"Together with Maria." That goes deep

@GideonHannsz-ht3qm

Күн бұрын

This deserved the hundredth like, so here you go 👍

I'm personally a fan of Path 138, or "The Black Hero's Rebirth." I think it fits most in line with Shadow's character and how he would react to certain scenarios. We start off in Westopolis, where Shadow's main goal is to just find the Chaos Emeralds. He is asked by Sonic to help fight off the Black Arms' invasion, but Black Doom knows something about Shadow's past, so not wanting to anger him, he ignores the Black Arms' troops. At this point, Shadow also doesn't have anything against the human military and knows that they are just defending themselves, so when Black Doom asks Shadow to take them out, he refuses to take a side for now and just grab the Emerald. We are then teleported to Glyphic Canyon by a frustrated Black Doom. When Shadow comes to, he says, "Guess I underestimated his powers. Now, it's up to me to find out what they're up to." This suggests that Shadow has decided to temporarily go along with The Black Arms' plans, and since Black Doom is only asking him to activate the crystals throughout the stage, he can safely ignore the G.U.N. soldiers. Afterward, we see Shadow teleport to Cryptic Castle. We can assume he Chaos Controlled there himself or was teleported there by Black Doom in order to give support to the Black Arms fighting there. Once there, he sees Dr. Eggman, in his Egg Mobile through the window and realizes this must be one of his bases. Sensing an opportunity to find out more about the Black Arms, he chases Eggman throughout the base. Eventually, Shadow catches up with the doctor, and they make a deal: Shadow helps activate his castle's defense system, and he will help him in return. While exploring the castle, Shadow runs into Amy, who says she was there with Cream and Cheese before they got separated, and now Cream and Cheese are both lost in the castle. Amy begs Shadow for help, and this triggers something in his subconscious, similar to what happened in SA2, where Amy asks Shadow to help save the earth. Shadow agrees, and together, they both rush in and search for Cream and Cheese. Once Cream and Cheese are safe, Shadow and Amy both go further into the base to find Eggman. Eventually, he confronts them in his Egg Breaker, angry that Shadow broke their deal in order to save Cream and Cheese. We can probably assume the Black Arms managed to raid the castle since the defense systems were never activated, resulting in Eggman losing the base. Shadow and Amy try to reason with the doctor, but he's not having it and attacks them. We are then taken to Sky Troops, where the temple from Glyphic Canyon is now a flying fortress for the Black Arms, and Shadow is reunited with Black Doom. They see Eggman's fleet approaching to attack, and Black Doom orders Shadow to take care of the doctor's forces. Shadow eventually runs into one of Eggman's drones, and now that Eggman is a bit calmer, they both come to the conclusion that the Black Arms are the bigger threat and decide to work together to destroy the flying fortress. Shadow then goes and destroys the same crystals he helped activate back in Glyphic Canyon. Now a certified enemy of the Black Arms, Shadow teleports to a nearby Eggman base, where he runs into Sonic, who's on top of a space shuttle. Sonic informs Shadow that the Black Arms are heading towards the ARK, and he's on his way to help stop them. He offers Shadow a ride, who agrees. When they come into eye shot of the ARK, Shadow gets a flashback and rembers this being the place where Maria died but still doesn't have a full picture. This takes us to Space Gadget. When they land, Sonic says that there's a Chaos Emerald nearby. He realizes the path is actually the same on he, and Shadow fought on during the events of SA2 and gets an idea. He challenges Shadow to race, first one to the Emerald wins. Shadow reluctantly accepts, and they dash towards the Emerald. Throughout the race, Sonic asks Shadow if he remembers the day they fought on this same path, the day that he made the ultimate sacrifice and helped save the world. He also ends up throwing in some light teasing to help give Shadow the motivation to reach the Emerald. Shadow ends up getting to the Emerald first, and the moment his hand closes around the gem, it all comes flooding back. His promise to Maria, his sacrifice, everything. He now knows what he needs to do, and he thanks Sonic for helping him remember his true self. Together, they set off for the Black Comet to defeat the Black Arms once and for all, which leads to Final Haunt, the boss against Black Doom, and Shadow keeping his promise to Maria. "I am Shadow the Hedgehog, and I made a promise that I intend to keep! With the power of these emeralds, Black Doom and his army are finished. This is WHO I AM!" It might not be the perfect path canonically. It certainly leaves its fair share of loose ends, but this game is full of plot holes left and right, no matter what path you look at, and it's my preferred path. I like to think maybe the G.U.N. commander saw Shadow working with Sonic to defeat Black Doom himself, or one of the soldiers sent up to the comet reported it to him. With Sonic vouching for Shadow personally, this could've led to the Commander realizing he could have been wrong about Shadow and maybe decided to sit down and talk to him. Together, they could explain each other's version of the events that transpired 50 years ago aboard the ARK. Agreeing that G.U.N. and the United Federation as a whole are now completely different organizations compared to what they were 50 years ago under the Commander and current U.F. president, respectively, they decide to work together to keep the world a better and safer place. After all, it's what Maria would have wanted. This results in Shadow joining G.U.N. and forms Team Dark alongside Rouge and Omega as an official government task force under the command of Abraham Tower (the Commander's real name), but that's just my head-canon.

@brendiesel386

Жыл бұрын

awesome dude that was a fun read it's cool how you analyzed certain lines, because we don't get to see every story detail in Path 138 i also love the idea of the routes in shadow...

@Paulo-qs8mg

Жыл бұрын

This one was really good. You had to use some of your imagination at some part to make it more sense. And honestly, it does makes sense most of the time (like, wow. Eggman calms down pretty fast to actually team up with shadow after being betrayed by him.)

@inkchariot6147

Жыл бұрын

That was a damn good read. Sonic would totally vouch for Shadow.

@birdican

Жыл бұрын

sir this is a wendy's

@eddysegafan6655

Жыл бұрын

Very well and thought-out. I think when I played it on the ps2 way back when it released, I think I stumbled upon a similar path 12 year old me was like..."...yeah that makes sense." Bonus points for how cool it was to race Sonic on the same place they fought in SA2 🤘

Shadow's actually friendlier to Sonic in this game than he's been in most recent media outside of Forces. Goddammit, I really want them to do away with the toy-selling forced rivalry, and try and embrace that friendlier disposition they had in Sa2's endgame, Heroes, 06 and Rivals.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

I wonder just how different the mandates are between the games the comics, and cartoons they've made in recent times. Shadow is written horribly in Sonic Boom and is questionable in the comics. In the games he's been written with consistency, and its good.

@YujiUedaFan

7 ай бұрын

@@DellStarX I feel like Shadow being a jerkass to Sonic makes the most sense in Sonic Prime, since Shadow actually has a good reason to be angry.

@SkippytWalrus

6 ай бұрын

They should just have them respect each other. Really thats all it takes, they can still have their stupid rivalry, they can still be friends, but they respect each other's strengths. Recently, in Prime, we did get a respectable shadow, but ironically, it's Sonic's characterization that drags his and Shadow's relationship down, while they still sort of respect each other, sort of have a rivalry and sort of are friends. Prime Shadow just really bugs me sometimes, What with his loner status cranked to 11 (he should have had some dialogue with the shatter rogues, especially) but he's far less offensive than the comics or Boom.

@YujiUedaFan

6 ай бұрын

@@SkippytWalrus My issue with Prime is that it's somehow canon to the games. It's fine if it's its own thing and the games still happened in it, I just don't want future games to also reference it.

@hihi-nm3uy

6 ай бұрын

@@SkippytWalrus Prime is as good as we got in some time. Honestly, all he needed to do was INTERACT with others more.

Honestly, I feel like it wouldn't be that hard to get all the paths. If you just do one path a day, you'd be through in under a year.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

Ive contemplated doing all the paths again recently because it doesnt take long to do each path depending on the mission. You would just have to be going out of your way to get all 326.

@TheJadeFist

Жыл бұрын

I've 100% the game twice, besides all possible paths, I've never bothered, it's really just too much, but the game only rewards for all the A ranks and keys.

@fdg2208

Жыл бұрын

Considering there are a total of 326 of those at 0:25

@CodyHeldreth

Жыл бұрын

I am never doing that bomb mission in the cyberspace level ever again; never mind how many times I'd have to do that specific mission to get all the possible paths. There is being a completionist, and then there is being a masochist!

@stoodmuffinpersonal3144

Жыл бұрын

I missed all but one when I played it. One level. Out of all of them. Never got to the cannon ending.

