I haven't seen all your videos but the few I have seen are going to help a lot of archers. I don't know if you have mentioned it or not in another video or not but a deep hook draw compared to shooting off the finger tips require a different spine arrow. I shot off the tips of my fingers and could shoot a lesser spine arrow than I could with a deep hook.

Thank you Jeff. I've just caught the archery bug and these videos are absolutely what I needed! We appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience with us.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

👍🏻

Great simple info here for the 40-45lb shooters. I decided on a specific arrow brand some time back (happened to be the Beaman Centershot) and built a test kit of several bare shaft 600's and 500's from 28-30" in 1/4" increments. I considered it an investment in a way. When I get a new bow, I grab my kit and find out which one is best. Quick easy, no cutting, no hassle. If you like to tinker and often buy different bows, having a kit like I mentioned and a kit of points can be very helpful.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely! 👍🏻

@HonestDoubter

8 ай бұрын

And then of course they stopped making the Beman Centershot. Dammit!

As always your videos are excellent! I learned more from you in videos than self teaching for many years!

Crazy thing about this video, is I typically shoot out of my long bow that draws 46 at my 26 inches, 28 1/4 to 28 1/2“ long 2016s with 125 upfront, but I also have some Ted Nugent 500 spine at 28 1/2 inches that I run with standard inserts and 125 upfront that shoot really but I noticed quite a bit more noise and vibration from my bow so for giggles I put in 100 grain brass insert with my 125 FP , and those arrows fly like rockets, and the bow noise and vibration are noticeably less, I appreciate you and this video a lot

I’m so glad I binge watched your tuning videos before purchasing my arrows! I almost ended up going with 400s which would have been too stiff for my setup! Opted for the 500s as recommended. 40# Bodnik Quick Stick drawing 29” Easton Axis Trad 500s cut to 30.75” Running 225gr up front (as recommended for micro diameter arrows with a smaller broadhead) Pretty much spot on and I haven’t even done tuned it yet! You know your stuff Jeff! Thank you!

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Awesome thank you!

Thank you for making these videos, they have been very informative for me while trying to figure out where to start with this traditional bowhunting thing. I especially enjoyed the heavy arrow trajectory and penetration test videos. Will be on the look out for more.

Excellent model for selecting the right spine, Jeff!! Perfect, and made as simple as possible! Love it!!

One thing I will add to this great video is that (at least my experience) is that if you don't first index your arrows (find the stiff side of the arrow) then you will get a lot of conflicting bare shaft results. One arrow will shoot a bullet and the next show stiff (for example). By indexing I can finally get true bare shaft results. My theory is that if you don't index then you have an inconsistent and unknown variable in the mix that will drive you nuts. I have found that on my longbows that having the stiff side up gives me the best and most accurate bare shaft results. Jeff I would like your thoughts on that too.

@aranha9365

Ай бұрын

Indeed, I noticed when flexing my arrows some are stiffer on one side, you are right.

I’m 6’6” 32” draw. Shooting my Cairn 51#@32. This video helped me get to perfect bareshaft flight. 340 carbon legacy cut 33.25 carbon to carbon with 300 on the front. 652gr arrows and they fly like darts! Thank you for your wisdom and the wonderful videos!

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

9 ай бұрын

Man that’s a killer setup!

@MultiJmoney1234

7 ай бұрын

Update: turns out the same setup tunes out of a 64# Wesley special. The addiction runs deep

Awesome!...Man you would make a great southern Baptist preacher!

Hi Jeff! I have just tried full length Arrows( Bamboo), and compared with my shorter Arrows, I have reduced my Gap with 22cm on 18 meters distance, so it works!

