Alan Moore brought me here ! 😂

@taehametariq9120

5 жыл бұрын

Lmfao same

4 жыл бұрын

"I'm not trying to slag someone who is an old man....BUT..." lmfao

@pitbullnay

4 жыл бұрын

Yep me too. Cheers Alan

@alexheffner1780

4 жыл бұрын

Same. "Look, we're in a bit of a hurry...or perhaps he said 'huwwy', I don't know." 😂😂Alan Moore's great but he can really be a dick lmao.

@thesecretcompartment

4 ай бұрын

Same!

Ironic that these guys made comics about heroes fighting against injustice for justice, yet behind the scenes there was no justice whatsoever.

@toyhunter2903

5 жыл бұрын

Lol 😂

@Kriskazam

4 жыл бұрын

Alan Moore said something perfectly about this in a conference, superhero writers get into the business as coward compensators

@Luizanimado

Жыл бұрын

@@Kriskazam Alan Moore also said a lie, or at least said something incorrect about Stan Lee in a conference, so, I don't think Alan Moore is a guy you can trust

@supermarvelboy1

Жыл бұрын

@@Luizanimado What lie?

@Luizanimado

Жыл бұрын

@@supermarvelboy1 he said that Stan Lee claimed to be the creator of Captain America in the Origins of Marvel book, but Stan Lee never said that

why say "in my opnion Steve Ditko co-created Spider-Man" or "If Steve Ditko wants to believe he co-created then thats fine by me" Why is it so hard to say "Steve Ditko co-created Spider-Man"? Thats a lot simpler and contains far fewer words doesn't it? Well it would also be a legally binding statement.

Objectively speaking, Stan Lee definitely isn't a villain, but he's no hero either. He could claim that inception makes him the creator all he wanted, but chances are that out of the three, he probably had the least amount to do with Spider-Man's creation. In fact, there are reports that the hero was of Jack Kirby's inception. Perhaps without Kirby, Spider-Man wouldn't even be a Spider-hero.

@rickrivers2021

2 жыл бұрын

Tbh, I'm somewhat skeptical of Kirby's assertion there. The problem with all three of these guys is what they mean when they say 'creator'. Kirby's design for Spider-Man was dropped. The only thing I've seen about his influence on the character himself was that Peter should live with an elderly couple. Lee with Kirby would have had very little resemblance to Lee with Ditko.

@balladcodename7874

2 жыл бұрын

Ditko co-created Spidey. Kirby had no influence whatsoever.

Stan Lee came up with the idea of an average teenage superhero with spider powers. Jack Kirby came up with the name Spiderman (later changed to Spider-Man as Marvel loves their hyphenates) and the science-geek living with the aunt and uncle bit. Steve Ditko came up with the iconic costume and the wrist-mounted web shooters. Now, given that Stan Lee notoriously didn't give his artists full (or even sometimes any) scripts, those artists often had to do a lot of the story plotting themselves during their illustrating (the infamous "marvel method"). Meaning that a lot of the plot for the original Spider-Man appearance was likely created by Steve Ditko while the dialogue was filled in by Stan Lee. Now reading that, who deserves credit for coming up with the character? Stan Lee might think that it being his initial idea means it's his creation, but an idea means nothing without the ability to bring it to fruition. Stan Lee came up with the initial Idea, Jack Kirby came up with the name and background, and Steve Ditko came up with the iconic look and (probably) the story. Stan couldn't have created the character without those other two, and they couldn't have without him. I would say all three contributed to the character as a whole and thus all three deserve credit.

True, but Steve created Spiderman's original look and is responsible for his iconic costume. No other artist who worked on Spiderman can say that. They're both co-creators to me.

CONSIDER? No Stan, he IS the co-creator.

Stan Lee didn't even create the concept. Stan took the concept from a previous work that Joe Simon and Jack Kirby had done and gave it to Ditko. Ditko then recreated the concept from the ground up. If you say Kirby created Thor then Ditko most definitely created Spiderman, because Kirby's Thor has more to do with the norse god of myth than Spiderman has to do with It's initial concept outside of Ditko.

@ronaldmorgan4734

6 жыл бұрын

Stephen Gomez kirby got rid of spider's genie

@AlexDragonfire96

5 жыл бұрын

> actually believing in some kirby bullshit

@DanteAlighieri612

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlexDragonfire96 then you believe in stan lee's bullshit. Funny dude

@Luizanimado

Жыл бұрын

What you saing is not correct, what Joe Simon said, is that in the 50s, he and Jack Kirby created a charact, and one of the names they thought about it, was Spider Man, but in the end the named Silver Spider, then later, Stan Lee had the Idea for Spider Man, and then he show for his publisher, and later Jack Kirby, and after that Joe Simon said something like that "oh, we had the Idea for a character called spider man in the 50s", but he was NOT saying that Stan Lee slole the idea, he was just pointing a coincidence.

