Thank you for your video, it was a wealth of information. The video helped me to decided to go solar. It will be sometime before the actual installation of the system and I hope to learn a great deal more from you. Again, thanks.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

I’m confident you won’t regret your decision :)

Thanks geek!

Hi thats very interesting, and a good explanation. I had come to a similar conclusion with my solar system, about 7 years payback. Its 5.7kwp of panels 5kw solis inverter and a 7.6kwh battery, and the cost just over what you quote. I worked out the optimum battery size by recording the house usage over 24 hours, although I dont usually get enough solar(in cornwall) during Nov Dec and Jan, to fully charge the battery. I dont have a dual tarrif at the moment. The remaining months I use little if any from the grid.

Many thanks and very timely. Your installation costs also show how much a similar installation cost has increased in 2022.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I've seen quotes that friends have had and they are easily up to 50% more now which is shocking. That's why I've clarified my costs as from a quote in August 2021.

I think of it as an investment in my home and the security of paying less out every month. A battery enables me to buy cheap electricity during off peak and use during peak is solar is too low. I now pay £100 per month with my tariff starting April 23. This £100 covers all my home use, including ASHP for heating and hot water , electric oven and my EV to travel approx, 900 miles. Mine has paid back also around 7 years. Currently my smart meter display shows mostly my cost as being the standing charge!

Two things that might skew the payback, 1. Bank of England mandate is to target 2% inflation, so unless they are loosing control, we should come back towards this figure, not 5%. 2. As the push continues to get folks off gas, levies will be transferred from the electricity prices to gas, which could have a significant impact on these current sky high electric costs. Current electric costs are hurting the economy & SME's in particular.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

7 ай бұрын

Yup I agree, it's a finger-in-the-air prediction and I've provided the spreadsheet so as you can tweak as you see fit. I'm still recording my data so I'll be able to compare real figures against the prediction soon. I'll try to do that every year so the process becomes more accurate the further down the line we get.

@jimmaxwell2259

7 ай бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Great work and well worthwhile.

Thanks for your excellent and detailed presentation. I used your spreadsheet as a basis for my calculations although I made mine less complicated as before changing to Octopus I was with OVO on a single use tariff so no need for the Peak / off peak split. I had to check my bills and accounts several times as I couldn't believe the figures. By changing to LED lights, new tvs and other measures I have managed to reduce general usage from an annual average of 6000 kwh to just over 3500 kwh and also sold back to the grid around 3800 kwh. My calculations suggest like others that payback will be after 7 years but of course the future is uncertain so I can't be too smug! Thanks

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

That’s a good saving. I’ve been on LED/low energy lights for over a decade and have been very conscious of keeping our consumption down over the years so I haven’t got much headway to save anything without sacrificing quality of life. Like not watching TV or sitting in the dark! Or, heaven forbid, turning off my router.

@grahamdavidson9492

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech My retirement triggered the start of the process and being home more during COVID really highlighted our electricity wastage. My family are also all onboard too and it means we have cash for treats which especially now just wouldn't be possible otherwise.

Thanks very much for a refreshingly clear and concise summary of this topical issue. I have been doing virtual battery simulations for my installation which has solar panels and an immersion heater and com eto similar conclusions. The burning quetion now is will I get an electric car in the next few years and be able to use it as V2H (Vehicle to Home) battery storage and so not really need a home battery? Hopefully you have a video about this is due course? Thanks again.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

I won't be doing a video on V2G/V2H any time soon I'm afraid. At the moment in the UK there's only really the Nissan Leaf which supports it, and even then it's not mainstream and available via specialist trials only. Rumour has it that Renault are working on bringing it to their cars using the Type 2 connector but I think we're still several years off this being normal. Very frustrating when I have a 45kWh battery sitting on my drive in my Corsa-e that's 80% full, but my GivEnergy battery is empty in the evenings.

I just had the thought ‘if I get a Gas boiler installed, I never think when will I get my money back’.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

4 ай бұрын

Yes I agree because a boiler’s primary purpose is to heat your home. Solar panels and batteries however are designed to reduce how much energy you import from the grid and therefore do provide you with a monetary saving on your bills that can ultimately end up paying for themselves.

