Jump ahead to a specific discussion: 4:19 Careful Spell 5:53 Distant Spell 8:55 Empowered Spell 10:45 Extended Spell 14:00 Heightened Spell 16:52 Quickened Spell 22:15 Subtle Spell 26:00 Twinned Spell

@DungeonDudes

5 жыл бұрын

ajs1031 You can’t (and don’t need to) cast cantrips using spell slots. They automatically improve as your character gains levels.

@christinaelisabethebbesen3976

5 жыл бұрын

Does using Subtle spell mean you can’t be counterspelled? The enemies can still see the cone of cold coming towards them or whatever is the visual part of a spell. Is this a no-counterspell-ticket in ALL cases?

@redram9

5 жыл бұрын

@@christinaelisabethebbesen3976 yes and no. If a spell had a material component, your enemy could still possibly notice you grabbing your arcane focus or reaching into a component pouch. Without a material component, the spells casting would be imperceptible. However, I would definitely have them roll to perceive you grabbing the material component, as well as a sleight of hand check from the sorcerer to disguise your grabbing of the component. I might also forgo the check for something clever, such as slathering honey on a biscuit, and then "accidentally" getting some honey on your finger, which would enable you to cast Suggestion with Subtle.

@zammorac

5 жыл бұрын

I'm a bit late to the party but I'd like to bring something up. At about 1:54 you say "They can create spells as high as 5th level, as long as they can cast spells of that level." and this is slightly wrong. They do not need to already have spell slots of that level, a 6th level sorcerer is able to make 4th level slots and a 7th level sorcerer can make 5th level slots. This has been confirmed by Jeremy Crawford on twitter.

@lastunusedchannelnam

5 жыл бұрын

Sorry I’m late, but say I took the Warlock initiate or multiclassed and took Eldritch Blast because it’s my favorite spell in the game, lets be real it’s sick. Anyway, could I twinned spell my Eldritch Blast if I’m lower than level 4 (I think that’s when you get the second beam) essentially gaining an early level 4 Eldritch Blast? Not saying it’s efficient for campaigns that go on past level 4 but if I were making a one shot character would it be possible?

I really wish every sorcerous origin had a unique metamagic, the way clerics get extra channel divinity features based on domain. Guess I'll have to homebrew that.

@chrisblake4198

5 жыл бұрын

I like that idea. Might go well with the thought I had for Warlocks and Sorcerers. I think they both deserve expanded spell lists with 3 options per spell level, and one spell from each level is a free pick (if you switch it later it has to be for another from the Expanded list).

@kylestillwell7031

5 жыл бұрын

The failed “college of invention” wizardry school provided a great inspiration for a metamagic type with changing the elemental type of spells

@jaysea682

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the idea

@symphony10

5 жыл бұрын

That is an amazing idea and I will be stealing this for my games. Thank you so much.

@darienb1127

5 жыл бұрын

You could make a really powerful one for level 20 to replace the lame ass ability that is there.

I'm surprised they didn't mention Subtle Counterspell! Denying an opponent's spellcasting ability without an apparent cause is an amazing intimidation tactic. Whether it's denying someone else their own charm spell in the middle of a negotiation they expected to easily get the upper hand in, or causing the enemy wizard's opening fireball to simply "not work" while you stare them down with no aggressive action, Subtle Counterspell is an excellent way to get opponents to just *back off* and possibly avoid a confrontation.

@haysdixon6227

3 жыл бұрын

I quite like this comment

@Eramiserasmus

3 жыл бұрын

This and sometimes remembering that Intimidation is a Charisma skill can really be helpful.

@gavingameplay5790

3 жыл бұрын

Personally my preferred trick is halfway through the cast look them in the eyes and say "no" or something like that and it just go's out for no reason other then you deciding to.

@zotro123

3 жыл бұрын

i cant wait to do this!!

@haleyw5677

3 жыл бұрын

Or the fact that subtle spells can’t be counterspelled

Lesser known use of subtle spell: if you are playing a campaign where you’ll spend a lot of time around water, subtle spell can allow you to cast spells underwater if you are completely submerged.

@anthonynorman7545

4 жыл бұрын

+

@Jawn15

4 жыл бұрын

Water doesn't stop sound.

@anthonynorman7545

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jawn15 the dmg or PHB says that verbal components don't work under water IIRC

@Jawn15

4 жыл бұрын

@@anthonynorman7545 I'm pretty sure it does say that but I house rule that out. 1. Because its dumb. Wtf WoTC? 2. Dolphins use echo location, Orca whales use distinct unique noises to communicate with each other and varies pod to pod. 3. Water does not stop sound waves.

@anthonynorman7545

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jawn15 1. Your opinion 2. They evolved specific mechanisms to create distinct sounds under water 3. Water vastly distorts sound waves (which isn't much of a stretch to conclude the distortion would prevent the incantations of spells to be executed properly)

Subtle Spell: The entire reason I would play a Sorcerer.

@Reishadowen

4 жыл бұрын

Imagine if you dual-classed into bard...So much mischief!

@chromegaman

4 жыл бұрын

Currently playing a hapless merchant with minor obvious magic abilities; subtle spell plus crossbow plus ray spells equal I HAVE THE BEST CROSSBOW MONEY CAN BUY!

@noahmehringer29

3 жыл бұрын

It’s the ultimate f$&@ you to counterspell, if they can’t see the spell being cast, they can’t stop it

@PsyrenXY

2 жыл бұрын

You'll love Aberrant Mind then, they get free Subtle on their Psionic Spells

@diegobologni3724

2 жыл бұрын

Same here, totally must have for a spellcaster.

Distant Counterspell has saved my party more than once.

@DurandalsFate

4 жыл бұрын

RAW, this isn't supposed to work. The casting time is "1 reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell." Distant Spell only affects the range, not the trigger for the spell.

