I disagree greatly with your interpretation of Sahori’s death, it’s one of the Nahobino’s greatest displays of humanity and compassion. Lahmu would never have let Sahori go, so she when she took control for a moment all she could do was give the Nahobino the chance to end her suffering, and before he does he puts an arm around her and hugs her, not letting go until she disappears into magatsuhi. We see he retains his humanity and compassion even after everything that happened, seeing Sahori as a victim and gives her what little comfort he can in her final moments.

@CursedValor

4 ай бұрын

That’s ok I agree it was an act of compassion because I think from start to finish Naho is an incredibly kind person but up the reason I thought his humanity was heavily faded at that time was due to the constant re-iteration that they can save sahori, and in the end Naho seems to completely realise that’s just not possible and stops trying to, where as tao never once thought that way. To me it seems like he’s acting more like aogami at that time, someone who obviously is much more distant from being human. Not saying you’re wrong since SMT is by nature up for interpretation but I’m just expanding my thoughts on that scene a little.

@firerath

4 ай бұрын

@@CursedValorI don't think you're giving Aogami enough credit. He's certainly less human, but he's just as compassionate as the protagonist, it's just filtered through his programming. His connection with the protagonist allows him to question things and doubt himself, and he goes from protecting the protagonist because it's his programming to doing so because he genuinely believes in him. The pair offer their strengths and cover their weaknesses. As for his comment about becoming more concerned with demonic matters than human ones, that's more foreshadowing Dazai's shift than anything. Dazai of everyone has the most dramatic shift, but it's understandable as it's more of him thinking about the bigger picture rather than the smaller one, which is ultimately what seperates everyone from the Nahobino. The allignment reps all have the big ideas, but the Nahobino is able to see the finer details.

I always saw the Nahobino as an anti Demifiend. Demifiend got pushed around by everyone into truly believing he was no longer human, while Nahobino got pushed around by everyone and still managed to retain his humanity throughout the entire story

@IPromiseTomorrow

3 ай бұрын

Nahobino had Aogami who was always supporting him. Which can explain why He's very different in attitude.

@ltb1345

23 күн бұрын

That's also Demi-fiend in the Freedom Ending though.

we are finally going back to the phase where the new SMT game is finally going to be accepted as 'maybe it wasnt bad'. Saw it happen with 4, saw it happen with 4 apocalypse, and i am all here for it again with 5 Love SMT !

@alanlight2715

4 ай бұрын

It always happens. The first few days is "new thing good" and then for a while it's like "new thing awful" and then it goes to"oh wait new thing was always good but has some flaws here and there" (like any piece of media ever. Nothing is flawless) It happens without fail to most oldschool franchises especially niche ones.

@alsaiduq4363

4 ай бұрын

It didn't really happened with SMTIV Apocalypse. People do this day say the story is dogshit while the gameplay is good..

@Zerorenren4761

3 ай бұрын

Can't wait for people to say that SMT V OG was actually better than Vengeance and that the story was actually good all along.

@infamousguy1

2 ай бұрын

​@Zerorenren4761i have the steel case for the og version I look at it as a dark souls version of the game since smtv:v has so many changes

Yuzuru still needed more screentime. We got to work alongside Dazai for half the game, meanwhile the "Chaos Hero" barely appears in the first 2 chapters.

@espurrseyes42

4 ай бұрын

I still don't see how he's the "Chaos Hero", at least while you're still led to believe that the 3rd guy's desire is to destroy the throne, leaving Da'at as is and the false Tokyo fade away. Even with his true motives revealed, nothing about Yuzuru's "bring the world back and let the members of Bethel rule their respective sectors" really screams "Chaos".

@vanilla8956

4 ай бұрын

​​@@espurrseyes42 It's Chaos because it's a world with unrestrained Nahobino and an infinite diversity of viewpoints and ways of life. This gives you freedom of the life you want to seek, but there's no universal moral standard. People with taboo views will be able to make their way of life led by their own Gods, giving them freedom. But all these different nations and Gods will constantly be at war with each other, both cold and hot, making it a world of strife. The real losers in that outcome are people who just want to be normal, and have a world that's stable that they can comfortably conform to. Meanwhile some guy who wants to become a dragon and legalize drunk driving is probably having the time of his life. It's sorta like "Polytheistic Nationalism" which is chaotic

@heribertoesquivel7500

4 ай бұрын

@@espurrseyes42yes, he is not chaos, people are applying smt IV logic to a vastly different game, which is closer to something like nocturne or devil survivor 2 in terms of how it presents its alignment system. Dazai/Abdiel alignment is actually called preservation, while Yuzuru/Tsukuyomi is called reformation. Which are pretty self explanatory. You spend 2/3 of the game literally killing the actual forces of Chaos, Yuzuru involved, he never takes their side. Yet he is being called “chaos” lmao I love smt IV but having so basic alignments really hurt the reading comprehension of many.

@alsaiduq4363

4 ай бұрын

​@heribertoesquivel7500 Yuzuru is Chaos because he's letting everyone control their fates at cost of safety. That's 1:1 of what Chaos does is in most games.