Very useful insights. I made simulations on the payback time. In my case, for solar panels only, it is about 4-5 years, whereas for a battery I "expected" it to be 10 years (I did not yet have real data to calculate). So, in theory, the payback time for solar + battery is about 6-7 years. I recently started measuring the daily solar excess injection to the grid to simulate what would happen if I could store it in a battery and what the optimal size of the battery would be. If the battery is (too) big, you do not have enough solar excess to fill it every day during winter. If it's too small, you still need to consume a lot from the grid. Based on data of the last 2 months (Nov-Dec), the optimal battery size would be 10 kW. In the simulations of different battery sizes, I also see that the first kW are generating the most profit. 1 till 5 kW battery generates the most profit; as of 5 kW the curve starts to flatten and above 10 kW there is no additional profit any more. This is of course in my situation, but probably helpful for others to calculate it that way. I will keep logging the data for a year to finally decide on a battery. Honestly, with only 2 months of data, I think that battery payback time will be less than 10 years; maybe around 6-7.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully :) Almost certainly I'll be doing another video in a year to see how accurate my predictions have been. There's no point making a prediction if you never check how you're doing against it!

@djtaylorutube

Жыл бұрын

I think you're on the right track. I started with an 8kWh battery. I wasn't generating that much excess but part of that would be me consuming too much as base load. With the changes in energy pricing, I've been diligent about removing base load and with some effort, we found that if we charge the battery on cheap rate, even through most winter days, other than the really grim ones, solar would cover the base load. Then we'd just about manage to run from 4pm to about midnight or even right through to the 2am of our cheap rate. It was right on the edge though. I've since added another 4kWh battery to this and I'm expecting to mix that with part off peak charge and part solar. In either case, if I charge the battery too much overnight, the car is a good excess solar sink.

Very interesting info... I've just had a 4.9kwh/p system installed with a Solis (G98) and a pair of Pylontech US5000 batteries (usueable 9.2Kw).. I had it about a week and so far I've not used any actual power from the grid to run the home. I have 2 EV's and they charge on off peak (7.5p) and they do drain the battery down to 12% at night. The Zappi handles that...

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

Very nice setup! I know someone with a bank of Pylontech batteries (I think about 16kWh total) and they're very pleased with it.

@doriancreber7139

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech To be honest I wanted somthing I could add to... I have room for another 2 🙂

Hey, I've got a Solar system and battery, similar to yours actually. 7.4kw array with solaredge invertor and 9.5 giv battery. I was looking at adding in an Eddi for the immersion, but I also discovered the tesla smart immersion rod and was wondering why not to just go for that over the eddi... any thoughts?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

The T-smart immersion heater is just a remotely controllable immersion heater so it's either on full power (3kW) or off. The Eddi (or iBoost / other solar diverter) on the other hand is able to adjust the power to match your excess export energy. So if you're exporting only 500w then Eddi will divert just that 500w to the immersion heater.

Hi, awesome video, thank you!! You have a lot more components than I thought were needed, I thought we only needed the panels, one inverter, and batteries. Do you have a diagram of your installed components, so we can understand the wiring that's needed? Thanks!

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

9 ай бұрын

Thanks! I don't have a diagram, but that's not a bad idea for a video - a walkthrough of the connectivity and components. I'll try and sort that but it'll be a few weeks

@ricardojts

9 ай бұрын

Awesome, thanks @@SpeakToTheGeekTech

So, from these calculations, with a break even in 7 years, you are effectively earning 11% annual interest on your investment (ignoring any extra maintenance/replacement costs). However, the reality is that energy costs are currently falling by 7% instead of rising by the assumed 5%. This makes the long term calculations difficult until energy costs settle, and then start rising again by normal percentages. Putting that money in a stocks and shares ISA will get you 8 or 9% average over the long term. So the return on investment is probably going to be similar. So the pros are: You can survive power cuts, largely unaffected. You are less affected by price spikes. You are doing your bit for the planet. The cons are: Ugly (some might disagree) panels on the roof. Multiple boxes/panels/batteries combined take up about the space of a small fridge freezer in the house/garage. A complicated system. Increased parts and servicing costs. Monitoring a spreadsheet to make yourself as efficient as possible to achieve the best savings.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

15 күн бұрын

You're mostly not wrong, yes, but the monitoring in a spreadsheet part is most certainly a pro :) If you are of the mind that this is a financial investment along the lines of any other purely financial investment, then that is the wrong approach to take in my point of view. Take your money and put it wherever you think is best as an investment - you will not be happy otherwise! If however you are all for the pros you have listed and want to reduce your monthly energy costs, then considering the purchase as also being an investment of sorts as a bonus is a better way of thinking about it.

@Dunk1970

15 күн бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Well it was a "Payback Calculator - with real data! How long does it take to get your money back?" video. :) The Pro about saving the planet is a big one. I can't do any of this at the moment, as we live in a Grade II listed building in a conservation area. I'm looking as we will be moving in the next year though. One of the houses we've looked at had solar panels and a heat pump. Your video has helped me work out what benefit that system is providing ... as well as the fact that one of the bedrooms lost a fitted wardobe to half the gubbins.