If you are wondering how the game got an E-10+ rating when there's an ending where Shadow murders Eggman, and also an ending where Shadow commits suicide, you have to keep in mind that Sonic and the Black Knight also got the same rating, and there's a point where Gawain attempts to commit suicide, over losing to Sonic, leaving Sonic to snatch Gawain's weapon away from him to prevent him from committing suicide over losing to Sonic and failing his king.

@infiniteblaz3416

Жыл бұрын

I think he’s implying that the game should’ve been rated T for Teen instead of E10+.

@CrystalMajestica

Жыл бұрын

Shadow the Hedgehog was originally going to be rated T and possibly uncensored until the ESRB introduced the E10+ rating in the middle of the game's development so the developers went for E10+.

@edfreak9001

Жыл бұрын

@@CrystalMajestica Yeah, that's why the aliens have the flourescent green blood and such. They kinda scurried to make it work and I supposed they made it, for better or worse.

@delaneyelekes8660

4 ай бұрын

A year late response but, man, where on EARTH did people get the impression that the Gawain scene is supposed to be some super serious moment about suicide?! It's a JOKE. One that's often seen in cartoons and other media. The good ol' "I MUST LIVE BY MY CODE! SLAY ME SINCE YOU BEAT ME!" and the good guy going "No! That's not the right thing to do!" Except, y'know, poked fun at by having Sonic react like "What's wrong with you?!" It's a trope! It's part of a joke! Yet people discuss this moment as if Black Knight's story has major themes of depression and suicide in it??

Discussing the possibilities the different story paths could craft is part of what makes this game so fun. Maybe it can get a little confusing at times, but the branching paths perfectly describes Shadow's mental journey. He himself is piecing the story together as he goes through the adventure, discovering who he was and who he wants to be.

Holy shit! I was honestly expecting this video to fly under the radar like my other sonic theory videos. Reading and responding to so many people's own ideas about the true path in Shadow The Hedgehog has been a blast! I love it, and thanks for the support on this video!

@MatthewAKemp

Жыл бұрын

Sir...We're actually surprised somebody was crazy enough to do all over and over and over again. You must definitely know all the glitches by now.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

@@MatthewAKemp lol I couldnt tell you any speedrunning strats for this game, but I definitely did encounter some glitches

@artistanthony1007

Жыл бұрын

Years ago, I actually heard all dialogue in the game including from individuals and Eggman's Confession during Devil Doom and unlocked all the Routes, I'm pretty much knowledgeable on the game but forgot many lines, I can confirm that the routes that are confirmed to be canon in entirety of Last Story and things happening in that CGI Opening before the Main Menu are Dark and Neutral Route while Dark having majority of in-game CGI Cutscenes, Shadow canonically went through those two and Last Story shows it.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

@@artistanthony1007 Ah so you're saying most of the canon events happens in the neutral and dark paths? Is there any paths in particular that covers all bases? Its so interesting that a lot of people have their own idea of what the true path is.

@artistanthony1007

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX I don't think so, we just know by Last Story he has collected all Emeralds and that confession was Eggman saying he lied about making him, those are all I can see atm and I'm gonna need to think it over for some time, analyze scenes and figure how it would be pieced together because I have no idea what his true path is like....yet.

8:33 Shadow kills himself because he couldnt bare with Vector repeating the phrase to find the computer room.

@GideonHannsz-ht3qm

Күн бұрын

That croc has blood on his hands

I've always thought "Together with Maria..." was one of my favourite routes, but he is pretty committal to honouring Maria's memory and becoming the protector and preservationist of the ARK's legacy. He doesn't really care about humanity beyond Maria at that point - him helping the ARK staff in The Doom is essentially him doing it for Maria more than anything else. So I don't think the driving plot points of Last Story really make sense in that context. Truthfully I've felt that Last Story is a splinter path of a route that leads him to Black Comet where the Black Doom fight doesn't transpire. Having done all 326 routes myself, none really stood out to me as answering everything, though you can get partway there. Always love the routes involving Maria though. It's a shame Shadow's devotion to her became a meme; I think Shadow the Hedgehog handled their dynamic decently well in the instances that you had direct involvement with it.

@robertlupa8273

Жыл бұрын

You actually did all the routes. The absolute madman.

@SuperSonic18969

4 ай бұрын

I respect the grind 🫡

Honestly very well-done. I always thought that ALL the Chaotix missions needed to be canon because Espio going into cyber space to steal Eggman’s data was also meant to tie into the last story, but I’m not sure there’s a path that would allow that to make sense.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

There are quite a few paths that feature all 3 chaotix stages. In the link below if you scroll down to path 177 -186, those 9 paths feature the chaotix missions, with path 186 being the one where Shadow helps all 3 members. sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_the_Hedgehog_(game)/Library_Sequences

@GoldLight73

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX Ah, I stand corrected lol. In all fairness it's been a long time since I played Shadow so I forgot exactly which levels lead to which.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

@@GoldLight73 no worries. This is why its great that we have people in the sonic fandom keeping track of all this.

I love that the alternate paths have names

Honestly, Shadow's whole arc from SA2 to 06 is one of the best arcs of that era. (Other characters got plenty of development in those games as well, but Shadow grew the most whereas other characters had their arcs finalized in Frontiers. (Amy becoming more than just a fan-girl and doing good for the world, Tails becoming his own hero, and Knuckles becoming more trusting if others and willing to explore more than just Angel Island.)) (Rouge technically has her own arc where she becomes more of a civilian by using schemes instead of committing crimes and taking her job as an agent more seriously, but she hasn't had much focus since 06 aside from handheld games. (Hopefully they'll show her heroic side more in Sonic Prime.)) Besides being a free-lance GUN agent, I can totally agree with the idea of Shadow returning to the ARK from time to time. Hope we get to see more of Shadow's character development soon other than just picking casual fights with Sonic over philosophies.

@GodittoC

Жыл бұрын

69 likes, make a wish!

@dogmendogmen

8 ай бұрын

Tails hero arc was in SA1 and SA2, and that was the best Sonic character arc of the era, unless Gamma also counts as "the era". they just completely undid his character development in the following games until Forces and did the arc again, but did it worse.

@dogmendogmen

8 ай бұрын

I think it's interesting that Rouge started out as an outsider working for the UF, which was a separate entity which was in conflict with GUN, but works for GUN afterwards. Wouldn't GUN suspect the Rouge was a double agent? Shadow being a GUN agent was a stranger development, though. Why would he ever work for the people that killed Maria and kidnapped him? even if he wanted to leave his past behind it doesn't make sense. But to be fair it didn't really make sense that The Commander would be a part of GUN, much less the leader.

@michaelcarlton1484

8 ай бұрын

@@dogmendogmen G.U.N. primarily works for the United Federation. Also, G.U.N. was run by different people 50+ years ago, which is why Shadow can be a bit forgiving. Plus, him being a part-time agent allows him to do good whenever HE wants.

@dogmendogmen

8 ай бұрын

@@michaelcarlton1484 GUN is to the UF president what the CIA is to the US president. They both intend to operate in national interests but they don't nessecarily agree on what that is and have worked against each other, and the US President is not privy to all of the information the CIA possesses. The UF were the ones who commissioned Project Shadow, but GUN independently commandeered the ARK and placed Shadow in stasis, deep within Prison Island. In SA2 Rouge is explicitly said to have been sent by the president in order to investigate Project Shadow (the project, not Shadow himself, and it's treated as this huge revelation when Rouge finds all this information about the Biolizard and it suddenly becomes ambiguous as the whether he is Shadow, or if any of his memories are even real. GUN would obviously already knows all about this and wouldn't need a spy to investigate files they already possess), and GUN still tries to kill her, including Flying Dog which is manned and not a robot, which would imply she's not on their side. It's possible GUN just never found out she was a spy at all, or maybe UF/GUN relations are better after SA2, though with how much they fight over what to do about Shadow in Shadow The Hedgehog I feel like that's probably not the case. If GUN was completely under the control of the UF they'd have to take orders from them, but they don't, not even in states of emergency like literal alien invasions.

I’ll always prefer the miracle of love path, which is going dark until you get to Amy’s level(cryptic castle), and then flipping to hero for the rest of the game. Very reminiscent of their interactions in SA2.

@lucarioriolu7651

Жыл бұрын

I remember that one solely because of the name!

@fatalwaffle1715

Жыл бұрын

Why do they call it the Miracle of love?

@aneitalt

Жыл бұрын

@@fatalwaffle1715 I'm guessing it's referring to Amy. Amy's interaction "made Shadow good through the power of love" or something like that.

@fatalwaffle1715

Жыл бұрын

@@aneitalt and yet Sega keeps denying their ship. Since they refuse to make the theory about Silver being their son canon.

