Smash that like and subscribe button if you know someone who blindly follows trends with total disregard for the mechanical function.

@Trumplican

Жыл бұрын

the like ratio should match the views in that case!

@waruikoneko1635

Жыл бұрын

I only have 2 ARs with anti-walk pins, but that was because I swapped out the old triggers for drop-ins that came with the pins. I haven't had any issues on my mil-spec triggers, so if ain't broke...

@zeroinkev

Жыл бұрын

What do you recommend for an 80% lower? Because God knows that there’s no way that my tolerances are dead nuts.

@Trumplican

Жыл бұрын

@@zeroinkev well if you are using a regular fire control group(separate trigger and hammer) the hammer spring is still going to hold both pins in. Some pins are specific to the trigger or hammer so make sure the trigger pin has a notch on each side and the hammer pin has one in the center. Many are universal though where they have notches on the ends and in the center on both pins. if you think your tolerances are bad and could cause trigger malfunctions then a drop in trigger would be the way to go and with most of those you should have anti-walk pins. If you used a jig your tolerances are likely just fine for a regular fire control group setup.

@sjl9942

Жыл бұрын

I had to install them on my build because either the holes on my lower were out of spec or my pins from the kit were out of spec, so instead of figuring out what the problem actually was I just fixed it that way. And yes I installed the pins the correct way and they started to walk out then I reversed them and they still walked out.

Thank you for the kind words Steve and Caleb. Great episode as always.

@JDC_Outside

Жыл бұрын

Chad, I love your channel! Thank you for all of your content, it has helped me out immensely and I am deeply grateful for the knowledge you’ve shared with us all. Brownell’s you guys rock too!

@SchooloftheAmericanRifle

Жыл бұрын

@@JDC_Outside thank you very much.

@cameronallen5043

Жыл бұрын

Chad I’ve learned so much from your channel and the fb group. I need to plan a trip out for a class next time you post something up

@1rstTry

Жыл бұрын

@@JDC_Outside pretty sure he’s taken bro

@1rstTry

Жыл бұрын

Cheers. Well deserved

Had thousands of M16A1 and M16A2 rifles in the arms rooms under my command over the years. The M16A1 rifles had seen Vietnam's jungle paradise. NEVER had any problem with fire control group pins walking out, and those had THREE pins for the select fire control groups. NEVER had any problem with the pins wallowing out the receiver holes. NEVER had any pins break. A properly designed and installed 2-piece civilian semi-auto fire control group with the correct pins does not need anti-rotation or anti-walk pins. The springs will hold the pins in place.

@zack9912000

Жыл бұрын

THIS. Buy real quality controlled parts, and it's a non-issue. Buy cheap crap from anderson and psa, and you will have issues.

@TeSolycMandalor

Жыл бұрын

When did you serve?

@ShepherdOfTheSilkies

Жыл бұрын

@@zack9912000 Colt lower and geissele pins walked on me multiple times. Lower is in spec but the geissele pin spring channels are too shallow. It’s not common but it does happen.

@Sparks52

Жыл бұрын

@@ShepherdOfTheSilkies I've got Geissele 2-stage (more than one) and never had a problem -- ever -- but it REQUIRES installing the trigger control group per Geissele instructions, which too many will pitch into the trash without reading them, along with the circular spring clip they include to hold the hammer pin in place.

@colby1398

Жыл бұрын

@@zack9912000 lmao if you think either of those are shipping out bad pins of all things.

I put my trigger spring in backwards. I had pins backing out, but other than that it worked okay. I saw a Smyth Busters episode about the 5 biggest mistakes new builders make. One was putting the hammer spring backwards. I checked mine, found it to be backwards. Once I reassembled the hammer with the spring correctly installed, no more pin walking.

Thanks for posting. I had a pin walk at the range the other day and my brother quickly sent me the product he recommended to fix the issue. I watched this video and realized that my pin walked because the spring for my hammer wasn't resting on the groove you show at 6:02. I had it on the floor of the lower. I have about 120 rounds on my first AR and it has been a learning experience. Thanks to Brownell's for putting out quality information for us to draw from!

