I really enjoyed the morphed Gershwin piano piece at the end. That amount of detail is to be applauded, Dr Synth!

Two people highly regarded in the FM sector of synthesis. Manny for his insane programming abilities and knowledge and Robbie for being very much the historian of it. Wonderful presentation, gents!!!!

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

You're too kind, sir!

@nitishcheriyan4422

7 ай бұрын

You deserve it sirs!@@FailedMuso

Thank you Dr. Manny and Robbie, interesting information.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Our pleasure

@dan-star

5 ай бұрын

Interesting unopened bottle 😂😂😂

Wowzers. Theme from St Elsewhere. Yes, programmed by Gary Leuenberger, but composed by Dave Grusin. What a legend, and what a great piece of music. And a reminder of why I love that TX816 so much... ;-)

Excellent watch, well done Rob Puricelli.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Thank you 🙏 @dr. synth was the real star of the show 🙂

Great presentation 👍. I used to program a friend's DX5 back in the day and recently acquired a DX7 IID to be able to play those patches again.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

I would have loved to have brought my DX1 or DX5, but I couldn't deny the birthday girl her spot on stage 😉

It was one of the highlights of SynthfestUK 2023 for me. Brilliant seminar from Robbie & Manny, and beautifully captured by Jamie Morden. Well done guys.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Many thanks! 🙂

The recording was much nicer quality than I was anticipating! Great showcase from the both of you, this was really enjoyable.. and Manny's patches sound incredible (as expected) 😊

Thanks for an amazing seminar! Actually learned a lot The piano patch is out of this world !!!

@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx

9 ай бұрын

While I found the pure synth patches that Manny demonstrated to be superb, the attempt at an acoustic piano emulation merely showed the limits of FM in even the most skilled hands. It sounded tinny and plinky-plonky and would not compare well to even the earliest sample-based digital piano.

@jonathandaniel9031

9 ай бұрын

@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx exactly

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx I don't think the audio capture method nor KZread's audio compression is helping here. Trust me, in person, this sounds VERY authentic. Many people in the room commented as such.

@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx

9 ай бұрын

@@FailedMuso Given that KZread videos of sample-based pianos don't sound anything like as unnatural as the FM patch here, we cannot blame the medium, only the limitations of FM synthesis. FM has many uses and can sound amazing, but for emulations of acoustic instruments, we generally must look to other methods. Spitfire Audio's range of astonishingly realistic orchestral instruments, for example, does not use FM synthesis. Were it have been possible to make digital pianos using FM, there would have long been a range of such instruments, as FM requires far less computing power than does multisampling.

@iSirTaki

9 ай бұрын

YT is clearly not to blame here, you can hear immediately that the FM piano lacks a lot of a really good piano sound.

superb - definitely changed my perception of how these instruments sound

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@DrSynth

9 ай бұрын

... and I didn't even bring the best stuff 😉🤣

Wonderful. 40 years of sonic bliss. I used to have a DX7IID back in the day. So, thanks for making those sounds.

My initial introduction to digital synthesis began with the Synclavier, followed by the D50 and M1. Fast forward 40 years, and what I truly desire is AI capable of instantly generating sounds based on what it hears, utilizing advanced whatever synthesis method installed. This would allow me to swiftly tweak and manipulate the sounds thereafter. Time efficiency is now my top priority.

It was great to see you guys do this live. Such a great tribute to the topic.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Thank you 🙏

Enjoyed Synthfest immensely as always, and kudos to Rob & Manny/SOS team for this great time warp journey back to the early 80's in FM development. Shout out also to Jamie GEOSynths for capturing it all! 😎👍🎹🎶🙌🍻

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Many thanks from us both 🙏

I just bought the Yamaha TX802 and SY99. They are an amazing pair.

Fantastic demonstration of FM, good stuff!

