We had a MWAS freedom turbine for a off grid client that didn't produce any usable power until we changed the blades from 9 down to 5 blades. This was something we learned that just because the blades are turning in low wind it doesn't always result in usable production over time. Great video the information about wind turbines that's not talked about or understood by most.

More blades means lower cut-in. It depends on how much wind you get. If you consistently get a lot of wind, stick with a 3-blade. But if you don't? Go with 5 or more... I think the overall gain in lower winds, which most have more often, is worth any loss in higher ones.

Great lecture on wind power, thank you

The problem here is that with 3 blades most ista breeze don' t even start rotating till the wind is 7m/s and to start producing just a bit of power they need 9m/s due to their extremelly inefficient blades. Ista breeze only works in hurtican wind conditions. Most chinese wind turbine start rotating 3m/s and generating some power 4m/s. I have had 3 chinese wind turbines and one day some guys with their videos convinced me to buy an ista cheese. Completely waste of time and money. Thanks guys. By the way, the i1500 and i2000 power curve, according to the manufacturer, these 2 models, produce 300W at 6m/s wind speed, but the truth is that they don't even start rotating at that wind speed

very good explaination !!!

Im hoping my 5 blade with stay in rotation naking it easier to get up to a producing speed. Ive seen how they can have wind that could produce but with moments of under wind they stop spinning till they have a small amount of over wind to start them back up.

Great video!

With my i-1500-24v, I was'nt happy with the cut in speed using 3 blades. So I changed to 5 blades. This got me an earlier cut in but noticeably less power overall. And the turbine seemed to "wall-out" at around 400-500watts with a fairly loud fluttering/flapping noise, after which it seemed reluctant to increase speed and power. So......I changed back to 3 blades but then ran into a 12v battery bank instead. Presto! - similarly low cut in speed but this time rapid power pickup and eager progression up to 400-600w in 15-ish winds with peaks of 900w at 20ish mph which I'm really happy with. So, for my wind conditions reducing the battery voltage gave a better result than buying a 5 blade arbor+5 props. Really surprised that I'm not losing more power given I'm runninng at half the rated voltage. 3 blades is where it's at!

It seems as tho the pitch, width, length, would all come into play just as much or more than the number of blades. I'd think that the solar wind farms have it down to a science but I don't see their math working on a smaller scale. Maybe if one could be designed that used a electric fan clutch like on a big diesel engine then it could be engaged and disengaged at different speeds. Or even a clutch type deal on a go-cart even. I'm so curious and wanting to build my first but I'm thinking a off the shelf kit might be best to get me started in this venture to add to my solar stuff

@ToysforWatts

9 ай бұрын

Length of the blade is discussed, the longer the blade the higher the TSR and the higher the TSR the faster the sooner the blade will lose efficiency. Width and pitch affect how the blade starts up and change the performance curve of the turbine, but that's also in the equation...all the variables of the blade equal a result, it's math. A+B+C=D. If you alter A, B, and C in the correct ways you still get D.

Bro I've gotten all into solar over the last couple years spending over 30 grand on it qnd that's alot of money to me. I'm super interested in wind now and you have educated yourself alot I can tell by this video. I'd love to bounce q couple ideas off of you and see what you think

Very good explanation, but you missed a tiny detail that also affects efficiency. Every set of blades is optimized for a certain tip speed ratio and for every tip speed ration there is a percentage of frontal blade area that should cover up the rotor circle. If you add more blades of the same type it will just cover up too much of the circle and prevent the wind from flowing properly through the turbine, slowing it down and degrading efficiency. By putting on less than the optimal number of blades you are actually not catching all the available wind and some of it flows through the turbine without doing any work, also reducing efficiency. This of course assumes that the blades are actually optimized for their tip speed ratio, which I have my doubts about with some chinese turbines.

