Hi guys! I recently did an updated video talking about why I use 4ths tuning - check it out if you haven't done so already for a full breakdown of this fantastic tuning and why I find it so useful for improvised music. One of the players I mentioned in the video also utilising 4ths tuning was the incredible Ant Law - a jazz guitarist from right here in the UK. I thought it'd be cool to sit down with Ant and have a chat about his unique approach to 4ths (Ant tunes differently from anyone else I know, dropping the lowest four strings down a semitone to achieve all 4ths). In this video we talk about Ant's beginnings as a guitarist, why he made the switch from standard tuning and whether you should try it for yourself. I hope you enjoy the video and please check out Ant's amazing work using the links in the video description - he's a remarkable player and a wonderful human being with vast amount of knowledge and skill. All the best everyone and see you in the next one! Tom

@drpastormartinosempa8930

3 жыл бұрын

Please add your Use The Fourths Joke here.... Yoda, manically cackling at you when you try to play ACDC...

@Amatteus

3 жыл бұрын

Tom..could you please tell me which is the Facebook group for all 4th tuning?. Thanks

Yessir Ant and Tom!

I've switched to fourth tuning because of you, Tom, 7-8 years ago (EADGCF tuning to be precise) and, although there definitely are some downsides, I've never regret having done this. Everything is just more logical. Thanks!

Greetings Tom! I finally knuckled down and spent 3.5 hours with this tuning. Holy Moly!! I had an "a ha" moment and I am beginning to "get it". I can still hack my cover tunes but I can almost see the road you took to where you are now from the road I just started. Thank you so very much for having all your 4th's videos online! A real treasure of information! Best Wishes and Best Regards!

I've been tuned in 4ths since 2012 when my guitar teacher turned me on to Your playing Tom. I of course have all of your videos, and have learned a ton from them. Tuning in 4ths has opened up the world of improvisation to me, but there are still huge gaps, mostly when it comes to chording. I just wish there were more 4ths teachers available who could help me continue on my musical journey. These days it seems that the majority of teachers want to teach some version of the caged system, and don't want to be bothered with some guy who insists on playing in a weird tuning. Sometimes we all just need that interaction with a teacher to motivate us, or kick us in the butt.. Cheers guys enjoyed this very much.

I started tuning to fourths after working through Modern Legato Part 1, and I've never gone back! Recently though, I have switched to Eb-Ab-Db-Gb-B-E like Ant, which I have grown to enjoy even more. I'm stoked to see more people interested in this!

Learning 4ths tuning broke me out of pattern based playing that I had become trapped in over the years. I find it so much better for understanding harmony. I mostly play in standard now but I still think of theory in terms of 4th tuning with a shift in the upper two strings. I naturally converged on the Eb variant too after breaking a few too many E strings on the way to F.

@Murphmonster69

2 жыл бұрын

ironic because i think of 4ths as being the pattern tuning.

@holyronin

2 жыл бұрын

@@Murphmonster69 You're right. The power of 4ths tuning is a sort of pattern based way of playing due to the way it makes the patterns of scales and chords uniform and easily recognisable. I suppose what I meant by pattern based playing was playing only based on scale and chord shapes without any understanding the relationship between the pattern and the underlying notes. Playing that way was making the theory appear much more complex than it really was making me believe that memorising the shapes was as good as I was going to get in terms of understanding it all.

@gregpeterson3144

Жыл бұрын

My first tuning was Fourths, and I am trying to move to Standard, but I hate the idea to constantly shift the top strings in my mind :( My current approach is to learn a whole 6 string maj/min arpeggios with their intervals. I don't really like it, but hey - thousands of great musicians were able to express themselves with that tuning so...

Guys - You name checked the all the blokes but you have missed out Dierdre Cartwright who has been playing in fourths tuning since the mid 80s. Another amazing jazz player.

