Always a treat to hear from Speedy. His wealth of knowledge is incredible.

@mrcbrrr7484

Жыл бұрын

Ditto

@alanmeyers3957

6 ай бұрын

He’s the smartest fun guy in the world, lol.

Speedy is always smiling. Love the information, thank you.

Thank you both for all this knowledge you share with people you don't even know. I have just started reloading recently and progressed pretty fast due to the two of you. Thank you.

I tried this method recently with a slight modification. to avoid having to remove the barrel I hung the case on a 12" piece of 8lb mono-filament and dropped it in the chamber. works great.

@kenjaworski6237

11 ай бұрын

I used 50# braided fishing line with the primer removed. When the cartidge released from the rifle there was zero and I mean zero stickiness. And I thought I was the only one to think of this!!

@DadWil

11 ай бұрын

@@kenjaworski6237 I didn't have any braided handy good choice on your part. Reloaders are a creative lot

@colinkobel2868

3 ай бұрын

Great idea that I will try. Thanks

Enjoyed this very much. I have learned that I need to jam 0.020" to get my F-TR rifle to shoot. Fought a jump for a long time before I tried jamming and what a difference. Thanks very much for sharing.

What a wealth of knowledge! Thank you Speedy and Erik. I’m excited to test forward of this (touching) in a few barrels. As a hunter I won’t do a hard jam just because of the risks involved but going in like Speedy suggests that .006-.009 is definitely worth it. Doing this along with your tuner should be money

I have two new barrels coming in and I’m definitely going to be trying this method! Thanks to the both of you for another great video to help me in my quest for top accuracy! I’ve learned so much from this channel!

You two guys are the "Dynamic Duo" for fact filled videos. Thanks for sharing your experience with us regular Joes.

Well done and presented. Thanks!!

Good segment. Thank you!

Great to hear from Speedy, also an interesting tidbit on Weatherby at the end.

Awesome! Thanks for sharing! 👍🏼

I can get good groups seating long at, or just off, the lands. But I usually have to single feed to do that... I got tired of single feeding and decided to experiment with mag length. My best groups with that rifle came from jumping .182" Sometimes you just never know until you try.

That is what in the 1960s we called finding the PLUNK length. Finding PLUNK and working forward, or finding JAM and working rearwards is the same idea. Finding PLUNK is easy without removing the barrel. Just clamp the rifle vertically and drop the dummy round in the chamber, and lift it with a light weigh wooden dowel. It is very easy to feel when the bullet is not sticking. I usually find the best precision using a freebore type chamber somewhere between JAM and PLUNK, but not always. Often does not work on Mauser pattern throats where there is no tight freebore to help align the bullet to the bore.

@Michael-rg7mx

Жыл бұрын

What confuses me is the order to do things. You need to shoot a hundred through it before testing for the seating depth, right? Then to look for powder charge weight you need to have done seating depth testing first, right? It's a pressure nightmare to work up a maximum charge weight then start going from a jump to a jam.

@mikeruppert501

Жыл бұрын

Couple thoughts-you can map lands on a new barrel too, start with your accuracy load and seat deeper to look for better accuracy, and make sure you’re safely below max before testing longer rounds since pressure could get higher.

@ibanezrg320fm

Жыл бұрын

@@Michael-rg7mx Shoulder Bump first, powder ladder load second looking for best group, then seating depth.

@Michael-rg7mx

Жыл бұрын

@@ibanezrg320fm If the first step is sizing a fired case the real first step is fireforming, right? I guess that would break in the new barrel too?