Two questions- the “home demand” is there a way to generate this figure without home assistant? And two, we run two eVs, obviously this significantly skews the off peak data. I have a total of how much off peak charging was performed per month, so I just subtract this from the monthly usage to get a more realistic figure?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

7 ай бұрын

Yes, you don't need Home Assistant but you must still have a system which is collecting the same data. Home Demand is essentially calculated by working out (grid energy imported + solar energy generated - grid energy exported - battery energy charged + battery energy discharged), or at least I think that's the formula, maybe double check it! Charging your cars is all part of your home demand so should be included, it certainly is in my calculations. All it does is skew the percentage used off-peak as you said, but that's not a problem because it's the change in moving your use to off-peak that you're interested in rather than the actual value itself.

Good video 👍 I personally believe your ROI is faster if you consider the increase in value to your home. I'd guess a setup like yours adds 5k to your homes value, reducing ROI to about 3 years. An important consideration for us Brits who covet house value so highly and move home so often 🙂

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

You're probably right, but I don't plan on moving, and including solar as part of the house value is not something I needed to consider. It's also debated as to whether or not they add value. Personally I think they do, but I've heard that some estate agents don't agree. Either way, the more common solar panels become, the less of a 'thing' that will be.

@derekcole4949

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Estate Agents have historically been put off by the old "rent a roof" schemes that add complexity to a house sale. Fully owned solar and battery doesnt suffer from this issue and numerous reports show they add value. Cruicially they increase the EPC rating of a house. As an EPC of C and above will be mandated for rental propery make beyond 2025 so it will without doubt add value. I fully understand this is not a motivator or consideration for you, but it is should be considered by most people considering solar and battery. I'd estimate that my 5kW array and 9.5kWh battery setup which cost £10.5k has added £5k to my property value, reducing payback to about 3 years. When this is considered it unblocks a large issue that people have with solar which is "why bother with solar if I'm moving house in the next few years?"

My installer gave me a payback calculation as part of the quote, which was a very similar end result to yours. This included panel degradation. However it did not include the benefit of shifting grid draw on cloudy days to off peak. One question for you - at this time of year, my system either seems to generate 9-12 kwh or

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

So you’ve not yet had your panels running through the summer? You’ll be very pleased when we get to about May then :) generation is worlds apart between winter and summer. In June I was regularly hitting 30kWh but at the moment I’m getting 1-2kWh a day, occasionally hitting 8 if conditions are particularly good.

@AndrewEbling

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech thank you. Yes that's right - been running 3 weeks so far. Just had 3 days of decent winter sun generation and we're virtually self-sufficient for electricity, but only because EV was in the garage for repair. What does a typical cloudy day of generation in the summer look like for you?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

It can still vary massively, so in June there were a few days where I generated

As you mention batteries and inverters have a limited life, so need replacing and that needs factoring in. I suspect the savings all come from the panels and eddi, and the battery actually eats into that saving - at current costs I can't make adding a battery to my setup worth the while without expecting 2 full charge cycles a day - which isn't realistic IMHO

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

8 ай бұрын

They are expensive, yes, I can't hide that fact! But, my current numbers show that the battery (combined with an off-peak tariff and solar) is accounting for over half of my bill savings. The eddi on the other hand is negligible - in fact I think overall it's costing me money but I'm doing that on purpose to avoid using the boiler. I get a bit of free hot water from it, but mostly I boost using the eddi from the batteries if we need a shower (so the batteries are necessary for that), and then I boost off-peak at night ready for morning showers. In the winter, I could use the boiler much more cheaply to heat the hot water as the circuit is already up to temperature for the heating, but I still use the eddi to reduce gas usage. And life expectancy is tricky - yes I agree that needs to be considered, and we are early adopters so we don't truly know how well they will age. If they last to pay themselves off (which I have every confidence in) then that's great, but even better if they last twice that and beyond. We shall see, and I shall keep updating as I get more data.

Hi, and thanks for this - very helpful. I'm trying to populate the actuals for my "plant" demand (how much my house is drawing) from the grid. I've had a SMETS2 from May-2022. I have a Glow IHD/CAD. I am just starting to play with HA so son't have all the energy data in HA from the MQTT IHD feed. Are you aware of a way I can extract the actual grid supplied data from the IHD via data extract rather than me copy/paste hour by hour from May-22 to now!!! Or is there a way to have HA "pull" all the historic data from the IHD and then is there a way to extract the data from HA? Any pointers would be most welcome!!!