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

I talked about TSR in some of my drafts but then it required me to get into a couple other details like your explanation of surface area within swept area...those "quick simple" videos kept ending up at 25 minutes or 45 minutes or even an hour. Surface area to swept area could be a 10 to 20 minute video all by itself

@tyoungs61

Жыл бұрын

@@ToysforWatts Sounds like a quick TSR video ready-made, just need to edit and post.

Am I correct in thinking, The air at sea level is more dense than at 5k feet so there is more power at sea level for any given air (wind) speed? Thank you.

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

It's a double edge sword! My understanding is that you are correct that the air at sea level is denser so there's more potential power in it, but it's more turbulent and erratic which makes it hard for turbines to track and spool properly. It's one reason why off shore turbines tend to outperform their land-based counterparts...without buildings and hills and trees and such they get more stable wind in a denser (energy rich) environment. Now, I do have to say that I struggle a little with this mentally because my brain tells me that it takes a finite force to move a finite number of air molecules at a given speed...which would mean that for wind to be blowing 20mph the leading edge would be the same density no matter what altitude. I'm told this is flawed thinking but no one has ever been able to provide an explanation why it's flawed with any more authority than "because it is". I can say, though, with the micro turbines I normally deal with the energy potential is so small that air density at sea level versus 10000ft is negligible...so it hasn't been an area I've explored much.

Been thinking about the 5 blade kit for the instabreeze apparently 60% more output

@stephenmcdaid8670

8 ай бұрын

I'm thinking of buying the istabreeze i2000 3 blade carbon

Mine has three. It's going to be fine. I'm working on the pole tomorrow. I got a 600 watts model. It will be 19 feet up, fastened to the peak of the barn. I just got a 1 7/8" pipe. I figure to get 350 watts some of the time. I should have it up by Saturday. I plan to treat the blades with Armor All to make them more slippery.

@jonanderson4280

7 ай бұрын

Would you be kind enough to give us the updates for your setup?

@davidpotter9462

7 ай бұрын

It's making 150 watts at the moment

@davidpotter9462

7 ай бұрын

In a gust it's going to 400 watts

@davidpotter9462

7 ай бұрын

@@jonanderson4280 it's only 16 feet, because of lightning ⚡ danger

Would you recommend the i2000

@ToysforWatts

7 ай бұрын

Yes I would. I believe that the i1500/2000 is the best wattage per dollar you can get, both are fairly rugged and simple machines.

I posted a short video of mine spinning...tell me if you think it's going fast enough

I set up a six blader. One positive was it was easy to balance. Select the closest blade weights and install each matched pair at 180 degrees. Also the upper speed limits need to be matched to turbine and load. The inefficiency may be a good thing as you know you have other speed controlling devices and tilting turbine etc. If the inefficency cuts in at above max power maybe that's a good thing?

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

If best efficiency happens before rated power then it's the RIGHT thing.

Thanks for explaining that I got five blaze to take off of my 10 blade turbine never had anyone explain like that I only been getting 3 to 5 amps some time 10 in 35mph wind 2 to 3 amps in 10 to 20mph wind it's at least a 3000watt turbine axle flux home made with over 7ft blade

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

Ten blades is certainly a lot of blades! All of the axial flux turbines I've dealt with were still fairly high RPM generators, though if you built it yourself you should be able to do the calculations based on wire and coil size to see exactly where your RPM needs to be.

@thomasmoore4576

Жыл бұрын

@@ToysforWatts at 60rpm it puts out 12.5v the 9 coils are 16ga.at 75 turns on 12 inch diameter with 24 neodymium 1'x2'x1/2 have bench test over 200v at hi rpm so know it'll do better than it is doing now I put more blade for lower wind thinking I will get more power but I guess not thanks for letting us know I will give you updates on how it goes

I have one with 4 blades, same blade like yours :)

Professor Toys

Thank you. I understand what your saying but why is 4 blades not an option?

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

Four blades is more complex mechanically and offers more wind resistance while not providing a significant enough increase in harvesting power. The idea is to have as few blades as necessary to do the work, which tends to be three. Four CAN do the work, but at greater cost and weight.

