Great video Lachlan! Thanks for your reviews and dedication to testing audio gear.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Chuck! Always a pleasure - especially with community members like you ❤️

Thank you for your review of these products. After spending US$2.37M on my 2-channel hi-fi, the only thing that I was missing was that DC cable, previously upgrading the wall plug wire and deconstructing and reconstructing my home and making sure that my coal powered power plant utility company is on track to upgrade their infrastructure to windmills which of course put out better power than the steam generators. Oh, I still need to buy a dedicated-to-me-only Starlink satellite that is geostationary over my house which should sound even better while streaming. Sorry, I just spent the past week on figuring out which $300-600 DAC was the be-all end-all (I chose the Schiit Modi Multibit 2 since I already have some AK-chipped DACs). LOL

@PassionforSound

7 ай бұрын

Don't forget to have your house lifted and rotated on your block of land to align with the natural energy meridians of the planet. 😂

@sydneybird116

7 ай бұрын

@@PassionforSound Dagnabbit!

@PassionforSound

7 ай бұрын

😂

@damirhlobik6488

4 ай бұрын

you forgot the anti-fog device for better satellite signal reception

@PassionforSound

4 ай бұрын

😂

Thanks for a great video. I’m much more in the snake oil camp but really like watching your videos. Well done and keep ‘‘em coming

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Glad you liked the video!

My Topping HS02 arrived today and it solved the horrendous coil whine interference problem on my new PC. Happy, happy! Joy, joy! I had the classic no noise with the GPU idle but horrendous noise when the GPU was loaded issue, which made playing demanding games like Cyberpunk 2077 problematic. Inserting the HS02 between the PC and the Fiio K7 solved the problem instantly. I mention this because some people have reported that the HS02 (and similar devices) have done nothing for them, but they do work for certain specific problems. Thank you so much, Lachlan. Yay for snake oil!

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's great news! So glad it fixed the issue. It's a magic little device in the right situation.

That was a delicious snake oil smoothie, Lachlan. Thanks! I'm very much looking forward to your blind test results. Had there been anyway for me to get to Melbourne to help you out I would have, but alas it was not in the cards 😕 Keep up the great work!

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Cheers, Brian. Glad you liked it. I'm excited to see what comes from the blind listening event too... Take care, mate.

I’m glad I’ve bought into all the snake oil I’ve chosen to purchase.

@PassionforSound

4 күн бұрын

If you're enjoying yourself and your music then I'm glad too! 🙂🙂

Brilliant as always. The only item I’ve used along these lines is an AudioQuest Jitterbug, but that definitely affected the sound in blind testing.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yep. The Jitterbug may/may not have been beneficial, but it certainly made a difference. Glad you liked the review!

@danab7472

10 ай бұрын

Funny thing about the Jitterbug. Of all the doodads I’ve had in here, the Jitterbug is still the thing that impressed my decidedly non-audiophile wife the most. Literally the 2nd most impressive thing to her is our Sansui AU-555A + Celestion Ditton 551 combo.

If your DAC has galvanically isolated USB input would a USB isolator (the JCAT one(I already have the JCAT USB XE card) still have even a small difference or do absolutely nothing?

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

It still makes a slight difference, but not as much as with a non-isolated dac

The Topping HS02 fixed my problems. I had an issue while gaming (only demanding games) I would get noise in my audio. Easily replicable running furmark. It's overpriced at $100, but I'm thrilled it finally fixed my GPU noise. Disappointing this isn't something that's found in some budget DACs already. Both, Schiit Modi 3+ and Topping E50 suffered from this issue.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yep, it's a shame it's necessary, but once you own it you can use it on every DAC you ever buy in the future so it's a decent investment

@TheKent2288

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree. I need to deal with gaming PC issue with the TT2 and the Topping works best. TT2 sounds fantastic but only through optical inputs. I’ve also tried laptops and still have power noise issues. TT2 USB is sheit

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

I've not had any troubles with the TT2 USB and I know many TT2 users with no issues as well. I would suggest that the TT2 probably isn't the issue and that you have a problem elsewhere in the chain. I'm glad the HS02 has resolved it though!

Great review. I've been looking for a way to solve USB noise as I use my gaming PC as an audio source so this was a very timely video!

@DaveJ6515

Жыл бұрын

A famous Japanese designer and producer of hi-end cd players once said that a USB input is the best way known to man to feed noise into a DAC, and for that reason he was not going to add an USB input to his award winning DAC. I use an Ethernet input to a Rossini DAC and it is just great. Noticeably better than a USB connection from the same source (an ordinary PC). No fancy ethernet cables, no hi-end switches. Admittedly, I think that having fiber-to-the-home ethernet helps reducing noise anyway.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yes, USB noise is a very real problem, but there are also lots of solutions now. Glad I could help with your situation, darkfire!

@TheKent2288

Жыл бұрын

I have bought almost every iFi gadget (silencer; groundhog, usb filter etc etc) to deal with my gaming PC USB power noise as well as a USB cable with separate power line and I ended up replacing them all with just the Topping USB HS02 galvanic isolator. It works best and provided a noticeable improvement in blackness so their seem to be more air around the notes. IMHO don’t bother with all the iFi gizmos. Just get a USB galvanic isolator.

@shipsahoy1793

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound Yes, so true! 👨🏻

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing that, Kent!

Very informative! Looking forward to an Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker review.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That would be cool. I'll have to see if I can get one

Thanks for an interesting video. Was able to get the Preacher from Qobuz. Great track. I am using the Matrix spdif 3 between an old home built computer and an Audio-Gd R28. USB in, I2s out. The Matrix runs off an Ifi power supply. Noise down, dimensionality up. If I had a quieter computer, maybe no improvement, but this worked for me. $1,000 IEM cable that's the snake oil. Hope to get to Melbourne sometime.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experiences! Glad you got to try The Preacher.

Well done sir!

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you liked it 🙂

Awsome thanks for sharing As a pc user I am super interested in a comparison Reinigen + EtherRegen vs jcat cards it seems there doing the same things ? theres alot of comparisons between jcat and other internal cards but your in a unique position atm to compare them to external options

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

I won't be able to provide a direct comparison, but I do think they're very comparable. Given a repeat, I'd probably just go with the Reinigen and EtherRegen because they will work with any computer whether desktop or laptop.

@phillipmorris9847

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound thanx

Would be nice if you can share audio examples of before and after the usb isolator

@PassionforSound

2 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, by the time it goes back into a recording setup and then through KZread or any other playback chain, you're hearing all of the downstream devices and processing more than what happens at my end.

2 questions… Is there a systematic approach to recognizing nuanced impressions of sound quality, i.e., the technicalities, between suspected “snake-oil” devices and headphone/IEM sound qualities. How does the ethernet Regen isolator compare with the same over wifi?

@net_news

Жыл бұрын

😂

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's a good question about the network switch vs wifi. I couldn't test that with the Gustard R26, but I should run that test with the FiiO R7. I'm not sure exactly what you mean with your first question though. Are you asking if the testing of IEMs/headphones is different to the testing of devices like these or something else?

@michaelshaffer4005

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound It just seemed to me that many of the sound qualities you attributed to suspected “snake oil” products are described similarly to the qualities from high end headphones and monitors. Do you need the headphones to hear the snake oil claims verified? Do you need the snake oil devices to hear what your headphones are capable of?

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

No, I did quite a bit of this testing with regular speakers and amps too.

