by the way! I have been looking in the CarPro Lift for a while to see if I wanted to give it a try in my business. Might still pull the trigger on it seeing how high foaming it is!

super helpful thank you

I believe that the results of this test might have been more telling of the proper dilution was used in something like an IK Foamer rather than dilution in a foam cannon which then further dilutes it as it is applied with the pressure washer. This is why "panel impact ratio" is relevant.

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

The back of the bottle has the recommended dilution for foam cannons.

@wayneflynn1177

Жыл бұрын

@@Carsupplieswarehouse I guess every pressure washer and foam cannon output the same then... 🤔

@G17-911

Жыл бұрын

The differences from foam cannon to foam cannon are negligible.

I totally agree. I use the snow foam and it didn't do much. I then went to superclean at 1:4 for my foam Cannon and the results were amazing. It got rid of all the salt on my car in Winter driving and Road film. I Then followed it regular car wash soap and it looks showroom New. As shown in other videos it took about 30 car washes to degrade the wax I had on my car from the superclean when used at this ratio

The thing is that foams work great on well maintained vehicles that aren’t caked in dirt. Bilt Hamber is the only effective snow foam outside of doing an APC rinse. My opinion of course, I detail for a living.

1. Kcx now usually recommends all their soaps to be 10:1 in the foam cannon. 2. Gsf has great lubrication but not the emulsification of Af or Sfn. Sfn is almost a touchless in about a minute of dwell. Not commenting to say I know more than anyone, but using a lot of gsf and sfn: sfn would strip about everything off. Gsf is good to foam and in the bucket for the contact wash.

I use Koch Chemie super foam with green star!, that’ll break it down for sure

I’d be interested in seeing if a higher PH prewash like KC active or super foam yields the same results.

@ChicagoAutoPros

Жыл бұрын

Looks like a have a second video to do!

@tomekkubiak_

Жыл бұрын

I recently bought Good Stuff Taffic Film Remover (sister brand to Work Stuff) mid-winter and the result was so great that I just skipped the main wash that time. There was a clear difference in places where I missed spots.

@muchachogrande2019

Жыл бұрын

This is the thing I always find. No matter how many times someone says their pH neutral snow foam cleans so well due to emulsifiers and detergents and so on, it's never enough to really make a difference big enough to matter. Sure those things are a part of the equation and they absolutely make a difference but honestly it's pretty much only a difference to make some slightly better than the others but still nothing to write home about. Then ultimately I still find myself using a proper higher pH pre-wash. It goes both ways though, pH isn't everything and two soaps with the exact same pH aren't guaranteed or likely to produce the exact same results as one another.

@adamsdetails

Жыл бұрын

@@ChicagoAutoPros That would be awesome! Something else that came to mind was low PH options like Carpro descale or similar. High vs low PH against various elements like dirt/grime or the road salt you’re dealing with now.

1:10 is actually 11 parts total.

Honestly it really depends on the vehicle and the time of the year but I take different approaches. If there's a lot of film on there I'll use a high alkaline prewash or do an APC spray and foam over it to get more dwell time. If it's winter and the car is caked with salt and calcium buildup I actually like to use something more acidic like a water spot remover or something of that nature, or now that carpro descale is a thing I'll go with that. Really though I haven't been impressed in the least with any of the foams used in the video. I would try a good citrus pre-wash or something like kcx super foam.

@muchachogrande2019

Жыл бұрын

If you really want to jump down this rabbit hole Jon from the forensic detailing channel has done several very good videos on the subject with multiple rounds of testing different products and approaches (applying before a pre-rinse vs after, real world tests, simulated road film tests, etc...). But if you want the quick spoiler there are absolutely lots of really great pre-washes out there, especially from outside of the US as they've embraced non pH neutral stuff more than the US. Bilt Hamber, kcx super foam and active foam, garage therapy, wax planet, all make some great soaps that have some bite.

Foam is useful to show you where you have pre-washed the car.... it's just an indicator so you don't miss anywhere before you go in with the contact. ;)

I think Built Hamber Auto Foam vs Car Pro Descale would be cool

Great video! Would you be able to try the Bilt Hamber Auto Foam and Touchless products. I know the Auto Foam isn't advertised as a prewash but would like to see the difference. Thanks 👍🏼

Thank you for exposing the myth that you don't have to actually touch the car to remove the grime. From the other comments, I'm seeing that a snow foam is simply meant to loosen the dirt so a gentler (mechanical) washing can more easily eliminate it from the surface. This makes sense to me. Again, thanks for this very clear demonstration.