Stan seems to believe that creation is the inception of an idea while Steve Ditko and Jonathan Ross believe that a creation is the final product. I agree with Ditko and Ross, but I don't think that makes Stan a liar or a thief. He is clearly willing to give Ditko the credit he deserves.

@hectormiller8883

8 жыл бұрын

+MemphoWrasslin1 ITS THE TRUTH AND YOUR ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

@hectormiller8883

8 жыл бұрын

+James Alexander Knighton STAN TELLS SOMEONE ABOUT SOMEONE ELSES IDEA (JACK KIRBYS SPIDER GUY HORROR COMIC) THEN TELLS sTERVE ABOUT IT, THEN STEVE COMES UP WITH HIS SPIDER-MAN (NOT LEES 50S REFERENCE FROM JACKS WORK , SPIDER GUY.... ANOTHER THING, STEVE CAME UP WITH THE WHOLE INCEPTIONAL IDEA,... aRE YOU FIGURING THIS OUT

Stan lee will never consider Ditko to be a true creator because he believes the concept alone made it an 80/ 20 partnership. If it wasnt for the iconic illustration and other traits, spiderman could have easily been a failure.

@hectormiller8883

8 жыл бұрын

+kralalrulz BUT THE IDEA CAME FROM DITKO, IF THIS IS WRONG WHY DIDNT HE WRITE THE FIRST 38 ISSUES? LOOK AND SEARCH FOR WHAT IS TRUE.. YOURS AND MY OPINION ARE WORTHLESS... IF WE DID THE SAME THING TO YOUR SON, YOUR STORY WOULD THEN CHANGE.. OH BUT WHY, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS RELATIVE TO YOU ... THAT IS WHAT THE MAKINGS OF A THIEF ARE

@SirBlackReeds

5 жыл бұрын

So Dr. Strange is an exception?

@Gamer-lq4wl

5 жыл бұрын

Did you know that Doctor Strange was Steve Ditko idea? Even Stan "The Scum" Lee confirmed that.

Well to be fair, Steve Ditko had the idea of Doctor Strange. Steve should have sent a letter to Stan Lee "considering" him the co-creator of Doctor Strange. 😂😂😂😂😂

Jonathan's unique diction has me doubled over laughing. The fact that he has done so well in broadcasting shows he must be working harder than everyone else.

Stan may have come up with the idea of spiderman as for his looks and powers, but didn't steve came up with his story, personality etc? So yeah he deserves credit as the co creator

@lyndoncmp5751

11 ай бұрын

Stan was naturally quick witted and wisecracking.... just like Spider-Man.

@mikethaison432

8 ай бұрын

@@lyndoncmp5751 No he wasn't. He was just extremely accepting of his own inferior ability and used this envy to justify leeching off of greater minds as some sort of leveling the playing field.

RIP Ditko

Some of you are thinking we are too harsh on mr.lee a person who changed his name because he didn't want anyone to know he wrote comics. Well from a person who worked on comics,credt is all you have ,also mr.lee recieved all the wealth as well. Mr.lee knew if he gave credit to anyone else he would lose money,you can see that he would not admit anything even though he admited that diko would do all the work. KIRBY,DIKO,SIMON, FOREVER!!!!!! THE TRUE CREATORS

@MultiMurder I agree Ditko was criminally overlooked considering the fact that the credits on issues 32-38 of The Amazing Spider-Man read "Written And Edited By Stan Lee" "Plotted And Drawn By Steve Ditko" to have Ditko's role overlooked is about like saying Jack Kirby had no hand in plotting The Fantastic Four.

Stan Lee: Concept, origin, original stories/fleshing out creation. Steve Ditko: Design and later story creator. The thing here with Stan is that he seems GENUILY sorry that he thinks the way he does. I am convinced here that he's not trying to bash Ditko, but rather seems either soaked up in the attention or just a bit ignorant of his feelings. He's not ignorant in the fact that he diesn't want Ditko to recieve credit. Only a war of two sides are here, and opinions just conflict.

There is a "concept" creator, and "co-creator (s)" Without the concept, which is really the most important part, what do you have? Without a co-creator, who can truly bring out the real quality of the character, what do you have?

Be honest. When Stan Lee speaks, do you hear someone who has the natural ability to supply the wit, humor and character of Peter Parker? From what little we know of Ditko, I imagine the Question not Peter Parker. However, I can definitely see how Ditko’s perception of the world created conflict with Lee’s perception. With that odd conflict from two inctedible talents, you end up with a classic popular character. Neither one would have been able to create the Spider-Man universe on their own as we have known it.

