Some creep: Go out with me or I'll jump Me: ..Then perish.

No wonder i hate public proposals

@boquintana9668

6 жыл бұрын

Princess Jello ALWAYS freaked me out. How could someone possibly feel comfortable saying no to a ring at a basketball game? why would anyone want to trick their partner into marrying them?

@lukeism2

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah but it’s hilarious if it’s a joke

@cogitorium1089

6 жыл бұрын

I mean, people talk about wanting to get married before the actual proposal happens, so in most cases the act itself is purely for the show. The drop on one knee + give her the ring moment is not when one makes a decision, it's when the decision becomes official.

@alopiaspelagicus1628

6 жыл бұрын

If anyone proposed to me publically I'd say no on sheer principle!

@RandomSwiftie13

3 ай бұрын

Lol same

I've had a stalker, and some of friends have had stalkers too. What's worse is sometimes cops, won't take your report seriously and have made comments like "Clearly he likes you, maybe you should give him a shot." Not cool at all.

@PopCultureDetective

6 жыл бұрын

That’s a very important point. Makes me reconsider my “calling the cops” joke in this video.

@KaylaMarie_

6 жыл бұрын

Pop Culture Detective I didnt even take that as a joke.

@neaaa9931

6 жыл бұрын

One of my stalker was skinny and kinda short so when I told adults they just said that he wasn't a real threat to me and because I probably was stronger than him I should just try and ignore him, ugh

@PS-dm1dq

6 жыл бұрын

Wow... that is truly terrifying.

@Bubba__Sawyer

5 ай бұрын

No cop would say something like that. Gimme a break 🙄

A good test: Put horror music over the scene. If it feels silly, the scene was okay. If it feels creepy.... you can use the scenes as an example for this video.

I just want to say for anyone who might see this, that I had a stalker who said he would kill himself if I didn't go out with him, but I still refused, and guess what? He didn't. And even if someone does hurt themselves, it is not your responsibility. You do not have to accept coercive offers made using manipulative tactics just to keep that person safe.

@melodyclark1944

6 жыл бұрын

This! People don't get it. It's like, "Oh, divorce is bad for men because they are more likely to commit suicide." Not her problem! No one should have to stay in a bad relationship even if vows were said.

@user-tw3rh9po4t

Ай бұрын

@@melodyclark1944Especially if the woman’s the reason why they’re in a bad relationship.

@XohjaiSbarkeater

Ай бұрын

.

@SpocksCat

7 күн бұрын

It's also worth mentioning that someone's bad mental health (or claim of bad mental health) doesn't obligate a person to spend time with them or perform emotional labor for them if they don't want to have anything to do with that person. If a man's threatening self-harm to get a woman's attention or intimacy, she can call the police and ask them to have him placed under suicide watch if she's concerned for his safety, she doesn't have to have any interaction with him.

This trope gave birth to the "nice guys" that wine about the "friendzone" And it's horrifying

@PS-dm1dq

6 жыл бұрын

The whole "friendzoning" thing is just so ignorant. Guys who bitch like this are so clueless they don't realize that a healthy relationship is much more likely to develop out of genuine friendship than whining and acting like girls are somehow obligated to "give them a chance". The idea that being "just" a friend is somehow an insult or not worth their time shows just what an entitled little prick that kind of guy is.

@Niobesnuppa

6 жыл бұрын

Well that, and people who think women should be mind readers. Like, if you don't actually tell a woman how you feel about her, how can you whine about being friendzoned? It's like they can't imagine a women and men just being friends and expect the women to think all men they associate with are attracted to them, it's ridiculous.

@sarahthomas8670

2 ай бұрын

Fr

The "I have a boyfriend" as a tactic to get a man to leave a woman alone is problematic also. It assumes that a man will respect the boundaries of another man (i.e. the fictional or real boyfriend in this scenario), but will not respect the boundaries and wishes of the woman.

@melodyclark1944

6 жыл бұрын

Even worse when he accuses her of lying to get rid of him. Like take a hint. She's not interested.

@Toshimi1043

6 жыл бұрын

Sadly, it's that way in real life too. Often times a man is harassing a woman, and when her boyfriend shows up, he apologizes to the boyfriend instead of the woman he was harassing.

@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722

4 ай бұрын

​@@Toshimi1043It's even worse if you must face a very pissed off parent

@woahdotoah

4 ай бұрын

i use this line all the time and im a guy- so the rest of the comment is meaningless

@Ab3ndcgi

3 ай бұрын

Dude, if women could just say to a guy "not interested" and have their wishes respected, we would not do that in the first place. We do that because men don't respect our boundaries and wishes when we tell them "no", and it's only the threat of having their ass kicked by another guy, beign it boyfriend or parent, what convinces them to finally leave us alone. I used to hang out with my girlfriends in gay clubs for this very reason of not having to deal with tresspasing drunken guys that quicly turn hostile and harassing when you kindly turn them down.

This trope is so harmful! People think it's okay because the girls always end up reciprocating the feeling but it's absolutely not. And if a man doesn't respect a women's boundaries before they start dating he is sure as hell not going to respect them when they are in a relationship, which just makes it easier to create abusive relationships.

@astrinymris9953

6 жыл бұрын

For some reason, self-described "nice guys" fail to realize that these movies are fiction, so of course they end with the woman falling in love with the author-insert character. She's a fictional character, so she has no agency of her own. That doesn't mean that the same tactics are welcomed by real women.

@thepaintedlady4637

6 жыл бұрын

I fully agree! Women end up capitulating from being 'worn down' or worse they end up being manipulated into an unhealthy relationship.. and these things are glorified or romanticized by Hollywood. I think the Fifty shades saga is another perfect example of an abusive stalking for love dynamic. Hope that one gets reviewed soon. There we see an even more troubling trope - the idea that the perfect woman can reform or fix a deeply narcissistic or even sociopathic personality. So many women fall for that trap in real life and don't even know how to recognize the boundary transgressions and controlling behaviors, they think that what they see in the movies is playing out for them in their lives but don't know what the real world consequences will be.

Love the example of The Notebook. Everyone always claims it is THE romantic movie of the century, but as someone who has had a guy threaten to kill himself if I didn't go out with him, it always rubbed me the wrong way. That is not the way to start a relationship

@mandlerparr1

6 жыл бұрын

what I hate even more than him asking like that is her current dates reaction to her finally saying yes. Like, dude, are your seriously getting mad at her because she said yes to prevent a guy from killing himself? Neither of them were good men.

@Bubba__Sawyer

5 ай бұрын

Don't forget it's women who love this movie.

@mayasyed7497

5 ай бұрын

​@@Bubba__Sawyer unfortunately, yes.

Yes yes yes thank you- a stalker once continually showed up at my work and finally delivered a huge bouquet of roses at a busy hour. My coworkers all cooed and when I expressed my revulsion, they said, “poor guy”. This shit really does shape our culture and perspectives.