How can an inline re-clocker make any difference while the DAC processing the signal uses its internal clock ? On second thought I was thinking of CD transport over optical. USB is a digital communication that has error checking. It's data, there is not an audio consideration.

@PassionforSound

2 ай бұрын

Firstly, the data checking on USB audio has no mechanism for resending data if there's an error. Beyond that, I don't know if it's about the clocking of the signal or actually the roval/isolation of noise. I'm yet to find a clear explanation of why USB audio can sound different from one interface to the next.

@user-hn8fw6eb2s

2 ай бұрын

@@PassionforSound It's a digital communication. An inline device doesn't have a correcting capability that is not already present in the sender and the receiver. Differences you can hear in USB audio devices are most likely a difference in the DAC quality.

Are 7hz timeless good enough for listening outside the home, on the beach, while walking, with a balanced input on the Ibasso dx170 and that there is no need for another combination. By the way, I follow all your reviews. At home, I listen to music on the A30 pro and D30 d30, and I own a beyerdynamic d770, akg k702 and ATH40. Warm greetings and I wish you success in your work.

Thank you Lachlan for this video. Learned some interesting things. Was thinking if I want to get the Gustard U18 DDC but I missed the sale. I am not very sensitive in listening for changes or improvements, just whether I like it or not. Many said changing the fuse of the Gustard R26 is minor improvement but I hear an actual improvement. I got some ferrite cores clipped to usb cables, just for the fun of it since it’s cheap. For those who live in places where you can order a product, use it and can return if you don’t like it, please do that and share your findings here. I am in Singapore and I can’t return a product because I don’t like it. It’s just not the common practice here unless the seller offers it. Then again, there’s the obligation.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Glad the video was helpful, Billy. The U18 (or equivalent like Singxer SU-6) is a great idea for isolating noise from your DAC and delivering a clean signal. Definitely a purchase I'd recommend in the future.

@BillyKueekSG

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound ahhh missed that sale but now I know what the lowest price is so will keep a lookout for another sale

I actually thought balanced cables were snake oil and avoided using them until I found some for free. I used them between my dac and headphone , then with my Senns and my Monolithes. The result for me was improved focus and clarity . The difference- whether placebo or not, was consistently preferable. So, I actually sought and bought a few more cables!

@dangerzone007

Жыл бұрын

Balanced cables use a different circuit. That's the difference you're hearing.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yes, what danger said - that's about the quality of the DAC outputs and amp circuitry being different between single-ended and balanced

@kkklllaaa1234

Жыл бұрын

I’m what kind of music did you find the biggest difference?

@timothyfreeseha4056

Жыл бұрын

@kkklllaaa1234 I listen largely to simple music, but I will also listen to pop music - for instance, souxsie & the Banchees. What I notice with simpler music is a greater clarity of vocals with a more precise location of instruments. With busier tracks, I've noticed an increase of layering and separation- not night and day, but enough that I feel I can follow or focus better on certain aspects of music without losing everything as a whole. It also removed a bit of tizziness on the top end. Relatively minor improvements I suppose, but noted none the less. I would not say that everything sounds like I'm right there! But, of course, my system is not resolving or organic enough to provide that yet. I do not think I'm sitting with June Tabor at the library, and I'd be afraid to be anywhere with Siouxsie or the Banchees. Also- finally, I think Burson suggests you go balanced with the 3xp. I went through a similar process with speaker stands with my speakers. The company suggested open frame stands and I thought they were just upselling. After trying a thousand different surfaces and a few stands , I gave in and tried and open frame stand / rig to experiment. It made a difference both in terms of volume and bass. It sharpened the stereo image and bass arrived with more impact. So- it goes to show that real or imagined, I arrived at a perceived improvements that I hadn't expected to.

@TriAmpHiFi

11 ай бұрын

@@timothyfreeseha4056 Wait. You bought a DAC & headphones or a headphone amp with balanced connections but waited to get free or bought RCA cables to connect them? Do I have that right? Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊

Great video! I've found the effects are cumulative. So if I run across a device that gives a small improvement, I normally keep the product, or go for the better version. I find it interesting that switches have a similar effect as cables. They can affect brightness, and overall clarity. And the upper quality cables usually have more conductors. I'm not sure if it is noise rejection or easier current flow.

@PassionforSound

7 ай бұрын

I'm glad you liked it! I agree too about just building one little tweak at a time because it all adds up in the end.

Thanks for the video. Very interesting indeed. I would have thought if the Topping device does a decent job at removing noise from a noisy usb output of a computer, it would improve SQ to a degree especially if the DAC is not galvanically isolated very well. I will have to take your work for it.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

It's only isolating the power line in USB so I guess if you have a noisy power source, it could help, but it's not removing any noise or jitter from the main data lines so that remains the same.

13:13 Interesting point. USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s already. So curiously - wouldn't a high quality USB 3.1 gen 2 capable powered dock be able to take your audio data from the PC/Laptop at somewhere around 10Gb/s and while then putting the audio data out via USB 2.0 to the DAC, have to be doing some sort of compiling or buffering or something close to reclocking it? Always wondered about that.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

I think the DAC only draws as fast as it needs. I'm guessing (no expert here) that the USB output and USB input chips/controllers "chat" to each other about the rate of data transfer

@zaprodk

4 ай бұрын

A USB-device does not "draw" data. It has a certain link speed. A sound device will have a USB 1.1 or 2.0 link with a theoretical maximum speed. In the host device there is a bank of buffer memory set up which the USB device can transmit/receive data to/from. Everything is packetised, and that is also why reclocking makes absolutely no sense. The USB clock is not used in the DAC. The DAC has its own clocking and the USB delivers the data much faster than its needed (buffering).@@PassionforSound

@PassionforSound

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the info

Re: Topping HS02. I think that isolating the USB earth and injecting clean power into the USB chain could have a very big effect on the SQ. So In some systems, Yes, I think it could affect the sound. I think it's a pity you didn't try with the same DACs that you tested the Reinigen with . . . . . . Edit after some more thoughts . . . . . . The thing is, in a HiFi system, the purity of the earth is like God. Noise on the system earth get's everywhere and affects everything . . . . but noise on the earth isn't limited to mains hum. If a computer in connected to the system, the earth can be polluted with Ultrasonic noise any where between 50Khz and several Meg hz. Obviously, this noise will not be directly audible but it could play havoc with the operation of a DAC and spoil the sound. Similar story for noise on the power lines . . . . . So all in all, if I were Topping I might be feeling that you'd sold my product a bit short . . . . But perhaps you did try it on the same system that you used the Reinigen on and it wasn't very effective in which case, all of the above theoretical ideas are irrelevant. I just thought there might be a little more to that simple product than you gave it credit for.

@PassionforSound

3 ай бұрын

I agree that the HS02 COULD have a significant impact, but it seems to be much more system dependent than the Reinigen. Without knowing how each are working exactly, all I can tell you is that the HS02 fixes significant system noise , but doesn't seem to "tidy up" the sound across all setups like the Reinigen does.

I bought some Snake Oil cables for a Schiit stack.... nice....