@espurrseyes42

4 ай бұрын

@@alsaiduq4363 What Chaos does in most games is destroy the current system and replace it with Anarchy. "Hurr derr only the strong deserve to live". That kind of stuff. Which is what Yakumo's initial Reason is more inline with before you do all the stuff to reveal his true Reason. Yuzuru's is more inline with a Neutral ending like Isamu's. Minus the whole "everyone gets a world separate from everyone else" part that presumably prevents conflict between people.

This video marks the full cycle of new releases >Game comes out >Garbage >Give it a year or two >Masterpiece

@CursedValor

Ай бұрын

TBF i always liked smt 5 even from release, my favourite in the series right next to smt 3 imo

I hope the rumored mystery PS2 remaster that Atlus is working on is DDS. I would love a HD remaster DDS1+2 collection.

@cabracadabra_4256

4 ай бұрын

Also Raidou would be cool :) Though that's probably harder because Raidou's design is considered controversial.

@LotteYansson

4 ай бұрын

Atlus, a misunderstood genius: Persona 4 Remaster.

@alexandernewkirk6193

4 ай бұрын

I'd rather get a remake / port of SMT 2 finally globally available

This feels more like explaining a headcanon than an analysis tbh.

@b3njiiisjammin608

3 ай бұрын

Yeah It's an interpretation? that's been clear from the beginning.

The game more than any other smt connects you with demons and gives you compasion for them. To then have the true ending forcing you to sacrifice them for humans who have not done anything good for naho

@ltb1345

23 күн бұрын

That's why I chose Chaos.

This is definitely a interesting view which I actually agree for the most part, heck the whole last section is all about Naho learning the ways of a true compassionate ruler. As for Sahori, I think both he being compassionate yet distant are true, he did what was needed to be done, he was becoming closer to the angels at that point (remembering that angels told him that, given the circumstances, he should be prepared to kill humans too, as they do). When he killed her you can feel the pity he felt for her, it was too late, and she was too mentally weak to control “her knowledge” unlike naho… actually knowledge is a big part of the game, it is obviously metaphorical but games goes to great lengths to demostrate what the lack of knowledge does to someone, they become debased, incapable of resisting egotistical urges that hurt others… which is super cool considering it was knowledge that made humans demons in IV, yet here it is treated as sacred, a source of creation, not destruction. SMTV is really one of the most interesting games in the franchise but people are so susceptible to the opinions of others and are so used to the generic structures and stories of regular rpgs that anything trying something different will be treated as lesser.

A banger video to introduce Shin Megami Tensei to the channel and break the cycle of uploading just JJK. Can’t wait to see what u cook up next Valor.

Broke my edging streak

Genuinely, I actually really like your take on the story, and the protagonist especially, for someone to take this from the game when I may not give that to everyone really makes me think you came out with a great experience. I loved the game too and I actually liked what the story gave me but I think in regards to the points you’ve made about the protagonists, such as him being a bit of a loner and his connections, I like what you said and if this was a big focus of character I just don’t think it’s executed properly because he is a silent protagonist for us to project ourselves into. I think with what you said here is great but I think the protagonist would work a lot better if he was a real character with a personality rather than a surrogate character for the player, I think this would help with the relationship between the Nahobino and Aogami too, it would allow for more interesting and in depth character interaction and development for the main character AND for Aoigami. This is of course my subjective take, I’d like to hear if anyone maybe agrees with me or has anything they think would add to the story.

@archiemartin6991

4 ай бұрын

I can’t say I agree with everything you say about the protagonist, but I do think some aspects of what you said of his character could be used to make maybe an alternative story of smt v