@ibanezrg320fm

Жыл бұрын

@@Michael-rg7mx Yes sir! It kind of sucks that you should fire form first because you end up wasting the powder and bullet to be able to shoulder bump. What I do anyways is treat every single round as a test. ¹ Say I bought brand new never fired empty brass. Obviously I can't shoulder bump it because it is or should be SAAMI minimum specifications brass. So okay, I can make a test from this! You can at least make a ladder load test to see the accuracy that brand new brass will give you. And after your test if you see a node that does quite well, you could hand load the remaining brass and mess with bullet seating depth. This would be its own singular test because once you fireform that brass, you will introduce a new variable (space/air) and that will change the pressure. ²Once you have fireformed brass, you might as well start your test over because if the base of the case to the shoulder grows, it's a new variable that impact powder charge. If you think about it, seating depth will not change but since your shoulder is now further away from when it was new, you're introducing more internal case capacity, ie air. Not very much but trust me, it will affect your velocity. Depending on your rifles chamber dimensions, it is possible you might have to shoot that brass a couple times for it to fully form to your chamber. I learned all of this with my M1A. I did a test of first finding out what a load would do with new never fired brass. I load up a ladder load first to test what charge would cycle the bolt. Once I found the minimum amount of power to make this rifle cycle properly, I made that my starting powder charge. I shot all of those rounds to fire form the cases and next I intended to bump the shoulder back 2 thousandths but here's the thing I didn't know. The M1A is a battle rifle and so they made the chamber a little longer so that almost any sized case of the same cartridge would fit and fire because in war, you need that rifle to function so you don't get killed. Once fired brass does not fireform to the chamber. It took me 4-5 firings for that brass to finally stretch far enough that I could bump the shoulder back! So once I figured this out, I did a little test between minimum charge on new brass versus 5 times fired minimum charge brass. The result was +200fps!!! The only difference I made was shoulder bumping. Bullets remained the same, powder and charge remained the same, but base of the case to shoulder measurement was different. I introduced a large case capacity. Even though cartridge overall length remained the same, the fire forming and brass stretched at the shoulder increased x-amount of room that wasn't there before in new brass. It was a fun experiment to see what my velocity would do with new brass versus shoulder bumping and what a difference it made to my velocity! So that's why I say you will have to redo your powder charge on fire formed brass because that introduction of air changes the pressure which changes your velocity. However, you should pay attention to what the velocity is of new brass versus shoulder bumped. If say you found an accuracy node at 2700fps, it might be possible to find a new charge with shoulder bumped brass to get you 2700fps and remain a tack driver at that specific velocity. Not everyone is loading for a battle rifle like I am so it probably won't take you more than 1 or 2 firings. I use the same methods for my home built AR-15 chambered in 300 Blackout but that chamber is cut just a little more than SAAMI and only takes 1 or 2 firings.

Thanks for your work here on You Tube Erik. I just practice reloading for hunting purposes. I have a Winchester 70 in .264 Win Mag for “long” range shots and I’m planning to buy a Winchester semi in 30-06 for boar hunting. When I started I saw several videos, maybe 100. I founded good contents but also something that was totally anti-scientific and leading toward unconsistent practices. Then algoritm fortunately suggested “precision reloading its easy, you complicate it”, and then “stop chasing the lands”. I am happy for my subscription here, you produce great content. Sorry for my bad english and thank you again.

Great vid gentlemen! You guys make a great pair.

Speedy is a cool guy. Thanks for all the great information from a new reloader.

Thanks for the advice and the video, awesome stuff Men .

I sure do enjoy him talking. Speedy and Jack content is the best your channel has put out.

Late comment...but thanks to you both. I used it just today and its an amazing process! In fact with all of the Savage guys changing barrels I indicated to some that this should be part of their Pre-FIT barrel changes.

I never get tired of listening to Speedy’s logic.

Thank you gentlemen.

Great vid. Thanks guys

This is the same method I use and probably the most accurate. You don't have to pull the barrel to do this though. Use your pinky finger to shove the dummy round into the chamber against the shoulder and a cleaning rod from the muzzle. You can actually alternate pressure between your finger and cleaning rod to get a better feel for the "stick" of the bullet this way.

@ghostofcpast8893

Жыл бұрын

100% agree. I tested 18 /3 shot groups with Berger bullets and ALL my shots were within a .628 group. Some like being jumped .125" . I think accurately recording it when it's loaded is the important part

@torreyintahoe

Жыл бұрын

That's good advice! I was just thinking, this is cool but I'm not taking off my barrel.

Definitely need more information on the Weatherby freebies set. Very interesting to hear about.

Listening to 2 guys who have shot and experimented more than 99% of the world is always a learning experience.

Could listen to him all day Thks

It’s refreshing to hear someone that actually knows the subject being discussed say “i don’t know, i haven’t tested that” instead of just stating his opinion.

