I think the most important factor is longevity of elastomers compared to the servicing required of the Future Shock. It will surprise you how low that time frame is. For me, the Diverge I bought didn’t come with the Future shock but the next model up did at $600 more. The Shock Stop was only $140! Bigger tires $80! Lots more money for beer!

@ThePsychosisChannel

Жыл бұрын

soak the elastomer in hot water for a few minutes to shape it.

Funny that I only just saw this video today, the same day I saw the "Bike Nerd" stickers (I've been watching your videos for a few months). Total Bike Nerd! In exactly the right way. Using proper terms and concepts to evaluate the behavior of bike parts. Keep it up.

Great video. Precisely what I was looking for!!!

LOVE the nerdiness! Great dissertation.

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

Haha dissertation 😆

Thank you for this! Really helps.

i was researching the redshift stem for my commuter bike since it would cost more to fit a mtb suspension fork on the bike. great comparsion video of the 2 unique systems.

Bravo sir. I rate your reviews and opinions on bicycles very highly. Thank you for the obvious effort you put in. I Have been vacillating about purchasing the redshift system for some time.

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

Thx Shannon 🤘

Awesome comparison, thanks for covering this topic!

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Thx for checking it out

Great video! Certainly useful for someone considering a specialized vs another gravel bike. You definitely need to do a video with both lol. Too cool to pass up

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Ha yea. I’ll put that one together soon

I have the red shift stem on 3 gravel bikes and love it. 6 hand surgeries comfort rules in my senior years. Hadmthem since they came out. If your hands need help try it. Kitchen sink bars too are nice

Very good and profound comparison.

I have both the stem and seat post. Some of the best money I have ever spent on any bike stuff. Highly recommend.

Running the Redshift Pro on my gravel bike (21 Checkpoint ALR) for more than a year now. Funnily mostly around the exact scenery the B roll of thus vid is (Fullerton Loop, & neiboring SoCal Trails). I really like it. I am 86kg/190lbs and I run it at the stiffest possible elastomer combination, but the benefits are still tangible, even on 700x45c (or 42c) tires. Takes a couple of rides to forget about the "rotation", or at least thats what it took for me and just feels natural now. You actually can discern it's action from a deflated tire pretty easily: even 2-3 psi is recognized for me. Highly recommended. Afaik the difference with the non-pro version is purely cosmetic + some weight.

@bobhuffman2592

Жыл бұрын

Curious as to your stem length seeing you run the stiffest elastomer combination, stem length is one thing the video did not address. I'm 175 lbs, running 25 c tires (the largest I can put on my 2002 Litespeed) with an 80 mm Shock Stop stem, just tried a softer 70/60 combination that gave some travel. The recommended 80/50 for my weight was as stiff as a standard stem. Going to try a 80/NONE setup next. I don't use it for gravel but to overcome the poor pavement in my area. To me stem length should have a big impact on elastomer setup. The longer the stem the more leverage will be applied and longer travel. I doubt stem length has much effect on the Future Shock performance.

@dtolios

Жыл бұрын

@@bobhuffman2592 I am also running a 80mm stem (default for my Checkpoint 56cm is 100mm, but went with wider bars to feel more comfortable on single-track, so I've shortened the stem a bit to approx. the same fit). I am 182cm/bit over 5'11 & 188~190lbs/so mid~high 190s kitted up, depending on the season.

Great reflection coming from an engineer. I had the Future shock on my diverge comp then when I sold that I put the redshift sports stem on my Marin Headlands 1. I'd probably give the overall performance to the Future shock, however I love the bolt-on bolt off interchange you have with the redshift sports stem. It'll probably end up on a commuter bike in future years.

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Haha I think we pretty much agree across the board.

@michaelmartinez4454

Жыл бұрын

Curious if you did ever end up trying using the shockstop with the future shock?

Right on man

Great video! I don't think it's pointless though. This comparison has been in my head for quite a while. I've been running the Redshift stem for a year and a half now, and I recently bought a new bike. It was quite the upgrade so I did LOTS of research and tested a few bikes. I know that some sort of suspension would be a must. The type of riding I do is very rough and the Redshift stem opened my eyes on suspension on gravel. This ruled out bikes with proprietary stem-bars like the Scott Addict Gravel or the BMC Kaius. A suspension fork was the next item to be eliminated. They are too heavy, compromise aero and they just feel like bad mountain bikes. (I have a trail bike to scratch that itch). This meant that there were 3 finalists: A Lauf, a Specialized or any of the few other options I had that have normal round steerer tubes. Since Lauf is pretty much non-existent in my country and I just find the fork plan ugly, the decision boiled down to a Specialized and the few bikes with round steerers that were in the list. I tested the future shock with several settings. The soft spring made it feel awful. I'm light, at 66kg, but even then it bottomed out easily, which made it feel rough, like it was about to disassemble under me. The medium spring was way better, but still didn't have the balance of the Redshift. It is true that depending on where you grab the handlebars, the effect is more or less noticeable, but I also found this a positive. In the end, I went for a 3T Exploro Ultra and fitted my Redshift. I tested a Specialized STR after that and even though it is awesome, I still think I made the right choice for the type of riding I do. Again, great comparison!