A few things, what you're mistaking for "the God of Unity" is actually 合一神, pronounced Japanese as Gouitsujin. 合一神 literally translates to "Unified God" as in a God that has been "unified." It's written like this because the races of demons are written in Kanji in the Japanese version so they used Gouitsujin as the Kanji to represent Nahobino as a race. It does not mean that the Protagonist represents unity or is a god of that ideal, but rather that he and any other Nahobino is born from demon and human being unified. With that said I also need to point out that the true neutral ending isn't dependent on the demi-fiend DLC that you said was a turning point for the route, it's questionable if it's even canon, personally I think it's non canon because it keeps saying the fiends and menorahs have "been summoned from another world." What the true ending is actually dependent on is Naho forming deep bonds with characters like Amanozanko, Fionn, and Khonsu. Helping them find their memories, their purpose in life, and even helping them find true love. …all to genocide them right afterwards? I'm dissapointed you ignored this contradiction because it's very blatant and pokes a large hole in this interpretation. Moreover, you said that this ending is less extremist than Yakumo's goal but in my opinion it's far more extreme. Yakumo is a human supremacist but even he thought it was too far to go through with the extermination of demons because Nuwa is clearly not only his other half, but also his love. This is very clear from how she holds him when he dies, something you don't see for the other two pairs. However, "true ending" Naho on the other hand, does not restrain himself from exterminating Aogami for the sake of human supremacy, which despite his edgy demeanor was way too extreme for Yakumo to stomach. Nuwa just lost her chance at Godhood and the one she loved, so she tells Naho about this option that Yakumo was originally considering before changing his mind, because she feels she has nothing left to lose, and believes in this ideal world now that she's ready to accept her death. But then how can you really claim that Abdiel's attempted execution of the protagonist was where he got the idea for a world for humans only, when that scene is literally the culmination of Koshimizu's plot to humiliate Abdiel and recruit Naho to his Chaos faction? And not only that, but we literally see Nuwa tell the protagonist about the humans only plan, and the game treats it as if it's a genuine suprise to him he hasn't thought of before? It's probably clear I'm very against the true neutral ending personally, but I wouldn't have a problem with an ending I disagree with if it was implemented correctly. I don't like Shijima in Nocturne but I'm glad it's an option. Making it necessary to do multiple side quests that all end with the moral that 'Not all Demons are bad, these ones are your genuine friends' to get the human supremacist ending that genocides them is horribly bad design. The thought process is nothing more than "We have a secret ending so let's lock it behind big late game sidequests we already made." And it's quite literally presented in the story as a last minute idea given to us by Nuwa rather than the culmination of the character's actions throughout the story. You're completely right about Naho's bonds with demons being far stronger than any connection he has been shown to have with humanity, and that he's shown being punished by attempts to have human connection, like when Tao died because he was trying to spare Sahori for her sake. But where's the turn around? Where does this flip completely on it's head and switch into him being a human supremacist who destroys the demons he made bonds with? The Nocturne DLC? Yakumo trying to kill him out of hate and prejudice? Where is it? It's just not there. If you love that ending, that's cool, I can see why someone else would like that outcome even if I disagree, but you have to admit that it wasn't built up to at all, and even the director said that the story was scuffed by development problems. I just think at some point this is going over the line into fan fiction.

@_GLXC

3 ай бұрын

You don't need to do the questlines to get the secret neutral ending. All you need to do is unlock the data of the demons, as this ending is also available in future new game cycles even if you didn't do their quests. While you could try and make the connection as something significant, the story doesn't actually state that, so it's about as correct of an interpretation as drawing together any of the details in this video.

@vanilla8956

3 ай бұрын

@@_GLXC Ah yes, using new game plus features, clearly the intended canon story? SMT is among classic games that are famous for their ability to avoid ludonarrative dissonance by syncing gameplay and story with mechanics like fusion and alignment back in a time where that was uncommon. But even more recent than that just look back at SMT IV. The neutral ending might be a pain to get but the events you needed to encounter on your journey to get that ending are part of the story, we can't pick and choose which mandatory quests are canon or not to curate the story ourselves, that's fanon. Meanwhile there's an unspoken rule in gaming that when you start a new game plus and step into Naraku with max stats and Masakado in your stock then that's clearly not the intended events. Or even simpler, it was built this way on purpose, so it's intentional. That's all there is to it unless there's an unreliable narrator.

@_GLXC

3 ай бұрын

@@vanilla8956 I'm not really arguing in defense of the game. I'm more so pointing out that the story is so vague that you NEED to make stretches in logic to create a narrative. Like those demons' stories are so irrelevant to the narrative of the secret ending that you could come up with a bunch of different reasonings, or just say that there is no real reason and it's just there because they didn't have time to make an actual unlock requrement so the game just checks for a few demons that are hard to get. I get that more should have been expected, especially from the history of the games, but ultimately, your guess and my guess is as good as anybody elses with this game.

@vanilla8956

3 ай бұрын

@@_GLXC Need is a very strong word. Some of us fans feel they need to come up with an explanation to why the baffling story of bayonetta 3 has to be all a dream scenario or something, but in actuality it's something we want, not need. Sometimes canon just sucks, but we have to accept when it sucks rather than act like this video and claim it's all 4D chess that needs the demi fiend DLC to work. It's just hyper-copium

@_GLXC

3 ай бұрын

@@vanilla8956 again, im saying that you can barely consider most assumptions "correct" because they're just guesses that are injected into the story to make things make sense. it's easier to go in with the base assumption that they simply didn't try to make something than to fill in the blanks and then adamantly claim it as "canon". the story never directly connects any of these ideas together as directly influencing eachother, and ultimately its their fault for not explaining anything. thats why I think it's on the same level as any other fanon.

I don't vibe with this analysis, personally because A) they clearly were, at least in part, trying to do a character driven story. Characters like Dazai have too much focus for that to have not been a priority. And B) the main character's outlook is not defined or clearly inferrable. Even in this analysis there are moments where, depending on the player's dialogue choice, the main character could explicitly feel the exact opposite of how you describe. The character is just too much of a blank slate for this analysis to accurately reflect the game's intention, IMO. I do agree that isolation vs union was a clear theme to this game, but you're overselling it a bit.

@Decarabian_Star_

4 ай бұрын

Overanalysed and basing it on assumptions.

@AnakhaSilver

2 ай бұрын

Welcome to SMT. the protag is a vehicle for you to explore your own philosophies and morals, and not much else. Would you say the Demi-Fiend has a personality outside of vaguely sassy in his choices?