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

🙂

Another great video mate. But you need to stop from making me spend money lol. I think I need to visit Clay and get a Reinigen. Oh glad to see you doing a colab with Geoff from HeyNow. As for 'snake oil' yeah I have a lot in my system. From power cables, to cables (even 'hifi ethernet' cables) One of the best devices I've ever added was the Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 (and waiting on the 3 to arrive) Adding that from my Auralic Aries then to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC added a lot more detail. A bummer I can't make the event as I'll be off to the US a week later. But I'm sure it'll be great and hope you can have another Thanks for all that you do for this crazy hobby

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Sorry about that Steve! Hopefully my recommendations are at least worth the 💰💰 🙂 If all goes according to plan, I'll run more of these events so hopefully you can come along to the next one!

@OzSteve

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound absolutely. Just a shame to miss the first one. But I'm sure it'll be a great day for all that attend

Danke!

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, Rainer!

I am going to be building a Noise Nuke - it is a shared DIY noise filter for a DC power supply, that adds a fair bit of capacitive power buffer. It is really simple - a choke coil in series with the positive, and a pair of capacitors in shunt across the positive and the negative. It is meant primarily for a small switch mode power supply, but also makes a difference with a linear power supply. The parts cost about $80US so they are quite reasonable.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That sounds like an excellent solution for improving SMPSs while not having to invest in LPSs. Will it just pass the same voltage and current as whatever is supplied?

@NeilBlanchard

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound Yes, it will, up to 48V and 2A, I believe. This is a design that was shared on Super Best Audio Friends, and there are measurements shown on the thread. It is pretty impressive and quite straight forward.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's brilliant! Thanks for telling us about it. If you'd like me to review it on the channel, you can drop me a line at passionforsound@lachlanfennen.com

@NeilBlanchard

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound I built mine yesterday and started listening to my Geshelli J2S with it. I compared the stock switch mode (12V 2.1A) by itself, and with the Noise Nuke, and the 12V 50W linear power supply I have (Sigma 11 dual voltage - 5V 50W on the other output, for my Node 2i) and also the LPS with the Noise Nuke. WOW! The Noise Nuke has a fairly profound effect - greater bass dynamics are the first thing I noticed, but also cleaner highs and the quieter parts are fleshed out better. More open soundstage with more dimensional instruments within it.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's great to hear! I might have to make a couple of my own at some point.

Sounds like the same Analog-Devices chipset used by the Topping device in which case both devices will be performing in exactly the same way. Did you open them up and check them ?

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Which devices do you mean?

@rentabomb

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound Analog devices ADUM4165 or ADUM4166 5.7kV rms Digital Isolator for Isolated USB 2.0 High Speed (Downstream Clock Input)

@zaprodk

4 ай бұрын

The USB isolator does not change the USB data, it doesn't even "know" what kind of data it's seeing. It acts like an analog device in this regard. So it cannot alter the data. If a DAC changes it sound profile when subjected to noise on the USB connector , then it is a bad design.

@PassionforSound

4 ай бұрын

Alpha Audio recently measured the impact of noise transmitted through cables on the downstream device's clock accuracy so this is at least one way it can influence the sound.

18:00 - I really like Ghent Audio. I have my DC cables made by his engineer. JSSG360 Teflon silver plated star quad with Oyaide barrel connectors. These do the trick for under $50 per cable. I have them running from my 12V LPS to the Geshelli A3 Pro using an inline supercapacitor bank. And I use them with the Aune XP2 to the X8 XVIII DAC. Robust, shielded, DC cable can make a difference but we're only talking about keeping noise out of the chain. No single solutions, but a myriad of little changes can keep pesky EMI and RF from messing with your signal.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

I've not really explored DC cables at all yet so I'll be curious (no pun intended) to see if any products or cables convince me that they're worth investing a significant amount on

@Scrufboy

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound Yeah, its really an end game thing. They don't fix issues where noise is already on the lines. Anything that is a non standard length with custom connectors and sleeving, expect a price hike. But you shouldn't be paying anything over $50 USD for a DC cable unless you're heading into longer lengths. This is where the star quad + shielding helps the most. So with JSSG360 dual shielding, the cost is more about time to produce with a slight cost increase in materials for shorter lengths. Longer lengths are a bit harder to make and do take time to do well. Like in my case. I have a slight chance of some RF and EMI.. So I nionthat in the bud... Just in case. I already have a super low noise floor, with only really needing to address the mains. All the LPS supercap stuff takes care of a good portion of it in the gear attached. I have one SMPS that needs a rebuild to include some filtering.

@TriAmpHiFi

11 ай бұрын

​@@PassionforSound At the end of what can be a long digital signal chain is a DAC with analog output. If the output connection is TRS or XLR then isn't all the upstream noise cancelled anyway? (not jitter) Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊

@TriAmpHiFi

11 ай бұрын

​@@Scrufboy ​ At the end of what can be a long digital signal chain is a DAC with analog output. If the output connection is TRS or XLR then isn't all the upstream noise cancelled anyway? (not jitter) Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊

@Scrufboy

11 ай бұрын

@@TriAmpHiFi Consider that there is shielded and non shielded XLR / TRS cables and then ask yourself the same question... There is nothing wrong with an ounce of prevention. You simply make a choice based upon apparent need. This, and the fact that your proposed use case is specific to balanced when not everyone uses balanced. I don't. Therefore it should be obvious that my comment is in regards to my use case.

Reclocking the USB signal does not affect the audio quality whatsoever. The USB signal is essentially a level of abstraction above the audio signal, like morse code is to text. With morse code, even if you don't time your dots and dashes spot on, and there's tons of background noise in the signal, the receiver will still get the same message in the end, and the noise/jitter in your transmission won't affect the pronunciation of someone who reads the resulting message out loud. Stepping back from the analogy, it goes something like this: - Computer encodes audio signal with sample values 1,2,3,4 into a USB command and sends it across the cable, using USB clock signal - Audio interface receives the usb command and puts values 1,2,3,4 into a buffer - A millisecond or so later, A/D Converter reads the values 1,2,3,4 from the buffer and plays them back, using its own clock signal You can see how the degrees of separation involved result in the noise/jitter properties of the USB signal not transferring at all to the resulting audio signal.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

As with network switches, if noise is removed as part of the process (i.e. not jitter perhaps, but noise in the power line, noise alongside the data, etc.) then it will prevent the DAC receiving the noise and improve the overall sound.

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound I agree that reduction of noise on the power lines can matter due to reasons you explained with the USB isolator, but the data lines aren't electrically connected to the output of the dac, so noise can't just skip past the circuitry of the dac like it can with the shared ground line. The noise is contained at the USB chip of the dac. Even if the data line was leaking over to the speakers somehow, you'd notice the screeching mess that is the USB signal before you'd notice any potential noise that came in with it. The only other way noise could be introduced is through disrupting the USB signal itself, and the USB reclocker doesn't help here for reasons I explained earlier, and an additional reason: If there were enough noise introduced to the signal to flip a bit, this flipped bit would just be passed along by the USB reclocker. It's just re-sending the USB signal it receives, so if that source signal is mangled in a way that makes a difference, then so will the output. I also want to clearly state that the only way noise matters in the USB signal is if it's overpowering the signal and flipping bits. If the bits are the same, the audio signal is the same, period. The same applies to all digital signals, including ethernet. Overall the USB isolator you showcased at the beginning would give you the same benefits without doing things that make no difference.

@PassionforSound

11 ай бұрын

I'm not a DAC engineer so I can't get into technical discussions about this, but there was a great article I read ages ago by John Swenson (I think) and he discussed in that article how important the purity of the ground/earth is in a DAC because it's the reference (0V) for all processing. If noise gets into the DAC, it inevitably goes to the ground and disrupts the reference thus affecting everything the DAC is doing. As I said, I'm not a DAC designer so can't debate this, but I'll trust a well regarded designer of DACs on this point.