@iAmLeRoY1221

6 жыл бұрын

When I was in high school, a guy a couple of grades below gave me valentines gifts (chocolate, balloon, teddy bear, the whole thing). We'd talked but I had never ever at all indicated romantic interest, but after he gave me the presents, my own friends, who knew i had no interest in him whatsoever, were like you should at least give him a kiss as though i owed him something in return for the gifts I'd never asked for. It's weird how people think you can so easily buy affection from women regardless of their feelings on the subject.

@GummyDinosaursify

6 жыл бұрын

I also had a similar experience where he would go to my friends and family and tell them I rejected him. My parents would constantly tell me I should go out with him because he "looked so sad". My friends would joke around that I just needed to be "worn down". It's really messed up.

@toomuchinformation

6 жыл бұрын

Honey Casablancas I feel that public proposals of marriage are very similar, but worse. A woman is put in a position where she feels that she has to say "yes", otherwise she's a cold, hard bitch.

I remember a conversation I had with a woman who said she grew up believing she was ugly/a failure because no one stalked her in high school and college. She figured there must something horribly wrong with her since stalking behavior was what she grew up believing was the definition of romance. Eventually, in college, she got a stalker and married him. He ended up being horribly abusive and they divorced after two years. She now is a strong advocate against romance fiction in general.

I remember seeing a post insulting a woman in this guys class who didnt go outside to see a man who was waiting outside her school with a bouquet every day and i just thought this man is turning up somewhere he KNOWS she has to leave and cant avoid him and people are insulting HER for not rewarding him??? Its just so creepy that people find this behaviour sweet and romantic

Every breath you take Every move you make Every bond you break Every step you take I'll be watching you

@mxar2074

6 жыл бұрын

Hannah Black jeezus that's spoooky

@wolfjackle

6 жыл бұрын

What's worse is when you meet someone who honestly thinks it's a love song. When my cousin said that to me when we were kids I was honestly speechless.

@AlliWalker

6 жыл бұрын

Thankfully, Sting didn't write that song to be romantic, people just took it the wrong way.

@toomuchinformation

6 жыл бұрын

Hannah Black And would you believe that some people think that this is a LOVE song? I'm serious. There was a documentary in the UK a few years ago about best selling songs. "Every Breath You Take" by the Police was one of those songs. Apparently, a fair percentage see it as a love song. Amazing.

@user-tw3rh9po4t

4 ай бұрын

I guess that one Internet privacy commercial took it the right way.

"Attraction is not the same thing as love" SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

I’ve never seen the Notebook, but OMFG did he actually threaten to kill himself if she didn’t go out with him?? That is SO disgusting and so OBVIOUSLY abusive!! Why the hell do so many people love that movie?????!!!!!!!!!

@Bubba__Sawyer

5 ай бұрын

Don't forget it's almost entirely women who love this movie and prop it up as the quintessential romance movie.

@sarahthomas8670

2 ай бұрын

Fr

@KnarfStein

2 ай бұрын

She should've just said, "Cool, bro."

The amount of women in the comment section telling their own experiences with stalkers is overwhelming. This trope needs to be destroyed Also thank you for including Adaline, i saw it recently and i couldn't believe my own eyes, she said no over and over and over again and yet...

@arihasy

6 жыл бұрын

Edurne Ace me too. I felt so angry when he just when to her house and then couldn't understand why she was angry. During the whole movie he appear so creepy to me.

@oskarkuelz2706

6 жыл бұрын

It's funny (worrying actually) how I hear many men say: But this is what you want - women say this and only mean "try harder". And they honestly think that it is their experience telling them to keep going. While it truly must be ideas from films, series, etc.

the characterization of a female character specifically through how a male character voyeuristically sees her has always bothered me. it always makes the girl an end goal rather than her own person.

@chubeatle

6 жыл бұрын

yeah, but i would add that it doesnt represent the point of view of the guy only. When (some) women write about a romantic fantasy it ends up becoming the same tropes (twilight). It isnt a "male" point a view its just a stupid point of view.

@BrothersBrooks

6 жыл бұрын

Ouch. That sucks. I'd prefer straight talk and to be turned away than embarrass or harass unknowingly. And its tropes like this that make it harder to do. My experience is that people I am interested in who don't feel the same way usually drop all communication. I hope its not me, just a run of bad experiences but without any clear answer I can't know. I really don't want to be a bad guy. Best I can do is respect the silence and move on, doesn't' feel right though. Gotta be a better way. I don't think your a bad person. You did do the right thing. I think it would be great to see that kind of story a bit more often.

@phaedrus4931

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Her story arc is realizing Mr. Man knew what was best the whole time. So damn cringey.

@HikariMichi42

6 жыл бұрын

I hate it when guys suddenly get interested in me (they tend to do a kind of intense stare that's really creepy) and act like they know everything about me when really that's the opposite of the truth. Like there was a guy who had met me just twice at school and he kept overstepping my personal boundaries and talked to me as if I was someone he had known all his life. Eventually I started looking around for him every time I entered the classroom and then went as far away from him as possible, because if he saw me he wouldn't leave me alone. Even during breaks when I took out my cellphone to signal to him that I wanted privacy he kept pestering me and asked me things non-stop. I got the impression he had a fantasy about what I was like and didn't even care that I was a real person, he wanted me to be the way that suited his needs.

I LOVE that you used Morticia and Gomez as an example of healthy love. They are seriously goals. Respect boundaries, demonstrate love and caring, help and support each other-just ugh. Love your stuff as always.

@theaverageglasses6197

6 жыл бұрын

They totally are, looking back on the old Addams family movies these actually show a lot of good qualities that Gomez and Morticia have (in their love for each other and for their children). I think they are also one of the most positive married couples I can remember having seen portrayed in media in a funny way, without involving jokes on how marriage made them resent each other. They're just so darn happy together it's fantastic.

@TyphoonJig

6 жыл бұрын

They with Al and Lois from Malcolm in the middle are my perfect example of a functioning fictional couple.

@jellybumfruitcakes

6 жыл бұрын

They're extremely honest with each other as well. It's done in a comedic way but it's still brilliant.

@Gadzinisko

6 жыл бұрын

The joke about Addams family is not that they are creepy and spooky. The joke is that they are really really happy.

@jenni4claire

5 ай бұрын

As a child, Gomez Adams, in the form of John Astin, was my ideal husband

"Romantic love is not something that only one person can feel towards another" so important. I wish this would be said more often. I remember being sure I loved many people I had a crush on, before I actually got into a relationship and fell in love. This myth needs to stop.

@WobblesandBean

6 жыл бұрын

I agree. Ever notice how in the beginning of many rom coms, the protagonist is already with someone that they're bored of? They toss their stable, long-term relationships away for the sake of someone they just met. That's not love, that's infatuation, and it really pisses me off that these film's message is if your relationship requires any effort to maintain in any capacity, then you aren't meant to be.

@timeaesnyx

6 жыл бұрын

Interesting, that puts a new spin on the birth of Anteros.