I like your take. For some reason people were expecting a bunch of endless dialogue and endless character development. That stuff is not necessary for a good story. The demons that the main character interacts with (especially Abdiel, Nuwa, and that manipulative president dude) are extremely rich and interesting. They also all seem to be lacking in perspective and a bit lost without their matching pair or YTVH ruling with an iron fist. That council scene absolutely blew my mind. I played Persona 3 for the first time, and enjoyed it a lot, but that game just deluges you with endless story in between Tartarus trips. I tend to prefer the balance between story and gameplay in SMT 5 more.

@AnakhaSilver

2 ай бұрын

It's very clear they want SMTV to be Persona 6. This is just... SMT3-2.

I like the interpreting of it as isolation. I could feel the effects of being made to care more about the demon realm instead of the human one on a fundamental level of it being absolutely boring to be with humans

I know I kinda spoiled myself on this now cuz i was gonna wait for the new version but my friends been telling me the story was bad and getting this synopsis/analysis I can’t really see how they can think. I will play the new version and get to my own conclusion anyway.

@abaque24

4 ай бұрын

Its the pacing… and the storytelling. People say it has no story, or a bad story, but what they mean is the ‘narrative is not strong.’ I love the stpry, but the game only shows you the main charcaters perspective. Things happen in other places, but you dont see them, you are only told: ‘this happened’ and if you dont speak to npcs, you wouldnt know something happened at all. I dont think theres anything wrong with that. I think there is a strong theme of ‘isolation’ in the game, and i think there is message of how ‘isolation is not an answer, but a problem you need to deal with’ that comes across through the main quest… and the side quest, IF you choose to not isolate yourself as a charcater, and a player. One of the most main quest bosses is not ‘required’ to finish the game, but the game puts you at the door for you to choose to cross it, or not.

@vanilla8956

4 ай бұрын

No worries, the new game is going to have an entirely new story route and from the trailers it seems it will split early on or at least halfway, so you're fine

@ThePudin124

4 ай бұрын

I actually loved this game and i still think the story is terrible, now personally it does not ruin the game cus its really not very important but there are a couple of times where someone just gives you these huge info dumps after you've been playing for hours with pretty much no to minimal story, it is very odd when it happens. Also I did not like a single character in this game, most of them to me were either cringe, annoying, or underdevoloped.

@vanilla8956

4 ай бұрын

@@ThePudin124 The characters are done poorly but they are cool conceptually. A rogue police officer enforcing his own personal law, the prime minister of japan, Sahori's inner conflict, etc. It's all stuff that a good writer can run with and make an awesome story out of but this story absolutely doesn't.

can we talk about the sound design, the soundtrack ?? A PUNCH IN THE FACE !

I never tought this game story could be so deep, amazing video

SMT V missed the mark on so many things but there was a ton I loved too. I really hope Vengeance fleshes it out a lot.

I always thought that there was something more with the story of SMT5. I always found it interesting that in this game, the main character actually has a reaction to the ending they bring. Chaos and Neutral being interesting as they in essence are pretty similar, but illicit completely different reactions in the main character. Where the Chaos protagonist is sad at the disarray, with Neutral, he suddenly is proud and hopeful and the same thing. It says to me at least that some aspect of their personality is affected by their choices, and using the state of their humanity as the deciding factor is an interesting consideration. Either way, this game is definitely one of the more esoteric stories in the series, with a lot of details that in most games would be forgotten flavor text ending up informing the weight of certain decisions later on.

Can't wait for people to say that "SMT V's original story was way better than Vengeance's new story" soon

@louish5068

3 ай бұрын

I can see myself being one of those people lmao. Vengeance's story looks sick but I actually love the story of V. But I am hopeful that the stories are actually being made to complement each other and that Vengeance will elevate the vanilla story and understanding the vanilla story will elevate Vengeance.

@twincherries6698

2 ай бұрын

Contrarianism knows no bounds

I love this interpretation a lot! I agree with a lot of it but even when i dont agree on stuff like your interpretation of sahori's death i can totally see everything else. Thank you sm for shedding more light on SMT V's story that many dismiss!

I'm sorry, but I can't subscribe to this interpretation. It begins to fall apart with your analysis of Nahobino's killing of Sahori. It is very clearly an act of mercy. He holds Sahori while she dies and she thanks him for finally bringing peace. Second, there's just no textual evidence for the emotions you ascribe to Nahobino. Because Atlus refuses to make an actual protagonist for an SMT game, he's just a blank slate. We never learn how he feels about any given situation. He might as well not think. I still think SMTV's story is better than people give it credit for, but that's due to the superb character work with the Law faction and the more interesting treatment of the Law/Chaos/Neutral dynamic as a whole.

@CursedValor

4 ай бұрын

I infer the feelings of characters in the game based of scenes that surround them and happen later on, I think atlus do make protagonists but because they are partial blank slates most of the time we are never told what a character is feeling or why they are doing something, thus we can only infer why they do something or why they don't based on what they DID do. As much as we want to deny it Naho IS a character with a core narrative, it's just harder to interpret that narrative given the vague nature of SMT stories.

Quiddity - The inherent nature or essence of someone or something. A distinct feature. Something’s whatness.

