I have always stretched and folded with the one hand method in the bowl. Tried an experiment and put the dough on the board with a bit of flour and used the method of coil fold. Got a much better final loaf--better rise, more even crumb distribution. It was easier doing it in the bowl but I am going to use this method going forward. Thanks for all your videos. You are my sourdough guru.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

The one handed is just the easiest. The bowl stays down :)

@Chemeleon15

4 жыл бұрын

Phillip Ziegler If you oil/wet your hands and the work surface, you can do the coil fold without extra flour. It’s much easier because you just let the weight of the dough do the stretching before you fold it over on itself, and you don’t really have to worry about it tearing because it stuck to something.

Thank you for your video! I was really struggling with shaping and your non-sped-up video of you shaping the dough really help me hone in on my technique.

I guess the coil folding method sums up to double the folds of s&f: each quarter turn you do two folds, the upper and the lower, so 8 in total. With s&f, one fold per quarter turn. You could try two turns with s&f, to get the same total folds, and see if you get comparable results in the end

@thatmoody

4 жыл бұрын

That's a good idea - I was thinking it had to do with the sum total of the folds as much as the pressure and stretch.

@sagnikdas5243

Жыл бұрын

You were bang on. He was folding it 2x more than the others

Hi Sune. I think a good experiment to be added to your list would be bake loafs in different types of pan, let's say, glass, metal, and stone.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Are you thinking bread pans or "steam capturing vessels" like a dutch oven, pyrex dish? :)

@guilhermeguioco8098

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, like a Dutch oven. Another material might be silicon, but I do not think there is a silicon Dutch oven or Pyrex. I just know silicon pan

@thatmoody

4 жыл бұрын

@@guilhermeguioco8098 One of my friends has a fancy steam oven and I make her crazy with my cast iron dutch oven because my bread looks better.

@esalenchik

4 жыл бұрын

Guilherme Guioco This was a great suggestion, and made for a really interesting video 😁

@Caroline-ei2nb

2 жыл бұрын

Clay cooker too!

Thanks! This was super helpful. I made a no-kneed bread for the first time due to a combination of boredom and necessity during this coronavirus lock-down, and it was unpleasant, like dense cake. This stretch and fold trick really made a huge difference in the quality of my bread.

You have a great approach to test one variable at a time. Thank you so much. I am new to your channel but I will be going back and viewing all of your content on bread making.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you ❤️

Me too, can't get enough of your experimentation. Thanks for doing this!!

Sune, I really enjoy your voice and the pace you speak at. Combine that with breadmaking, and it’s seriously therapeutic! Will try the coil fold method, thanks!

I love your channel, man, I've just discovered it, and you really do what I need to see, I don't have so much time to "fail" succesfully. Really appreciate your work. Already suscribed. (And you mention my favourite sourdough bakers on Full Proof and Joshua :P )

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) I am just curious by nature, and I feel there's a lot of "we've always done it this way" in sourdough baking (and generally most things), so I just wanna see if it's true or not :)

I think I might know the answer to why the coil fold produced better structure. With this technique, you keep the tight surface upwards, which then stays intact and and only gets tighter after more folds. With the other techniques, the tight surface is on the bottom and is stuck to the vessel, which means you have to disturb it more to fold it, hence losing that tension that is so sought after. Just my theory though.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Not a bad theory. Also when I handle the coil folded dough I make sure to have that upwards surface as the outside of the dough all the time. Also when moving to another container for bulk for example :)

@elsaescobar9385

4 жыл бұрын

I have made my last batch of sd two days ago using a combination of two of those techniques, both hands S & F and Coil. The result was awesome. The best bread I ever made

@GinaG56883

4 жыл бұрын

This could be! I personally do S&F, but I always invert the dough right side up to keep that closure sealed. I think you're onto something.

@NEMO-NEMO

4 жыл бұрын

Foodgeek I’ve used the coil method outside of the container and I’ve moistened the table so the dough does not stick.