One big factor apart from traffic film, which will not be cleaned by neutral foams nor shampoos, it`s the dust and dirt which will be cleaned by the snow foam. And no, it will not be cleaned by just blasting water. I`ve done many attempts with touchless procedure in self-service washes and never succeeded.

Great video congratulations i love it and i agree.... Can i make 2 suggestions, on twicking a little this test and i think you will find VERY interesting results. 1. You can try strong foam pre wash soaps like Bilt hamber, or koch chemie the strong versions as,af,vbr, ( we love them here in Europe witch we have tons of road film) 2. When you apply the foam, and BEFORE the panel dry again after the rinse , do this.....put your finger again on the wet surface over the grime....you will feal something VERY interesting , different on both sides ( the one witch is been foamed and the one witch is not). BUT if you let the grime dry again.....will have the results as the video states. Again congratulations...my kind regards

My experience with this kind of dirt is similar. But add a layer of mud/red grit like you get on Colorado winter roads and then the difference is very obvious when you use a pre soak. I use Carpro Lift and Griots surface prep. Those carpety/felt wheel liners? Watch the dirt come flying out of those. Super Clean 4:1 also does wonders on those.

I have to agree with you. I use Adams Car Shampoo to foam it, it removes grime better, rinse then contact wash with Adams Car Shampoo again. Super clean

Honest answer therefore like you mentioned there is the way that is the safest to use as the 2 bucket method

How about hitting a panel with something like ONR or Absolute first and then comparing that to a panel only rinses with water?

I am of the same opinion I use a citrus pre wash through a non foam sprayer this loosens the heaviest dirt and dwells a lot longer , cover the whole car rinse off then 2 bucket contact wash

Great video! I was always sold on it before but started questioning it a little bit ago and this just further proved it for me.

@bmyers4321

Жыл бұрын

I’d be curious how carpro descale would compare to these since it can be used as a foam but is an acid wash. Obviously not for regular use but on a vehicle that is very dirty

towards the end you mentioned iron fallout on the jeep. id be curious to see how much purple reaction youd get from both sides after a rinse .

Use an acid based pre-wash for road salt/mineral films. If you did this test in the summer you'd have a better result on a dirty car.

I have used snow foam and i agree it still leaves a layer of dirt on the cars , so I'm hoping it just removes any loose dirt as it falls off before i do a contact wash . I am now more tempted to snow foam the car then rinse then re snow foam for contact wash to see if that works but as i only have just started out doing cars I'm still learning .

Is there any store products that you’d recommend as a prewash and a hand foam cannon/pump for when using a average neighborhood DIY car wash? for COLORADO with the mag-chloride and other road grime here.

I did see a difference with the Carpro Lift and the Gyeon Foam, as compared to just plain water. What you may be seeing with these gentle snow foams that are close to Ph 7 is the lower amount of surfactants, making them less alkaline and less effective in lifting dirt. These might be better for cars with wax coatings that might not be able to withstand harsh detergent soaps. I foam my coated car dry with Gyeon Foam at a 4% PIR on distilled water through an iK Pro 12 pump sprayer @ 60 psi. I use about 2 liters of solution for the prewash and let it dwell for about 5 min. The results are excellent foam that clings for a long time and that leaves the surfaces pretty clean. I follow up with a Gyeon Bathe+ hand wash and a blow dry with an electric leaf blower. The car looks great, 3-stage polished and coated black finish, with no scratches or swirls installed by my weekly maintenance washes. My car doesn't get dirty enough that it needs harsh cleaners.

Question about ceramic coatings and what you are performing....I'm assuming that you have a ceramic coating on these cars? if so, at 2:22...you can see that the bottom of the doors reacts to the water differently than above the halfway point. I noticed the same thing on my car with a ceramic coating. Is this normal or is the ceramic dead at bottom of door prematurely. your help is appreciated. thanks

Great video and review as always Jason. Really great topic was super educational and informative.

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Excellent video

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

I'm the same, I foam with Reset and then use the foam to wash. I don't see any benefit to washing it off, just to foam it again before my contact wash.

Great video Jason as always. I know of a product that you may wish to test for pre-foam cleaning. I am very close to your Lombard store and would be happy to run some over to you.

Thanks, in the winter here in Connecticut I don't bother using a snow foam. Been using a rinseless wash and it is quick and effective. If it is really caked up I will pretreat with Koch Chemie AF.

For my process, I always rinse the vehicle with water from the pressure washer first. Then I foam, dwell and rinse for about 3-5 minutes. I then rinse off the first foam and apply a second foam layer which is used to lubricant the finish to help with the contact wash.

