Hi Matt, great video as always, I have used various stealth aerials over the years, 3 years ago we decided to cash in on the huge equity in our house, sold up and retired to a park home (Static caravan). I have aerial restrictions,. My HF aerial is an end fed wire of 111 feet, I feed it with a home made wide band transformer, which works with lengths of wire as little as 33 feet, and then uses wires in multiples of 11 feet. it runs up my down pipe along the inside of the gutter clips, up the eves into the opposite gutter and back down the other side of the van. It works and I also only use 5 watts QRP CW only, as another challenge lol. It Blows me away how well it works, it loses so much local noise being low,. I have QSOs most days, an in the commonwealth contest I even got a 339 from VK land, when the condX were really good earlier in the year. I also have a simple vertical dipole just for 10 meters (flower pot), I run this up a 10 meter fibre glass pole and have a wind sock on it so the neighbours and park owners have no idea it is for radio.. I have played with aerials since i was a boy and have learnt Aerials do not read books so all the theory helps but some times just try it and suck it and see. In the past I have loaded up chain link fences, cast iron gutters, whirly gig washing lines, factory rooves normal laundry lines if the nylon chord has a metal strainer running through, and its amazing what will actually radiate a low power signal. Thanks again for all you do for the hobby, 73 De Richard G0VCW TU dit dit

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment Richard. Exactly this point I was trying to make "Aerials do not read books so all the theory helps but some times just try it and suck it and see". I think with all the theory of how antennas work best, we forget that antennas can still work in other ways or positions. Hopefully this video will inspire people to try, regardless of the theory and best practices. Good job on your installation, if it works, then it works! 73 Take care...

Thanks for sharing this "imperfect" antenna that works. I've had to do some similar things because of restrictions at my house and I am amazed at what the less than textbook antennas can do. Nice illustrations with the SDR.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Cheers!

Almost finished constructing my fan dipole in the loft. Got: 160, 80, 40, 30, 20, 17 so far (no ATU needed on any band, except for 160 where I only have 100kHz of bandwith below 2:1). Wires bent back and forth, up and down ect. It's not going to be the most efficient antenna in the world, but......beggars can't be choosers when space is restricted and I'm on the bands including 160m.

@bassangler73

Жыл бұрын

Anything is better than nothing!!! I hope you make many contacts!

@RedeyeParker

7 ай бұрын

ATU you

I've had amazing luck with antennas that were way too low and shouldn't work. In fact, I have a WSPR beacon running where the EFHW fell on the ground! It's been months since it fell from the tree, and I still get reports nightly from all continents.

@markhill9912

Жыл бұрын

I've had the same results with a 100+ foot long wire on the top of my 6ft wood fence. It's always fun to string out wire and see what it does.

@mrtechie6810

8 ай бұрын

What full-size wire antenna would you recommend for fixed 5W QRP?

Thanks for sharing & for all the useful content you share Matt. I'm running a setup that loops right around my property & has surprisingly good recieve results. Would be really interested to do a back to back transmit test between your 2 antennas to see & hear the difference.

This is very close to what my actual EFRW antenna is! I didn't loop it under like you did on the end but that is an interesting idea to get a longer wire going. Mine is currently about 25.6M long and 1.8M AGL. 73 from KF4HZU!

Thanks, Matt 😁

It is surprising how gain and reception a low long wire can get. I use an Inverted V on my very tall tree to 80 feet at the top V point. I was trying to get as much height as possible, so the tree was a gift from God! The side wires were connected to two shedscon each side with black nylon robe that is strong and resilient to sun and wind. It works well, just need to make sure that I transmit on the frequencies for the antenna. It resembles a zeplain antenna placed on a balloon zeplain. I will be making sure I match and tune the antenna and frequencies. No transmitting 80 meters on a antenna made for 40 meters ! This is where I need to grow and take care to label my coax lines and my HF radios big time, big and clear!

Very helpful vid mate!

@TechMindsOfficial

5 ай бұрын

Youre welcome :-)

I have put antennas in crazy places. You do what you have to sometimes.

I'm always amazed by what can be done 'outside' the laws of physics.

Good one Matt, I have a 9:1 attached to a 41M antenna made from flexweave attached to the fence at 2M height using electric fence insulators and it works well but as you say it's very much NVIS with a great bias for Europe stations ..not really great fro DX but better than nothing my Noise Floor is S9+++ so you can imagine it's not fun but I do a lot of FT8 to get out !!

That is a mullion dollar view from your garden!