My mother was stalked when she was a teenager, and a guy would follow her home and wrote her notes in blood and threatened to kill himself if she rejected him. She did, and he ended up hospitalized from a suicide attempt. This romanticization of stalkers in media has only led to more women experiencing what my mom did. Thanks for shedding light on this topic.

As much as I love Stranger Things, the fact that both Nancy and Max end up with the guys that creeped up on them really rubs me the wrong way. It's one thing to show people expressing an intense amount of love, but that only works if it's mutual. Hell, that's why I love The Addams Family so much.

@Bubba__Sawyer

5 ай бұрын

Well, in the first season of Stranger Things they tried to subvert this by having Nancy stay with Steve, but the stupid fan base begged for Nancy to end up with Jonathan in season 2, and the producers caved in.

Love this. It's weird to see that it ACTUALLY has a real world impact. My ex was telling me about how this guy tried asking her out at an IHOP by having the entire IHOP staff carry a pancake to her with "Will you go out with me?" written on it. She wasn't interested, so she had to say no, but she nearly had an anxiety attack by being put on the spot and feeling heartless because she turned him down in front of all these people. It's not cute.

Just last year I was on a study trip where a guy literally went through the whole checklist on one of my friends: watching her while she was asleep, bombing her with unwanted messages and memes, constantly trying to touch and following her. It was horrifying to see, most of all because it affected her so much. In just a week, her personality flipped completely, because he was constantly making her feel unsafe. And when she reported it to the organization, the reply she got was : Have you tried turning down your charm a bit? I could have killed them!

Even though my grandfather has dementia and can’t remember his own name, he tells my grandma that he loves her multiple times per day. That is love. Stalking isn’t.

@melodyclark1944

6 жыл бұрын

So how does one get to that point?

@jamilabrownie

6 жыл бұрын

That sincerely touched my heart.

And the weirdest part is that many of these movies are romance or romantic comedy. These movies are made for women as the intended audience. I guess the men who wrote those screenplays don't know or care how women actually feel about creepy stalker behavior.

@melodyclark1944

6 жыл бұрын

The video makes me wonder how many healthy relationship there are in romances and romantic comedies. They are out there, right?

Not just the fact that women are attacked/raped/murdered by stalkers and the mental toll stalking takes, but it takes a monetary toll as well. Not just in moving a lot or paying for therapy, but also in things like losing employment. Many women have been fired or let go from their job because a stalker was causing problems or was posing a danger to the other employees/workplace. And most jobs feel it is the fault of the woman for being stalked in the first place. It is always "you never should have dated him/ not dated him/said hi/etc. in the first place." Partial blame is almost always partially placed on the woman being stalked. Stalkers don't just cause a little anxiety that women need to get over. Even when a stalker never does anything violent, they still ruin peoples lives.

@maryfrancess93

22 күн бұрын

I remember when a guy came in to my work yelling slurs and trying to start a fight with my then boyfriend because I had turned him down. I had never showed interest in the first place. My boss cussed me out and put me on leave because apparently I "provoked" the guy.

I am 100% sure that my "if he stalks me or obsesses over me, he really loves me" mentality came from media like this. It has ended me up in multiple abusive relationships and with a stalker. Thank you so much for this.

The “forever and ever and ever.....” carved into all the trees is nightmare inducing holy god. WHO finds that romantic.

@Ab3ndcgi

3 ай бұрын

The trees clearly don't. Imagine if someone carved the name of somebody you didn't even know into your flesh. "Oh, I really love this person, I should totally let the world know how much in love I am by mutilating and torturing this living thing right here".

In college, I had a guy who actually believed if he stalked me enough, I'd return his feelings even after I explicitly told him I wasn't interested. (In fact, right after I explicitly told him "no", I got a text saying he'd wait for me to "come to terms with my feelings." Blegh! Blocked him). This all started in 2013 and I still occasionally need to block his puppet social media accounts.

This made me think of another thing I've seen a lot in movies: Boys or men who secretively watch a woman / girl getting undressed or showering etc. Like, boys peeking through a window / door, men sneaking a peek when they were told to turn away and not look while a woman is changing etc. And it's usually played as boys will be boys, this is natural curiosity, he is just so in love with her that he can't look away. I don't know. It's not as common and probably not big enough to call it a trope, but I find it super creepy and scary. (Also, there are probably example where women / girls whatch men / boys, I just can't think of any)

@toomuchinformation

6 жыл бұрын

imaginareality The male gaze. The masculine p.o.v is the default, the feminine is the "other". It's like being a fish in water, so normal that you don't notice it.

As a lesbian woman, I would say that even I fell subject to a lot of this behavior and treated a lot of women similarly because that was what I had been shown worked in popular media. I feel so horrible about it now. There is never a good reason to think "she just doesn't understand how much I love her" and justify it as appropriate behavior when you continue to ignore her privacy and make her uncomfortable until she finally gives in to your demands.

I have noticed a homophobic trope where very flamboyant gay men relentlessly come on to straight people, and it’s framed as “what gay men do.” Similarly to women stalking for love, fictional gay men who don’t take consent seriously get none of the forgiveness straight men get in the same position. It’s as if they can only tell how gross it is once it’s directed towards them…

Holy cow, I've never seen The Notebook and never plan to, but the fact that Ryan Gosling's character pretty much forced Rachel Adams' to go out with him by threat of suicide is disgusting and how the hell is The Notebook some people's favorite romantic movie. Thanks for this wonderfully insightful video! This trope is especially common in Indian cinema (it's even worse over there), so more people need to not accept it as the norm.

@melodyclark1944

6 жыл бұрын

I don't think that is anyone's favorite part of the movie.

As a young man growing up in the 90s and 00s I feel like a victim of this sort of Hollywood Masculinity. And I feel bad for any women that I affected this way. I'm glad we have cartoons like Steven universe and adventure Time that portray Masculinity in a healthier manner. Wish I was raised with that instead.

@alopiaspelagicus1628

6 жыл бұрын

Dante Rodrigues I think you acknowledging it will definitely make a difference in the lives of men and women around you!

this video feels like a hug

@oskarkuelz2706

6 жыл бұрын

And not the creepy, unwanted one.

Considering how often The Notebook is sighted as women's favourite film, I was shocked when I found that the male lead demands a date at the threat of suicide.

I am glad you're finally tackling this trope. It's been one that has bothered me for so long; it's creepy, annoying and almost unavoidable in mainstream media.

A failed twist on this trope is Passengers. I think it was Nerdwriter who made a video about how the movie should have taken the perspective of Jennifer Lawrence's character, and had Chris Pratt's character die in the end, rather than them getting together. He talked about how it could have been rewritten to be more of a horror. I think the reason this didn't happen is probably because of this trope. The movie tries to present a big moral question about whether it's ok to stalk someone because you're desperately, unhealthily alone. But rather than answering this, it's just Stalking For Love in Space. I wish they had made it a horror movie, because it would have been a great subversion of this trope.