@CathyLarkinWebSavvyPR

4 жыл бұрын

@@DurandalsFate also - I thought Sorcerer didn;t get counterspell

@DurandalsFate

4 жыл бұрын

@@CathyLarkinWebSavvyPR Hmm, you may be thinking of something else. Sorcerers do have a more limited spell list than other arcane casters, but they do get Counterspell: www.dndbeyond.com/spells/counterspell

@badmojo0777

3 жыл бұрын

@@CathyLarkinWebSavvyPR based on what? Sorcerers get counterpsell on every spell list ive ever seen

@coranbaker6401

2 жыл бұрын

@@DurandalsFate RAI for the win!

I have recently created a character completely built around subtle spell. He's a Divine sorcerer And all his spells are based around Battlefield manipulation. He also acts as if he's an old man who doesn't know why he's there so in the combat he's just huddling in the corner. But in actuality he's casting crown of Madness or command on the enemies.

@tatersalad76

3 жыл бұрын

I'm playing a sorcerer like that too. Only he's a trickster, so he likes to throw around Subtle Spell to mess with people. Detect Thoughts, Suggestion, Catapult (for cheating at Shot Put a few times when not just used in fights), Polymorph, Levitate, etc.. So much chaos

@7rhymes599

3 жыл бұрын

I love having old characters use their age to mess with their enemies. Bandit camp? Old man can call his party his bodyguards, asking them to protect him! Then as he sneaks behind another player, the bandits not worried about him, he starts casting Poison Spray. Great way to keep your mage out of the front lines too.

It's great that these guys actually go into the positives and possible uses & synergies for each metamagic, not just the "strongest" choices, rather than just going "lol these suck" like so many other guides do

The most important part about the Subtle Spell metamagic is the fact that it cannot be Counterspelled (unless it also has material components). This is because Counterspell requires the Counter-caster to know that a spell is being cast. Subtle Spell makes it imperceptible.

@brycemedyn8672

4 жыл бұрын

Situational I think for the fact that if you tried this with say fireball, the red streak would give it away.

@jarodjagges599

3 жыл бұрын

@@brycemedyn8672 I'd say if they are seeing a red streak it's probably too late, the spell is already happening. Counterspell is an interruption and essentially saying screw you to the player even though they took a niche metamagic and made a smart play leads me to say "bad DMing".

@jakepietrzak7552

3 жыл бұрын

Bryce Medyn fireball has no red streak, it’s an explosion centered on a point.

@TKZ100

3 жыл бұрын

In a game, subtle spell allowed me to detect an ambush during a conversation with detect thoughts...and trigger it before the enemy got to act with a subtle fireball.

@Grintock

2 жыл бұрын

@@brycemedyn8672 Fireball has material components, so a subtle fireball can still be counterspelled. As can most offensive spells.

Spell Sniper & Distant Spell. For when you just don’t want to get out of bed.

@aldoushuxley5953

5 жыл бұрын

And now Play sorlock with for 8x eldrich blast range :) I would let my Players Roll with disadvantages at These distances though.

@btCharlie_

5 жыл бұрын

@@aldoushuxley5953 - I mean, they paid for every one of those features, I'd feel a bit cheated if a DM would do that to me, as a player. I would still argue even if they informed me beforehand, although personally I don't see much use for that kind of range anyway, so it's all very hypothetical. Edit: In fact, if a player was really intent on doing this combo thinking it's really cool, I'd try to engineer an encounter here and there where they could make use of that ridiculous range just so they'd have fun with the otherwise inefficient build.

@aldoushuxley5953

5 жыл бұрын

Well you can snipe them from a rooftop and they cant even See you. If you Play sorlock you probably have an invisible familiar, so you dont even have to be in their Line of sight to Hit...

@kristhebrownie

5 жыл бұрын

@@btCharlie_ I would require them to use some sort of binoculars or spyglass to snipe from that range, but would otherwise allow it.

@aldoushuxley5953

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, in the past 2 month I gained some experience as a DM and I take my statement back. If the player wants to specalise into range, I woud let him do that. Most combats are cc anyway, so its by no means overpowered (apart from maybe the sorlock part, but that too depends on how the player roleplays the character)

On that same note, I run Subtle and Empowered (Running Quickened later) and I have to say, Subtle Counterspell is probably the single most hilarious thing when the enemy cast is looking at themselves like: "Uh.....this doesn't happen all the time, I swear!" And that's not even including the shenanigans subtle casting can bring when being a nuisance. XD

@stevenbyers3383

5 жыл бұрын

noobhero7 this should be top comment😂

@stevenbyers3383

5 жыл бұрын

And I do have a sorcerer with subtle meta and I might have to try this😂

Subtle Spell also allows the caster to use spells when bound and/or gagged. Makes the caster way harder to pin down or imprison

@DungeonDudes

5 жыл бұрын

Only if those spells don't have a material component. Subtle Spell doesn't let you bypass the need for an arcane focus or material components.

@noobhero7

5 жыл бұрын

Thank God for Misty Step and Dimension Door XD

@AaumondHD

5 жыл бұрын

@@DungeonDudes Yup. Haven't been yet in a spot where I was stripped of my Arcane Focus, but that could happen.

@beanjuice4263

3 жыл бұрын

@@DungeonDudes subtle spell beats silence

@user-xe4xw1ws1n

3 жыл бұрын

Subtle Spell plus Warcaster ftw(just lose a hand or something and use the prosthetic as a focus)

Wish I could *twin* my like. You guys deserve more than one!

@BigggusDikkkus

4 жыл бұрын

well you will have to spend a level 9 spell slot to do it....

I really like quicken especially at lower levels just to be able to dodge or disengage or dash and still cast a spell it's very very handy

@aformofmatter8913

5 жыл бұрын

Cast a spell + use an item seems like a pretty cool combo to me. Throw some holy water on those undead while you burn them with magic fire! Use a healer's kit on your downed friend after blasting the orcs on top of him! Chug a potion, then disintegrate someone! Fun for the whole family! Creative use of items is one of the coolest things you can do in D&D in my opinion. I really like the thief archetype's ability to use them as a bonus action, and it seems like quickened spells allow for a similar sort of thing.