Many thanks for sharing this. It's always great to see things tested in reality. Interesting that the antenna has an OK-ish VSWR and of course, no surprise that you loose a number of dBs in comparison to your antenna at a proper height. I made some simulations using NEC. I found that at low antenna heights the antennas main beam direction is going vertically up to the sky. So I guess, the loss of some dBs is mainly caused by the unfavorable radiation characteristics.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

The OK-Ish VSWR was down to the 9:1 unun I believe and the matched length of 41m of wire. The kit is sold to work from 160m to 10m with internal ATU. To be honest, its just what I had laying around in the garage. There are other methods I wanted to try but the video was getting long as it was. I also wanted to try creating a resonant dipole, say for the 10M band, and then just attaching that to the top of the fence. Maybe I will do some more videos on this with specific bands. Cheers!

@electronics.unmessed

Жыл бұрын

@@TechMindsOfficial I am really curious on your next videos with low antenna height. Maybe I can carry out a NEC simulation to see, whether there is any chance to avoid that the antennas main lobe is shooting up to the sky. BTW: I covered low antenna height in 2 videos about a simulating commercial 20m and a 40m antenna simulation.

You would most likely have an even better result, taking the same wire, only much less and creating two rectangular loops one on one fence, one on the other and run them through e.g. an LZ1AQ preamp each and use a phase-shifter (or e.g. RSPDUO with SW phaseshifter) ... this way you would have an ultra wideband RX only antenna that you could turn electrically, nulling out noise and unwanted signals and it would be all stealth and probably outperforming the signal to noise of your high endfed wire. By the way I love your property, that location and its view is a dream - brilliant choice! Oh and by the way, hardcore DXers user beverage antennas that are just as low as that but they are way longer (few hundred meter) and are terminated on the end. I can not explain how they work exactly, would have to do some reserach, but they can have an outstanding signal/noise in DX with a little preamp, even if the cable is literally laying on the ground. If you know that the farmer next door is not working on his field, you should definitely lay 1000ft of wire flat on the ground and maybe put a 600 Ohm resistor on the end with a little metal rod in the ground, connect it to your balun and maybe run a high sensitivity SDR on it, like an Airspy-HF and try that. It might knock your socks off. Try it on the very low bands ... 80m downwards ... including medium- and longwave! In that location you have to try this out, it doesn't cost you a penny! I have had a similar wire laying flat on the ground a few decades ago and I have been using it for MW DX with great results. This obviously does not work when your ground water level is very high, like in a swampy area, but in most locations it should work fine.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

I've seen some antenna designs which are terminated through a resistor to ground at one end. I really want to try these myself. Cheers

@n1vca

Жыл бұрын

@@TechMindsOfficial You really have to try this. Which direction is this open space? If I remember correctly, the terminated end is the favoured direction of the antenna.

@paulsengupta971

Жыл бұрын

"This obviously does not work when your ground water level is very high" - not so good for the UK then most of the year round! 🙂 Callum has had great results with a long (was it 160m long?) wire antenna at about chest height. The main lobes are long the length of the wire.

I figure this might work well in my attic.

Cool idea

@TechMindsOfficial

7 ай бұрын

Glad you think so!

I wired up 2 window frames with tuner and 5watts at 120ft asl in a tower block, got Europe no problem in the 30mins of my "Super test".

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Awesome!

Pretty good RX, how about TX on the fence antenna?

Loves the "zips"going across at random And the " wobbler" at 4.16 someone's got to make a vid of these soon...not alot of noise floor difference between...was the random wire tuned on each band with an AtU...?or just as is...

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

No ATU on either antenna, they were plugged directly into an RSPdx A and B port ;)

Sounds pretty comparable. A little more noise on the lower antenna, but that could probably be tracked down if it were for a more permanent setup.

What a NICE place you live in, beuatifull.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Thank you :-)

@paulsengupta971

Жыл бұрын

@@TechMindsOfficial Terrific view from there!

I have found that if you install wire aerials using 24swg enamelled copper wire, they are almost impossible to see. Also surprisingly robust, just the occasional snap if a pigeon hits it.

I used this setup but with 36ft of wire and ran it around the edge of my attic which is 8m high - my receive is strong but my transmit is poor, when I am heard I am heard well but most people on FT8 seem to pass me by. Compared with my DIAMOND BB6W which is setup at only 2m above ground in an inverted V I get lots of instant contacts even when I use my noisy USDX+ on it! I will put my DIAMOND up in the attic this weekend and see how it performs as a comparison. If its much stronger, I may have to relegate the end fed to attic decoration, which will be a shame as I was hoping it would be a massive game changer for me given that I am in a town house with a small garden but lots of height.

@TobotronPrime

5 ай бұрын

So I did it and the reception was excellent, but the transmission wasn't all that great. I then put my BB6W in the loft in a sloppy inverted V and it works a tab better on rx and much better on tx. I was trying out FT8 and no one could hear me on the end fed setup. Switched to the inverted V and plenty of replies. I contacted the person that sold me the end fed, and they told me that I had basically made an rx loop but that they were not clean transmitters. Il keep it in the loft for now but going to fit an end fed along the fence in a STRAIGHT line only and see how that performs.