Thank you for all of the lessons that you teach us and God bless. Once I found out that Victory had discontinued the carbon trad I bought Easton Legacy arrows. I have a Shakespeare Yukon X24 recurve. It is rated 50 pounds at 28 and I draw it 29.5 inches. My new the Legacy arrows with 75 grain brass inserts, 150 grain heads, and left full length shoot like lasers for me. I shoot instinctive thanks to encouragement from you. I wanted the stiffer spine for two reasons. The driving force that you mentioned as well as the ability to add point weight later and trim the arrows if needed.

This video is explained very well, makes total sense and clearly lays out all the factors in choosing an arrow. That being said, I still have no idea what to get.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

8 ай бұрын

Let me know exactly what you’re drawing as far as pounds and length I’ll try to help 👍🏻

@TangoNevada

8 ай бұрын

@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 Thanks. 26.5" draw, with a 35# Recurve. Any help would be appreciated.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

8 ай бұрын

@@TangoNevada gotcha, most likely a 700 spine is what you need for target with normal fairly light point weight but for hunting I’d go up to a 600 spine and run around 225-250 grains of point weight 👍🏻

Sir u taught this boy somethin good- ENC -columbia n.c

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

6 ай бұрын

Thanks so much!

I had this exact topic plague me this month. Went to the range and the pro set me up with a dozen 500 spine. Cut them and made them and told me they'd be great. He didn't ask my draw. I draw 29.5" on a 44# 48" recurve... so stacking... Haven't measured but I imagine I'm pulling 48-49#. I wasted $220 on 500 spine arrows became I needed 400's just for my 175gr front end (arrows are just over 30"). I was disappointed. I bought some 400's and bareshafted and was hoping to have more weight, but again, arrows too long, and draw.... probably need to get into 300's for my intended tip weight. Pro shop guys thought I was crazy and can't shoot, but I think they play in target shooting all day because they didn't ask critical questions.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

9 ай бұрын

Yeah it’s aggravating for sure, you most likely will wind up with a 340, I’d order a test kit from 3rivers and at least you’ll know 👍🏻

@josephcasanova9346

2 ай бұрын

Bro I found that every single person working in a “pro shop” acts like that. They act like they know everything and if you don’t do what they say you’re stupid. That’s why I started building my own arrows. You should try it man it’s so freaking easy. Do whatever works for you, period.

excellent test and explanation Jeff . Here in the UK we cannot hunt and most of us have to abide by our Archery Club rules for Trad Archery . This means we have to shoot wooden arrows with field points and natural feathers ,so tuning a bow like a 68" 45lb AFB with a 30" draw to shoot 3D at anything from 10yds to 60+ yds is a whole different ballgame lol ...but the principles still apply of course and tuning and building arrows is tons of fun.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Yes sir it is!👍🏻😁

@tbone6203

6 ай бұрын

Yea that advice hepled alot i live back to alota of wyehouser land i hunt alot after work

@tbone6203

6 ай бұрын

Oh yall english cool

I wish i knew this last year. I bought my first recurve after shooting compound for a decade. Its a 40lb Galaxy Ember i have a 29" draw 31" arrows. 225-250 upfront and my archery shop told me i needed 350's at that length. Glad i only bought 3 as im realizing 500's is likely what i should be shooting

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

7 ай бұрын

Exactly, a 500 should be way better for you 👍🏻

@aaronfoell5693

7 ай бұрын

@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 my question with arrow spines is what is the point of spine charts? I looked at Black Eagles Trad spine chart. With 250 grain point weight it says I should be a 350 spine, but I have seen with my eyes that it is way over spined. What is the point of arrow charts if they don't give accurate info?

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

7 ай бұрын

@@aaronfoell5693 exactly and it’s frustrating , I honestly wish they were more accurate for people, I’ve tried to cover this exact subject in the latest New Recurve Setup video.

I am shooting a 26.5" 700 spine Axis 300 gr up front. It will also shoot a 600 with 300 up front. 700 is just butter though. Cant gets a bit tricky if you flirt with slightly stiff. My bow is #45 and is 41 to 42 at my draw.