I have a terminus Zeus quick change action. This is going to be my go to method. So easy

Speedy(Tom)will not remember Julio, but we met @ I believe the 2001? FISS @ Kelby's range in N. Lawrence Ohio. I was on the #1 bench on maybe the 2nd round of the 100-yd competition. I had 4 in a bug hole, (potential world record .005-.006") and I threw the 5th out, one bullet hole. Went from hero to zero in one 1.5-ounce trigger touch. Unbeknownst to me, the likes of Walt Berger, Tony and Faye Boyer, Fred Hase Custer and Mr. Dowling, along with Speedy were standin behind me, waiting for the last sear break. I knew before I returned rifle to battery by the moans from that small, yet very well-tuned crowd behind me, that all was lost...OH, I think that Jim Carstensen may have been there as well. This was the first BR rifle I had ever had and was purchased from Jim, as he had won the LV Agg @ the 97 FISS with it. He COMPLETELY took me and a buddy of mine up under his wing, and for the next couple seasons, GLADLY showed us the ropes. NOTHING BUT the FINEST folks in this sport; NO OTHER SPORT COMPARES, in my book. Sincere thanks to you, Speedy, for the knowledge you freely bestowed upon us in your years. A legend and friend. We were both younger then, and much easier to look @ !!! Tight groups

I've used many techniques : looking for square marks on the bullets (Boyer), finishing so seat with the bolt, hornady gage etc. Since it's just to find a starting point for the seating depth, I prefer to seat a bullet with the bolt (finding the 'jam' instead of the 'touch'). It's the fastest and also really efficient (Erik's previous technique). I don't like to just look for the "touch" point because when doing so, you still don't know where is the absolute max cartridge length or jam (I don't want to spill any powder in the receiver during a match). The fastest method to find the bullet "touch" is to use a stoney point or hornady gage, it will be accurate only if you use a perfectly sized case for your chamber. Spending more time on this first stage won't prevent to make some tests on target, it's another reason why I prefer the easiest and fastest techniques.

I think a step that is commonly overlooked in finding seating depth has to do with chamber cleaning. I'd think there would be some debris in there that could throw your numbers off a bit. I will normally spin a chamber brush in my drill with my favorite bore cleaning solution. After doing this and running dry patches I'll run a couple of patches with an alcohol or acetone. Then blow out with compressed air. It is best to have a clean bore as well when blowing air into the chamber.

@mckimmym

Жыл бұрын

Erik cleans down to bare metal, every time, no matter what. ;)

Very interesting and informative. I remember when the had the partially seat a bullet and use a lighter or match to blacken your bullet. Seating the bullet deeper until the land don’t disturb the coating. This then gave you a coal for reference to not exceed.

Love the video!

Excellent video and Erik pointed out something that I rarely hear others talk about, is a long jump. And speedy called it, like shooting factory. Erik mentions the PRS shooters that talk about a long jump. In my opinion PRS shooters have the choice but will always shoot from a Magazine Vs single fed cartridges. So one has to basically has to work with the Magazine allowable length. Now with that said. From my personal experiance. I shoot a PRS style rifle but recently tried FTR. So I'm single feeding my cartridges. And I have tried Jam, touch, and jump. with the Particular bullet my rifle seems to really like. And surprisingly my rifle likes jump. So much that my jump is 207 thousands off jam. And what I use as Jam, is the rifling grabs the bullet period. Meaning you have to run a cleaning rod to tap the bullet out. I do have a custom barrel and chamber. Its a Palmer chamber. Now I maybe saying this incorrectly but the reamer is designed to make a parallel throat before the Lands VS Funnel shape like what you may find on Factory chambers. That allows one to have a long jump VS jam or touch. And still show the same result. Now I'm no expert on the definition of a parallel throat. But the word parallel is what has been explained. Now as far as the results on paper at 100 yards, they are 1/4 or less, mostly less. And when I have tried Jam or touch, the barrels just does not like it and I get pressure signs and sticky cases or I have to use a rubber mallet to tap back the bolt because of the pressure. And that is using the same powder load and bullet as I use when I'm way off the Lands. This is how it works for me so far.

@BTOMF

Жыл бұрын

This is an excellent observation. I might add to your comment as well that Erik pointed out that the testing Mark Gordon did with jumping in that .080" range was "the best place to be." I think what his and Scott Satterlee's testing shows is it is the most durable place to be. Good accuracy and durability. Their testing did show that being close to the lands gave the tightest groupings, but wasn't as forgiving or as durable as jumping that far off. And I like Speedy's answer to the question which makes sense considering his application.

Speedy is a wealth of knowledge but a straight shooter.

Now that’s a slick way of finding your seating depth !