@re-de

4 жыл бұрын

I knead the dough with the french technique (slap and fold) and this time j added a couple of coil and fold during bulk fermentation and it worked so well! I had such great oven spring

After having tried many different recipes and techniques I ended up simply mixing everything together, waiting for an hour, agitate it a little (technique doesn't seem to matter for me), wait another hour and (pre-) shape it. almost no work and I still get a beautiful loaf.

I go one step lazier. After I’ve mixed the dough for autolyse, I measure out the starter and dump on top. Then after autolyse I simply mix and do the kneading/stretch and folds. All the measuring is done at the beginning.

It finally came to me. I’ve watched several of your videos. I just realized while watching this video that you sound exactly like John Malkovich! Love your videos. I’ve learned quite a bit. Thank you.

I love watching you shape the bread, hypnotizing

You forgot one type of kneading in your comparison, kneading itself! It would be great if you could do a comparison stretch and fold vs 10-15min hand-kneading after autolyse vs maybe doing both?

@barefootwildflowers3209

3 жыл бұрын

I'm a kneader...I just prefer to work with the dough by hand. It is soothing to me. And I have other stuff to do than keep going back and working the dough.

@Tara-id3rk

3 жыл бұрын

This was the comparison I was looking for

@nu5045

3 жыл бұрын

The hydration of this kind of dough too high for regular hand kneading

@DANVIIL

3 жыл бұрын

@@nu5045 You can use a slap and fold kneading technique with an 80% hydration. Richard Bertinet has a good video on it.

Great experiment. Small light bowl did make it difficult, especially on the coil & fold. Too bad you could not rest the "lazy" one - even in a regular bowl lined with a tea towel (that is what I do because I don,t have Bennetton). Well done, thanks so much for doing this!

Awesome experimental video. I REALLY want some of those square containers. Where can I find them?

@GFauxPas

3 жыл бұрын

They're not on his list of equipment and I can't figure out what to search for on Amazon :(

I usually do both, one-handed stretch and fold, and the coil fold method it seems to have a better crumb

i do a 1 arm roll. stretch on arm, then roll it up. Fold in half stretch and roll up again. i do the 30 min thing. I got a round bowl. I don't check the window pain or how thin it can get. no bread board. no extra water or flour. Then put in fridge 12 hours and then rise 6 hours and bake. Something happened cuz I never used the fridge before or did a stretch and roll up either. it was just the one handed fold and 1/4 turn. Well the results were great for one loaf. My dough was no where near your hydrated state. It held together in a nice soft ball. The loaf or round was 7.25" tall and 10" around baked. Nice crumb. no big holes. I don't like the honey running thru. I think it was the stretch fold and fried that did it. All I had was bread flour, water, salt and a handful of 10 grain.

wow!! thanks for this enlighting video. I tried the lazy man and the one hand stretch and fold. Good i found your video to save time!! I love your channel

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you ❤️

Fantastic. Love your shaping technique with the scraper, not needing more flour. Awesome.

Does anyone here feel like being tied to a chair and listen to this guy's despair after you ruined a batch of dough? I am really feeling a Christoph Waltz vibe here.

Thanks. YES, I learned a lot. I do not like round loaves. We use bread that need a square shape. Do you ever make a Sourdough Bread in a Bread Tin. I have Antiques Baking Tins and we like our bread made into these tins. Neat video. Thanks Aria

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Have you tried with a batard? It's less round than a boule :) Otherwise I usually don't bake using a tin unless I use very high hydration or things like Hokkaido Milk Bread or Brioche. You can use a tin for any hydration dough though. It's always an option. If you'd like a soft crust you can use a pullman loaf with the lid on while you bake. This one: fdgk.net/buy-small-pullman-loaf-pan I hope that helps :)

This was really great. Loved to watch how you handle shaping the dough. Am trying my first coil right now - cheers!

Interesting, so many variables.

Hi Sune! Great experiment as always! I'd love to see an experiment where you'd test if lamination improves the strength of the dough and helps to get a better oven spring and open crum. Thanks again for all the great videos!