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

There is no easy way to do this, but if you're simply after historic energy consumption then you can use the Glow API to get the resource readings for a specific time period. (docs.glowmarkt.com/GlowmarktAPIDataRetrievalDocumentationIndividualUserForBright.pdf). It'll return the data in JSON format so you'd need to parse that afterwards. If you're an Octopus Energy customer, then they also have an API that you can query to retrieve your historic data, or you can log in to your account, view your usage, and output a file for the dates required (there's a big button saying Download your smart data). But... if you're hoping to put that data back in to Home Assistant then other than manually copying and pasting in hourly data to historical entities as a 'fix', the only other alternative is inserting it into the database directly using a lot more scripting and processing! Yeah, I tried for my gas data because it switched from m3 to kWh when I moved to using local MQTT. Lost several months of gas data, tried to rescue it, decided it wasn't worth the effort...

@rolandashdown4903

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thanks for this - appreciated. Can I ask a question about your config.yaml for the IHD sensors? I see you've got "energy-import-daily-peak" and "energy-import-daily-off-peak". Would you be able to share what you did, over and above the tutorial and code for your Glow IHD config.yaml, please? I have a worrying feeling that the code will get a little messy what with all the different tariffs from year to year, and Eco7 having different peak/off-peak times to Go, etc... But again, thanks.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

That's a good video idea actually, I've added it to my to-do list. There are a few steps to take - firstly you need to make sure your grid import energy sensor is wrapped in a Utility Meter. I can't get the GUI to work for tariff-based meters so you'd need to do it by editing your configuration.yaml. Add a meter like this replacing the source with your actual energy sensor: utility_meter: # Using smart meter energy energy_import_daily: source: sensor.smart_meter_electricity_energy_import cycle: daily tariffs: - peak - offpeak Then you need to create an automation to toggle between the peak and off-peak times. Create two time-only helpers called "Off Peak Energy Start'" and "Off Peak Energy End". Add them to your dashboard, then set the times to 00:30 and 04:30 or whatever your off-peak hours are. Then create a new automation and paste this in: alias: "Energy: Peak and Offpeak Tariffs" description: "" trigger: - platform: time at: input_datetime.off_peak_energy_end variables: tariff: peak - platform: time at: input_datetime.off_peak_energy_start variables: tariff: offpeak action: - service: select.select_option target: entity_id: select.energy_import_daily data: option: "{{ tariff }}" mode: single Don't forget to restart Home Assistant to make sure that the Utility Meter is created properly.

12:00 i would love to know where you can get a system for such low cost- panels inverter and battery for £10k? I purchased similar size for £7k without battery and quotes for battery system in region of £11 to £20k!

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

8 ай бұрын

Prices correct as of October 2021 :) However I do know someone who has just had a similar system installed for about £12k (9.5kWh battery, hybrid GE inverter, 10x 410W panels) in Birmingham, UK. I guess there's a big variation on cost based on location in the country and the installers themselves.

Interesting. I have recently added battery storage to an existing PV system so want to analyse just that part of my system. Do you have any thoughts on efficiency losses; i.e. should the increase in off-peak demand be a bit bigger than the reduction in peak demand (or vice versa) - would 10% be in the right ballpark?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

10% is the right ballpark for losses when charging it I reckon. Last night for example I used 6.5 kWh to charge my battery from 26%-100%. So 74% of 8.2kWh capacity would be 6.068kWh which is a very rough loss of 10%. I think there might also be reserved capacity in that 8.2kWh that I should consider so perhaps the losses are even less than that.

@allan4787

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech There are losses in the other direction too - surely? DC to AC

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

Yeah there will be, difficult to measure that though. I think the overall picture though is one of me being better off for being able to store and use excess solar and off-peak energy during peak times than without the battery. My bills are definitely a lot lower!

I tried your sheet but I have free nights and I messed up somewhere filling it out. A a new owner. Is the ROI put into practical use by actually paying down loan with the savings? Now that I have added a battery my weekly charges are just the occasional trickles from grid. Maybe a dollar or two a week. So I am planning on taking that approximately 100 to 200 a month and apply to loan. Except maybe my birthday month and Christmas 😊

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

I'd not actually considered a scenario of purchasing the system using a loan, that does complicate things. I think that the simplest thing to do is to use the total figure of what you will pay over the loan period including interest and put that in as the upfront total spend figure. The spreadsheet would then give you an idea of when you would break even if you had paid it all up front and you can compare that time period to your loan period. The alternative would be to totally re-write the spreadsheet on a monthly basis against your outgoing loan payments.

I wish people would stop looking at paynack period and instead look at Present Value or IRR which are arguably more important.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

7 ай бұрын

I agree, but payback (which is still applicable with technology such as solar and batteries) is something most people understand because of mortgages and loans, and there's a definite cut-off period at which your savings have been made. It's far easier to visualise you must agree?