This is a meager (layman's) attempt to solve the problem of using the 4ths tuning and doing cover material as a guitarist. I have taken a standard 6th string capo and cut it down (using a metal saw) to fit only the 4 lower strings. Tune the guitar as Ant Law (Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, B, E), and put the modified capo on the first four strings (Eb, Ab, Db, Gb) on the first fret. Now the open strings are in the normal standard tuning. This enables me to play "On the back of Angles" and "Pull me under", by Dream Theater (one of my favorite bands, which I cannot pretend to be able to play), and still be able to comprehend/interpret what I am playing due to the 4ths tuning. The idea came from watching a video of Alex Hutchings showing his guitar with an extra (zero) fret, but not able to get hold of such a guitar in Sweden. The feeling is like tuning a half step down like Ant Law but with the standard tuning on the lower strings and the symmetry of 4ths tuning for regular playing. I do not think that anyone here will find this interesting as most of you guys are playing over changes in a jazz context, but it has helped me significantly to interpret the fret-board as a fan of djent and progressive metal, and to get a feel for the interval choices other musicians make when soloing or simply making catching melodies. This solution does not make the barre accords, especially the minor barre (just play the minor seventh), any easier, but it helps with the delicious dissonances that the standard tuning yields/enables. Just listen to the jam between Nick Jennison (kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZJ2NybVsj8a1pMY.html) and Tom Quayle and be inspired! Both Nick and Tom delivers fantastic, out of this world, blues experience which I want to be able to play, and also be able to understand what I am playing. This is the strength of 4th tuning. I do not expect Tom Quayle, whom I admire and I have bought several of his amazing tutorials, to be able to reply to this, but I post it anyway so that someone more talented than me might find this and understand the gist of it and make the beautiful music that the standard tuning has to offer (i.e., using the open strings and the Lydian perspective of Opeth) for me to enjoy. If someone wants a photo of my setup/capo (only a Fender Stratocaster I am afraid) just reply to this message. Best regards and happy interval hunting!

@mckaylahephzibah8045

2 жыл бұрын

I absolutely want a photo. Thanks for sharing

@georgefenning4844

Жыл бұрын

Yes lease. Very interesting. Thanks

@arthence

Жыл бұрын

This is crazy dude

@AntLawGuitar

7 ай бұрын

there’s also a “spider capo” which just does the strings you choose, so not necessarily any need to chop your capos up people! 😆🪚

I'm just a guy who likes to play guitar at home for fun. Problem is I listen to wide variety of music. So naturally I have multiple guitars ranging from standard, half step down, open C and even tempting this fourths tuning. Hearing you both speak about staying with single tuning and having trouble going back makes sense. I know I always have to do a reset when I pick a different guitar. And to be fair I'm not the strongest at knowing the fretboard in any of the tunings I play in. But then again playing in four different tunings may be why I haven't mastered any of them

I've considered a number of different tunings to help get around the hitch in Standard Tuning. 4ths Tuning is certainly easier on the brain due to its logical intervals, but there is a lot of repertoire that becomes inaccessible. Tuning down the 3rd string a 1/2 step (like a Lute) is a nice tuning, and it makes the bottom 3 strings have the same intervals as the top 3 string. But, some extended chords, like 7ths, 9ths, etc. require more complex and awkward fingerings. What I've found helpful in Standard Tuning, is to find the various string interval symmetries, so shapes and fingerings can be easily moved around. Some handy symmetries occur between strings 431 and 542; 531 and 642; 65 and 43 and 21; 54 and 21; 654 and 543; 64 and 53; 42 and 31. Knowing these can make shifting octaves, and other intervals a lot easier.

'I'm not doing the standard one, what a nightmare' lol. exactly my thoughts. Been combing through the internet to see if they are people who think as oddly as I did lol. I am glad it is not a lonesome path.

I am pretty sure even hobby players have more than 1 guitar. I have a Dobro tuned to GBD, GBD and a ukulele tuned to “my dog has fleas”. I tuned my 7 string acoustic to 4ths to better see the C Major scale on all open strings. I decided to leave it that way because it definitely helps me understand standard tuning and it is more fun to play, especially when noodling! Thanks for posting

I am frustrated with both tunings tbh... I guess there is no full happiness. The Fourths gives you clarity about the intervals, triads on the entire fretboard, you can also move licks much easier. The Standard has a Major triad as a barre on the DGB strings, and leaves three fingers for embellishments etc. Same for the Minor triad on GBE... Also in general, has nicer bigger sounding Major/Minor chords. I believe Fourths is great for jazz/fusion and metal shredding :) but for anything else could be actually limiting.