I love the red shift stem.

I have a Diverge with FS 1.0 running the stiffest spring and a Roubaix with FS 2.0. I’m a huge convert to minimalist front suspension. I would say for myself the 2.0 doesn’t offer much as I run it open all the time. The Redshift is a great solution. I feel it would be more optimal to have the elastomers used in an axial direction by using a more quill style stem shape.

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

I agree that translational motion offers a better feel, but there’s so much more supporting structure necessary when compared to the rotating shockstop

Great video, have been a follower since your earlier videos on Diverge! Just wanted to give you my personal experience on running Future Shock and ShockStop stem together. I ride my Diverge almost exclusively on green-blue MTB single tracks of SoCal that is dry, loose, and probably chunkier than typical "gravel" roads that most people would ride the bike on. I also push it to the edge with 650b/2.0 Continental RaceKing tires and a dropper post. My short travel trail MTB is almost always faster, but switching things around keep things fresh for me. For my use case, the Future Shock 2.0 alone bottoms out too frequently. The ShockStop adds a layer of progressiveness where the Future Shock leaves off. The ShockStop is set up slightly stiffer than the Future Shock, so it doesn't really kick in until the Future Shock bottoms out. I am no engineer, but couldn't the two systems work together if the spring rates are very different? Thanks in advance.

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Maybe they could work together. Armchair engineers would suggest they shouldn’t, but I’ll probably try it anyways.

Hi, thanks so much for this! I've been using the Shock Stock stem and seat post for a long time on my older Raleigh Roker, but am now starting a new bike build with the Winspace G2 (with all your great videos!) and expect to use it on this one also. btw, can you share the approximate weight yours turned out to be after you got it all done? Thanks!

I have a SIRRUS 4X with future shock and I put my Redshift stem suspension on the future shock and use both together for about one year

Love my Redshift, but I would also love to try a Future Shock

2 systems might have interference vibration or might cancel out each other like an inerter/j damper. Could go both ways... looking forward to the future video!!

Hey Bike Sauce, great video. Any Chance expanding the comparison to some of the more recent suspension stems with parallelograms like Vecnum freeQENCE. Thanks.

Having run FutureShock 1.5 on my Sirrus X 4.0 for more than a year - and then adding Redshift Shockstop Pro to my new Trek FX 3 - there is in my mind no competition. Futureshock gives hands down way more compliance on gravel - but FutureShock is unfortunately limited to selected bike frames. Redshift is better than nothing though - and a great option for all other bikes. So I agree with the review - although Mr. Bike Sauce may be a little nicer to Redshift than he could have been :)

I use the Redshift on my SIRRUS 4x together have done so 2 years works fine

Off topic, but what brand is the frame bag on your bike? Super information on the Future Shock. I love it on my Vado 5.0. I’m not looking for the lockout so I quite content with the 1.5 Thanks

Thanks for that breakdown. Looking forward to what you find from the vibrational data logger. I would also be interested to see if Redshift's system benefits certain styles of handlebars better than others.

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Yea I’m curious too. Not super hopeful for clean data, but will see what I can find

@danlane2547

2 жыл бұрын

I bet. Super clean data is nearly impossible to get with these kinds of tests. Makes it more interesting though.

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Plan is to take rms values of averaged runs and also look at the data in the frequency domain for better clues

@danlane2547

2 жыл бұрын

Nice, looking forward to it.

Great information, I'm looking to buy a trek dual sport 3 gen5 and add this stem or a specilized sirrus x4.0. Trek is cheaper in price with the suspension added to it than th sirrus. I'm still debating but your vide helped me a lot.

You must be a physicist. Nerdy physicist here. Enjoyed the video. Thanks

I am considered replacing my carbon diverge with an aluminum Canyon Grizl Suspension. I would love to hear your thoughts on the rockshox rudy fork vs. future shock

Have you had a chance to compare the Redshift stem versus the Cane Creek eeSilk? Just wondering which one is better

This very much reminds me of the old Girvin Flexistem in the 90s,, which was the first suspension product as far as I can remember

@RidingEasttoWest

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. This video was like comparing the Girvin Flexstem with the Cannondale HeadShok of the '90s. I guess what goes around comes around.