@AllToastersToastToast

4 жыл бұрын

You can also multiclass a martial class with the sorcerer to gain the benefit of attacking with a weapon and using a spell. I could see an assassin rogue with some levels in sorcerer take Quickened and Subtle Spells, so you can have a stealthy spellcaster who has additional disguising abilities, and all of it is still conveniently placed in your Dexterity and Charisma scores. Granted, you might not get some of the higher-level spells that a focused caster would get, but it’s kind of like an Arcane Trickster who has the abilities of a low-level sorcerer, and you’re a bit less limited on what schools of Magic you can take if you want more blasting spells to take advantage of Quickened Spell.

Excellent video guys! (Could you please add a timestamp index to the video description, so I can refer players to this vid as a tutorial resource. Thanks!)

@DungeonDudes

5 жыл бұрын

Done and done!

@foxunix101

5 жыл бұрын

AJ Pickett hey! I know you! I stole the ideas from you while you were eating cheese! Willow reference haha kinda.

@theonlymatthew.l

5 жыл бұрын

@@DungeonDudes I just want to give you gentlemen props, your content is always high quality, and you respond to your viewers much more often than the majority of other D&D channels.

i once used the fact that I was known to cast spells subtlely to deceive a boss to waste reactions and spell slots during a fight by use of deception

@saparapatepete

Жыл бұрын

Brilliant!!!

Twinning Haste is a personal favorite. Sending a Hastened barbarian and fighter into combat is a beautiful thing!

@isaac8734

3 жыл бұрын

@@gamecavalier3230 divine soul with war caster feat - adv on your concentration checks and if you fail you can use ur 2d4 option to up your score into success

@isaac8734

3 жыл бұрын

@@gamecavalier3230 yes but its a last option cause if yoy have war caster which is great to a musthave for any spell caster anyway you already will probably succeed most of those concentration checks if you play smart and try and avoid the damaging areas and opponents. A twin haste for a barbarian and a fighter can close an encounter even the difficult ones in 2-4 rounds. Just how much damage would a sorcerer would take if he stir clear and avoid in those especially if you use something lime invisibility fly greater invisibility and the likes...

@coranbaker6401

2 жыл бұрын

Playing a homebrewed Storm Sorcerer with Twinned and Quickened spell. Use Haste on the fighter and myself to run into battle with a 16 AC, smashing things with my staff and casting spells on the same turn.

@emilygordbort7300

2 жыл бұрын

@@gamecavalier3230 What the hell kind of sadistic dm are you playing with lol Like I've put my players in a fight with 3 Oni that kept disappearing and reappearing with full health 2 minutes later, and even to me it sounds like the hypothetical DM who's doing this is just pulling some bullshit Most monsters aren't gonna see a screaming mountain of muscles run up to them swinging 3 times with a battleaxe the size of a house and think "hmm, today I'm going to Disengage and try to bite the squishy old man 50 feet away"

@emilygordbort7300

2 жыл бұрын

@@gamecavalier3230 Ahhh ok, thank you for the context I thought this was some veteran hard mode DND where the DM was pulling some 4d chess shit to counter everything the party did, fighting a bunch of Shadows and a Will-o-Wisp is a much worse situation to be in Your situation sounds much more reasonable and I will take this into account with my future sorcerers

I have homebrewed that each subclass is given a free metamagic option that matches the flavor of that origin. Divine gets careful, Draconic gets empowered, Shadow gets subtle, Storm gets extended, Wild Magic gets quickened (Matt Mercer's Runechild gets Distant). This leaves off Twinned which is probably the best one and Heightened which can't be used until you get 3 points.

@DBebeful

5 жыл бұрын

I really like your idea, it is a very flavorful homemade rule!

@EchoMirage72

5 ай бұрын

Divine Soul already gets a metamagic feature at level 6 with Empowered Healing, which is just Empowered Spell, but for Healing only.

One of the backup character I made was a changeling who had grown up in a Dragonborn tribe, and used subtle spell to “copy” the Dragonborn breath weapon.

Wow I'm early. Must have Quickened my click.

@IHateNumbersOnNames

5 жыл бұрын

The C and the L came together and made a d. "Must have quickened my dick" really caught me off guard.

@MrOrdinaryGoose

4 жыл бұрын

@@IHateNumbersOnNames it doesn't seem to be a viable buff

I can see a dragonborn sorcerer using quickened meta magic to cast a spell as a bonus action, then use his action to use his breath weapon

@timpind.8237

5 жыл бұрын

crodd92 Ooooo, I never thought about it that way!

@puppetmaster1420

4 жыл бұрын

Some kind of binding skill plus breath attack not fun for the target

@johncunanan65

4 жыл бұрын

Lol this was the way I played before my character tragically died.

@SkyNinja759

4 жыл бұрын

Burning hands then breath weapon. Essentially, the 2 for 1 KFC special.

I have a dream of one day casting a delayed blast fireball and holding it for 2 minutes.

@maid_of_heart3261

3 жыл бұрын

The draconic dream

@maid_of_heart3261

3 жыл бұрын

As a suggestion for making it work: if you have a wizard in your party, forcecage or wall of force to trap your enemies while you hold the delayed blast and pray that they don't teleport out

@kaemonbonet4931

3 жыл бұрын

@@maid_of_heart3261 I've actually done the full minute once. I cast it out of sight and then went to parley with some illithids. I actually didn't take the metamagic to do the two minute thing on that character. But yeah I talked to them and deceived them into thinking I was gonna be reasonable, then they got 22d6's to the chin and realized that you don't negotiate with people who've bolted a crown onto their skull.

Personally what I thought might have been cool is to allow sorcerers to change their metamagics on a long rest. Like the idea for me is that while the spells a sorcerer knows cannot change easily, how they're able to manipulate their spells can.