Gary Leuenberger and I did the Demo soft for St Elmo's fire...YCAMS was beautiful. Thanks for this! Good to see you Manny! "More STUFF"

@ZTAudio

9 ай бұрын

Where is Gary these days? (He taught me FM upstairs at his SF Yamaha store ... what an amazing time.)

@DrSynth

9 ай бұрын

@kevinstrattonmusic heya, it’s been like forever! The piano patch is like 70% “stuff” 😀

That was fantastic. Remember always wanting a DX7 in my far younger years. Never got one but, if I ever got the chance of one I would get it. Such an iconic instrument.

Thanks gents. This is gonna get a ton of streams.

Nice show, thank you. On a related note, I just finished Manny’s Modulation Manifesto for the Reface DX, really great 7 lesson set of free FM synthesis tutorials, thank you for that as well Manny!

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

He's rather clever, our Manny 😉

So glad I managed to make it up there to see this live; nearly didn't happen but got there in the end! (although this video is a superb substitute to actually being there). You did the old 'gal proud and what a privilege to meet you both!!

Thank you very much! 🍀

I love FM Synths! So happy to see this. Thanks for sharing, and best wishes for continued success.

Awesome and entertaining talk with lots of interesting facts.

I remember listening to a DX7 on headphones in a shop around 1984. The timbral richness at that time really felt like a revelation.

@soundonsound

8 ай бұрын

It did indeed. I bought one around then. In the north-east UK, working men’s club bands ditched their weighty Hammond’s and Rhodes/Wurlitzers in favour of a single DX7- its revolutionary FM patches really did sound so realistic back in the 80s.

Thanks for this nice summary. 🙂

@garym8726

6 ай бұрын

@ 6’59” … the correct description of the photo is “a photo of musician Tony Banks being photo-bombed by the drummer”. Sorry, Phil😂

Saw Dave Bristow back in the day, in Herefordshire UK, demonstrating the CP70 and CS80. He used the CS80’s 2 presets, split keyboard and poly aftertouch to play guitar and banjo for “Duelling Banjos”.

I bought my QX21 sequencer new in 86'ish... up until 18 months ago I was still using it as my main sequencer and it still works (almost) perfectly. I think the QX21 was Yamaha's entry-level sequencer at the time. that said, the thing is built like a tank and still ooks almost new

In 1984 I bout a Sequential 6 tracks synth, I changed my mind and returned it for a Yamaha CX5M music computer with FM. It was a wonderful, magical musical box ...

Well done Robbie P and Dr. Manny! Wonderful seminar! Delighted I was there!

I had to chuckle at the diagram at time 11:05. Back in the late 80s, I owned a QX1, an RX11, some TX modules, and first a DX7, and a few months later (of course!) a KX88. Lived at the time in a small town in Florida devoid of musicians that knew how to play in a band... but this system allowed my wife and I to be a two-person 'band'. I would let the QX1 play back most of the song, but I would handle the main piano live.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Awesome! A perfect way to use the tech back then 🙂

@CatFish107

9 ай бұрын

Sounds fun!

This was fun to watch. I wish they had mentioned Steve Porcaro, David Paich, and James Newton Howard and their influence on these instruments.

Superb demonstration

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Many thanks! 🙏

Haha. Thanks for the nod Robbie!

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

I couldn't resist, my friend 😉

I'd love to see a model of the CS-80 and a bit of the fantastic Yamaha groovebox RM1x in a new Yamaha device.

@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx

9 ай бұрын

I think you'll need to pop over to the Behringer site for those.

The transition from real FM to virtual FM is very well done. I guess few people noticed it 😂

Superb prersentation

Dr Synth!

Love the font used in presentation.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

I spent days trying to find one that matched the Yamaha corporate font of the day! Glad someone noticed 😉

My dad had a DX-9, which I would frequently appropriate and proceed to mess with the onboard sounds. He never deviated from the stock patches but I'd, say, take the piano and tweak with no clue on what I was doing, till it sounded a little like a piano instead of a little like a Casio emulation of a guitar under a pile of pillows. My favorite thing to do, though, was creating sounds that had no resemblance to anything I ever heard.