@mikethaison432

8 ай бұрын

Peter Parker would still exist without Stan Lee, but Spiderman wouldn't. Suggesting what his suit should look like and what his powers should be is creative for a kindergartener who is suggesting ideas to his friend on the playground, but it is not the creative genius required to confidently say you are the creator of a character. Who knows what other form of ____ man we would have gotten but what makes spider man a good story isn't his powers.

I think the person who has the idea created it, but the person who brought the idea to life can also be called the co creator.

They came up with the name Spiderman, his backstory and that he had webshooters (back then they were in a pistol). Marvin Goodman told Stan Lee to do something with the idea, he came up with the alter ego name Peter Parker and gave the outline to Steve Dikto that did the rest - creating the Spider-Man universe as we still know it today as well as its successful formula. Stan Lee doesn't deserve to be called creator or co-creator. He simply did his job as an editor in chief.

@abnertejeira186

Жыл бұрын

And that initial idea was Kirby's...

@gavinoconnorclarke5270

Жыл бұрын

​​@@abnertejeira186xactly! In fact, after reading and researching the case of Kirby Vs Lee, Jack Kirby wrote, drew and created the characters. All Stan Lee did was edit the plots and rewrite Kirby's dialogue.

I’ve been researching the beginning of the Marvel universe for months and this just confirmed to me that Stan Lee isn’t the person we all know and love. He’s an overglorified dialogue writing. Read the early FF and you’ll see his dialogue doesn’t even make sense with Kirby’s art!

@Gamer-lq4wl

5 жыл бұрын

Nuff Said 😉👍

ditko created the look of the character which is a huge part of it because its a freaking comic book haha i believe if spidey had a crappy look the character may have failed.

@hectormiller8883

8 жыл бұрын

+Dan Harvey HE CAME UP WITH THE WHOLE STORY , BACKGROUND OPF THE CHARACTER AND EVERY ONE IN THE COMIC CAME OUT OF dITKOS HEAD. bITTEN BY A RADIOACTIVE SPIDER...ETC... IT CAME FROM THE HANDS OF DITKO..............SPIDR-MAN WOULD HAVE BEEN A HIT WITH OR WITHOUT STAN. BUT SPIDER-MAN WOULD NEVER HAVE MATERIALIZED IF DITKO HAD NO PART OF IT... STEVE DITKO IS IN FACT THE SOLE CREATOR OF SPIDER-MAN

@crimzoda6624

5 жыл бұрын

@@hectormiller8883 fair enough but cmon it's Stan Lee how can you not like him he just such a nice guy

@crimzoda6624

4 жыл бұрын

@svin damn

@DanteAlighieri612

3 жыл бұрын

@@crimzoda6624 nah, bruh that old man was a hoodlum. Treachery at it's finest.

@cicolasnage5684

Жыл бұрын

@@crimzoda6624Ted bundy was a nice guy but it does t necessarily make him a good person. Just because Lee comes across as a kooky gramps it’s just his rude. Stan lee screwed over slot of creators.

in a story driven medium the idea is king.the architect is the genius behind a building that is considered a masterpeice and not the builders.

In my opinion, and that's all it is (an OPINION), I see it that the concept of Spider-Man, the idea, was that of Stan Lee's. Then Steve Ditko made the design. They each had a part in the creation of Spider-Man. I'm not going to say who I think deserved the lion's share of the credit, but both men are responsible for one of the most recognizable characters of the modern world. I say we leave it at that. No matter how much we dwell on this dispute, it will not change anything.

I love Stan Lee's voice! If I could trade voices with anyone, it would be him.

@mikethaison432

8 ай бұрын

It sure is easy to lie and steal with charisma.

To be honest if you watch the whole doc they show that Steve wrote many of the Spiderman storys himself without much imput from Stan Lee, also Steve created the look of spiderman, which to be fair is the most identifiable aspect of Spiderman, so yeah I'd say he was the co creator.

I don't know about you, but in everything I've seen it credits Spider-Man as being created by "Stan Lee and Steve Ditko"

@gilraybaker826

3 жыл бұрын

Read a book by Mr Stan Lee called "Origins of Marvel Comics."

@marcwarren8110

3 жыл бұрын

You can see in the video that isn't the case

Im a comic book artist ( not professional yet) and what I say is that the writer is the creator of the book and the artist is the co creator. Stan lee thought of the idea BUT Steve brought it to life.

Except that the look, personality, and plot lines of Spider-Man were created by Steve Ditko. Stan Lee said "make me a character with the powers of a spider." Ditko then did the rest, with Lee scripting dialog into plots and pages of art that Ditko created independently. In a fair world, where Stan Lee didn't have a family connect at Marvel that kept him from being screwed like Kirby and Ditko, it would be generous of Ditko to call Stan a co-creator, not the other way around.

