It’s interesting being a United States citizen and hearing you discuss American politics. I’d add that the Electoral College, by its fundamental nature, is undemocratic. Same with the Senate. It’s crazy here.

@torsteinholen14

2 күн бұрын

Democracy is to share power between all. Not something those in power want to share. It was never meant to be a democracy. Very few, it seems, even know what a democratic society means. "We can vote in reasonably free elections, must be that we live in a free and democratic society". Dont know any policy, no time to find out any for that is a full time study. Just struggle to get through to the next day in some comfort. Scary times ahead.

Thank you, both, for your insights and ideas. Lots of fascinating interviews on this channel.

The beautiful, optimistic idealism of youth is a wonderful thing to see. The very finest aspects of human potential are redolent there. I was there once. About 60 years ago. Since that time, I have witnessed a perpetual and incessant degradation of our finest, most humanistic ideals. As a species, we tell a beautiful story and we acknowledge noble, unifying ideals - and then our self-serving, plutocratic "betters" make a mockery of them.

@user-og3qt5vo6n

2 ай бұрын

Ok boomer.

@triomach3362

Ай бұрын

Treefrog you have spoken well.

You are both absolutely brilliant. Thank you for having this conversation

Rachel and Erin, great discussion . From my Australian perspective, degrowth is a pipe dream, but a worthwhile incremental must do project. The Green energy transition is critical to moving the population , and the general population will not ever move if they can not see some continuing energy access. What we are doing wrong here is not enough community energy focus, instead of corporate energy supply. Really, the only tipping point is major disaster , ie is millions dead, oh and death of the baby boomers, that's my generation. We know disaster here in Australia fires, floods, and we are facing major structural change in population location. Our political growth towards a higher level of democracy has changed through the last 50 years, and only the next election will demonstrate whether we take the next step.

The real problem is that there is no alternative currency. If you need money to survive and the monetary system is controlled by the 1% you don't have a choice but to accept the system.

@kated3165

2 ай бұрын

They are even cracking down on homesteading in some areas...

@antonyjh1234

2 ай бұрын

The problem here is you are setting the basis of what can or can't be done and that's incorrect. All money is govt owned, you can earn it but they own it, they depreciate it so any value you hold becomes worthless and tax it so there isn't so much of it in the system. Until you can look at the system then you'll not understand how to change it. We could change everything to a carbon value and people get the same amount of carbon allowance, we could stop people having to have a job to have shelter, food and medical care. You don't need to have a currency to supply people basics, if I said to 3/4's of the world that we can supply food, shelter and medical care for free, but you aren't allowed to work it would raise general wellbeing for the whole world, we need alternative systems not currencies.

@kk-xj5oz

2 ай бұрын

@@antonyjh1234 but who do you think own and control the government? Do you really believe you live in a democracy where voting for a specific party will change anything? Jepp didn't think so. So, If we're going to find a solution it has to be outside of government constraints, if not it's business as usual.

@antonyjh1234

2 ай бұрын

@@kk-xj5oz but who do you think own and control the government" This is a rhetorical question right? No and this is the same as the 1st and that's what I'm saying, if you want an alternative out of govt restraints, saying there are no alternatives helps no one. An alternative currency helps no one if they don't understand money now.

The use of foundations/government to fund NGOs, picking and choosing who gets to proceed and who is stymied... These also seem a place for focus. In Minnesota we're seeing successful NGOs like those helping prevent extractive industries being dismantled and it seems a systemic breaking in places. Great conversation. Thank you.

Very insightful interview!

It is not like any of this is new. But equity, equity, equity. Why would many get on board if they don't see equity? We know the trickle-down effect doesn't work and we cannot keep growing a bigger pie anyway. Who is going to be first to take money from the relatively rich for redistribution? At the moment it looks like something has to break. But what would I know? The golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

Great conversation and ideas. I'd love to participate in the courses or be part of the community Erin talks about, but it's all based on monthly or yearly membership/course fees that are way above my budget as an activist and honestly put me off.

@singingway

2 ай бұрын

Yes, I was disappointed to see how expensive it is just to access the information. As a climate educator for nine years I have lived on half my previous pay and consistently put 20 hours a week into teaching about climate.

