If you could choose: Would you buy a Prusa MK4, a Bambulab X1 or a P1P and why? Also: check out our CNC Kitchen products at cnckitchen.store/ or at resellers www.cnckitchen.com/reseller and on AMAZON (EU) geni.us/s8rYtQ

@EvilSewnit

Жыл бұрын

Prusa because the Bambus are extremely loud

@BeefIngot

Жыл бұрын

Bambulab X1C. Why? I already did 😁 But also, a variety of reasons. (Warning; This got longer than expected) 1. Prusa seems to wait just too long to make significant progress. They slept on their laurels and relied on their reputation for support, open source and reliability. 2. Prusa tells half truths sometimes (like that the MK4s now prints fast when it doesn't even offer input shaping yet), and their new attitude on their blog about open source rubs me the wrong way. Its like they are doing with many companies that go open source and trying to soft back pedal on the stance because they see the small profits they could be making if they shut down clone printers, ironically stepping on the very thing that brought them into the mainstream. 3. You just aren't getting a lot of bang for your buck compared to the Bambulab X1C. Sure their support is notably worse, but how often do you really need support? I mean really, I would like that aspect to improve, but its there _enough_ to be serviceable and then you are getting the faster speeds, no effort printing and video feed print monitoring, and enclosed chamber, which would bring the comparable Prusa option to being significantly more expensive than it, and thats without the layer scanning or a decent multi filament system (though we'll have to see when reviews for the new MMU come out). Ok, well what about the P1P? Well in my opinion, thats an even bigger open and shut case, because either you pay less money and get a faster printer that works out of the box, or pay more money for a slower printer that you have to then spend 8 hours building for no apparent reason when you could use that time to build something else, or make your own creation. 4. I've recently been annoyed with the sort of mud slinging from Joseph Prusa himself on various platforms. It feels like he's willing to go to the point of almost bending the truth because he knows that Prusa as a company has been sleeping at the wheel for too long and now he has a new player hot at his heels. To be clear, I'm not saying everything he says is invalid, but _a lot_ of it is, and that's not good. Seeing this sort of attitude was really the first time I've felt negative sentiment towards Prusa as a brand. It feels like the friendly people centric facade started to slip. Combine that with their new stances on open source, and the not quite whole truths in marketing and it feels like they are trying to transition away from all that they used to stand for. I mean, printables is great, and they do great work with Prusa Slicer, but I think public opinion is trending downwards not up. 5. I've come to realize that a lot of the Prusa magic I thought I saw was more or less a cult of personality thing. Looking at the Mk3, its just a standard, and out of date printer. Looking at the MK4, its now what a standard printer should be as well. They aren't really pushing the envelope, but the XL is where they have the chance to change that by being the first out of the box tool changing printer so they still have a chance to stay at the forefront even though they are behind right now. That all being said, while I actually do get why Bambulab is closed source (especially considering how quickly the other companies clearly rushed to copy them), I still think Prusa, at least while they still haven't reverted get a strong bonus for me for staying open source. Practically speaking, if I didn't buy that Bambulab, I might've gotten a Prusa if not built a kit printer like a voron (I do have 2 cheapo printers as well).

@Id0ntca7e

Жыл бұрын

I dont own a 3D printer yet, but i plan buying one soon. So i inform myself now a longer time. After this video i will more likely buying a prusa mk4 than the bambu lab. The long term support and open eco system as mentioned in the video are some advantages, but for me are others even more important. I have a 2 room apartment and there is a printer with a lower noise level a must have. The speed of the bambu lab is of course great, only i could not have it printing while im doing home office or chilling in the same room. If im going deeper into this hobby, that printer allows me more easily to modify things. Even the price is relatively high of the mk4, there are many things prusa is doing well and that has to be supported.

@Maxleberger

Жыл бұрын

I just ordered the mk4 kit. Was on the fence between x1cc, k1 and mk4+mmu3. Went for the prusa because of the open-source-ness, the basically guaranteed life-long support, the availabilty of spare parts and the upgradebility later on the line.

@vcjuul9190

Жыл бұрын

Definitely not anything Bambu. Not exactly Flashforge levels of bad, but a thoroughly proprietary design that's made virtually unrepairable in some vulnerable areas is a pretty nasty design practice. On top of that, some serious QC issues with parts like carbon rods are already popping up.

BambuLabs' releases last year were the best thing that could happen to Prusa - finally, an incentive to move quickly in the market. I've purchased *five* Prusas over the years and I will always love them, but they really fell asleep at the wheel with their dominance after ~2019. I'm glad that Bambulabs forced them to actually release something again.

@scottr4086

Жыл бұрын

If this was true, they would have released this last year. I don't think they care that much about any perceived pressure.

@maxwell_edison

Жыл бұрын

@@scottr4086 well, they'll care soon enough then. I think a lot of people would prefer the bambuLabs printer over the mk4.

@TMS5100

Жыл бұрын

It's sad that this had to happen. It shows how complacent that not only prusa, but the whole industry has become. Bambu finally woke them from their cryogenic sleep chambers.

@lukesmith9059

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. I built a Voron 2.4 and still love my Prusa Mk3 simply because it basically always works at least with PLA, PETG, TPU, etc. But Prusa definitely needed a kick in the rear to get them to focus. I will probably end up buying the cheaper upgrade kit for my Prusa as I like having a print around I'm not constantly tinkering with, and thus out of commission half the time (the voron). Edit: Also Prusa support really is a value add to the printer when considering the price. When I assembled my mk3 it was the first printer I built, and I asked support some fairly dumb questions to be honest, and they were super informative and quick to respond, no way you would get the same level of support with Creality or some of the other cheaper brands.

@TMS5100

Жыл бұрын

@@lukesmith9059 the problem is support is massively expensive and a company should not have to depend so heavily on it as the primary distinguishing factor vs the competition's hardware. prusa is in deep trouble unless they make sweping changes. also they have products like the MMU2 where no amount of support will help fix its fundamentally broken design.

Its mentioned at 12:26 that it can't be a full review, but in my opinion, it should be. They decided to sell the printer like this, so it is what it is. A secondary review down the road is fair enough as well, but I don't think they should really get any leniency here for misleading customers about the features their product would have. This wasn't a beta product. They didn't ship it out for review with disclaimers. This is available to purchase, right now, on their website and at a premium price. They decided that this product, as it is, is what they would sell, and then mislead people by implying fairly strongly to anyone who didn't go deep into detail that it had input shaping. What this really seems like is a futurized beta mk3s++

@swissfreek

Жыл бұрын

I agree. I'm irked that the advertising is so much "it can do this! (*in the future)". But at the same time I get that they would have been absolutely eviscerated if they *didn't* say something about input shaping. So they were in kind of a tough spot. But the way they mentioned it certainly comes across a little shady. Like you said, this is the finished product they chose to release, so this is what should be reviewed today. The input shaping and whatever other future features that will come are more like a MK4S ("S for speed!" lol). I will say that this does highlight something Prusa has in my opinion always been strong about. The printer you buy today has a long upgrade path and they aren't the types to say "cool that you bought last year's model, but you can throw that in the trash now and buy this year's with new features!" Just wish they had marketed it differently.

@Ahheck01

Жыл бұрын

Very well said. Huge Prusa fan, love my Mk3s+, but agree on everything you said.

@awilliams1701

Жыл бұрын

Well it's kind of a full review for today, but it's not a final review. I suspect he'll come back for a final one after the updates are released in a couple of months.

@Keptains

Жыл бұрын

Preorderded, and i will get it anyways, a Prusa XL. When ordering it i thought "hmmm i put klipper on my Anycubic i3 Mega now im wondering if Prusa has input shaper as well" and then i thought like ofcourse the have to already have it. So yes it really was a bummer to hear "oh, our version of input shaper will be available some time later". Regardles of that, regardless of seeing the Bambu Lab printers, regardless of considering a Ratrig V-Core 3.1 first: i still went with the Prusa XL as it will bring neat out-of-the-box features like multi toolhead and partially heated bed(Good for Small and Good prints aswell as bedwarping) and other things. But most importantly this time i wanted to have a workhorse Printer where i simply press a button and it starts printing without calibrating or anything.

@swissfreek

Жыл бұрын

@@awilliams1701 That's the thing with Prusa though, there's never a "final" review. What they put out today is the finished product, not a beta, not pre-production. It stands alone. Prusa will continue to periodically update it for years. That's one of the great things about having a Prusa printer. In a year, you can bolt on new features, instead of having to start from scratch with a whole new product. And that's exactly why it's still a bed-slinger even though the new hotness is CoreXY.