The Twinned Spell option reminded me, I could never figure out why Sorcerers only get Polymorph but not True-Polymorph.

subtle spell can save your (and your party's) hide when you are gagged and bound.

@SkyNinja759

4 жыл бұрын

Just remember to keep your arcane focus tucked away in your flesh pouch (either end) to be able to cast magic.

@zorn3255

3 жыл бұрын

Don't forget other situations where you might not be able to talk or move your hands, like: - Being in a Silence field. - While underwater (depending on your DM this might be valuable, I'd personally rule you can't hold your breath and talk underwater at the same time). - While grappling a target and holding something else, or grappling two targets (unlikely for a spellcaster, but still could come up).

My Favorite Caster class in all of 5e is getting love from the Dungeon Dudes today? IT WAS MEANT TO BE!!!

Spell casting rules say "BONUS ACTION A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of I action." PHB 203 This means you can quicken a cantrip, but if you wish to cast another spell, then it has to be another cantrip. I'm posting this because it's very efficient and it's important that spell casters know how their classes work. At (pick your melee class) 2/sorcerer 3 you can cast booming blade for weapon damage + 1d8 thunder and then quicken and hit em with it again. That's 2 weapon attacks and 2d8 thunder damage for the equivalent cost of a level 1 spell slot. The neat thing is when the cantrip becomes more potent, quickened spell becomes more efficient because then it becomes 2 weapon attacks + 4d8 or 6d8 thunder damage for the equivalent cost of a level 1 spell slot.

@motymurm

4 жыл бұрын

Actually, if you wish to use quicken to cast cantrip plus spell combo, it is irrelevant which of them is a proper action and which is a bonus, because there are no rules limiting order of action/bonus action unlike dual wielding-style attacks

@haydenkelley7125

4 жыл бұрын

You also can add action surge in and deal soo much damage for some sorcery points and an action surge.

@AllThingsFascinate

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think you can stack the boom on a single target, right?

@Faircrow

4 жыл бұрын

@@AllThingsFascinate if the target moves it takes just one of the damages, but the trigger damage is separeted for each atack

@samouriyo5626

4 жыл бұрын

Lol, im plaiyng a pal2/sorcerer 5 all build around this combo.

Quickened spell: action- health potion+bonus action- spell Subtle spell: can use if captured and tied up, also can still cast spells under the silence effect

@Nurk0m0rath

5 жыл бұрын

...does this mean you can Dispel the Silence?

@SamanthaVimes177

4 жыл бұрын

@@Nurk0m0rath RAW, absolutely.

I really like how you guys really go into detail and give your input based on your experiences. Thanks!

Twinned spell is incredible for a Divine Soul. I often twin Healing Word/Cure Wounds. I regularly save us from a tpk

Quicken spell fireball. Following up with Eldritch Blast.

Also for subtle spell, you can cast magic from a zone of silence where magic would normally not be able to be cast, for those pesky people who prefer to use silence against enemy spell casters.

Honestly, I think sorcerers are just underpowered enough that I don't think it's too out of line to let them choose double the metamagic options, eventually unlocking all eight. The cost of using them is generally high enough, and some of the seemingly really powerful ones have some serious limitations, so giving more options with how to manipulate a relatively small list of known spells seems like a fair trade to me. I'd be comfortable making that homebrew call if someone wanted to play a sorcerer in my game.

@coranbaker6401

2 жыл бұрын

At least we have metamagic adept now.

Divine Soul Sorcerers also get some pretty awesome touch based debuffs like “Bestow Curse” and “Contagion” are viable if you want to ruin someone’s day out of punching and stabbing range.

Also,the detect thoughts spell and subtle is a great combo,since basically you can always learn everyone's secret when you want

Great work. I love how you broke down such a complex part of the game so simply! Love your work Monty and Kelly

6:55 1200 FEET! THAT'S INSANE! But you would probably never need that much range.

@beepboprobotsnot3748

5 жыл бұрын

Like at that point, you'd have make perception to even see the thing.

@AaumondHD

5 жыл бұрын

In a campaign with airship battles, or maybe naval battles, it might be useful. But even then, it seems *a bit* overkill

@aldoushuxley5953

5 жыл бұрын

Just be a sorlock with an invisible familiar you can See though. You are basically a Sniper Drone at this Point.

@JayF2912

5 жыл бұрын

@@aldoushuxley5953 mortar team with fireballs and lightninh

@M0ebius

5 жыл бұрын

Page 243 of the DMG says on a clear day you can see 2 miles or until your view is obscured by terrain features. In rain it’s 1 mile. In fog it’s 100-300ft. From an elevated position it’s 40 miles of visibility.

Great video guys! The strategy breakdown at the end is very helpful. I love that kind of stuff.

Hi dudes, sorcerer main here. Love the video and you hit most of the things I know and some things I didn't know! I have a couple more tips, tricks and comments to add: Careful Spell + Sleep: (edit) as stated in a comment below, this does not actually work. Please disregard this portion of my comment. Distant Spell: Really good point about the ability to use buff touch spells at a distance, I have never put much stock in this but I've probably been overlooking it. I may just have to try this out next time I make a sorcerer! Empowered Spell: Good for blasters of course, but you trade away your ability to add another metamagic to your character sheet in return for reliable damage. I rate this one similar to heightened spell, it is good in general but if you want to get creative with your character it actually hinders that, I only recommend this metamagic for players who dislike the randomness and risk of dice. Also I really wish it worked for spells like Sleep and Color Spray, because they use dice too, but RaW doesn't allow it. Quickened Spell: You guys nailed this one, but I want to emphasize it. Absolutely right, no 2 spells in 1 turn and it's usually not worth the extra damage of a cantrip. But that's not what makes this metamagic cool. It's actually still really useful in lower tiers of play, because of the way it frees up your action to interact with objects, take the disengage, dodge or attack (shove, grapple, etc) actions, escape a grapple, do skill checks and more! It allows you to safely get out of range of an enemy and then still cast a powerful spell with that bonus action. This is actually really powerful in a game like D&D where the action economy can force you to choose between a safe or tactical action and casting a cool spell. Subtle Spell: Here's something really cool... Because it removes the verbal and somatic components, you can still cast spells while bound and gagged, or grappled. I've used this several times in Curse of Strahd to pull off some amazing tricks while the party was captured and restrained. Twinned Spell: Can be used for healing spells as much as buff and debuff spells. This only really applies for Divine Soul sorcerers or players who take Magic Initiate, but it's still worth noting. You mention that mileage may vary with the tradeoff between twinning spells and buying a spellslot, the major tradeoff is action economy again - you can cast the equivalent of 2 heal spells with one action. It's worth it sometimes to give up generating a spell slot in return for twinning a buff, debuff, or heal spell.