Yes, FM synths can sound warm... if you stack 8 of them.

@CatFish107

9 ай бұрын

Stack em, give em some chorus, abuse reverb, all kinds of ways to warm it up.

@morbidmanmusic

9 ай бұрын

Distort them

@DrSynth

9 ай бұрын

You don't need 8, a DX7II does just fine by itself. I'll let you in on a secret -- most of the TX816 patches I played were enhanced DX7II sounds from my personal libraries with the main sound coming from 2-3 TF1's and the remaining modules doing synthesized reverb/spatial ambience. The AFM engine in the SY77/99 can be massively lush. Also, Google "Creating PWM Strings on Reface DX" to hear what Yamaha's little 4-Op can do...

so cool to finally see this - great job guys, and thanks for shooting it Jamie @Geosynths lots of good history Rob @failed muso - and what a stunning tech demo by Manny @Dr. Synth 🙂 I always liked FM and Phase Distortion and now I like it even more

@DrSynth

9 ай бұрын

I hope you're glad I made you pick up that bargain SY99 on your way back from NAMM 😁

@SynthAddict

9 ай бұрын

​@@DrSynth thanks for sure, even though I already had a SY77 and based on what you said about the 99 I needed to get it, and I didn't even budget for it that month 😛 I still need to fix the bad top key and hopefully someday I can buy some of your great 77/99 and DX7 patches also considering a MODX still. even wihtout AT after your demo on it (loved the live comment about oops no AT) 🙂

@Ken-W1KAL

9 ай бұрын

@Dr Synth (Manny), I love the piano patch.. is something that can be done an old MODX? Or do you need a Montage for it? BTW, thanks Robbie and Jamie for letting me see this presentation….

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

@@Ken-W1KAL I'm sure Manny will chip in but the piano patch can be done on the OG MODX and Montage, as well as the MODX+. I'm pretty certain that Montage M can do it too as the FM-X engine is the same.

Thank you for all the infos…Funny, didn‘t know that i own today half of a y-cams set 😳 2x QX1, 2x dx7, 1x TX7, 1x (okay a 1987) RX 17. Guess, i need the TX816 now 😝🤷‍♂️

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

There's still time 😉

It evokes...Oos...Arrs ...... in me, like watching a firework display as a kid. Now if I was a rich man ( hmmm isnt there a song called...? ) I would buy that immediately. As it is I'm just happy to watch and dream. 😁

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it 🙂👍🏻

I think adding filters would complete FM. Imagine if you could insert filters after each mod/carrier ! That would smooth out and make the sounds infinitely programmable, thus it could sound like anything. I think using FPGA's to fulfill this complex routing... well it sounds perfectly do-able in my head. Back when I owned FM7 I would do a similar thing in my daw. I would use a dozen or so tracks each with a simple FM7 2 or 4 mod patch + vst filter to make better sounds. Sure it took nearly a whole project to make a sound but it got the job done nicely. I remember wanting an MSEG type filter that could be inserted IN BETWEEN & part of the FM. Pretty sure nowadays u can do this in surgeXT, but a hardware version would be the ultimate. (Also, surge is simple FM)

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

KORG’s opsix FM synth has filters, including the MS-20 filter. It’s available as hardware and as a plugin. Might be worth checking out?

@DrSynth

9 ай бұрын

You don't really need filtering like that if you have control of phase offset, multiple routable feedback(s), non-sine waveforms & waveshaping; meaning AFM in the SY77/99. The sinful omission in the OpSix implmentation is lack of phase offsets; that said, the hybrid FM/Modeling you can do with OpSix using allpass filter(s) patched within a feedback loop is somewhat similar to what the Nonlinear Labs C15 does.

@savagedregime8176

9 ай бұрын

You can route any operators in the FM7/8 matrix through a filter (the Z operator) and then have that filtered signal act as a modulator. That's just 1 global filter though, so having filters on a per-op basis seems like the next logical step. Not that I expect FM9 to ever come out at this point.