@nosondaitchman9073

7 ай бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech It can be very deceptive. Many "investments" have a payback period that looks okay but have a negative NPV and a terrible IRR.

Which part of the UK are you in?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

South Wales

You said your treating your investment as stand-alone, but NPV is still an essential requirement to get the true cost and payback, which will likely be many years later than you calculate, also there is no mark-down on equipment costs as they have a finite life, batteries for example have a typical 10-year life and so there needs to be provisioning of capital to replace them, the same for the inverter as capacitors have a typical life of 10-years, replacement is the only option for the inverter. Finally the solar panel outputs degrade over time so you should add a depreciating factor for solar generation and inflation to all direct costs.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

But NPV in context is only really appropriate for businesses who wish to understand the asset value of the system after x years. Yes, the components have a finite life, but even assuming 10 years lifespan then my payback is sooner than that, and during that whole time I have taken a significant chunk of my burden off the grid. The solar panel degradation has been excluded because it's only 0.5% year (average figures from the MCS quote), and in my calculations when combined with the battery offset the degradation over 10 years makes barely any difference to the end result but added complexity. I'm not sure why you think the payback time would be considerably more, but you're more than welcome to adjust my spreadsheet to demonstrate what you consider is the correct approach, it's why I have shared the data - so as all alternative models can be discussed.

If batteries were half the price of what it is today, it'd be worth it. It's only after when you break even the return on investment starts. By then the battery performance will be much less. A few more years later and the battery will need replacement. If the government had a rebate for batteries, more people will buy them. Maximising solar usage during the day and being a smart consumer at night time would yield more savings than the return from a battery.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

5 ай бұрын

I disagree, being a smart consumer is one thing, the batteries just turbo charge that effort. I honestly don't know if the batteries will be any good in another 7 years or not, but mine will have broken even within another 5 years from now so we shall see. Whatever benefits they offer after that is a bonus and I'll have been reducing peak demand on the grid during that time too. I agree that the government could do more to incentivise buyers though and the removal in VAT this month was a great first step.

i'm still not understanding how to put my data in and get my ROI for my solar/battery usage, i also have an EV so idk if to include that or not... running HA with all teh data, just not sure how to put it in

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

3 күн бұрын

My demo and spreadsheet is more a starting point for the logic rather than a generic solution for everyone. I have an update coming out in a couple of weeks which may help you. Perhaps I’ll put together a generic solution that anyone could use but the problem is everyone’s setup and usage is different so it’s very difficult to do.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

3 күн бұрын

The energy used to charge your EV should count though… it’s all part of your demand.

@Joshie120

3 күн бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Can we connect on a call, i'm happy to pay ?

Interesting and good real data, nice one. But what is the degradation of the battery, solar panels (5% over 10 years) and inverter life ? If the battery is good for 3000 cycles and you empty it each day charging via solar or cheaper rate grid then it will last about 8 years. There is an additional figure to consider as the battery might loose 30% of its capacity over the 8 years. In 10 years your panels will loose 5% (ish) so not much. Inverters do fail or become obsolete due to software changes / upgrades so budgeting for this is a good idea by saving £50 to £100 per year. Your 8kwh battery might be 5.6kwh after 8 years so adding a 3kwh battery will cost £1000 to £1500 estimated (replacing the battery would be about £5k estimated). You might be lucky and still have 6kwh but eventually the battery will have reduce capacity. Cleaning the panels is another cost so as an estimate £100 per year. Maintenance of system required ?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

The battery warranty is no more than 30% loss of capacity over 10 years. They’re expected to be considerably better - way more than 3000 cycles given the chemistry being used. Warranty says 5000 over 10 years is fair use. But yes, it’s to be kept in mind and something I’ll see in the data as I keep track of this. As for cleaning, two people I know have had their panels cleaned and neither of them saw any noticeable increase in production. Perhaps they were lucky.

@tedbearfudge

Жыл бұрын

Hi Richard, thanks for the comment, did not think I would have to teach you spelling though (only one "o" in lose) ha ha ha

@RB-lt8kt

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech With Lithium Ion batteries the way you charge and discharge the battery will determine the loss of capacity as some EV car drivers have found. 5% loss in first 12 months is quite common. Rapid charging does reduce the life time capacity. As a lot of You Tubers have stated some battery makes are better than others. I was just pointing out you need to account for this in your energy savings over 10 years.