I think this is very fair coverage. Like you, I paid for my MK3 and it has been a reliable workhorse. I like Bambu machines too but I agree I don't want only them on the market. I won't be buying a MK4 or upgrading my MK3 to this spec, but I do have a 5 tool XL on order that I am happy to pay the Prusa tax on. I will be very disappointed if it releases with missing advertised features though.

@TMS5100

Жыл бұрын

* creality and qidi have entered the chat

@skywardsoul1178

Жыл бұрын

@@TMS5100 Can't comment on qidi, but I'll never buy another creality product. Bad QC and false advertising. Generally poor support.

@allertschallenberg1857

Жыл бұрын

Michael, I understand the monopoly argument in essence, but I do wonder why that's an argument now, when a new competitor enters the arena. Are you saying they're too good then?

@Tetribution

10 ай бұрын

@@allertschallenberg1857 Prusa is open source, Bambu isn't - While a "monopoly" isn't really the argument here, It's just how a lot of 3d printing has gone forward. If I had to choose between two giants I'd rather choose the open source one!

@jakabgipsz4788

5 ай бұрын

@@Tetribution Open source means that no one has to pay a licence fee for certain modules or solutions. So why does Prusa double the price of its printers? By the way, Bambulab's entry into the market will help competition. I don't think it will put an end to open source printers...in fact, alternative open firmware has just been released for the Bambulab X1!

I have a Prusa MK3 and a Bambu X1C. There are both great printers but the Prusa MK4 is incremental in improvement. The X1C leveled up my printing. Hands down X1C.

@irql2

5 ай бұрын

Agreed. Its really not even a comparison in terms of user experience in my opinion. The Bambu is the iphone experience. If you want to really dig in and get your hands dirty, get a prusa or build your own if thats what you're in to. If you want that sleek iphone experience, bambu.

@joelv4495

2 ай бұрын

@coryg945 Or an MK4 kit and keep the MK3.

@InvitusCode

2 ай бұрын

@@irql2"If you want to really dig in and get your hands dirty, get a prusa" .. no. A Prusa is pretty conveniently product for dummies.. But if you want to "dig in" buy an Ender 3v2, install Klipper und upgrade the shit out auf this thing... after 2 years you are a 3D-Printing Veteran. Max. frustration is 100% quaranteed on your way, but after, you will know every Screw, every Nut, every feature .. I promise ... Getting my first prusa was like vacation / holiday.

I worked at Prusa at the time, though not on the MK4, and can vouch that the hardware has been overdesigned and overengineered something silly, which is a good part of the reason it's quite late. It really is rock solid though. We had dozens of these printing away half a year ago, they've only improved. BUT the criticism is absolutely 100% justified, it really is quite offensive that it's not all up and running on release. That's just not right. We had our fair share of squabbles with the SW/FW team, personally I'd think they could do with hiring a bunch more guys for there, but then again Prague has only a bit over 1M citizens so that might be trickier than it sounds.

@meikgeik

Жыл бұрын

I work in game development, and finding Programmers right now is a nightmare. I've had people demand 2-3x the salary of what our current programmers make (all of them are happy with their wages) for even junior positions. I'm not sure what's going on over there, but if it's anything like the programmer market where I live, that could be a factor. Also, I don't mean to sound callous about wages, but I'm talking about wages that would make a doctor or lawyer jealous... We're a small studio with a well defined budget. It's not fair for some people to be saving for a house for a couple of years while others show up to work in a lambo.

@4Ivarr

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Trying to hire sw engineers in Brno is also tough. It's a very competitive market.

@retromodernart4426

Жыл бұрын

LOL shìII, it's a day lat a thousand dollars or so too expensive POS, keep lyìñg to yourself...

@retromodernart4426

Жыл бұрын

@@meikgeik Your current programmers are phools, they should be working for a crust of bread and a bowl of water so you can be more profitable, how dare the peons want to earn lots of money too...

@gadjetsvideo

Жыл бұрын

It's the same in the Automotive industry, getting good engineers is very difficult at the moment

Since you mentioned Printables - the one frustrating thing is their search interface. Clicking a faux search box only to have the cursor jump to a real one is frustrating for users with accessibility needs. They could have just gone with a simple search field that worked the way every other website does. :(

@ScarfmonsterWR

Жыл бұрын

I have no accessibility needs and that fake search box confuses me every time too, I can only imagine how bad it is for someone who has them.

@swissfreek

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I don't get what's up with that weird design language. That weird box gets me every time.

@MayaPosch

Жыл бұрын

There's also way to use that website in any other browser than Chrome or Firefox, leaving Pale Moon users and others rather annoyed. I'm not sure what the developers behind the site were thinking, to be honest...

@gz625

Жыл бұрын

Lol who cares about invalids 😂

@St0RM33

Жыл бұрын

i agree

Sold my Prusa MKS3+ and went for the X1 Carbon. Bambu is light years ahead. I really do hope Prusa and others step up their game!

@fabien85100

Жыл бұрын

Yes but do you think you could keep your bambu lab working after 2 or 3 years (comparing with a prusa)?

@ReeferReas

Жыл бұрын

@@fabien85100 I definitely think that bambu will provide support and spare parts for a long time. Their wiki etc is great. But of course, only time will tell.

@grumpyoldgamerUK

Жыл бұрын

​​@@fabien85100 My experience with a Prusa mini was poor and got sent back. I had a P1P delivered a couple of days ago and it really is a game changer imho This is the printer I have been wanting for years especially after having several Crealitys. Something that just works while offering great quality and speed. I don't really care for the whole open / closed argument I don't want the printer as a hobby to fiddle with and when you watch the Bambu in action you can see where all the development went and how much tech is working together The early testing of the K1 also shows the benefit of closed sourcing

@jocelyndrolet4610

Жыл бұрын

Same for me and i have no regret.😀😀😀😀😀

@johnlisle123

Жыл бұрын

@@grumpyoldgamerUK Do you mind me asking, was there a reason you went with the P1P rather than the X1C? Was it just a price decision?I'm just tryinig to decide which one to order.

One thing to point out about Bambu vs Prusa. At least in Canada it's a lot easier to get your hands on a Bambu than a Prusa. Spare parts is also easier to get. Ordering official Prusa parts is pretty expensive here because of shiping/duty. I'm sure it'll vary where you live but good to know if you live here.

@svachalek

Жыл бұрын

Same in the USA. I had some issues with the mk3 and it’s really frustrating to pay $2 for a part and $50 for shipping.

@cyber649

Жыл бұрын

This is so true. One of the reasons I cancelled my mk4 and got a x1c instead. I still have my mk3s+ and still a great machine.

@ivyr336

Жыл бұрын

The benefit of open source then. You don't need official prusa parts

@EmmeryCheung

Жыл бұрын

@@youeatthemtheydie You're right you don't have to, I"m just saying shipping cost is something to keep in mind when you make a decision. For example if you want to order an upgrade kit you'd have to order direct and don't forget that awsome prusament.

@Swarm509

Жыл бұрын

I have two MK3 printers when I was printing a ton but I doubt I would buy another if I was in the market for a new replacement. I still recommend a Prusa to people who are not very mechanical/tech savy as I've had great experiences with tech support and company, and the printers pretty much just work out of the box, but otherwise I would be looking at a Bambu or different company.

It’s important to keep in mind that a lot of the parts on the Bambu Lab machines are not user serviceable. The X and Y linear rods are epoxied into place and the idlers are pressed in with one way pins. They also do not sell any of these parts. I saw one example where a user had to send the whole machine back for a bad idler. Basically if you have any problems with the rods, bearings or idlers out of warranty you’re screwed.

@rsilvers129

Жыл бұрын

Just pay for service or buy a new P1P for $699.

@squishybrain

Жыл бұрын

Excellent point! This is the main reason why I rejected the possibility of purchasing a Bamboo Lab printer.

@PyroNine9

Жыл бұрын

That's a huge reason I would consider an MK4 before a Bambu Labs machine. Maintainability matters.

@BeefIngot

Жыл бұрын

You are simply wrong about the linear rods

@LilApe

Жыл бұрын

@@BeefIngot No, hes not. Bambu lab themselves have stated that the motion system is NON SERVICEABLE. Your only option when the bushings wear out, is to send the printer back to china for repair.

FINALLY, a honest review from a person who is NOT a SHILL. Thank you Stefan for being honest. A nice machine no doubt....but like you i expected a bit more, still a bed slinger, a touchscreen that does not work, no imput shaping, still slow...and the price. If prusa can solve these things before bambu come out with yet another market shaker, then i may replace my mk3 with another Prusa.