@Hetsu..

Ай бұрын

​@@Nathan_WoodruffWrong, ifi ipurifer series completely changes the sound.

I wabt to know if anyone is using music servers

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Lots of people

Couldn't you just use a clip on ferrite bead for the Ethernet cable to reduce noise ? It seems to me like a special switch might be overkill. Also I am sad the Schiit stopped making the EITR a galvanic USB to Coax converter because they worked really well for my Hugo2.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

I don't completely understand ferrite beads, but I think their size and position on the wire is important and the length of the wire and frequency of the noise needs to be accounted for.

@zaprodk

4 ай бұрын

Think of a ferrite bead as if you have two cups with a string between them. Putting a ferrite works as putting a weight on the string, it dampens the vibrations. The vibration are magnetic, not mechanical, but the same applies.@@PassionforSound

Anyone interested in a USB reclocker might want to consider the Singxer UIP-1 PRO at about US$280. It has galvanic isolation and a 24.000Mhz OCXO. Singxer is a fine company and has been around a long time.

@PassionforSound

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for telling us about that one

Alpha-Audio did a network switch shootout. One of their top, like number two pick, was the $40 Netgear GS108Ev3. I hooked it up to my network, and placed it behind the TV. I plugged in my Roku Ultra streamer, and BANG! The television picture quality went up several notches, as did the sound coming out of a $149 Polk sound bar with bass module. Now, my two channel streaming, it sounded more dynamic, and the bass really became pronounced in the room. $40, it worked. I do use an LHY 12v linear power supply with it. But either way, with or without the power supply, the improvements were quite pronounced in a good way.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's great to get such improvement from such an affordable device! Thanks for sharing

I couldn’t find the link to the event in Melbourne. Are you sure it’s here? Definitely want to attend!

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Hmmm... Did I forget to link it? Let me check...

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yep, I forgot - sorry! Here you go: www.eventbrite.com.au/e/passion-for-sound-blind-listening-event-tickets-634532833787?aff=oddtdtcreator

@bhalejos

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound got them! Looking forward to meet you in person.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Brilliant! See you there 🙂

Interesting. USB/noise aside (a real problem), if someone were to secretly switched out some of these would you notice it?

@alphaniner3770

Жыл бұрын

That would be a great blind test.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

I'd say yes, it would be noticeable (if it was a quick switch) on all but maybe the DC cable which is quite subtle (but I think still noticeable). If it was switched when not listening (like overnight) then I don't know if any of these are a large enough difference that you'd come back the next day and think that something was different because it would be glaringly obvious. That said, you'd probably find yourself thinking the music didn't sound quite as good that day and maybe wonder why (if the devices has been removed). Again, the DC cable is probably the least likely to be noticed in this way. As for blind testing like this, it raises an interesting question. If the blind test doesn't allow for rapid switching where the contrast is more evident than with delayed switching, does that mean the devices have no impact? I think not, but some would argue for a process to be precise, even if it distorts the results. That's where this is a very difficult topic for some people.

@Ray-dl5mp

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound Yeah great thought process. I have thought about this too as I'm sure a lot in this hobby have too. Is there a difference between enjoying something subjectively better and being able to tell in a blind test. That is a super interesting topic.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yep. The idea of blind testing being the perfect solution for determining a product's value is overblown. Sighted listening has flaws for sure, but the complexity of creating blind listening tests introduces unnatural variables such as delays between rounds, a different attitude to listening compared to simply relaxing and enjoying, etc. and this all influences the results in its own way. Ultimately, I don't think there is any one definitive way to control for all variables in a subjective and emotional hobby.

@alphaniner3770

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound Indeed. Also gear with a more laid back character might not impress in a direct A/B comparison, but provide very pleasant listening over longer periods. I am at the point where the most limiting thing is the quality of the recordings I am listening to.

Love me some snake oil. I use an Intona galvanic USB isolator with my Mojo 2 and I find it pretty worthwhile for eliminating PC noise.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Hurrah for snake oil! 😁

Without snake oil products this hobby would die.

Everyone needs a little snakeoil in their life, and audio

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

🐍 🛢️ 😉

@jcap8391

Жыл бұрын

​@@PassionforSoundThere is a guy named Sharur in the audio space. He's always praising his Moondrop Variations. He seems to have a thing for bashing you and honest audiophile. He's definitely one of those guys that gives people the impression this community is toxic. 😢

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Sharur's videos seem to be built on creating division and controversy. Not my cup of tea.

Looks & feels Better & of Course,....."Sounds" better......Was there any guess how that would play out !!

I suggest you test curious dc cable between lps and the etherregen, there you will hear a significant difference between dc cables.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tip!

The topping USB isolators are good, do their job well, have the older version which goes between my PC and a Topping E50 dac, the USB isolator does get warm. Worth it if it fixes the problem. As for the power cables, naw, nice quality well made one yeah, magic nope, $250 also nope. Network switch yeah just no just don't buy that at all for streaming audio or file transfer unless there's something very wrong with the switch or it's doing something bad to the data. earphone cable hmmm would like to see that difference measured.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experiences

By the way, remember that the reduction of noise can improve the “perceived” sound quality. Reducing the noise floor is always a good thing, if there’s a noise floor to be reduced. Also, make sure you know the noise floor of you’re listening environment !!

@hartyewh1

Жыл бұрын

There are still audibility limitations so added cost is a pure negative at that point. "Perceived" also isn't the same as assumed or believed. If one can actually perceive something they can double blind it.

@shipsahoy1793

Жыл бұрын

@@hartyewh1 🤔Maybe you missed my point.. I wasn’t totally clear or using the “best” wording. If the ambient noise level isn’t low enough for you to make the “assessment” of improved signal to noise ratio, then you’re going to say whatever change you made had no effect. This “should” be “common” sense.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's a good point about the ambient noise. We're surprisingly good though at isolating a constant noise or noise that isn't tied to the music in any way. That's not to say that background noise isn't an issue, just acknowledging how complex our auditory system is - different sound characteristics have different thresholds of importance/impact and then, on top of that, we can learn to become more and less sensitive to things with practice.

my modest knowledge of network streamer tells me that it is just an ordinary PC with a quality audio card put in a fancy branded box and sold at an absurdly high price. I apologize if I'm wrong

@PassionforSound

4 ай бұрын

That's kind of true, but there are things they can do to minimise the noise generated and transmitted by the processing part of the streamer and it can net some big sound quality gains downstream. I'm assuming it's about a degree of custom designed hardware and software to do away with anything that's not 100% necessary for the task of streaming, and then isolation of noisy components.

no audio grade fuses mentioned 🤐

@PassionforSound

7 ай бұрын

Not this time...

Hopefully you review another product from Gieseler which is Kompakt II DAC. Thank you.

@PassionforSound

11 ай бұрын

I've got the new DAC coming from Gieseler soon with the Philips TDA1504 chip

@midorihibiki

11 ай бұрын

@@PassionforSound I have upgraded to Ferrum Hypsos power supply and the result is dramatic. I use Sennheiser HD650 more than Denon D9200 now. The power supply does help to improve the soundstage of Sennheiser 650 and lift of some of the veil from Sennheiser HD650. Now I think Hd650 is one of the best headphones in history. Which correct setups this headphones is one of the bests. Thank you PassionforSound.