I use a strainer lined up with a tea towel for extra bannetons.

@Bison162

4 жыл бұрын

I used a pillowcase (because all my kitchen towels are terrycloth) and...not great results. The cloth got too wet and the dough stuck.

@rnptenafly

4 жыл бұрын

Michael Robison rice flour

love the music with sour dough wisdom, beautiful combo!

New to your channel and absolutely love the way you experiment! Learnt a lot from your experimentations. You usually hold the finished products up, showing us the results one by one. I'd like to suggest that you have a shot at where you can the the variants side by side as a one view comparison. Keep up the great work!

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you

For baking without a banneton at home, I use parchment on a plate, then placed inside a freezer bag that has been ballooned/inflated to create a tent. This becomes it's proofing chamber.

Hi Sune, I have been following all your videos for a while and I am very happy to use you bread calculator. I have downloaded a 72 hour recipe and have baked it now for the second time. Because I felt at the first time there wan't enough water in there. After checking with your calculator I found out it only was 43% hydration. This bread is made up 2x small quantity of flour and water and 1/2 gram dry yeast over 48 hours, then added to that is a loaf quantity of Flour water and another gram of yeast. Left overnight, formed to a ball and rested again for a couple of hours, before baking. I was happy with the result. Here my question would the bread improve if I did some stretch and fold within those 72 hours? Because at the end I just got the dough out of the bowl shaped it to a ball!

Hi Sune, do you ever use lamination? It seems to help have very even holes and lovely soft crumb. I do a combination of stretch and fold , lamination and coil folds. I am sure that it doesn’t really make a difference, more for my own entertainment.

@GFauxPas

3 жыл бұрын

He uses lamination in a new video, as a way to even distribute seeds: kzread.info/dash/bejne/jGuisaiOqsWWn6g.html&ab_channel=Foodgeek

Very informative thank you! I know you get a lot of suggestions but I wondered what affect the rubaud kneading method has and also lamination, here's hoping you wonder too 😁🤞

I love this guy's delivery

Thanks for this but surely the fact that you kept them proofing before baking for different periods made a difference. I'd be interested to know the order you baked foodgeek, stretch and fold and coil fold in. If the dough was proofing while you were baking the first three then perhaps the last automatically has bigger bubbles.?

If you baked them one at a time, they all would have had different fermentation times, and that could explain the differences in crumb. Did you bake the coil folded loaf last?

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

They were stored in my fridge that's 2C/35.5 f. The bread doesn't rise after they are cold and they went in to together 😊

@haipeies

4 жыл бұрын

13:13 '' I have baked them one by one..''

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

@@haipeies They went in the fridge together. Not the oven :)

Thanks. I love watching your videos.

Thanks. This gives me hope that as a new baker, I don’t have to get the folds perfect to have good bread. Making any kind of effort will probably be better than nothing...

Great video but I was hoping for one of them to be machine mixed or a bench kneed after autolyse to see if an initial kneading helps. Thanks for all the great experiments!

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

You don't need to handknead to get good gluten development 😊

What's your experience with slap-and-fold vs. stretch and fold? I tend to use slap-and-fold but that gives less bulk fermentation time, which I assume have some impact. Struggling a bit with finding the time to use stretch and fold :-)

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Only really did slap and fold a couple of times. It's usually use when hydration is do high that you can't do the other methods :) It's fun to do though :D

@gladyslim8389

2 жыл бұрын

J

Very informative post. Thank you.

You are the best among the best! Thanks for everything you teach

Amazing video, thank you, I will try the one hand stretch and fold !

Total noob here. As opposed to using the scraper to pre-shape, could you just use your hands and kind of toss back and forth to shape into a ball?

