It's the groupset battle of the century, can there be only one winner? Which would you choose? Let us know in the comments!!!

@hogdog567

4 жыл бұрын

BikeRadar SRAM for me, wireless is a big bonus.

@fernandoroman6494

4 жыл бұрын

If you go by retail price, Force axs should be put head to head with Dura ace di2.

@cottoneyejoe663

4 жыл бұрын

When i was building my bike i was thinking to get a sram etap or a di2. In the end i did the same what you said and bought a r9100 and i could not been happier with that 😁😁😁

@quwers

4 жыл бұрын

@@fernandoroman6494 Dura Ace is £3k retail but Force is £2.3k.

@lieblingsleguan1591

4 жыл бұрын

Nice Review, but there is one thing that was missing: How well is the SRAM front derailleur working in terms of its "yaw" property? Afaik, there is no auto trim like on Di2 front derailleurs and I have always been very unimpressed by mechanical SRAM yaw derailleurs. Also, an important point about pricing imo is that you can buy an Ultegra Di2 Upgrade Kit for around a 1000€ which you can then combine with your favorite crank/PM, rotors and cassette. Also, the prices for Ultegra chains and cassettes seem to be lower than AXS and you could even lower that further because of the compatibility to 105. Cost of wearing parts should be part of the comparison.

As you were talking about AXS gearing makes everything smaller, it threw a switch in my memory when I used to work for the Japan Group back in the early 80s. Back then I was a Cat-1 and Shimano was on fire trying anything and everything for road and would often give me prototypes to test. Then came the shocker of all time, I was once given a very secret & very complete 10mm chain pitch Grupo for me to test. It was the craziest thing you ever saw. Everything was miniature as if it belonged in a large Doll House. The performance was awesome and it was super Lt/Wt. If I can remember correctly it had 9 cogs at the rear! Keep in mind at that time 7 cogs was out of this world tech. You should do some investigative work with Shimano to ask if that prototype is still around, maybe in their secret museum?? GOOD LUCK, and it did exist.

Kudos for a well researched piece. I'm happy with my Ultegra di2, I still get that rush when the front mech is dropping the chain from the big plateau to the smaller one. It quite simply works flawlessly.

I got the SRAM Force groupset and updated to the Red crankset just for the finish. I love the sequential shifting

@lookpro.rideslow

3 жыл бұрын

It’s amazing! I feel bad for all my mechanical shifting bikes. They have been used few and far between since I purchased my SuperSix eTap

A+ presentation in every respect and I am a critical sob.

@bikeradar

4 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear you liked the video and thanks for watching!

@johnsmith1474

4 жыл бұрын

@@bikeradar - It was perfect, from the low key precision presenter, to the full body of data, to the clear and full production, could not be better. No grinning idiot pretty boy, no promo, even a useful surprise ending. I really wonder how the hell it passed the jackasses who invariably turn everything into pop crap because they have kids and salesmen whispering in their ear.

@scottc9630

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnsmith1474 excellent comment. I am getting back into riding and the tech out there is amazing. Videos like this help educate riders, especially reborn riders, with the cool products out the. I agree too many egos and flashy reviewers trying the look at me tactic

I have just moved from Campag Chorus 11 speed to SRAM Force eTap 12 speed. The changing is even smoother with Etap but what is being missed from these reviews is the wider gearing options and smaller increments offered by the SRAM. That is my no 1 benefit and is highly recommended. It makes 50-34 and 32-11 seem old fashioned!

@povertyspec9651

11 ай бұрын

My condolences

With Shimano Di2 you could even mimic Sram shifting by programming the lever buttons: The buttons on the right shifter shift into a higher gear and the buttons on the left shifter shift into a lower gear. Synchroshift shifts the front derailleur. This is a really good solution if you're wearing thick gloves.

@dshvvcjbdsykgj

4 жыл бұрын

This^ Did just this for winter riding here in the U.S. north east wet winters, super customizable and easy

@alicenchainrings1326

4 жыл бұрын

With di2 you also get buttons on top of the shifter hoods to program to whatever you want. Mine are programmed to go through the different screens on my garmin, cause nothing is more frustrating than trying to swipe left after you’ve dripped sweat all over your computer screen

@Ikkei-4444

3 жыл бұрын

@@dshvvcjbdsykgj then just buy sram lmao

@dshvvcjbdsykgj

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ikkei-4444 if those sram hydro shifters weren’t so awful in the hand I would.....also DOT fluid is not ideal vs mineral oil

Thanks for the review. I got a new bike with Ultegra Di2. Essentially, it is my first new bike in years and there is so much "new" on it. Disk brakes, areo bars, tubeless tires, road bike suspension, new pedals, new fit. The shifting pattern of the Ultegra is just one less thing that is new to me. All my bikes have Shimano shifters, Dura Ace, Ultegra, and 105.