Can't figure you're click Baiting or really Hopelessly Lost in the "Audiophool" nervana rabbit Hole but really Good at the Game !!

Excellent video, this is the portion of a setup that hurts. I think "getting my house clean" as for layout and positioning is in order first. Then a revisit as in a gesheli dac, elimtinate or significantly reduce the little hum with a better DAC? This is a far cry from "Bang for buck" but can't be overlooked or ignored. When I hear it aloud, gives addition ideas how to circumnavigate fine tuning.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yes, these tweaks can be a valuable final step or long term investment because many of these tweaks can stay with you as you upgrade the main devices around them.

@rodm1949

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound Thanks, now it offers me the question "Is the USB or RCA the best option from a PC". The reasoning behind that is - if I use a Geshelli Archel 3 Pro and feed it RCA and then preout for the TUBES.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

You'd want USB from the PC and then into a DAC - computer sound is generally pretty crappy.

@rodm1949

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound I've decided to drop the hammer on a Burson Playmate 2, this will give me a solid state option - DAC and preamp for tube. Is there a better option at this price range?

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

I don't specifically know the Playmate 2, but Burson know what they're doing - should be a great choice.

Some of the improvements here are not audiophile specific even though they get sold as such. For example, a well terminated cable with as little as possible resistance (impedance) is going to transfer signal better as it moves towards transparency in the circuit. The thing that makes a lot of people extremely skeptical is often the price premium, such as on those IEM cables you have there, they cost as much as some respectable IEMs that come with their cables, eartips and case, so one would say rather just buy a higher end IEM and enjoy the technology it comes with. Thank you for tackling another controversial topic Lachlan.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Great points Tai Dee!

It would be cool if you could somehow set up a blind test for yourself

@PassionforSound

11 ай бұрын

I've just finished a blind listening event today with nine people attending and will share extensive thoughts and results soon...

You’re trying to be way too nice lol

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

In what way?

@shipsahoy1793

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound The way you started out in the video with your long winded explanation of the term snake oil, I just felt compelled to make that comment.. ☕️🤔 If I actually watched the whole video first, before commenting during, I probably wouldn’t have bothered to say anything like that. It was/is really not anything worth documenting, it was more or less a tongue-in-cheek of the moment. Cheers!🥳👨🏻

@Nightjar726

Жыл бұрын

It’s called being kind and soft spoken. Something lost since the internet. That’s what Lachlan is doing. And one of the reasons I like him. He’s kind and you can tell.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for explaining. All good 🙂

@TheVeganVicar

Жыл бұрын

The nicest guy in audio. 😊

The definition of snakeoil is dude's filling their doors with kitty litter

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Their doors? Guessing that's a typo...

@error4159

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound My bad, I typed this on the subway and the KZread app ate most of my post, lol. What I was trying to post is, guys were filing their interior doors with kitty litter because it supposedly produced better room acoustics than MDF or solid wood doors

@PassionforSound

11 ай бұрын

LOL. Yep, that's snake oil for sure, I expect. The density / weight of the door might help to prevent some vibration and increased resonance, but surely we have to draw a line somewhere...

@error4159

11 ай бұрын

@@PassionforSound You'd think so but no leap is to far for real audiophile, lol

Rather than use a noisy computer for your source it's much better to use a quiet DAP.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

True, but that's not always possible and they can have their own drawbacks

There seems to be a contradiction in your assessment. For the HS02, you say no sound improvement, just removal of noise. But when you get to the reclocker, you say that there was an improvement in sound quality, which was lessened for those DACs with galvanic isolation. This implies that the galvanic isolation consideration IS relevant to sound quality, in which case the isolator should show similar improvement (while being a much better value). I'm guessing it's more a matter of the native clocking being better in the galvanic-isolated DACs, reducing the reclocking benefit? Or what? Aside: I bought a highly regarded external clock to pair with my Gustard R26, and found no noticeable change whatsoever

@PassionforSound

11 ай бұрын

Ah, sorry! I was unclear. The noise that the HS02 removes was audible noise (like a ground loop hum or similar types). The reclocker is (I think) helping to remove inaudible noise/issues with the signal or power and that's resulting in an improved listening experience.

Did you measure the phase noise ? Is it better than a $100 smsl, topping dac. Why not show these measurements ? Show me this noise on usb, you have the numbers ! My dacs measurements are way beyond anthing i can possibly hear.

@PassionforSound

7 ай бұрын

Which product are you talking about? There are four or five in this video

As a network engineer by profession who knows his ethernet standards, packets, frames, error correction I can confidently tell you that this is all complete bollocks! Companies have gone too far and should be held to account for fraud. So cold audiophiles like this guy need to be done for fraud too!

@PassionforSound

4 ай бұрын

I think you're overlooking the influence of noise (i.e. noise picked up along the signal path) influencing things like clock accuracy and ground plane noise in the DAC and also getting through to the analog circuits in the DAC and amp. None of this is to look at any phase shifts caused by things like cables and components in the source chain. Comparing signal engineering from an IT/telecommunications standpoint to audio is a bit like comparing car engines and boat engines. Yes, both operate on similar overall principles, but the optimisation of one will be different from the other.

@AudriusN

Ай бұрын

@@PassionforSound "Comparing signal engineering from an IT/telecommunications standpoint to audio" - OMG, networks DO NOT CARE what type of data is in the payload, they only care about delivery Source>Destination.

They have been measured audiophile switches and Net gear was quieter ... 😮 all switches reclock .. Ive Tested 2 against the netgear 10 g switch was best !

@PassionforSound

5 ай бұрын

Which particular switches though? Like any product, there will be good and bad in every category.

I love that you keep testing products like these. The opposition I often see to these types of tweaks is that people don't understand why they work, therefore they're immediately branded as snake oil. Then I often see psychoacoustics or something similar brought up, as if thousands of people all over the world are just imagining hearing the exact same thing. The changes I hear are the same as you, and I can hear them at any time of the day, they are repeatable. But of course, I can't be trusted because I haven't ABX tested every single tweak lol. I've seen people who have compared op amps in their dacs, heard a clear difference, but then made measurements and not found a difference in how they measured. After these results they then dismissed what they heard and claimed it was all in their imagination. I think that's complete madness. Somehow it never occurred to them that they measured the wrong thing, and that what they heard was in fact "real". I have some experience with USB improvement products. I'm currently using a iFi Nano iUSB 3.0. I also own an iFi iSilencer+, which I feel is more hit and miss compared to the Nano iUSB. Back when I was using a Musician Phoenix dac the iSilencer+ made USB sound better. But when I later bought an Audio GD DI-20 DDC the iSilencer+ made the sound worse instead. It made the sound more distorted and harder. The Nano iUSB 3.0 on the other hand is still in my signal chain as it's a clear improvement. What it does is improve the 3d sensation of the sound, with better layering and separation, also sounding cleaner. I've changed the power supply on the Nano iUSB from the stock iPower power supply to an iPowerX, which further improved the sound, although only slightly. If these products didn't make the sound better, I'd get rid of them. Who wants to have a million boxes with their own power supplies filling up the room? But the improvement is big enough that I care, so I'm keeping them. Based on your video from last year comparing USB cables in a blind test, I recently upgraded from Supra Excalibur USB cables to Neotech Neub-1020 cables. I can't say this upgrade was good value for money, but it did make the sound better. It removed some hardness and improved imaging and layering. The fun thing about improvements like these is that I don't know what to expect, so the change comes as a surprise. As it turns out, it's often exactly as you (and others) described it, but you don't know what the change feels like until you hear it. When listening to music after the USB cable change, I found myself pausing the music because I thought I was hearing strange noises coming from outside my window. But instead, it was just sounds in the mix that appeared to come from that direction that I hadn't heard before. If you want to try some more controversial products, I recommend testing the iFi Supanova power cable. I have two of them. First, I bought one for my Audio-GD R8, and I was surprised it clearly improved the resolution of the dac. This was in comparison to Supra power cables and Ludic Aesir cables. The Supra and Ludic cables were roughly on the same level of sound quality, just with different presentation styles. The iFi Supanova cables on the other hand were a clear upgrade. Very obvious with the HD 800 headphones, but also via my speakers. The second Supanova cable is connected to an SPL Phonitor X, and again it had the same effect of improving the resolution of the sound compared to my previous power cables. If someone out there wants to blow money on power cables, I can more or less guarantee that these will make the sound better. Just don't use them for speaker power amps, as the active circuits in the cable don't seem to play well with high power drawing electronics. The regular Nova is better suited for high power amps.