@psionic111

9 ай бұрын

There are existing hardware versions of what you're describing. As Dr Synth mentioned, there are Yamaha's 90s SY synths. There's Kurzweil's new FM engine with VAST (modular synth parts) As mentioned, Korg's Opsix has filters per operators Hydrasynth has dual filters, but isn't as routable between operators as you'd like. I still consider the king of hardware FM to be in Korg's camp. MOD-7 is the modular(!) FM, waveshaper, and PCM synth found in the 2005 Oasys, 2011 Kronos, and 2021 Nautilus. It's more synth than even the software FM rivals like Bazille, F'em, and Surge/Serum/what have you. Here's a partial list of MOD7 features: - 6 op FM, can import DX7 .syx patches - feedback per FM operator (if using sine as a waveform) - a 7th PCM (4 velocity layered multisample) operator - an 8th noise oscillator with saturation and 1pole LPF - a 9th audio input oscillator - two instances of MOD7 per program (18 "operators" total) - 16 programs in a multi-timbral combi arrangement It's strongest suit is that, like Bazille, it's modular, and doesn't have to use algorithms. This includes freely routing filters and waveshapers in between operators - 2 filters per instance, 2 instances of MOD7 per program - one of those filters is a dual stage multimode filter (LP, HP, BP, all pass, each with polarity) - MSEG envelopes - operator waveform choices: sin, tri, saw, squ, waveshaper, ringmod - phase offset, fixed phase, free running phase, key synced phase - PCM operator taps thousands of legacy synth multisamples (Moog, PPG, Oberheim, etc) - PCM operator can also play your custom built samples, including wavesequences - waveshaper synth is based of the Wavestation, but with double the waveshaper tables - waveshaper operators are also freely routable - waveshaper use cases: saturation, HPF, inverter, TX waveforms, pickups, comb, resonance I could go on about its FUN-like modulation possibilities, its numerours LFOs and step sequencers, its super intelligent ARP and MIDI router (KARMA), its multiple MIDI controllers and performable FX, but you get the idea. MOD7 really is still the ONE to beat...

this was incredible

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Thanks! 🙂🙏

@playeveryday01

9 ай бұрын

@@FailedMuso probably would have fainted meeting you legends in person. 🤣

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

@@playeveryday01😆 Oh behave!

Very nice. It would have also been good to see the Yamaha designers/engineers behind these great products...they seem so reclusive (Japanese culture perhaps?)

Might perhaps have been nice to mention the Synclavier in the history section. Of course it's not Yamaha or exactly the same, but it's still a part of the FM synthesis story.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Only so much we could fit into 45 minutes and as you say, it's more of a sideline to the Yamaha side of the story 🙂

Does anyone know if Dr. Manny Fernandez has shared any of the patches from his demo anywhere. I was really blown away by his "analog" emulation and would love to see how he did it.

@simonsays335

9 ай бұрын

That is a very good question, can anyone help out / in contact with the great man himself?

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

@@simonsays335 Google is your friend 😉 YT won't allow me to post links but if you simply type Manny's name into Google along with FM-X you should find what you're looking for.

Give it up for Manny around 19:51

Loved the presentation, but PLEASE next time leave the slides up for a few seconds more!

Great presentation, but why is no one smiling or enjoying themselves during those awesome sounds??

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

There were plenty of happy faces throughout. I guess the cameraman had to point his lens at us, mostly 😉 As for myself and Manny, we were just concentrating and hoping the gear behaved itself! 🙂

@jimbotron70

9 ай бұрын

Reverence from a young audience maybe?

@tonystevenson26

9 ай бұрын

They were in a hypnotic state. And wondering how they can get their hands on some sweet fm gear.

Great presentation! I didn't realize that I had a Y-Cams system - I currently have a DX7, TX816, QX1 and RX11. I also recently picked up a DMP7, although it is in non working condition. What I don't have is the Y-Cams floppies. Anyone know where I can find those?