I think a lot of people want it to be more like Persona and not SMT. I think people need to replay SMT3. Chiaki and Isamu aren't full characters. They're stand-ins for philosophical points. Just like in SMTV. People wanted it to be Persona 6.

Wow, excellent analysis. This actually makes me think of the 5 Theosophic initiations. It's a little nebulous as to when one ends and the other begins (as the becoming one with higher self is mentioned as initiation 1 while initiation 2 matches more with when the protag is forced into venturing into Da'at) 1. Ceasing of addiction or Awakening to the Buddhic plane: Naho being a heavy introvert has no attachment to the illusory human world in which the people he would regularly interact with are present 2. Awakening to spiritual reality, the Baptism or the Christ state: He makes manifest the union between him and his higher Self to become the Nahobino or God of Unity, with this the knowledge that he will have to make sacrifices along the way of this new journey is evident and so he joins forces with Bethel or "The House of God" to use his newfound power for good 3. Honing of higher self or inversion of worldview and focus: This stage in the game I think is marked in the gameplay as you leveling from between the beginning of the game until you reach the second Da'at. In scripture this is reflected by Yeshua and Moses going into the mountains, fasting and then returning stronger and more spiritually refined than ever (even having been described as becoming 2/3rds light). This is also reflected with the characteristic of the essences that he incorporates. Reclaiming his divine nature through incorporation of the information that the demons represent. 4. Resignation or Sacrifice: This reflects evidently what Naho did for Tao Isonokami. He ultimately died but came back with the help of what is later revealed to be SMTV's divine feminine aspect of God fulfilling the imagined archetype that the religious Jesus fulfills (the historical and more sage-like Yeshua fulfilled it symbolically considering he didn't actually come back from the dead). It's worth noting that Tao goes through the five initiations herself in a more natural way that is in line with what the Theosophists had in mind, they occur off screen and this is basically her fourth and fifth initiation that we see within the game (hell, I think even in that cutscene where the Amitabha Buddha awakens in her the ability to heal all wounds she goes through both technically). You killing all of the other Bethel branch leaders is essentially a resignation of forms, you are eliminating all that falsely claim to be the true embodiments of divinity or as we like to say "One more god rejected." (even though that's not the accurate lyrics it's still fun to say). The ascended Lucifer fight is representative of the point right before the Fifth initiation and is very much one for one in line with the Theosophical belief that Lucifer is in all of us and that we need to overcome that Lucifer nature to become awakened to Christ consciousness. 5. Transcendence: Let me just copy and paste this C.W. Leadbeater quote as I cannot say it any better "The fifth Initiation, that of the Adept [is] the final step that makes him Superman--Asekha, as the Buddhists call Him, because He has no more to learn, and has exhausted the possibilities of the human kingdom of nature; Jivanmukta, as the Hindus speak of Him, a liberated life, a free being, free not because of any separate independence, but because His will is one with the universal Will, that of the One without a second. He stands ever in the light of Nirvana, even in His waking consciousness, should He choose to remain on earth in a physical body, and when out of that body He rises still higher into the Monadic plane, beyond not merely our words but our thought." This reflects what he becomes in all of the endings besides the Bad Neutral ending really well but only the True Neutral truly reflects what's being described here. It's not a perfect reflection but they are there within the game's narrative

This is why I like the True Ending

I really loved this game but I could tell it was limited and could be more. I’m so excited to play Vengeance on PS5. 🥵

I wish Atlus would port all the SMT games to modern consoles.

@CursedValor

4 ай бұрын

Yeah! Most smt games can only be emulated these days its super painful.

I can't wait to play SMT5 Vengeance on my PS4.

@CursedValor

4 ай бұрын

I didn't know it was coming to PS4 but that's great! we pray the port is good!

@DragonKingX78

4 ай бұрын

@@CursedValorthe port has the original version of the game and a new route....you choose when start the game.

I really enjoyed your video, because I've been thinking ever since the announcement of Vengeance I really like to see the idea. Of a continuation after the true ending. Somebody who gave up everything to make a world without demons and angels only to see that it's been Disturbed once again through more entities that dare tamper with the fates of humans once again. Also, because I wanted an ideal situation to create a scenario to fight Proto Fiend Aogami. Because of the idea of being a new area that wasn't in the base game in this new Vengeance story. My mind immediately raised the idea of the old world that was destroyed/ abandoned for the new one that our main protagonists made in V still living there alone after being separated. Were all of the Gods demons and angels now use far distance from humans.

I really liked your interpertation of the story.... I wont claim that I had a very formulate theory about it , but I really enjoyed the games story and cant comprehend the backlash it has. I mean it is more esoteric in nature and departs a lot from other Megaten games . I dunno I just like it a lot. Thanks for the video and hope more people give it a chance and lets hope the added story on Vengance is just as interesting.

smt5 is really good, and i liked the way you analyzed it, but i wanted to punch God too really bad. Heres hoping for Vengeance to just get rid of the half assed side characters if we are going to focus on Nahobino.