The problem with this fence top setup is the EMF compliance distance of 1.5m for 100W SSB on 40m (with an assumed 20% duty cycle) which is on the neighbours property! The EFHW doesn't have this drawback!

Great video. If I did that my XYL would said what the hell is that wire for. 😂 Do you really need another antenna 73

Are you transmitting or just receiving using the fence antenna? What’s the SWR for the bands you operate? Thx

What are all the vertical lines on the waterfall ? Great video thanks for posting

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Local electrical noise unfortunately. Doesnt happen all the time so most likely a charger or something.

@johngulliver6151

Жыл бұрын

@@TechMindsOfficial I have the same here.That was why I was asking .Thanks again for replying love your videos always interesting cheers 🍻

Nice! Is that SDRPlay / SDR Console? I haven't seen any antenna controls on the software I'm using, but I only have an RTL, so using SDR# and SDRAngel, sometimes SDR++.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

SDRuno was the software I was using. It will only show antenna ports if the device physically has more than one port.

Sounds good! I thought I heard Callum from DX Commander in there briefly

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Was he? I totally missed him if he was in there.

@bassangler73

Жыл бұрын

@@TechMindsOfficial listen around the 5:52 mark...I'm almost sure that is him

0:00 cool to hear some Dutch in the air 😊🇳🇱

@DandyDon1

Ай бұрын

In the original envelope, I still have cards and radio station info for Radio Netherlands. Shows how old I am! :o)

Sound like signal strength is about the same but the noise level is a bit higher on the fence wire. Otherwise it works great.

What an amazing view from your back garden. Can't you engineer something 'stealthy' using some of that field?!

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

I wish! I've often thought about talking to the farmer that own the field if I can put a pole somewhere so I an have the largest dipole!

@wrongsideof40

Жыл бұрын

@@TechMindsOfficial If it were me, I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to pay the farmer a visit with a bottle of quality malt whiskey peeping out of my coat pocket!

What full size wire antenna would you recommend for fixed 5W QRP?

To measure your garden - measure one fence panel and count the panels! I am currently house hunting and use google earth 3D mode with its compass and scale marker to “sound out” prospective properties before I go there or if there are no panels visible. 73 G4BTI.

@TechMindsOfficial

3 ай бұрын

When we were house hunting I just use the "measurement" tool on google maps! It seemed quite accurate! :-)

It looks like the balun on your other antenna isn't connected properly; there's no path to ground (1:30 mins into the video). This can result in common mode currents on transmit and/or receive. VSWR isn't always an indication that all is well. Give it its own ground or counterpoise and see if the noise goes down on reception. Also, if you're willing to continue experimenting with the two antennas, join them together to form a loop. Here too you may find the receiver noise going down. Yes, it's not a quarter wave up but that's actually a good thing. When I had an 80m loop at a previous location, I routinely worked DX from western Pennsylvania with the loop meandering about no higher than 7 meters up. You can also add a coil(s) along the way to extend the length. I've done/doing these same tricks with good results. Final suggestion: use a remote tuner at the feed point to not include all your coax as the antenna. If the turner is in the shack, everything after it IS the antenna.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

I took the ground off the other antenna to attach to the 9:1 unun for this video. Remember, this video was not actually about an installation I will use, its merely showing whats possible. I do appreciate your comment and pointers though as this will prove useful for others. Thank you.

So how will it work for transmitting?

ZS6BKW -- what would happen if you changed the driven element from a dipole into a closed loop (quad/diamond/rhombic)?

I’m a beginner and trying to quickly gain knowledge I appreciated this post and fascinated by the lapstop software but in reality too much jargon for me I need to learn and I’d like a lesson explaining that laptop software if you can point me to one - thanks 👍🏻

@TechMindsOfficial

8 ай бұрын

I made a video on SDR for beginners quite some time ago, maybe that will answer some of your questions. If not, then let me know and I will gladly make another video :-) Thanks for watching!

Sorry for a basic question but do SDRs usually have built in ATUs? I was thinking of getting an RSPDX.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

You are free to ask what ever question you like :) No, generally SDRs do not have inbuilt ATUs, only transceivers normally have those.

How do you keep the RF energy from burning the wood, especially after a rain?

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Havnt tried it, but I guess I would get the marsh mellows out. My EFHW runs up a telescopic pole in the middle of a tree, I often use 100 Watts and so far, there has been no tree fire or fried squirrels. :-)

Is there any difference between a vertical and horizontal antenna? I remember there use to be much less noise in horizontal mode, but these days it may not be true anymore.

@TechMindsOfficial

29 күн бұрын

Depends on frequency tbh. Also a long topic to explain fully why.