Never had a Di2, but with the experience I had with my SRAM Force AXS on my new ORBEA (my first electronic groupset) only Shimano can be the winner. FD setup is a nightmare and it's matter of nanometers between success and failure. You can read about chain drops everywhere. SRAMs regular answer: check the setup. Well, there must be a lot of incompetence in the bike shops if it's only a setup thing and not a design issue or fail. The noise of the FORCE cassette is also something to mention (I did a swap with a RED cassette to get rid of the noise). The newest thing I read about: ghost shifting of the RD. Since I own the FORCE with the AXS Powermeter it will not be cheap to do a swap with anything from Shimano. I really wait for the wireless Dura-Ace. Meanwhile I have to live with the Force AXS. BTW: I know that there are people without any issues not paid by SRAM, but there are also a lot of people with issues. So it's a QA thing.

@darrenbarlow5759

3 жыл бұрын

Has it resolved itself? I'm going for a test ride on a tarmac with di2 tomorrow..I also have a quote for a build of a Factor 02 that will be built with SRAM AXS but I have some concerns with chain drops. Help! Lol

Fantastic comparison & video in general, thanks!

Great and balanced review. I already use Red E-tap with hydraulic disc brakes from previously using Ultegra Di2. I prefer the E-tap for the inter-changeable batteries, the simplicity and innovation of wireless and the intuitive shifting. But so much better if your Garmin can read the E-tap signals and status so you can monitor the batteries. When the shifter batteries die, it get really awkward getting home. But you can get off and shift by buttons on the derailleurs themselves.

“Visual weigh to the front end”. Great summation. Applicable to many hydraulic shifters. No issue with that, just liking your articulate summation. 😁

Just a note, if someone was upgrading to AXS they would also need to check their wheels can fit an XDR driver otherwise that'll be another fairly hefty investment.

@garethhelliwell9736

4 жыл бұрын

Depends on what wheels you have. It could be just a case of changing the cassette body.

@leedorney

4 жыл бұрын

@@garethhelliwell9736 If you've cheap wheels you've no chance!

@downinla4076

4 жыл бұрын

As long as you do not have Shimano wheels, most of the major brands offer freehub body replacements. In the US, the prices range from $100 to $180. I am sure as time passes, 3rd parties will release 12 speed cassettes for the Shimano Freehubs just like they did for the MTB range. Though obviously you will not get a 10 speed cog .

@jsclimber91

4 жыл бұрын

@@leedorney don't know anyone with cheap wheels and buying a AXS groupset...

@11robotics

4 жыл бұрын

@@jsclimber91 you'd be surprised. I've seen quite a lot of people buying bikes with Ultegra Di2 and Aksium wheels or even worse.

Never discussed was responsiveness of the two systems. I spent a lot of time riding both, and Di2 is the clear winner, which trumps all other criteria such as cost, weight, appearance, connectivity, etc. Di2 is instantaneous and Sram is sluggish by comparison. Performance is primary and other factors - even in an accumulative mode - are secondary.

@royevans4581

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for that info. Len. I went for Di2 and now glad I did. Bits come next week. Cannot wait to try it out.

@crzjpn3071

2 жыл бұрын

Not really. I went from Di2 to sram red axs. Much more precise, accurate and the appearance is far more than the current dura ace. Perhaps you had a faulty unit

@jakec1483

2 жыл бұрын

Why you mad? 🤣🤣

SRAM For me! I retrofitted both my Venge and C-59 with this group and was so thrilled! Shimano is still in the 20th Century. My Force ETAP AXS with rim brakes is dreamy and for me is the hands down winner, especially with my blips under the bars! NO CONTEST. Ps. I AM IN LOVE WITH THE 12 speed, especially since I upgraded from old Dura Ace 10 speed.

thanks for the video very very helpful, and easy to listen to, thanks again. I already had ultegra maniacal group set on my tcr and just bought from Merlin cycles the Di2 upgrade, so sifters wiring & derailleurs for 999, so thats me sorted after bike shop has installed it as wanted to get away from cables... having said that after watching your review id go sram next time, as its much easier to work with by sounds of it, and the fact you can do adjustments on the phone is a massive bonus!! not to mention the other stuff its a winner for me.!

Great review, perhaps one additional element I would add to the mix is the costs of spare parts and replacements. Particularly the costs of new chain and cassette, which everyone will have to swap every year or so (depending on your riding habits) , and which could build up to a significan cost difference between the two over just a few years of riding one set vs annother. I'd say in that respect perhaps Ultegra offers the best value for money, more so in the long run.

@casualguy393

2 жыл бұрын

Good point Juan. This is good information people should take into account. I take meticulous care of my chain and rarely ride in the rain so I get about 20,000km on my chains before needing replacement.

Seems like just last year I changed out the down tube friction shifters for click shifters! - and now THIS!