@johnfaustus1

Жыл бұрын

This is important, as a good 90% of KZreadrs are i) Prusa fanboys and ii) on Prusa's direct or indirect payroll (obtuse sponsorships usually). There is no justification for _yet another_ 15-yearold bedsligner iteration, especially one at 1000USD base price.

@Marco-yk8kp

Жыл бұрын

stefan is probably one of the biggest shills on the site lol. he has banned people on his comments who suggest phaetus hotends and pretends like they dont exist, because slice pays him to do so

@AlbertoMartinez765

Жыл бұрын

@@johnfaustus1 YES!

@jenspetersen5865

Жыл бұрын

Unless you need to print a lot of TPU/TPE then why in the world would you go with a Prusa MK4 that is 450€ more than the cheap Bambulab that has it beat in every aspect?

@McBearyOne

Жыл бұрын

@@jenspetersen5865 Noise, The Bambu is really loud and not everyone has the space. My printer is in my office, next to our bedroom. And it is produced in the EU and not in China. Maybe that’s dumb, from a personal point of view, but I try to buy „local“ products over Chinese. And they have great support. If I have problems, even years from now, I know I could fix the printer. But mostly it’s the noise and where they build those machines. That being said, the X1C is a great printer, for most people it is better and I still think about getting one too, once I figured out where to put it.

Wow! You did a thorough job of "comparison without bias" (if such a thing is possible), and I am impressed. I think you touched upon almost all of the comparison points. Thank you for the tremendous effort you must have put into this.

I'm really glad there's a good upgrade path for the Mk3 - Mk4. I've wanted to add networking for a long time and didn't because of the limited options, and supply issues. I'll upgrade my 3x Mk3's and probably still buy a Bambu.

The whole reason I went with Prusa was for the support and community. Got tired of other brands where you can't get parts, no support, no options. Sure also helps it's a damn good printer. I'll either sell my mk3s to buy a 4, or I'll upgrade.

@jakubmastalir3557

Жыл бұрын

prusa doesnt have any community and support is only acceptable

@mercerwing1458

Жыл бұрын

@@jakubmastalir3557 What?

@TheJustinist

Жыл бұрын

​@@mercerwing1458 yeah what they said is just straight not true.

@BlackOmegaVirus

Жыл бұрын

Me too

@BlackOmegaVirus

Жыл бұрын

@@jakubmastalir3557 😂 wtf

The problem with the firmware features reminds me very much of the release of the prusa mini. Originally, the wifi connectivity was one of the main reasons why I bought a mini in pre order. I was allowed to wait about 1.5 years for this feature though, which is why I've already built a voron and a mk3s on klipper in the meantime.

@AttilaSVK

Жыл бұрын

Also AFAIK, the Mini was supposed to come with X/Y perpendicularity correction, just like the i3 MK2 and MK3 did. There's still nothing despite the fact that the Mini is the printer which needs it the most, because of its construction.

@wilurbean

Жыл бұрын

how'd you put klipper on there

@justinhenley162

Жыл бұрын

This was one of the main things that soured me on Prusa. It took them almost 3 years to add WiFi to the Mini, by the time they added it I had mine listed for sale. They also never added the power loss recovery they promised and as far as I know it still doesn’t have the print farm software they promised.

@UnwrittenGamingftn

Жыл бұрын

I feel this, all of their new features on mk4 are just klipper features

@KanielD

Жыл бұрын

Not only did the Wi-Fi take forever to be released, but it is 🗑️ compared to every other solution.

I've had the Prusa for two weeks now. It is rock solid. Just click and print. That is exactly what I was looking for. I did not want a tinkering toy. I love the open source community too.

@coltonhuntmusic

10 ай бұрын

That’s what I’m looking for too!

@LordDemeroth

10 ай бұрын

Great! That fantastic. I saw MK4 live and still bought P1P becase it's rock solid as well, cheaper and 3x Faster than Prusa. Even the cheap Creality ender S1 with klipper has pressure advance. Prusa was great but 5 years ago. Now they are light years ahead of competition.

@Herr.Mitternacht

6 ай бұрын

Bambu is way faster and makes better prints. Wrong decision.

@JuanJDumeP

4 ай бұрын

Following the reveal of X1Plus, a forthcoming third-party firmware possible thanks to a firmware "loophole", Bambu Lab says it will open the X1 to rooting.

@joeking433

4 ай бұрын

Get a Bambu Labs A1 for $399. It's as good as the mk4 at less than half the price.

I agree with the open source community and approach and I also really enjoy printing with my 3 Bambu Lab printers. So little to work on and with much printing being done

I don't know if someone else pointed this out about the prices, but bamboo lab prices are without taxes, while prusa prices altrady have them included, and in my country increases the price of 22%

@BaldurNorddahl

Жыл бұрын

The p1p WITH taxes is still cheaper than the Prusa Mk4 kit. And of course a lot cheaper then the Mk4 you can actually buy (the non kit version).

@orsodaikin

Жыл бұрын

@@BaldurNorddahl Yes, I know but comparisons should be done both with taxes or without taxes

@nukularpictures

Жыл бұрын

@@orsodaikin this is why they were done in usd. Us prices are almost always without taxes as the vary from state to state. So don't worry, it was a fair comparison. Both were without VAT

@orsodaikin

Жыл бұрын

​@@nukularpictures good to know

After 4000 hours on a MK3+, I will definitely go with a known company that has given so much to this community. I am upgrading my amazing 'fire and forget' and 'reliable print while I sleep' Prusa printer.

@thomasking9524

7 ай бұрын

Prusa wont disappear a year from now like so many companies. Their tinkering means I have a 100% reliable printer.

@Chickennuggetjoes

Ай бұрын

@@thomasking9524lol Bambu labs has far from disappeared. At this rate they will outlast prusa

I spent alot of time with my new MK4 trying to figure out why it was slow. The main reason I got it was for the input shaping.

I appreciate you and your videos. We mostly align with how we feel with Prusa. I own 3 Minis and absolutely love them. I love that I don't worry about them. I print and walk away. - Not like the bad experience with the Ender 3 I started with. Fast forward. I want a bigger machine, and fast sounds good. Shortly after almost buying the X1C, Prusa announced the MK4. Decisions!- i almost went for the MK4, BUT, after reading their web page noting "capable" of high speed printing, it pushed me closer to X1C. Add the fact that the X1C already has an enclosure, has a hardened nozzle, and is already proven fast, and it made that choice for me. I'll probably add a MK4 or XL in the future, though. I need to recoup my business expense first.

To me it's clear they rushed it out to market because Bambu was getting too much market share and they wanted to slow them down. Promising features in the future might suck but could be enough to entice Prusa fans from sticking to their brand.

@_Xantras_

Жыл бұрын

But they didn't. The MK4 has been in the work since at least 2 years.

@schrodingerscat1863

Жыл бұрын

The bought it out now because much of the technology is on the XL and they didn't want competitors in China producing a MK4 like machine before Prusa shipped theirs. Bambu is a nice machine on paper and seems deliver what it promises but we will have to see how reliable it is when it's been in the wild for a year or so.

@alejoh90

Жыл бұрын

Should have been a little longer in development, then.

@Neo1983m

Жыл бұрын

@@schrodingerscat1863 I can answer that for you right now. I am 100% sure that after a good year, there will be almost no support or any spare parts for the Bambu. Even now you can repair almost nothing on it. No exchange of the bearings, no exchange of the carbon shafts, nothing. Much is even glued in. Holy Sh*: In 1-2 years, most X1C and P1P will be on the dump, because Bambu will have thrown the next printer on the market by then. Throw away and buy new instead of repairing will be the motto.

@amogusenjoyer

Жыл бұрын

@@Neo1983m yes you can repair it easily. What are you talking about?

i got a mk3 s+ recently and love it, i totally agree with your views too, a prusa also is designed to be repairable which is something i really appreciate

The ONLY MK4 review I was waiting for. Thank you Stephan

Looking at your last video, where you installed an aftermarket hotend on a bambulab machine and ran into some issues... this is where prusa's open designs really shine. Adding custom parts is super easy on prusa machines. And the fact that they have a V6 compatible adapter and a breakout board on the toolhead is just the cherry on top.

@dickard8275

Жыл бұрын

But is there really a need to upgrade it? I understand if you like to customize your printers, but the X1c is fast enough out of the box.

@amarissimus29

Жыл бұрын

@@dickard8275 It's not really upgrading per se... there are always little bits here and there that benefit from tinkering. A new fan shroud idea, a stiffer rail brace, just adding text to a part, etc. Speed is way, way down on the list of tweaks, even when, in my case, your livelihood depends on well printed parts. Relying on proprietary hardware is a huge leap of faith, especially on a product with an unknown long-term reliability. A good start is great, to be sure, but a well-earned reputation carries a lot of weight a long way.