The “sticking” comes from the Leade Taper of the throat, the last section of the throat that transitions from no rifling (the Freebore) to full rifling (the Bore.) The beginning of rifling isn’t abrupt, it has a transition angle and length that varies with each barrel. So different bullet ogives will seat differently as well according to their own angles. Imho, barrel removal isn’t needed because releasing the bullet in the Leade by touch is the same as using gravity by gently inverting the whole rifle.

A friend gave me a two foot high pile of Bench Rest magazines back in the mid 90s, and Speedy was at the top of the heap then. Just as a reader, it seemed that information was tightly confined then, reading between the lines something’s are still clear and others aren’t as much talked about. Trade secrets almost……cept twinxt really good friends and possibly 98k or so subscribers…….Speedy- great to see some of your work get out to the faithful! What I wouldn’t give to spend a couple of weeks at his shop! I could possibly understand part of the information?

Easiest way to do it with a barreled action, rifle in a cleaning cradle, place round into chamber. Tap round with your finger tip putting the round as far as it will go in the chamber. Tilt rifle if you are not into the lands the cartridge will slide out. If it sticks you are in the lands, tap out with a cleaning rod.

Such a cool dude!

Very interesting thanks 😎😎

This is something I thought most did before ever installing their barrel. I do but I've never used a resized case with the adjusted shoulder bump, but will now. I've just always used a factory new case.

@speedygonzalez_x_files

Жыл бұрын

We start our load development and this test after 50 to 60 rounds have been put through the barrel. That's the reason we must remove the barrel to establish the new touch ZERO.

Thanks speedy for the info

So the way I've always done it is I use the gauge and jam the bullet then just shorten the stony point gauge setting about 10-15 thou and then 3 thou at a time and push it in with the bullet and keep doing that until the bullet doesn't stick. I use a wooded dowel to keep tapping the bullet out until I can push the case and bullet in without the bullet sticking. Can usually find it within a few tries because it always seems to be close to 20 thou back from where I first jam the bullet by pushing it into the rifling. I like to make my own modified case from a case fired in my chamber. It requires fiddling with the set screw on the stoney point gauge and measuring each time so it takes a bit of time but don't have to pull the barrel. I guess just different ways of skinning the same cat.

I've always use the Alex Wheeler method. I have a drop port, so I don't have an ejection pin. , I remove the firing pin, then close the bolt on a sized case. With the bullet long, I move it in just like you are here and try to close the bolt. When I get close, I slow down how far I move the bullet in until the bolt falls by itself without drag. .001 touching, and you can feel the bolt drag on closing.

love it. real world, take time to do it right.

always great watching a master show. If we are not able to pull the barrel, what do you recommend? I've used the Hornady tool, I've used the rod down the barrel to the bolt-face, then insert a bullet to jam, run the bolt down till it touches the bullet and measure the delta. From either, I then go with the bolt drop - that becomes my kiss point. In my BR days, I then worked into the lands (always a sweetspot at about 0.012" into the lands from kiss). Now days, I simply back off 0.020" and begin working back from there.

Still amazes me that I can design in cad and CNC my parts to .003 but we still need to plunk and jam

Could you use a depth gauge? Measure the empty case, then measure the case with the bullet and calculate how much the long case is longer than the empty case... That would tell you how far the bullet is keeping the empty case off the chamber.

Many people complain about the hornady OAL gage but for me it's easy, fast and accurate. If you get inconsistent measurements it's just because you dont use it the right way (pushing the bullet too hard against the lands). Most people dont want to remove their barrel each time they wanna try a new kind of bullets.

@308ranger8

Жыл бұрын

I use Hornady as well and it gets you close enough but these guys are professionals so i can understand why they do it this way

I was rummaging through my grandpas shop over thanksgiving and found a RCBS precision mic for our 7 rem mag. How do you feel about that tool? I got inconsistent readings with it using the scale on the side, however I also mic’d it with a Hornady bullet comparator and three measurements were all within .002 of each other 🤷

I enjoyed this video of y'all chasing the lands. 🤪

I like Eric because he doesn’t add “hydraulic hubcaps” to his procedures. I’ve seen fantastic consistency from factory ammo. I don’t get it when some on KZread snicker at factory ammo. One lot of ammo might be bad for rifle “A” and be great for rifle “B” too in both SD and precision.