Hi, I've Ultegra 6870 installed on a Cervelo R5 and on my TT bike I recently installed the Ultegra 6770. So I know very well the feeling of shifting and it's really fast in every condition. I was surprised about wireless groupset. I read a lot about it, installation, setup, etc. but when I tried the Etap Red, I was surprised because there is a gap from shifting and changing of the cogs. Really. Ultegra/Dura-ace are quicker. The explanation is because It is wireless, so without a cable take "time". Than the battery has a 1000 km lifetime before charging. For me it's a peaty. In the comparing test Sram looks like too much "exclusive", that's cool, but if you need to replace something during the lifetime needs more extra. With Ultegra you can replace a lot and you don't need specific parts. Chain, cassette, cogs or chain rings are available from 105 if you want to spend less or with third manufacturers. Also the difference with Top groupset to the lower. Shimano design an own identity for each groupset. Sram don't consider this aspect relevant. So I consider overall Shimano, the best. Ciao Davide

You can also sync your groupset to your bike computer which will then tell you when either battery (cell batteries in the shifters or derailleur batteries) are running low, and prompts you to change/ charge them. I run the older generation SRAM Red E-tap, and the ability to swap out batteries has saved my skin in numerous occasions.

I had Sram Force Etap Axs on new bike from May 6th till August 17th 2020. In those three months I had to send a noisy cassette back to Sram. They returned it with stealth rings between three sprockets. This didn't help. I waited 4.5 weeks for a new cassette from them. In that time I just rode on the noisy cassette. To be fair it must have "bedded" in as the noise went away.. The new cassette came but I didn't put it on as old one was quiet enough.. On the 17th of August the inner chairing came of the chainset as I changed down from the big ring at speed. This resulted in me almost crashing.. I have returned bike to LBS as they said this just isn't good enough.. New bike will have Shimano like all my previous bikes.. I loved Sram Force Etap Axs. The simplicity, the shifting was sublime, the 48x35 28x10 ratio was fantastic. But I now couldn't go back. Even the chainset seems plastic an flimsy.. 👍

I’m buying Ultegra Di2, my story... I’ve got a Dura Ace 7900 rim brake bike, but I have blazing hot summers, rainy winters, and long, steep descents on sketchy roads. I can now get a disc bike at the same weight, so I’m moving to discs for safety. There are days when I ride climbs on my 22 lb. disc bike over my 16 lb. rim bike, due to weather. One rainy day on rims, I almost rolled into a speeding truck. And on a 110 degree day, I worry about delaminating my carbon rims. Screw that! I’ve ordered an Orbea OMX frame. And I’m going with Ultegra Di2. Why? Price, weight, better brakes (you forgot to mention mineral oil vs. DOT fluid), one long-life battery, better finish, nicer hoods, and no 10-tooth ring. (Bigger gears are more efficient.) I don’t really notice the difference between my current 10-speed Dura Ace setup and the 11 gears of my 105 bike, so I have no heartburn about not getting 12 speeds. The OMX frame has a Di2 port and integrated stem, so the Ultegra setup will look nearly as clean as a wireless system. Yeah, I’ll have the wire in the back, but I won’t have that bulky battery. Frankly, I can’t imagine missing any feature with Ultegra over Force. My only regret is timing. I expect the Dura Ace 9270 system to be a real step up. Shimano is an important Japanese brand and I expect them to make waves for the 2020 Olympics. Once the Dura Ace 9720 is available, I might just have a low-mileage Ultegra 8070 group set for sale.

@tomkunich9401

4 жыл бұрын

I'm setting up a Trek Emonda and live in the San Francisco Bay Area. We rarely ride in the rain and I don't find the feel of disks to be that good. And they're so powerful that you can inadvertently lock the brakes if you're feathering them and hit a pothole. I went over the bars of my CX bike and this is quite a real danger for a performance rider. We seen Grand Tour riders locking brakes and crashing which was pretty rare with rim brakes. If the best riders are making these mistakes you have to take the danger seriously.

@JonFairhurst

4 жыл бұрын

But... mountain bikes all use discs - and they go over surfaces rougher than potholes continuously. Next...

on a side note, I'm glad to see Orbea bikes being featured on yours and other European KZread cycling channels. You barely hear about them from the American channels.

Comprehensive review. I was totally educated. Thank you.

Very detailed, well done :)

Really helpful, made me realise my mechanical Ultegra is still fantastic, I just need to readjust my front derailleur rather than dropping £2K on a new groupset 😂

Excellent and informative. Thanks for your good reporting

Great review - I was an Ultegra one trick pony for my road bike, but you've made me consider SRAM (which I have on my mtb and love)

I went with sram and am so happy with it's simplicity and functionality. My batteries last about 2 months @ 75-100 miles a week between charges.

Brilliant - that told me everything that I'd not learned from watch in gmany other videos - well done !!!