@punkridge

2 ай бұрын

Odd number of blades like 3, 5, 7 are easier to get going and slower to come to a complete halt than Even number of blades. With Even number of blades, the wind has to overcome the forces of balance between the opposing blades. With Odd number of blades, there is no opposing blade to fight against.

Great video.I have swapped my 3 blades for 5.In a low wind situation it would appear that 5 blades will give more overall output,I have read 60%.One size or blade number doesn't suit all wind conditions so it's all about finding a good compromise.The engineering with Rosie channel gives a really good academic analysis of optimum blade number .There is a whole field of science and it's fascinating but mind blowing! Pun intended

@Parafiestas

Жыл бұрын

So, in your conditions, the 5 blade was more productive compared to the 3blades before?

@stevehampson2847

Жыл бұрын

The 5 blade will generate at a lower wind speed compared to the 3.,but the 3 blade will generate more energy in a higher wind than 5.The 5 blade is designed and sold as suitable for low wind situation.Istabreeze is the manufacturer

Should they be longer for more torque in low winds?

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

One of the benefits of having fewer blades is that that they can be longer and reach a higher RPM (assuming all else remains the same). If you're not careful, though, you can run faster than your blades can structurally handle...that's a limiting factor I didn't touch on because most shelf-bought blades will be very hard to destroy through over-speeding them, it is certainly a possibility. In general, though, yes...increasing the blade length will increase your maximum power potential. It's a matter of balance, though...longer blades means a higher mean higher TSR, and if you get your TSR high enough you start negating the benefit of keeping the blade count low.

@Orbacron

Жыл бұрын

@@ToysforWatts I think the wind farms have adjustable rotors, and they adjust them to turn slower in high wind, I could be wrong though. I have seen single units with still blades when they are under maintenance or out of service when I drove by

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

Yes large commercial turbines have variable pitch blades, but it's not to regulate speed in high wind...they can, to a certain degree, but generally they pitch out with the turbine is off. It's more of a braking mechanism because no mechanical brake could possible stop one of them in a gale. Clarifying ~ Commercial turbines can adjust their pitch to maintain RPM, and they do, but the variations are rather small in respect to the size of the machine. They can adjust for only a certain range of wind speed before it's better to pitch completely out of the wind and wait for things to calm down.