Thanks! EDIT: I DO NOT REMEMBER DOING THIS, I DIDN'T EVEN OPEN THE COMMENTS WHEN I WATCHED THIS! WHAT THE HELL? Nice video, but what the hell caused this?

@CursedValor

4 ай бұрын

You are the reason I wake up every morning!

Yeah, sorry, but smt needs a stronger supporting cast and story for its alignments. Would it have been nice to have more back story and context for the choas and neutral characters. And nothing is done with the traveling Buddhist

I don't think this video works to explain why SMTV is a masterpiece because most of it it's based interpretation of a blank slate character that meant to be a vehicles to our opinion and ideas, also unlike a persona protagonist or even Devil survivor protagonist, Nahobino expression never changes, so we can't really say when its stoic or determination is displayed in his face. And on top of that , you make a lot of assumptions on how Nahobino feels about everything when neither the dialogue or Nahobino emotions back up what you say, especialy when comes to demons because you can actually choose to be against them every time you have a option. If this was a "Why SMTV True Humanity ending was so good" , I could agree with most of the assumptions, theories and opinions. As far this video goes is basically a huge headcanon on how you feels about Nahobino, which isn't entirely bad, mind you. Also the True Humanity ending is mixed bag because while its true that Nahobino's connection to Demons is much clearly compare to Humans, the ending requirements , helping demons , don't match the actual ending nor how its unlocked , Nuwa telling Nahobino about their true plans. About the character not being developed being something done with purpose, theres two points: You mentioned how Nahobino's humanity is slowing fading away but still theres because he probably feels something about Tao's death, yet we never get to be friends with anyone in the characters. They're at worst our acquaintances , at best our coworks. They aren't our friends. Two, Dazia character has way too much focus during the first and second areas to say that the game intentionality ignore the cast of humans. There's way too much time spent on knowning his circumstances, parental issues and insecurities to dismiss as done on purpose.

@CursedValor

4 ай бұрын

I base most of my interpretations entirely on the actions the protagonist takes when going for the true ending, and any decisions given to the player I try to choose whichever choice is most inline with that ending since it builds consistency which is a basic assumption you can have when looking at a character, generally they are consistent creatures. with that in mind yes a lot of it is up for interpretation but that's the nature of smt games, however that does not mean we can't/shouldn't try to make sense of the story and try to build a cohesive consistent narrative out of it. Additionally when i say the game ignores the side cast I'm not speaking in the sense of "they game forgets they exist" i'm speaking in the sense of "they are only relevant when they provide something to the protags growth" poor wording i suppose but I was trying to convey that the side cast, especially dazai, are only ever focused on when the protagonist is involved in someway. In Dazai's case, is "corruption" by Abdiel's dogma is supposed to show how the protagonist could potentially be led away from his own ideals by the ravenous hunger of another's ideals, when to get the true ending you need to remain true to yourself and your own convictions.

I agree that its a misunderstood masterpiece. I think its evident given that a lot of the comments still dont understand what the story was going for and whenever I discuss the story online on forums people seem to refuse to understand the story. I like your interpretation of Sahori's death as well. I think that its cool you can have your own interpretations of a scene and I can see where youre coming from with it as it is somewhat strange that he decided to kill her so easily. However, I believe the story is good because of its themes. Like how its an allegory for ideologies. It very much sets up a story of democracy, dictatorship and anarchy. Demons represent ideologies consistently throughout the game, particularlt show in sidequests (Black Frost (free market) vs Dionysus (controlled market) spring to mind) I particularly like how Dazai's character development reflects how people fall into the trap of cults and I suppose extremist ideas of supporting dictators. I like how Tao's development mirrors the Law Hero from SMT 1 while Dazai mirrors the Chaos Hero yet moves to Law. I thnk the "true neutral" ending is the best ending in the series, as it has 2 meanings. Not only is it an allegory for how Anarchy is impossible (as demons represent ideologies, a world without demons = a world with no ruling ideology and therefore anarachy). But they say demons will eventually return in that ending which shows anarchy isnt a realistic outcome. Also, I think it shows humanity in the protag that he is willing tk sacrifice his best friends for the greater good of humanity

Great video. I watched it all the way to the end. What happened to your other channel?

@CursedValor

4 ай бұрын

It’s just easier to upload everything on one channel, the other channel is honestly just for testing different kinds of videos

@kaneclarke4825

4 ай бұрын

@@CursedValor can I ask what is your accent?

thank you I will have a wonderful

The characters of SMT V felt very forgettable, as if the story was just unfinished. My opinion is that Atlus acknowledged this as well as the demand for a release that is not bogged down by the Nintendo Switch's hardware, and hopefully Vengence aims to fix alot of these plot holes and gives more character instead of just doing the classic thing they do which is just throw more unfinished characters into the game into tricking the player into thinking more equals better.

@plentyoflulu4694

4 ай бұрын

i reject this premise. To me, outside one specific character MEANT to be forgettable, not a single named character was. and tbh, i don't think it's even possible that they failed in trying to make them rememberable , since how strongly they act on behalf of their personal allignment. I'm not going against you, but i wana understand more your point of view : there is perchance the possibility that you are missusing the term Forgettable? i Ask because it has happened more ofthen then not that people who suggest this specific thing, they meant use the term "well characterized" , since every single thing in game suggest that those character exist only in what they do to the protagonist and often just that. If this is not the case, then what do you mean by Forgettable?