@kauboy9816

Жыл бұрын

Way too many AR home builders do that. Don't feel too bad.

@marxshayken

Жыл бұрын

just read your comment and checked my hammer spring. it was upside down so the spring leg was at too high of an angle to catch the groove on the pin lol. i shot 200 rounds on it with my pin walking all over the place haha.

School of the American Rifle is awesome.

@vinceburris2538

Жыл бұрын

Yep, Chad is the AR wizard. Love the guy.

@project86xero

Жыл бұрын

​@Vince Burris Yeah. If you ever wanted to know how all the little things make a big difference just watch his videos or read one of his articles. Better yet go take a class. Although I gotta be honest I have anti rotation pins on all my Aero M4E1 lowers, even though they almost all have Geissele triggers. I have the type g pin versions though. An yes I recognize they can cause more problems, but mostly do nothing. I just can't help it. They look too cool. I'm sorry... not sorry.

@awp97128

Жыл бұрын

Sotar alumni 2020 here

@ETHRON1

Жыл бұрын

Agreed 👍

@MrTylero28

Жыл бұрын

SOTAR is changing the industry with Chad’s approach to checking and verifying each and every aspect of your build. The fact that we have someone holding manufacturers accountable. By showing that a name doesn’t necessarily mean BEST. They all make mistakes and they all have some flaws slip through to the consumer. Having black and white information showing the issues of X,Y and Z are genuinely making us the consumers BETTER consumers because we know more

I lost the trigger pin out of a Knight's SR-15. Man, that pissed me off. Anti-rotation pins installed the next day. No issues since.

What I’ve been doing is using standard pins for mil spec triggers and anti rotation pins for cassette triggers, typically I match brands in terms of pins and triggers

@kauboy9816

Жыл бұрын

If you're using cassette triggers that already have bushings, anti-walk pins are needed, but anti-rotation pins give no additional benefit over anti-walk. The pin passes through the bushing. The springs never interact with them, but only the bushings.

Anyone who tells you they never saw pins walk or pin holes get wallowed out…good for them. They are lucky. I was an armorer and literally had to take lowers out of service because of this problem. KNS pins were the only thing that allowed the receivers to be returned to service. Does it happen often? No. Does it happen? Yes. Can it happen to your rifle? Yes. Is a set of pins cheaper than a new lower? Yes. Prove me wrong.

Not a complete necessity, but definitely doesn't hurt anything.

Funny thing about this is there are Top manufacturers that put them on military/police rifles from the factory...Colt, LWRC, CMMG and a few others over the years...

Rifles built on 80% receivers have no hard anodizing in the pin holes to prevent excessive wear. The anti-rotation pin kits keep the trigger and hammer axii in the correct relationship to each other.

@tim556

Жыл бұрын

true, the standard pins spin on the bare aluminum and wear on it.

@b.a.lineman7582

Жыл бұрын

Take care in drilling the pin holes as they use the smallest bit… a drill chip can get caught and egg out a hole possibly causing a mil spec trigger to not function properly. … ask me how I know

@greygunner

Жыл бұрын

I think they covered that with "bad lowers". Then that is where to use the modular trigger and as Chad says "the sum of the parts", equals a good lower.

@shanek6582

Жыл бұрын

@@b.a.lineman7582you need to discover reamers young grasshopper..

@shanek6582

Жыл бұрын

Yup, aluminum oxide is hard! They make sandpaper grit from it, it's hard to believe aluminum can produce something so hard just by oxidizing

Another couple of reasons to use fixed pins. 1. you have an extremely valuable full auto lower and saving the lower forever is important so you you have to prevent pin hole wear. 2. you have an 80% where the pin holes are not anodized therefore they aluminum will wear more quickly from the pins constantly turning. I cut my own lowers and use .155 KNS pins in with my G triggers. G doesn't suggest it but it makes sense in my case.

I'm so glad to see this being talked about again

I have a SSA trigger in my LR308 polymer lower with anti rotation pins. The pins started eating into the polymer. In that case it really did help out from keeping the pins from waking out and giving the trigger group more strength.