@gamercentral2417

Жыл бұрын

@@fatalwaffle1715 because it’s not??????? Sega refuses the ships be yare they are minors. Aside from that sonic the hedgehog isn’t a slice of life and Amy is attracted to sonic, shadow appreciates Amy but doesn’t love her like that

I think the solution to playing Westopolis 326 times is to allow players to skip a level after they've completed all 3 of it's permutations. It's not like an outcome in one level changes any dialogue in a later level. Maybe that undermines your (really good) arguments of using context queues to understand which route is canon, but I think this would dramatically improve StH's replayability to get the canon ending.

@Crow_Rising

Жыл бұрын

Personally I think it should just save your route data and instead of starting a new game, you can just level select your way into any level you've been to and continue the story from there. You'd still have to do Westopolis 3 times to get all three routes leading from it, but that's not so bad comparatively.

@anothercoda3403

Жыл бұрын

@@Crow_Rising couldn't agree more, was essentially meaning the same when I say "skip" levels. Maybe you could also choose the route implicitly and include a short recap summarizing the route you chose after branching off of an existing tree.

@Crow_Rising

Жыл бұрын

@@anothercoda3403 Yeah that'd be great.

@ToughVato

Жыл бұрын

His question falls in line more with game design than a legitimately hidden true path from context clues. Who shadow was is beside the point because his character is built around that fact which is his whole essence.

Personally I prefer the Shadow steals candy from a baby ending

@matteopoldrugo9535

Жыл бұрын

And that’s fine by me

Great video! Personally, I always thought that path 174, "For the Sake of the Self" (NNHDDH), most seamlessly connected to the Last Story, even if it didn't hit all the important points. It follows Shadow's objective of finding the Chaos Emeralds with two Neutral Missions in Westopolis and Glyphic Canyon like yours but differs after that. The path has Shadow complete the Hero Mission in Prison Island, as while he doesn't have any reason to help Charmy in particular, he does have reason to learn more about Prison Island itself. He starts the level by remembering his history with it. Since his objective is to fully remember his past, looking into any information regarding the place would help towards that goal. The Chaotix themselves also play an essential role in the Last Story happening, being the ones who get Gerald's message working and inspire Shadow to defeat Black Doom, so setting them up is key to making their return not come out of nowhere. While Espio and Vector are competent enough to do their tasks on their own, Charmy doesn't even know what a Top Secret Disk is, so he is most likely in need of Shadow's help to get their plot rolling. Mad Matrix is next, and the intro to that level has the joke of Shadow hitting the keyboard to get it working, which then comes back in the Last Story with Charmy doing the same to similarly successful results. This only makes sense if Mad Marix occurred before Last Story, so it would have had to happen for Charmy's actions to be reasonable (plus have the joke make sense to the player). Seeing as Shadow has begun to remember Eggman releasing him from Prison Island, it's logical that Shadow would directly confront the doctor, knowing they have a past connection from SA2. Shadow needs to do the Dark mission to get to Iron Jungle. However, he still has good reason for wanting to directly confront the doctor, as it would probably be more efficient to ask him face-to-face instead of looking through all of his (mostly irrelevant) data like with Espio. Shadow's end quote is, "Even if it takes everything I've got, I will get the truth from you, doctor!" showing that Shadow's goal is not helping Black Doom but getting Eggman to personally come and face him by trashing his cyberspace. Eggman's vague taunts of Shadow "having no past" also neatly tie into the rest of his confrontations, each building upon the last. Iron Jungle is vital for the reasons you explain in the video, but doing the evil mission could work too, as Shadow states he "Has a use for the doctor" in his end quote, still pursuing the truth above all else without directly picking a side. He would especially not like GUN after remembering them capturing him at Prison Island, which gives him further justification for choosing Eggman over them. After all, it will be easier to talk to Eggman when he isn't currently under attack (though Eggman has no intentions of talking, regardless). Finally, The Black Comet would be the last level, as it most seamlessly leads to Shadow's place on the comet in the Last Story. Final Haunt has Shadow defeating either Black Doom or Sonic, so it can't happen, but Hero Black Comet is just Shadow fighting Eggman, preserving Shadow's refusal to pick a side until the Last Story. The hero's path is not Shadow directly confronting the Black Arms, as his end quote is, "Do what you need to Knuckles. I've got my own reasons for being here." This follows Shadow's self-directed goals from the start, with the ending having Shadow believe that only he knows what is best for him, which naturally leads him to cut the influence of his past away as he did everyone else's influence. While Eggman getting karate chopped might seem like him dying, Shadow says, "Never show your face around me again!" when he beats him, implying he would have the chance to show his face again. Shadow has no real reason to kill Eggman, so this could be seen as him just knocking him out since this is still the semi-dark route, getting payback for Eggman trying to use him. Plus, this would explain why Eggman is on foot during the last story, with Shadow destorying the Egg Dealer he came in and leaving him defenceless and needing to stick by Sonic and Co in the meantime. This route has its flaws, not touching upon the ARK's events at all being a major one, but holes can be placed into almost any sequence, I think. Given Shadow's primary goal of discovering his past and ultimately deciding to follow his own ideals independent of others' influence, this path always seemed to stay the truest to that ending in progression. Shadow does a mixture of Hero, Dark, and Neural missions that each fit his goal of finding the truth, with Shadow overcoming Eggman's lies, giving him the conviction he needs to face Black Doom's truth and defeat him. In the end, I don't think there's one true path that would be 100% satisfying to see connect to the Last Story without information from another path (like with the GUN General) as it was made with the player having seen every ending in mind even if Shadow could never have experienced all the crucial events like the player did. These always seemed like fun thought experiments to see what everyone places in priority of importance, so it's great to see someone create a springboard for everyone to launch their own perspectives on this confusing and messy game.

Love your dry sense of humor “Withstand the emotional growth of a 3 foot hedgehog.”

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

Lol thank you, but I said "We stan"

@bubmario

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX Dude, even better. Haha.

You know, in the extra mode, Cream mentions thanks Shadow for saving her, so that means he had to do the hero mission in Cryptic Castle.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

You can 100% have a path that goes through that level as long as you feel like it makes sense.

I think, given the rules you established, this route makes the most sense. And it does line up perfectly with what we see in the final story. But me, personally, I always do the dark mission in Glyphic Canyon, followed by the hero mission in Cryptic Castle. Knowing a mission exists where you can rescue Cream makes me feel awful about a playthrough where I don't reach Cryptic Castle, since it's established for some reason that Cream can't just get herself out. Given the Cosmic Fall - DARK ending, this would set me on Route 135 - A Vow for the Victims.

I want to point out the IDW Sonic comics has a flashback to Sky Troops in Issue 6 while Sonic and Shadow are fighting.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

This is true! The mini flashback doesnt show Sonic or Shadow in that level tho, so I'd say that they were near the area where sky troops takes place and saw Eggman's fleet fighting the aliens.

I think Eggman lied about Shadow being an android because he thought he could convince Shadow to come work for him again. He likely knew that if Shadow found the whole truth, he’d become a hero like Sonic and that would make him another thorn in then doctor’s side. Better to let him think he’s an obedient android that does what the doc wants in the best case scenario. Worst case Shadow the “android” goes away and keeps to himself like Omega does.

Interesting path idea, though there is a problem. Eggman contradicts himself. He claims Shadow is just another android, but then goes on to say that his grandfather created him before and after the Egg Dealer fight. While we never properly get an explanation as to why Eggman lied, ny headcanon is that he's aware to some degree of Shadow's amnesia and is trying to manipulate him into his army. It wouldn't make sense for him to drop the act unless he knew it wouldn't benefit him, but we wouldn't know if it does because we never get an explicit reason for lying in the first place. I blame the dialogue, really. The cutscenes are never based directly on what you did before.

I’d like to see a mod condense these paths to the main ending and makes them connect

@leonardoalvarenga7572

Жыл бұрын

A linear version of the game would be pretty cool, the game's Expert Mode is almost that.

I think this route makes sense but so could hypothetically a few others where he does fight Black Doom or Sonic or maybe karate chop's Eggman (but doesn't quite finish him off). I always felt that they were just trying to imply that some of all the endings could be true but that the pure hero story was the most true pathway.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

yeah I've heard about the supposed true path being pure hero, and I gotta find the article or video where Iizuka says this. I wonder what his reasoning is.

@pinkie723

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX His reasoning is because we're Sonic heroes!!

@lepimnyx

7 ай бұрын

Because Black Doom recovers from his defeat and took the chaos emeralds to do Chaos Control on the black comet

I was only able to get like half of the paths as a kid because my disk eventually broke, mad respect to you.