Your videos are very good.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

I really appreciate that my brother and I really enjoy bringing them!

My setup for everyone…63# at 28” Big Jim Buffalo…my draw is exactly 27.5”…arrow…400 spine 28.5” 300grn up front 5” feathers…total arrow weight is 570grn

Great information!!

That’s crazy, according to black eagle, I would have to shoot a 500 with 44kb bow with 26 inch with 250. Amazing how a 600 flew with that set up.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

7 ай бұрын

Yeah it’s crazy how different every bow is and what it actually likes best!

Great content 👍👍💯

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!!!!!

Great information! Thank you

Thank you Sir!

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

You’re very welcome my friend!

Thank you

This is very good and simple

Thanks for this. Funny I’m right in this 43# area at 26 inch draw with a 48@28 bow. 250 up front with a 26.5 500 spine. Shooting bullets bare shaft. 485 grain total. I’m only 1/2 over at full draw. Should I stick with this or go upto 400 spine? I’m shooting split instinctive and I’ve switched to the Fred Bear anchor you explained in another video. My accuracy is extremely better because of that. Thanks for all your help and advice 👍🏻

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

I’d stay put lol if it’s not broken don’t try to fix it 😆👍🏻 sounds perfect to me!

@billmartin3441

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate the time you put in all of this

Which leaves all of us who draw 30" or more still completely in the dark.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

7 ай бұрын

Yes sir I understand and unfortunately I’m unable to draw that far but as a general rule and of course point weight and actual draw weight determines everything but usually it’ll take at least one spine heavier than the traditional charts recommend and that’s why I highly encourage getting a bare shaft test kit from 3rivers to see what the bow likes best 👍🏻

@LoreFoundry

2 ай бұрын

You draw to 30" what sorta bow do you have and what's its weight? I may be able to steer you in the right direction

@MrHardhead2

2 ай бұрын

@@LoreFoundry I was a bit harsh with my comment. I was new to archery and so I started with a 60" takedown with different weight limbs. Took me a while to dial in the spine with the up front weights and bow weight. Jeff has done the experimenting for us. Each person has to tinker and get the feel for their personal prefferences. Nothing is more frustrating than shooting 400 spine arrows out of a 30# bow. Thank you for offering to help.

I shoots cedar... 250 is iver a 100 grans more than what I run. Be cool if you did something with wood arrows

I’m shooting 500 spine Easton Legacy’s cut to 28 1/2 with 100 grain brass inserts and 125 grain field tips out of my 40 pound @28 black hunter longbow. Probably pulling 38 pounds at my 27 inch draw. I’m getting a bit of nock right. Gonna try another 25 grains up front and see if it will straighten them out. Maybe should have gone with 600 spine

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

You may be okay adding some point weight but if another 59 grains doesn’t do it a 600 spine will for sure 👍🏻

Great👍

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Great content I'm right handed and also blind in my right eye so I had to switch to lefty and I'm struggling I'd like to shoot instinctive do you have any tips thanks keep the videos coming

On the 600 spine with 250 up front it flew really well but when impacting the target it had a lot of wobble, but when you put 275 up front at impact there was almost zero wobble. I can’t help but think that would contribute to better penetration than the 250. Have you ever looked at this aspect when choosing your hunting setups? Do you think that is an effect of bumping up the FOC by 25 grains?

Awesome video as always! Are you at all familiar with the easton sonic 6.0 shafts? I shoot them in my compound and love them. There a 6mm shaft. They are cheap, strong, and lightweight.The lightweight of the arrows allows for very good foc. I am considering shooting them out of my 45lb recurve. What are your thoughts on these shafts for traditional archery?