@BurkeBerserker

9 ай бұрын

I'm not tryna be a dick bro but poly lowers are shit and you probably wouldn't even need those pins had the receiver been forged aluminum.

There needs to be a march to the capital! Walk For Anti-Walk Pins and Anti-Anti-Anti-Walkers for Anti-Rotation Pins. But always, yes. Too cheap not to do.

@dragonsofthunder

Жыл бұрын

March to the capital for THE REVOLUTION!!! It's been long overdue

@casualobserver3145

Жыл бұрын

I’m on it! I’ll also break out the shaman horns!

These guys are great. I am starting my first AR build and this channel has helped me so much in terms of understanding the platform and all of the options that I have. Thanks guys!

@unclebob540i3

Жыл бұрын

They also have some great tutorials on their site, I highly recommend watching them before your first build. Be warned, it's a deep rabbit hole and could be habit forming! Good luck and have fun.

@aguy5274

Жыл бұрын

@@unclebob540i3 Thanks for letting me know. I'll have to check that out.

Many of the firearm videos have some of the lamest humor but this one is just * cheffs kiss *. I could listen to those guys talk about anything firearm related.

Absolutely love the solid info. I only started building about a year ago and have already learned a lot on my own but listening to professionals is priceless. Thanks!

I have anti walk pins in one build. Was at a match and had the trigger pin walk and start causing doubles. This was from a LPK and may have been more the issue with the lower. Thanks for the video and the information on different use of the pins.

@gunsnstuff4040

Жыл бұрын

if you had a pin walking, you were already holding junk in your hands.

@PepeDeezNutz

9 ай бұрын

Sounds like a turd rifle

I've been wondering about this for awhile. I hadn't gotten around to doing any research on the matter because I've only bought factory AR's and have not built one yet, but that day is coming. As always this channel is a great education, solving problems before I even encounter them.

Great episode, I have used both antiwalk and anti rotation pins and have used some cheaper lowers where standard pins could fall out, but knowing the why from this video is great. Thanks!

I like anti-walk pins, gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing the pins can't move

@zack9912000

Жыл бұрын

Buy high-end parts from companies whose priority is absolute quality control, and they will be inspec. No need for them ever.

@seanomeirs8362

Жыл бұрын

Make sure that you always have the right tool to remove them, if you need to use the gun, for a serious/extended situation. I get a good feeling, that I can service the fire control group, with no tools.

@tightwad

Жыл бұрын

I've had screws back out. No I'm not using locTits because I'm a tinkerer that fondles each gun religiously. But I've seen pins move too, so springs don't always sit in slots preventing movement.

@krj15489

Жыл бұрын

@@zack9912000 If I buy a rifle I would expect things to work but most of my stuff is pieced together, drop in triggers, some 80% lowers, just easy to use anti-walk pins and it's doesn't cost much so I do them on every build regardless of spec.

There are a lot of variations on AR triggers. If you haven't already done so, it would be nice to have a side by side comparison and explanation of the differences between the different types -- and for what application they are best suited for.

The first time I ever considered using anti-walk/rotation pins was for a Daniel Defense that would walk out at the worst possible time and leave you dead in the water, now I use them with every drop in trigger I install. I’ve never used Geissele, but now seeing this I definitely won’t if I ever install one of their trigger systems. Great information guys.

@BigDaddyGAO

Жыл бұрын

Geissele is worth the hype and is a must have if you can afford it.

Mine does. Sometime your lower and pins are not quite in spec and they come loose. I just HAD to get anti walk pins because my pins kept walking out, lol. I just put them on all of my builds, they are not very $$$ and it provides a little more security. Plus I think they look cool.

@angeldesigns1385

Жыл бұрын

And that’s probably it. They are probably designed to remedy certain situations.