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

If the hydration isn't so high that it sticks to your hands, you can pull it over the table with your hands behind the dough pushing it over the counter :)

Thank you for doing this experiment Sune 🧑‍🍳🕵🏻 .. I really enjoyed your vid. & I love to learn a lot more from you!! I always work like you teach me, I will follow you !!😃

A minor correction (I can't resist as I am a retired chemist!); 20 degrees Celsius is 68 degrees Fahrenheit (not 82 as you mentioned in the video). Great video's!!!! Since you are a geek let me share with you a Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion you can do in your head. Lets use 20C as an example. Three steps. 1. Multiply your Celsius temperature by 2 (20 *2) = 40 2. Subtract 10% of the answer in #1 above from your answer in #1 above; (40 *(10/100)) = 4; so 40-4 = 36 3. Add 32; 36 + 32 = 68F Your answer This process is exact and not an approximation. Try converting 25C to F........ answer is 77 Trick question; convert -40C to Fahrenheit (if you get this correct you will see why I drove my students crazy)! I love what you do and the experimental approach you take! Donald Philbin

@MathasiaJ

4 жыл бұрын

-40°C would come out to -56°F, correct?

So very helpful! You are awesome for doing this, Sune, thanks very much for sharing your experiments :)

Yes I Learned something ! Cool Fold is my friend ! Also Bench kneeding !

I used to do the traditional two handed stretch and fold, but since watching you, I now do the Sune one handed stretch and fold. I find your way easier, quicker, less messy and it produces a very nice loaf. Cheers

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ross 😁

Excellent video!

Just tried a modified "lazy man". I did 1 stretch and folds when moving from the mixing bowl to a bulk container. The loaf came out like my other loaves, but saved me some work. savem me getting slime on my hands too. I always hated that about stretch and fold. I get slime hands, then do I wash my hands, or just sit here with slime hands for 30 min till the next set of stretch and folds? Now I don't care and its nice. only get slime hands 1 time. well, 2 times counting when I shape it and put it in the banneton. Still its a lot less hassle, i will never do the stretch and folds again

Why do doughs collapse? Thank you for all your videos.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Usually when they are over proofed and there isn't enough food left for the yeast :)

@humblerepentpraygive5815

4 жыл бұрын

@@Foodgeek Got ya. I keep trying. I have 5 new starters. Going to try one today! Keeping fingers crossed.

@gyun8126

4 жыл бұрын

Foodgeek thank you so much for the answer as I kept having flat bread lately n been scratching my head!! So glad I chanced upon your video n yes, I hv just subscribed to your channel!

What’s not to like! Ignore those thumbs down! Keep up the good work

For some reason I could not open the What Happens If You use Olive Oil in your Sourdough Bread. Thought perhaps you would like to know...I tried 2 times today. Thanks

I've been wondering what a sourdough that is mixed once and then let to sit untouched through bulk fermentation and into the oven would be

@notesfromleisa-land

2 жыл бұрын

He did a vid on that!

You are so great! Keep up the great work Sune! Thank you for doing all the hard yards for us, so that we don't have to.

3:58 Coil fold.

Can i use bleached bread flour (not for starter)? Or a 50/50 combo or bleached and unbleached?

@Foodgeek

2 жыл бұрын

We don't have bleached bread flour where I live, so I don't know for certain, but I think you could probably use 100% if you wanted :)

Some ideas for future bread science experiments: How to store sourdough loaves to keep them fresh longer (without molding nor getting hard/dried out) and best bread knives.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I'll add them to my list ❤️

@iaracalegari3480

4 жыл бұрын

You can slice it and freeze.. That is what I do to my loafs 🤗

@iaracalegari3480

4 жыл бұрын

And when I want to eat, I put on the oven for 10-15 minutes..

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

I do that almost every bake 😊 I thaw it in my toaster. Just a slice at a time 😊

@debbiedavis943

4 жыл бұрын

wow, is that really a problem you need to solve? My bread is usually gone in a day or two in this household!

Great video! What about slap and fold technique?

Sune, Thank you. That was really helpful!

Interesting results. I wonder if coil fold truly was better, or if it was a fluke. Thanks for making the video!