Very interested in SRAM force Etap. Think that's gonna be the component on my next bike.

I went with Ultegra manual this year primarily because of price and also because electronic isn't a necessity for me. Great review, tho.

Sitting on the fence after this review? Go with the Shimano. It works better and it's safer. The Shimano shifts faster than the Sram-- noticeably faster. You might be surprised how much this matters to even weekend warriors. The Shimano is quieter and feels much more precise. If you want to hear a clunk, go for the Sram. If you want to hear stuff around you, go for the Shimano. The Shimano is so quiet that when you are shifting, you don't always hear that the bike has changed gears. But, you can sure feel it when the shift happens. I like that SRAM is wireless, but typically you only build a bike once. And, I have only had to change 1 Shimano electrical component in over 10 yers of Riding-- a $30.00 junction box in the bottom bracket. I had a lot of miles on that bike, had it out in the rain a lot, and rode it hard. So, I cleaned up the bottom bracket while we were in there. Shimano does a great job tolerating cross-chaining. Not that you should be doing that, but some of us have bad habits sometimes, and Shimano has factored that in. Sram? Not so much. If you are anywhere close to the wrong combination front/rear, you will know it because the Sram will grind like Hell. Safety-- I have ridden more than 10,000 miles on Di2. During that time, I dropped the chain on the front ring twice. On the Sram, I rode it for 20 miles and I dropped the chain on the front ring twice. That's right-- Shimano-- one dropped chain every 5,000 miles. Sram-- one dropped chain every 10 miles. And, this was after I had the brand new Sram equipped bike serviced by 2 different Sram dealers, and had the Sram dealer service manger work with the shop trying to get my bike right. Ultimately, I had the choice of incredibly loud grinding in the top three gears-- while riding in the bottom ring up front. Or, I could eliminate the noise and have the chain drop off the front ring every 10 miles. It took me 50 miles to decide to sell the Sram equipped bike out of concern for my safety. And, I took a huge financial hit in doing so. I think the first shop I went to summed it up best.... If you have ever ridden Di2, you are never going to be happy with any Sram electronic shifting. If you have never ridden a bike with electronic shifting, then it might be OK. Ride safe :)

@yonglingng5640

4 жыл бұрын

I once tried SRAM Force eTap AXS after trying out Shimano Ultegra Di2 R8070 and wow, I was disappointed in the delay between shift input and output, worse for the front derailleur!

Very good review - thank you. Still undecided!

I just up graded my Ultegra R8000 to Di2 R8050 , love it..

One significant point you don't mention: With SRAM, you can't use your previous 11 speed cassettes and your previous wheels will have to be modified for XD-R, if that is even possible. Ultegra is backwards compatible saving a lot of expense if you have existing components.

@konaosiris

3 жыл бұрын

Which is a good thing as the Sram cassette body (tend) to be much lighter.

@FreeMTrider

2 жыл бұрын

Just about EVERY 11 speed hub can fit an XD-R. That was figured out years ago on MTBs.

@casualguy393

2 жыл бұрын

Good point Ilan. But I am glad to hear that that many 11-speed hubs can fit an XD-R. Luckily for me, I am in the market for a new rear wheel so this is not an issue for me.

@treadtyred9742

Жыл бұрын

And existing components is why if you buy a bike with a Shimano groupset it will be cheaper than one with SRAM. I'm sure Shimano drop the price a lot more than SRAM for bike manufacturers just so they get repeat custom from the owners of this bikes.

I always like your videos Matthew. Subtle to the punch points and personal choices. Shimano weight listing for instance. But it all comes down to need, wants or desires. No one chooses the first and makes all kinds of reasons for the second and third.

Excellent review of both groupsets and video as well. I reckon if money is not a problem you should go for what you think is best suited for your riding style. Personally, I am a bit confused between the two sets. I have to touch, ride and feel both and make my decision. Looking at putting a groupset on a Giant TCR Pro1. Thank you once again for the review. Ciao.

the best reviewer I've come across. If only there was an option that ticked all the boxes! i.e. something thank looked like ultegra di2 but was as easy and connective as sram!

I have sram force axs 1x with eagle components on my gravel bike. My dealer made me a good deal with taking the original sram rival set so biting the bullet was easier. Grx wasn't available and I wanted 1x with at least a 48 in the back I'm very happy, no problems with brake noise until now and they brake more than good enough for me. Haven't encountered anything that I don't like until now I'm sure Shimano di2 owners are just as happy like me. You can't really go wrong with these 2 options, marginal gains maybe depending on your situation best is to test them yourself before spending such an amount of money.

I ride a rim brake bike with Ultegra Di2 and a disc brake one with Force. As said in the video, both are great, but if I have to choose one, no doubt it will be the SRAM. The only two buttons system is way simpler, no cables whatsoever and the shape of the chain looks way better. The disc brake bike has integrated discs hoses, so the look is complete clean. While it weights more than the rim brake, it looks astonishing.