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, the Y-CAMS demo disks are as rare as hens teeth. I’ve only ever seen the pack that I was loaned, despite my lengthy investigations. There were also demo disks that came with the TX816 with voices for it and patterns for the QX1. I’ve only ever seen photos of these and would love to find a set. And thank you for your kind words. Delighted that you enjoyed the show 🙂🙏🏻

Yay for "this guy"!

@CatFish107

9 ай бұрын

Probably just the edit, or camera not started, but there didn't seem to be an introduction of the presenters. Excellent talk regardless.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

@@CatFish107 There was indeed a proper introduction that doesn't seem to have made the cut.

Wasn't the DMP7 part of Y-CAMS as well? My, that's quite a rabbit hole to jump into.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Y-CAMS wasn't really very well defined but from my research, it was simply the QX1, TX816, RX11 (or 15) and either a DX7 or KX88. The DMP7 launched in '87 and was part of that second wave of DX/TX/QX line. I suppose a DX7-II, TX802, QX3 and RX5 would have been Y-CAMS Mk.II? The TX802 lacked the polyphony of the 816. It may have been 8 part multitimbral, but it was only 16 note polyphonic, with each part eating into that polyphony. But yes, it's a long and deep rabbit hole to go down. Rewarding, though 😉

There is a demonstration of formant-like synthesis on the MODX. FYI: the demo does not sound like FS1R formants at all. FMX (as found on the MODX and Montage) is clearly based on the FS1R's engine. They both have these wave types per operator: Sine, All1, All2, Odd1, Odd2, Res1, and Res2. "All" and "Odd" just add some extra harmonics. Res adds some more interesting frequencies and extra control over the sound of each operator. It can sound a bit like a resonant filter over a sawtooth (without any actual filters). However, the FS1R has 2 additional types: Formant and Noise that are fundamentally different, which is probably why they were not added to FMX. Formant is the closest to Res1 and Res2. But formant is more complex. It's not symmetrical like the other waveforms, and there's more control over the sound. And unlike the other types, this is not one wave per operator, but multiple that play at the same frequency at different phases. Besides the 8 voiced operators, the FS1R has 8 unvoiced operators for each note. Unvoiced operators are specifically for noise shaping. These operators have the exact same controls as voiced operators (EG, key scaling, etc), but their output is not routed via an FM algorithm. They're just played in parallel next to the 8 voiced FM operators. And you can shape and filter the noise in creative ways. For speech, the noise lets you generate sounds like S, T, P, B, K. But you can also use it to generate drum sounds like hi-hats or a part of a snare drum. Or add wind or breathiness to sounds.

19:34 Real FM start 23:57 HOW FM? 29:24 FM Demo 37:18 No AMW2, FM piano sound

How is the simulated reverb achieved? I've stumbled upon it a couple of times while working with high pitched heavily modulated routings before

@morbidmanmusic

9 ай бұрын

He was using multiple DXs, and some of the sounds we purely designed to sound like the sustained reverb portions. And because you have some much control, rather than one sound, you can really deep dive in to recreating the verb.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Yup, the beauty of stacking 8 TF1 units in a TX816 🙂

I don't like effects built into a synth, that is why we have effect pedals past the synth. I have a DX7 and the only mandatory effect I use for it is an Arion Stereo Chorus for a more live sound. I also have chrome 1970's vintage Morely pedals: Phaser, Distortion/Wah, Power/Wah, Compressor, and Boost/Volume. I used them more for my Fender Precision Special Bass. I use two Wahs as static "tunable" filters to get a very muddy bass sound and sub harmonics that can rattle your bones... you "feel" the notes more than you hear them.

I thought Don Buchla did FM before DR John Chowning? :)

I think they forgot to talk about the DX1

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

We didn't "forget", hence the t-shirt 😉. We were just limited for time and decided to concentrate and two specific areas 🙂

@simonsays335

9 ай бұрын

I asked about it in the Q&A at the end (and other models) if they can read this, please upload it, some great questions were asked :)

Where can I have my QX 1 serviced. I’m in London.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

Kent Spong is in Epsom, or Synthprof in Suffolk. Both these guys could help, I’m sure.