@kxkxkxkx

Жыл бұрын

Don't use a known defective firearm maybe 😮

@dragonsofthunder

Жыл бұрын

I've never used them, and I've never had issues with my factory pins. PSA, M&P15, and Windham rifles

@zack9912000

Жыл бұрын

If you buy cheap bargin bin brands like PSA and anderson thats the issue why they are not in spec. Hence, they are loose. There is zero quality control from those bargin bin brands. Buy from good companies, and this is a non issue

@voteholyk

Жыл бұрын

@@zack9912000 I have 5 Anderson lowers and it only did it on one pin. No big deal.

I’ve had one pin walk on me. Purchased an AR pistol at a pawn shop, took it to the range, and barely went through one mag before the pin walked. Turns out, whoever installed the trigger placed the spring under the pin. 😂

I started using anti-walk pins after experiencing my .300 Blackout providing a 2 round burst after the mil-spec trigger pin had started extending out the right side of the lower. At the time I did not understand why it was walking out, especially when the hammer spring was sitting where it should be.

My milspec trigger had standard pins and that makes perfect sense what you said about the hammer spring holding them in. I replaced it with a drop in trigger that came with anti-walk pins and it makes sense why. Glad you cleared that up. I like the grey.

I caught the pin for the trigger just before it came out on one side, while I was in the Army in the 70s. This is why I use pins that won’t walk out.

I’ve been using wooden dowels in my trigger group for years and they work fine.

Glad you put this video out, now I know when I would want to use these pins.

your rifle is broken, its supposed to have 3 pins

After watching your video, it has confirmed my curiosity of what the two types of pins different functions are. I also have found out that my assumptions were correct, thank you for your time and what you guys do everybody should be educated by each and every one of your videos.

Great video, thankyou! I am new to the AR-15, I have an assortment of bolt guns and this is my first semi-auto. Your videos have been very helpful.

Anti walk pins might be beneficial in a plastic lower

Very well said guys! I’ve tended towards two piece triggers with standard pins (Geissele SSA-E and G2S) for ease of cleaning, spring availability and maintenance. Had a cassette style trigger (Timney) and wasn’t happy with the set screws like you said, and decided I more preferred a two stage trigger setup system.

@Ash_95

Жыл бұрын

Do you have to use the set screws? Caleb seemed to imply they weren't necessary but reading the install guide from say Rise Armament, it sounds required.

@thereloadingcraft

Жыл бұрын

@@Ash_95 Timney says they’re required, and I would agree unless you want the whole trigger cassette flopping back and forth in the receiver on sloppy pin tolerances

@Ash_95

Жыл бұрын

@@thereloadingcraft ah, I see. Thanks for the info.

I have anti walk pins in a couple of my more robust SHTF AR’s but I honestly don’t think they are the most necessary things. I think it’s more of a psychological thing in regards to how you feel your weapon will hold up, in worst-case scenario situations.

Thanks for clearing up this topic. I have always used standard pins with the Geissele triggers in my ARs but there are always those nagging voices for anti-walk/anti/rotation pins that I hear which makes one wonder. I have never any problems with the standard pins, but knowing is better than hoping. I did install an Elftmann trigger in one AR and it was obvious the regular pins wouldn’t hold it in well. I took Elftmann’s advice and bought the anti-walk pin set they sold and cured the problem. Therefore, your advice on this type of trigger made complete sense, backed up from my experience. Once again - Excellent video!

I have a rifle whose pins walk every couple rounds. So in my case yes, the ONE time I don't use em I end up needing them.

Excellent information, this needed to be covered..

Interesting and I especially like the historical background on when and why these other pin options came into being

Yea but anti walk take up the slop with most receivers. Christ everyone and their mama has had trigger pins walk out. People taking it to the polar ends is always dumb but KNS are well worth it

Caleb… just wondering you did a close-up of the trigger and my daughter asked me if you get manicures…. And I said, of course he does not. He’s a man’s man.

Thank you for all the helpful videos gentlemen. Much respect from Englewood, Florida

this is a great video. Thank you for the information ! very helpful.

Crown Royal works for me, lol. Great video as always and very informative. Thank you.