Built up a bunch of bikes with both and my hands down choice is Sram, build up is super simple, no delicate little wires to get damaged, or rattle in the frame. Batteries are small and light and not expensive so it's easy to have a spare, you can get 5 of them for the cost of a Di2 battery. You can shift it with gloves on, the brakes have better modulation. No extra cost just to get bluetooth and the app is super simple to use to change settings or update firmware. The $300 cost savings for Di2 goes away when you need a replacement battery and if you want bluetooth, not to mention if your not building it yourself your shop will most likely charge you more to build up a di2 vs etap bike just due to the labor time.

Rim brakes stopped working the moment I tried disc brakes for the first time.

@raphaelkoikoi3066

4 жыл бұрын

LOL!

@justinbutler3465

3 жыл бұрын

I just went back to a rim break setup and for a second I thought the brakes weren't working! Lol

Great review - well made. Now I know that I can make up my decision for my new bike (Trek or Specialised in my case) based on the colour of the frame ..... or maybe the price 🙃 - both groups seem to be excellent. Thx!

Great comparison video, thanks! I think you forget to mention about the wide availability of Shimano and it’s compatibility with mechanical parts, whereas in case of SRAM AXS it’s a completely new groupset and doesn’t even compatible with any other from SRAM family!

@einundsiebenziger5488

3 жыл бұрын

... its* compatibility (it's = it is) ... isn't* even compatible ...

personally i ride red etap, older one. had an oppurtunity to ride ultegra di2 r8000 and i feel like its shifts more smoothly, but i'm a sucker for clean look and wireless is just the way to go.

@willinoysitorus1509

3 жыл бұрын

not only clean look. but u dont have to think aboit shifting, its so smooth hehehe

THanks for the video. Great information and very in-depth.

@bikeradar

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching, from your friends at BikeRadar!

I have the di2 and love it - have SRAM Red mech in another bike and love that too - haven’t ridden etap or axis - excellent overview thx - think I like the look, simplicity and price of di2 better

Great review, and I appreciate all the comments regarding XDr wheel fitment. One aspect I wish you would have covered however is group set noise. From what I've researched SRAM has had quite a lot of complaints on how noisy it is. So much so, apparently there's been cassette replacements and design revisions by the company. It's an attractive group set, but a steep price tag for potential cassette issues, noise, and wheel fitment. Cheers bruh

You're a LEGEND mate! Thank you.

Thank you very much for this excellent comparison between these two groupsets. I have both of these electronic groupsets in use in my rental fleet in Girona/Spain and I completely agree with all the points mentioned in this video. Simply put, these groups are fantastic! Here are some observations that I hope will be helpful for those choosing between these two groups. Please note that I have two full seasons of experience with Ultegra R8070 Di2 and only two months' experience with the SRAM Force AXS. So, I am much more aware of the very few downsides of the Shimano group. I will know more about the weaknesses of SRAM Force eTap AXS by the end of 2020. Here is what I would like to add about SRAM: 1. Wireless system: A very positive surprise was just how flawless the SRAM AXS wireless connectivity works - so far no fuss whatsoever, even when setting up and using 12 bikes in close proximity. 2. One crank with many options: The flexibility of the SRAM Force crank is a big plus. On my 3T Exploro bikes, I can change the same crank from a 1x to a 2x set up. The compatibility with the Eagle groupset adds much flexibility! And, the same crank also accepts the Quark power meter. 3. One rear derailleur for all gears: This is a big plus, as I had to purchase many additional medium cage Ultegra derailleurs to give our clients wider gear choices (11-34). So for me, this flexibility makes up the extra price of the SRAM components. 4. Batteries: while the downsides of the SRAM are well described in the comments, one plus of the SRAM batteries ist that I don't need to charge the bikes in the garage with many long extension cables. Instead, I can bring the batteries to one central charging station. Also, I can easily carry and exchange spare batteries on the go. 5. The SRAM accessories, such as the bleeding kit and the brake spacers for transportation are much better designed than their somewhat flimsy Shimano counterparts. 6. An open question remains if the serviceability and longevity of the SRAM Force components will live up to the very high standard set by Shimano Ultegra. I have been running Ultegra equipped rental bikes for more than 15 years and remain extremely satisfied! Three complaints I do have about Shimano Ultegra Di2 8070: 1. One downside of Shimano cables: We regularly experience that someone pinches and cuts the cable when inserting the seat tube into the frame. This is annoying, expensive and time-consuming. 2. The one button on the junction box (EW-RS910) does not have a well-defined actuation point-this component is clearly far below the quality of the shifting actuators. Worse, the multiple functions of this one button are often confused by cyclists: The micro-adjust-mode can be initiated unintentionally, which then can lead to badly adjusted gears. Explaining the functions of this one button to a first time user is far too complicated. 3. The wireless unit (EW-WU111) is always a hassle to connect to the phone for service updates. It takes too long to connect. These complaints aside, the Shimano Ultegra Di2 8070 is the best groupset I have ever used and I personally narrowly prefer it over SRAM Force. The great news is that we are very, very close to perfection with both of these groupsets!