@ashleys3dprintshop

Жыл бұрын

@@amarissimus29 Well I have a (not so ) unique perspective. I have an mk3s+ and Bl X1CC. I am close to 2500hrs printed on the X1C and forgot how many hours on the mk3.( dont feel like bringing it out and powering it up for hours logged) but I have printed more in the past 9 months on the new printer than YEARS on the bed slinger. The X1C is my workhorse and side hustle. There is a reason why the MK3 has been sidelined and the Mk4 is a slightly better mk3s. Let's just say if my X1C vanished tomorrow I would get another. It has made back my investment and then some and has been by far my most reliable printer.

@tasmedic

Жыл бұрын

Hi Nikola. Could you please explain to me how the soft iron egg works in the rotating magnetic field, and how I can make my own tungsten particle accelerator? I'd be most grateful. Also. I'm very sorry that Marconi copied your patent for the tuned circuit. He had no idea what it was, or how it worked, but it did make him a lot of money. We now have materials available to make your "skin effect" turbine a reality. Have you got a kickstarter set up yet? RIP, old timer. One of the few true geniuses to walk this earth. And a friend to pigeons and a cat, to boot!

@nehemiahcoble

Жыл бұрын

@@amarissimus29 thing is the company is reliable as well as their replacement parts being very easy to use and get your hands on so longevity of a hotend is horribly important if your printing amazing and fast prints

What a great insight! It was an honour to do the internship with you and I learned so much. Looking forward to the following videos ;) !

@CNCKitchen

Жыл бұрын

Was great having you here!

I've had my mk3s since they came out and it is still the most used and most loved of the 4 printers I own (the other 3 are all newer than the mk3s). I am a design engineer and fiddler and have actually designed and built my own version if an I3 from scratch that a friend uses, but for me, the reliability of Prusa (with no need to fiddle) and great support makes all the difference. I fiddle an upgrade am Ender 5 plus and when I need to print something, just use the Prusa. , All of the proprietary nature of the bamboo is a defined deal breaker. I am also unsure if the mk4 is worth my money as I have never been unhappy with the print quality on the mk3s and most of my prints run overnight, so faster is not necessarily better for me

Thanks for the video highlighting every reason why I went with my Bambu X1C vs this thing

Just bought an X1C and love it!!! The AMS is incredible

The fact they said it prints 4x faster but it doesn't actually I feel like is something people aren't talking about enough. It feels like misleading marketing even though I know it says it quietly somewhere. It feels like they knew they had to do something to appear to compete so they slapped the touch sensing of the XL and their own copy of marlins new input shaping feature into their now custom build and are acting like they invented the wheel. Also, as a side note, its funny they complain about Bambulab not making PRs when they make new features in Bambustudio when you don't see Prusa improving the marlin available for all printers. Just kinda rubs you the wrong way. Like they made basically a proprietary version of marlin with the veneer of being helpful and open source, and then are angry at another company who arguably is doing similar but in a more open fashion.

@BaldurNorddahl

Жыл бұрын

Same thing for Prusa Slicer. Why steal Slic3r and then not contribute changes back to the original project? And yet claim to be the champion of Open Source? They are not!

I've had an MK2S since 2016 and with a number of new parts installed over the years it's still printing at the top of its game. I'm not necessarily a Prusa fanboy but I do like to keep my tools and cars running for a long time and Prusa has a proven track record of supporting legacy machines. For that reason alone I'd probably lean towards another Prusa product which I can repair and upgrade myself.

Great video as always - I think your opinion on thr Prusa is well stated because their influence on the market is undeniable, and your comments are accurate about the current features and the value of the currently software limited features as well.

Great video! First like you I love my Prusa! I purchased my MK3 in 2020. I love it, have had virtually no issues and I love the fact that Prusa support is always there when I do have a question or problem. When I heard about the MK4 I thought it would be fast like the Bambo. My Atari cartridge holder takes 22 hours to print and I would like to cut the time down. So I started looking at the Bambu. But, the more I learned about the Bambo the more I was afraid of my investment. I read a lot of horror stories about the hot beds being warped and getting replacement or exchanges very difficult due to Bambo being located in Shenzen, China. So rather than take a gamble on the Bambo, I will stick with Prusa. I like being able to contact Prusa any time of any day for any questions or problems. People have reported issues getting answers or fixes from Bambo. So rather than worry if Bambo will be here 6 months from now with proprietary everything, I will buy a MK4. This video helped me! I hope it helps you too!

@9dvds

3 ай бұрын

Any regret 9 months on?

Thanks for the amazing video Stefan. I share each word of your thinking, even though the reality is that the BL is superior at a comparable price. Relevant to the open source i am actually very curious to see how Prusa will approach the new features of mk4 which may be interesting for its competitors, like the handling of the load cell data, or their version of input shaping. Let s see. I think that Bambulab really shook the market and put Prusa on the back foot but this is all beneficial for customers so i'll just sit back and enjoy what the next leaps in this field might be

Very well-reasoned overview of the MK4 and how to place it in the marketplace. I appreciate the points you included about the open source community as well as vendor support.

@EinfachFredhaftGaming

Жыл бұрын

Read an article yesterday about them moving away from open source, lol

Bambu’s A1 has now made a move that will hurt Prusa in the wallet. The offerings, capabilities, multi-color option are all options that prusa can’t reach at their price point.

You honestly changed my mind a little about the relevance of the MK4. I still think they need to (at least slightly) re-evaluate the price point they can command given the competition. They are bringing a really nice knife to a gun fight. The new hotend is a great start. The new board is a looooong overdue correction. But... 1. No enclosure. 2. Bed slinger. 3. Incomplete firmware missing promised features. So I just don’t get how they think they can still command a premium price-point. I think Josef is going to wake up with the mother of all hangovers when his fanboys (and fangirls) have abandoned him. The MK4 will delay the decline. But I think Prusa Research is in genuine peril if they don’t have an enclosed non-bed slinger replacement (a true competitor to the X1) on the market by next year. Sorry, but the pack of gummy bears and Josef’s ego don’t justify a premium price for an open-air bed slinger in 2023.

@maxkool1330

Жыл бұрын

THe XL man. They just need a downsized version. No need to get rid of the i3 design. It is great for mass production.

@CheChe1061

Жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly! It's a $500.00 printer at Best.

@TMS5100

Жыл бұрын

prusa seems to be following the path of printrbot.

@Drumaier

11 ай бұрын

But the gummy bears are really tasty

@muddasarakram419

11 ай бұрын

@@CheChe1061 It isn't made in China, it's made within the EU, reason enough for me.

Too little, too late. They panicked when the Bambu happened and rushed the announcement/release with "good enough" firmware when creality dropped the K1, which sounds like it's using Klipper and Mainsail (EDIT: Apparently Fluidd if it's the Creality Sonic Pad) and will immediately have aftermarket parts (as it's a creality). Prusa did a TON for 3D printing... But nobody knows what the hell a Xerox is nowadays... Becoming #1 doesn't mean you can slack off, if anything you have to work harder because everyone else can use what you learned to catch up to you faster. Prusa slacked and at this point is putting disk breaks on a horse and buggy. Sure it can stop on a dime but... Why?

@AlexanderMoon

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. Reminded me Nokia as well.

@pretzel_tfg

Жыл бұрын

@@AlexanderMoon I almost went with Blackberry instead of Xerox... But both being printer companies was just too good. Lots of companies have done the same thing effectively, and now are at most weird corporate supply with zero consumer awareness.

@AlexanderMoon

Жыл бұрын

@@pretzel_tfg yes, it's called "bad management", not uncommon.

I find your review very honest, but you forgot to mention than Prusa officially want to leave the OpenSource world as it is written in the Joseph blog post. I think it is worth mentioning as it changes everything in the comparison with BambuLab.

@CNCKitchen

Жыл бұрын

Good point. I'll put a link to that article in the description.

@faeranne

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't change *everything* but it changes *a lot*. As it stands they still stand well above Bambu in terms of openness, even if it's not the open we need. Truth be told, what we really need is a new heavy-hitter like Prusa to pick up the Voron base and make heccin good printers from that. No matter how you slice it, in terms of community support and openness, Bamboo holds nothing over Prusa. Doesn't mean Prusa is the only option. (hmmm... now that I say this, I'm gonna start looking at what Voron support there is. Pretty sure I saw *someone* making kits available. Perhaps we could see them jump to replace Prusa soon?)