My AR didn't come with anti rotation nor anti walk pins and hadn't been an issue. Thanks for clearing up the reasons one might benefit. Plus trigger education

I use anti walk pins on my all my triggers. Milspec and drop in. No issues. Great video.

@randomgeneratedname1264

10 ай бұрын

It's just another internet thing to highlight how X and Y is wrong. Your politics, your vehicle, your diet, your trigger pins.

@Brownells .My rifle is my Corvette. I cannot afford a Corvette, so I bought a rifle. I'm going to install anti walk pins strictly for Aesthetics. The little cap screws to hold the pins in are my hubcaps. The muzzle device is my muffler. My flashlight is a headlight. My scope has clear windshields. My backup sights are curb feelers. My lapped Barrel is a honed cylinder. My feed ramps are the intake manifold. My bolt carrier is my piston. My charging handle is my fuel injector. My push button safety is my emergency brake. My extended takedown pin is my hood release. My collapsing stock is my adjustable seat. My trigger is the gas pedal. My shoulder strap is my seatbelt. My vertical grip is my grab bar to get in and out of my Corvette. Add Fuel and drive. Total cost, not as much as a Corvette. 9.5lbs

Just an fyi I’ve used kns pins specifically made for Geissele triggers to their specifications and do not make a difference in pull weight or feel of the trigger pull. Kns pins were made for automatic rifles for the military. I’ve seen pins start to walk out from your DD, Geissele, knights. They don’t fall out but there is literally nothing wrong with using anti walk/ rotation pins in it. There was falsehoods said. It doesn’t cause any issues with lock up time.

Great video and excellent explanation of the mechanics of the systems.

Had a new AR shooter at the range ask me for advice. His trigger pin was walking out. A quick look and I saw that his hammer spring was on backwards. This put the legs of the spring at an angle where one could not sit in the groove on the trigger pin. It took only a few minutes to fix this problem. But when AR's are assembled correctly they don't need anti-walk pins. For drop-in trigger packs, yes, those need anti-walk pins. All that said, in the past 30+ years of building and shooting AR's I've never had pins walk out.

Lol it's funny how everytime I'm thinking about a certain part, a video from Brownells comes out about it about a couple days later 😂

Note that Geissele pins are slightly OVERSIZED compared to TDP. Not only are anti-walk pins not required with Geissele triggers, I am not aware of any anti-walk pins that have been proven to meet Geissele specs for pin diameter.

Excellent video. I was clueless, and now I see.

Reminds me of an old Computer Information system video saying Isopropyl Alcohol a shit ton in that video, the inside joke of that class was Isopropyl Alcohol for cleaning equipment

With drop in trigger kits the spring tension is contained within the housing so you Need anti-walk pins. The standard built in has spring tension on the noches in the pins keeping them from walking, like Glock , so you Don't need anti-walk pins

Excellent video, and the facts were spot on! Thank you.

Video starts @ 4:20

@CalebSavant

Жыл бұрын

Blaze it!

@FishFind3000

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for saving me the 4 minutes

@CalebSavant

Жыл бұрын

@@FishFind3000 That's what she said.

@TeSolycMandalor

Жыл бұрын

Wrong, it starts at 0:00

@mikecanul

Жыл бұрын

Hah!

I have had one lower (Spikes) that one of the pins (can't remember if it was the trigger or hammer) start to walk out one side. It was a new in box manufactured lower. After less than a mag it would be a few MMs out one side (right). I would tap back in and check to make sure the spring was set in good spot to secure it. After less than a mag the cycle repeated. So after not liking this I replace that pin with another and it continued. It always walked to the right. I assumed that whole was just out of spec. Not wanting to discard that lower I just bough a set of anti walk pins and have never worried about it again.

@bladesmith3

Жыл бұрын

i had the exact same problem

Trigger pins? I have been using a small allen wrench. Did seem a bit bulky. Great info and video guys!