been getting into wind for a while. theres a whole range of topics here you brush on but dont get into. most people simply dont even realise what im about to say here... so, lets keep it as simple as possible... the generators... their output is limited. once they reach that peak speed, any faster, and you cant slow the turbine down whilst "generating" more. and the power there just keeps rising... instead, we apply a brake. yet a large enough generator IS a brake... more on that later. then. a battery in charge can only absorb so much power. it has a voltage required to deliver a given charge current. if you play around with a load resistor instead of a battery, you find you CAN pull the rated powers out. at lower voltages than the batteries can charge at. its EIR, but its backwards. the power is limited in what resistance it can deliver into, rather than the resistance limiting the power supply. does that make sense? what you read on the meter on teh charger isnt what you can generate. its what you could absorb. big difference. ie, the batteries want say, 14.4V to charge, minimum.. if you try to push more than 14.4V into them, they charge with more current, lifting to say, 14.6V. as long as the supply can deliver this current at this voltage, its all good, you use a resistor to LIMIT the power. but the turbine? its dinky little PM generator cant deliver that current and the voltage sags. at 15v, it can deliver say, 15A, into 1R. for 225W. the resistor dissipates 225W, the generator delivers that much and no more. at 0r8, it might sag the voltage down to 14V. 17.5A. and thats 245 W being dissipated by the resistor. at 0r5, it might drop down to 13.5v... for 27A. and thats 364W in the resistor. meanwhile... the generator and its windings are getting hot! they also have 27A in them... and then, at 0R4, it drops to 13v, tries pulling 32.5A, 422W, the generator overloads, that overloads the turbine, and then the voltage and the current plummets as the turbine stalls out. or, the generator doesnt stall out, the turbine overpowers it, and then the generator starts getting REALLY HOT as it has 32.5A in it... replace resistor with battery? you need the 15v at the batteries to get them to suck down 17.5A of charge current. but when you do that it sags and the batteries cant take 17.5A anymore... it sits somewhere around 14.4V and says "nope". if the batteries would charge at 13.5V? wow. you would have absolutely no issues. they dont. batteries are stupid. stuck in the rut, dead end. supporting CEOs of big multinationals. oil companies? who owns LG and samsung and panasonic? give up on batteries and inverters. can you repair them in the dark with a screwdriver and a hammer? so. forget everything you have learnt. but remember to remember all of it, and then cherry pick as you decide whats worth remembering. we have been systematically trained to think of only one or two options, only one or two parts of the puzzle, focus on the wrong aspects... yet we have been taught all the answers, if we listened. ok, tinfoil hats jammed on firmly, lets continue... go back to what a generator IS. the very basic? lenz reaction. drop a magnet down a pipe. theres every generator in overload... cut a slit down the pipe. no lenz reaction. replace pipe with coil of wire. leave ends unattached. no lenz reaction. short them. lenz reaction. reduced from the original copper pipe as the resistance of that thin wire is increased. keep it shorted, and wack the magnet up and down in the pipe. something going to start getting HOT. you did work, fighting these magnetic fields... but where did it GO? so... you get a generator, you short it out and get a good idea of the full power it can absorb. pretty easy. but then you have to give it a load resistor, so you start with some decades, 10, 1, 0R1, and do the maths. theres a bell curve for the ideal resistance or load for a generator based on its windings. where is the heat being developed, where is the power? in the coil, or in the load? you gotta UNTHINK this stuff. screw the maths. you gotta get the concepts. ok... um... lot of people use BLDCs as generators, make the mistake of thinking the power they can tolerate is the power they can make. nope. as a generator, all they have is the flux of the magnets in them. they are limited by the flux density and RPM and number of conductors. nowhere near the power out as on the label. as a motor, they have a lot more flux in the core due to them being driven with currents. flux density gets to levels unachieved as a generator. nothing gets over the fact that there will always be a limited flux in a PM generator. and that limits the output. you can design a PM to work well, and deliver a lot of power, but it also causes cogging and reduces the lower end performance. whereas an excited alternator gives you a generator that can just keep delivering current as the supply can deliver, and will maintain a constant voltage as required by batteries and the like. until its overloaded. except... the batteries can STILL only accept so much juice in a time period. exceed that, you gotta dump it. and how do you do that? shunting it through a resistor... make heat. charging batteries makes heat. inverters make heat. and then you use that power... to make heat. hmmmm!!!! if, instead of letting turbines overspeed when the going gets too rough... oversize the generator, use it as a brake... and dump all the excess power as heat, designed as the end goal rather than as an insurmountable loss. hot water tanks are cheap, easy to strap together, and well, not so nasty as batteries. what to do with all this heat? iunno! what do nukes and coal stations do? i will say it again. batteries are a dead end. they are the hindrance, the hurdle, the thorn in your eye.

3 to 5 blade problem, they use the same generator. a 5 blade machine needs different winding to take advantage of the lower speed torque etc.

You are making one critical mistake in your calculations!!! When adding blades, IT IS NECESSARY TO REDUCE THE DIAMETER OF THE TURBINE!!!

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

I'll have to rewatch it to make sure I made this point, but I was mainly speaking of purchasing premade blades and in terms of only changing the one variable (blade count). Most manufactured blades do not allow you to adjust TSR without a hacksaw. I do know I made it point to stress that if you change all the variable you can still get an appropriate end result, but that you cannot just change blade count. This video is somewhere around the 30th effort made...a problem I had in creating it is that I kept going off on tangents that I think are important but did not help land the point. My first attempt was over an hour long, a good bit of it was spent along the lines of "however by lower your TSR and using lighter blades you can double the blade count while maintaining maximum potential RPM" and then having to explain that that would also not help lol

@wind-9243

Жыл бұрын

@@ToysforWatts It is necessary not only to shorten the blades, but also to change their geometry, otherwise nothing will work!