@MeldinX2

Ай бұрын

@@plentyoflulu4694 Thing is the devs themselfs said that they were rushed. Or did not have the time to do the story justice. They did not mean to make the characters forgettable. Which is why they are giving it another shot with the new Vengance canon in the new edition.

So, to sum it up, this is what it is to be an actual god. Everyone lens is from a normal person perspective, honestly watching this video made a lot of sense out of the game.

I'll be blunt, people don't like the story because it is poorly told and mostly left to interpretation. The mc is too much of a blank slate for any input to be valid. the ambiguity of Sahori's hug scene being the call out for it. "You gotta kill your friends", what friends? they're abscent through the game just as much as the introduction led us to believe.

@louish5068

3 ай бұрын

I like the story because there a lot to interpret, I dont agree with his analysis exactly but a lot of people have pointed out the very clear intention of the story to be focused on ideologies and demons representing ideologies.

@AnakhaSilver

2 ай бұрын

Welcome to SMT. That's how it's always worked. Go play SM3 again and tell me Demi-Fiend isn't a blank slate.

Oh man we finally hit the "misunderstood masterpiece" era for SMTV, glad to see the SMT community is getting better at not just writing off a game only to come back a decade later to say it didn't get the love it deserved. Also, even the creator themselves said in the nicest way "we wanted to do more but were limited by the switch", and anyone who played SMTV can tell there are clear points in the story where you can tell there was something else to be there.

@_GLXC

3 ай бұрын

I don't think they were limited by the switch, I think they just had too many conflicting ideas and couldn't fit it all, so to avoid having a bunch of convoluted narratives tripping over eachother, they cut back and left only the elements for only a few, distantly scattered narratives.

@larrywoolfolk8224

3 ай бұрын

@@_GLXC yeah they came out and explained why the story felt short, I was more talking about the performance. Like if you compare SH2 which had a lot less going on, and was more hub based than open world, you would think SH2 would be the switch title and not SMTV

@louish5068

3 ай бұрын

There is a lot there to interpret. Just not what this video here was saying. There is a general consensus that the story is an allegory for ideologies and that demons represent ideologies. Btw, they never said the story was bad kr short lol. They just said they had ideas they werent able to implement. If we look at the trailers for Vengeance so far, it is clear that a lot of the story there directly contradicts what happens in V and wouldnt have been able to happen in the same story. So I think they just had multiple ideas for how the story could go and Vengeance is one of them

@caduhidalgo4996

Ай бұрын

​@@larrywoolfolk8224 SH2 runs way too well to be a Switch game 😂 (But that does make a lot of sense)

I put so many hours in switch now i have to play again on my ps5

ANOTHER ONE FOR THE BOOKS

The essence of water being Wet! 😂

cook 🧑‍🍳

Dont want to be spoil but apparently the only thing peoples dont like is the story but apparently the gameplay is great, am I right ? Its to know if i should buy it without getting spoil

@vanilla8956

4 ай бұрын

The new game coming out this year, SMT V Vengeance will have all the content in the original game, including DLC and the original story as an option to play through. You should just wait for that to come out friend, trust me.

@labeilleautiste6318

4 ай бұрын

@@vanilla8956 so the gameplay its good ? I did play Nocturne and Persona 5, actually doing Persona 4 I love it, SMT V seems at least as good as SMT Nocturne if its not more I play mostly games for the atmosphère and the gameplay more than the story of even lore , and have great gameplay and great atmosphère, the V seems perfection for me in an exterior point of view

@labeilleautiste6318

4 ай бұрын

I am french sorry if my english is not clear 😣

@vanilla8956

4 ай бұрын

@@labeilleautiste6318 No don't worry. You're fine. The game play is really, really good. It only has one problem. The level of characters, (like: "Level 20 Jack Frost") is way too heavily calculated in the game's math. If you fight a boss 10 levels higher than you, it will be almost impossible to win, and if you're 10 levels higher it will be way too easy. In Nocturne I beat Lucifer with a Level 50 Jack Frost, but there's no way you could beat V's super boss with that. However, the devs have said that they heard the criticism of this and will be fixing this in SMT V Vengeance. So once again, just wait for Vengeance and the Gameplay will probably be flawless, since they are fixing the only problem I had with it

@loope9421

4 ай бұрын

The gameplay isn’t as good as the previous smt games. In this game you have to grind, and the gameplay is slower paced due to animations.

Should have waited a bit for V Vengeance

@CursedValor

4 ай бұрын

I plan to make a separate video for vengeance.

Masterpiece is word thrown around too frivolously, and I think this video is a testament to that. This game is no such thing as a masterpiece, I’d argue as much as to say it’s probably the weakest smt entry yet.

@louish5068

3 ай бұрын

Its my favourite game of all time, I would probably say a masterpiece but I can acknowledge there are issues with it. Like Yuzuru and Miyazu.... But overall I think the story is misunderstood and I really like it. The reason I think its good tho is one held by a lot of people, how its story (with the help of sidequests) is an allegory for ideologies.