I’m shooting 53lbs at 28”. I want to use 125-150 tip and probably 100 grain inserts, would 500 be too weak if I cut them down to 29”? More weight up front will help it stiffen up right?? Only reason I ask is because I have a bunch of 500 spine but with 100 grain inserts and they are 30” long. They were for another bow that was 43lbs. Also, What type of target is that you are shooting and where to get one. I like it. Thanks for all the info

@coletroxel5530

10 ай бұрын

More point weight will weaken your spine. You will probably need 400s but you can always play around with one. I shoot 50 lbs at 28 inches with a 400 spine cut to 29 with 225 grains of weight up front.

4:50

Hello! Great channel! I will make this quick, Axis 500 bare shafted best with 200 gn total up front, fletched up some arrows and they shot well with 200 gn field points, but were grouping way left with 200 gn 2 blade grizzly broadheads. Maybe the length of the BH is causing something here? Same weight up front. Right handed shooter, Old Mountain carbon symphony hybrid longbow 46 lb on the fingers. Thanks in advance for any suggestions

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Yes sir you’re exactly right, I used to shoot Grizzly heads and it’s the length that does it, the weight is much more forward of the shaft, they do better on a slightly stiff arrow.

@margelawston1976

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

Just found channel a few days ago. I have been shooting trad for 2 years now. Can my draw length increase after this amount of time from getting my form down. Started out at 28” and I recently started retuning for 3D season after indoor season. I found my 500 spine arrows with 225gr points were extremely weak. I checked draw length and it’s 29 1/4”- 29 1/2”! Went to a 400 spine and they are flying great!

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

4 ай бұрын

Yes exactly! Usually after you reach just a few weeks even the draw length can increase especially with building up strength and using back tension really expanding through your shot👍🏻

@MatthewBrown-sc5sj

4 ай бұрын

@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 thanks! It honestly surprised me. Keep up the great videos! Definitely a regular channel for me now!

What if it's a longbow and cut before center. 45# @28.5

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

5 ай бұрын

Depends on the length of the arrow and point weight of course but generally it would take a slightly weaker spine but with it probably being somewhere around a 30” arrow a 500 should be able to be tuned for that bow by playing with point weight alone 👍🏻

What is the name of the big black foam target you shoot

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

3 ай бұрын

Bow na Fide Targets! They’re available through 3rivers now!

Shooting a Hoyt satori from a flipper rest with 47lb drawn to 28.5” I’m flirting with being to weak shooting a 400 cut to 29 1/4” with 200 out front.

I did ALOT of bareshafting today. 1970 bear 58 amo 40lbs. I’m 27” draw. 39 lb on draw scale. I’ve been shooting 500 instincts cut 30” with 225 total upfront and Stiff. Shot heavier point weight and didn’t like the trajectory. Then shot 500 BE instinct cut 29” 150, 200 and 250 up front and WAY too stiff Ended with 500 BE vintage cut 31” and have about 200 upfront. Fast, good trajectory, and worked to just use my 190 grain simmons. Finally the question.. I moved my knock point every which way and could never stop getting a tail high on impact and sometimes can really tell in flight. Shelf looks great still. I tried 2tabs, glove and split finger. I like 3 under with glove best and it seemed most comfortable. Any suggestions to try and fix?

I plugged your set up into 3RIVERS spine selector, and it is way off. Why is that?

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

4 ай бұрын

Spine selectors are close sometimes and sometimes they’re just not, there are so many variables even down to the bow itself that’s why I highly recommend getting a bare shaft test kit from them and see exactly what tunes for you and your bow with the exact point weight you want to hunt with, even longer (weighted) inserts stiffen spine just like wraps and lighted nocks also each brand of arrow in the same spine can shoot much different out of the same bow, it’s something you just have to figure out through testing and the kit will save you money and frustration for sure plus it’s fun and gives you confidence once you know your setup is right! If I can help let me know, I can get pretty close based on your specs but still recommend the kit 👍🏻

How far are you from the target for this test?

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

18 yards 👍🏻

So I have a 52lb at 29" self bow I made. Would a 500 spine arrow with 250 grains up front be too much?