@filipsoltys5504

4 жыл бұрын

i've heard of torn/broken wires being fairly common with rental fleets. I imagine they get moved and abused a lot in their lifetime.

@alivenesscyclingroadcyclin2673

4 жыл бұрын

Filip Soltys We have only problems with the seat tube insertion. But of course this depends on how exposed the cables are on the bike. We attach the one cable going from the bars to the frame firmly to the brake hose, then it is unlikely to get snagged and pulled by something. The old style junction boxes under the stem caused much more problems with the cables. It was easy to accidentally pull one of those cables.

@stuartdryer1352

4 жыл бұрын

I agree about the feel of the button on the Shimano junction box, and it is true for both the bar end version and the stem mounted vrrsion. That is one thing I wish they would improve. It is almost never something that matters. Other than that I have no complaint. Shimano stuff simply works. I'm not going to switch to Sram.

@mikicastan

4 жыл бұрын

Aliveness Cycling: Road Cycling Adventures I have 4 di2 systems running in this moment(cx,mtb,road,2x/1x...)so i can confirm confusion with junction box button. Especially in gloves. Ant/ble could be much better. Regarding the cables-i realy dont know how can be disconect accidentaly. If they are build and integrated nicely they are basicaly same as etap in that regards. Overall,di2 is best shifting system for bikes in this moment

Sram Red AXS is my choice. Sure expensive, but bling, easy to use, easy setup, easy connectivity, 12 speed. Works for me. Quite sure the next Dura Ace will also be 12-speed.

Not sure what it is but I love the way you say "levers"

That was a fantastic comparison video

Awesome video, very great information and breakdown

Very informative and well presented video. Thank you very much! I buy mechanical sram force with hydraulic rim brakes, exeptfor the crankset, which will be rotor.

@bikeradar

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed the video from your friends at BikeRadar!

I have Ultegra DI 2, my first venture into electronic shifting. It works great but the connectivity issues INFURIATE me. I am an IOS and cannot adjust my bike via the computer and I REFUSE to spend any more money on the bluetooth dongle. Part of the reason is the horrific reviews people give the e tube app. Shimano REALLy needs to get their shit together. It really is surprising given the high quality of their parts.

@talonlan

4 жыл бұрын

The E tube app only gets bad reviews when it comes to upgrading the software over wireless due to dropped signals. For setting buttons and stuff it is fine.

@Parak622

4 жыл бұрын

I have no problems with etube app or dongle, I bought second hand EW WU 101. Got it connected and changing the gear set up very often(trials) connected to Element bolt, I like it very convenient

What would I go for? Force 1x axs of course! Gets rid of the nasty front derailleur I only lose a little in terms of gear range (don't use my 11 tooth much anyway). I would then change my mind completely and say if i'm only shifting at the rear then a cabled system works really well and cost a bout a grand less. So Force 1x is the answer to all your dreams (as long as you don't mind replacing gear cables every year or so).

My next bike will likely have SRAM Red AXS. I've been a Campy lover for decades and considered its electronic option but SRAM's innovation sold me. They totally rewrote the approach to gearing and going wireless was brilliant. Perhaps, in the future, they'll do something similar with the hydraulic brakes by eliminating the hoses and instead incorporate wireless-operated master cylinders on each caliper.

@guyboycecam1636

3 жыл бұрын

Snap, I have done just the same moving from Campy all my cycling history to AXS. I love the new gear ratio options even more than the shifting!

So well explained!

Newbie cyclists here, I went from an old Shimano 105 5700 groupset to an Ultegra Di2 8070 and shifting is like night and day - amazing. No experience with SRAM grouppos yet.

Great video - kudos! SRAM wins the electronic group set competition, but Shimano wins the mechanical battle. One bike has Shimano Ultegra (Trek Madone) and the other (Trek Domane) has SRAM force - love them both!

Thanks, BikeRadar, for this comparison. And that's a funny thought, a bike freak explaining any of this to a random stranger on the street. "Pardon me, may I tell you about SRAM Force eTap AXS and Shimano Ultegra Di2?"

@alexfulton375

4 жыл бұрын

I also thought that the random stranger on the street isnt going to be looking at bikes with Udi2 or eTap AXS? They will be much more likely to want to know about Sora/Tiagra components that aren't nearly as expensive.