@Ray-dl5mp

Жыл бұрын

I have a feeling part of the disconnect with people on these topics is...there are clear differences in sounds with filters especially. So upscaling through HQP or perhaps using different filters on dacs/other devices definitely has a different sound to it. I've heard it and how it can change the soundstage, one of the main things we can't measure well yet. But I also think there is another major component to audio tweaks that everyone seems to skip over. Just because something sounds different, doesn't mean it's better. People get it when they talk about how almost everything with audio has trade offs. Clearly if your signal is not ideal and then it clears up, then it's just a straight improvement. But I had a wow moment going from HQP upscaling PCM to DSD and being totally convinced it sounds better. And it does from a wow standpoint, but then I went back to PCM from my computer to my dac directly with USB and nothing fancy out of the computer into the DAC and I think I preferred the sound for things like orchestra music where it had a natural sound to it. So again, I think this is part of the disconnect of all these arguments for and against things or is this snake oil or not. There are differences, some real...some perhaps perceived, but then there's the overall argument can you IMPROVE a good PCM signal. You can change it, but can you actually improve it or are there always inherent trade offs. You can improve it for genres of music, or what the end user prefers. No doubt about that in my mind, but I'm not convinced it's actually improved in reality from the purity of the good signal. But I still love the idea of improving my connection with FMC mods, thinking about getting the Supra Excalibur cable, thinking about the Holo Red for example and other tweaks. So I'm a person right in the middle of the debate and I think there is truth on all sides in audio. Which makes it a fun hobby. I think like a lot of things in life, people are either all the way on one side or the other and think the other side are fools. I think there is a lot of grey and truth within it all. Because preference is different than truth, but we get them mixed up.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Both great comments and shared experiences - thank you! When it comes to improving a PCM signal, I'd say the answer seems to be (I'm no expert on the science/maths of it) that you can't improve the actual original sample, but you can improve the accuracy of its reconstruction from digital samples to analog waveform.

@PeterHas

Жыл бұрын

@@Ray-dl5mp I used to own the Asus Essence III, until I accidentally broke it. That dac was incredible in how many options it gave the user for tweaking the analog output stage. It had 13 op amps on easily swappable sockets. During my 10+ years of owning it I made probably over two hundred comparisons of many different op amps. It taught me that the analog output stage has a huge impact on the resulting sound. So no matter what dac chip, upsampling technique or whatever is used, the sound can then be tuned in many ways by the manufacturer at the output stage. Some brands like Marantz and Esoteric convert all signals to DSD, including PCM, and then have an analog output stage tuned to how DSD sounds to achieve what they feel is the best sound. Most dacs probably prioritize the PCM sound, with DSD being added more like an experimental bonus. And this is probably why you (and I) prefer just using PCM. I like that there are a lot of unknowns in audio still, and also many strong opinions about how things are and should be. It seems we can't yet visualize and present everything we hear in a way that easily explains what we're hearing. But things keep improving on that front. We've come a long way in the past 10 years, and I'm sure people will keep finding techniques for how to objectively measure and present the parts of sound that are important for musical enjoyment. Until then, we'll have to keep going by subjective accounts of what something sounds like, even if that drives a lot of people crazy who are used to buying things based on charts.

USB Reclocker: low noise power supply with a standard transformer?? A transformer is typically considered a high volume RF transmitter, beside being quasi illegal in California (due to phantom load). Also, if you are spending over $1000 on such an item, why not buy a better DAQ for less?

@PassionforSound

5 ай бұрын

I'm not suggesting anybody should buy a USB reclocker for use on a low end system worth anything less than $1000 or more. I think I said this in the video.

Snake oil, you mean like headphone cables. The headphone show can't hear any difference between cables that measure the same. Golden sound also can't hear any difference and he has very good ears.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

This is an interesting one. When people can't hear differences between cables that measure the same, why do people not claim confirmation bias? Those that rely on measurements are still equally susceptible to bias.

USB has no jitter. It's an asynchronous communication.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

As I understand it, the jitter is from the timing data sent with the audio data. The reclocker provides a more accurate set of timing data I believe. Regardless of how the jitter is transmitted, of USB has no jitter, why do all measurements of streamers, DACs, etc. that use USB emphasise jitter?

@J_SAMa

Жыл бұрын

​@@PassionforSound So long as jitter is within spec it does not affect the data. You're literally implying that USB sticks and external harddrives would never be able to transmit a single file without corrupting them :)

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

No, data transfer has checking and resending capabilities. Audio does not

@SteveWille

Жыл бұрын

I have to say, the USB reclocker section of the video broke my possibly flawed mental model of USB audio. Perhaps at one time, before “USB Audio 2.0” (note I’m not referring to the USB Hardware 2.0 standard), a USB reclocker could have time domain impact on a DAC. In those “USB Audio 1.0” days, I think the clocking occurred on the sender-side (PC-side). In this situation a reclocker with a more accurate clock could have impact on a DAC that was at the mercy of the sender. With the advent of “USB Audio 2.0”, the data must be clocked on the DAC; the DAC’s USB module provides the pacing for the data fed internally to the D2A converter stage. In this situation, a reclocker cannot influence time domain performance, but, depending on the DAC, there may still be other benefits of galvanic isolation and improved USB 5V power, though there would be little reason not to use, instead, a cheaper device that provides only these benefits.

@J_SAMa

Жыл бұрын

​@@SteveWille spot on. The most important point Lachlan missed is that a reclocker wouldn't do much with any DAC. If the noise/distortion is due to jitter on the host PC's USB clock, the loss of signal information occurs between the PC and the reclocker and can't possibly be "recovered" downstream by the reclocker. The difference between jitter distortion and ground loop issues is that with jitter, the digital signal itself is altered, which is impossible to fix without resending the packet.