The first guitarist I ever saw doing this was the great Stanley Jordan back in the 80s!!!!

I've played blues most of my life and have only just found out I tune in all 4ths. I don't read music. Don't even really understand what the letters mean. It's been fascinating finding out my tuning has a name and so many phenomenal jazz guitarists use it. I love the strange world of guitars.

@lanehewitt7685

6 ай бұрын

By the way, it's interesting to see how many people feel standard tuning limiting and are changing to fourths because I'm the same but in reverse. I have however found it impossible to play standard tuning. Such a pain in the arse. I get the feeling going from standard to fourths may be easier and would be interested in what people think.

Great chat. Thanks Tom

I'm very interested in possibly going to fourths tuning. Thanks for this!

More of this please... I think your great in doing interviews as well Tom... But I'm really torn or scared about using 4ths... Hehehe... Kudos!..

Here's an idea: if you are torn between Fourths tuning and Standard tuning, try Lute tuning. It puts the major 3rd interval between the 3rd and 4th strings ie. EADF#BE. What is interesting with this tuning is that it has a symmetry that standard tuning doesn't have. Effectively, you can see the guitar as 2 x 3 string guitars, tuned in Fourths, if that makes sense. Given that you can play an octave on 3 strings, it makes sense to divide it this way. For example, an octave from the 3rd string F#, completes at fret 2 on the ist string. There is an octave below, starting on the 2nd fret F# of string 6, completing on the 4th fret of the D string. The alignment of E to E still exists and so barre chords are still there. The E chord becomes an A shape; the A chord becomes a D shape and there are E shapes for an open B chord and D chord (but moved up a fret).

@sirpatrickofgoober6603

3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting! Thank you.

@escarabajo_o

3 жыл бұрын

Brilliant idea! I'm going to try it right now...

@escarabajo_o

3 жыл бұрын

Turns out that standard chord shapes move one string above

@imagesandwords4327

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting possibility. Are you aware of anyone who's done the hard work in mapping out the chord and scale shapes for this tuning and prepared a free downloadable document? Thanks

@gregpeterson3144

Жыл бұрын

@@imagesandwords4327 I use a mobile app that allows custom tunings - Guitar Scales and Patterns (by Vladimir), and it shows patterns for scales for any tuning. But in this case - I didn't like the barre chords at all. I'd rather use P4 or Standard...

I tune in major thirds. Now, I’m certainly complete hacker but I’ve feel found ways to simplify the barre chords, for instance, to play their essence, which I’m sure is what is done in fourths as well.

@procarpenter1788

Жыл бұрын

How do you find that to play “normal” stuff? Are there any good resources to learn this?

@krisnunney8030

Жыл бұрын

@@procarpenter1788 here’s the KZread clip I mentioned before m.kzread.info/dash/bejne/goeH1KSqqMmdfqQ.html

I am Super happy that i found your Channel! Just awesome content - thank you very much

I tried 4ths but I still prefer standard tuning, however, I think I need to explore it more.

Wonderful discussion as expected, chaps!

@AntLawGuitar

3 жыл бұрын

nice one brother John 👊

Im 49, getting into guitar, i already have a ton of music theory from years back, but i find 4ths lets me get started so much faster, im simply learning all the locations of the A and using the simple patterns of 4ths, after i master the As, ill do the Cs then Es. This will build a chord for me and ill simply continue this way. Not sure if im missing anything.

Is there a link to the sample vid of Ant soloing at the beginning? That is an incredible clip.