Good video. As far as normal paths that could lead to the true ending go, this is as good as it gets. However I share the same feeling as another commentor that almost all the stages are canon in some way, but have an extra idea for helping to connect the dots of the larger story. Basing the canon locations Shadow obtains specific Chaos Emeralds around the levels with cutscenes that directly acknowledge them. (Since a proper story order would have to include levels across the whole game, this helps with determining which levels have non canon Emeralds, which should be ignored upon collection, otherwise Shadow is picking up way more than 7 Emeralds.) With that in mind: Westopolis Neutral Emerald 1&2 Lethal Highway Hero (Black Bull Boss) Emerald 3 Cryptic Castle Hero (Egg Breaker Boss) Emerald 4 discovered but lost Circus Park Neutral Emerald 4 Re-discovered and obtained (Come on, we can't have a canon story without *that infamous line*) Lost Impact Emerald 5 Emerald 6&7 are never discovered via cutscenes, and obviously the 10 Path Endings aren't canon, so we don't really know where Emerald 6's canon location would be, but we do know Emerald 7 is obtained on the Black Comet somehow at least. (But we don't know how) From there it's a matter of figuring out which levels couldn't possibly be canon narratively (mostly final levels), and reconstructing the remaining levels into a story that makes sense. (Including filler levels that don't add to the story, as long as they don't contradict the true ending they should be included.) While It should be possible to create a timeline that combines as many Hero, Neutral and Dark Story moments as possible this way, no matter what we will always have some holes in this story. As none of the final levels or their 7th Emeralds can truly be canon. (since they all lead Shadow into the various state of minds that determine the ending, which can't happen since only the True ending is canon) There are also certain final levels that have *moments* which are certainly canon. (GUN Fortress intro with President arriving and Commander loading pistol but completely excluding the Black Arms attack. Cosmic Fall Intro, and most likely Final Haunt Intro, since Black Comet intro references a GUN attack on the comet that doesn't happen in the True ending.) I'd love to see a mod rework the whole game into a proper linear story campaign one day, but it would be quite the tall task, since later cutscenes would need to edited, result screens and goal rings would need to change and a lot of level dialogue would need to be removed so as not to contradict the story.

@robertlupa8273

Жыл бұрын

At this point, I feel like you'd need to redub the whole thing instead of trying to salvage what's there.

@Paulo-qs8mg

Жыл бұрын

Dude. I've seen mods that kinda fixes the gameplay. But I think they will have to redub the game if they want to make this game's plot accurate.

@DigitalArctic

Жыл бұрын

@@Paulo-qs8mg Yeah. Even if you didn't go the redub route (which is the better option.) you'd fundamentally have to edit the existing dialogue to work in a "canon" story, and that's not even talking about the localization issues the existing dialogue has. (which is another reason why a redub would work better.)

@lpfan4491

Жыл бұрын

What do you guys mean with "redub"? A redub literally just means to replace the voiced localization with a newer(more accurate) version.

@DigitalArctic

Жыл бұрын

@@lpfan4491 That's what I'm talking about. I'm saying a redub would work far better, but if someone really wanted to stick to the original dub, (out of nostalgia) then you'd have to move certain dubbed dialogue around or edit pieces of it out entirely in order to make it more accurate to the intended story. (That would just be damage control though, since the og localization has enough problems that it's always going to have some issues no matter how you present it.)

Okay I just wrote a really long comment and noticed something I was missing, so here I go again from the start: Back in the day when I still had the Gamecube and this game, I think I made it to roughly 240 routes until I finally stopped because of burnout. I really loved this game and have also always wondered what the real route might look like. My guesses were very similiar to yours, but there are a few things that point to Final Haunt making a little more sense as the 6th level. But a tiny detail has to be changed for that to make more sense... So what I noticed is: In the cutscene at the start of the true ending, Shadow is already on the Black Comet. And at the very beginning of the cutscene, it shows him actually obtaining the 7th Emerald ON the Black Comet. It doesn't look like he got the Emerald somewhere else and then made his way to the Black Comet afterwards, it looks like this is where the real path actually ends, in the hero route of Final Haunt. Who knows, maybe Vector found the computer room on his own, after all it seems like he still had help from Espio and Charmie. But in order for Final Haunt to make sense, the true ending has to start BEFORE the bossfight with Black Doom. What if, Shadow & Sonic make it to the end of Final Haunt and that's where the true ending already starts, the battle with normal Black Doom doesn't take place yet and it gets delayed until the end of The Last Way. That's the only way I can see this making sense. Also, if we say that Cosmic Fall is the final level, then why does Shadow end up with Sonic, Knuckles, Tails etc. in the true ending? He never really helped any of them except Vector, most of the time he just did his own thing. It would be a really big coincidence for them to just show up on the Black Comet together after all that. I think it would make a little more sense if Shadow & Sonic met on Final Haunt. But those are just my thoughts, great video anyways!

this is definatly the best video on the topic of what the canon path is because it perfectly fallows along with what happens in the last story

@DellStarX

26 күн бұрын

I haven't watched anyone else video(s) on the topic, but thanks for the compliment! Part of why I made this video in the first place was because I dont think there were many people who had touched this topic at the time, at least on youtube.

Any route with THE DOOM is instantly my favorite, mostly because of the ost.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

Ive actually come to really like some of the music in Shadow after doing some replaying of it recently. Gun Fortress in particular is a favorite of mine.

@adverseresolve8142

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX surprisingly a sleeper ost, really good.

@cerebralassassin2185

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX imo the ost for this game is arguably the best one with maybe sa2 being better.

this putting him on a route that's mostly good-aligned but not purely heroic makes sense to me

There is a path called "For Love's Sake" that takes into account all cutscenes into consideration. Shadow clearly states his discontent for humans. With how often people see the first cutscene, Shadow clearly says that like it or not, Shadow has to believe Black Doom. This starts him on the Evil Path, then has him change sides and become more of a hero, encounters Eggman but does not kill him, plays with all the cutscenes, and still has him do basically everything important you stated here.

I think you put more thought into this game than the actual writers. Still a great video.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, the game is designed with some openness is mind so there had to be at least one path that made sense even if it doesnt get everything.

The interesting detail is some ivents are happening no matter on what path Shadow is, such as Black Arms wiping out the mainframe or G.U.N. counter-attack on The Ark and Black Comet. Most logical ending IMO is Semi-Evil Dark, where he pledges himself to Black Doom on Black Comet stage so Shadow bringing the emeralds to him in Last Story on same location next kinda has sense, unlike the endings where he beat Black Doom

Just because Black Doom is defeated in his standard form in the Final Haunt Hero doesn't mean he can't teleport out and come back to kick off the Last Story. With that in mind, I think the closest ending is 282, Beloved Memories. *Black Doom wasn't with Shadow in Lethal Highway in this route, so he doesn't distrust Shadow after the Hero mission in Westopolis *The Team Chaotix subplot, which is in the Last Story, happens here with Charmy and Espio getting data from Prison Island and Eggman's own database, thanks to Shadow who also expresses interest in knowing about it as well. *Shadow remembers who Maria is, which might not seem like a big plot point, but the Last Story shows Shadow has more memories of Maria than when he first began.

I like to think Shadow saving Cream in Cryptic Castle is canon in some timeframe

I'm all for complex storytelling for character development, but when it comes to linear narrative itself, the structure is unorganized, it does contain several details but so little focus due to the pacing.

I consider path 131 (Ark colony of pathos) to be the cannon path. In westopolis shadow doesn’t really know who to trust yet but in the cutscene after the neutral mission blackdoom says something that interests shadow so he helps blackdoom in glyphic canyon, then shadow ends up in cryptic castle were he finds Amy who is looking for cream and cheese,the hero mission is cannon because cream mentions in expert mode that shadow rescued her which implies that he did the hero mission this is also helped by Amy helping shadow fight the egg breaker boss fight so this means that sky troops is cannon. The neutral mission is cannon because shadow would probably go confront eggman and then I agree with you from iron jungle onward. I think this is what shadow would do in the advents of this game and have some evidence to boot.

@rafagamer5915

Ай бұрын

exactly

Really nice vid, this is super thorough! The protector of the ark ending is the one that always felt right to me, so happy to see that lined up well

An interesting thing that I never realized that...kinda completely destroys my theory about The Lion's Awakening being the canon path is that Cream hints at Cryptic Castle's Hero route occurring, as she thanks Shadow for it. I assume Expert Mode (or at least the dialog) is canon due to the GUN Commamder's exchange seemingly leading into Shadow becoming a GUN Agent at the start of 06. But then you have the Past stages unless they're occurring in Shadow's head and the Black Arms soldiers still running around. Rather confusing.