Unwanted noise. Don't like it, can't stand it, will not tolerate it. The more cables I shield the quieter of my room becomes. The last group of cables I shielded were my HDMIs and lo & behold the room became slightly quieter get again. All in the cables mate, all in the cables.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Any noise is bad noise 🙂

@carlosr.2027

5 ай бұрын

How do you go about shielding your cables

@totalplonker824

5 ай бұрын

When going through the process of shielding ones setup, ideally, one should start with the lengthiest cables first. Cables act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna! Explains why when I used to disconnect my Heights and surrounds on my HT setup, within 5 minutes, the faint background signal noise (noise noise) became noticeably quieter. Analogue cables first. (speaker / RCA cables) Shielding speaker and RCA cables should suffice for most people. However, if one is as sensitive as myself.. digital cables plus power cables, preferably going into a power bar/conditioner, which has independent output sockets to stop mains noise cross contamination from connected equipment. (Subjective) When friends or guests come over, I used to show them how loud it goes. Now I show them how quiet it goes. No one gets it. Of course 😂 Hope this helps. Good luck, my fellow listener.

"Reinigen" is german and means "cleaning".

@PassionforSound

6 ай бұрын

Yes. Thanks for adding that here

If something sounds different it will measure differently. If you can't show the different measurement it's just snake oil.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Nope. You're assuming again that we can measure everything we can perceive and we can't. I've cited multiple studies in previous reviews (I think my LPS review) where we are still learning about auditory perception well beyond what we can measure (or what we know to measure for)

@dangerzone007

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound I could be wrong but I don't think I am. As far as I'm concerned music reproduction is all about physics. The physics of a headphone cable can be easily measured. If you can point me to a blind study where people can identify different headphone cables that would be interesting. Are you a member of the AES. They might have something on this.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

You're missing the point of what I said before. The science of measurement is only as good as what we KNOW to measure (capitals for emphasis, not shouting). AES or any other governing body can't influence, regulate or standardise how an unknown factor is managed. Here are just a few examples of things we don't understand and therefore can't measure for: 1) How the brain separates a complex waveforms to then perceive individual sounds 2) Which characteristics of signal transmission directly influence soundstage perception (transient timing accuracy seems to play a part here, but there's more to it) 3) The role of inaudible high frequency content in auditory perception - multiple early studies have proven that naturally occurring high frequency content about 20kHz somehow alters the way listeners perceive the sound, but they don't yet know how or why

@dangerzone007

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound all that stuff is irrelevant. All you have to do is measure the difference between one end of the cable and the other. If there's no difference there's no difference.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

But what are you measuring? Sure, you can measure impedance, inductance and capacitance, but what about factors like which frequencies are travelling in which parts of the wire and what speeds? What influence does this have on our perceptions of the sound? We don't know. How is the cable influencing the timing of arrival of different frequencies? What are the thresholds of our sensitivity to this? Again, we don't know. The moment we think we know all there is to know is the moment we close our minds to the possible variables we don't yet know. This is the opposite of a scientific approach.

In your comparisons, are you doing blind AB tests? Because if not, I would have to discount your impressions. Confirmation bias so very easy to fall victim too.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Confirmation bias requires the results to match expectations. In multiple cases in this video, my expectations were for little to no change (e.g. network switch, Ares S 8W cable and the DC cable). As one person, there's no effective way for me to do blind testing, but there are also ways to combat expectation bias (e.g. acknowledging and challenging your own assumptions, seeking to disprove your own findings, etc.) It's also why I've setup my upcoming blind listening event to gather further information on some selected audio tweaks.

In a similar way to usb clocking, network switches cannot ever affect sound quality. The digital signal getting from one end to the other is exactly the same, regardless of the noise on the cable. The jitter/noise is either high enough to flip a bit in the transmission, or it is completely negligable. The sample data is played back with the a/d converter which is on a separate clock signal, and isolated from the usb data lines. Even if a bit is flipped, it will be detected with the built-in CRC check of the ethernet protocol, or in the upper level protocols, and the frame will be resent until it's successful. Testing these products using an ABX test instead of one prone to inducing palcebo effect would reveal absolutely no differences.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

People seem to say this a lot without ever trying them for themselves. Like I said in the video, I came in sceptical, but was impressed. If they're removing noise that would otherwise enter the streamer circuit then that would explain it.

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound The noise thing is true in the analog realm, but not the digital one. See the Morse code analogy in my other comment. Noise in the network interface doesn't change the audio signal. Just trying the product is not enough. The placebo effect can literally change our perception of pain and anxiety, so believe me it can affect our perception of sound. It doesn't help that snake oil is specifically designed to exploit this aspect of our psychology. newsinhealth.nih.gov/2023/01/powerful-placebo You should do a blind test if you're certain there's a difference. Then you could prove there's one to naysayers like me, and more importantly to yourself.

@MrTurdskin

10 ай бұрын

That's an overly simplistic understanding digital networks. All signal transmissions are flawed in some way and the longer they have to travel in an imperfect cable, the worse the signal gets. Bits are bits, but perfect bit transmission and conversation does not exist. The differences may be small, but until it sounds like there is an actual orchestra in my living room, I'm going to seek for improvement.

DC cable: $200 for a cable you can easily create yourself with $25 12 gauge speaker cable and $10 worth of connectors? I can believe that this cable is more resistant to RF noise, but the price is a ripoff.

anyone want to buy the Brooklyn bridge? 😁 there are 3 kinds of snakeoil - firstly things that do nothing, secondly cables; which you need, but unsubstantiated/ unproven claims on performance & thirdly things which may perform well, but are priced like a car or house. even if i were a gazillionaire i would still not entertain assholes selling power cables for 10k. good video; glamour video, thank you ✌😎👍

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

There is definitely a limit on where I think people should spend money and invest in audio tweaks, but I am hopeful to provide some degree of evidence about some of this stuff via the blind listening event.

@frederf69

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound look forward to that video?

@alphaniner3770

Жыл бұрын

I would like to add a fourth kind: Snakeoil gear that actually harms the sound - removing the power filter from my system had a significant positive impact :) - now it is used to power my Dremel.

@frederf69

Жыл бұрын

@@alphaniner3770 😅 love it! thanks for adding a fourth kind of snake oil, there probably more. BTW does your dremel sound better now? 🤣

@alphaniner3770

Жыл бұрын

@@frederf69 I guess that I have to blind A/B the Dremel :) - but the power sockets are dust proof, and it is impossible to accidentally drill through the aluminium case, so that is nice at least.

Mate, I hope no one from Audio Science Review takes notice of your video, because I guarantee you will become the running joke for years to come 😂

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

I already am, I think. Not really a concern though - they have a very certain and unwavering perspective on things that I've given up trying to discuss/navigate.

@michaelwright1602

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound Is that not the truth. You have to wonder if they ever listen to or audition the gear they bash.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yes. I get the sense that either they don't or that their starting position is so biased that they won't hear any differences anyway. I sometimes laugh to myself at the wilful bias that many of the members there demonstrate so often while jumping on videos like these and claiming bias on the reviewer's behalf.

🎸Life‘s a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all !! 😉

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's profound!

@shipsahoy1793

Жыл бұрын

@@PassionforSound ❤️that Jethro Tull tune!😉

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Yep, it's a goodie

With the reclocker specifically. Most (almost all) DACs do that by themselves to a level that is far beyond the accuracy of human hearing, but also redo it with a few dollars worth of electronics after the reclocker so it is certainly pointless in most situations.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's not been my experience on many levels. Both reclockers like the Reinigen and DDCs like the Topping U90 and Singxer SU-6 bring significant improvements to the sound by better handling the signal.