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Well, for it to be statistically significant test I'd have to repeat it quite a few times. Which I'd love to, if I had enough time for that :) I feel this experiment shows that kneading has a negligible effect on the final crumb though. Gluten development and shaping is much more important. I'll think about how I can test that. It would be interesting to see what different stages of gluten development would affect the final bread. Although the result is probably given beforehand :)

Hey at 11:40 you said the dough is pretty much collapsed? I would like to know what was the difference compared to the other ones right after? They all looked the same right after? What did you mean by collapsed? What’s a good indication of it being “collapsed”?

kneading vs using a stand mixer?

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

It's a good idea. I've never used a stand mixer to mix my sourdough bread :)

@dannywimpey2487

4 жыл бұрын

@@Foodgeek I use my Kenwood just to mix the autolyse. It works great

Thanks for the experiment. I am curious as to what the results would look like with a larger sample size.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

I'd love to have the time and equipment for that kind of large scale testing 😊 I know the sample sizes I have for my tests does not make them statistically significant, but I still believe that they bring value 😁

Truly brilliant, thank you! Alrways wondered

thanks for the video! saved me tons of experimentation

I have learned so much from your videos. Thank you!

Question - how would all of these have performed after an overnight rest in the fridge? (Suggestion - spray your scraper with water.)

At the 7:05 mark when you start inspecting the dough using the window pane technique for gluten structure I’m curious what would cause you to introduce another fold and stretch? If you have done 3 spaced over 30 min each, you check your window pane and are not happy, what could have happened? Is flour inconsistent? Is the ambient temperature in the room too low? How many more fold and stretches would you do at this point? Thanks!

Hi Sune. What would you suggest to do when after third stretch&fold is dough tearing appart a bit? Should I make one or two more sets? Thanks for answer and your videos!

Why do you pop the air pockets?

I usually start with 1 stretch and fold when the dough is still pretty slack, and then do gentle 3 coil folds. sometimes I add 4th one but just make half coil then

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Half of them coil fold? What kind of crumb do you end up with?

Hi, I was wondering what would cause the need to do about 8-10 stretch and folds when using 40% rye and 60% all purpose (both organic). Crumb turns out fine. So I need more starter or more active starter? My pre-fermentation doubled within 4 hrs

I thought about your experiment and you resolved one of the questions I had about creating my own formula of the type of high hydration bread I’m looking for. One as you pointed out very cleverly is the folding of the dough. I think what I would like to see is a crumb that is more fluffy, not so full of air pockets, more of a finer crumb but not very dense not wet. So I’m thinking either less water or the use of an A/P flour in the mix or to use 1/4 tsp yeast? What are your thoughts?

Was the coil fold baked last? Because it might have benefited also of extra proofing. I see also difference when I bake my bread, folded exactly the same, between the first baked one and the last one.

Hi, thanks for your excellent videos. An interesting experiment would be to see the affect of adding the starter before or after autolyse. Thanks a lot for your amazing work!

Great job. I've always wondered which method was best for forming gluten.

Why did you not compare to traditional kneading? Is the advantage of autolysing+stretch and fold just that a wet sourdough is difficult to handle?

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Kneading is more appropriate for dry doughs, where as stretch and fold, coil fold and also slap and fold are for wetter doughs (as you say). You can mix both dry and wet dough on a machine. In case of a very wet dough on a machine you use a method called bassinage where you work the gluten in a drier dough first and then add more water later :)

@jyork1001

4 жыл бұрын

@@Foodgeek That makes sense. I'm a fairly new baker, and I'd only encountered stretch and fold type techniques with foccacia, which is a very wet dough. I just started my sourdough starter, and I was surprised to see how popular a method I thought of as a foccacia technique was for traditional loaves! Bassinage sounds really fascinating, I'd love to try it some time PS - I just discovered your channel, and its great! Keep up the good work!

Considering that you're using plastic boxes, what do you think of Challengers Proofing box? I'm a beginner baker.