@lyrimetacurl0

7 ай бұрын

So this one would be this? Westopolis neutral Glyphic canyon dark Cryptic Castle hero Sky Troops neutral Iron Jungle hero Cosmic Fall dark

@rafagamer5915

Ай бұрын

​@@lyrimetacurl0 yes. "131: ARK, Colony of pathos"

Bro you definitely deserve more subs and views with the work and research you’ve put into this nicely constructed video! Keep up the great work man! 👍👍

I feel like in this game, Shadow is using chaos control to travel back in time, because he just isn't satisfied with the outcome of these timelines... until he eventually gets tired of being stuck in the past, and decides to "Never Turn Back", which is reflected by the ending theme song. Regardless, GUN survives, the military is intact, and Eggman is even in the last cutscene... which means Shadow did not do the timeline where he killed eggman to get to that point.

@x-mighty7602

Жыл бұрын

Well, this doesn't make much sense. You can't use chaos control to travel back in time. If this was the case, then Shadow would just go to the ARK, travel back to the past, find Maria and teleport her by sending her to the present.

@x-mighty7602

Жыл бұрын

The Doom and Lost Impact are memories.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

In Sonic 06 they used chaos control to travel back in time. The emeralds are also capable of dimensional travel as seen in the Sonic Rush games. I point that out to highlight how it wouldnt make sense for them to be capable of dimension hopping but not time travel.

@rockincradilyyyy8489

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX i believe two chaos emeralds and two people to use said chaos emeralds are required for chaos control time travel

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

@@rockincradilyyyy8489 This is true. I don't believe we've ever seen time travel or dimensional travel happen with only one emerald.

Honestly i beliver what the real route in Shadow the Hedgehog is indeed what you said in the video.

@Kevin.Boyle.1981

3 ай бұрын

Two neutral missions, two dark missions, and two hero missions.

My theory: The neutral path from Westopolis can't be canon because Shadow didn't know that Black Doom could use chaos control until the last story. For the first mission it makes sense for Shadow to help Sonic, but keeps an eye out for Black Doom. it doesn't make much sense for Shadow to side with Doom right away until he has him figured out. The mission in lethal highway could do either way, though he'd likely side with Sonic. Circus Park mission makes more sense for it to be neutral due to Shadow likely not caring enough to collect rings nor would he trust Eggman. Sky Troops honestly makes the most sense for the dark route, due to Eggman being an obstacle the last level as well as all his nonsense in Heroes. Air Fleet could go the neutral or hero path, though I feel like neutral makes the most sense after Tails previously asking Shadow to collect rings of no apparent reason. Finally in Black Comet Shadow would side with Knuckles, due to GUN destruction not being his thing. The ends with Shadow saying "no-one tells me what to do" making it closest to the final end. Regarding the Chaotix... I feel like they'd get everything done without Shadow, since it's actually impossible to get a good ending for computer room ending.

I agree with mos of the points made here, except for the final choice: I _do_ think the ending that ends with Shadow despondent and believing he shouldn't exist is the canonical path, and I believe that because of the game that takes place after this one on the timeline, Sonic Battle. Battle came out before Shadow the Hedgehog, but it depicts Shadow with all of his memories back, so it has to come after this game, and it hasn't been retconned out entirely, because it not only got a sequel in Sonic Advance 3, but while it received no further attention after that (besides Chronicles, which _has_ been deleted from canon), it's in the roster of titles that ancillary media like the comics is allowed to reference. If you know anything about SEGA's policy toward adaptations that they put out in 2010 (heavily affecting the last few years of the pre-reboot Archie comics, the entirety of the Archie reboot, and now IDW), you'll know that SEGA are enormously restrictive with what material their third-party collaborators are allowed to make use of. Even canonical characters from the games are barred from making appearances in the comics, for a variety of reasons that are mostly confusing and silly. Despite all of that, Battle and Advance 3 are allowed to be used, so they're most likely still canon. With the justification for Battle's relevance covered, let's talk about why it points to the "Shadow's Second Death...?" route. Shadow's role in Battle consists of him encountering another ARK survivor, Emerl. He seems to know more about Emerl's deal than even the robot himself does, and he is not happy about it. He starts off very aggressive, and makes it clear several times that he believes Emerl needs to be destroyed, a sentiment that most of the cast either ignore or get into physical brawls with him over because it's a fighting game and we need an excuse to punch everyone every five minutes. Eventually it's revealed why he's so pissed off: Emerl was a side-project that Gerald worked on in order to try and give the military the weapon they were paying him for, and wriggle his way out of having to give Shadow to the government. This worked a little too well, and Emerl nearly destroyed the whole satellite in a berserk rampage, before Shadow was able to defeat him and quell his uncontrollable temper. In an effort to prevent this happening again, Gerald gave Emerl a "soul" based on Maria's, like he'd done with Shadow, but after that, Emerl no longer wished to be a weapon of war and wouldn't listen to anyone besides Gerald, scuppering the professor's plans. It was Shadow's fear of history repeating and Emerl destroying everything that led to his dread and belief that Emerl needed to be destroyed, but as the later events in the game show... he also believed the same was true of himself. That, for me, is what confirms the ShtH ending: Shadow's attitude toward his own existence in Battle matches pretty well with how he ends that path of his own game (not perfectly, of course, this _is_ characterisation from a game that came out two years before Shadow the Hedgehog), and the ending of his subplot in Battle, leads reasonably well into the personality Shadow would display for the rest of the pre-Pontaff era.

@rafagamer5915

Ай бұрын

but in this ending of Shadow the Hedgehog, he fights Black Doom, what contradicts Last Story

Thank You Dude!! I Needed To See This!!! I’m no longer confused on which routes are canon!! Thank you!!!

Very interesting theory. Personally I think it just makes sense to have Shadow's last level be Final Haunt. The Last Story starts with Shadow gaining the last Chaos Emerald on the Black Comet; therefore it stands to reason that Shadow was already there and defeated a boss to get said Emerald. Probably didn't fight Sonic, and Black Doom could have just been weakened, which led him to transform into Devil Doom to pay back Shadow for his initial defeat.

Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

amazing video! I was obssessed with this game and I always wondered what would be the perfect route, thanks! The only thing that doesn't match too well is the fact the last story starts in the comet as he got the emeralds, that kinda makes sense with the hero route but at the same time it's impossible to know about the androids, maybe he knew from heroes?

Excellent video man! Very well researched. Enjoyed watching this

I'm inclined to agree that this story route covers all the most important character and world events that both reconcile with the last story and can be covered in a single playthrough. Some honorable mentions in different routes come to mind that I thought contributed to varying degrees to the canonical plot: Mad Matrix for covering a bit more of Chaotix's journey to the Ark's 'computer room', Space Gadget for more formally reminding Shadow of his past with Sonic, Lost Impact for a more soothing reminder of his time with Maria [grueling enemy hunt notwithstanding], and Final Haunt for a more immersive and purpose driven trip to the Black Commet. Interestingly, arriving at The Doom from Prison Island instead of Cryptic Castle, ala route 153, seemed like the more fitting path to me simply because this version of the stage's opening cinematic was lit with a sunlight-like effect instead of Cryptic Castle's red glow. I really want more Sonic animation from Blur Studio.

I feel like this game got an E 10+ rating because the testers only went through like 5-10 paths and went "yeh this is a sonic spinoff surely it doesn't get too dark just give it an E"

Honestly, it makes sense to me. Thanks for shedding some light on this.

Some levels would logically happen even if Shadow never interfered, but some other ones require certain other missions to have been fulfilled for them to make sense. The Final Story simply references plotpoints that are contradictory to each other interms of one of the storymode-routes being canon, so the Final Story has to be its own 327th path. It's actually a pretty big point of critique among fans of the game that we simply never get to see this route beyond its conclusion. It's called the "Final Story", yet we see less than half of this story. If they didn't want it to be a spoiler for the experience in storymode, they could have simply made it so the Final story unlocks after beating every stage, instead of getting every ending. 1:50 Find the computer room! 3:03 Charmy doesn't know what a secret disk is until Shadow finds the first one tho. And unless we factor in partial mission-completions into potential canon, that means Shadow must have done the Hero mission since Charmy is alone in the stage and I doubt Black Doom or the GUN-bots told him what he is meant to collect. This brings Shadow to mad matrix, after which...he can go to iron jungle and the final stage where we need to be and that works with Eggman spinning the narrative of Shadow being an android. Huh, didn't expect it to line up this well in that regard. There are still some inconsistencies with this tho, like how this requires Shadow to do the Mad Matrix dark-mission, which makes no sense with the boss fight afterwards.(Those minibosses are always geared towards completing a certain mission in the given stage. Since it seems to take place after the Hero-mission or possibly the neutral-mission, this tells me that the dark route of the stage is moreso meant to be an alternate what-if.)