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

Haha it’s all derivative

I am not too much in love with spring-based gravel suspension, since there is no 'B' component to 'disipate energy or heat'. Neither like mtb forks on a gravel. So I think redshift it's gonna be very popular. I think BMC has bought the patent, its similar like canyon made with ergon flex seatpost (allterrain).

Thanks for doing this video! I do think the industry is attempting to solve problems they've created again. Most "gravel bikes" are profoundly overbuilt, so they try to fix it with something like Future Shock or ShockStop. I think the vast majority of riders would really benefit from riding a well-built supple [usually but not exclusively steel] bike, quill stem, wide supple bars, wide tubeless tires, and even rim brakes to prevent the fork from being too overbuilt for disc brakes.

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

💯

👍 reflections about the systems! I start wondering how this compares to different suspension forks, esp. the Lauf Grit fork with 30mm travel ( adding about 350g compared to a 500g carbon fork). Out of interest, because I like to ride a lot in the drops: Is there really no (not recommendable) option to bodge a future shock system into a standard or tapered head tube? I.e. can't it be transplanted into another frame? Maybe possibly from a second hand specialized fork or frame?

@sdilizio

Жыл бұрын

I've used both the Lauf TR Boost with 60mm travel and the Redshift Shockstop. Both will take the edge off the rough stuff for the rider, although I think the 60mm Lauf does it better. Not certain how the 30mm Lauf would compare. However, the Lauf also allows the front wheel to just absorb and roll over minor bumps with ease--small bump compliance is pretty incredible. And it doesn't hurt grip either given how the tyre keeps tracking more cleanly over the ground. Just the front wheel has to move up and over bumps. The Shockstop on the other hand has to move the entire front of the bike up against the resistance of the rider's weight. The 60mm Lauf has its quirks though. A bit of shimmy due to a lack of lateral rigidity at times. The pogo stick effect when you hit a large bump due to the undamped suspension. I've heard the 30mm Lauf is the sweet spot for that technology and doesn't suffer these drawbacks so much.

@nikveldkamp8630

Жыл бұрын

@@sdilizio well thank you for the detailed info and sharing your experiences.👌🏽

Can you run the shock stop in addition to the future shock? Would this give you more travel or effect the handling?

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Haven’t actually done it, but I suspect it’ll get noticeably too squishy. It’s on my list of things to try

@ifitrollsrideit530

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBikeSauce I've really wondered about this. I was wondering if you used the firmest elastomers would that work as a progressive "shock".

I have both shockstop stem and seat post on my gravel bike. Love the seat post but the stem felt underwhelming to me so I added a Rockshox Rudy gravel fork. Now the fork absorbed everything but I still have the stem on but based on what you said about doubling down on suspension, should I just save the extra pound and remove the shockstop stem?

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

I’d remove the shockstop if you have a suspension fork personally. But will it really save you a pound? Doesn’t it only weight about 220g?

@duyle557

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBikeSauce mine is the regular one, not the upgraded one like yours. Never weigh it but they say it's about a pound and it does feel the part

Future Shock moves up and down parallel to ground. Shockstop tilts the bars down as it moves. If you are used to the FS , you will not like the shockstop

I always have doubt about the red shift stem which make the rider "bow" forward ; unlike the future shock which absorb you downward

@zurichgnome6073

Жыл бұрын

I was concerned about that too before I had a ShockStop stem installed on my CAADX 105 but at about 4:19 he explains (correctly) that you can self-adjust how much compliance you get by adjusting your hand positioning. For my riding it means I can pretty much barrel down a fire road in the drops with my hands far enough back to still comfortably reach the brakes while minimizing any slushy feel. Straight up it’s just a really good product. Pricey though.

where are you located in Cali?

which Future Shock version is it in this comparision please?

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

2.0, wide open

GIMME THE DATA ! Looking forward to the next video

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

😆 right on

Kinda hard to compare something that is compatible with everything including a future shock model bike to something with future shock being that's a single brand release and limited to a few models. Future shock is alright but I went with a BMC unrestricted with the redshift stem and post system, I sell specialized at my shop. I wouldn't change a thing. Agreed at ones not better then the other, ones just more compatible then the other. Which in my mind makes it the winner.

How about a redshift stem on a Mountain bike with 130mm travel suspension fork ? You think it will be smoother Good down a steep mountain trail?

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

Redshift stem on an mtb bar with a bit of sweep back is almost pointless since the effective moment arm is so short. I have it on my Poseidon redwood right now and it does almost nothing

@orlandovelastegui1391

Жыл бұрын

@@TheBikeSauce okay good to know.!