@JP-xd6fm

Жыл бұрын

@@faeranne I don't get the fuss with the open source thing. If you get a refrigerator or washing machine isn't open source. I rather have a "plug and play", with the chamber and all the fancy laser tech than the "open source" stuff... I miss a good afordable ready to go machine without the pain of calibration and maintenence that almost all 3d printers have, I want it like a microwave oven, just forgetting about it and using it when I need it without to do anything prior or post printing.

@lifeteen2

Жыл бұрын

They don't want to leave OpenSource, they want a better open source hardware license option. Open source software has a handful of different licenses to pick from to serve different needs, open source hardware has much fewer options and the current options don't work very well for Prusa in the current manufacturing climate. It's just too easy for knockoffs to undercut them before they've sold enough printers to pay their engineers for all the work designing and testing them. What they want is a license that blocks direct clones. That's actually hard to do, but it makes sense.

@jeffwitz8556

Жыл бұрын

​@@lifeteen2 Sorry, this debate is decade lates, it has been already sorted out with Creative Commons, if you add the NC option it is not OpenSource. So the statement Prusa want to leave the OpenOurce is right. Nobody says it is easy to have an OpenSource HardWare company, it means that you always have to innovate. They are way behind enthousiast that use Voron, they could embrass Voron, community using Klipper and making their board compatible with in order to have input shaping, but they suffer from the NIH syndrom and want control over the whole process. So they are late, may be to late, a shame for them that the conclusion is to leave OpenSource. What will be the interest in 2 to 3 years to support them if they don't have an Open ecosystem ? What will be the difference execpt the fact that it is technically inferior ? I Hope they will improve on CoreXY, but it will change nothing to the 1k€ market, they are losing it.

@CNC Kitchen I'm torn as well. I really want a Bambu because it's enclosed and have been wanting to print nylon and other materials for several years. But I have a Mk3S+ and it's just such an awesome printer. I recently moved with the Mk3S+ where it traveled more than 900 miles in a truck, stored in a warehouse for 3 months. Sat in my closet (sadly) for another 6 months. The PETG roll was still connected to it and filament about to break in two different places. Earlier tonight I finally took it out of my closet, plugged it in, and printed a random PETG test file on the SDcard. The only thing I did, was wipe whatever dust was on the build plate off using my tshirt and I hit print. The print came out perfect, just the same as the last time I printed it. I didn't even do a calibration on the printer. So I really would love to get a Mk4, but the Mk3S+ is so good that I'm not convinced the 4 is worth upgrading to. Maybe I'll go for the MK3.9 upgrade kit, but I've heard some rumors about issues with the loadcell and other stuff so I'm gonna wait a good while before I decide on buying an upgrade kit.

As a complete newbie to 3D printing two years ago, I got a Prusa MK3S+ kit because it seemed like the best plug-and-play appliance available, even though more expensive than an Ender. I have not been disappointed and it’s been a great hobby and learning experience. Now I’m looking to monetize my skills and do some commercial designing and printing. If I need a second printer, I’ll likely get the MK4 because Prusa is so rock solid and reliable.

The hoops one has to jump through to recommend a Prusa over a Bambu these days are a bit silly to me. I hope Prusa steps up and competes, because, like you said, competition is good for the consumer and the industry as a whole. I do not think charitable stilting of companies lagging years behind behind is helpful to the consumer or the industry. I was really hoping they were going to compete with the Mk4 in price or feature, but objectively, they really have done neither. Printables is however the far better site and I hope everyone uses it and abandons thingiverse. Thingiverse is such a poorly maintained website and has been that way for years. Good on Prusa for that 👏🏼

@chielvoswijk9482

Жыл бұрын

I honestly can't see competition in price/feature as being even possible. Geographically: Asian companies are in a way better position than European companies in regards of parts and labour. I had to wait 6 months for a batch of STM32F402 ARM chips, but an Asian partner of our company had them within 3 bloody weeks for way cheaper to get started on proper production. There is not a single way for any of us to compete against such a market by ourselves. The only way we tend to be able to compete is via a combination of partners that help us get a leg up AND proprietary designs that aren't worth copying at the risk of being blocked in foreign markets. On which yeah, Prusa is stupid for thinking they can still be successful in the long-term as a Open-Source entity that is solely Europe based. It really shouldn't be a wonder for them that people view them as the slow ones, when they and projects like Voron just hand out all their work letting competitors skip years of development and appear as cutting edge.

Thanks for the speed comparison. After Mk4 and XL came out I havent seen any reviewer compare them by their speed until this one. Actually thought mk4 is fast as p1p until now

As someone that help out at a makerspace, that hotend is looking really helpful. New processor as well. Screen is really optional. Printing time would be nice to have, but high speed and 0.2mm usually dont end well, either.

This is the video I needed, thank you Stefan!

I have the X1C, MK3S+, and have ordered a MK4 kit. My Prusa is my go-to machine when I don't need something right away and I want it to look great. I've had far more failures on the XIC than my MK3 (even though I've had the X1C less than 1/3rd the time), and I imagine that the MK4 will fill the same role as a slightly slower printer with rock-solid reliability. I also like that the Prusa is open source and probably easier to source parts for. I've never had an issue with my MK3, but I've had two warranty issues with my X1C and working on the Bambu printers is a nightmare .... unless you have little baby racoon hands ;) ... Oh - and network connectivity on the MK4 will be a welcome addition.

I've loved my MK3 for the last five or so years - it's been incredibly reliable. The MK4's new features look great. Yeah, I'm tempted by the Bambu machine, but I strongly suspect five years from now Prusa will still be supporting my printer. I'm not as sure Bambu will be.

@pecky38

Жыл бұрын

Only time can tell. What if Prusa is just a newly started company? Will you have the same level of trusting?

@spydergs07

Жыл бұрын

Being the developers of Bambu are DJI, I don't see Bambu going anywhere. Plus, no other printer touches the Bambu printers and Prusa really dropped the ball with the MK4.

@lee8org

Жыл бұрын

@@spydergs07 Knowing DJI from their beginning ...they are Not good at all in supporting their own old technologies.

@Dorff_Meister

Жыл бұрын

@@pecky38 I think from my comment it is easy to guess that if Prusa was brand new, I would not trust them, such is why I wonder about Bambu. My MK3 has been nearly problem free for five years. And if you chat with makers, you will find that Prusa is one of the most trusted names - and for pretty good reasons.

@Dorff_Meister

Жыл бұрын

@@lee8org this is my fear with Bambu. A 3d printer isn't a one or two year investment.

Thank you for your honest review. You helped me make my decision that much easier

Prusa reminds me of Nokia . A monopoly that stagnated. Sure I can fire up my old 5110, it still works, still makes calls, very reliable. But it is just a phone (with snake!). The phone I'm holding right now has a colour touch screen, does video in 4K and fills all my banking needs. One is a current, relevant tool, the other is a reminder of an era that has been and gone.

Recently, I decided to upgrade from my 4 year old Ender 3 clone, as it started to need more TLC and I was just tired of working on it and getting inconsistent print quality. I was stuck between a MK4 and a P1P. I chose the P1P because I wanted speed, accuracy, and a stationary bed. Very pleased with my choice, but I might have thought differently if Prusa made a Core XY, or a large format printer.

Just ordered the MK4 kit as an upgrade / replacement for my MK2s. My MK2s has been a real workhorse and once I get my MK4 I will finally get around to upgrading the MK2s to the 2.5s with the kit I bought awhile back but have been too busy printing to install. While I do find aspects of the Bambu offerings interesting and welcome the competition to help advance the technology, I don't like closed proprietary machines.

@mistaecco

Жыл бұрын

I finally encountered some critical issues with my MK2.5s, which coincidentally occurred the day before the mk4 went live. I got mine in the first batch and I can confidently say it's been a joy to use. Straight out the box it printed a flawless 250x210mm layer on the bed, perfect peel and all. The MK2 is also a bit loud but not insanely distrubing... but the mk4 seriously makes it seem EXCESSIVELY loud in comparison. I think you're gonna have a good time :)

I purchased a Bambu X1C after owning two Makerbot Replicators (first gen 2/2x) and the difference 10 years makes is staggering. My ABS parts almost never warp now on the X1C, and I have a 99.99% success rate for parts. The AMS was a bit tricky but works great for what I need it for. I am concerned about doing repairs and I hope they have a Repair Hub in New York City in case my printer breaks down. I ordered the extra parts bundle but I really want things like fans, or filters, or more belts, or circuit boards - things that often go wonky over time. Still the X1C is a very impressive machine, I might actually buy a second for ABS and TPU printing.