@RB-lt8kt

Жыл бұрын

@@tedbearfudge LOL. Solar is so confusing and getting the right advice can be a mine field as installers use stats to make solar look like the wonder fuel. Solar is good and can save you money but over panel arrays can be expensive mistake if you can not use all the energy due to your supplier not paying a fair price for your excess energy. Buyer beware and look at battery specs before handing over thousands of £.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

Yeah does need to be considered. GivEnergy use Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) chemistry rather than the NMC chemistry used in cars. This makes them more stable and less likely to lose capacity as quickly, but at the cost of reduced power output and weight, hence they're not normally suitable for vehicles. However it seems as though Tesla might have got around that limitation because they're starting to use LiFePo4 in their cars...

Quick question, did your eps also include an local earth rod?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

Yes, earth rod too but they don't cost much. The electrician just hammered one into the ground near my meter box and ran a short earth cable into there to join with the existing earth circuit.

@G6EJD

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech a bit of a cowboy electrician then how did he know there were no other services underground, water, gas etc. He should have undertaken a ground scan.

@Brian-ug3cy

Жыл бұрын

Thanks and also many thanks for the home assistant videos, I'm teetering on the edge of jumping in, maybe in the new year. Just for clarification, the eps runs only from the battery. It doesn't let you use solar if the power cut was during a sunny day, is my understanding correct?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

For my AC-coupled GivEnergy inverter you are correct, it will not keep the separate SolarEdge inverter I have going during a power cut so the only power the EPS circuit gets is from the battery. If you have a hybrid GivEnergy inverter though (which also connects to your solar panels) then power can come from both the battery and panels.

@Brian-ug3cy

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thanks, I was hoping the hybrid inverter would operate that way. The electrician who gave me a quote assured me the Givenergy hybrid would only operate from the battery in eps mode.

Very well explained video but you need to include the cost of borrowing imho. You can’t really calculate a payback period without it.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

11 ай бұрын

As in a loan to cover the initial cost of the system?

@jasonburford2013

11 ай бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech yes or the opportunity cost of interest. You do explain why you don’t include it but I just disagree lol. I’m looking at a 20kwh battery system with no solar to take advantage of intelligent octopus but the payback is something like 18 years if you take into account the cost of borrowing. I just can’t justify the outlay which is frustrating.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

11 ай бұрын

Ah. So by your logic I would have to do a customised calculation based on all of the various potential scenarios that might arise. Or... I do one generic scenario that excludes the payment method or interest lost, and you add that on or compare to that afterwards. I was trying to be as widely useful as possible really. On the subject of loans though, I couldn't obviously recommend any financial options or even suggest it's worth a loan (personally I wouldn't want to borrow to pay for solar or batteries). However, if you have a Nationwide Mortgage then they are currently offering 'green additional borrowing' at a 0% rate. Must be totally for a green purpose (heat pump, solar, etc...).

@jasonburford2013

11 ай бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I think you made your arguments very well in the video in general and I wasn't aware of 0% green loans so I'll look into that thanks.

Who did the installation for you.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

It was a small company in South Wales called Limitless Energy. They specialise in heating/heat pump installations but also install solar PV and batteries. Overall I'm very pleased with their work - a few delays due to Covid and stock availability which weren't their fault at all, but it's in and working well. They even ran the DC cables from the roof to my garage through the cavity wall which means no visible trunking on the outside of the property. I have a hatred of trunking!

I can not download the excel sheet

@benjaminwebster2

5 ай бұрын

sorry I cna good stuff

It would be interesting to know how much solar you produced for each month of the year then people can use your data as a guide to look at the electricity demand for their house.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

I’ve done just that in a different series of videos. This is part 3 but if you want to see the first 9 months data too then watch part 1 and 2 (you can skip to the data parts of course!) SolarEdge vs Enphase Part 3 - End Of Year Finale kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZnyOtpuBe6TNXag.html

@RB-lt8kt

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech OK thank yoiu I will look

Thanks for the video. A couple of points. Building in that 54/46% Nov split into the model and extrapolating into the future would lead to big errors if it wasn't an accurate reading of your average usage throughout the year. Hopefully it was in the ball park. Secondly, the savings might be more fairly set against the lowest fixed rate tariff on the market rather than the Go tariff, unless it is meant for the population who already have a reason to be on the Go tariff, like an EV owner. You have prob moved on from this video but if you see the comment, are you happy with the Givenergy battery? They appear to be one of the most available and cost effective in the UK market.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

I was casually tracking the split between peak/off-peak prior to getting solar after getting an EV and Octopus Go a few months earlier. Sadly I had no definite data to back it up, hence starting in November, but it is ballpark accurate - I do wish I'd been monitoring it properly for the previous two years or so though! Hindsight and all that :) The spreadsheet is there for anyone to edit and include their own tariffs if they'd like, but the use of a peak/offpeak tariff is the best way to take advantage of time-shifting energy with a battery. And yes, I'm very happy with my GivEnergy purchase. Price for feature-set it's unbeatable still as far as I am aware. My one regret is not being able to afford a second battery at time of install because at this time of year the 8.2kWh is not enough for our household. GivEnergy support are great the couple of times I've had to call them (nothing major), and they're even on hand in unofficial Facebook groups keeping an eye on their customers. GivEnergy isn't perfect, there are flaws, but they do seem to be addressing them in existing products where they can, or incorporating changes into the design of new hardware. So far my impressions are that they're a company that deserve to do well.