Not all of us can pull our barrels to get our cartridges to the lans. Is the Hornady case/bullet measurement tool the next best option? ? ? Is there another option? ? ? Thanks for the great videos. ..

Erik, I learned that when the firing pin makes contact with the primer, 0.003 of jump is lost when the case is forced deeper into the chamber. I believe this is a discovery of Litz. What are your thoughts on this? 0.080 to 0.100 of jump is common in factory Remington 700s loaded to max COAL. I had a 308 that was jumping that far and was still shooting well for what it was.

Amazing that you can even hear the difference.

From the other side of the world, love Speedy's accent, very lyrical

Would love to see speedy showing how to strip a bolt and check for problems.

Good show

love that guy.

Thanks guys

I’m loading for a SA so I’m restricted by magazine dimensions, but I seat out as far as I can, then drop the round into the chamber, apply light finger pressure, then turn the barrel up and make sure the round drops out freely. If it sticks, I’ll keep seating deeper until it drops free. TL/DR: I do the same thing. 👍

@oif3vetk9

Жыл бұрын

SA, semiauto? In my opinion with gas guns, seat at factory C.O.L. and let the EC tuner/brake work the rest out. I load 6 ARC and I set everything to hornady case specs for sizing and seat the berger 105 hybrids at factory C.O.L. then tuned it. On a AR platform I just think it's the best way to do it. (Just my opinion, I could be wrong.) Gas guns are absolutely a different world to load for compared to bolt. lol

@jcnikoley

Жыл бұрын

@@oif3vetk9 I’m also shooting/reloading for a 6 ARC. Great minds think alike? I usually stick with published COAL but always check to make sure the bullet isn’t getting jammed. A lot of people have reported sticking their bullets in the barrel with factory ammo in 6ARC, it’s just something I check. I’ve always done it this way reloading for other calibers as well, bolt or gas gun I don’t want my bullets getting jammed in the rifling. I’ve been doing it this way for about 40 years. I didn’t know it was something new.

Use emery cloth to slightly take down the diameter of your favorite bullet so it slips a bit easier into your fresh case. Do not crimp. Chamber it with your extractor removed. It will seat to the proper depth. Open the bolt, and the cartridge will stay chambered. Now the hard part is gently pushing the bullet out of the lands with a cleaning rod. Crimp it as is and retest. Baseline via poor folks method.

Certainly found it easier to run cast bulletts jammed or even fully breech seated to get a load to shoot, than backing it out. I have one gun I'd be willing to experiment with touch or jamming bullets, seeing as it isn't a hunting gun. One of these days I'll get a roundtoit. it's the unknown of pressure difference to get the bullet moving in the bore that spooks people, maybe can't run max velocity that way. Primer pocket life will dictate that.

I didn't pull my barrel, but took out the FP and ejector (308 Win).. Found that FGMM 175gr SMKs are off the lands at 2.800 COAL (~2.203 CBTO), my 175gr reloads at 2.800 COAL (2.216 CBTO) are actually touching the lands. Tested 10 FGMM and 15 of my reloads using a Hornady comparator.. I had to seat mine to 2.777 COAL (2.193 CBTO) to get them off the lands.

That's set at ambient temperature, what factors are in play when your barrel heat increases?

How much would you reduce the powder charge when seating into the rifling if I’m jumping a 208gr .308 hornady bullet .015” in my 30-338 that is loaded to what I’m considering the top of my guns pressure acceptance. The barrel is a Krieger .3078”, 1-10”. Currently it shoots into the low .400’s but I think I can get more out of it. BTW did you used to be called Speedy Gonzales? Thanks for the informative video.

Another reason I am happy i have a Seekins HIT. 2 minutes to remove the barrel.

Speedy’s the man 🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽

If u soft seating the bullet,, how does it make it to the hard jam in the lands with out the bullet seating in the brass as it enters the lands?? Thanks for the videos

I’ve learned a lot from speedy videos.

The problem that I have with this method is that the ogive differs when you change projectiles. How many times are you going to remove the barrel? I use an empty case with loose seating and chamber it with the bolt 3 times to get my DTL

Living legend

Love the knowledge and experience

What do they do that for? Ah, pressure, oh, ok. Talk about keeping the conversation going 🎉

If im right you need wery little "necktension" when loading to the lands? And when loading to the lands you will get pressure faster so you loose velocity?

Is the temp of the bullet or the barrel at this point of any consequence to the seating?

i love the info but genuinely curious what were the issues he had with all of the other methods that caused him to go to this process?