Honestly only ever used milspec 2 stage triggers for service use and my ar has a geissele sse so i didn't have a full understanding of the pins and mechanics in the first place. Great educational video, glad to learn something new

Good video. I bought cheap pins and then found they did walk out while checking lower. So went anti walk. Tolerances from different companies vary. Lower is a piece of aluminum and not the strongest metal. The holes do oval out over time because pressures on them. And the different trigger groups. "There is a time and place".

I used KNS anti-rotation pins in my AR-9 PCC build. Since it uses a heavy buffer, heavy bolt carrier group & a .308 recoil spring, I had heard that the function can be extra-hard on the internals of the lower. It also uses a YHM 9mm slant brake to help reduce recoil from the heavy blowback action. Everything seems to be working really well at this point.

@b.a.lineman7582

Жыл бұрын

I was moving things around and put 9mm upper on a mil spec lower … wondering why this thing ran so damn good… heavy bolt … standard buffer. So smooth… funnest gun I have to shoot.

@chewinbubblegum2695

Жыл бұрын

@@b.a.lineman7582 That's good that it's running well. Keep an eye on your bolt catch because without the heavier recoil spring & buffer to slow the bolt travel you can wind up with a broken catch if your gun has a LRBHO feature. That's usually a feature of a dedicated 9mm lower, so odds are your set-up probably doesn't have it. I built mine on a Spikes 9mm receiver set so it does have the LRBHO feature in the lower. I also heard that if you're running a mil spec lower, that you're also supposed to use a spacer at the rear of your buffer tube in order to decrease the overall travel of the bolt. Some dudes even put quarters in there instead of the spacer. You might want to look into that.

@b.a.lineman7582

Жыл бұрын

80% correct… no LRBHO. Likely the 8” barrel helps my setup… quarters are in good place. I neglected to mention some of the details. Just so eager cuz i entered the AR9 world when it was still kinda voodoo… I might try the .308 spring … got one on the shelf I didn’t use on my .308… opted for JP enterprises. Good info.. thanks .

@b.a.lineman7582

Жыл бұрын

Update… installed Witt Machine SME .. muzzle break with shroud… spent casings now land at 1-130😬… bout to dig through the parts bin n get thing back right.

@chewinbubblegum2695

Жыл бұрын

@@b.a.lineman7582 I think the brake might be creating increased back pressure, causing your BCG to reciprocate too fast. That's usually what causes an ejection pattern like that. The cases are rebounding off of the left side of the ejection port & then forward. Try a .308 recoil spring.

Message received. I immediately switched the anti-rotation pins back to the pins supplied by Geissele on their FCG to my AR as soon as I heard what you said.

Let me guess, if Caleb doesn’t have it, you don’t need it?

We need Chad and Caleb to do a series of videos together!

Before I hit play: With correctly made pins and a standard trigger group, one of the hammer spring tails sits in a groove on the trigger pin, preventing it from going anywhere unless you either (A) deliberately apply force to drive it out, or (B) the hammer (and its spring) is removed from the weapon. Meanwhile the "J-spring" inside the hammer clicks into the center groove of the hammer pin, preventing it from going anywhere unless you deliberately apply force to drive it out. While there's almost certainly no actual harm from using anti-walk pins with a standard trigger, it's my opinion that there's also little or no point other than transferring $$ from your pocket into the seller's. With the "drop-in" type triggers, where the springs don't make contact with the pins, there *MAY* be some use for anti-walk/anti-rotation pins. Now let's see how wrong I'm not... Well wuddaya know... Called it, nearly to the letter!

10:43 THANK YOU. That’s our first question and consideration.

Use the proper pins for the task/trigger at hand. Thanks for clearing this up for the masses.

Thanks Steve and Savant

I did't know enough to even know it was a question but now I know more than I did twenty minutes ago and for that Thanks guys.

In a cassette style I kinda get the anti-walk pins because they don’t typically have the built in methods the standard trigger has. Anti-rotation pins have no place in the AR, the pins are designed to rotate, if they don’t they can slow down the speed of the hammer which can be a real issue especially as the hammer doing wears.