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

13 күн бұрын

@@jamesblack1204 should be good, self bows of course vary a lot depending on shelf cut but generally yes that’s about the right spine for it👍🏻

@jamesblack1204

13 күн бұрын

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 thanks so much! I have been trying to nock tune, but I'm left handed and am unsure if nock right is weak or strong.

Im gonna be right on the line either 45 or 46 lbs at my draw length can i make a 500 work?Im think a 500 should be fine..im ordering my widow 28 at 43 lbs but i know I'll draw slightly past 28

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

6 ай бұрын

Yeah it should be great no problem!

@Tradman47

6 ай бұрын

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 thank you sir 🙏 God bless

My new 35# Oberon came yesterday and I shoot left handed. I am trying to bare tune arrows today...I bought 500 spine gold tips and cut to 29" for my draw length. All of the arrows are angling to the left. I have tried 125, 200 & 250 grain field points and they still all angle to the left. Since I shoot LH, am I correct to think I should drop down to 600 spine?

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

2 ай бұрын

Yes they’re definitely too stiff for 35# you may even need a 700, mine is 40# and likes 600’s but a 700 will definitely work because they’re cut to center not past and definitely prefer a weaker arrow than what you would think.

@photog20001

2 ай бұрын

@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 Thank you Jeff, I did order some 600's yesterday but I may call 3 Rivers today and see if I can change that order to 700's

Great video once again Jeff! I have always bare shaft tune at 5 or 6 yards. Does it matter how far you are from the target

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Yes, you need to be at least 10-15 yards to give the arrow time to come out of paradox and then it’ll either stay tail left,right or straighten out but it takes a little distance to see what it’s doing for sure 👍🏻

@shane4176

10 ай бұрын

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 ok awesome thanks!

Hello Jeff, I am a lefty but my right eye is dominant. I've tried shooting right handed bows but it really doesn't do it for me. It just feels very off and I can't get used to it at all. However, as my right eye is dominant, aiming over the tip a lot more complicated. I unfortunately cannot close my right eye either. It's not like I am not hitting my target, but it takes an annoying procedure I'd really like to drop. I only see two options here: One would be to simply get used to the right-hand bow, the other one using a eye patch (AHOY!). Both sort of bother me as I really prefer to shoot with as little extras as possible but I also struggle hard with even drawing the righty bow properly. Is there a third option, or do you have any ideas or suggestions? In case it matters, I shoot recurve bows. Thanks a ton for the help, I appreciate it!

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

It’s tough for sure but most guys that have a dominant eye opposition to their shooting just learn to look with both eyes open and focus shooting instinctive No aiming at all unless you can switch to right handed 👍🏻

@wvlfboyy

10 ай бұрын

@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 Do you think I will get more accurate results learning right handed or shooting by instinct? Thank you so much for your reply!

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

@@wvlfboyy man I’d definitely give right handed a try it’s so much easier shooting off the dominant eye 👍🏻

@wvlfboyy

10 ай бұрын

@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 I'll try that next time I shoot, thank you loads for the help!

Do you remember what spine/tip weight you were using with the 45lb sanlida royal x8 recurve?

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

5 ай бұрын

Yes sir mine tuned with a 500 gold tip warrior and 200 grain tip cut 28” really good!

@billyturk8117

5 ай бұрын

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 thank you. Just trying to get a starting point. I just got mine yesterday and all the arrows I have fly pretty bad out of it, lol. I may need a 30" 400. My draw length is 29".

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

5 ай бұрын

@@billyturk8117 yeah you’re probably right 👍🏻

So im going to be in an odd category with my new bow. 43lb @29 I like my arrows cut to about a 1/2 longer for broad head clearance. How much does that extra inch of draw force change things? I've heard its kind of an outlier and not a simple 1 to 1.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

6 ай бұрын

Really it’s about 2.5 pounds and in your category it’s not gonna affect much at all, usually the spine zone is same for every five pounds of draw weight like a 600 is good for 38-43# and a 500 from 44-49# but it’s definitely dependent on other factors like point weight and the energy and shelf cut of the bow itself 👍🏻

Great vid!, I just got my 28" GT Warriors, 600 spine, shooting 260 up front, out my Cairn@45lbs. @ 27" draw, they shoot great,my question is, is that a good set up for deer?