@btCharlie_

5 жыл бұрын

I have the same exact thought about Twinned spell. I'm actually playing an experimental paladin/divine soul multiclass (because our party doesn't have a dedicated healer I decided to try this out), and I'm thinking about taking Twinned spell for Haste (from OoV paladin) and Cure Wounds in combat, combined with Extended spell for stuff like Aid (cast it before long rest to get a free 8 hours buff when you wake up) and Aura of Vitality (doubling the healing potential). My other picks would be Quickened spell for that Extra Attack and a full action spell within a single turn, and a distant spell for the ranged Cure Wounds (but I already took Healing Word, so that's not needed I guess). What would you say?

@Draeckon

5 жыл бұрын

As written, Careful Spell doesn't work with Sleep. Careful Spell specifically states that it only makes it so that select targets automatically succeed on their saving throw against the spell. Sleep, however, does not involve a saving throw at all. The targets just fall asleep if their HP is low enough to be affected.

@Sedr1s

5 жыл бұрын

@@Draeckon *facepalm* oh indeed. Welp, I'll go and edit that out. Thanks for catching that for me!

@bubbles9829

4 жыл бұрын

For Subtle Spell it removes verbal or somatic components. If a spell uses both verbal and somatic components, it just removes one of them, not both.

@foxoninetails_

4 жыл бұрын

@@bubbles9829 Subtle Spell explicitly states that "When you cast a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without *any* somatic or verbal components". It has no stipulations about removing only one or the other - a spell with only verbal and somatic components requires no components whatsoever when used with Subtle Spell (RAW, at least).

Planning on playing a sorcerer so this was a very needed video for me since I've never played one before. Thanks guys!

I wonder if you can cast Mage Armor + Extended Spell before a long rest (if you have a Sorcery Point and Spell Slot left over) so you save a spell slot the next day? (For the first 8 hours anyway.)

@btCharlie_

5 жыл бұрын

I wanna do the very same thing with Aid as a Divine Soul. Have to consult with DM if it feels too cheesy, but so far I haven't run into anything that would prohibit it - it doesn't require concentration so consciousness shouldn't be an issue and it's definitely under 24 hours.

@dxjxc91

5 жыл бұрын

These should work RAW.

@SkyNinja759

4 жыл бұрын

To be fair. Mage armour has overlap with the Draconic Ancestry bloodline, so a lot of sorcerers overlook it. Other than that, RAW mage armour seems to be really nice in a squishy heavy campaign... and when you need to protect the cliche escort quest NPC.

@user-xe4xw1ws1n

3 жыл бұрын

@@btCharlie_ Twinned Holy Weapon on your front liners would be useful to.

@gabrielrockman

3 жыл бұрын

It would work, but it's a waste to use your metamagic choice and a sorcery point to save yourself just a 1st level spell slot. If you were a Divine Soul Sorcerer with access to some much nicer spells with an 8 hour duration (like Aid), it could actually make sense to choose extended spell for your metamagic. But you need it to save you some higher level spell slots, and not just a 1st level spell slot.

about distant spell: although it doesn't do damage, Plane shift is a touch spell. Using the banish effect of the spell, you could be say, 30ft away from a death tyrant or so, but you can still send it to the plane of fire

@saparapatepete

Жыл бұрын

"you deserve to go to hell, so i'm sending you there"

As always, I enjoy and appreciate the work you two put into this. These are great refreshers/tutorials for us. Nice job.

Oh good! I've been really wanting you to make this one. Sweet!

I had Distance and Subtle for my divine soul sorcerer with 1 level of life cleric dip. Distance was really good for mass healing word, counterspell and dimension door. Subtle was mainly used for counterspell while in combat and outside of combat it's pretty nifty to be able to cast spells without people noticing.

Quickened also let's you take other actions to dash or disengage allowing you to get away from a melee attack and still get that spell attack

Interrogation with Detect Thoughts and Heightened spell is one of my favorite things to do. DMs and players alike usually forget how much impact that can have on a session and it's awesome to pull out of your back pocket. By the time they can resist with INT usually you can get what you need or even go again if they fail that contest.

Subtle spell also allows you to cast spells with verbal components in areas of silence or while underwater. Those situations may not come up often in a lot of campaigns, but when they do subtle spell is a game-changer.

@saparapatepete

Жыл бұрын

I am tempted on taking the metamagic adept feat for my arcane trickster for extra trickery, but i wonder if it's worth it with only 2 sorcery points.......

@nickm9102

2 ай бұрын

​@@saparapatepetelittle late but yes it is and since you are a Rogue subtle and empowered sound like good choices since most of what you would want to do with Quicken is given to rogue as a BA option.

One great use of extended spell that you guys might not have mentioned is mage armor. Extending the duration from 8-16 hours on mage armor means that you can cast it when you wake up and pretty much permanently have a boost to your AC without having to worry about if it’s been 8 hours from dawn.