@labi2999

6 жыл бұрын

faalkaa I just finished watching that movie. I agree with you.

@Everyyoueverymiau

6 жыл бұрын

Now I understand why it feels like I've already watched this video. I've already seen the Nerdwriter video and I liked it very much.

@LemonSte

6 жыл бұрын

i feel cheated that the movie isn't a horror tbh i'd love to se a full length re-edit

@td3312

6 жыл бұрын

Passengers is a very good example, and it's always so annoying that even when the film itself shows hints that it recognizes that what the male protagonist does is """wrong""", it always rewards him because it just so happens, oh so conveniently, that the love interest doesn't mind the stalking or abuse and gives her consent retroactively. Jonathan said at the end that he's working on a video about "abduction for love", and I wonder if he'll cover Passengers in that.

@LittleHobbit13

6 жыл бұрын

On the surface, I would agree that Passengers falls into this trope. However, I disagree with your opinion that the movie presents it as "it's okay to stalk someone because you're desperately, unhealthily alone." That's *not* the argument the movie made. That all hinges on the concept of "the drowning man will always try to drag someone down with him". Summed up: humans are pack animals and we're not designed to live in isolation. Very bad things happen when humans are cut off from the world. Jim is inherently a good person, and even acknowledges right up front "What if you could make your life infinitely better, but at the expense of ruining someone else's?" He's not passing his connection with Aurora off as love. That connection is a lifeboat. He regards her much like some of us regard our connections with fictional characters: someone with whom to have a meaningful but non-existent relationship. He grows to love her after learning more about her, enough that he doesn't _want_ to ruin her life by waking her up, but again: humans in isolation make terrible decisions for the sake of their own survival. And Aurora's choosing to remain awake is similarly only superficially "rewarding the stalking". But her choice ties into the movie's other lesson: "You can't get so hung up on where you'd rather be that you forget to make the most of where you are." Jim offers her, freely, the opportunity to go back to sleep and return to her previous life plan of telling a unique story from her travels. She makes the choice to stay awake because she realizes that by staying awake she can _truly_ achieve her dream to write a story that nobody else can ever write, just not in the way she originally planned. Definitely is there stalking behavior, hell yes, and it's a well-told tension in the story and relationship while never really being validated as an acceptable action. But it's not ultimately the message of the story; _Passengers_ wasn't really a Romance movie. And like I said: that started out as a lifeboat connection. Jim wasn't so much fixated on _Aurora_ so much as he was in dire need of _any_ human connection and just happened upon her. As I've told other people, imagine the story if he'd stumbled across a man instead. How might that be more forgiveably framed in people's minds?

One of the creepiest things to me is something that Hollywood actresses have been doing for a LONG TIME.... and there’s an example of it in the video (Andie MacDowell in St. Elmo’s Fire)!! It’s when the male lead suddenly and unexpectedly kisses the female co-star, so she does the “ball my hands in a fist to fight you off, but wait, I actually like this, so I’m gonna put my arms around your neck instead.” It perfectly exemplifies this whole trope in one gesture. If a man kissed me, and my FIRST REACTION was to ball my hands up into fists because I’m about to punch him, my mind wouldn’t be changed by his soft lips or kissing ability. Because that’s fucking insane.

As someone who’s been stalked more than once and is still dealing with the anxiety from it I can’t thank you enough. So sick of this behavior being celebrated in media. It definitely encourages this behavior to continue.

@eyeamphree3337

2 ай бұрын

It's weird & only weirdos will justify it

The two Addams's as a perfect couple? I never thought about that before but it's SO TRUE. They love each other so much!

@TyphoonJig

6 жыл бұрын

They have an absolute love for each other, backed with total loyalty to each other and murderous intents toward anything menacing them.

@mattkeeley7053

6 жыл бұрын

This is one of my favorite things about the Addams Family. They're all really friendly, loving folks. Don't cross 'em, and you'll be fine!

@jessielefey

6 жыл бұрын

And it's joyously and explicitly mutual. Seriously, they are #relationshipgoals if you stop to think about it. Get you a partner who cares that being a stay-at-home parent isn't completely fulfilling. Get you a partner with mutual kinks. Get you a partner who is enthusiastically consenting instead of expecting you to read their mind. The Addams are *amazing* in every iteration so far. :-D

@jellybumfruitcakes

6 жыл бұрын

One of the best on screen couples ever!

@kefsound

6 жыл бұрын

The "perfect couple" concept is toxic.

With this being so common in popular movies and TV shows is it any wonder both men and women have trouble understanding what a healthy dating relationship looks like?

I love Stranger Things and I can sort of sympathize with Lucas's actions in season 2 because of he's in middle school and learning to navigate the confusing mess that is puberty (lord knows I did some cringey shit when I was that age) but that scene where Jonathan photographs Nancy is just straight-up creepy. It kinda ruined an otherwise sympathetic character that I saw a lot of myself in. When Steve smashed his camera I couldn't even feel that bad for him because... yeah dude, you don't fucking do that. I thought Nancy staying with Steve at the end of season 1 and just being friends with Jonathan was a great subversion of the 80's "nice guy steals the girl away from the popular jerk" trope. Flash forward to season 2 and Nancy apparently doesn't care about Jonathan's creepy behavior anymore and hooks up with him after leaving Steve, who's gone through a great arc and is now maybe the most likeable character on the show. How many layers of subversion and reversal is that?

@thatjillgirl

6 жыл бұрын

Glad I'm not the only one who felt that way! I was pretty confused by the fact that so many people thought that Steve was a bad guy throughout most of season one. I didn't think he was a *good* guy, per se, but I thought his anger toward Jonathan was pretty understandable. I liked Jonathan and Nancy better as friends and definitely think it's a little weird that she wound up with the guy who literally took photos of her undressing without her consent.

@melodybeattie4108

6 жыл бұрын

You put exactly what I felt through the series into words!!

@TheKirschbaumfee

6 жыл бұрын

TJ Hastie sorry to say that but Steve is a big jerk himself. To him women are if at all secon class people. its so frustrating to see all those people just love him while he teaches young boys how to manipulate girls into liking them and say "hes acting like a big brother, so cute!" ugh! the worst are the ones who actually see these trope and decide to ignore it with the explaination that seeing women as uneaqual humans isnt something that makes a character unlikable. if you dont know what i am talking about rewatch the scene where Steve and Dustin are walking on the train rails. enough said.

@TheKirschbaumfee

6 жыл бұрын

there, i found it: kzread.info/dash/bejne/X4B5qK-lpq--oqw.html At first its seen as "ok" to threatens the life of people to mpress a girl who doenst even want to get impressed. then Steve explains how to master manipulating girls and on top of this he explains how all girls are the same , like you can put them in maybe three kind of boxes. the only "special" "other" girl is the ones that he luckily gets to know better. though he doenst came to the resolution that ever girl could have a complex identity like himself and shes rather a rare kind of girl (see how it sounds like hes talking about animals?)