Great video. Very enjoyable to watch. Yes, PRUSA and Bambu Labs can co-exist, as competitors. They both have advantages and disadvantages, loyal fans, and we are lucky, to be able to select from which brand we want to buy our printers, filament and so on. What PRUSA has achieved, being a stable player for years and years in the 3D printing industry, that is something that Bambu Labs has to prove.

I had a Prusa MK3 S+ for a couple of years and now I have the Bambu Lab x1-c with AMS. In my humble opinion, you can't compare a MK4 with a Bambu lab because the Bambu lab is 3-4 times faster and a lot easier to use. It is fair to compare 3 Prusa MK4 with one Bambu Lab x1-c without an AMS, that is because the MK4 does not support automatic filament changes. I am extremely happy that I switched from The MK3 to The BL X1-C with AMS.

Really excited to see how the Creality K1 stacks up against the MK4 and X1 Carbon

Have been using a MK3 for 2 years now, and ordered the MK4 kit. Prusa support is top notch.

I have to say, I avoided Prusa because I couldn't understand the hype. I bought a used one since now everyone is dumping them to upgrade, and now I get it. It's amazing. I'm kind of gobsmacked at how well it works, how optimized and how nice the prints come out. So I've already ordered a mk4.

@redone823

Жыл бұрын

Damm you. Your comment borderline made me Crack open my wallet. I'll see if I can get a used one first, as well.

@AndrewEbling

Жыл бұрын

I wanted a mk3 but couldn't justify dropping that much when I wasn't certain how long or deep I'd get into this new hobby. So I bought an Anet A8. Quickly realised both the value of 3D printing and how frustrating an unreliable and untrustworthy cheap printers can be, so upgraded to a mk3. Best decision ever and now I get to spend more time on designing, printing and assembling stuff, rather than faffing with the printer.

@henmich

Жыл бұрын

@@AndrewEbling really tipping red one into the net... lol

@jothain

Жыл бұрын

@@AndrewEbling Bit similar story. I didn't have any 3D drawing experience, only 2D CAD skills. I wanted to get into it, but wasn't ready to drop that kind of money into product I didn't know I would "stick in". So got Anet A6. Horrible junk, unreliable, but it made learn 3D stuff to be able to actual things. But A6 quickly got hassle to use. Even worse was it's known missing safety features that could literally burn you house down, so fiddling with it and even worse looking after it constantly printing it unreliably and slowly made me throw money to Prusa MK3 and boy I was glad I did. Now all of the sudden I could just get into designing and just putting the printer on. I've literally had almost couple crashes on MK3 using it via octoprint and forgetting that I hadn't removed previous print. Also multiple times after like hour of printing have gotten "oh sh.. I put it on but have forgotten to check it out once". All and I do mean all failed prints have been user errors like wrong filament or plate in machine with wrong profile. Bambu looks good, but I'm not yet convinced how good they are. I'll likely get mk4 as I expect same reliability from it as mk3. Maybe in future I'll check competitors, but I also got Ender 3 v2 out of curiosity, cause it was said by some to be mk3 killers. Now I've laughed to this claim multiple times. Sure it "works" and is incredibly better than A6 for instance, but I almost immeadiately modded it with second stepper from disassembed A6 btw and put bltouch to make it nicer to use with magnetic sheets. Still it lacks filament detection, speed etc. and has been mostly standing still in garage. Not even close to being mk3 killer even after few mods. Prusa. It just works so damn well and reliably.

@acolombo

Жыл бұрын

That sounds a lot like people getting a $100 Android phone, then getting a $1000 iPhone and being surprised how well it works. Then they become an Apple fan-boy and shit on the Android phones.

An honest person discloses their biases and tries to compensate for them. This is an excellent, honest review and I think you made an excellent point that buying a 3D printer is like buying a car - you are buying a tool, but you're also buying into the brand image, the ethos, and the ecosystem.

I'd frame the open source issue differently. The bambu won't have spare parts at some point, parts are glued in, and the community will dry up as soon as the next thing happens. Open source ensures machine longevity, upgrade kits aside, the community will come up with a lot of support for the mk4 which will keep it updated and in good working order longer than the x1

@wfpnknw32

Жыл бұрын

but that's not the case in almost any other industry. Hardware innovations almost always start with hobbyist development then as soon as professional proprietary companies get involved then the quality jumps up massively because they can invest in research knowing they'll be able to make their money back. 3d printing has had alot of innovations but it's still in it's infancy. It takes hours to print something, materials are far inferior to injection made parts mechanically even with superior geometry. They're also unreliable despite being They're also unreliable (how many times have you had to clean out the cylinders of your car despite it being infinitely more complex and having more varied usage. We still use a 2 axis printing system with one print head because we're not able to scan the part in real time. Saying diy is working fine why get professional is like saying what's wrong with the apple 2 we can just make new peripherals. The fundamental tech is still basic we cant rely on the 7 year prusa product cycle to fix this.

@meikgeik

Жыл бұрын

This is the most often overlooked point for the Bambulabs printers. I don't understand why no one is talking about this.

@JoeWayne84

Жыл бұрын

The market has never came to The rescue when a manufacturer stops producing replacement parts!!! 🙄 Pretending you won’t be able to keep a bamboo labs printer working due to Bamboo labs not open sourcing there machine is a bullshit . Just admit the surpassed Prusa in there first attempt and a year later what did Prusa give us … A upgraded mk3 . Prusa needs to get off of there ass and work with Voron community on a actual modern printer a plus $1,000 bed slinger in 2023 is embarrassing.

@ernestryles

Жыл бұрын

@@meikgeik because it’s a moot point.

@nils1953

Жыл бұрын

​@@meikgeik because it's just not true. With the amount of units shipped the only problem I see are with the Software slicer Integration that could become outdated in a few years. Other than that, you'll always find replacement parts, even of not OEM, simply because of the amount of units sold. 3rd party sellers can always produce replacement parts if even if the product is not open source... Especially because there are no patents on the product. You can already get quite a few third party products for the X1. I am sure if BambuLab were to stop selling replacements or increase the price significantly, other vendors will pop up.

the load sensor and the quiet fans blew me away. those are some really nice additions

Bambu . I got mine yesterday and i am happy with it

I truly worry about damage to the printbed using the nozzle probing, but I guess many set-ups have done this for a while, so I trust they know what they are doing. They did talk about using the loadcell to determine clogging and skipping.

@2011dtish21

Жыл бұрын

That was my concern as well, but then I watched a video of someone getting a perfect first layer on cardboard with the MK4. The trigger force would have to be imperceptible to do that, so there is likely no risk of damage to the buildplate.

@kilianlindlbauer8277

Жыл бұрын

Typically the load cell of any nozzle probing system trigger at the force of few grams and tge nozzle is also only pre heated to 140 to 150 degrees, so it shouldn't be much of an issue. The most demanding nozzle probing system is voron tap, the force is tge toolhead weight plus tge force of the retaining magnets. This goes even so far that you have to use the aluminium extrusion and cant use a lightweight aluminium x axis and tge 350mm size is generally a bit sketchy. I mean around 600 or even 700 gramms pushing down during probing can slightly deform the x axis, bed mount (trident) or even the bed itself

@heavyweather

Жыл бұрын

Might take some years till they implement anything more useful like clogging detection.

This was the review ive been waiting for. I trust and respect your insights more than others as you are practical and focus on results not just specs or fads. I thought id only buy a core xy printer but despite the negatives, its probably better to buy the open source and proven reliable Prusa as opposed to here today gone tomorrow chinese brands without the same level of commitment to rigorous testing and support. Ok so i need to buy an enclosure with filter and poasibly the MMU3 or mosaic palette when that need arises. Still i feel better supporting Prusa who makes the printers in Europe with a majority of non chinese parts, while getting a rock solid printer that should deliver great results for a long time.

I bought a X1C recently. I have never printed a part in my life before that. The 1st day I was printing quality parts and 3 weeks later I have produced so many parts with barely any failures. ITs just an incredible printer!

I hav e never owned a Prusa, though I have always wanted one. Despite no personal experience, I still agree with your analysis that Prusa has earned a significant place int he market and their long term track record leaves me no doubts that they will continue to be important. The P1P is very tempting, and yet, were I to buy another FDM printer, it would almost certainly be the MK4.

Like the video and you bring up the most salient points I feel. Love my x1 love my mk3 but with the huge upgrade price to the mk4 I cannot justify it. In fact since I got the x1 I have used none of my other printers at all. For me a big difference is the c1 is fully enclosed so you can print anything, yes you can buy a Prusa enclosure but that too is very expensive, very expensive and I just cannot afford it. Prusa has done so much but this mk4 feels like a rush job to me, a result of them not innovating at all for years and suddenly panicking when Bambulab appears. Hence it being released without all the upgrades actually being supported.