I prever the way Eric did it in a previos video. It males more sense to have only one direction to move and it seems easier

Did I hear Mr. Speedy just say he chases the lands? 🤯

@br4713

Жыл бұрын

😂

Ive heard of the PRS guys reaming out their chambers for a lot of jump. Scott S. Talks about it in one of His videos. I don't know if it's a Weatherby philosophy or why. But obviously it works for some .

Interesting video. Have you run a comparison between this and the Hornady OAL gauge? Is one more repeatable than the other? Are their measurements the same / similar (with a fired / modified case of course)?

@claverton

Жыл бұрын

Personally I think the Hornady OAL gauge is a total waste of money. I put a loosely fitted bullet into a case and load it into the rifle chamber with a tiny bit of loctite on the inside of the neck and leave it in the chamber for half and hour to let the loctite stick, and presto, you have your case with bullet on the lands ready to measure. What could be simpler?

@aakoksal

Жыл бұрын

@@claverton Well, you don't get to wait 30 minutes with Hornady OAL gauge... It produces repeatable results, doesn't need any consumable like a loctite...

Did you compare the time and effort put into this vs. the Hornady tool with measured variances in results?

What direction does the pressure go as you move away from the lands?

So would you want to have a chamber with a 0fb ? Or do you still want a fb? Thanks

You can do the same thing without removing the barrel. Same process. Just put a small wooden dowel down the barrel from The muzzle and tap the round until it doesn’t stick or pop loose when you push on it. I bought a dowel at the hardware store for a dollar. 😊 sanded to smooth and bam! Best way I’ve ever used to find touch.

@ErikCortina

Жыл бұрын

That would be touch, not jam.

@DrumGun76

Жыл бұрын

Yes. You are correct. Will fix!

@DrumGun76

Жыл бұрын

And, I’m sure Speedy’s way is probably more accurate.

@erich9111

Жыл бұрын

Good suggestion for those looking to do this without taking the barrel off.

Hi erik im still learning and was wondering if its common to seat bullets out more then .080 of manufacturers suggested seating depth. Also does that change velcities when you seat the bullet farther out

@post_historic

Жыл бұрын

Seems that the deeper you seat, the more the case pressure increases. Many claim that going for max velocity will not yield greater precision (more turbulence and probably takes longer to stabilize). In competition you're not trying to knock somthing down just get it where it needs to be!

"Eric's Straight Line Bullet Seater", Is this going to be one of those new products coming to production?

How much of your bullet is seated into the case? Do you have at least one bullet width in the case neck?

I'm learning a lot from these videos and did some testing with this method. I took my Hornady OAL gauge place a bullet into the dummy casing long pushed it into the barrel like show in the video, locked the gauge down and measured it. I repeated this 3 times to see if this method was accurate. Each time my 338 lapua read 2.995 on the OAL comparator, very impressive. So my next question was how accurate was this for touching the lands? I put black marker on the bullet and pushed it in and sure enough I could see very light score marks on my lands using a jewler's scope. My next question was how hard is it going into the lands? I put my OAL gauge at 3.000 a mere 5 though longer and the bullet was sticking like he showed in the video and it wouldn't stay in my OAL 338 casing gauge ( a dummy shell that is tapped). My final question was how accurate is it switching from a Hornady dummy casing to my Lapua brass I suspected there to be a difference since I tested both casings on a headspace gauge and there was maybe a .005 difference in height (still in spec). To my surprise I put marker on a bullet I made using 2.995 oal and it left land marks! Taking the barrel off is a lot of work but not a bad thing to do to inspect your barrel once in a while, while cleaning it and making sure nothing freezes together. I'll make sure to record my measurement as I'll start doing this every 500 rounds or so.

Thanks for another informative video. I'm curious about speedy's policy about how much bearing surface he wants in the neck for his benchrest guns. I'm more interested in the minimum amount. I've noticed inconsistency when I go below a certain number which I attribute to inconsistent ignition due to lack of "neck tension". On a side note I've recently been testing some longer jumps(.050-.070 off jam) to get the necessary bearing surface in the neck with certain bullets(availability being what it is) and the results have been surprisingly good.

