This is such an incredible piece of hardcore history.

"Hey let sam talk"

Not sure how I haven’t heard this but this is great

He ended up apologizing for pushing him.

That ruled

Sounds like Sammy the bull vs Micheal frachizie

FREEDOM OF SPEECH this was our thing WHAT THE FUCK hit by a gas truck listen to some MUDOVEN im sick of it all your going to get 25 to LIFE VON VOLUME its all about the CASH

Wow.

I've always traditionally had more respect for Born Against, but in hindsight( regardless of what one thinks about either band), Sam was in the wrong here. What was the point of this debate? It sounded like criticism from Sam for Sick of It All for being on a major label. I remember that was a no no back then for any punk band. But ultimately whether it's music or anything that someone makes, if they ( the creator) are not compromised in what they do, then they should do it and not be criticized just because it's on a bigger scale( or in this case a major label). Everyone back then used to call it selling out. But it was also ridiculous because most of if not all of those bands never had to change their sound or look or anything. Just ask the friggin Ramones. They did their thing on a major label. Say what you want about him, but people were calling Rollins a sellout back then, yet the guy did his thing and didn't pander to anyone else. Fugazi and Discord should be what all artists ascribe to, but hey if a label or distributor wants to give you a ton of money and financial help, without the artist having to compromise anything, more power to you.

@fuckhead666

3 жыл бұрын

I'm on the same page. I wasn't there for this era so I'm not immersed in the zeitgeist of it, but while I identify more with Born Against's ethics and the NYHC dudes come off as defensive and bro-y in this conversation, they have the right to do what they want with their music. However, since it's ultimately rooted in capitalism it's fundamentally opposed to the ideals of DIY culture. The accessibility argument I think is valid too, most kids won't find MRR before they listen to Green Day.

@OneLickLess

3 жыл бұрын

I came here after reading Sam's book, and he talks a bit about this. For what it's worth, he admits that he was wrong and is generally embarrassed that this debate has been immortalized via the internet.

This is great! 🤣

What happend at the end of this thing anyway? Like did they start fighting each other, because it sounds like they were about to.

@slaythembeforeme

Жыл бұрын

If that happened, we already know SOIA kicked some ass

This is just a debate of artists vs. goofs who want to use their band as a business while trying to hold some harder-core-than-thou authenticity cop badge at the same time Hardcore of that scale is legit just a bad metal scene with worse musicians. They even bring it up later on how it earns them respect and metal tours, etc. If everything is a "common sense" argument with no risk - it's not art. It's just boring consumerism.

Which of these bands are still around? I guess SOIA formula had a bit more longevity!!

Let kids get SOIA at Wal-Mart.

pmrc not mentioned

I like Born Against, but I get the feeling they weren't really listening to the other side. It's funny that they called themselves populist, but I think if you were populist, you'd want your records in as many stores as possible. Whatever, it's a great tape, and I'm sure a few of these guys laugh about it.

The Born Against and Rorschach guys definitely lost this debate

SOIA wiped the floor with BA. Real world common sense vs. idealistic BS.

@cecilthegreat

5 ай бұрын

Stupid ass comment from someone who wasn’t there. Born Against kicks ass. Sick of It All are cool too.

16 minutes in... bored... Rorschach is better than SOIA anyways...

@______638

Жыл бұрын

rorschach !!!

@cargawar

Жыл бұрын

If they were, they'd be playing the thousands SOIA is playing.

@johnnyscifi

Жыл бұрын

I dunno man, I like born against...

@slaythembeforeme

Жыл бұрын

SOIA are legendary. Nobody cares about Rorschach

@wise2dagame190

Жыл бұрын

If playing to thousands is your barometer of success in hardcore that seems flawed, is Knocked Loose the greatest hardcore band then?