In my experience the wider the tire the less you need these. Past 45 mm you are fine with a regular stem

how does these compare to like cheap front fork that has suspension? i think you could get a front fork with suspension for the cost of shockstop.

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

Not for the FS equipped bikes..

@nebulous962

Жыл бұрын

​​@@TheBikeSauceof course. That's not what I meant. I meant how does this compare to front fork with suspension.

@nebulous962

Жыл бұрын

​​​​@@TheBikeSaucelike what would be better. Buying a front fork with suspension or these? Assuming we keep the same budget and assuming that i have rigid bike now.

Can you use those on ridged MTBs?

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t see why not, but I’m not sure if the product is certified for mtb use

Would you or your students ever productize the future shock delete?

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

We’re working on a production version now actually!

Does anyone make one in silver/chrome?

Great video once again. Do you have a go-to tire for your diverge? Have you tried any 700x47c yet?

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve had the gravelking sk 700x43 on for over a year now. A great all around and affordable tire. I do have a set of Rene Herse 700x48 ready to go on pretty soon though

@rguitarist

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBikeSauce interesting… you’re not concerned that the 48s may not fit? Looks like you ran the Goodyear Connect for a bit. What did you think of those?

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Mildly concerned, but I think they’ll work. Goodyears are 650b x 50, and fit with plenty of room. Like ‘em so far. Review in the works

Where can I get the futureshock delete?

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

Should be available in the online shop starting next week

Try the VECNUM Stem! Gamechanger!

@bill7853

Жыл бұрын

the vecnum stem looks great but I have been concerned and somewhat curious as to the lack of reviews generally on the web and elsewhere . It's not cheap and if truly a great upgrade why so little feedback generally . I asked vecnum but they gave a politician's reply ...and sent me a link to one of very few views reviews to be found .

@Chorge1972

Жыл бұрын

@@bill7853 Vecnum is a small private company, but you can trust in their quality! The dropper Posts are for sure the best in the market since many years… If I‘d buy a suspension for my gravel, it‘ll be for sure their stem!

@bill7853

Жыл бұрын

@@Chorge1972 thanks for the feedback . I know little of the company except they are in Germany . With so many bike enthusiasts there it just seems strange the lack of reviews online . Also is there easy spares availability, are they rebuildable ? Are they superior to other options like redshift etc ? Also .. I bought a redshift stem but found to get much movement ( rigid 29er straight bar) I had to run a softer élastomer which oscillated up and down on tough climbs out of the saddle which I didn't like . It's frustrating there are so few with lockout function.. can't be complicated but would be a major improvement IMHO . Any more info/ suggestions etc would be very much appreciated. If only I could test one then if I liked it I would buy for sure but for some reason they don't like this idea. Regards from Devon UK, Bill

If you can’t really tell the difference, then a question should be how much does the future shock cost to service, repair or replace? Also, regarding the future shock over the redshift stem. Why have you made a future shock delete? If you feel the need to machine a part to remove the future shock, then as such does this automatically mean that the redshift stem is better? If you need feel the need to delete the future shock the the redshift must be better? Thoughts 🤔🤔👍

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Good questions. You definitely can tell a difference - didn’t mean to suggest you can’t. Future shock is expensive to replace - on the order of a couple hundred. The delete was a student senior project that I was advising - the idea was to create an option for people who like their bike, but want to remove the FS (watch the video for more info). There are a number of reasons one may want to. Neither system is ‘better’ - you can’t really quantify that. Both do a good job at their intended purpose

7:06 - that's pretty much it :D

EVEN NERDIER? NO WAY...

@TheBikeSauce

Жыл бұрын

😆

Just to let you know - you don’t really need your helmet on a walk……… 😏😉😉 But staying that maybe you got it right after all 😏😆😆

If people want shock absorption, then go for an XC suspension fork instead of these half-assed overpriced solutions. People build sub-9KG XC MTBs with full suspension, should be possible to build a sub-9KG gravel bike with front suspension fork. Hell, my "climbing" bike is 9.5KG because that's all that i can afford, i am not joining any professional races so it's all good.

@timdixo

Жыл бұрын

I have the Redshift and believe me it works a treat proving you’re not on gnarly single track. A 150mg weight penalty is tolerable and a fraction of a XC fork.

If we all rode well designed steel gravel bikes, we wouldn't need all these suspension-like "band-aids" for stiff carbon frames. Now, get off my lawn!

@TheBikeSauce

2 жыл бұрын

Haha there it is. Waiting for this comment. Stay tuned for a steel build in the coming months.

Cannondale fucked up not continuing the Headshock system. Back in the late 90’s the cyclocross bike with a headshock was WAAAAAAY Ahead of its time!