@AntLawGuitar

3 жыл бұрын

thanks dude, it’s Aquilinus and it’s on my channel 👍

Amazing video. I´m play for about 25 years and ten years ago I was in love with bass and not in love with guitar util that. When I first play a C string in a 6 strings bass I love it. And now I made a ¨strings bass with EADGCF and decided to change one of my guitars to play and waiting for it to come.... Oh my God ....... amazing !!! I changed and not want to return to standard tunning and in fact I play solo guitar gigs for about ten years and have more than 100 chord melodys tune in hand... but actually I decided to lose that chord melodys and create a new ones and to me guitar have a new atractive and new way to understand in a much more confortably and smart way. In fact chord melody sound diferent but to me sounds more refresh and I have a brazilian way to play chord melodys and now rthey sound nem and sound diferent.. I loving it and will be a must play bass and guitar in same tunning...

@zvonimirtosic6171

Жыл бұрын

That's exactly right. If we know the melody, as one can whistle it, then we can play it in any key, and reharmonise by using different chords and ideas. Any piece can sound refreshing, and new. The tuning based on regular intervals makes more sense music-wise. It opens up new possibilities. The music playing on the guitar can be learned by more people, and all new types of music can be composed and recorded.

Love a bit of Trio HLK 👌

This was so informative. Thank you

Yet another great video! I gotta check out this tuning! Thanks!

The biggest issue for me is that I don't have enough guitars. I was planning on buying a new one from Kiesel this time and I've thought about asking them to tune it in 4ths before it's delivered. However, my fear is that I'd not use it enough and just stick with my Schecter because of all of the available music lessons, tab, etc that I can learn in Standard Tuning. Since there is a floating bridge on all of my guitars, as I understand it, I can't simply change the tuning easily. I'd have to pay the $50-$60 to setup my guitar for the new tuning, and pay it again to put it back. Buying a guitar that doesn't have a floating bridge would probably be the only way to easily change tuning from Standard to 4ths.

Bruh! Been waiting for this!!

This sounds really fascinating... wonder if it would make RnB/Gospel stuff much easier

@RobbenBanks153

2 жыл бұрын

Probably not, unless you want to try some different chords voicings to what a lot of players in that style use

May the fourth be with you?

Ant Law..terrifying guitarist..

4ths rule. Almost !!!

is that Bloodborne shirt?!

LOGIC

Stanley Jordan has used them for decades too

Bloodborne shirt!!

Great with more about 4ths tuning here. I have seem poor reviews of Ant's book, so I am curious to know what you find good about it. Thanks.

@shitmandood

2 жыл бұрын

I just got it a few days ago and I read it in one sitting. It's not a very large book. What really boggled my mind was that the book covers the tuning used by Tom Quayle/Stanley Jordan, which is tuning up the high strings to C and F. I bought it, thinking I was going to get a treatment on the Eb Ab Db Gb B E half-step down-tuning variety, but it's not there. It's not anywhere! I suspect Ant wanted to pave his own way for creative expression and it was done after this book was published (we need an update!). The plus or minus of it, depending on how you look at it, is that you're going to need a lot of blank chord and scale chart pages in order to sus out all of the details of the different chord/scale shapes for the Eb tuning. I mean, I can look at shapes given in Ant's book, but you have to translate all of the shapes down a half-step and then remember the name/key, which is extra processing you don't really want to have to do all the time. It might be easier, though cumbersome, to just write them all out on those blank chord/scale charts, perhaps in multiple keys so you'll have your P4 Eb library. The poor reviews might be just some of the things that are mentioned that aren't there. There was a statement about including some blank charts, but they're not there. The book is a POD, and you know how shitty the quality of PODs are: edges of the whole thing are bending up or down for a brand new, book without ever going through the wear and tore of traditional books...The soft-covers just aren't heavy enough in PODs I guess. Also, there could have been more content and I for one, would've loved to have seen a translation of a chord melody jazz tune converted from standard to fourths in guitar tab, but it's all left as an exercise for the reader. You're pretty much on your own! lol.

@shitmandood

2 жыл бұрын

Quick Update: I've found that Guitar Pro 7 will adjust to any tuning and all of the scales and chords will reflect it on its charts. Also, Tom Quayle's wonderful app will help with knowing the intervals, since every interval distance is now exactly the same everywhere. So using that app will basically having you figure out every interval over the entire neck. Finally, I setup my Jamstik with Eb Fourths tuning and am pretty amazed with how not having to translate that major 3rd change from G to B...not having to do that appears to be changing everything. I wasn't able to see it without first tuning it and getting my hands around it though. Truly amazing stuff!! I've been trying my standard tuning jazz guitar chords just to see what they sound like. There's also some tough ones I'll have to learn, if I want to use them later (seems to have some where you have to stretch the pinky...).