@duffman18

6 жыл бұрын

TJ Hastie Yep I agree, and it's not even like John is portrayed as likeable and misunderstood like a lot of these films do, at least at first. He's shown as creepy even beyond his stalking behaviour. And yet yes Nancy finds him irresistible apparently even leading to I guess breaking up either Steve, though they never really address it. Steve as you say has grown as a character and is one of the most likeable on the show, and is quite different from how most male characters are portrayed, showing him as good at looking after kids which is usually depicted as a "feminine" thing that men shouldn't do (which is BS obviously) so it's nice they show that to be a positive male thing and what makes him a good person. I guess the John being creepy thing might be defended as "the show is a homage to 80s movies so they should include the common 80s stalker trope" but they still don't give him any serious repurcussions. I guess because they want him to be one of the heroes of the show, and so they think they can't show him as having any really serious negative flaws, which annoys me as bland action films always do that so it'd be nice to have a morally grey character instead. I do enjoy the Bob character who again subverts common depictions of what a "real man" has to be and is a great father figure who's again great at looking after the kids, though again he seems a bit too perfect sometimes. The show is stuck sometimes between trying to hard to stick to 80s tropes and trying to subvert them.

I think at least part of the reason this trope exists is because it takes forming a relationship - something that usually involves stereotypically emotional, "feminine" concerns such as negotiation, compromise, talking about feelings and vulnerability, all of which might result in loss of face or loss of power for the male lead - and instead frames it as an "uber-masculine" activity: hunting. Identify the target, follow it, learn its habits and the times that its's most vulnerable, try to outsmart it when it becomes aware of your unwelcome presence, adapt your tactics to the terrain/circumstances, refuse to give up, drive it into a corner and beat other hunters to the prize. Throw in the fact that most of these films tend to be aimed at women, not men, and you've got a trope that's worrying on about twelve different levels.

Another Pop Culture Detective video, another couple of movies ruined for me... Additionally, you provide the tools for me to ruin movies and tv shows for myself. What I'm trying to say is... thank you and keep 'em coming!

@PopCultureDetective

6 жыл бұрын

You're welcome.

@Sealinkchin

6 жыл бұрын

I'm right there with you. Though I did see it in most of the examples (that I've seen), I hadn't connected Groundhog Day to it. Ah, well. Just something I'll be more aware of.

@Eilowyn

6 жыл бұрын

Ruining Love Actually for everyone else has become a holiday tradition for me. What else are we going to watch? Die Hard?

@Sealinkchin

6 жыл бұрын

I kinda already had the book ruined for me (Die Hard).

@kin2naruto

6 жыл бұрын

Saw "Love Actually" in the theater - my takeaway was that there was ONE couple of that whole bunch that was actually in love (or at least had a reasonably solid foundation for love). My reading of the movie was that it was an interesting (and dark) deconstruction of the romance genre. There are people who take that movie at face value? Really?

It's weird to realise the number of films I've seen that actually have the stalking for love trope. Really eye-opening. It's so creepy and sends completely the wrong message of how love should be.

I absolutely despise this trope, and I hate how prevalent it is. I do think one thing you could have brought up in this video would have been about guys complaining about the “friendzone”. As if being nice to a women is supposed to make her magically reciprocate their feelings.

My ex (from over 10 years ago) has in recent months texted novels to me and my mother, written 14 page love letters from jail, broken into my apartment building, got on a friends fb pretending to be her to ambush me with my son at the playground, assaulted another friend to steal the my spare keys, tried to overdose outside my building, threatened to make false statements to the police and cps to get my son taken, and even threatened to kill me. He justified this by saying I gave him no choice because I wouldn't answer his calls. That he loved me so much and it was the least I could do to just let him be in my life and worship me (his words not mine). And I still had yet another friend try and say I was being unreasonable and should give him a chance. Thank you so much for making these videos and taking the time to explain what some of us just don't have the energy to. This cultural reinforcement is insanely toxic and damaging to everyone involved and you stated why in a way I don't think I ever could.

I've never seen The Notebook because the one time I decided to sit down and watch it I could not get past that scene. It was just so disturbing to me. "Date me or I'll kill myself in front of you. My blood will forever be on your hands". WTF is cute and charming about that????

I just wanted to take this moment to just let you know how much I appreciate the work you do. You might not fully realize it, but you're actually enacting real social change in those who view your work. A lot of these tropes are insidious and so generally accepted that it takes videos like these- videos that examine them earnestly and without flinching away- to help dismantle these toxic ideas about life that media tries to normalize.

This dude is out here pouring all the tea on Hollywood’s disturbing tropes, and I’m downing all of it

Marvelous video! It's also interesting to me how this relates to Pride & Prejudice, because people tend to interpret Darcy's actions as persistence and "not giving up on making Lizzy love him", but a good reading of the story is the exact opposite of the trope you discussed here. Darcy expresses his love to Lizzy, is surprised by her rejection, but takes her word on it. This is in direct contrast to her cousin mr. Collins, who ignores her rejection and thinks she's playing hard to get. Darcy instead believes her and...backs off. What he does for Lydia is not to gain Lizzy's trust or love, he just does it because he feels in a way responsible for Wickham and knows what the dude is capable of, so he does the family a favour by sparing them the scandal. Somehow, though, people completely miss this aspect of his character--that he respects women and their decisions, and doesn't impose his feelings upon them.

@emily_nelson

6 жыл бұрын

I love that you pointed this out! Darcy totally respects Lizzie's rejection; even the letter he gives her after begins with a reassurance that he's not trying again.

„Extreme Levels of entitlement“. Thank you.

Dude....DUDE Literally TWO days ago I got into an argument with my mom about a policy at google(i think) that states that you can only ask out a co-worker once and if you ask again after being rejected you can be subject to disciplinary action. She thought the rule was draconian and that "people's feelings change and sometimes you need to ask more than once" and I got so frustrated trying to explain that it's harmful to assume that persistence is a necessary or good part of courtship (especially in the workplace) or that the rejected party should just get to decide on their end that the object of their affection has changed their mind and they have the "right" to try again. This is so timely and now i need to try to get her to watch this. Also I wrote my senior capstone on the problematic parts of "10 things I hate about you" so i enjoy seeing other people make similar arguments.

"I've got it all planned out - I'm gonna ask you out in a crazy, over the top way, you'll be so charmed that you'll say you love me too, we'll go on a magical first date, be together forever and... what's that? You don't feel that way about me? Don't worry; *_we can fix that_* " - the supposed hero of the film

When you mentioned those coercive 'grand romantic' gestures, all it made me think of was those comments on failed wedding proposal videos where the woman is called every name in the book for turning down "a fallen brother", how she "was ugly anyway" and how women can't be trusted because they're gold diggers for not wanting marriage. Yeesh.

