I’ve bought steel and aluminum for machining through ebay and found your conclusions accurate. Most commercial ebay sellers, even selling drops, are as high as anyone. A few are quite reasonable when you can catch them with the stock you need. Same with small shops. The occasional individual sometimes offers a good deal. Like any ebay item, some steels will sit there grossly overpriced for months on end while the seller hopes for...something. As someone has said, it can be worth politely asking about a shop’s recycling bin. I bought a worn out project band saw one day and was looking at pallet loads of aluminum scrap sitting next to it, nice usable bits of plate, rounds, and big rectangular bar-quite a catch for a home machinist. I offered to buy some and the shop owner refused to let me pay. “Just take all you want.”

Shipping prices for metals can be heart stopping, especially if the pieces are over a foot long. Medium and large USPS Flat Rate Priority is good because you can ship up to 70 lbs. in a single box, but again you are limited on the lengths you can fit into them. If you can use 1 foot lengths, the shipping is much less if you buy 3 of them instead of a single 3 foot piece. Informative video. Thanks. Jerry

When I started, and even now, when I was learning to make a tool or item, I used rebar or mild steel flat stock that was close to the high carbon in size to get the hang of the techniques I need so I don't waste usable steel and to learn how steel moves in general.

That searching for stuff online HURTS MY LITTLE BRAIN!!!!

eBay works great if you set the "Condition" filter to "used". This way it filters out all the material dealers using ebay as an online storefront, and you only get people like machine shops trying to sell cutoffs and surplus to recover some costs. Thanks for all your awesome videos John.

I have found leaf springs to be a very good carbon steel source. You can go to any you pull it car parts place and get them. Leaf spring material hardens well in oils and tempers easily.

Thanks John ! It's like you are reading my mind , I have questions and you make a post answering my question befor I've asked you :) Respect , Great Teacher ! :) Peace from Australia !

This is by far the best teaching channel I've found on KZread this video is a prime example of why. Thank you and keepe'm coming

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the comment. I am glad it is helping

The machine shop i stopped by gave me the McMaster-Carr

Your videos are always SO informative and helpful. Thank you.

@BlackBearForge

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you like them!

another great resource video John. this is all stuff I'm looking forward to, I'm getting to a skill level that'll justify laying out coin for known steel 😜 in the meantime, old leaf springs and crowbars are great learning material and through experience with heat treatment in my forge (and encouragement from your videos, i might add) I've got a reasonable grasp on this subject. no limit to learning though hey! cheers John thanks mate

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Steels and their properties can be a life long study. Sometimes I thin k the more I know the more confusing it gets.

@mikeywatts322

6 жыл бұрын

Black Bear Forge hahaha! yes mate, too true. I'm starting to realise that pretty much sums up life in general! keeps it interesting and the thirst for learning fresh though. cheers mate

@andrewyork3869

4 жыл бұрын

@@BlackBearForge its an amazingly indepth field.

McMaster will really help me never knew about them

I get steel from NJ Steel Baron often. They'll send a chart that lists the steels they usually have in stock. The website lists a lot of steel, but often they are out of stock or unavailable. I go by the chart and it's usually in stock.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

That is good to know

I can’t believe it, I’ve driven a tandem dump truck past NJ Steel Baron hauling blacktop to Bergen County Community Collage.

Admiral steel has one of the most complicated web sites for ordering knife steel I've ran across on the net

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I have noticed that

Thank you so much for this! McMaster-Carr IS amazing! Just put my cart of everything I need for my first forge. Can't wait to get to smithing!

I live in Alberta, a lot of farmers in oil country use sucker rod use the rod part as posts for barbed wire fences.

Your videos are great.. informative and entertaining.. that being said your voice can put me to sleep so fast when you're just talking.. I put on your mostly talking videos when I need to go to sleep..

Very interesting. I have used McMaster-Carr for purchases of a wide variety of products. I would be a novice near a forge but as fabricator of parts and peace's I want that I can not buy or find it cheaper to make. I work on vehicles and that is behind me, but working on one for my own. So if walking thru a bone yard and I find something I can repurpose, I get it. Remember, If the women don't find you hansom, hopefully they find you handy! Thanks again for a good lesson in searching but my knowledge of metals is limited. I do get springs and know they can be made into wonderful things. I appreciate the video!