I have a rim brake dura ace 9100 setup which I just upgraded (??) to 9070 Di2. I really wanted to go with SRAM Red AXS but I would have had to throw away/sell pretty much all the really good components I have (Cranks, Chainrings, Casettes & Chains) and I just could not justify it. I really wanted the simplicity that SRAM wireless offered but AXS is also heavier than Dura Ace Di2 so in the end I picked up a good second hand 9070 set for 650 GBP (FD, RD, wires, shifters the lot) and it works really well. Fitting it is definitely more painful, but once its done, its done. I would have gone for a new SRAM Wifli system if I could get one but they discontinued them. Going forward there is a definite AXS or Shimano choice as the components are no longer cross compatible ... bummer. If your buying a new bike the choice is just down to money and preference, but upgrading is a lot trickier.

Great review. Much appreciated.

I've owned both (currently the Di2) and I must say the completely wireless setup with the Force ETap was very cool though I wasn't a fan of 12 speed. But I don't think you can go wrong as far as efficient shifting with both.

Nice review thanks.

Which groupset would I like??? I will stick with Campagnolo for as long as I can. Looks better and ergonomic is so much better (for me) Just wish I could afford a disc upgrade, but that will be the next new road bike I guess...

Realy good video!👍👍

I've always preferred the look of SRAM, especially on dark frame bikes... Subjective indeed. I'd take the SRAM every day, hence why I did. The 2x eTap is the best set on the market for the $$ IMO. I use it on a full carbon gravel setup, love it.

The Ultegra disc brakes are the best brakes I've ever used - they're better than the brakes on my mountain bike, and I've had Shimano SLX and Magura MT8s. I stopped myself dead on a -20% grade without locking up the front or the rear, or going OTB. They're like magic.

I have an 11 speed Sram Red eTap. Love it.

@leekresge1268

4 жыл бұрын

ditto

Great video! Ultegra for me, although I agree about mechanical Dura Ace given the option of the three 👍

Awesome vid mate

...■■■ Content is always top notch. My only suggestion would be to change from the white background when you are on camera as the contrast is too great. Anything BUT that bright white would be an improvement. Cheers.

I got SRAM Red Etap 11s shifter coin battery to run out at the top of mountain last year. Fortunately I also use Quarq Dzero so I could use its coin battery to swap shifter's. God.. You don't need to care about battery life for 1.5-2 years, but good to connect shifters to Garmin to periodically check the battery life..

I have the Ultegra and it is just perfect!!

Any issues with SRAM popping the chain off when moving to the big ring? I've heard it's an issue. Cheers

Very good comparison, thanks. What type of power meters compatible with a Sram Force? Any suggestions?

had a Canyon mechanical frame bike decided to make them electronic so only option was SRAM as the frame didn't have routing for the UDI2 not managing to get used to SRAM chain rings options (i'm used to 53/39 and 52/36 with 11/28 cassette) i sold them and got me a Canyon endorace UDI2 and very happy

Shimano Ultegra wins for me as it came on my Condor pre fitted. Not had any issues with it at all. My first 11 speed di2 set, loving it! Fist Shimano groupset ever. Switched from Campy. I love it tbh!

I’ve been a Shimano fan... but i want the new giant defy. It comes in mechanical ultegra or the etap. Kinda was hoping for DI2. So I’ve been wondering about a comparison just the other day then bam, you make this video as i want it, thanks!

I believe Shimano short cage only goes up to 11/30, not 11/32, however some do say you can fiddle with the b-screw to get an 11/32 to work, but it is better to get a long cage. Also, with the bluetooth adapter, Shimano will connect to your wahoo to show you which gear you are in and you can check the battery percentage. Great review

@CarbonRider1

4 жыл бұрын

@Matthew Loveridge hah. "thirty tooth". Yes, agreed, I run a 55/38 chainring on my TT bike, which works fine, other than a "thunk" you get now and then. It is mostly because I have a few TTs which have a climb through in and the 38 is needed.

Ultegra Di2. I have R8050 having come from SRAM mechanical. The hidden buttons, synchro shifting and configuration options make it a winner for me. I do my own builds and wiring it all up was an enjoyable part of the process.

Great review, so hard to choose. I prefer SRAM's shifter and simplicity but people say Di2 build quality is much higher. And where I am, SRAM service is like non-existent compared to Shimano. Ugh, first world problems.

I have XTR di2 on my mountian bike. I was blown away. My road bike has Ultegra di2, haven't ridden it yet. Should have the bike next week. Cant wait

@hahayea3702

3 жыл бұрын

How’d you like the di2

@rkwjunior2298

3 жыл бұрын

@@hahayea3702 love it, wouldn't want it any other way..

When I go electronic, I'm going with Sram. I like the synchro shifting since to this day I still don't get it right. I would do this on my aero bike. Besides, I favor the 1X system. This would go on my "Mountain Goat", I love the simplicity! Works great on my "Grocery Getter". I tend to forget the the smaller front gear & never use it since I never shift it right.

This is so great and informative video - thanks! I prefer mechanical Ultegra and spend the savings on some new wheels or CF-bikes instead!