@johnwilkins2023

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Really enjoyed the video. I am planning a similar installation using GivEnergy products however I have recently seen that lots of GE owners are having firmware issues with State Of Charge (SOC) jumping around. It appears that the SOC is wandering away from reality and then from time to time the BMS has to reset back to either 100% or 0% when it has a known reference point. It is taking a long time for GE to get this fixed and their communication to owners who have the problem is poor. A Beta firmware is being trialled but that has introduced other errors like not getting the full discharge amount expected. This has made me very nervous about buying GE products now. Have you had any such issues?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

Hi, I have personally had no such issues recently. When it was first installed, there was an issue with SOC level dropping to zero and emergency charging itself, but that was fixed within 2 weeks via a firmware update and communication was excellent. Yes there is a known SOC issue for some setups, and yes GivEnergy are working on a fix. Personally I think their communication on that has been clear and great, and they regularly update on the progress. If you browse around groups/forums for competitor's products you'll see similar things, but at least GivEnergy are actively fixing and updating. I haven't installed the beta myself because my installation is stable, but from what I understand they are attempting to finalise a new way of calculating the SOC which does not rely on a calibration process - that will be game changing when it's released. Of course you have to go with who you think are best, but given the visibility of their support staff especially on the GivEnergy Battery Owners Facebook group, I think they are trying very hard and that level of support and attention is rare from a company. Not perfect, but I'd rather see a company fixing things and involving themselves in their user community than just ignore the issues and silently push out the occasional firmware update.

@jamesl3546

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Givenergy's touted 5kw inverter/battery with a 5kw discharge rate looks an interesting offering. Wonder what the pricing will look like?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully competitively priced like the rest of their range. I'm looking forward to their gateway device and being able to link multiple inverters together for whole home protection.

With cloudy days, my 2kw system will basically never return the investment...be better off with bank cd's, but if you want a small backup generator it is barely worth it honestly. I average a daily production of 4kwh daily over the year, and brings in just a bit over 250 dollars, about what I could have made from that 5k sitting in a bank cd.

@user-hg2tk3xj9y

4 ай бұрын

If 10kwh battery storage is full when Grid goes down, I can keep my gas furnace/fridge running off it for 2 days with just the mildest amount of sun, 20hrs if absolutely no sun.

@user-hg2tk3xj9y

4 ай бұрын

So reality is the 5k I spent produces 277.40 dollars a year, bank cd would return 250, so I make about 27.40 a year, to break even on investment it would have to run...about 277 years.

@user-hg2tk3xj9y

4 ай бұрын

Got a small petrol generator that in about 3hrs can charge the batteries enough for a day of backup again. Will the system ever return its investment, in money no, but in never losing heat in my home....priceless.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

4 ай бұрын

I guess you are in the US? Energy prices are considerably more expensive here in the UK and because this island is physically smaller there’s less variation on sunny hours by comparison. It’s important to consider your own calculations for your local area before committing

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

4 ай бұрын

To break even with your numbers would take about 18 years. You would be £4500 worse off after 18 years compared to investing in a bank account though on your estimations.

I have solar but no battery. The family is at home during the day, and we struggle to use 55% of our generation. The calculation might be easier here: we export 1,413 annually, and the price of electricity is 32.81p per kWh from which 6.79 p per kWh paid export must be deducted, i.e. "wasted" export is 1,413 x (0.3281 - 0.0679) = £367. When would I get a payback on a battery system to complement the solar system,?

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

That's a question I can't answer for you sorry. It really depends on how much it costs to install, what capacity you go for, what energy tariff you switch to, what else you shift to your tariff's off-peak hours, etc - a lot of variables that are very personal to you and your household.

@sterlingtimes

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thank you for your quick reply. My suspicion is that an investment in a battery would not pay back, but I will do more digging.

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

I know two people personally who have retrofitted batteries to their solar. Neither regret their decision! One has an EV, moved to the intelligent Octopus tariff, and reckons break-even is about 7 years. The other, no EV, switching between various Octopus tariffs such as Flux and Agile, reckons about 5-6 years. First install was 2x 8.2kWh batteries, second is 1x5kWh battery. Just to give you some very rough indications.