@Foodgeek

Жыл бұрын

I have one of the boxes, and it's great to work the dough in, but hard to tell when it's finished fermenting, in my opinion :)

@patd6370

Жыл бұрын

@@Foodgeek Thanks so much for responding. I was concerned because I haven't seen any reviews on this item. I'm confused by the different types of proofing containers. (Video review, maybe 😊). In the meantime, which banneton basket size & maker do you recommend?

@Foodgeek

Жыл бұрын

@@patd6370 I recommend a see-through container with straight sides; it doesn't have to be a specific brand. I like the Cambro containers because they are built like tanks :) I link to the correct size oval and round bannetons that I use. They are for 500g of dough, but they work fine for 700g. There aren't really consistent brands for bannetons :) Round Proofing Baskets: fdgk.net/buy-proofing-baskets Oval Proofing Baskets: fdgk.net/buy-oval-proofing-baskets Cambro Container 6 qt/6 liter: fdgk.net/buy-cambro-container-6-qt Cambro Container 4 qt/3.5 liter: fdgk.net/buy-cambro-container-4-qt Cambro Container 2 qt/1.9 liter: fdgk.net/buy-cambro-container-2-qt Cambro Lid 2qt/1.9 liter: fdgk.net/buy-cambro-lid-2-qt

Thanks. This is what I was curious about. I learned a lot^^

Is it bad to sigh in relief as I watch you struggle with sticky dough? I had a real battle today proofing my dough enough so I could shape it. It was an epic fight and I think I won. Tried some coil folding and slap and folds. I see. It goes in the oven in a minute. Do you know what the reason is for super sticky dough? I use only whole wheat flowers, about 80% hydration, and from start to the fridge it takes me about 14 hours, with still enough live in my dough. I really have no clue why it goes from really ok, to nightmare in a few folds, while still not strong enough to make a nice windowpane. If anybody has an answer or suggestion, I would love to hear it. This will be my 8th sour dough bread, so am still a bit of a newbie. I love your video’s and your vibe. Learning a lot! Thank you for your many experiments, so I have to do less...😋🙏

What happens if you finish your flour and have to use corn starch? Or corn flour I’m curious to see the side effect

Thanks for the video. You mentioned that you added the levain to the autolysed dough after it double in volume. Do you remember how long that took in this case?

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

I don't remember exactly, but it usually takes 3-4 hours at 21C/70F with my starter 😊

20 Celsius is 70 Fahrenheit

I almost punched my screen while you were struggling with the coil fold.

@dalmanatus

3 жыл бұрын

I feel you

@yeby_8203

3 жыл бұрын

Lol I was looking for this comment. 😆

@lml7

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂

After I mix and rest for 30 I stretch fold 1 hour later stretch fold 3 hours later stretch fold , let it set on the counter for 8 hours after the final fold then flour prep and in the oven! Am I wrong?

Agh, I love your experiments :)

Great video, thanks for experimenting and doing the "mad science." You have UNvented the one-hand S&F (knitting legend Elizabeth Zimmerman used that term for when knitters re-invent some way of doing something). I've not tried coil folding yet, will give it a whirl.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Well, I am sure many people have done that. Uninvented stuff 😁 Coil folding is even more relaxing than the regular stretch and folds 😁🙏✨💫

@clairepiper7141

4 жыл бұрын

@@Foodgeek The only disadvantage is that it requires two hands...often one of my hands is occupied doing other things such as managing the water squirt bottle, moving stuff around on the counter, fending off a cat that wants to "help" etc.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Claire Piper My late cat never walked on the kitchen counter. It was a bit odd 😹

@clairepiper7141

4 жыл бұрын

@@Foodgeek They are all so unique, aren't they? I currently have three, all older rescues. Only one, orange-and-white Steve, who thinks he is the boss of everything and every one, walks on the counter. He supervises dishwashing, showers, sewing, knitting and all activities.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Claire Piper Yes, I love cats. Ours died recently. 19 years old. I guess it was just her time.