"Weight will never be a reason to choose one over another" says no Weight weenie ever

@DaveCM

4 жыл бұрын

Weight weenie would go DA or Red

@trizvanov

4 жыл бұрын

That same weight weenie does 2 pints of strong one every Friday.

@Knowbody42

4 жыл бұрын

Weight weenies would spend $3000 to shave off 100 grams.

@djconnel

4 жыл бұрын

@@Knowbody42 Funny that the video would sincerely discuss phallic lever bulges as a factor in choosing, but dismisses carrying needless weight up hills as a consideration.

Haven’t used Force AXS yet, but I have used Red eTap from last generation and the front shifting was always something you had to be careful with, and the batteries were a pain in the ass as they discharge at a separate rate, they can also only be charged one at a time. I did however much prefer the simplicity of the shift “pattern”. So much so that my DI2 is now set to mimic it with “Up” on the right and “down” on the left, big lever for RD and forward button for FD. I currently ride Dura Ace 9170, and although building it was notably a bigger pain in the ass, once initial setup is done it’s flawless, I plug the bike in to a portable cell phone power bank once every few months over night, and it’s not failed me yet. An interesting note, I have once had a dead battery at the beginning of a 100 mile ride, as a result of transporting the bike with the shifter button accidentally pressed. I was able to tape the cell phone power bank to my bars and plug it into my bar end junction box and simultaneously ride while the system charges.

@MrBJPitt

4 жыл бұрын

Good point about power bank, I ride with a power bank for the phone already, so this pretty much nullifies the argument that forgetting to charge di2 is a big deal.

@RyonBeachner

4 жыл бұрын

MrBJPitt yes, but you’d have to also have the DI2 charger with you, which is proprietary. I’d say I simply got lucky. 😅

@MrBJPitt

4 жыл бұрын

@@RyonBeachner ah, well yeah that's a catch

I prefer the wired Shimano group to the SRAM group. I do not like the idea of having to charge multiple batteries and additionally swap batteries.

I am 100% a Sram guy yet I never rode an electronic group set. The major differences I had with the 10 speed mechanical is how abrupt shifting is with Sram and how ridiculously smoother Shimanio compared, Sram on the other hand is so much lighter however Sram rear cogs and front derailleur is not as long lasting. I waited for Sram Electronic group set for what feels like eternity, then I waited more for Sram to get rid of any/all bugs out of the system. So my obvious preference is going to be Sram but I rather a 53 tooth gear ring up front.

If you want slower engagement, go with SRAM.

Great review, but do the BikeRadar folks ever get to ride in warm, sunny weather?

Can you do this same test with the mechanical versions of their groupsets? In 2x and 1x please.

Funny thing I have mechanical 11spd Dura Ace on my current bike and I am now “upgrading” my whole bike to one with Ultegra 12spd di2. I can get the equivalent new model bike with SRAM AXS for $1500 cheaper than the Shimano bike but due to the significant and many disappointments I have had with SRAM Red in the past there is no way I would ever trust SRAM again even at $1500 cheaper. From what I have found SRAM technology always promises a lot but the real world usage often falls short of expectations.

@gyyhghuiggij9319

Жыл бұрын

Is it easy for the SRAM to drop the front shift?

with etap, you should consider about changing a hub body for 12 speed cassete.

Question, could I use sram force axs groupset on a rim brake frame, if I use the hydraulic rim brake calipers offered in force 22?

I'm completely in the shimano camp for several reasons. You only have to mess with the wires once, at installation. One battery and I don't have to mess with it. Reliability, unpaired shifter much. Durability, we all know who wins there, sram has excellent customer service for a reason. Lever bodies and brake feel. Brake noise. Centerlock. No sram bb standard, been down that road. Flightdeck compatibility. Bartop cross levers. I can go on and on. I won't even talk about shift quality.

The SRAM groupset sounds great but clearly costs more. I have Ultegra Di2 on both my bikes, one rim, one disc. I've never regretted it. It works perfectly (although I recently had to replace a front derailleur, which was the older 6800 version). I use a laptop to interface, but pretty much never need to use it. Once its set up I dont change things. The one thing I could imagine is if I went from my usual 11-28 to, say, an 11-34 (maybe for a trip to the mountains). You have to go in and tell the system what cassette you are using, but that is easy to do with a Windiws laptop --assuming you have one available of course One thing nice about Shimano is you can also run KMC or YBN chains, and replacement cassettes can often be bought cheap on sale. Wheel compatibility is another plus, for now. SRAM use their own proprietary chain. If I was buying a new bike I honestly dont know which I would want (either way I dont build it myself). Even so I like the idea of a wireless system. On the other hand, very small cogs and chain rings as in SRAM require the chain to flex more and would be inherently less efficient. Riders stronger than I am might want to consider that.