@systems_logic

2 ай бұрын

Wouldn't it be great to see everyone who wants to be there in the next cohort, paying participants or otherwise 💚✨🌿

I have no doubt that you are well-meaning, good hearted people. That's good. Your sweet social view of action is hopelessly naive -- really just plain hopeless from every point of view. We are out of time, "mobilizing as quickly as we can" is not a strategy, just a wish and a hope and a dream. I have been trying every approach I can imagine to speak to Americans -- no go. Catastrophes will happen, and they will change minds, people will point their fingers at everyone who failed to make the them do the right thing and get mad as hell and strike globally -- well, it is already very late. We can't even get a discussion of no growth to happen, and so we embrace degrowth. Ignorant people victimized by a status-quo, elite-advantaging totalizing capitalist system can't be educated in such a way as to be committed to working against their own interests can not be fundamentally enlightend in hours or days -- if it were done it would probably take centuries. Sorry, we don't have centuries, barely hours. Dreaming and having polite conversatioins is the very worst thing you can do. It is the ethic of niceness as the basic good and inviolable virtue that dooms us -- that way is just no chance at all.

@jamesbelcher9588

2 ай бұрын

Reductive dismissiveness isn't much of a strategy, Steve. It's *this* close to doomerism.

@dlorien7306

2 ай бұрын

If I could first agree and then second rephrase the previous comment: if you don't want to try niceness then try your alternative. If you don't have one or don't want to, then at least don't give up. Just try FFS

@TonydeSouza-cm6qs

2 ай бұрын

If these are the worst things we can do, do you have a recommendation for the best things we can do?

@antonyjh1234

2 ай бұрын

If we are doomed, nice polite conversations might be the kindest thing you can do.

On nonviolence, it is a strategy that Bayard Rustin used to help Martin Luther King Jr. win hearts and minds. It may be a strategy that doesn't affect people like it used to, but I think nonviolence is crucial for our success. What is the response to the savage economic system here? non harm is the radical alternative people will see in the streets.

@buriedintime

2 ай бұрын

food for thought kzread.info/dash/bejne/dXagktuhgtW1oag.htmlsi=2EP7qsbz075NEfYO&t=1 and how nonviolence protects the state kzread.info/dash/bejne/lq1m17umZ6iXhJs.htmlsi=AgOtP-qK9YxG9Sk4

We're in human overshoot. Only disaster can follow.

Recently realized that while colonials in the US were killing off tribes and stealing land (1854/1855 where I live), Europe was breaking Africa into workable pieces from which to extract resources.

Take the legal framework of ISDS and make it public.

Rachel checkout Nates interview of Michael Every .. he has some interesting ideas on how to steer the economy to be more equal between classes

The problem here is that without a clear solution to the stated problem, humans resort to fighting fire with fire until the fuel is exhausted and ends everything-that-matters. Lovely baby, probably the best solution.

Probably will get blocked (I'm sure some member of the bourgeoisie will get offended) but I turned off when the interviewee said she's shared 20% of her course. I was uncomfortable that it sounded like advertising.

Blind optimism is toxic, human extinction is inevitable, trying to avoid that will make our ending more slow and painful. Humanity isn't worth defending, we made too many horrible things to nature, to animals and each other.

@buriedintime

2 ай бұрын

i really like music and art and novels. degrowth will happen. the only question is will it be voluntary (it won't) or will it come by force (it will)? maybe human extinction will come close to happening in the coming hundred years. there will be survivors who persist and live in a different way.. at least for a while.

@Robert-xs2mv

2 ай бұрын

@@buriedintimethe universe has existed for 18 billion years, planet earth for 4 billion years, humanity only a few thousand years, a minuscule fraction of time. To talk about human extinction is ridiculous.

Uhm no. Collectivists are louder, but individualists are more numerous. And because collectivists care about being popular more than being right, they are more detached from reality. If collectivists want to be part of the solution, then they have to get the right message. Delicense an oil major.

Too much apathy, I think we’re done for, sadly.

Biden was born during WW2, and the Nuremberg Trials happened while he was a child. It’s really hard for him to see Israelis as anything but victims. He’ll get there, I think-hopefully before it’s too late to stop a famine.

@Robert-xs2mv

2 ай бұрын

Self proclaimed victims? Victimhood is nothing but failing to deal with reality, no matter how pleasant or unpleasant it is?

Degrowth = voluntary cut in standard of living. A hard sell to soft people

@jamesbelcher9588

2 ай бұрын

The soft people in question are the 1% using far more energy and resources than needed for a *thriving* standard of living. Trying to sell them on anything is a waste of time. Instead, we must institute truly democratic decision-making. If everyone has a say, the decisions will be sustainable.

I agree with both of your politics but, I wish the left would stop repeating meaningless buzzwords like "decarbonization" because there's literally no such thing. Every alternative to fossil fuels I know about requires burning massive amounts of carbon based fuels to make. It's a deceptive and distracting term the corporations came up with to sell us their fossil fuel built "green tech".

500 $ solution = door knocking. ok.

@crisismanagement

2 ай бұрын

Done

Arrogance defined.