(Another long afterwards but...) Peter was actually only in college for 12 years (Amazing 31-185) before moving onto graduate school for a few years, dropping out for a few more, then briefly going back. For a number of years in the 1970s it was a hotly debated question as to whether he should graduate or not.

@MultiMurder I'm pretty much agreeing with you. To me the fact that Ditko and Kirby were involved in plotting the books that they worked on is overlooked all too often, and I feel at the very least that they deserve some recognition for the fact that each man was just as responsible in their own way for building up Marvel as Stan was.

For the record, the reason Stan stopped talking to Steve about the plot because they werent talking at all. They never directly spoke to each other during Steve's last years at Marvel.

But Jack Kirby and Joe Simon created the idea of a Spider-Man in the 50's. So Stan's contribution to the character was from them.

Stan had the concept .Steve fleshed out the characters.maybe after stan made the concept Steve did most of the creative input apart from plot changes and speech alterations but I'm not to sure.

Lee and Kane were sharky thieves, but at least Kane was depression era. You can understand his desperation to make some cash. How Lee sleeps at night is beyond me.

@hectormiller8883

8 жыл бұрын

+Casper Jean Rimbaud At least you can see what is true.. Good for you for recognizing what is absolute....

@daniverse9625

8 жыл бұрын

+Casper Jean Rimbaud At least Steve Ditko has been credited for co-creator the Spider-Man outside of the comics. Took Finger until last year to finally get credited.

@CSPlayerDamon

7 жыл бұрын

Probably like any 93 year old who tries to make it another day.

Both of them are creators of Spider-man. Of course, an idea is just an idea if it can not be turned into a product. But, a product can not be formed without based on the idea. In this case, the idea inspires the production, while the product realizes the idea.

Any artist could have inked Stan's idea. Ditko was the ARTIST, Stan the Creator who CREATED spider-man in his mind. While Ditko did alot for spidey, he simply didn't create him.

right on!

i gotta agree with stan the man fair enough the other guy helped make spiderman super successful with his drawings BUT, stan did think of the idea witch means he created it.

@toyhunter2903

5 жыл бұрын

Research about the "Marvel Method". Stan Lee did not work with full scripts.

@dio6856

3 жыл бұрын

Lee never worked with Full scripts. He's always had guys like Kirby and Ditko to help him

Thanks man! Wheres the rest?

I agree with you Stan.

Both sides have more than valid points, personally I believe the person that thought and imagined the idea of something is the creator, however a strong part of creating something relies on bringing it to life. Very strong argument.

@DeepSouthWrestling1 no Stan Lee came up with the initial idea of doing Spider-Man when he saw a fly on the ceiling and thought he would create a hero who could stick to walls and it developed from there

I think Stan considered being a figurehead was for Marvel's own good.. he had a good image, and comics suffer when they have a bad image.. Ditko..was not the kinda guy you'd wanna talk to in an interview. He was a mad creative genius. Plus in Stan's day, people often didn't get good credit, so he knew it wasn't the end of the world.

.R.I.P. Stan lee 😭

How I see it: Stan Lee came up with the initial ideas for Spider-Man. Steve Ditko brought those ideas to life by designing Stan's ideas in his image.

@AtenAkaAton1

10 жыл бұрын

Jack Kirby came up with the initial idea for Spiderman and Ditko created not just Spidermans look but most of his early stories and villians.

@grestoable

10 жыл бұрын

AtenAkaAton1 Yeah but it's not just the look of Spider-Man that's made him so great. His alter ego, Peter Park, the death of his Uncle, his life as outcasted geek who learns right from wrong...his mythos has also stuck around with us since then and Stan Lee created that. Spiderman's had so many costumes, designs, and villains but his mythos is what sets Spider-Man apart from any other red and blue costumed superhero. Stan didn't really think he created Spidey, but he didn't let his opinion stop him from giving him the credit he asked for, he was entitled to his opinion.

@NDMac

10 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Stan Lee just simply sticks with what he believes is true. He thinks he deserves to be credited as a co-creator of Spider-Man because he came up with the idea. He never lied or deceived anyone into believing he was the sole creator. He has always known and given credit to those who created the artwork and stories. It was Ditko who made Spiderman successful but none of that would have happened without Stan's vision. I understand where he's coming from.

@grunt-sw8si

5 жыл бұрын

He lied in the sense that it was Kirby initially and not Lee...and Lee doesn't give proper credit to Ditko...

@Noname-ut1ye

5 жыл бұрын

A 1954 halloween costume did it first.

If Stan was the one with the idea and was the one who wrote the line "with great power..." He is the creator. But i believe that the artist who design how the character will look and move is also a creator. And in this case the artist also wrote so he deserves more recognition and be the co-creator. But i understand Stan Lee point of view too.