@tylercole3738

5 жыл бұрын

Unless you are a draconic bloodline sorcerer in which case Mage Armor is redundant

@AbyssArray

5 жыл бұрын

I feel like I'd want more out of my Metamagic than a level 1 spell slot saved, there's more enticing options depending on what you want to play. Also I feel like this probably drops off towards the higher levels, if you have leftover Sorcery Points or Level 1 spell slots at the end of the day.

@AZDfox

5 жыл бұрын

@@AbyssArray it's especially good for Divine Souls, because many Cleric spells last an hour, and doubling that could make a huge difference

@AbyssArray

5 жыл бұрын

@@AZDfox I mean what spells would you end up taking? What's your role for your team? And how does Extended Spell play into it? Those are always the tough questions when DS Sorc is involved (and probably changes from campaign to campaign). I can see level 1 slots going up in value (access to Guiding Bolt, Healing Word, Cure Wounds, Bless, etc) but it's probably best used for RP sessions, where breaking the flow of the session by casting a spell would raise suspicion. But there's a lot of spells that look more situational which may be harder to take.

@alexanderoakland2607

Жыл бұрын

I used extended spell on a support/control type Divine Soul sorcerer to cast a (whatever max level spell slot I had at the time) 16 hour Aid on my party before taking a long rest during a campaign, and it made a huge difference to our survivability

Actually I once had a sorcerer twin a disintegrate, one-shoting an entire miniboss encounter of two wraiths.

Hey guys, I’ve just been listening to this for the second time - long time fan of your videos. So weird today with the UK in lockdown. Went for my ‘one allowed exercise’ with my little girl in the pram to get her to sleep. Loved the video, you fellas have been so integral at reeling me back into D&D - the school that I teach at now has 2 D&D groups and the students love it. Thanks again.

Thank you so much for this video! It was fun, and so informative for me as a sorcerer player :) I took twinned and quickened spell knowing very well I won't be using twinned spell too much until she gets Haste or Polymorph, as she has a high AC so I spend much more time quickening two Green-Flame Blades or a blast spell and going in for Green-Flame Blade.

Now I see how Overlord’s meta magic was created

One homerule I like is to give sorcerers a couple sorcery points back per short rest, say equal to CHA mod or proficiency bonus. So far as I know, sorcerers are the only full caster which receive 0 resources back on a short rest. Metamagic is pretty much Sorcerers only unique feature, so in my opinion they should be using it all the time.

@shadenox8164

5 жыл бұрын

Yep, well there's warlocks, but they can use their invocations ad infinium so its not like they need to. Plus the thing sorcerer's do eventually get is at level bloody twenty and only four points at which point is barely anything.

@M0ebius

5 жыл бұрын

I like that home rule, but it does make the Sorcerer capstone utter garbage.

@shadenox8164

5 жыл бұрын

@@M0ebius The capstone was already utter garbage for a level 20 thing so no real loss.

@M0ebius

5 жыл бұрын

Shade Nox I don’t disagree. I’m just saying if you homebrew the point recovery, then you should probably redo the capstone as well.

@shadenox8164

5 жыл бұрын

@@M0ebius Oh for sure. Surprised they haven't done any official changes yet. They have for other classes. Its kinda silly as level a 20.

Honestly, I don’t exactly know what I’m going to choose for my tabaxi stone sorcerer just yet, but I will definitely be taking empowered spell! This guide helped so much and I had moments of “well I think this would fit my character well in this situation”. So thank you so much for this guide!

Extremely useful. Thanks guys.

You two nailed it, my thoughts and yours are identical. I'll give you my 2 coppers worth of extra tidbits......Distant Meta, if you are on the ocean and doing ship to ship combat, this will provide range for the sorcerer to snipe enemy ships. Twin spell and damage, Dragon's Breath in Xanathar's guide might be one of the best uses...load up them from line types and cross fire the bad guys.....uncommon, but fun. This also brings us to Careful Spell, decent, but situational. It is better, if you are throwing damage around, take two levels of wizard and specialize in Invoker, which gives you Sculpt Spell, which is Careful spell on Steroids for damage, and you get ritual spells of level 1, which is quite a number, so you won't necessarily miss that feat as much by multi-classing.

One of the best things to extend is things like Mage Armor. Increasing AC to 13 + dex for _16_ hours! If you cast is just before a long rest, it has the same effect as casting it normally when you wake up, but for free! no spell slots or points needed.

Very helpful guys, thanks! Trying to build my first Sorc.

you guys nailed quicken spell! Cheers

I just multiclassed into Divine Soul Sorcerer and I think, once I get to the level for Metamagic, I'll get Subtle and Twin Spell as my first pair of options.

Silence + subtle spell. Knock out the enemy caster ability to cast most things, but still be able to cast yourself.

@jonnygrady9886

5 жыл бұрын

snowene - I’m glad someone has pointed this out! However it does require somebody to be able to keep the enemy spell caster within the zone of Silence as well. It also works well as a defensive tactic if Silence is cast at you.

Really enlightening stuff. Thanks.

A really great and informative video I've always wanted to play a sorcerer but it seems like a lot of work just makes it seem easier to have a clear path and a plan

I killed a troll.

@Hyperpandas

4 жыл бұрын

...and I liked it! But his breath smelled like Jerry's backpack. :(

@snarglblargn4986

3 жыл бұрын

@@Hyperpandas I GOT IT

Kinda surprised you guys never mentioned Shadow Sorcerer's Hound, it's the same SP as Heightened spell and has the same effect plus some bonuses

@DungeonDudes

5 жыл бұрын

We actually did film a section on the unique powers of each subclass but the video was already running long, so we cut it :(

That intro causes such a nice endorphin drip. Love your synchronicity.