I feel like these types are tropes are always things that I peripherally notice and may be annoyed by, but when you put it in a video like this, it makes it so clear how much of a problem it is. Thank you so much for these videos!

Gotta love the Adams family

As someone who was stalked while underage by multiple old men, I was terrified.

Using the Addams Family as the depiction of real love is a great choice.

My experience with stalking was my abusive ex boyfriend "just wanting to talk". Coming to my house despite me telling him to go away, going places he knew I would be hoping to talk to me, sending me messages acting like none of the previous had happened... It's not romantic, it's not harmless, and it made me constantly look over my shoulder everywhere I went, overcome with anxiety. Thank you so much for this video.

This is why I actually really appreciate "How To Train Your Dragon," for its depiction of a healthy romantic relationship.

@daenysthedreamer5988

6 жыл бұрын

Indeed! I've never thought of that, but it's a really great example.

@kimifw58

6 жыл бұрын

I feel the same about Shrek 2.

@anonmouse6337

6 жыл бұрын

Of course, HTTYD has it's own problems wrt gender, but that's another topic for another day.

@nadiarey4196

6 жыл бұрын

Weeeell, in the first movie there wasn't really an upgrade from this theme of love through eyes. There's even a slow-mo scene with Astrid walking towards the protagonist as seen through his eyes -- though I'm willing to say he was thinking "how cool" instead of "yum, eye candy", they still had had zero interaction and was basing off his crush on only appearances...

@kayingham3528

6 жыл бұрын

Honestly, as much as I appreciated the Hiccup/Astrid dynamic, the coding of Stoic and Valta's relationship as abusive (right before his father dies a hero) was really triggery for me.

God I hate it so much that it feels like the safest way to reject someone's unwanted advances is to say you have a boyfriend/husband/whatever. Why isn't "I'm not interested" seen as just as valid by these douchebags?! What we're basically saying is that OUR opinion doesn't matter, but the "ownership tag" that someone else has put on us. Ugh.

@pollitorsiones

Ай бұрын

Probably it is a way of saying "if you keep insisting my boyfriend is gonna punch you in the face".. that may work better against a dude being a creep than just saying no sadly

I love that you used Morticia and Gomez Addams as your example of true, mutual love 🖤

Wish Id had this video to show my dad when we were watching the first season of Stranger Things and I kept saying that both Jonathan and Steve were in the middle of redemption arcs and my dad kept saying that Jonathans stalking hadnt been bad and "Jonathan was never shown as bad just sad and lonely so how can he be redeemed when he was never bad" and I kept trying to explain that stalking is not a sign of being a misunderstood loner who's just looking for love especially not when talking photos without consent, its creepy and dangerous and illegal. Wish I could have shown him this video back then.

@ojogbaneamedu2501

6 жыл бұрын

AcaciaFlowers Yeah I don’t like Jonothan in the slightest, his character has always bothered me.

I would love if you did a video on gay-coded villians/the sissy villain trope and how it is still being done today.

@morcates7312

6 жыл бұрын

Fandom Trash YES!! That would be great 👏👏👏

@claudis.4015

6 жыл бұрын

Fandom Trash Oh, that would be interesting! Also, the way mainstream media depecting men in women's clothing as something funny or cause for concern. They probably stem from the same underlying problem.

@TheSleepyowlet

6 жыл бұрын

Seconded! Well, maybe rather on queer-coded villains in general, and how gender-nonconformity is used by filmmakers to make villains "other". Because I can think of quite a few examples not limited to gay men...

@robinisomaa

6 жыл бұрын

I'd love to see that too. Even though I know how harmful this trope can be, and even though I'm queer myself, I can't help loving the hell out of villains like Bruno from Strangers on a Train (even though he might be the most toxic example I can think of).

@td3312

6 жыл бұрын

Your comment makes me think of the movie I Love You Phillip Morris, which actually fits into the subject of this video as well. In that movie, a man stalks his love interest briefly, and they get together. However, as the story progresses, the man is revealed to be obsessive, controlling, irresponsible, and ultimately abusive, always using love as an excuse - and wouldn't you know it, the couple is gay! I don't think it's a negative portrayal of homosexuality per se, but I think that because it's not a classic boy meets girl story, it manages to get away from the tropes of that genre and not romanticize harmful behavior.

No offence but why wasn't 50 shades of grey included

"But if they say they're not interested, it's not your job to test them on it." Perfect.

And you keep ruining movies for me. Just wanted to let you know that I use many of your ideas in my channel. The difference is that I ruin music for other people! Anyway, thank you sir, your channel is amazing.

@iugtlkf

6 жыл бұрын

Alvinsch parce que chévere verlo aquí🙌

@MogohViol

6 жыл бұрын

Criticising and liking a movie: you can both.

@VictorAnaliza

6 жыл бұрын

Alvinsch Hey, one of the best Spanish music youtubers follow Pop culture agency. It doesn't be chance indeed.

@VforValmont

6 жыл бұрын

Apenas ayer descubrí tu canal; ahora entiendo por qué tu comentario sobre el vídeo de ñas 4 décadas de Arjona me sonó familiar jajajajaja

@nitewarden

6 жыл бұрын

10 Things I Hate About You is up there in my favorite movie list but it's definitely a fair point how stalkery Patrick Verona is.

Watching your videos have helped me to finally understand that my ex was totally controlling and manipulative. At the time, I just knew I wasn't happy, but I didn't know why and I always worried that I'd made a mistake. Thanks for telling me I wasn't crazy. I'm so happy I left that situation when I did.

@thesunnysam

6 жыл бұрын

eruditeidiot Glad you’re not in that situation anymore, good for you 💕😌

@b.sylphaen

6 жыл бұрын

We are all happy that you left! I hope there is nothing but healthy love in your life!

@thewingedcroc

6 жыл бұрын

if anyone ever questions the point of covering these topics you're proof it's worthwhile 💕💕💕💕💕

As someone who has been stalked, I agree with this video 100% He told me he was being romantic and LOVED me to justify his actions. I had to involve the police, I had to move, and get a concealed carry. This guy stalked me from one city to another for 20 years!!!! He had a ROOM dedicated to me! Stalking is dangerous! He came to my home, my work, my school. I was 16 when he started stalking me, but I still knew I DIDN'T WANT HIM!

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is legit one of the best shows on television, it basically is the best example of "depict stalking as creepy, even when sympathetic people do it", while also being a pretty powerful character study and an honest look at mental illness. Which I just never would have assumed based on the title alone

There could probably a 2-hour long video listing all the examples from Bollywood movies. Stalking is glorified to a whole new length in Indian cinema and the consequences for women are even worse for it.

Addams Family FTW! Also, so glad you featured Jonathan from Stranger Things stalking Nancy. That made me super uncomfortable in the first season, and I was annoyed that it seemed we were expected to just forget about him being creepy and weird and suddenly we're supposed to root for him because he's an unpopular kid (and therefore, the underdog). Just because you're a social outcast doesn't mean you're automatically a good person.