This is very embarrassing. Whatever happened back then, maybe we will never know, but Stan Lee is really nervous and unsure of himself in this interview.

@batman4452

6 жыл бұрын

Stan Lee is a lying, back stabbing, stealing piece of shit, that puts himself in every marvel movie, meanwhile Steve Ditko, and Jack Kirby are the real Marvel creators. Spiderman would be nothing without Steve Ditko, HE created it, brought it to life.. Stan didn't, any other artist, story teller might not have done it as well.. that idea sounds like shit, until you look what Steve did with it. It's iconic, from steve.. Stan just thought of it like "what if a teen is like a spider?" Peter could have easily had 8 hairy arms... Steve brought it to life, and is the reason everyone LOVES Spiderman... and this fuckin old bastard can't admit Steve IS the co-creator? I think Steve is the creator period.. but Stan says I consider? And thinks he created Spiderman? Sorry Stan. You fuckin asshole... Not surprised about these sexual allegations coming out in the past couple weeks, you fuckin disgusting perv... hope i can tell him to his face before he dies.

@KV-cq2wf

6 жыл бұрын

he's uncomfortabke because his lawyer was stuck in traffic and couldn't be by his side during the interview

@heatblaze123

4 жыл бұрын

​@@batman4452 You're a moron. Spider-Man could have easily never existed without Stan Lee. He created the concept, the character's origin, and most of the stories throughout the run early. Steve's role should not be minimized because the character could have failed without him, but to act like Stan deserves no credit is bloody stupid. Also those sexual assault claims were lies. Get your facts straight.

@batman4452

4 жыл бұрын

It's clear he's lying.. He was a scumbag.

i never knew this was a controversial thing but no matter how i look at it i think stan lee's right, he did create spiderman, he gave the instructions and steve carried out the orders. they deserve credit for MAKING spiderman and lee deserves credit for CREATING spiderman. he does his best to try and keep everyone happy, but he's unfortunatley pushed into saying it howw it is and it makes him look like the bad guy :(

I'll agree with that. That's a much better perspective to have than "Stan's fake! He's not the creator, blah blah blah," or "Stan rulz! He's right 'cause all I've ever known is Stan; therefore, he's right." In all fairness, they both get the credit, but Stan is technically the creator.

One person doing both the art and the story. That's what EC did, with artist bios printed with the issue.

I am aware of the Marvel method, but it was always Lee scripting the dialogue, which gave him a certain amount of direction and control. He also had the power to change anything he didn't like, which he apparently did often enough to upset Kirby & Ditko. Besides, it was Ditko's fault he ran out of steam and creativity. His departure gave the appearance he had nothing more left to give. Mabey the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long. Were those villians Lee's or Ditko's creation?

@227060 which then boosted his position as a villain since all the crap Pete went thru in the Saga was basically HIS fault, he'd caused Peter to doubt his very identity as a person...THEN he kidnapped/killed his baby moments after she was born, killed Pete's clone who really had bcom like Pete's brother the ONLY other person in the world who completly and genuinly understood him, he took over the Bugle, put a bount on Spidey' s head, falunted his popularity in front of Peter, framed him

Blake didn't do the original illustrations on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (that was Joseph Schindelman). Books are somewhat different as traditionally an author churns out a manuscript & then the illustrator gets going, whereas comics often see writers & artists in some form of collaboration from the outset. I'm reminded of Jack Kirby's biographer saying that Kirby doing the pencilling is about the one clear point in who did what on the Lee-Kirby collaborations.

For 40 years Stan Lee has been criticized HOWEVER comics are a double-edged medium, needing strength in both art and story in order to endure. Writing consistently readable captions for over a decade and making it look deceptively easy was a knack Stan had a gift for. And he's the one who originated CONTINUITY in comics, something seldom mentioned among his array of talents. Many scripters made themselves look foolish (in Stan's wake) trying to imitate his compelling dialogue (for the time period). AND just creating a superhero isn't enough---superheroes require casts of thousands: family, friends, co-workers, allies, lovers and, most important, bad guys. Every superhero needs an ever-changing multitude of villains to engage month after month, i.e. Spidey is much more interesting with Doc Ock in the frame with him than not. Stan created the ensemble cast's continuous conflicts and artist extraordinaire Steve Ditko drew pictures so mind-boggling they visually upstaged the story. Did Ditko write some storylines? Sure he did---but not near as many as underdog Stan. He's also being more-than-reasonable in this interview and poking some acerbic fun at himself. After all these years Stan is entitled to the credit he deserves. And a lot more respect.

@mikethaison432

8 ай бұрын

O Bohoo, you really trying to make Stan Lee out to be the victim when he was one of the sole reasons Steve Ditko was blacklisted from comic books and had his work stolen from him. Let me just lay out my red carpet of sympathy and compassion for the megalomaniac who got to live a lavish life off the leeching of others. I'm so sad to hear he had to deal with a tiny bit of criticism for literally destroying the lives of so many others who worked with him.