But how well does it get out on transmit? Swr won't indicate that. A dummy load has a great swr. Good receive doesn't indicate good transmit either since it might come about due to the low wire antenna picking up less local noise.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Transmit will vary for each individual, due to surroundings, fence height, material and un-un used etc. which is why I didn’t really cover that in the video. It’s a cheap antenna to make, so give it a try and let us know how you get on :) thanks for watching.

I wish it would be this easy. We have EMC; therefore, can you explain how to solve the exposition of both third parties to RF?

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Not really, that's for whoever wants to install such an antenna and if they want to transmit. Outside the scope of this video and not relevant to everyone watching.

Pardon the question, what software are you using?

@M-P-X

Жыл бұрын

SDRuno

@mariorossi1633

Жыл бұрын

@@M-P-X thank you!

Wouldn't 41m be approximately a half wave on 80m and therefore a 49:1 transformer would be better? Maybe you could try it and see what the plot looks like again from 80m up to 10m.

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

That’s very true, in fact I could of just removed the wire from the 9:1 and attached it to the 49:1 that was sat next to it. However this test was to compare the 49:1 to the 9:1 fence antenna. I might try this personally, to see how well it performs in real life. Thanks.

@paulsengupta971

Жыл бұрын

@@TechMindsOfficial Thinking about it, 41m might be a little long, so maybe fold back the end a couple of metres.

Hi. I have done something similar..I live backing on to an old railway track that's been converted to a footpath. I just ran out a wire and stapled it onto the top rail. It's now at about 141 feet long in a straight line. Works well from 80 to 10m. Just using a 9:1 with a single earth rod. I was pre drilling a hole with a 1m sds drill bit and got it stuck, that's now the earth rod😅😂

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Thats awesome! That would make a good video! Cheers

Washing line. Dual use then? :D

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Yep, I keep telling my misses to use the EFHW but the lazy wench wont climb up a ladder! lol

@paulsengupta971

Жыл бұрын

When I first thought of installing a HF antenna I bought some wire cored washing line to put up and use as a stealth antenna/washing line. However I decided to put it up in my attic instead as a 20m inverted V!

I put a end-fed 80-10 along the top edge of a 6 foot fence. While I get about 1.5:1 S-W-R on 20 meters, I have only received stations within about 17 miles, Pretty disappointing. A ham was listening in Montana (680 miles), they heard nothing but static.

LOL no Antennas on show get rid of partner good video

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

and neighbours! then the world is your "antenna farm". :-) Cheers

Could anyone shed some light on the signal running across the band at 5:29 from left to right? Here in ɐᴉlɐɹʇsn∀, I get those too and they are usually accompanied by a 'whip sound'.

@HAL9000__

Жыл бұрын

It's a sweep from an ionosonde aka chirpsounder radar for examining the ionosphere .The transmitter sweeps all or part of the HF frequency range. The ionosonde emits radio waves of varying frequencies towards the ionosphere and then receives the reflected signals. By analyzing the characteristics of the reflected waves, such as their amplitude, frequency, and time of arrival, the ionosonde can determine important parameters of the ionosphere, including electron density, altitude profiles, and the presence of ionospheric disturbances. This information is crucial for understanding radio wave propagation, ionospheric behavior, and its impact on communication and navigation systems.

@totalrecone

Жыл бұрын

@@HAL9000__ Thanks for that HAL. It's very much appreciated.

One of the first rules of HF is get the antenna high enough so nobody can touch it and get an RF burn.

What is Antenna B

@TechMindsOfficial

6 ай бұрын

EFHW with 49:1

Over the years I've heard of people using the PVC pipes in multistory building dropping or flushing wire down the pipes and using the plumbing as a ground plane But true or urban myth I can't say But it would make an inverted vertical I guess And yes asked on another site and got all the shitty signal jokes 😉

Hmm, going to have to disagree. The EFHW looks miles better with far superior SNR, there's quite a few dB in it looking at the plots too. A loop antenna would probably be a better compromise

41 meters of wire, sounds like an HF antenna or full wave ground wire.

This is cool but shouldn’t be used if you have neighbours along your fence line

@PE3FS

Жыл бұрын

Why?

@paulsengupta971

Жыл бұрын

@@PE3FS I'm guessing RF exposure.

@PE3FS

Жыл бұрын

@@paulsengupta971 radio amateurs are doomed

@paulsengupta971

Жыл бұрын

@@PE3FS I have an antenna directly above my bedroom so especially so for me...

So sorry to see what’s happening here. Love to channel and the content, but very worried to see hoovie like this. Try and look after yourself

@TechMindsOfficial

Жыл бұрын

No idea what you are worried about sir.

@paulsengupta971

Жыл бұрын

Hoovie? As in Hoovie's garage?