I don't have access to any junkyard or salvage steel. I have to buy new known steel to use, so I don't have lots of availability of steel to use. That can get expensive these days as steel went through the roof pricewise.

Australia, England and America do have different name references on some steels, a guy i spoke to locally said if i give him a reference he will be able to get me the steel i need, just price that may be an issue. Really helpful video, thanks John.

When I locate "scrap" metals, I try to identify what it's original purpose was and then search the web to discover what it's composition is. Things like dozer track pins or bucket pivot pins, for example, are usually a manufacturer specified alloy and thus identifiable. Otherwise, I do as you and seek out the alloy I need if "critical" for the end product. Thanks for your insight.

John, i get most of my mild steel, and 1095 and 4140 from a local store called fastenal. They can get overnight most square round hex and flat stock if its not in stock. The other tool steels like w1 o1 and s7 i get through a steel supplier in jackson about 40 miles away. They have everything you could think of there, but its not as cheap nor as close as fastenal. Most of the time i can get drops of 4140 and 1095 from a couple of friends who own a machine and tool and die shops.

This is exactly the help I needed. You Rock!!

I use Gameco in Sydney in Australia. Good supply of steels and other supplies.

@MatthewSherriff85

5 жыл бұрын

Dave Dreds same here, good shipping rate also

Takes the mystery out of how to order steels. Thanks!

The majority of my steel comes from local mechanic shops I have several in my area that keep a bin just for me lol also my local scrap yard is always willing to let me dig around I'm friends with the owner and workers

@garethbaus5471

4 жыл бұрын

That sounds like a great source.

Thanks for that John. What an excellent subject to help us out with. The question of where to get specific steels from has been on my mind, but I never thought to ask.

Great video! Informative, well sourced, instructional. Thanks John.

Another great source is Alro Metal's

I’ve recently acquired some s-tines from an agricultural cultivator that should be a decent spring steel. Lots of test material to work with..

I am lucky to have 4 suppliers within a 2 hr drive, including a MetalPros and a Metal Supermarket in the nearer half.

Just the video I needed! Would still like to see videos about you and also your coal storage.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I have one coming about me in general. My coal storage is just open bins in the yard.

So much to learn... And I thought welding was expensive.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Everything can be expensive.

I used to be able to get truck leaf slings for 50$ a side. Made a whole bunch of knives and short swords with it. Had some cracking issues here and there but was probably more me than the steel.

In NY and the tristate area we have Admiral and Pennsylvania Steel. They have good prices however you have to get quotes most of the time. If you do more than an occasional call the prices will be better than McMaster Carr.

I live in the Houston area and Triple S steel is a good supplier.

I really love blacksmithing and I've been a blacksmith since I was 7 so I've been forging for 8 years but I'm always learning new things

@firework5493

2 жыл бұрын

And I do have a tip I always use old saw blades I stack them up and forge weld it and then I try to make a nice piece of damask steel

McMaster-carr is the best. It's the only place I use. Mostly the next day for our shop

Thanks John. Good info.

The best place to buy small quantities of new metal is Ebay. There are MANY venders that specialize in "drops" which are the leftover pieces cut off from large commercial orders of pre-cut metal. These are not always tiny pieces. They also sell overstock and surplus metals.

Be nice if you could do a short video on the grades of steel you are discussing. I have no idea what H13 or 1071 or anything else is good for. I know what mild steel is, tool steel, stainless steel, etc, but talking grades as different types leaves my out of the loop. Love your videos, have learnt a lot but need to learn so much more!

@BlackBearForge

5 жыл бұрын

There are thousands of grades out there. Some of the best information for the blacksmith can be found in the New Edge of the Anvil by Jack Andrews. Having a printed reference is much more useful than having to refer back to a video to try and recall which steel has which properties. But in most videos that use hardenable steel I try to give some reason for my choice.

In northern Colorado theres a decent disturber called Colorado iron and metal

thanks John, you help so much.