Would theoretically need to know which of hose/pressure sprayer/foam gun/foam cannon causes the least marring as a pre-wash too. Plus rinseless or APC as a pre-wash

Great video

I’m glad this was finally addressed and it confirmed it for me. I’m a single man detailer. It’s a side gig but I have done just about all the things I’ve seen on KZread if the folks I follow. Snow foam does not do it for me even though I’ve done it to do it. I will stop wasting product now. I do use ONR first and then rinse. It does lift some dirt but not all. Reducing scratching is key. I mostly snow foam and then contact wash without buckets as I rinse my wash media before each panel. Better than a bucket. I have not seen a single channel do this method. (Rinsing media each panel with pressure wash) that does more than a grit guard. My opinion. Love learning and watching.

@LKN4WAR

Жыл бұрын

Dallas paint correction has done rinse each time in one of his videos.

@mikemosr.280

Жыл бұрын

So does Attention 2 Details. She uses the one bucket method and rinses her wash media before each panel.

I used many times just APC because didn't see difference when used the Gyeon pre-foam, just used APC and foam for contact washing and several years ago just continued with Rinseless since can also do Rinseless inside the vehicle. Has been more cost effective for me and APC also has been more effective than pre-foaming

EPIC Comparison. Great analysis & reproduceability of each, Jason. Thank you for the confirmation! 👍🏼👍🏼

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

There’s a reason it’s called pre-wash. You don’t have to prewash foam however it’s meant more for breaking up and loosening tougher dirt/ grime/ sap, etc. some feel going straight into pressure washing with heavier dirt may cause small scratches/damage so they prefer to first pre-wash foam > pressure wash > foam > 2 bucket wipe down. If it’s not heavily soiled you could skip the first foam.

Nice work Jason, great idea to test. Interesting results. I would like to see you add DIY Detail Incedible Suds into the test.

I used a snow foam for the first time this past weekend. I could literally see the dirt contrast with the soap. A lot was removed that could’ve “caused” swirls.

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

Do a side-by-side test with your foam compared to just water.

I have used a lot of foam products and yes they do look really cool. Personally I just presoak in DIY rinseless and then rinse if necessary or go straight to the contact wash. It just takes experience to determine what wash process to use for different types of soiled vehicles. Personally for unclogging coated cars CarPro Descale has give the outcome I am looking for.

@ChicagoAutoPros

Жыл бұрын

I’ve used descale on another car and had little to no change.

@neilwalker5041

Жыл бұрын

@@ChicagoAutoPros ugh the Chicago winters are a lot gnarlier than here in Nashville. To elaborate I follow up the presoak with descale in the wash bucket too which definitely helps. Thank you for the shop talk as I’m always thinking of more efficient methods.

Thanks for giving your test results. Very important to understand that I think both vehicles are coated, and that road grime or traffic film bonded to the surface. A good contact method is required to restore the the shine.

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

Only mine was coated.

Are pre soaks also designed to activate or interact with the next layer of actual soap? That would make sense for them to work together and be designed to work hand in hand

I'm with you on skeptical results. The 2 I've used specifically labeled as pre-foam are Griot's Foaming Surface Wash and Ethos Foam Party. The later I remember Jimbo Balam showing it worked for him for touchless car washes but it was on a CA car and we don't see the type of film you do. The other related topic I've seen is whether you should pre-rinse before applying these because the water being laid down first could dilute or take away from the soaps ability to attack the dirt directly. I think Forensic Detailing Channel had a video talking about it. Maybe try and consider these if you do a retest.

Pan did the test with the Bilt Hamber Auto Foam and it was very effective. Maybe because the Ph is higher I don't know

I presoak using 3D nano pails pre soak for dirty vehicles and there wash soap for cleaner/ coated vehicles. No prerinse due to it being far less effective in my testing clean the wheels then rinse and it's usually 70% clean before the contact wash. The way I tell if it's working is if the hydrophobics change significantly after the prewash, no chemical that I would say is safe for coating is not going to remove road film without the contact. After watching Lake country do the chemical resistance of two top brand coating lines and toppers I definitely wouldn't use a citrus based soap or prewash regularly since it was one of the most damaging to coating, they used isopropyl alcohol, 2 different tar/degreasers a vary strong prep spray and even a paint thinner.

Thx for doing what you do… hands down your videos are my favorite

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate that!

Bilt Hamber for the win

I use snow foam which in my opinion softens any dirt stuck to the car before jet washing and cleaning and i use Bilt Hamber , it does look like it lifts alot of the dirt off but there is still a fine layer of dirt left behind because the with the 2 bucket contact wash the rinse bucket water is always dirty at the end.