Great food for thought, thnx guys

Just one thing I feel was missed about the twinned spell... it's especially good early game to use with level 1 damage spells! The ability to use just one sorcery point to replicate a level one spell like chromatic orb, is especially good. Especially considering the economy of spell slots vs sorcery points... the math behind conversion simply values spell slots to be more valuable. So for just one sorcery point to be able to not just replicate a level one spell slot spell, but to also cast it as an additional attack on the same turn, is ridiculous to be able to do at level 3! The reason why I felt this was a notable consideration, is because this video only emphasized the benefit of twinning a buff spell like polymorph or haste, or emphasized how bad of a waste it would be to lose 6 sorcery points plus a level 6 spell slot for a spell that may inevitably miss, which I agree would suck, but the video missed the best use of twinned spell... the great economically efficient benefit of twinning level one damage spells as an additional attack at only level 3 Sorcerer!

@jonnygrady9886

5 жыл бұрын

Groundswell Legit Coffee and Board Games - Even Twin-spelling cantrips is worth it, particularly at 5th level and above. Remember, catrips often increase in damage as you level up! A fire bolt at levels 1-4 is only worth 1d10 damage, but at 5th level this turns into 2d10 damage, at 3d10 damage at 11th level. So twin-spelling a Fire bolt at 11th level can let you do up to 6d10 damage over the two targets, for the cost of just 1 sorcery point!

@groundswelllegitcoffeeandb3810

5 жыл бұрын

Jonny Grady Wow! That's dope! I never considered that!

@AZDfox

5 жыл бұрын

And Twinning Chill Touch lets you stop healing for 2 different targets. Which is sometimes better than damage.

Quickened is also good for putting down a teetering foe or use some kind of damage+control cantrip, such was Shocking Grasp (to let you not get AoOed) or Chill Touch (to prevent a foe healing).

@johnnyv9024

5 жыл бұрын

For a Sorcadin multiclass, quicken is amazing. Quicken hold person, and if they fail their save then super smite (because crits) them to death

@crimfan

5 жыл бұрын

@@johnnyv9024 That's a good example.

@AbyssArray

5 жыл бұрын

@@johnnyv9024 Quickened Greater Invis could also work, get advantage and smack em hard

Keep up the amazing work guys. The amount of stuff I've learned from this channel is amazing. And I twinned haste for the first time a couple sessions ago and my party said the same thing. "Steven you are doing this every encounter"😂gotta love it.

@M0ebius

5 жыл бұрын

Consider picking up War Caster if you don’t already have it if you are constantly twinning Haste, even if Sorcerers have proficiency in CON saves. Losing concentration on Haste on not one but TWO teammates can easily cause a party wipe.

@stevenbyers3383

5 жыл бұрын

M0ebius yeah the problem is I am at level 5 and I only have 19 charisma. So I want to up that to 20 before I get a feat. I am also at 13 dext so I want to up that to 14 so I get a better ac and spell dc. But I would love warcaster

It’s good that Kelly played through a Sorcerer in your online campaign and can speak to all of this through his own practical experience. I’ve seen too many guides online where people are just theory crafting.

Twinned spell's ability to double concentration is tiers above all other metamagic.

Interesting Twin Spell - last night I ruled “incorrectly” with a Magic Missile that was only one missile, and I let them do it.

@ronn-ammon8975

4 жыл бұрын

David Wilson : I was actually thinking I disagree wit The Dudes on this one. It says the spell cannot target more than one being at the spells "CURRENT level" right? Well even though a spell like Magic Missile has the potential for multiple targets at higher levels, if the low, "current " level of that spell at 1st level, is a single targeting spell; then by strict adherence tothe wording of the rule, it would be (currently) eligible.

@obsolete18

4 жыл бұрын

Ronn -Ammon lvl 1 magic missile shoots 3 darts which can all target different creatures

@ronn-ammon8975

4 жыл бұрын

obsolete18 : Thanks.👍🏻👍🏽👍🏿I must'' ve had my head in a previous edition when I wrote that.

One of my first ever characters was a sorcerer, and I took Subtle and Twinned for my metamagics. I like to play support casters, and as such, I found myself almost always using Twinned Invisibility/Enhance Ability/Haste/etc., and we got a ton of good mileage out of it. Subtle Spell also saved our asses on more than one occasion, and even when it’s not a critical part of our interactions, it’s still always good to have around.

Divine Soul extending Aid before a long rest though. Then also using Hero’s Feast. Really useful 🥰

There should be a feat option, allowing you to add a metamagic to your list of known, and also use it on a L1-3 spell 1/ long rest.

@snarwhal

8 ай бұрын

I’m from the future, And I have news for you, You’re not gonna believe this…

Sorlock, quickened spell. Witch bolt. Need I say more

@derekbrogan5008

3 жыл бұрын

So Palpatine?

Super helpful! Abt to play my first sorc and I appreciated this

This is very helpful, thanks. I’ve recently made a Sorcerer, but haven’t had a chance to play her yet. It’s great to be familiar with meta magic before I have to make any of these decisions.

I've seen a party that was 4 rogues and a sorcerer. Really odd, because they had to do some funny stuff for some encounters, but the sorc took careful spell, and...well, Evasion is a thing.

I’d like to add that even using Twinned Spell for damage dealing cantrips can be an efficient use of Sorcery points, particularly at higher levels. Remember cantrips often increase in damage as you level - I think a *lot* of players forget this. For instance, at 5th level a firebolt deals 2d10 damage; at 11th level a firebolt deals 3d10 damage. If you Twin-Spell a firebolt at 11th level, you can potentially deal an insane 6d10 damage (across the two targets) for the cost only 1 solitary sorcery point! So, for literally half the cost of a First level Spell, you can deal 4d10 damage by 5th level, 6d10 by 11th level and, if you’re really game, 8d10 by 17th level, all in one round. Of course, the down sides are that (1) this damage has to be split across two targets and (2) if an attack misses or the target saves, there is no ‘half-damage on a successful save’ as you often get for true levelled spells.

@AZDfox

5 жыл бұрын

And if you cast Chill Touch, you can stop all healing for 2 targets as well as damage them.