>So you do this tuning completely unique to you where you tune the guitar down a half step... lol, sitting here with an 8 string downtuned a half step so I don't snap my high e looking for other people using 4ths tuning. Made no sense to have the major third jump when I am going to be playing zero open chords on this monster.

@AntLawGuitar

7 ай бұрын

snap! Are you low F up to high E? That’s what my 8-string is tuned to…

@Razsteroid

7 ай бұрын

@@AntLawGuitar Mmhm, I still use standard on a 6 but its nice to have the shapes of triads and whatnot be consistent on the 8, especially when using both hands on the fretboard.

@AntLawGuitar

7 ай бұрын

@@Razsteroid cool! Would love to hear some tapping - will you post a link here?

So if you want to improvise over a chord sequence tuning in 4ths is best ?

Have you tried major thirds tuning?

the GOAT Frank Gambale plays standard

@gregpeterson3144

Жыл бұрын

he actually uses ADGCEA

What is the name of the tune in the intro? can't find it

Hey Tom ! I'm the 1st... Love from India..❤️

Keeping it fresh is what matters. For the pianistic approach........play the piano when fed up with a mere 6 strings.

Another physics grad who plays in 4ths... yeah!

@shitmandood

3 жыл бұрын

But did he graduate? Writing Giant Steps as the answer on a final exam makes it sound like a passing grade was not coming.

@AntLawGuitar

3 жыл бұрын

For the record I did graduate, yes 👨‍🎓

@krownofficial6246

7 ай бұрын

​@@AntLawGuitarhey ant, I'm gonna try your tuning. I have an 8 string what would your tuning be if you played your current tuning but with an 8 ,sorry I just want to be super accurate

@AntLawGuitar

6 ай бұрын

@@krownofficial6246 F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E 🤙

@jbjb9691

5 ай бұрын

Same here. PhD in biophysics, now two years into seriously learning guitar &bass, I’m switching to 4th for my guitar 😅

Before I watch the video, let me say, "NO WAY!!" Hahaha

Although humans ears are intuitive, Standard tuning is not intuitive. Learning-wise, it has no logical sense, so players learn by copying hand positions, rather that understanding. Standard tuning created music genres that are exact copies of the previous genres, only with added special effects. Turn off distortion in heavy metal, and you get same pentatonic dribble as in 1960s rock and surf, which again, copied ideas from earlier blues and simple folk music. Literally, 100+ years of popular "guitar music" is based on the repetition of the same old recipes. Only jazz and fusion bravely moved away, because they needed new scales and .. voila! .. regular tunings like P4 make more sense there! I wonder why .. 🙄

Standard tuning is nonsense.

I think i prefer tuned down 4ths as i do love bending strings.

you mean 4ths all the way across right? as apposed to moving back the half step back at the B string? dunno bout you but my standard tuning guitar IS tuned in 4ths E to A is 4th, A to D is 4th, D to G is 4th, g to B is 3rd, B to E 4th .. there is one third obviously... the G to B is off cuz there is nothing between B and C so how would it work to E again? if you continue on 4ths D to E would be a 1st? right cuz the B would be a D then the next 4th is a G? so it would be E A D G B G 'every adult dog growls barks and growls'? huh that would sound stupid . . . lol fact is there is no way to tune 6 strings and miss either the B/C or E/F barrier.. 4 strings yes.. somewhere there has to be a shift to avoid redundancy and keep octaves and majors alive.. in a circle the E's are right next to each other, but on a 6 string guitar 4 strings are actually between them, piano for instance is layed out differently so . . best way IMHO .. plus if you didn't tune standard you wouldn't have all those sweet blues rock cliches and licks, blues and rock just wouldn't be the same .. tune to an open chord I guess? play some fast rock leads that way, so dull .. lol have a guitar for each tuning, solved!