What about just 1 blade W a counterweight? I heard that the ideal number of blades is Just 1 For best performance.

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

One blade is actually the most efficient in terms of production...in a driven propeller it's actually the best way to get the most RPM out of an engine...it is unfortunately terrible in literally every other aspect, however...particularly in harmonic balance. Turbines with one blade have been made, they are quite twisty.

@kimmogensen5390

Жыл бұрын

that system was used on airplanes in the 1930,, but i results in a uneven torqe on the hub assembly ,,there is a channel dealing with ww2 fighter planes and such he explanes the blade problem from a different angle, gregs airplanes and automobiles, thats the name

@2davydo

Жыл бұрын

Yeah i guess that they experimented with 1 blade props back in the early days of airplanes with a counterweight with good performance. but i can imagine the counter forces upon the changes in the wind direction and gyroscopic forces if used for wind turbine application.

@andreyatk6277

Жыл бұрын

У меня работает одно лопастной ветряк, успехов вам

Terrific video. Very well explained.

The most efficient prop is a single blade.

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

A single blade has the most potential for efficiency...it's a shame it's bad in every other way.

I politely disagree... Have you forgotten lift on your force diagram? This might be true if your blades do not use lift but drag as the main mover force, I have never done calculations for that. But if your blades do use lift as their main mover force, then the smaller the diameter of the area swept, the higher number of blades you have to use to optimize the output of the WT (Cp). Tests have been done in fact with a turbine having only one blade and one counter weight. I suggest you read "Grid Integration of Wind Energy Conversion Systems" by Siefried Heier. The Betz limit is a consequence of using lift instead of drag as main moving force.

@ToysforWatts

5 ай бұрын

I pointed out in the video that it's all math and that if you're changing multiple criteria of the blade's design then you can achieve the same or better performance with any number of blades. Simply adding a blade while making no other changes will always reduce maximum potential RPM in rated wind. It doesn't matter how the blade is designed.

thank yo

Занимаюсь одно лопастным ветряком, успехов вам, считаю его эффективным по снятию энергии с ветра,у меня есть книга Фатеева про ветроэнергетические установки там все написано.

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

A single blade turbine can certainly be done and it is a really efficient way of extracting power from the wind (or generating thrust with a motor)...the single biggest flaw with a wind turbine is that it puts a very heavy twisting load on the tower. A counterweight can balance the actual rotational stresses, but the wind will act like a lever at the tip of the blade and put a torsional load on the hub. With a small turbine it's not going to be too hard to make the tower strong enough to handle that load, but with a large turbine it can be near impossible.

@andreyatk6277

Жыл бұрын

@@user-yf4nz4ig7x чтобы пользоваться опытом людей подписан на многих, видео однолопастников встречаются на Ютубе, успехов вам

@andreyatk6277

Жыл бұрын

@@ToysforWatts винт крепится как на автожире, на оси,она качается,и лопасть работает под не большим углом к вертикали,она все время балансирует

@andreyatk6277

Жыл бұрын

@@user-yf4nz4ig7x у меня свой путь,свое видение ветроэнергетики

@andreyatk6277

Жыл бұрын

@@user-yf4nz4ig7x да снова лопасть поломало,в этот раз был прямой привод,мотор колесо от гиросутера, нагрузки на лопасть не было,врш все время срабатывал, на Авито купил помощнее мотор колесо,жду когда придет

What's wrong with two blades? You reduce the disruption and also the drag. The force is reduced but not that much. You should compare two and three blade turbines at different wind speeds and loads. Also an arrangement of staggered blades where one does not follow in the same track as the preceding one will reduce the turbulence. There is no reason you cannot stagger the blades along the axis. ..