You know, stalking is actually counter-productive. When someone pushes you, the most natural response is to pull away. And, as someone who has a strong sense of self, nothing pisses me off more than someone who thinks he knows better than I do what I need. That's the last thing I want in a partner. And feeling pressure to like someone never helps me like them, either. Not to mention, someone who can't take no for answer tends to come off as needy and pathetic. It's not that I don't understand the impulse-- unrequited love is hard, and you feel like you'd do anything if it'd make that person change their mind. But stalking ain't gonna do it.

"Making someone feel unsafe is a terrible, terrible way to show you care about them."

This is one of the main reasons most (if not all) of my favourite romantic movies have a woman (or a non-straight male) as the main character. Too many movies portray 'getting the girl' as the main goal of the character, and too often this goal looks purely selfish and is achieved at the expense of the girl herself.

THANK YOU. This trope is one of the main reasons I can't stand most romantic comedies. Stalking is possibly the least sexy thing ever.

It’s so disturbing that stalking for love is almost exclusively marketed to women as the example of what makes a guy a keeper

@Bubba__Sawyer

5 ай бұрын

It's up to both men and women to work towards reversing these ideas by moving away from traditional gender roles. Women still generally expect men to do all the courting in the beginning stages of a relationship. Too many supposed feminists or "strong independent women" still want a traditional man and relationships with traditional values.

I failed a semester in 2016 from severe stalking. It's not love, it's not cute, it can escalate to assault and make you feel unsafe even in your own home. :( There was no grand romantic gesture. Only sexual assault and harassment.

I'm so glad you talked about Groundhog Day. So tired of people who love it getting defensive about it's use of the romantic stalker trope.. It's the epitome of treating relationships like a videogame where if you reset your saves enough times to find the "correct" dialogue options you can "win" the object of your affections. That's a horrific way to approach people in real life. Gross gross gross.

@MisdirectedSasha

6 жыл бұрын

I'm almost tempted to give groundhog day a pass in-context in that the protagonist has literally infinite time with nothing else to do. He attempts suicide a few times before he even tries to date his coworker, and somewhat succeeds romantically with her out of sheer sympathy when he tells her what's going on. But of course each time he gets sent right back to the start again. Might be remembering the sequence wrong though. The fact that ultimately seducing her on false pretenses is what lifts the curse is significantly harder to defend.

@vicky__p

6 жыл бұрын

The only way I can vaguely attempt to justify Groundhog Day was that he actually only escaped the time loop when he stopped trying to win her through trickery and just tried to be a better person. Weak, I know.

I love this video. I see this everywhere in movies and even in real life and it creeps me out! This is not love, it's obsession! This happened to me once and it was so difficult to get this guy out of my life. It was truly suffocating and I'm glad it's over.

This is why I love "When Harry Met Sally". No stalking, coercion, just two people who initially dislike each other, slowly develop a friendship, and ultimately end up in love. Also, shoutout to Charlie from Always Sunny in Philadelphia, who fits this stalker trope to a tee, but the waitress victim never once returns his feelings, in fact has filed multiple restraining orders against him (Until season 12, but it turns around completely)

A few folks have objected to my inclusion of Groundhog Day in this Stalking For Love video essay. Unlike some of the other complaints, these feel like they're made in good faith. The film does have some nuance to it but I’d like to take a minute to talk about why it fits the trope. The objections I’m seeing go something like this: “Yes Phil stalks Rita but it doesn’t work. She falls for him only after he becomes a better person.” That’s a fair reading and the one the movie wants us to take away. However I think the message is a bit more insidious than that. For those unfamiliar with Groundhog Day, part of the plot revolves around a man named Phil stalking a woman named Rita via a repeating time loop. Phil leverages this loop to surreptitiously gather personal details about Rita’s life and then uses that info to try and woo her. There's a scene early in the movie where Phil asks Rita what her "ideal man" would be like and she tells him. Initially he ignores what she says she wants and instead tries to trick her into sleeping with him. This tactic doesn’t work and leads to a series of harsh rejections. During his stalking, Phil realizes he’s actually in love with Rita. So next he tries telling her the truth about the time loop. To prove it he reveals very personal details about her life which he learned through stalking. This “I’m a god” scene is framed as sweet and romantic. Inspired by his newfound love for Rita, Phil decides to use the time loop to improve himself. And, as I say in my video, he does legitimately become a better person. Ok great. But let’s take a closer look at the specifics of Phil's transformation. The better person Phil becomes is almost exactly the “ideal man” Rita describes at the start of the movie. Right down to learning to play a musical instrument which is one of her requirements. He also learns to genuinely appreciate French poetry (her major in college). On the last day of the time loop we see Phil embodying Rita’s "ideal man." He acts in selfless ways, he cares about others, he plays a musical instrument and so on. And she is of course attracted to him for these reasons. On that last day Phil carves a perfect Ice sculpture of Rita’s face. She asks how he did it. He responds “I know your face so well I could have done it with my eyes closed.” Again we see his surreptitiously acquired personal knowledge about her being framed as super romantic. I'd argue that Groundhog Day frames the surreptitious gathering of personal details as negative when Phil uses it to try to trick her into sleeping with him (PUA style) BUT the movie then frames it as really sweet when that info is used for gestures of "true love." In the end, Groundhog Day is a movie about a woman who says "no" dozens of times and a man who refuses to take that “no" for an answer, and then, by genuinely becoming her "perfect man," he finally wins her over. As I say in my video essay, I really like Groundhog Day. It’s a clever and entertaining movie. It just doesn’t get a pass on its use of stalking behavior.

@wojtsen89

6 жыл бұрын

I agree with you on your analysis of Groundhog Day trope. What I don't like about your comment (and what sounds a little hurtful) is that you imply that many members of your audience make their objections not "in good faith". I hope the first two sentences of your post are just not precise and not coming from an assumption that people not agreeing with you at times do that for some malicious reasons. Except ever-present trolls, I think anyone who raises an argument here and explains it (regardless if it is about Groundhog Day or not), does it because they care about what you're doing here.

@PopCultureDetective

6 жыл бұрын

I get a lot of alt-right and MRA trolls. That's what I'm talking about there. The people who attack me for everything no matter what I say. I usually don't approve their comments because they are nearly always made in bad-faith.

@wojtsen89

6 жыл бұрын

Got it - thanks for the clarification.

@stephanieetm

6 жыл бұрын

Just wondering what your thoughts are on 50 Shades of Grey? I've never seen the movie but was completely horrified reading the book - it is based on Twilight (which you include here), so I'm wondering if the film version is just as problematic as the book.