@iWaterMark I thought Mr. Ditko said he wanted to be recognized as "Co-Creator" of Spidey unless I've misread this video by a long shot.

Without Stan Lee, SteveDitko would have had just drawings.

drop the "i think" and the "i consider" give the man full credit, you can see regret and the pauses he had indicate that he's trying his best not to give credit or do just by the writer, the way he behaved here showed me how in denial and unjust they are to give him credit, that now i believe Steve Ditko IS the creator of spiderman.

@DeepSouthWrestling1 As much as Ditko had an influence plotting much of the storyline, it was always Lee taking the strip in whatever direction he wanted with his diaologue. This gave Lee quite a bit of control & the final say on it's direction. It was still Lee scripting and laying out the general plot before and after Ditko left. So it is not entirely true to say the book took a left turn after Ditko left. The formula still worked quite well. There was the Shocker, The Kingpin, some more..

I wish the whole documentary was available.

@cicolasnage5684

Жыл бұрын

It is dummy.

@DeepSouthWrestling1 Ditko wanted more than that. He wanted at least half the credit(if not more) as a co-creator of Spider-Man. Stan Lee was initially reluctant for years to share the credit. By the time Lee gave in to the idea of sharing credit the damage was already done. Ditko was a fool for leaving Spider-Man when it was already their second highest selling book. Once Romita took over, the book became even more popular and became No. one. They never even missed Ditko because of Romita.

I think Stan lee is confused or just obsessed with himself. He may have had the original idea or version in his head but which is the one the world accepts today and who contributed the most to this current popular version because the two are not the same.

cool guy

@DeepSouthWrestling1 Oddly enough, even though it was just plain stupid for Ditko to abandon Spidey, it was actually more of a blessing in disguise. Ditko had already done his amazing work and had already laid the groundwork of a well oiled machine. What Ditko never counted on was he that he was shockingly replaceable and even expendable. The book never skipped a beat once he left. Romita's new version of Parker and Spidey was an instant success, another testament to Lee's marketing savvy.

@lyndoncmp5751

11 ай бұрын

Yes. Best thing to happen was Ditko going and Romita joining. It went from strength to strength as a three dimensional comic book with more impressive artwork.

Really, they're both right. While they should be credited as co-creators, the idea is, for all intents and purposes, the creation. I'd say that Stan is the creator, and Steve the co-creator. Or rather, Stan created Spider-Man, and Steve designed him. That might be a better way to put it. Design is part of the product, yeah, but it wouldn't exist to be designed in the first place, if it hadn't been created by Stan. That's my take on it. Doesn't mean Stan's fake. Just different viewpoints.

The Joe Simon/Jack Kirby drawing of the character from the 50's. He didn't look anything like he does now - his current design was all Steve Ditko.

Simon: (looking puzzled and annoyed) "So you're going to be changing your name from Stanley Lieber to Stan-Lee?" Stan: (smiling looking happily) "That's right Joe!" Simon: "Is that going to be your first name or your last name?" Stan: "Whatever you think sounds best Joe!" Simon: "I think it sounds Chinese."

Well there's a funny bit in the comicbook series 'Comicbook Philosphers' which takes a hilarious look at the history of comics in general that takes place back in the 1940s in which a young Stan Lieber is talking to Timely (Marvel) Comics artist and co-creator of Captain America Joe Simon.

Well it's put out by the same creative team that did both series, one covering philosophers of history, and the other comicbook creators, but you may be right about the name.

I hate to see/hear people bad mouthing Stan Lee, I don't think I've seen him say he created everything and it was all his work etc, I just think to a lot of people he's seen as the face of Marvel so people just assume. I just wish people would give the poor guy a break.

@RavenLand "To sum up: They are both right and both wrong. But Steve's the douche by saying the letter of approval wasn't good enough." I agree with that last statement. Mr. Ditko should've gave Mr. Lee credit for making an effort to give him credit in public. Mr. Ditko should've taken his last paycheck for Marvel before he abruptly decided to leave the company. He could've used that money to invest his own independent comic business or something like that but he didn't and that's illogical.

Two people can contribute to create something. And after that, neither one can claim to be the sole creator. What's so hard to understand about that?? Ditko didn't just draw Spider-man. Stan Lee would give a brief synopsis, Ditko would develop it visually (and make up stuff), Stan would get back and write dialog on top. They were throwing it back and forth, it's a TEAM work. Denying that is simply unfair, no matter whose side you're on.

its 50/50 for me on this. Sure he came up with the idea....but if i tell someone people to build me a time machine with a car and a few other things....if they build it and it works, do i deserve all the credit for it since it was my idea? I just wish he would give credit to his people. From this video....you can tell he doesn't believe anyone should get credit for creating Spider-man but him. Kirby idea of Spider-man was shot down by Stan. Ditko created the costume, web shoots, Stan let him come up with the plots for Spider-man after a while (which Stan says in this video. It would make sense since he would also be writing for other comics.)