@Joel-m777

Жыл бұрын

It’s a shame you almost have to apologise in advance to make a video like this because some enthusiasts insist on projecting their beliefs upon others. I have owned the Gieseler Reinigen and can attest to its utility. In my opinion it will easily beat most streamers under $2k and higher when fed directly from a computer. Hoping one day you could review high end cd transports vs streaming. Maybe when Schiit finally release their new cd transport which I believe will be also a usb Re clocking device as well . Great video. Thank you!

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's exactly the plan for the Urd review once the Urd is released 😁 As for the need for apologising, yes it's a shame. The hobby really doesn't need to be contentious, but some people choose to make it a black-and-white argument despite the ridiculous number of known and unknown variables that we're dealing with from system to system and person to person.

The power of placebo is strong....all subjective testing, throw in some objective testing to be fair .....

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

That's what the blind test is for, Steve. That said, I often discuss products where I expected nothing but heard a difference and other times where I'll say that there was no difference or so little as to be questionable. I'll always call it out if the difference is possibly in the realm of brain trickery, but there's a level at which audible differences become obviously real IME - the sort of level where you can play the two options to someone who has no idea what's happening and they'll ask "what just changed?" Healthy skepticism is a good thing, but I think this hobby has overcompensated towards blind ignorance in many cases.

I just don't think subjective reviews can be broadly applicable for many of these products. The claims by the manufacturer need to be demonstated and reproducible by some slate of measurements in various test setups. I do not invalidate people's perception of changes or "improvements" after adding X into a system; human psychology is afterall apart of the hobby. That's why it's not enough for products to be functional we also want them to look cool or have interesting names. But when you're asking someone to spend 650 USD for a network switch and then you attribute benefits to the device which lie outside the capabilities of what a network switch is and does, then you'd better have the data to show your work. Also (to anyone reading this) beware of caveat-creep. I find when I advise others that I can't hear any difference using a USB reclocker or swapping a network device or power supply, it's because I need a better DAC or because I'm not using a balanced chain or because I'm not using the appropriate playback software, or I need better cables. A product should be able to deliver a consistent and regular set of results... REGARDLESS. This ambiguous soup of audio superlatives that are interchangeably attributed to these devices are (unfortunately) hollow. Consumers should be skeptical and should absolutely buy with a rock solid understanding of the return policy.

No such thing as Snake Oil in audio you say? Sir, I'd like to point you to that $10,000 Audiophile Rock as well as rip-offs like the Aqvox network switch, which is just a bog-basic switch that has a couple of stickers slapped on the inside. Outside of things like those though, I've come to have a love/hate relationship with Snake Oil claims. I like testing them so I can form my own opinion, but I hate it because they have yet to not make a difference. Which means I have to spend more money on stupid things like cables, improving my digital front-end, better power supplies, etc.

@PassionforSound

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, you have a point about the rocks and dodgy products - I might have been unclear. I'm with you on the rest though. So many of the supposed snake oil products (the ones made by reputable people/companies) are actually helpful tweaks for lots of setups. I think the dodgy operators have spoiled things for the good operators out there.

@vladimirharant3128

8 ай бұрын

Oh boy, if you ever had an idea, how wrong you actually are about Audiophile Rocks and Aqvox switch, you'd be ashamed of yourself badly. I don't even have to ask you whether you tried any of those or not, because it's so obvious..

@PassionforSound

8 ай бұрын

That's fair. I'm being sceptical without ever trying them and I've been surprised before.

@vladimirharant3128

8 ай бұрын

​@@PassionforSound My response was aimed at Michael, who was specifically bashing tweaks, which I happen to own to GREAT effect in my rather sophisticated chain (100+ components). Just a food for thought for you Lachlan - isn't it odd that the hated Audiophile Rocks has 106 ONLY positive reviews on eBay? What are the odds, if his products are just supposed snake oil? Anyways, Patrick (the owner) is offering 90 days money back guarantee on his tweaks and he's actually one of the nicest guys I ever dealt with in audio industry. Anyone can arrange some risk-free demoing and then speak from his actual experience, rather than supposition.

@PassionforSound

8 ай бұрын

That's a great point. Anyone with doubts should absolutely just try them rather than operating on assumptions.

Don't own headphones, so not relevant for me. Noticed the backwall, see ya, cheers!

Omg ... you're able to hear DC cable ... , stop spending money on craps and start a therapy ..., you've lost me on this one ...

you forgot to put Chord products

Cough MScaler cough

Those items do nothing. Zero. Dont be fooled by what the manufacturer says.

@PassionforSound

11 ай бұрын

That's why I wanted to test them. They all made a difference

What absolute rubbish. A network switch has ZERO impact on the audio quality. According to the review it "changed the sound". Really? In which case it transformed the string of 1's and 0's in the digital data stream. Easy way to prove this is rubbish. Create a 10mb text file that consists of sequential 101010 transmit across the switch to another device. Oh look, the file is exactly the same. Or take a 30mb RAW image file, MD5SUM it. Transmit across the switch. Is the picture brighter/punchier/more detailed? Nope. md5sum it... oh look, same MD5SUM

@PassionforSound

4 ай бұрын

Perhaps head over the Alpha Labs for their objective measurements of how the noise that better switches filter out can directly influence the jitter in downstream devices.

@alanlewis1455

4 ай бұрын

@@PassionforSound So when I read articles that talk about adding "calmness and blackness" to the sound.... its snake oil. not one single audiophile company or reviewer has EVER produced an objective result via instrumentation, its all subjective phrases such as an "enhanced soundscape", and phrases that cannot be held to any demonstrable standard. Much like toothpaste companies that claim "up to 6 shades whiter in one week".... as there is no definition of a "shade'. Any when called out, no audiophile ever directly answers the issue raised. Perhaps you can explain how a switch changes the data packet contents to improve the picture? or the audio? Oh, and change the IP packetheader checksum at the same time.... I challenge you to explain that.

@PassionforSound

4 ай бұрын

As I said, Alpha Labs have objectively measured the impact of a network switch. It's all about noise being picked up, created and/or passed on by the switch. Noise in audio devices is known to create a brighter, harsher sound so, it makes sense that a device removing noise from the circuit will result in a smoother, more relaxed sound. You can choose to hold you opinion or you can choose to look at that data provided by Alpha Labs. I'll leave it with you.

@alanlewis1455

4 ай бұрын

@@PassionforSound And once again you dodge the question and peddle tosh. Alpha Labs have NOT objectively measured the impact of a network switch and produced definitive quantifiable results. They used subjective phrases such as "increased blackness in the audio". Secondly, and again. Please explain how any of this "noise" affects the datastream and tcp checksum header. You cant. Because it doesnt.

@PassionforSound

4 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/lqeosZJvZZPVe84.htmlsi=xDcGosP8VQze_lzb

First link in digital audio chain , is the streamer playing music from its buffer, anything before that ( ethernet switch cables nas) is just use to coppy 0s and 1s. Belive that music is play by the nas , is nonesense, and not understand how digital music works. Disconnect the network cable in the streamer, and you will still have 4 or 5 seconds of music. Because music starts in the BUFFER. Ethernet switch ,nas or cables do not affect sound quality

@PassionforSound

10 ай бұрын

I thought the same going into this...

@vladimirharant3128

8 ай бұрын

...another one who has zero experience with actually trying these devices in a well built system and tries to convince everyone else based on his limited knowledge.. typical human lol

@santiagofederici5819

8 ай бұрын

@@vladimirharant3128 yes like Paul Mcgowan from PS audio , ceo of a top high end audio brand for example. You should read more ..investigate and not be an easy target to marketing sales department's