@jothain

Жыл бұрын

I built ages ago IKEA lack closure for my A6 where MK3 has now been sitting for years. I just sometime ago checked Prusa enclosure if I would upgrade, but it's indeed way too high priced for what it is imo.

I think you summed up the issue when you said "The MK4 is the iteration everyone was hoping for." I think the industry needs evolution and not iteration to move forward. There is no doubt that Prusa makes quality and reliable machines but they are essentially resting on their laurels. Companies like Bambu that are taking a clean sheet approach will take us into the future of 3d printing. (Keep in mind that the X1/P1P are not even Bambu's design intent and simply a stop gap to generate income while they continue to reach towards their goals) Machines like the Prusa MK4 still have a place in the world but that place is getting smaller everyday.

I think you did a great job as always being objective and fair in your assessment. Its always fascinating to me as a consumer how different our expectations and priorities are as compared to as a business. I can fully appreciate that Prusa as a business needed to get this product shipping even though its feature set wasn't fully complete. As a customer I wish that wasn't the case but if Prusa has proven one thing over the years its that they will indeed continue to improve and support this machine long term and that has massive long term value we don't always consider as consumers. It is nice to know this is only the beginning and the product will continue to get better.

This is the best comparison yet! But I think you might have started out with a review of the MK4, but then pivoted to a comparison, and then left out many comparison topics. But still this is an excellent video and very truthful, and you have the right amount of hope and frustration around the current MK4 late release and the upcoming features. Could you please do another video and discuss these comparison issues? - Noise level comparison - Issues with the Bambu communicating with China - The support experience for each and fixing problems and getting parts - Color printing with the upcoming MK4/MMU3 from what we know now since you mentioned the AMS - Touchscreen customization possibilities on the MK4 - Modding and printer upgrade possibilities - Tie in to Printables and access to models from the MK4 screen, and tie in to Prusaslicer

I've been looking at prosumer style printers a bit more lately and I'm not convinced a bed slinger makes much sense at this price point. The fact that Bambu labs' stuff is so proprietary has me leaning toward a Voron or something similar. I'm not buying anything super soon though, so waiting is fine. The new corexy printers from Qidi and Creality look promising. Hopefully we'll see more in this space. Maybe Prusa can do a smaller corexy at some point too.

@testboga5991

Жыл бұрын

Bed slinger works, that's all that counts for me. It's reliable. I don't care if a model prints in one hour or two.

@jabberwocktechnologies

Жыл бұрын

@@testboga5991 For sure. I have a bed slinger. I love it and use it extensively. It's just that if I'm going to drop 1k on a printer, I'd definitely get something else. If Prusa's thing is reliability, they should probably move to a more reliable motion system too. Maybe the idea here was backwards compatibility, but the upgrade kit costs almost as much as a new printer, so that doesn't really make sense.

@joegf1739

Жыл бұрын

@@jabberwocktechnologies What's unreliable about Prusa's motion system?

@jabberwocktechnologies

Жыл бұрын

@@joegf1739 z wobble for tall parts and shaking the part loose from the bed are fairly common issues. Most of my print fails right now are because of failed bed adhesion. Slant3d did a more detailed video on all the issues with bed slingers recently. They're still a very successful and effective budget design, but if you're going to put more money into the printer to get better quality and reliability, getting a bed slinger doesn't make as much sense.

@Alex-kr7zr

8 ай бұрын

@@jabberwocktechnologies Bad bed adhesion is a matter of bed levelling for the most part and choosing the correct print plate for the material. " better quality and reliability" isn't granted by CoreXY, there are plenty of bad CoreXY printers out there and once you add direct drive extruder most of the advantages of CoreXY are gone. CoreXY in 3d printing mostly works by "cutting corners" in terms of being able to ignore basic laws of motion dynamics because the print head is so lightweight (read the source code of the old Ultimakers for example, and you'll know what I mean). The bedslinger actually forces the engineers to build a better product adhering to basic laws of physics and motion dynamics right from the get-go.

Thank you for this review. It tackled many of the questions that have been circulating in my mind since the MK4 announcement. I love my MK3--it has served me so much better than my previous printers, but I have grown a bit frustrated by it at times. For example, the few seconds it takes to sort files each time I load the SD card is small, but it adds up. The MK4 looked amazing at launch with the new board, input shaping (I am grateful that you pointed out it doesn't have that yet), and the perfect first layer with the Nextruder, but I have also had a hard time justifying the expenses to myself when it is still a bedslinger. How much money do I want to put into a MK4 when the X1C looks so enticing? I think the best thing for me to do now, though, is wait for Prusa to step up the firmware side of things.

@matic785

Жыл бұрын

The deciding factor for me was noise. I went with p1p, but it is loudddd!!! That's fine for me or people with dedicated spaces for a printer. But I can't imagine working in the same room as you can with prusa. :)

@andrewglick6279

Жыл бұрын

@@matic785 try sleeping next to it 🙃 Noise aside, it heats up my room so much. Edit: misread the comment. I can't imagine sleeping next to the p1p.

@matic785

Жыл бұрын

@Andrew Glick LOL did that when I first built a printer. I imagined more of a office environment. I remember few years ago a team that stayed in our office for few days had Prusa mini with them. And it was printing all day and didn't bother anyone, it was so quiet! Can't imagine that with many other printers 😅

@Rick-vm8bl

Жыл бұрын

@@andrewglick6279 TBF you really shouldn't be sleeping or working next to ANY 3d printer. Even if you only print PLA it still puts out some pretty harmful VOCs, and yes, even with an enclosure.

@jamesharris9894

Жыл бұрын

the deciding factor for me was 1 part ever 2 days or 2 per day

I've done over 165 days of printing on my Mk3, over 4000 hours, I have only just replaces the steel print bed sheet, apart from that totally maintenance free and it runs like a boss

Thank you very much for your honest review. I've tested the Bamu Lab Carbon X1 for 3 weeks. But I decided to buy the upgrade kit for my MK3S to a MK3.5 and an editional MK4 kit version. I might pull the trigger if Bambu Lab decides to come out with a bigger build volume. I still have my Craftbot 3 which has a huge print volume. But unfortunately it's not enclosed.

Lots of good points - pro and con. This is why I really want to see reviews on the XL before I complete my purchase. After purchasing both the Bambu X1 and P1P and building two Rat Rigs, I would really like a printer that is reliable and has a good multi material system

@ZachLayne

Жыл бұрын

Did you get the X1 with their multi color system? Do you have reliability issues in general or with the color changing?

@woodwaker1

Жыл бұрын

@@ZachLayne I did get it with the AMS. It is probably as reliable as any system on the market. My problem is with so many spools not fitting correctly. I have built a re-winder and am transferring to the correct size spools. If it does not feed correctly you will get a message and can correct the problem and resume. It works, but is slow and seems to waste a lot of filament with each change. I try to keep my changes to a minimum. Here is a video of mine working kzread.info/dash/bejne/iWhm3JJud663ldY.html&ab_channel=DavidWilson

Bambu 100% Prusa is for the nostalgic.

Great video, very good analysis of the pros and cons. Danke Stefan

I bought an early Mk2, waited months for it. Made the 2.5 upgrade and it's only now starting to age. Yes I have done bearings, rods, nozzles and such but now the wear and tear on the other parts is making me look for a new machine. I do like the Bambu offerings buuuut.... the Mk4 is fast enough for my needs. The input shaping, full enclosure and seemingly better multi material.... hmm gonna be a tough choice for me to make. I have had other brand bed slingers as a second printer and always come back to my Prusa and sold the other printer. It's been so trusty for me I often don't watch it even start to print, let alone check the first layer is done. That trust in my printer is well earned.

I love my Prusa Mk3s+ it just works. No clogs, no misprints. No headaches. I have a load of creality printers that I feel sometimes is a waste of space. I use them when I need to print something larger. Otherwise it’s the Prusa. It just works.

I like the bamboo labs machine, but the cloud requirement is a deal breaker for me. I'll likely be buying the 3.9 upgrade for my mk3 clone.

@blackstoneriverworkshop7167

Жыл бұрын

people keep telling me you can offline it

@arthurcarre1393

Жыл бұрын

You can use it offline as long as you don't mind using a micro SD to transfer. It's pretty annoying to take in and out, but it does work.

@Flashbang_Photo

Жыл бұрын

@@arthurcarre1393 I guess a wireless card would eliminate all of the hassle?