Thanks John

Going to second the ebay shop. I just picked up a small amount of 1045 for a few hammers :) $16

Let me add this...if you live near a steel supplier, many don't even go to the trouble to try and sell drops. They just throw them in a huge dumpster and then it gets sold for scrap price. I once bought $2700 worth of 4ft long sections of 1/8" wall 3"x4" tube for $70. It never hurts to ask.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Very true

Thank you for information. Thank you for sharing.

I've got tons of sucker rod at the farm

@BlackBearForge

5 жыл бұрын

Its useful stuff

Thanks John. Great info. I look forward to seeing your videos you post daily keep it up.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I am glad you are enjoying the videos. But I suspect I will not be able to keep up the daily video pace. Sometimes you just have to get out of the shop for a day.

@TheRustyGarageandHomestead

6 жыл бұрын

Black Bear Forge i agree and understand. You still have orders you have to fill. Also gives me time to practice things I've learned from you. Thanks again

O1 tool steel , A2 , D2 High carbon chrome steel are good to start .

Very helpful thank you

Solved that mystery on how to get steels. Thanks

Great video as always. As a beginner im lost when you talk about the steel numbers. Could you do a video sometime on what steels you recommend for certain types of projects.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I will probably talk about it some. However it is something that is available in many books on the subject so you may refer back the information as needed.

I love your videos thanks so much 🙏

You might want to search “ polish rod “

Top video John. Cheers mate. Just one question...how do I decide what steel I should be using for a particular purpose? For example, I would love to make myself a rounding hammer, when my skills improve a bit. What should I use for that?

@BlackBearForge

Жыл бұрын

If you're just starting to make hammers 1045 is a good place to start. In general finding a steel you can work with and become very familiar with is better than using a bunch of high tech stuff. At least until you get comfortable making tools.

@MrJamesjustin

Жыл бұрын

@@BlackBearForge Thanks for that John. I will grab some of that, and give it a go. Have a great year good sir.

It's pretty frustrating trying to find stuff in my part of Europe, unfortunately Businesses around here have bad internet presence, and for some reason google always pulls me back to the US One of the craziest parts is that places like Ebay and Amazon push UK and US sellers to me, but with shipping of 40 to over 100 euros

That 4140 is now 113.06.

Google alro steel they have retail stores all over their specialty is drops!

Looks like a cylinder liner out of a two stroke Detroit Diesel in that pile behind you. Wonder what kind of steel that would be. Bet that would harden up.

@BlackBearForge

4 жыл бұрын

I have always thought I would use it as a lamp of some sort

@2wagondragon

4 жыл бұрын

@@BlackBearForge Great idea.

You survived a razor attack. Nice look!

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Ya gotta shave and cut your hair every couple of months whether you need it or not

@shortfuse43

6 жыл бұрын

As they say in my neck of the woods, John, "You clean up right nice.....!" Looking good!

how much can you tell about the steel by the grinding spark pattern? I know the tighter pattern or cone id higher carbon

Great video! In my local industrial supply store if you buy a piece of round stock that will square out to 3/4 inch x 1ft for about $7. The same dimensions for already square bars of 3/4 inch x 1ft is double the price or more. Any ideas why it is so much more expensive for square vs round?

@maxprophet2401

6 жыл бұрын

Because it's had more work ("will square out to") done to it. It's made round and squared off and to a precise dimension, width and height. Or, it's at least cut and ground from oversized plate to tighter tolerances than round stock, except drill rod. Maybe

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I think it is largely supply and demand. Some steels are cheaper in one form than another. I think it has to do with what shape industry uses the most. I have at times found precision ground flat stock cheaper than as rolled, just because they sell so much moire of it.

How does MSC Direct compare to McMaster-Carr, pricewise? I'm pretty close to the distribution center in Fallon, so I can skip the shipping costs if I pick it up.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I haven't compared. I like McMaster carr because they are easy and ship quickly. But if you can just pick it up that might be better.

I think I can find Rebar at the local Home Depot. How good is that metal?