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely it will be for sure!

@timbo749

3 ай бұрын

Hey Jeff, Thanks for all you do , i'm thinking of bumping my point waight up between 290 -340, i realize I'll need to go up to a 500 but should my arrow length stay at 28 " or should it go up to 29?

Hi Jeff, I just bought the black Hunter 40# 60 inch recurve, i’m 53 years old I went with a lighter pound bow so I could shoot with my grandson. It’s Been a long time since I’ve shot a bow, I’m trying this bow out. I just want the arrows to shoot straight with field tips shooting at a target with my grandson, I bought 500 spine 30 inch arrows with 100 grain tips, my draw length is just under 29 inches inches. I’m trying not to cut these arrows, if I watched and understand correctly, I should put heavier tips on these 500 spine 30 inch arrows, correct?

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

7 ай бұрын

They may be fine but adding some point weight will definitely help with flight 👍🏻

Will 40# bow 500gn work on Elk?

Hi Jeff, I appreciate your videos. I'm trying to select the best hunting arrows for my 60# Bear Grizzly. My draw length is 27", typically I run 29" arrows. I plan to increase my point weight using Zwicky Eskimos to 250 gr. At a 27" draw I may be pulling only 55#. What would you suspect would be a good choice in carbon and aluminum arrows? Thanks!

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Yes sir in aluminum a 2117 is a 400 spine and I would think a 2219 would be close to a Carbon 340 spine but on a 29” arrow drawing anything close to 55# and running 250 grains of point weight will most likely call for a 340 and you can always add point weight and be good 👍🏻

@tomvawter4531

10 ай бұрын

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 Thank you brother, I will give it a try!👍

Hi Jeff, great video! Question for you I'm shooting a slick stick R&D 58in long bow 55lb@28 at my drawl length 24.5@ 48 I'm running 500 traditional carbons at 27.5 700gr 30%EFOC 200gr inserts 250gr 3 to 1 Grizzly broadheads keeping shots under 20y. If you were gonna set up this with 500 traditional arrows 3 5in left wing feathers and raps what would you do different? Thanks

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

9 ай бұрын

Man I’ve found that 300 grains up front is more than enough and I’m still getting really good flight with more speed and passing through most everything with a total arrow weight around 500 grains and 300 of that being up front lol they’re awesome! I’m running gold tip warriors 500 spine 7.4gpi 👍🏻

@george2099

9 ай бұрын

Thanks! What about at my short drawl length 24.5 with 45 to 48lb 500 shafts at 27.5 from carbon to throat of the nock do you think 100gr inserts and 250g broadhead would tune??

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

8 ай бұрын

@@george2099 I’m not sure but I know that 300 grains usually will and every bow is different, some shoot harder than others in the same poundage just have to test them and see what the bow likes best!

Hey Jeff, I’m new to traditional archery. I am shooting 3 under and have a 30 inch draw length. Because my drawl length is so long when I am at full draw, the arrow almost starts coming off the string. Am I doing something wrong or is that just because I have such a long drawl length? The nock fitment on my string is pretty tight, so I don’t think it’s because of a loose nock fit.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

Easy fix, just run a double string nock system, using a nock under the arrow will allow you to avoid direct contact with the arrow nock and should work better 👍🏻

@patbrueggeman1430

10 ай бұрын

@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 thank you! I’ll give that a try.

Do you build arrows. I just got a adage orange flat bow and I want to order some arrows.

@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998

10 ай бұрын

I do build custom carbon arrows but only during the spring and summer months gotta spend some time chasing deer in the fall lol