100%. There is no substitute for contact wash. I do like foam for home use because it's pretty and gives an even layer of soap for my wash mitt to glide over (I still use a soap bucket for my wash mitt). Way too much extra cost and time for a detail shop :)

I want to see what an all purpose cleaner pre rinse vs water pre rinse. Green Star. Super Clean ect.

The only thing I would say about this comparison is that you didn’t add something like active foam or super foam from Koch chemie. The products you chose are made for coated vehicles so they have some bite but not enough to really tackle winter grime. My pre rise consists of using a degreaser or super foam which do an amazing job of stripping 70-80 percent of the dirt from the surface.

@SiXSpeedSolo

Жыл бұрын

This car is coated in a professional grade coating

@Carsupplieswarehouse

Жыл бұрын

LOL, They are selling them to remove dirt and grime from the surface. They didn't do shit! I will use a second set of products in the next video to see if we can find one that actually does what it's supposed to do.

I never expected snow foam to remove road film, but do use it to loosen and help remove larger dirt particles prior to the contact wash. I like having the layer of lubricity on the surface when there are dirt particles and they are being blasted with a high velocity stream of water. I don't know for a fact but suspect that the detergents in the snow foam will help to start emulsification of the road film, making its removal with the contact wash easier and less prone to scratching. I do this on a coated black car and haven't instilled scratches due to my washing and drying, drying done with a leaf blower.

Always thought it was just an extra step, now it's confirmed.

Bilt Hamber Touch-less (UK) is a really brilliant cleaner in my experience. Sugar-based so unique in the market. Do try it!

It would be interesting to see what would happen if half a car were lathered up with foam and sat for a bit and the other side of the car not and see how they differ over time. I've never seem anyone spray the foam on and let it sit for a bit and rinse it off. The benefits may be more of a long term thing rather than something we can see in a few minutes.

It’s all about Panel Impact Ratio when it comes to foam cannons. Those ratios aren’t much better that just plain water (as witnessed)

I think if you had put some Bilt Hamber Auto Foam in the test you would have seen a difference. I think a pre-wash with a citrus cleaner in a pump sprayer and a good wash does a better job. Most snow foams are just a gimmick but as you say people like them and keep on doing what makes you happy.

Excellent and honest review as always, with high quality products. You've opened a can of worms here - citrus degreasers/ TFRs as a prewash next..?

Another comparison idea. Alkaline vs acidic APC prerinse Snow foam + apc prerinse. I personally have good success with an apc prerinse. I spray entire vehicle and I can clearly see it breakdown anything and rinse off, better than just a normal rinse. But it’d be nice to see a side by side comparison.

Agree with you 100%! I want the most bang for my $$ and this definitely looks to be a waste of $$ and time for me.

most the time i use snow-foam as a lubricant to shampoo. Turtle wax slick and slide foamed on the car then shampoo straight after works amazing... Bilt Hamber touchless actually does clean though as a snow-foam.... usually for a dirty car i use a citrus spray on the bottom half of the car then snow foam with BH Touchless and that will remove lots of dirt before shampoo contact wash.

Hi this argument has been around among users for a long time. However the came up with PIR now days. So would that had made any difference in the performance? Because value wise it makes it unbearable for either the weekend warrior or business

Perfectly timed video as I was JUST about to waste money

So I bought a pressure washer that had a foam cannon and while I started to use it dealing with dried on dust/specks of mud I was also fairly disappointed with how ineffective this step is for actually removing stuff vs just pressure washing it. I do use this if the car is very dirty, has been neglected for a while just to get any help/lubrication I can or am going to decon it for claying/coating it, but I usually just use the same soap I use for washing the car, no pre-rinse specific cleaner. I'd considered maybe buying a pre-wash specific soap but from what I'd seen online I'd been unimpressed, and this video just drove that home. Again, I'll do this with a rinse and then two bucket if the car is really dirty/neglected, but otherwise I'll either just use water or fold this as the soaping up and use less soapy water from my clean bucket to get the car clean. As always, thanks for the content.

I like to use rinseless wash. Seams like it makes the most sense to me. I do own a foam cannon but rinesless makes my life easier.

What you call "road film" is mostly petroleum by-products like grease and oil. If you want a pre-goam to helpbstart removing that, you need to add something like an APC or a degreaser to your foam cannon snow foam mix. Like adding Koch Chemie Green Star to GSF, or Bilt Hamber Surfex HD to Auto Foam or Touch-Less, etc. Most snow foams just help sort of loosen the dirt for the hand wash stage. Though some like Bilt Hamber Auto Foam, or my favorite Touch-Less, actually remove dirt on their own.