@Novaargh

6 жыл бұрын

stanley came up with a name... Just a name... that's it. He also said he created captain america.. don't know about you, but this guy is full of it.. to late to actually help the people he's harmed, but it is possible to let the world know who were actually responsible for the stories and characters, which were Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko.. you think lieber could've came up with half that stuff you are kidding yourself. he's a liar, cheat and a con man. one thing he was great at, and still is, is sweettalk his was in and out of stuff with that silver tongue.. Kirby and Ditko saw right through his facade. As do i. Steve Ditko CREATED Spider-Man.

It is very rare for any comic book creator to maintain relevance past 15 years, and that includes just about anyone in the business. I know Jack Kirby introduced his fourth world at DC, and it was a great accomplishment - but that's rare for an artist. Stan Lee took a job in management, and I'm sure that slowed his output some, but I don't know of a single writer/artist active in the Golden age/Silver age to do remarkable work in the 1980s.

I know we're Steve ditko lives

I don't think Stan could have been any clearer here. Alan Moore paints a very negative picture of him, and I don't know all the details, but I do know people and I know that feelings can get bruised. As a writer and developer myself, I have to agree with Stan here - the person who initially conceives of an idea is generally considered to be that ideas "creator". How many people have drawn Spider-Man over the years? Yet without Stan, the character would not have existed. His point is valid.

@ElCampisaurus

5 жыл бұрын

I totally agree with that, but that's not the point.

@toyhunter2903

5 жыл бұрын

Stan Lee did not work with full scripts. He just had some vague ideas. Did you know that Steve Ditko came with the idea of the web shooters? Did you know that Jack Kirby came with the idea of Peter living with his uncles? Do you know what Brainstorming is? Everybody contributed with the early concepts of Spider-Man. Did you know that Kirby drew the very first COVER artwork of Spider-Man? I mean Amazing Fantasy #15. Steve Ditko did the interior artwork in that comic and Stan Lee edited the dialogs and put the captions. Jack Kirby is the 3rd uncredited creator of Spider-Man.

@acthoundentertainment

5 жыл бұрын

@@JamesSmith-yq5jq That ain't it, because stan's idea of a car would be to tell steve and kirby a vague damn description of a car. Not a blueprint by any stretch of the imagination and leave it for them to use their creativity and their ability to form it into something people can use, at that point they're more creators than stan is in any measure.

Stan Lee was playing with words on purpose. There's a big difference in saying "I consider him to be the co-creator..." and "He is the co-creator...". He would never say the latter, even though he's the only one who could, because it would mean legal trouble for everyone.

@DeepSouthWrestling1 Ditko wanted Parker to stay in High School forever, which was pretty unrealistic. Lee wanted him to transform into more of a confident young man, especially since he was always fighting dangerous grown men anyway. Parker could gain more respectabilty this way, instead of always remaining a punk high school kid. I felt the strip continued to grow quite nicely with Romita, who was the Norman Rockwell of Spider-Man covers. Lee was still the scripter when the two switched

And your just a Lee lover for no reason. Lee had say in changes because that's what an editor does. Stan Lee was one of the best editors of all time - but that is all he ever was. He wasn't a creator or a writer but an editor. Kirby and Simon also created a character called the Spider Man that had a web gun. It was an assignment owned by Marvel/Timely Comics and Lee gave it to Ditko who created the entire universe. This doc doesn't tell the whole story.

Stan lee is a great man ! Kirby was a great man ! Let it go !

@227060 unlike Venom or Harry or other characetrs who knew Peter's ID, Osborn REALLY took it to the next level in ruining Peter's life. b4 he came back his claim 2 fame was he was the 1st guy 2 learn Peter's ID, his son was Peter's best friend, his true identity was a mystery at 1 time, his son took up his mantle, he (effectivly) killed Gwen. now of all of those the only things which really gave him the disitinction of Spidey's #1 villain was Gwen and his knowing Pete's ID

@DeepSouthWrestling1 It was difficult to argue with Lee's great marketing skills. He was a master at it. Lee was also the boss, not Ditko, something that Ditko could never come to grips with. I agree that Ditko had a huge influence in Spidey's creation and direction, but I wouldn't say the innovation stopped after he left. Remember Lee's dialogue had a great deal to do with Spidey's direction, especially considering he often gave Ditko the general direction that he wanted the strip to go.