Hej Sune - tak for inspirerende eksperimenter! Hvis du har lyst til flere, så kunne det være sjovt at se hvor meget det betyder hvis man ændrer tiden mellem folds. Den samlede fermenteringstid skal nok være den samme?, men hvis man kunne lave sine folds med f.ex. 10min. imellem istedet og så en længere hviletid efter alle folds ville det nogle gange være nemmere at passe ind i en hverdag.

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Det er en god idé :) Har du kigget på mit "no knead" brød som slet ikke kræver folds? Det laver jeg ofte når jeg ikke har så meget tid :)

@CarstenHessdk

4 жыл бұрын

@@Foodgeek Det tjekker jeg lige ud ;-)

are they baked directly from the fridge?

Thanks for your experiments! One question... I've tried al sorts of different stretch-and-fold and time experiments, but I never could get my dough structure tight enough so that it could hold its form. All of my breads flow so that I have to bake them in a tin. Is it the stretch-and-fold or the flour (using strong white bread flour for the bread and rye for the starter).

@commentingaccount1383

4 жыл бұрын

A very long autolyse is helpful. Also, chilling them in the fridge for a couple hours after you shape them really helps them hold their form as you transfer them to the oven. There are other ways to develop gluten as well. Try doing slap and folds, and try doing lamination as well. If you are doing these things and your dough still gets too runny to work with, then you may be overproofing your dough. Check this video out too it might be a bit helpful kzread.info/dash/bejne/eayp1rqSg62qfKg.html

@nickd986

4 жыл бұрын

It’s normally down to shaping, if you preshape and it spreads shape again in 15 minutes if it still spreads do it again and again every 15 minutes until it holds. Every time will add some strength to its structure and make sure you are smooth side down sticky side up to get the tension. If all that still fails try using less water until you have something controllable. You can always progress back up

Brad Leone coined fermentation station first?

Super cool video! But what about slap and folds? Do they really make any difference ?

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Slap and folds are for very high hydration doughs, so they do serve a purpose, although I think nothing a good autolyse can't fix 😊

Hey Sune, great content, as always. With no-knead method, even with a long autolyze, it could end up with not enough gluten development for me. How long do you generally autolyze for a single loaf (around 900g to 1kg of end product)? I autolyze with starter added, could that be the main culprit?

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you ❤️ You should autolyse without the starter or else the fermentation starts and will screw with your timings. If you autolyse without the starter the gluten can develop without any fear of over fermentation 😁

@baratrion

4 жыл бұрын

@@Foodgeek Oh so, it could totally go lumpy because of overfermentation only? And there is no way to fix it right?

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

baratrion No, you can use it as discard or make a flatbread on a pan 😊

I have been baking sourdough for a long while and do not do any stretch and fold at any point. I still get a great loaf; I am not saying it is as good as if I had done stretch and fold, but the pain in the arse factor involved in stretch and fold just does not seem worth the effort. Once I mix all the ingredients together in a 'shaggy mess'' (without autolyse), I leave until it has risen, then quickly shape it (maybe 20 seconds), and place it into the basket.

It seems to me that the crucial explanatory variable was the length of the final proofing. You should repeat the test but with reversed order of baking. I know it's easy to just ask for another one of these tests, but you seems like the right person to do it. Maybe if you ever need an idea for a new video you could revisit this question.

Tried the slap and fold method next time!

Hi Sune, hope this isn't echoed further down in the comments, but do you still believe the coil fold has made a noticeable change in the 6 months that have passed since you filmed this, or have you come to any new conclusions? Thank you for the content!

@Foodgeek

4 жыл бұрын

Coil fold seems marginally better because of the gentle handling, but to be honest I prefer my one handed stretch and fold :) I think you should use the one that you prefer. Just be gentle when you do it :)

Hi Sune, thank you for this experiment. Really appreciate it. I will also change to coil fold moving forward. I wonder what are you going to do with all the bread after you have baked them? 😅