@joshuareesor1756

Жыл бұрын

Shadow's end quote for the Dark mission of Mad Matrix is, "Even if it takes everything I've got, I will get the truth from you, doctor!" so Shadow still seems to be focused on getting to the doctor instead of helping Black Doom. He just does so by directly getting Eggman's attention through destroying his cyberspace rather than rushing to the exit or combing through his databases. Espio could do his mission by himself, and once the place starts breaking down from Shadow's actions, they both try to head to the exit just as Eggman confronts them, precisely like Shadow wanted. It doesn't flow as smoothly as the Hero or Neutral missions, but "smooth" and "Shadow the Hedgehog" don't exactly go well together, so I think there's still a place to make it work.

@lpfan4491

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuareesor1756 I mean, how does the bossfight take place in the digital world if the bombs Shadow caused to explode presumably destroy it? That's what I mean.

@joshuareesor1756

Жыл бұрын

@@lpfan4491 How do you even place biological bombs in cyberspace anyway? Maybe, since they're placed on the wires connecting everything, they just cause everything to be disconnected and lose power? The place Eggman fights in seems to be the exit to Mad Matrix, so maybe it's an emergency exit that's always on and acts as a way out in case of power outages? You can destroy GUN's cyberspace but that doesn't seem to slow them down too much, so maybe Black Doom is just really bad at cyber espionage? I dunno. I feel like you have to write half the plot of the game yourself to logically connect these levels together sometimes. I hate the Dark mission of Mad Matrix anyway, so it being impossible to happen would be fine by me.

I don't think there is a clean way of fitting the True Ending in the game, but I do like the reasoning to the ending you chose. I came to a similar conclusion to you that differed in the end: In Iron Jungle, Shadow is visibly desperate for answers from Eggman, so I'd reason that he'd swing towards the Dark Path there if only to get closer to him for an answer. After that, being even more confused, he is summoned up to the Black Comet by Black Doom, leading him to the titular level. The main area where my logic differs from yours is dependent on where characters end up by location. Hence, if Shadow and The Commander are on the Ark, they can't be in the Comet and GUN Fortress without a large empty space of time in between. So Shadow must be on the Comet by the end. As for Vector, I reasoned that him reaching the Computer room could reasonably be done on his own similar to Charmy getting the Secret Discs or the Digital Circuit mainframe crashing whether or not Shadow is there. Generally, I felt like all the "levels" occurred whether or not Shadow was there. Anyway, Shadow takes the Hero path since he just wants answers at this point, being the Chaos Emeralds. As for the Eggman fight...it gets retconned. The Eggman Fight doesn't happen and instead the end of Black Comet Hero leads directly into Last Story. My rationale is that, out of every single ending, Black Comet Hero is the least conclusive and the one with the least substance. GUN Fortress Both and Black Comet Dark essentially have him join/take over the Black Arms, Lava Shelter Both has him align as an Android, Cosmic Fall Hero makes him Fatally Self Loathing, Cosmic Fall Dark is also moderately inconclusive, yet my reasoning above discounted it, and Final Haunt has him either defeat Sonic out of pride or straight up beat Doom. Black Comet Hero just has him reaffirm "No one tells me what to do"...and that is it. He implicitly says that in the rest of his endings anyway, so this one really feels like filler. Hence, if it were removed, nothing would be lost. Alternatively, Eggman is made out of some really tough stuff based on all the mechs he's blown up in, so maybe Shadow's strike just left him a bump on the head idk. So yeah, I abide Ending No 150: Answer Derived from Truth.

Honest to god, I think there’s no possible way to play the canon path. Yeah yours made a bit more sense but you would have to do proper stage jumping that’s not possible in one path in order to do a canon path. It would start neutral, go a little dark but then you’d have to find a way to jump into the true hero path. In terms of gameplay though your path makes the most sense for sure.

Wonderful video! Over the years, I've slowly tried to get all 326 alternate pathways, with now less than 100 to go! I admit Shadow the Hedgehog (video game) has its flaws, but it's one of my favorite video games!

@GideonHannsz-ht3qm

Күн бұрын

It's truly an underrated title

@TheBohobemeister

Күн бұрын

@@GideonHannsz-ht3qm Indeed; also, I did all 326 alternate pathways!

@GideonHannsz-ht3qm

Күн бұрын

@@TheBohobemeister amazing!

My guess to what it is: Stage 1) Dark Stage 2) Dark Stage 3) Hero Stage 4) Neutral Stage 5) Hero Stage 6) Dark

I've asked the same question myself years ago, and had this same outcome in mind.

Just a possibility, but the whole hero story route would be canon, except for fighting Black Doom, you’d be fighting Sonic & Diablon, simply because he doesn’t appear in other games. Plus, Black Bull is dead beyond that point, and the black tank in Lethal Highway is destroyed.

I feel like this route, but with helping Vector in Lost Impact is more canon. When you beat Black Doom, he’s still alive and destroying devil doom and the black comet probably gave Shadow a reason to keep living.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

Remember one of the conditions I laid out was that any mission you dont do in the pathway that doesnt involve warring factions is canon. So that means Vector would find the computer room without Shadow's help. Plus, Shadow being on the mental verge of offing himself feels a little too OOC for me but I like the reasoning of his comrades giving him the hope to continue fighting. Similar to the hope Rouge gave him in Sonic 06 after finding out that Omega was meant to seal Shadow away from the world.

I think Mad Matrix should also happen, but that'd mean having the Egg Breaker fight happen twice, which feels redundant.

My problem with this is; Shadow seems pretty content to become the ARK's guardian, why would he even bother bringing the Emeralds to the Black Comet? Here's my two cents. The immediate first thing that happens in the last story is Shadow announcing he finally has all the Chaos Emeralds on the Black Comet, like he'd _just_ gotten the last one. I believe if there is a canon route, it would either have to end at Black Comet or Final Haunt. The thing is, it also has to include Iron Jungle, since Eggman can reference his boss cutscene there during the Devil Doom fight, and there's no way to get to Final Haunt from Iron Jungle. Therefore the final level is Black Comet. Of course the issue then is Shadow either kills Eggman or swears loyalty to Black Doom. Here's my solution; I propose the last story happens _in place_ of the route's final boss. To be honest, none of the route bosses make sense when you think about it. As you concluded, the only one that comes close is Eggman on the ARK, but my first two points also call that into question, so I think this is the closest thing to a perfect solution we can get. Specifically the dark mission, since the hero mission would mean Knuckles is already with you. As for the rest of the route, I think it's pretty open. It's entirely possible the Chaotix did everything they need to do without Shadow's help, so I don't think Prison Island is strictly necessary. Plus you don't help Vector find the computer room in your route anyway so...

@jeremiahspark1654

8 ай бұрын

Great points there. Cosmic Fall's dark ending seems as out of character to me as the android conclusion, and dedicating the routes conclusion to the Black Comet seems more rational considering the comet's gravity in the narrative. Some of my answers and rebuttals to you: after the Cosmic Fall conclusion, Shadow may have still cared enough about Doom's information regarding his past to take the emeralds to the comet. Acting like he just found the last one on the comet during Last Story could have been the writers' que to the audience about the events they are committing to from then on. I still think Prison Island's necessary strictly because it's on the way to The Doom from neutral, and I SWEAR it has nothing to do with the nicer looking version of the cutscene!

I think the argument about the true hero route being the real route is assuming that Black Doom was either holding back in the first fight, or that he would’ve needed more time to harness the power of the emeralds. It would reasonably make sense, but that would also mean that Shadow would fight Black Bull twice, which seems like a poor plan.

Playing the game quite a bit recently I agree that this path makes the most sense since out of all the people to make Shadow go down a more heroic path it would be Maria as shown in both SA2 and the last story of this game and the flashbacks on prison island would set him down a path of revenge, overall I'd say you did a great job.

I always thought that fighting black doom at the end of the some of the endings was like a phase 1 fight. Like you defeated his base,weak form, now during the final story he’s back stronger, and you got to beat him again.

This was such a cool video!

Awesome video bro!