Thanks guys!! Great info! Wasn’t a fan of the set screw thing either. You solved my dilemma lol 🍻 from nw Iowa

The only time I have used anti-walk pins was for a KE-15 polymer lower. Based on research, a cassette trigger seemed like a good idea despite my preference for a 2-stage trigger on this type of rifle. Bottom line was I didn’t quite trust the hole alignment or longevity with the polymer. Now that I think of it though, there are millions and millions of polymer pistols with non-captive pins…

i had the pins walk out on a brand new springfield saint victor. couldn't believe it.

I like to just anti rotation on an 80% build where the holes don't have any anodizing to prevent wear. Also I would not recommend those anti walk pins. Idk if they have better ones now that actually bottom out on the pin, but a set I had, thread locker kept it in place and if you over tightened it, it would squeeze the receiver and not allowed the trigger to move

When I first started learning about the AR platform specifically the fire control groups and different types of triggers, it became pretty obvious why the standard triggers use standard pins and why you would use or need Anti Walk &/or Anti Rotation pins for a drop in

I've never had a pin walk out of an AR, but I once saw an M16 runaway.

Like with most things, if it's an issue, address it. If your standard pins aren't walking, then don't worry about it.

Thank you for a common sense, straightforward, honest and truthful analysis.

One of my occasional pastimes is going on the forums to lurk and read the threads-gun lubrication threads in particular. 🤣

Great video explaining milspec pins vs antiwalk/anti rotation, but I didn’t see an explanation of antiwalk vs anti rotation and when to use one vs the other.

Main info I took from this video: 1: Buy the correct quality parts for your firearm. 2: Install as instructed or by included instructions 3: inspect your firearm regularly and check function.🧐

I never really cared about anti-walk pins until I was working on my most recent build. I dropped in an Elftmann match trigger and with both trigger pins that came with it and a PSA small parts kit they would just fall right out when I laid my lower on its side.. needless to say I immediately ordered some anti-walk pins and that fixed my issue.

Dang, haven't watched the video yet but I thought this was a pretty clear cut issue. Use normal pins if you have a standard fire control group that locks into the notches of the pins, use anti-rotation pins if you have a fully contained (drop in) trigger housing that doesn't hold the pins. Maybe there is something else I'm missing?

Great clarification video. Thanks!

I had KNS anti walk pins on my M&P15 Sport since 2013 and I only took them off the other day to replace some things; and I went back to the factory pins because I stripped the little screws for the KNS ones and I just said F it. lol I only originally put the KNS ones on years ago because I thought they were "cool" looking.

Wow. Interesting discussion as usual. I use my AR in high power matches and am really pleased with my standard A2. I believe one can really over think a lot of this stuff.

School of the American Rifle is one of the few shows I can watch for 45 mins ish per video, and want more

Once again, Caleb shows that understanding trumps knowledge. Good job.

I have two cassette type triggers, one in an AR, and the other in a SCAR. They are both Timneys. Both of them have a set screw in the bottom of the cassette that presses down against the bottom of the fire-control pocket. That produces upward pressure against the two pins, locking them in place so that they can’t move sideways.

The issue I had was that one of the factory pins slipped inward and canted my hammer sideways...it wasnt fun...now I dont put one together without them

LaRue Tactical MBT-2S. Excellent 2 stage 2 piece trigger. Always use mil spec pins

I hated the feel of anti-walk pins. My trigger pins were binding and it could be felt in the trigger. I took them out and everything was great again.

You two are a national treasure. Thanks guys. 🙂

If your pins are walking with a mil-spec trigger, your spring’s arms are not in the grooves. Drop-in triggers are a different story.

After many years of AR ownership and shooting I have come to one solid conclussion, ALWAYS use anti rotation pins and ALWAYS use a good quality casset/modular style trigger assembly, I have personnaly been using the Elftman triggers almost from the day they were introduced and they have been absolutely excellent so why change, combined with anti rotation/anti walk pins it makes an excellent minimum/no maintanence setup that just works.

Wilson combat also makes a "cassette" style trigger but you use regular pins because inside the housing it has the same style hammer spring that sits in the milled out Grove in the pin. I have it and it works awesome.