@jimcree3283

3 жыл бұрын

I think I’d prefer to quicken Edritch Blast and hit 1-4 targets up to 8 at 17th level

Read the errata on twinned spell late. Was causing 100+ damage (2 crits, had advantage) on twinned agonizing blast + quickened agonizing blast at lv7. Good thing the DM asked me to look it up once more.

Great video as always.

Hey, twinned spell. I argue dragons breath works. When you cast the spell it can only ever target one creature similar to haste.

@dxjxc91

5 жыл бұрын

I have a character concept for a kobold dragon blood sorcerer who does exactly this.

@M0ebius

5 жыл бұрын

Not legal according to Sage Advice but I ran it for awhile twinning it on party members’ Owl and Imp familiar that took turns firing the cone straight down from 15ft in the air to cover 9x9 squares. It was completely broken in the early levels, and even in tier 2 play it was insanely strong and virtually replaced every other AOE options.

@dxjxc91

5 жыл бұрын

@@M0ebius I couldn't find anything in the SA compendium. Which part are you saying is illegal? The twinning or the cone from above?

@M0ebius

5 жыл бұрын

dxjxc91 Twin. www.google.com/amp/s/www.sageadvice.eu/2018/12/22/is-is-possible-to-twin-spell-booming-blade/amp/

@jasonbolding3481

4 жыл бұрын

@@M0ebius interestingly that never made it into sage advice compendium, which now is the officially rulings

I feel like I've got so many characters on standby but never get to play any of them :(

Currently using Distant and Quickened Spell. Multiclassed into Rogue Inquisitve and have made Shadow Blade my preferred spell. Superior Arcane Trickster achieved.

I remember when we were waiting for our contact in a room and Bard realized he forgot to buy something. I excused myself for a moment, flipped birds with a Barbarian and came back with a thing after using 2 Distant Dimension Doors. One of my favorite Metamagic combos

The meta magic I want is "store spell" allowing an object you touch to hold a spell for x amount of time, and released by a predetermined trigger like when damaged, damaging something, an action like rubbing or twisting, a phrase, etc. Also all effects happen at the location of the triggered object. So a rock with fireball stored in it will go off at the location of the rock. As for cost, I think 1 per spell level would be appropriate or 2 per level if this metamagic seems too effective. I see how it could impose on subtle spell or other meta magics.

@JelenedraKTulsa

2 жыл бұрын

What you are wanting here is the cleric spell Glyph of Warding. (I think that is the name). You're not going to get a meta magic that replicates a third level spell that requires a bunch of diamond dust to cast.

Just found you guys and fell in love with the content. Perhaps a few compliments and critiques? Extremely professional! Very knowledgeable about what you're talking about! A lot of charisma. Incredibly smooth editing! Honestly my only criticism is that your hand movements sometimes become repetitive and can be distracting. Ultimately didn't take away from my enjoyment and learning, but it could be easily improved by varying the way your hands move. Really enjoyed the vid! Subbed!!

I've used Twin spell on witch bolt and the visual effect was massive, and effective for my 3rd lv lighting dragon heritage sorc

Definitely picking quickened at lvl 10. As an aasimar sorc, being able to get my wings and then cast a spell is really good

distant spell and subtle spell on counterspell makes you the ultimate counter speller. Take 2 levels in bard and Bam; Cha mod + 1/2 prof and they will never be able to counter spell your counterspell.

@jamesgrant3752

5 жыл бұрын

Abjuration wizard add their whole proficiency bonus and hence would counterspell your bards counterspell.

@Greginda11

5 жыл бұрын

@@jamesgrant3752 subtle spell is unseen within 60 ft and distant spell makes yours out of range upto 120 ft.

@jamesgrant3752

5 жыл бұрын

Correct. I wasn't thinking about the metamagics for some reason when posted this. I was only worried about pointing out that abjurers get better counterpells than bards. Lol.

@jamesgrant3752

5 жыл бұрын

Infact my current favorite build is a 14 abjurer, 5 divine soul, 1 any warlock for armor of agathys and hellish rebuke. Quicken and subtle for metamagics. Character is awesome.

@Kipex

5 жыл бұрын

Posted the same to another one suggesting distant spell and counterspell, but it doesn't work: You need to cast a spell to be able to use the metamagic, and to be able to cast Counterspell, they already have to be within 60 feet.

Just take a familiar.... no need for distant metamagic...my divine soul sorcerer uses his owl familiar to heal the party “on the fly”😆

@AZDfox

5 жыл бұрын

I do the same.

@theonlymatthew.l

4 жыл бұрын

I have employed that tactic myself. But what are you going to do if someone shoots an arrow and kills your spell delivering Owl?

Subtle Spell is also a perfect way to circumvent the effects of Silence, or to get around what I consider the greatest Achilles heel of spellcasters: being bound and gagged (so long as the spell doesn’t need material components). I’m working on a character right now that is a multiclass of rogue and sorcerer. Think of Corvo or Daud from Dishonored and you’re pretty much there.

We once triggered 4 encounters at once, all of them zombies, in a tight corridor leading to a dead end room. One of us twin-spelled Dragon's Breath, and we just barely won. Adventuring Rule #12: Dragon's Breath: It just works.

When you realize that you can twin spell Dragon's breath and the errata is in your favor. "time to hand out double breath weapons and cross the beams.

@corwyncorey3703

3 жыл бұрын

“It would be bad to cross the streams...” “Define bad, Egon.”

@joak9992

3 жыл бұрын

Twin dragon's breath is very useful for hoard clearing

23:10 detect thots: my favourite spell

@caiosergio5775

4 жыл бұрын

I reccomend banishing to the Shadowrealm anything that happens to give a positive signal to this spells

Great vid. I might wanna play a sorcerer now.

Being able to cast Chill Touch every round to shut down enemy healing or regeneration on a specific target while still being able to cast a levelled spell is pretty nice even at low levels.