IMO I think All paths are canon and merge together at the end, it might be because around that time the games were told through the characters perspectives and because of Shadow struggle with his memory loss his narration is shattered in different paths, leading to lies and half truths, Is he a servant of black doom just because he has black army DNA? No. He is his own being. Does he hate humans for what they done to Maria? No. He learned there is good ones. Is he an android or a fake version of himself? No. Is he just an experiment that went deadly wrong? No. He was made with the purpose of protecting mankind. Is he evil and arrogant? No there is plenty of kindness inside of him.. Is he a protector of the ARK? Also no, ARK is not sacred and Maria would have not wished for him to spend his days there isolated. At least thats my interpretation

I've had my own theory that all of the levels could still happen. With a bit of time line jumping and rearranging. We can logically fit all but two levels into a time line that makes some type of sense. Westopolis(Dark)(2 Emeralds) -> Lethal Highway (Dark) -> Glyphic Canyon(Dark)(1 Emerald) -> Sky Troops(Dark) -> Circus Park(Neutral)(1Emerald) -> Digital Circuit(Hero)(1 Emerald) -> Mad Matrix (Neutral) -> Cryptic Castle(Hero)(1 Emerald) ->(Lost Impact & The Doom) -> Central City(Hero) -> Air Fleet (Hero) -> Prison Island(Hero) -> Iron Jungle (Hero)-> G.U.N. Fortress(Hero) -> The Ark(Hero) -> Sky Gadget (Hero) -> Cosmic Fall(Hero) -> Black Comet (Hero) -> Final Haunt (Hero) -> Last Way It is not perfect and still kinda sloppy, and is still missing two stages. But let me try and explain my self. So starting off Dark all the way up to Sky Troops. This weakens both G.U.N. and Eggman as Shadow works to try and get Doom to explain his past to him; Left to his own devices to keep finding Emeralds as Doom asked he ignores Tails and Eggman collecting an Emerald, afterwards Doom calls him into Cyberspace to deal more damage to G.U.N. and Eggman. Where he meets his friend Rouge, choosing which order to follow one order over the other and siding with his friend to get the Emerald. Meeting Rouge calls his goals into question, as when he escapes the G.U.N. Cyber Space into Eggman's, It is the first time he actively refuses Doom's request, but doesn't switch to good, Merely allows Espio to figure it out on his own. Escape Cyberspace into Cryptic Castle where meeting Amy Locks in his Hero status. Maybe put the Flash Back Levels around here as well. From there Central City is Destroyed because the Black Arms were left almost unchecked as early on in Gyphic Canyon he helped Doom Power up the Black Arms. Helping Knuckles to redeem him self for his past actions against him. He then goes on to help Tails save the president in Air Fleet. As a means of showing redemption for his actions against the reformed G.U.N. he goes to prison Island, Helping Charmy while there and then pushing forward to help G.U.N. Take down Eggman so they can focus on the Black Arms. Ending with Doom Trying to capture the last Emerald still in G.U.N. Control at G.U.N. Fortress, Since Shadow had forgone collecting the emerald to help Charmy. The last section is all about battling the Black Arms around the ARK and Black Comet. So aside from Lava Shelter and Death Ruins. I think this might be the best "Full Timeline" we can get. Alot of head cannon and duct tapped ideas. But it does flow.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

I see what you're going for, and I think that there might be some way to have a narrative that involves almost every level that makes sense, but the path I laid out imo is the most straight forward. My only issue is because of the way the final story plays out, Black Doom still trying to get Shadow to join him is really dumb if Shadow spends the second half of the game taking the aliens down. Despite that, I respect the dedication to mapping out Shadow this way. Interesting stuff!

@frostfiredirewolf8517

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX It wasn't a solo effort. Me and two other folks from Reddit did a lot of back and forth coming up with Logical head canons that could explain how each levels bounced from one to another. Like I said it isn't perfect. I couldn't fit two of the levels in, and it is a bit jury-rigged together. I liked the idea it is all canon in some regard. But we're only seeing tid bits from other time lines and the truth is somewhere in the middle. At least that is what first inspired the effort to use ALL the levels to form a "true" time line. As for the one issue with yours. Sure we have to assume, but Doom's final form isn't beaten at the end of yours.It is more than possible that the fight where he beats the lesser form of Doom was just a even further build up.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree thats the one thing about the path I laid out that isnt strong, but it was designed to focus on Shadow finding the truth over everything else going on. Its not the best considering how the game features so many characters. Now that you mention it, I saw a post on reddit that mapped out a pathway similar to your own that I found to be very interesting. www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/k0u6qv/i_fixed_the_entire_plot_and_alignment_system_from/?

Something to explain is that Black doom mentions the black arms rising again when you beat him, so I seriously doubt you actually beat him when you beat him in any of the hero endings where you beat him

Shadow in last story fully commits to putting his past behind him and not letting it define him any more. The ending where he becomes the protector of the ark wouldn’t really make sense, as it’s the biggest representation of his past. Also, it’s never explicitly seen that shadow regains his memory. The shadow here in shadow the hedgehog is the same shadow from SA2 physically yes, but in mind it is not. Shadow at the end of SA2 wanted to honor Maria’s promise of protecting earth, but in STH, he does not go back to fulfilling this promise, rather he just wants to move on from his past entirely, this means even forgoing Maria and Gerald, which is why he throws away that picture of them and says “adios” in the JP dub. (If you remember every time someone said “adios” in SA2 to shadow, it was because they believed it would be the last time they’d ever see them) so in terms of finding an actual canon path, I think it’s impossible, mainly because it feels every ending contradicts the philosophy shadow adopts in the last story.

Thanks for this. Not only was it well researched, but it was respectful of the game. Peace

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

I always try to be respectful when looking at some of these games for my theories. It allows me to gain a better understanding of them or at least understand where other people are coming from with their own ideas.

This video has made me realize that this game had a bunch of cool ideas that were never implemented at all in the lore afterwards. Like, I wonder if the whole Shadow Android thing was only really there to serve as an avenue for a potential sequel that we never got. They probably realized later on that creating a game with hundreds of endings with no true path was counter productive to that in hindsight, since a sequel to the game wouldn't really have anything solid to work with before it. Sidenote:I know alot of people who like to say that Sonic lore stopped taking itself seriously after SA2 but I really think that it was after this game where they sort of started experimenting with random stuff. But it looks like with the release of Frontiers they may be going back to taking the series seriously again.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

I think Shadow as a game was meant to tie up all the loose ends of his story up to that point. Ideas like the shadow android stuff pretty much gets put to bed, but the way its handled was incredibly flat imo. I couldnt even begin to imagine how much of a mess a direct sequel to this game would be. I would say Sonic lore takes a major backseat after Unleashed as Sonic Frontiers makes a few allusions to the lore set up in Sonic Unleashed specifically which I find to be very interesting. Once Colors came out the lore was almost non existent. The games always had a loose continuity, but an ever evolving world at least. No game post unleashed gave us any meaningful world building until Frontiers.

@utopian4769

Жыл бұрын

@@DellStarX Thx for replying and ironically, making StH a linear game probably would've benefitted it more if they wanted to tie up loose ends. They'd be able to put all their eggs in one basket without having to worry about the headache of having to fit everything into a bunch of branching narratives. I think that's why people like Shadow's story better in 06, it gives the guy a more coherent ending to his character arc, and funnily enough I think the game did a better job of telling multiple stories. Somewhat. The reason why I said this game instead of Unleashed was because Unleashed has always felt like a one off adventure to me. Like, outside of Generations(a game that banks on nostalgia pandering) and recently Frontiers, there's little to no references to the events that transpired in that game. If there's one thing I liked about Sonic Omens(a fangame) that I liked was that they had Sonic keep Chip's braclet, because it solidified that game as something worth keeping in mind. But the official series up to the point of Frontiers seemed to have forgotten all about it. Heck, Sonic Colors with the wisps is called back to more than Unleashed was. And you're right. They did seem really heavy handed with the references to Unleashed in Frontiers. I wonder if this means that Chip and Dark Gaia is gonna play a part in future installments. An executive at Sonic Team DID say they were trying to connect everything together, after all.

Fantastic video idea.