@blackstoneriverworkshop7167

Жыл бұрын

@@Flashbang_Photo Would be cool if it did

This video sold me on the Bambu Lab X-1 Carbon

Excellent video. In the near future I will be buying either an Mk4, BL X1 or maybe a QIDI X-plus 3 but I am so lost at the moment that I may delay for a while longer. Each time I think I have selected one I read something that makes me change my mind.

I had quiet a few printers and got a Bambu X1C in January. The Prusas are nice, but I‘m not spending over 1k for a printer made of printed parts. The Bambu runs since 4 monthes now and just delivers great results. Dont want to miss the AMS which allows multi material or/and color prints. For example for perfect supports with a different material as contact layer.

I think Prusa adds a lot to the community and it is worth supporting Prusa. It is great you do give your honest opinion about the machine - though it is very evident you are on Prusa's side. All that being said I am not super impressed by 5 years innovation, especially on the softwareside. I have ordered a mk4 kit, but instead of upgrading my mk3s+ farm I am experimenting with 0.9 motors and Duet boards for better print quality. I would seriously consider Bambulab or maybe even Creality k1 if it wasn't for their closed nature. Come on Bambulab non serviceable rods!

@MrPanaramuh

Жыл бұрын

Someone I know had to order a set and they were only $100 and some change for the pair which isn't bad considering. Everything is serviceable...just matters how much you care to try.

I really like your objectivity... I'm one of those who are very happy about the (open) work that prusa does for the community but is driven away by the price tags although I could afford it... I feel a little bad about that but not enough to buy a prusa ;-) but it's great that they still know how to make convincing new hardware :-)

10:17 the bamboo labs print looks like it’s moulded 👌

Thank you a good unbiased review. I think the Mk4 is the better printer in the long run due to the support, the open-source design, the firmware upgrades, the nozzle quick swap, and simpler design. While the X1 price is hard to beat, I do wonder how long these pre-built CoreXYs will fair after a few years. I wouldn't be surprised if several of them fail prematurely.

@youeatthemtheydie

Жыл бұрын

Stefan raises a great point about Bambu that it is unclear in what working conditions these machines are manufactured. Also, if Bambu really follows the business model of Tesla where they dump money into technology and then sell their machined with almost no profit only to secure their place in the market, I'm afraid to think what it's going to be like years later when the investments run out. I mean, now it is definitely a snatch and if you want a really good machine at ridiculously low price, but I am concerned that this way Bambu is going to push some good brands out of the market just to then become same crapy unreliable brand as many others. That's why I still bought Prusa just recently. That and because I fix 3D printers at work and I don't need one more at home constantly needing my service.

@Theeslickness

Жыл бұрын

@@youeatthemtheydie I agree except comparing it to Tesla. Tesla is the most profitable car company. Probably due to no advertising and dealerships. But yes I'm worried Bambu is going to kill much needed business with these machines. Prusa however will likely keep on going thanks to their innovations to FDM. Bambu didn't innovate, they just got community innovation to market faster than anyone.

Finally a review that is not just comparing $$$ per print speed. Bambulabs is a nice machine, but the open source character and the Prusa long term support are worth paying the 'first world country production rates.' tax. However Bambu provided a much needed kick to Prusa to innovate. Especially the MMU is too finicky to work with and needs improvement.

Built many MK's -> Now own an X1C , put over 1000 hours already into this printer and Ive not had to fix anything at all on this printer or take it apart. I was worried with the AMS the bambu would run into headaches and be a headache if it breaks. The X1C with multiple filament colors, just RUNS .. truly a PRESS AND PLAY machine. You have to do very little with it but load filament. Everything about the X1C is pure joy when it comes to 3D printing.

Hi firstly im from Czech Republic and my MK2 has more then 1000 days printing time. Still when i was troubleshooting one print last year, the servise guy spend with me 3 hours on chat to help me. And we solve it. Im of course Prusa fun because i bought mine when there where 8 employs, but honestly the support, help and reliability is the best i ever saw anywhere.

Great review. Really appreciate the Bambu comparison. After owning a Prusa Mk3 for years, it’s the long term support and leading designing/development that I care about. It’s a workhorse. I care more about reliability over a long term than cutting edge features or speed. But you did a great job laying those trade offs out in your video so I can decide! Thanks again!

Also if you want something fast, get a VORON, HevORT, or RatRig. They can make the *bambu lab* look slow, and are Open Source!

@BeefIngot

Жыл бұрын

Actually Vorons and Ratrigs are slower. The Hevort though is a beast

I have a Prusa 2.5S (printing right now) which I got in 2017. Also a MK 3S (Bear mod). Prusa customer service and updates make it my go machine.

Fantastic information! All great points. Thanks.

Balanced and entirely fair review, cheers. I'm quite satisfied with my MK3S+ and don't see myself wanting the upgrade anytime soon. I'd already committed to building a Voron 2.4 this year, and the parts were on order at the time the MK4 was announced. So yeah, I'll build my Voron to be a reliable workhorse, and probably give tutoring sessions to students at my local University on the MK3S+.

PRO TIP! If you DO buy Bambu, save $700 and buy the P1S. Allow me to explain, it has EVERY feature the P1P has plus about $200 of additional parts + enclosure, etc, YET it only costs $100 more than the P1P. You can manually upgrade the P1S to the X1 with less than $200, the ONLY thing you will not have is the larger LCD screen but if your going to use the PC or your Phone to print, does that matter? The P1S screen IS MORE than enough and works great! I honestly think you should NOT buy a Bambu unless you have $300 extra for the AMS though, it makes quality of life x100000000 better. You can print multiple colors, have it switch to special support materials that break away easy, and you can use up spools ENTIRELY and the system switches to a new spool on-the-fly. It's absolutely amazing! Did I mention it dries AND stores 4-fullsize filament spools automatically for you? Yea, insane. Sorry but Prusa has absolutely NOTHING on Bambu right now. If that Prusa was CORE-X-Y with Carbon Rods, had an enclosure, it would cost another $500 making it a horrible value proposition. Not to mention that, the Bambu Printers are about 40% faster than Prusa's MK4 and thats quite a large marigin. They both auto-level and track from the nozzle too so thats just another advantage the Mk4 - DOES NOT - have over Bambu. The Bambu has no weaknesses and offers more than any other printer on the market for it's price. I'm not happy their not open source, but o'well. Bambu has their hooks in me, and I will NEVER touch another Prusa or Creality printer again.

I am new to 3d printing. Yesterday, my i3 MK3S+ jammed somewhere in the hot end. Couldn't get filament loaded or unloaded. But, since I built it from a kit, I was virtually certain I could fix it. It took a little while to realize I was going to have to remove the hot end and pull out the PTFE tube. For reasons I don't know yet the filament was jammed tight in there. Anyhow, machine fixed and printing behind me. No packing off to some place and getting it back 2 weeks later, etc. Oh, the online directions were 99% percent correct, too. And since Prusa supports comments, the answer was right in the comments, I just failed to read them til after I figured out the answer 🙂 So, yes, Prusa.

After toying with 3d printers for over a decade I decided to go with prusa. And the support plus the reliability they provided will likely make me stay for a little longer. Maybe on my next splurge I will experiment with another brand. All a hobby still for me though no financial interests.

The only practical reason I can give to pick the prusa over a BL printer is customer support. I have a BL printer and I'm dealing with their customer support right now and it's not great. Bo really needs to make sure they up their support game otherwise they're going to lose out to other brands long-term.

@ulforcemegamon3094

Жыл бұрын

Yeah , BL support is not that great , they need to improve in that aspect

I'm really torn between the two, I'm in the market for a new printer, I've had a original i3 clone for years but looking for something newer particularly for bed levelling and print quality improvements over my current unit. On the X1, I love the multi-material option and how they've created such a smart and integrated system with the spool holder on the top and a nice enclosure and screen, and also love the lidar AI features too. What I dislike is that it's a closed ecosystem with no ability for upgrades or customising. For the Mk4, I love the whole Prusa ecosystem and community, open source nature and ability to add and customise parts of the printer over time and perform upgrades. I'm really torn between the two, but I think I'll end up getting the MK4

@bixenbaer

4 ай бұрын

Depending on where you‘re from you also support a product from the EU. This was one of my biggest reasons to buy a Prusa where at least some stuff does not come from China.

@rfitzgerald2004

4 ай бұрын

@@bixenbaer I'm in UK so although no longer in Europe, I appreciate the quality of European goods. At the moment given the price I may end up waiting for the MK4 to start showing up pre-owned, by that point hopefully the MMU3 will be released for it as well, I think the Mk4 will be my end-goal device but I'm now considering a Bambu A1 as a stop-gap until then given UK stock (no import duty) and much lower price and then upgrade to the MK4 some time in the future.

Very well done review, thank you!