@speedygonzalez_x_files

Жыл бұрын

Powder, Neck Tension, & Bullet Seating depth is the Holy Trinity of accuracy. The knowledge of how those three relate and effect the performance of the firearms is the key to the marriage of accuracy and precision. To answer you question the more the bullets is into the neck the less tension is required. I seat my bullets about 1/3 to 1/2 into the length neck, to get consistent performance I must increase my neck tension to about .0035 to .004 compared to .001 to .002 when using almost the entire length of the neck.

@johnnymissfire8464

Жыл бұрын

@@speedygonzalez_x_files I find that amazing that you have that much of the bearing surface out of the case neck. That is awesome of you to share your knowledge, thank you!

@MMBRM

Жыл бұрын

@@speedygonzalez_x_files Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. I also had to modify my neck tension used when I started annealing every firing. I began getting fliers when using the 0.001-0.0015" that I had been previously using. I changed it to 0.003" and they went away. Neck tension is so much more complicated than just the amount the brass is expanded when the bullet is seated. I'll try even more neck tension to see if I can negate the inconsistency I was getting when the bearing surface was less than 0.140" into the neck of my 6PPC. I found that it was better to jump the bullet even 50 to 80 thou off of jam than to have not enough bearing surface in my current methods. Thanks for sharing!

@trikelife4960

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for asking this and thank you to Speedy for the detailed answer. I have some testing to do now lol.

Hows the bolt hold the base of the shell if its in the berrel?

Yea, I’m going to stick to the COAL gauge on finding jam. Lol. Not knocking the method, but man that takes a lot of work, and I can’t see how it could be that much more accurate.

@jorgefigueroa7573

Жыл бұрын

In my humble opinion Jam is basically where the rifling holds the bullet. The only way you can back it out is by using your cleaning rod to ever so slightly tap it out. That works for me. But I do appreciate the other way Speedy speaks off.

@chrisharris9710

Жыл бұрын

@@jorgefigueroa7573 right, that’s my method. Use the cleaning rod in conjunction with the tool, working the bullet in and out to get a consistent jam measurement.

@jorgefigueroa7573

Жыл бұрын

@@chrisharris9710 yeah what I do Chris with the hornandy rod and case holder for measuring overall, I jam the bullet in good Like I said the lands will Hold the bullet And that’s the jam point. I use the cleaning rod to tap out the bullet stuck in the lands

@billclifton8400

Жыл бұрын

@@jorgefigueroa7573 Thats what I do. Then back off 10 thou and then 3 thou at a time.

@jorgefigueroa7573

Жыл бұрын

@@billclifton8400 👍👍

I myself get a ruff jam with Hornady gauge then do a test with a 10 thou start going up in 3 thou test baches of 5 at different jump Lenths to find a good jump after doing a powder test knowing the jam has never needed to be supper high tolerance i find the Hornady gauge works well enough for me i will take several readings making sure not to load up on the push rod as not to place compression on it will take 5 readings then dived to get an average of the mean i don't have the equipment to disenable my rifles to work out the Jam LoL makes for a great video though.

Do you have a link or the name of the bullet, seating, tool and die?

Using gravity as a bite indicator on the bullet selves as utter precision. I still like the Hornady rod though. But realistically, though you’re talking about a few thousands in terms of the difference of the two methods. With one method you’re finger is the pressure, the other is gravity.

Easier to have your barrel maker chamber a short length of barrel stock for a gauge.

I know this is an old thread but the last thing you said sounded a lot like if you load a weatherby cartridge into the lands it would automatically be over pressured. Is this true or dangerous?

With this method or the hornady OAL gage, what is important is to use some cases with the right headspace measurement. Not with the 0.002' bump, but the exact chamber fit ; otherwise it wont correspond with what happens when you're closing the bolt.

@ErikCortina

Жыл бұрын

Aren’t you gonna close the bolt on brass that has 0.002” bump?

@kybowhunter1974

Жыл бұрын

Why won’t it either the ejection plunger or firing pin seats the shoulder of the case against the chamber shoulder when fired. So no matter what happens behind the dantum the jump, touch, or jam will always be exactly the same.

@br4713

Жыл бұрын

@@ErikCortina If you have no ejector and you wanna seat your bullets into the lands (reloading for benchrest shooting), there's a problem with this measurement method. Because without ejector pin the case isn't pushed against the front of the chamber, so there's some play in front of the shoulder. If you take the measurements with this method and you use a case sized to fit exactly your chamber length (instead a 0.002' shoulder bump), the measurements will be exact for any situation.