I dont think eggman is lying to Shadow when he says he is an android. On the neutral pathway, it is revealed the shadow we are following IS an android, making it a very unique revelation. In all other pathways, shadow is not an android. Simple as that

Almost Any Route in final Haunt hero seems more consistent with the last story and Sonic 06

Ive never thought about how stupid the shadow androids are until seeing this. They really are introduced just to be forgotten about immediately. Eggman never uses them for anything

Another possible path I thought was Dark Mission 1 where Shadow believes and helps Black Doom, Hero Mission 2 where he ignores BD after getting no answers to help Rouge who's his closest friend at this point, Hero Mission 3 he helps Charmy find the prision island discs that might have a more solid lead to his past, Neutral Mission 4 where he enters Eggman's computer after failing to find anything on the discs but ignores Espio and goes straight to the source, he fights and is told by Eggman he has no past because he's a robot, after beating him he gets picked up by Sonic outside of Eggman's base and they fly to the Ark, surely he must find something there, Hero Mission 5 he races Sonic to the emerald on the Ark reawakening his memories of SA2, the cutscene with the GUN commander could take place while he waits for Sonic to catch up since there's already a cutscene of Sonic spotting the black comet from the same room the commander cutscene takes place in, Dark Mission 6 Shadow has looked absolutely everywhere from every source and he's no closer to finding out who he is, the only thing he truly knows is that he's the ultimate lifeform and there's only one person who could dispute that claim so he closes off the entrance to BD to force Sonic into a 1v1 duel (the cutscene implies the Diabilon isn't there and is only present for gameplay), he reassures Sonic that he isn't betraying him and joining the black arms and proclaims himself the ultimate hedgehog after his victory before setting off to face BD alone with the 7 chaos emeralds This is path 89 "I Am Shadow" It has a smoother transition into the final story as Shadow is already in the comet with the emeralds while the rest of the crew would've boarded Sonic's ship explaining why they all show up at the end, and it coincides with him letting go of the past after learning none of it truly matters anymore as he now moves towards the future as the ultimate lifeform and the protector of the world.

@lpfan4491

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, I like this route because it's kinda funny. The last story would be less of an emotional climax to Shadow's journey and more like him having a moment of "it's all bs!" and just stopping to look for answers because he's just done looking for a hay in the needlestack.

For me, the True Path is 'Miracle of Love' Shadow starts out loyal to the only person willing to give him answers and is against the men in his flashback who killed a girl who knew was important to her. Then his encounters with Amy and the others makes him realize he's on the wrong side.

A friend of mine recommended this video after I tweeted about a question I have about this game, and since you finished every single route, I think you may have the answer I'm looking for. I'm trying to discover which route is the "true" route for EACH alternate ending (not the true ending). I want to do a run in this game doing every "true" route before actually beating the last story with the path 153. Anyway, do you know which path is the correct one for each final boss? Or the one that makes more sense idk. I think you get what I'm trying to do.

We stan the emotional growth of a 3ft hedgehog xD

This is a good route but I don’t think it’s the true path. The 2 main contradictions is that, 1) the path would need to continue into the last story, and last story starts off with shadow already inside the black comet. 2) at the end of the route you laid out shadow resigns himself to remaining on the ark as it defender much like how knuckles remains on angel island protecting the master emerald. If shadow makes that decision I don’t see how he would leave to join G.U.N. as an agent. Granted my second point could be a bit of a stretch since knuckles leaves angel island all the time so there’s no reason shadow can’t leave the ark from time to time as well. But at the end of last story him leaving his past behind felt like him leaving the ark behind along with it, but that’s just my interpretation of the game and your vid. Peace out and have a good one.

I think route 49 would actually make the most sense

WESTOPOLIS: Get the blue Chaos Emerald. GLYPHIC CANYON: Get the yellow Chaos Emerald. PRISON ISLAND: Destroy 40 GUN enemys (with Black Doom). THE DOOM: Rescue the 10 wounded researchers (with Maria). IRON JUNGLE: Destroy Eggman's blimp (with Omega). COSMIC FALL: Get the purple Chaos Emerald (with Black Doom).

There is no “true path” even the devs have, allegedly, admitted that final story is its own separate story.

I know of a video of a Brazilian channel called Planeta Sonic where he talks about the possible true route. And for it he mentions some events like: Doing the hero mission on Prison Island leads to Shadow hitting the computer before going inside it, leading to Charmy copying it on The Last Way. Eggman lying, but then telling the thruth about creating Shadow, but on the stage Mad Matrix and Iron Jungle(before the boss specifically) and following the evil missions as that leads to Shadow asking about himself to the doctor, connecting with his questioning once he saw the other androids on Prison Island. Leading to the evil mission on Iron Jungle as its the only option that ends with the next location being the Black Comet, and helping Eggman as Shadow thinks he has the answers to his past. After Iron Jungle, Black Doom says there are rats on the Black Comet, referring to the GUN soldiers and all of Shadow's companions through the levels except the Chaotix, who are decoding the data on the secret discs. Finalizing with getting the last Chaos Emerald by reaching its core. So the Last Way connects all those dots together from this route, which I found to be called "For The Sake Of The Self" as I tried following it.

@rafagamer5915

Ай бұрын

vc é BR?

Glad to see so many people are enjoying this game. I really liked playing this game as a kid, and it is still one of my favorite games of all time!!:D Ps: I am shadow Android this is Who i am! Goodbye docter

I don't get the whole "the hero mission is canon even if you do the dark mission because he has to have found the disks because they use them in the last story." Given how this is a game with branching paths, doing one thing means the other thing doesn't happen, because that's the goal of games with branching paths. With this in mind, Shadow would have to help Charmy find the disks, thus completing the hero mission and sending him to Mad Matrix. Shadow then chooses the dark mission there, because as per the established rules, he has to enter Iron Jungle. With everything said and all the restrictions in place, that narrows down the "true" path to one of the following: Westopolis (dark) -> Digital Circut (hero) -> rest of the path Westopolis (hero) -> Lethal Highway (dark) rest of the path Westopolis (neutral) -> Glphic Canyon (neutral)I don't get the whole "the hero mission is canon even if you do the dark mission because he has to have found the disks because they use them in the last story." Given how this is a game with branching paths, doing one thing means the other thing doesn't happen, because that's the goal of games with branching paths. With this in mind, Shadow would have to help Charmy find the disks, thus completing the hero mission and sending him to Mad Matrix. Shadow then chooses the dark mission there, because as per the established rules, he has to enter Iron Jungle. With everything said and all the restrictions in place, that narrows down the "true" path to one of the following: *A* Westopolis (dark) -> Digital Circuit (hero) -> rest of the path *B* Westopolis (hero) -> Lethal Highway (dark) rest of the path *C* Westopolis (neutral) -> Glphic Canyon (neutral) So any of these three are possible, therefore this is as much of a true path as you can get.

@DellStarX

Жыл бұрын

Im confused. The logic is that regardless of the game having branching pathways, there are certain events that happen in the last story that suggests that certain missions in certain stages happen no matter what. Charmy getting the disks is integral to the chaotix hacking the ark's computer in the final story. So regardless of if you do the hero mission in prison island or not, Charmy finds the disks by himself eventually. The point of the pathway I laid out is to be a linear story that sets up most, or all, of what is seen in the final story. By your logic, none of your paths would be any more or less "true" than the one I talked about. You would also say that Vector finding the computer room if you do the dark mission in cosmic fall doesnt make sense because branching pathways even tho its confirmed in the final story that he does find it. Im not sure what you're getting at.

I feel like the true ending should involve when shadow fights egg man in black doom’s base. I don’t recall him killing the egg and now he’s actually present at the place the finally story starts

knew it would be this route

Eggman and Shadow getting together again with Omega and ruling the world and rebuilding it

Bro you killed it with this video. Thanks for this awesome contribution.

You did so well man. Im subbin

watching this reminded me of the path i took axidentally, basically i was aiming for the as hero ending as possible but i kinda screwed up in the last stage before the ending and ended up back stabbing sonic qwq

The only thing missing from this path is the fact the President is seen hiding out in GUN HQ which only happens on the Pure Dark route with Black Doom using the Eclipse Cannon to blow up the White House Independence Day style but of course it being the route where Shadow has convinced himself that humanity doesn’t deserve to be saved, so it can’t be canon outside of that. Other than that, good job considering I’ve asked similar questions about which events are considered canon or not.

@hamstersandwich9917

Жыл бұрын

tbf, the presisdent hiding during an alien invasion feels like something that would happen regardless of what Shadow does.

Your a great intuitive I’m a intuitive myself my mbti personality is intp

I think this wasn't interesting exploration, but definitely a bit confusing. Could use some more kind of recap. I mean for the most part it works. When I was younger I just kind of assumed all of it was canon, or I just picked the parts I liked, I figured it didn't really matter.

Damn dude, you should have recorded footage of the route you laid out, the gameplay and cutscenes, so we could actually see what that story (route) looks like.

I want them to remake this game where edgy the hedgy just beats ALL a the levels from top to bottom! With brand new cutscenes!

I love this game...