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

Two blades works and is efficient but is very hard on the tower...they don't yaw well while in operation, requires a much heavier rig to turn and in small applications they track very poorly. A lot of the better two-blade designs have been small downwind style turbines. They have been built, they simply require greater mechanical effort and the whole point is to get the most milk with the least amount of moo. There actually is a reason you can't stagger the blades. You could put blade #2 ahead of blade #1 to keep it out of the wash, and blade #3 ahead of blade #2, but eventually it all comes back around. If you have three blades, blade #3 is going to be very close, if not behind, blade #1. Also there's a mechanical restriction in doing so...it makes the hub far more complex and you would, in a sense, be running multiple single blade rotors in sequence. It would be a complex and high stress system without much gain.

@MrDavePed

Жыл бұрын

@@ToysforWatts Sounds like you've already worked it out. Thanks. I'm still hoping you can check out the Ugrinsky design for the vertical axis turbine as described here: 1755 How To Make A Super Efficient Wind Turbine - The Ugrinsky VAWT Made Easy Thanks.

@MrDavePed

Жыл бұрын

@@user-yf4nz4ig7x Well he claims it is 56% more efficient than other VAWT's and VAWT's do have advantages.

Havent watched it yet but fewer is better. . .also First!

I loved your subliminal shout out to Tesup!!!🤣🤣🤣 Have you seen their new Magnum 5? 5Kw with the same rotor diameter as my Tesup 2400 and your Ista Breeze stuff @ 2.25m. I don't think the Betz Law translates into Turkish!

My ista Breeze i2000 can be ordered as 3 or 5 blades. The blades are the same. This is the first mistake. But the i2000 has a very high start speed. So it depends on the average wind speed. Low 5 blades, high 3. The much more importand thing especially on ista breeze is the right curve setting. And with 5 blades the curve should be 30% higher at same wind. At the end 5 blades have lower turns but the same output and they start earlyer. And a lower TSR make lower noise. So in my opinion and the opinion of my neighbours is lower speed, lower noise, same output.

Isn’t it time for you to build your own 18650 power wall

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

I definitely need a much higher capacity battery bank, but I'm somewhat frightened of dealing with lithium...it doesn't just blow up like lead acid, it might burn my shop down when I get abusive.

@dennydewaal137

Жыл бұрын

@@ToysforWatts it’s still the king of battery’s , and the most energy dens It will last 15 to 20 years easy.. that burning mid is blowen out of proportion. But a metal case over it ( a truck toolbox) , a blowout pipe true the wall . 🫲😑🫱 fuse it up and put a bms on it .. i went true led assid.. AMG.. lifpo4 ☝️that pufs up like 🐡 pufferfish those really suck .. to at last 18650 .. no more bs ever again.. I both 2800 ncr18650bd cells for 0,40 cents a pice.. 10 amp discharge 3,2 amph .. 11,5 wh.. 90% tested above 3,4ah .. build 14 packs of 200 .. a total 33kwh 640ah .. 2000amp discharge rade (you can’t hurt dis)..51,8v nominale.. size of the pack l 15,4xw 15,4xh19,29 inches Building it is super simple And cheap

We hawe software for this in Poland "wiatrak 1.1"

fake news they should have 1 blade and spin sideways not upand down

@forum9919

Жыл бұрын

One blade is possible. With a counterweight on the over side. On KZread are still some working of these...

Well, that's not true... The efficiency comes from the blade design. Plus your aero dynamics theories are way off. Take a look at the C130, prime example. Started off with the 4 blades and everyone could hear it coming. Now the new blade design, NOT the number of blades, The 8 blade design, which is the key factor to efficiency. If you really get into the science of it all. The blades have to be designed for what your working with.

@ToysforWatts

Жыл бұрын

I stated in the video that blades have a fixed efficiency range and do not work well outside of that range.