Good presentation. But with a Bat man dark mood. Lighting could have been better. Regards.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

It's all the black and brown gear on stage. We lurk in the shadows 😉

Doctor, please help me. I've owned numerous FM synths over the years, and I have a MODX. Yet I still much prefer analogue synths and I hear FM as thin and uninteresting. What is wrong with me? Am I a freak? Can I be cured?

@DrSynth

9 ай бұрын

This is a very common reaction, take 2 Operators and call me in the morning…

@DrSynth

9 ай бұрын

BTW -- I have a number of FM patch breakdowns & examples on my channel. Please check them out if you haven't already. The one for "Supermassive" you may find interesting along with the one showing PWM Strings on the RefaceDx

Full stop. There is a Manny bank for the 816??

@FailedMuso

8 ай бұрын

There might be... 😉

@12opsynths

8 ай бұрын

@@FailedMuso MUST DEMO

everything is nice fm dx7, I say if there was fm from dx11 it would be perfect, I think that Yamaha would be bought a lot more if only it had that possibility and if it had portamento as before, that's what the new Yamaha lacks. greetings good people

@soundonsound

8 ай бұрын

Fair enough!

Very clever… I did however glaze over by 20 mins in

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

And that's the beauty of KZread. You can take your afternoon nap and come back to where you left off 😉

That is weird, I just got a "community guidelines strike" for talking about Dexed, Yamaha YC61, Volca FM2, and Synplant2. And comment was deleted. Somebody is pretty sensitive.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

That's odd and not good. Sorry to hear that 😞

@TheScreamingFrog916

9 ай бұрын

@@FailedMuso what’s frustrating is, after reviewing the KZread community guidelines, I’m sure I did not violate them. Not to concerned though, after being on KZread since the beginning, and posting thousands of comments, this is my first strike. I suspect someone objected, that I posted a link to the Synplant2 website. Not spam, or a website with bad content, just an interesting app using machine learning, to make two operator FM patches, to sound like a sample you provide.

PM Synthesis

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

We. Know. 😉

I am so distracted by the presenter not opening the water bottle. I can’t concentrate on the subject matter because of that!

@FailedMuso

8 ай бұрын

I'm just opening water bottles like a Pound Shop Rudy Giuliani 😆

I like the video but actually never liked the sound of the DX7, a friend had one and I always found it sounded like a toy. But okay music has to be played so toys are needed.

@unclemick-synths

9 ай бұрын

It's those tinkly factory patches. I really hated them but by programming a friend's DX5 I learnt 6-op FM can create wonderfully fat sounds. Even 4-op can get pretty heavy (sadly I could only afford a DX27).

@80ssynthfan48

9 ай бұрын

The DX11 sounds nicer to me, has a little more than just FM apparently, and also apparently not as hard to programme.

@matthewgaines10

9 ай бұрын

Not everything is for everybody. One man’s treasure is another’s trash. The important thing to remember is: 1) Don’t waste your time listening to presentations on things that aren’t for you. 2) Don’t be liberal with your opinions on FM synthesis on a presentation on FM synthesis. Most don’t care about your opinions and think it’s peculiar that you would come here to share your views. The last thing I do is seek out videos on things I don’t like just to say I don’t like them.

@FailedMuso

9 ай бұрын

@@80ssynthfan48 The DX11/TX81Z might have had two fewer operators, but each of its four operators had 8 different waveforms, not just a single sine wave. Those waveforms made the DX11/TX81Z a formidable synth 🙂

I dont know why, but I hate FM generated sounds

Yamaha's biggest mistake back then was the stupidest programming and missing live controls. Still today.... Menu undr menu side menu sub menu rotary menu shift menu menu menu menu! 🎉