Kirbys idea was to dust of a character he pitched in the 50s The Silver Spider that was rejected and basically make a Captain America with cobwebs out of it. It was rejected. Ditko then got the job. Joe Simon though did steal it to make The Fly over at Charlton some time later.

The artist always gets the shaft from the suits!

@DeepSouthWrestling1 I understand and yes I do want them ti expand their horizons, but as I have said I do not want the superhero genre itself to disappear

It was Stan Just check some of Ditko's later DC and Charlton stuff. You can see that their writing is really different. Stan wrote most of the dialogue in the earlier Marvel comics, at least that's for sure!

@RBorouma

3 жыл бұрын

Dialogue sure, but the story and characters are debatable.

@DeepSouthWrestling1 According to Romita in one of the different interviews on KZread here, It was Lee who wanted Parker to move on to college. Matter of fact, it was described as one of the sticking points why Ditko left. I am almost sure of it. I will look for it again to make sure. I cant imagine why you would think that Romita ran the strip straight into the ground. Exactly what new innovative direction would Ditko have taken it? Mabey the reason Ditko left was he was running out of ideas

@DeepSouthWrestling1 Yes he might, but that doesn't give reason for people which hate him for creating Spiderman! I meannn Ditko did give his insights of the costume and image. But the idea was from Stan and not only that but many other Marvel characters.

@USMartyrMachine119 I can't believe I have to explain to anyone of my generation who Stan Lee is, but our trip to Comikaze yesterday tells me I do!

Stan didn't actually write a lot of that dialog, Steve did :P

@RBorouma

3 жыл бұрын

"No, Stan wrote most of the dialog, but Steve wrote most of the story and characters." Never mind. It seems you're right.

@MrMarsFargo

3 жыл бұрын

@@RBorouma No, what you just said is verifiably wrong; Lee would receive the original drawings with the speech boxes already drawn. To the side, notes regarding what they were saying were written by Ditko in very specific detail. Lee then slightly modified these notes; he didn't write the dialogue, he slightly revised it. *SOURCE* : The original drawings, which still contain these dialogue notes from Ditko. Kirby also did this.

@RBorouma

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrMarsFargo You're correct. Funny enough I just found out about this yesterday.

@Diakron79 He is recognised isn't he. I never remember a time when I didn't know Stan AND Steve made Spidey. I've read the early stories he is clearly credited

The fantastic four bares a lot of similarity to dc's challengers of the unknown. Both hands one man in common. Jack Kirby..... not Stan Lee.

Stan doesn't mention it here, and portrays it in a very positive light, but by the time they got to issue#25 or so of Spider-man, they were no longer on speaking terms. And the final straw was when Stan felt that the true identity of the Green Goblin should be one of the regular characters, while Ditko felt it should be someone completely new, Stan felt that would cheat the fans, Ditko walked and Romita took over. Ditko deserves all the credit in the world for creating that classic costume.

Realy CaptainAndyman, Lee and many others have said that Spiderman was a success because of Ditko, and without Ditko to establish the character(the look was very important) than its doughtful another artist would have been able to capture reader imagination.

Stan was an extrovert, Steve was an introvert, go figure.

@DeepSouthWrestling1 It was Ditkos fault for his lack of vision. He thought the strip was through once Parker was taken out of high school. It was stated clearly in the documentary that I mentioned to you. Why would Ditko think this? He clearly was someone who was not cut out for longevity in this series to give up so easily. He also despised that the identity of the Green Goblin was a regular cast member(Norman Osborne) and not some unknown. Little things like this were enough for Ditko....

I guess I could be swayed both ways here. I can see how he could be considered a co-creator, but for me, there's a line between creation and development. Stan seems to have created the idea, while Steve developed it. Both are notable, but Stan is right - he could have given the idea to Kirby and had him draw it, or gave it to any number of talented artists and had them draw it. Just because the character is successful doesn't mean the rules change on who created it.

@mikethaison432

8 ай бұрын

What made the comic successful was not the "durr make him red and give him spider powers durr" it was the writing itself and the character of Peter Parker. The fact that the images were already drawn before Stan Lee even began to write in them shows the storyline was already taking place before Stan Lee even touched the page, he simply slanted it to lean more towards his beliefs. Which honestly made the story worse. It's very easy to tell which parts are written by Ditko and which parts are written by Stan Lee.

This is tricky, because on one side I think that (from what's above anyway) Stan's more the creator and Steve's the designer, but another part of me thinks, if an architect crafts something at the request of his funder, who gets credit for creating the building?

What's the use, neither Stan or Steve own the character, I created spiderman

@toyhunter2903

5 жыл бұрын

The point of this is to fight disinformation against the lie called Stan Lee and give the credit to the proper people. Just because we love the truth and justice ⚖ 😉👍