The story of smt comes from the interactions that the messiah's goes through. Yes we can interpret how the messiahs may end up feeling but since all of them are just blank slates we are only left with putting in OUR interpretations of what they feel. The games story comes from how the side characters try to sell and pitch in the their idealogies and reasonings to the messiahs. We weigh them out and choose a path to strive towards. The reason why I think this works for smt 3 but not 5 is because later on when they re-release the game again they added in the TDE (True demon ending), where you basically give the bird to all the remaining humans in the vortex world with their reasonings. That's the problem I have with smt 5, the characters don't really do a great job trying to pitch in their idealogies of how the new wolrd order should be established compared to 3 where each representatives basically sit the demifiend down and do their best sell their reasonings to him. The story of 5 is just there, it's a template of how a smt game is supposed to feel but doesn't hit the beats. This game was made with the newcomers coming into atlus and they have my absolute respect for working on it, there are still some familiar face but a lot of the big names in atlus moved to different projects and want to give the new faces to have a chance. They still did an amazing job and only have great expectations as new titles are made

@AnakhaSilver

2 ай бұрын

You realize that this is a stealth sequel to SMT3? The details line up perfectly. Congrats, you find out Lucifer preserved humanity in the end. Chiaki doesn't make a good pitch. Isamu doesn't make a good pitch. Hikawa DEFINITELY doesn't make a good pitch. TDE is canon, sure, but not because it allows you to flip a bird to humanity.

are we finally defending smt5s story now???? Also nahobino solos 99.99999% of fiction

I actually liked smtv more than p5. Lmao

I put 400+ hours into SMTV and if you aren’t enjoying an SMT game you might be going in with the wrong mindset and perhaps even wrong difficulty setting. You gotta go in with the same mindset you go in for a Souls game/Elden Ring. You mainly play a mainline SMT for the difficulty and challenge, constantly having to make new strategies and adapt to new bosses, beating fun superbosses. That’s something that SMTV did well. The ability to customize yourself and demons was amazing, and Shiva + Demi-Fiend were extremely satisfying challenges. Others too if you respected the level caps and played on Hard mode. SMT mainline will always have a decent story, and perhaps Vengeance will have a mindblowing story, but if you’re going in expecting Persona or Baldur’s Gate 3 level storytelling, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment and playing the game wrong. Hence why SMTV was also dubbed “turn based souls.” You play for the exploration and bosses, the story is just a lil cherry on top. It’s usually alright at best. I’m not saying we should let them get away with bad stories, I’m just saying the gameplay is what makes the games fun and addictive, not the story.

@alsaiduq4363

4 ай бұрын

Idk man, just sounds like you only played SMT Nocturne and to say that SMT never had good story like Persona or BG3. Strange Journey has a great story , one of the best in series and still very much a SMT game.

@_GLXC

3 ай бұрын

Shiva and Demi-Fiend weren't the only challenging bosses. You pretty much have to form a strategy for most of the bosses in this game.

If SMT 5 ( or even 4) is a masterpiece, then that word is now totally devoid of any meaning, and I also elect "Custer's Revenge" as another videogame masterpiece.

You lose me when you say "demons bad." not only does Atuls disagree, the Japanese name for demons being a pun based on the Japanese words for friend and demon, but many demons are based on good figures. When you say "Demons bad" you are saying that most cultures are bad.

@CursedValor

2 ай бұрын

i was saying the opposite, i was saying the common understanding of demons is negative but in smt as quite often chill and very humanlike.

did we play the same game?

You mean diet Nocturne?

This video doesn't prove anything about the game being a masterpiece, and even if the game is misunderstood, the story is still not good, it's not something that can move a lot of people. The first issue is that what I am hearing here is a lot, and I mean a lot of interpretation and speculation on plot points either barely touched on or not even implied in the game. I can agree about the secret neutral ending but that route itself is horrible, Nahobino just erases every demon after befriending all of them, even the green bethel guy, it contradicts its own requirement But what truly bothers me is that you're saying that it's fine that the side characters suck because the story isn't about them. Uhm, no? Not at all. The side characters in SMT are the most important thing to the stories of each game, as they represent the ending I am going to choose. Yuzuru is so under-developed that I couldn't care less about the chaos path, Abdiel is almost decently written so I will always go for Law. SMT needs good side characters, people I can relate to, in order to make me interested about the path I am choosing. I have no idea if you played Devil Survivor, but that game, like SMTV, is not about the side characters, but about the lockdown and the truth regarding the protagonist. Yet all the side characters are well written and all of them provide good points for why I should follow them. It also helps that there is more than one final boss, expecially in the Overlocked version

First game i never finished because i got BORED playing it. Even soul hackers 2 is more fun because it is closer to persona than this game is. There’s a reason persona games sell better!

@louish5068

3 ай бұрын

This is a shit take lmao. CoD sells better? Pokemon sells better? More sales does not equal better game

@billyboleson2830

27 күн бұрын

The only thing Persona like in sh2 is that you have normal party members and that’s basically it