@mazzolajewelleryandgallery2100

6 жыл бұрын

I thought it was a good example because it shows that stalking as love films can be quite sophisticated and aren't always as obvious as your typical stalking as love films

Growing up, I would cringe everytime one of those grand public gestures came up in a movie or show. Sometimes I would even leave the room. My parents always thought it was pre-teen awkwardness around romance in general, but I was absolutely terrified of when it would happen to me; not if, when. Because it was that common. I put off dating for a long time because I was scared my partner would make a large public ordeal over our relationship and I would be effectively trapped in plain sight under the scrutiny of a bunch of strangers. I still get squeamish when I think about it. Thanks for addressing how gross this trope is, and how it can have real world consequences.

I feel like Crazy Ex Girlfriend does play into the trope of girl stalkers being crazy, but the show as a whole tends to try to flip romcom tropes on its head. I think it meant to show romantic stalking in general as decidedly not romantic, and it never shies away from showing the consequences of being such an emotionally manipulative person (to the victim of the stalking and to everyone else in the perpetrator's life) I just find it hard to lump that show specifically to every other example used. Video was amazing however

I've been stalked and the amount of people saying "he's just awkward :( be friends with him! give him a chance!" is unreal.

I had a guy who was smitten with me when I was in my late teens. He took this trope to its logical conclusion and 'stalked' me (kept showing up at my work, coming to my house, etc.). He thought it would woo me, but all it did was send up enormous red flags (i.e., this guy doesn't understand social cues/boundaries/etc. and is crossing into creepy territory). I think this also plays into the issue where men can't take no for an answer and lash out as a result. Hey men... ever wonder why women give you fake numbers or tell you they have a boyfriend? Because simply telling you they aren't interested is often received with either an attempt to persuade, or flat out anger and sometimes violence. It's scary. So we lie to get out of the uncomfortable situation.

As someone who has had to take serious matters into distancing a stalker, THANK YOU for the work you put into these videos. Stalking is a very real and scary phenomenon for the person on the receiving end. And something that a lot of people scoff at the severity of. You share a voice that so many people need to hear, and it's appreciated in every video! ☆ thank you

A good exemple of showing a creepy stalker as he is is maybe Killgrave, in Netflix's Jessica Jones. Boy, he's completelly dellusional and you clearly see the damage on Jessica, that he makes her sick. It's not picture as a romantic behavior but as a sick and twisted one, no doubt. The movies' idealisation of "stalking for love" always bother me, but when I try to talk about it, people always say that I'm overreacting. Arf... And that's the same thing with predatory romance, etc. Keep making such intelligent analysis, that's always a pleasure !

There are a lot of comments that talk about this channel "ruining" movies for them (mostly jokingly). I feel like this is a good time to say that it is ok to enjoy movies with these kinds of flaws and socially problematic tropes. As critically thinking humans, we can acknowledge the fact that a movie uses tropes and characterization that contribute to damaging social norms while also appreciating its more positive aspects (plot, cinematography, themes etc).

@EmilieLeTrangere

6 жыл бұрын

I completely agree. Be conscientious of harmful ideas that some tropes perpetuate. If it weeds out some of the things you consume, then it's probably not worth consuming them. But it doesn't mean stories or characters you love are ruined forever per se. My heart sank at "Big Fish" because it's my favorite Burton film and I'd honestly never noticed it as stalking until this analysis pointed it out. But in the case of the fantasy aspect of the film, it's not ruined for me because we're given some ambiguity in the actual stories and details of the main character. It's up to the audience interpretation to look back on the stories he told and understand that maybe his stories injected tropes that he did not actually commit. At least that's what I'll think because I love everything else about this film!

I actually experienced this as a teenager from 2 separate boys. I was told via the rest of the school in a giggling manner that the first (the son of one of my mums friends) had said "the silent predator always gets the prey" about me and the second had a quite open crush on me for my last 2 years of school and while he himself was respectful I was continually told by others his unrequited crush was 'so cute' and i was consistently pressured by others that I should give him a chance simply because hes 'a nice guy'. It eventually accumulated in me being pretty much forced into going to prom with him, something I was uncomfortable about and today its still a night I don't look back on fondly. As a lesbian when I look back I feel such overwhelming relief that I didn't (usually) give in to the pressures despite how uncomfortable I was. I still remember how I felt the first time I heard that 'prey' line though and I wish no girls would ever have to through this kind of thing.

Romantic stalking seems like an oxymoron.

This has to be my favorite channel. Which makes me sad that it takes time for new content. But they say quality takes time.

@Yukii0Shogo

6 жыл бұрын

Ell Salta Quality over quantity is always better. Worth the wait

@BrieCheese

6 жыл бұрын

I'm guessing that at the end of the video, he was saying that donating to patreon would help speed up the video making process. He says that he does this himself, so if he had more money, he might have more time to spend on video making, or he might get others to help. I feel like I'm plugging his patreon for him, but I guess if you're sad that it takes a while, then donating might be a good option.

I think the reason why it doesn't always jump out at us as predatory is that in a rom-com, we as the audience KNOW that the stalker has good intentions and doesn't want to hurt their person of interest, and we're also often showed that the person is often secretly flattered by it. So it's easy to not see it as predatory. In a drama or hell, in real life, we absolutely don't see it that way.

I always love it when someone uses Gomez and Morticia as an example of doing it right. They really are a relationship to aspire to

St Emlo’s Fire is the worst example of this trope. THE GUY IS AN ACTUAL STALKER! He barely even knew her, and he’s literally obsessed.

@toomuchinformation

6 жыл бұрын

Alexandria Olive I haven't seen it for a long time. Which characters are you referring to?

@toomuchinformation

6 жыл бұрын

Alexandria Olive Just seen that it was the Emilio Estevez character with Andie McDowell. I've probably seen lots of movies where stalking is so normalised, I hadn't even realised it, which is scary really

@KittyGoldPaint

6 жыл бұрын

Alexandria Olive Ugh, his character always bothered me growing up, especially with how hostile he would get with each encounter; as if she owed him anything! Then he finally leaves her alone after he forcefully kisses her, and drives away, feeling on top of the world, leaving her to question her judgement, about rejecting him. Barf 🙄

Excellent video as usual! I remember watching a suspenseful movie with my parents, and the main guy constantly watched his neighbor/friend/love interest from his window to hers. Later in the movie, he described to her her daily schedule and how she "grabs her doorknob" and all of her quirks that he sees when watching her and I commented on how creepy this was, and my parents claimed it shows how much he "cares about her" ugh

@PopCultureDetective

6 жыл бұрын

That sounds like Disturbia and that scenes is indeed super messed up.

This happened in Stranger Things. Jonathan stalked Nancy and even took photos of her while she was dressing. Then they end up as a couple. It's ridiculous.

I think there's also something to be said for the erotic thriller stalker trope, like in Swimfan or Fatal Attraction, where the woman goes mad because the man rejects her and her stalking behaviour becomes deadly. Interesting how this trope relies on women 'being unstable' or 'unable to control their emotions' and how they inevitably turn dangerously violent and almost kill the man in question, when in reality if stalking does turn violent, a man is more likely to be the perpetrator. Love your videos and I'd love to see one based on how film portrays women as 'mad' or 'hysterical'.