11000 kWh a year … what size is you house. I’m in a 2.2k sq ft with 5 people working from home and using a lot of energy and I’m only 6000 kWh. My system will be 25 panels and 20kwh batteries when installed and hoping for about 7 year payback

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

11 ай бұрын

It’s a 4 bedroom home, 107sqm (you’ll need to do the conversion to sq ft sorry!). We use about 4000kWh/year to charge the car. There are 4 of us living here, so that’s roughly 7000kWh without the car. I work from home and we have a lot of gadgets that all add up. My home alarm for example is quite old and uses 30w continuously. That’s 260kWh/year alone! I will optimise where I can but it’ll take time.

@chrismccannIRL

11 ай бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech that’s a lot of usage but it’s great you can save so much with the solar panels. I’m looking forward to mine going in as it should make us about 70% off grid use each year. Thanks. Ps sq M to sq ft is usually just multiply by 10.7 or even 11 roughly

Real Electric price is 67p a kWh the government is subsidising the price

This is a good piece of work but (IMHO) your conclusion feels pessimistic because you have ignored where the cash for the project comes from. I don't think lost interest on money spent should be ignored; it is the base case that you should compare this project with. By way of an example my PV/battery project is budgeted at £10k (still waiting for GivE Gen2 hybrid ...grr) and I expect to save £1,000 per year on electricity once up and running. That is a total return of £20k tax free over the life of the system. Alternatively I can leave it in the bank and hope that I get an average return of 5% after tax. I know this is ignoring compounding but doing nothing looks like a costly mistake. When you factor in the future energy prices and the likely emergence of novel demand-side management tariffs, this is clearly a much better investment than leaving your cash in the bank. Finally, big institutional investors are always looking for this kind of long-term capital intensive, steady return project. So follow the smart money and invest in your own infrastructure project!

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

On the other hand there are people telling me I’m being way too optimistic and it’ll take many more years to get a return :) I’m hoping I’ve managed to strike a balance between opinions. I’m also not ignoring the lost interest, I’m just not including it in the break-even calculation so as a comparison can be made against many other scenarios. When you’re saving money in a bank, you don’t include the lost savings on your energy bill in the interest forecasts because you hadn’t used the cash to buy solar panels, it’s a standalone investment.

This batteries only have 3000 cycles 😬🤨 "In 10 years I will get my money back " 🤥 No you won't 😌😒

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

That’s not accurate. The warranty over 10 years allows for ‘fair use’ cycles of 5000 causing up to a 30% drop in capacity. That’s therefore the absolute worst case they are expecting. The reality is the batteries should perform much better or GivEnergy will have far too many warranty claims on their hands! kb.givenergy.cloud/assets/Battery%20Warranty%20Pack%202022%20v3.pdf#viewer.action=download

This tech is a terrible investment considering you get zero return on capital for many years losing compounding returns and you never get your capital back

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

But you do get your capital back, and after that the longer it remains working for and the higher your energy costs, the more it saves you.

@mattx4253

Жыл бұрын

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech lol no you don’t the capital is stuck on the roof. Investing in the SP500 paid 330% back in 10 years. So 20k turned in to nearly 90k. The average house energy bill in that time was £15 to 20k. Your energy savings don’t compound but investments do. So your break even time is total loss of investment returns and then your battery might fail and be worthless out of warranty

@niceboy60

Жыл бұрын

@@mattx4253 I m not sure they even understand how Solar works , I ve been watching this videos the Max khw I ve seen produced in a day its around 6kwh that's around £1.98 savings per day , no company will give them 10 years warranty they close after 1 year and open with a new name 🤑 does this people believe Companies 9 years later will be buying thousands of batteries worth around £20,000 to honor their warranties 🤨🤔

@mattx4253

Жыл бұрын

@@niceboy60 yeh I’m sure that most people who do this are totally financially illiterate. They clearly have no idea how compounding returns on capital investments work. If you get zero returns until break even then that is a TERRIBLE investment if the time period is counted in years… sometimes over a decade!!!

@SpeakToTheGeekTech

Жыл бұрын

During June, most days I generate over 20kWh. Even this month so far my little array is giving me and average of 5kWh/day peaking at 18kWh on the best days. My solar array is small. Please also keep in mind that I don't consider this a purely financial investment, my primary motivation is to reduce my reliance on the grid generally ensuring I'm using non-fossil generated energy as much as possible, and my battery helps to reduce the grid's peak demand hopefully playing my very small part in reducing the country's need to fire up fossil powered generators during the peak hours.