@Szlaczekk

3 жыл бұрын

Not good

@Szlaczekk

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/YoaC0dWiZcWZh6g.html

Find the local car wreaker and hit m up for leaf springs

I’m slowly going through all your videos and I’ve seen you refer to both s7 and 4140 which one do you use the most and why

@BlackBearForge

3 жыл бұрын

S7 for anything that needs a clean working end like a punch or chisel, especially in hot work. 4140 for dies, swages, fullers and similar tools.

What about S7 or S2? I tried to look up info on it, but couldn’t understand the chart. Terminology. Can you recommend a good reference book about steel quality and components? I don’t have time or money for mistakes in choices of materials. This would be helpful.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I discussed some good reference books in this video kzread.info/dash/bejne/qKOtudiwdbiqibA.html For S7 I usually buy from McMaster Carr. They will also have a chart with the specifics. www.mcmaster.com/#tool-steel/=1cp4w9r

have you shopped off Amazon for your steel

When looking for local suppliers, I like to use Google Maps (www.google.com/maps/). It gives you actual LOCAL places without the ads. I know the ads can be useful, and generally skip right over them when doing a regular Google search, but I find the ability to see where a place is located in relation to home. A quick search of my city (Bedford, IN) gave eleven hits for "steel distributors". I know that some of them aren't the what I'm looking for (farm supply & home improvement stores, an automotive foundry, etc), but several of the others are, at the very least, promising leads. Perhaps a suggestion for a future video; how to decide *WHAT* steel to choose when just starting out. I know that 1095 is a high carbon (0.95% carbon) steel, O-1 is a oil quench steel, and that 440C is a stainless steel often used for knife blades; but that doesn't help me when what I want to know what's the best option for making (for example) a wood-turning chisel. I know that metallurgy is a *MASSIVE* topic, but where do you START to get a basic overview? What tips do you use for deciding what steel to use? Is it simply knowing that 1095 is good for making blades, and A2 is good for punches; or is there some sort of rhyme & reason to how they name steels?

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

good suggestion.

Hello, is there any way to know you are getting US steel as apposed to say Chinese steel from the US suppliers?

@BlackBearForge

2 жыл бұрын

None that I know of

I've been thinking about ordering if my from mcmaster carr but the lack of telling me the shipping cost is kinda making me hesitant, are their shipping prices outrageous or reasonable

@BlackBearForge

3 жыл бұрын

The last time I ordered it gave me shipping costs up front.

How many different kinds (alloys, not sizes) of factory steel do you normally stock and how many different steels do you know (by memory) the specs for?

@BlackBearForge

4 жыл бұрын

I keep W1, O1, S7, H13, 4140 & 5160 on hand. I generally look up the specs before heat treatment

@billwoehl3051

4 жыл бұрын

@@BlackBearForge , so, simple and compact, easy to manage.

I do not understand all the numbers for example 10 45

@BlackBearForge

3 жыл бұрын

every type of steel has a way to describe it. Most blacksmithing books will provide a chart breaking down all of the more common alloys. 1045 is a simple carbon steel with 45 points of carbon. 4140 would be a chrome molly steel with 40 points of carbon. It gets more confusing when you add a different system of standards. Such as W1 which means water hardening type 1 or S7 which would be shock resistant type 7. You really have to look it up to see the exact make up of the steel. The good news is that as blacksmiths, we only need to understand a small number of steels and not the thousadns of variations out there.

👍👍

Wow! If those were the (absolutely RIDICULOUS) prices of steel back in '18, imagine how much it must cost now! I reckon that I'll continue scavenging from the salvage yards...I also reckon that I'll stop my bitching about how high THEIR prices are; compared to new stock the salvage yards are practically giving it away. To HELL with buying new steel! Thanks for the wake-up call, buddy; now I know better than to even waste my time thinking about it.

Junk is junk . Get a catalog and get it right. Internet has it all !

How about explaining a little what all those steel numbers mean..

Lol 4140 results for 4140 steel 🤣😂😜

Dude, if you're going to compare prices across websites, compare prices on the same steel! Compare apples to apples, not apples to pineapples...

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

That was part of the point. They don’t have the same same steels at each different place. So you have to shop around to find what you want. Even if they have the same type of steel they don’t all stock the same sizes.